cosyr wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

President just announced no flight from Europe for 30 days, England excepted.

President, as in Kirby? Is this announced somewhere? I can't find it on United's website.

hereandthere41 wrote:

Okcflyer wrote:

VC10er wrote:

I could probably guess why United felt the need for a sizable fleet of LARGE high density aircraft, and AA and DL did not. But, I would be guessing! And it’s not as if United needed 4 or 6 of them, I believe it’s “19” of them?
And while the “First Class” lie flat is a quite old version of lie flats, no storage and tight, depending on the trip length...it’s FAR better than an upright chair. (Oddly, in bed mode I find them to be quite comfortable) and I’m happy to get one after a long hard day, even if it’s only ORD to EWR.

So, does anyone know how the idea for them came to be? Was it born out of necessity or them being odd ducks vs other 772’s?

Why wouldn’t AA or DL want something similar between hubs? Is it that their route systems don’t need them? Or, they didn’t have the capacity in their fleets?

Short, bullet-version:

-UA is the only USA carrier with 772 models (not ER’s), the earliest range-limited models.
-UA since the very beginning, UA has ran these in HD/Hawaii configs from west coast, which is an area they’re strong, especially SFO.
-UA was in the worst-position mainline fleet wise several years ago. Converting internationally configured birds from short haul East-Coast to West Europe routes to the current HD format was the quickest way to boost the domestic mainline fleet. New aircraft deliveries would take years to build.

If working from a clean sheet of paper, It’s not a winning strategy and it won’t last forever.

In UA’s case, the only other reasonable option for these would be scrapping. Going the HD route provides better outcomes than the alternative. And so here we are.

Reality is, two 739’s burn almost the same amount of fuel as a single 772. The 772 carries almost the same number of pax. (28 lay flat vs 40 domestic first being the biggest difference.

For yield and flexibility, the 2 739’s is a far better solution.

Widebodies are heavy. Heavier per pax than NB’s. They’re generally less rugged for heavy cycle counts (domestic use) and all in maintenance costs are more than what 2 NB run. (My opinion, I don’t have figures to back this statement)

So the advantage of the HD format is with slot limitations, cargo if valuable, and the fact the 777HD’s can stretch to 8-9 hours range vs 6 of current NB’s.

Reality is, if this downturn is prolonged, this fleet will shrink hella fast. It’s more less optimistic utilization of existing assets when the domestic NB fleet is already too small driving the need.

With the 4 ER’s being added, there will help on Hawaii flying from East Coast where currently utilization of international config is suboptimal.

Slight correction: The 'A' market 777s were NOT used for HI routes from the beginning. They launched on June 7, 1995 from LHR. They were flying between IAD/ORD/MIA and Europe/South America on mostly 8-9 hour missions. Before UA had HD777s, they had HD767s in Hawaii. How do I know? I was there for all of it, including the LHR launch.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

Would think LHR service could be busy. Maybe UA will move larger aircraft to LHR.
Question on LHR traffic that originated in Europe, is that banned or subject to quarantine?

Parking aircraft options.
Leave some in Europe.
EWR could close gates 112 around to 126 and use gates and ramp for storage. Ballpark. Can pack them in if placed forward and backwards.
IAD looks like a large hardstand south of gates. Maybe part of the southern portion of the south satellite concourse could be closed and aircraft parked on gates and behind aircraft. Would require aircraft to enter leave active gates from only one side.
CLE. surround the closed commuter terminal.
IAH. Close gates C30-C37 and park on gates and ramp.
LAX, lots of concrete there.
VCV, GYR.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

Would think LHR service could be busy. Maybe UA will move larger aircraft to LHR.
Question on LHR traffic that originated in Europe, is that banned or subject to quarantine?

Parking aircraft options.
Leave some in Europe.
EWR could close gates 112 around to 126 and use gates and ramp for storage. Ballpark. Can pack them in if placed forward and backwards.
IAD looks like a large hardstand south of gates. Maybe part of the southern portion of the south satellite concourse could be closed and aircraft parked on gates and behind aircraft. Would require aircraft to enter leave active gates from only one side.
CLE. surround the closed commuter terminal.
IAH. Close gates C30-C37 and park on gates and ramp.
LAX, lots of concrete there.
VCV, GYR.

1989worstyear wrote:

I would hope that parking fees are being waived or reduced for UA and others going through this awful year. Could the Feds help?

ericm2031 wrote:

To clarify about UA not taking any deliveries, it is only for aircraft they are unable to obtain financing for, which they said they aircraft financing is still doing really well...they just obtained financing for a 787 last week.
.

LGeneReese wrote:

I’m wondering how many aircraft in the delivery schedule have been financed?
N2352U, the last 77W, has been sitting at PAE, RfD for awhile now. N29978, a 789, is almost ready at CHS. Both I presume have the $ sorted and will deliver. However, N13013, 78J, is almost ready to roll off the FAL and N24979 is just starting FA plus the eight 789s to follow are not yet

Today President Donald J. Trump signed a Presidential Proclamation, which suspends the entry of most foreign nationals who have been in certain European countries at any point during the 14 days prior to their scheduled arrival to the United States. These countries, known as the Schengen Area, include: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. This does not apply to legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation.

jayunited wrote:

LGeneReese wrote:

I’m wondering how many aircraft in the delivery schedule have been financed?
N2352U, the last 77W, has been sitting at PAE, RfD for awhile now. N29978, a 789, is almost ready at CHS. Both I presume have the $ sorted and will deliver. However, N13013, 78J, is almost ready to roll off the FAL and N24979 is just starting FA plus the eight 789s to follow are not yet

Kirby covered this in the town hall (I'm not sure if you have access to see it) but during the town hall even with Kirbys doomsday scenario which now may become reality he did state UA is still taking delivery of all remaining widebodies, for some the check has already been written, others the financing has been secured and was secured long before COVID-19.

Again most most expect the fallout from COVID-19 to last around 12-18 months, Kirby stated if we were looking a long term fallout (3-5 years) then UA would enact another plan (good to know they already have another plan) but by all accounts most people expect the economy and the industry to recover from this within 12-18 months.

LGeneReese wrote:

I’ve seen the extremely short snippet on Flying Together.... if there’s a full length vid I don’t know if I have access to it. My question was based on replies #978 and 996 above which suggested UA putting some new deliveries on hold for awhile... Thank You for the clarification on the matter.

ryanflyer wrote:

Just got a notification that there’s a United 757 headed to Tupelo tomorrow. They’ve only received the Legacy United birds that are in the C28Y144 config. Anyone know the tail?

ryanflyer wrote:

Just got a notification that there’s a United 757 headed to Tupelo tomorrow. They’ve only received the Legacy United birds that are in the C28Y144 config. Anyone know the tail?

mmahpeel wrote:

The full town hall is now up on flyingtogether.

UNDTanner wrote:

Hello,

I am arriving in Zurich from Muscat, Oman on March 14th. Planned to leave for U.S. on March 15th on United Airlines. I am a U.S. citizen. Is United going to cancel all flights to Zurich after 13th to U.S. I can't find info on their website after announcement. I read U.S. citizens can still travel back to U.S., but I am wondering if airlines will still fly from Continental Europe. Should I try to book a one way from Zurich to London and then get a ticket out of London or fly to Canada out of Zurich.

Thanks for the help or advice!! I have tried calling UA and no one will answer after hours and messaged on Facebook with no response. Just looking for advice if I should wait until the 15th in Zurich or get myself a one way ticket to LHR.

It is my first time on site so I apologize if this is in the wrong place.

jayunited wrote:

tphuang wrote:

At times like this, UA's actions will be very prudent. Keep in mind, I do believe that UA is hurting from this more than AA due to the fact that UA's strength Asia and continental Europe are the most effected spots. That's also why strong leadership is needed at this time. And I think UA employees have a lot to thank for with Kirby in charge.

I've been with UA since 1996 and I have to admit yesterday I was very impressed with Kirby. He was prepared to answer Wall Streets questions and he also came prepared to answer the economical questions asked at yesterday's town hall.

Having worked for UA through the bankruptcy years, SARS, and the 2008-2009 recession I've become accustom to UA executives being unprepared for events like this. As a result they can't answer any of Wall Streets questions and they basically avoid explaining anything to employees resulting in UA getting caught in a downward spiral and we are always the last to recover.

Listening to what Kirby stated yesterday although UA could have never predicted this event it is nice to know UA is prepared, and we have a great financial team in place here. Also he made it clear UA isn't just standing by we are actively taking steps within the financial side of the business making sure UA remains on sound financial footing through this crisis.

As an employee it is kind of surreal seeing this because we are not use to having this type of leadership here at UA. Even when I talk to employees who have 30, 40, even 50 years they all seem hopeful that history will not repeat itself here at UA because we finally have a leadership team that first and foremost cares about United Airlines and secondly they seem to know what they are doing.

777-500er wrote:

How will IAH-LHR-IAH operate if IAH is not a designated port of entry?

jayunited wrote:

777-500er wrote:

How will IAH-LHR-IAH operate if IAH is not a designated port of entry?

Up until a few hours ago the UK was not on the travel ban list which is why LHR flights still operated even today. However starting Monday the UK will be on the list which means IAH-LHR-IAH flights will be suspended.

TrafficCop wrote:

Just a thought.

I wonder with travel to L:HR soon to be restricted what is the chance UA will run the 767 HJ on trans-cons from EWR and IAD?

TrafficCop wrote:

Just a thought.

I wonder with travel to L:HR soon to be restricted what is the chance UA will run the 767 HJ on trans-cons from EWR and IAD?

calpsafltskeds wrote:

319:
N835UA re-entered servic 3/9/20 after storage/HMV/12F mod at GYR

738:
N38417 entered VCV 2761/10Mar for EvoBlu livery, 1st 739 to receive

752:
N14115 entered GYR 2756/9Mar, storage, maint?
N13138 entered GYR 2761/5Mar, storage, maint?

763:
N644UA entered MCO 2751/10Mar

772:
N77019 exited AMA 2725/10Mar in EvoBlu livery

jayunited wrote:

LGeneReese wrote:

I’m wondering how many aircraft in the delivery schedule have been financed?
N2352U, the last 77W, has been sitting at PAE, RfD for awhile now. N29978, a 789, is almost ready at CHS. Both I presume have the $ sorted and will deliver. However, N13013, 78J, is almost ready to roll off the FAL and N24979 is just starting FA plus the eight 789s to follow are not yet

Kirby covered this in the town hall (I'm not sure if you have access to see it) but during the town hall even with Kirbys doomsday scenario which now may become reality he did state UA is still taking delivery of all remaining widebodies, for some the check has already been written, others the financing has been secured and was secured long before COVID-19.

jayunited wrote:

777-500er wrote:

How will IAH-LHR-IAH operate if IAH is not a designated port of entry?

Up until a few hours ago the UK was not on the travel ban list which is why LHR flights still operated even today. However starting Monday the UK will be on the list which means IAH-LHR-IAH flights will be suspended.

777-500er wrote:

jayunited wrote:

777-500er wrote:

How will IAH-LHR-IAH operate if IAH is not a designated port of entry?

Up until a few hours ago the UK was not on the travel ban list which is why LHR flights still operated even today. However starting Monday the UK will be on the list which means IAH-LHR-IAH flights will be suspended.

So technically someone (US Citizen) who has been in Europe can get around the port of entry “scan” if they fly through say Toronto and then arrive in Denver?

UA444 wrote:

But I still believe that the BK could’ve either been avoided or at least delayed if not for 9/11 and the downturn that ensued. Either giving them more time in order to right the ship without the BK or some sort of wake up call that something needed to be done and fast. Perhaps some of the hardships the front line employees had to endure don’t happen or are lessened in this timeline.

https://youtu.be/V2GWidUjvRY

Tilton at 16 minutes basically describes how they aspired to be the “high cost carrier” prior to 9/11 and the BK.

VC10er wrote:

As I grapple with these brand architecture issues almost everyday, and developing nomenclature and information hierarchy that consumers will understand. I realize some of this is due to some of the historical ways people DO understand. YES, it is a bit strange that United no longer has a TRUE FIRST cabin on international flights, yet domestic 737’s & A320/19’s do have “FIRST CLASS”.
United has 2 target audiences (3 if you count their internal audience)
But externally, the 2 are:
1: Their enormous FF base who are very familiar with all-things United
2: The very large group that are NOT truly aware of the differences, be that a 752 & 753 or a WB that currently could be a “Polaris” seat, a Diamond seat or the old ITPE lie flat found on many High Density 772’s.
(Even folks who fly UA often because they live in SF) One recently called me after flying a 777 from SF to ORD. I believe he was on a HD 772, but he seriously thought “THAT” was “Polaris” and asked how I could actually like Polaris if was one of those old “no storage, tight squeeze” lie flats, and he had purchased “First Class”. I tried explaining everything to him. His ultimate reply “this is why I use my MP miles to fly internationally on another Star Alliance airline!” He’s Premier Platinum because he flies SFO/RDU RT 2x a month. I believe the day he actually flies Polaris on a 77W, he will be pleasantly surprised.
United owns one of the worst words in all consumer marketing: “Plus” (if/when the world changes again and moves back to having a TRUE INTERNATIONAL FIRST CLASS, what will UA do? Will a new much bigger seat and service be called “Global First” then “Polaris Business” or would global First be called “Polaris Plus?”

One day (about a year or two) there will only be 3 lie flat seat variants: New Polaris, A321XLR Polaris and domestic HD 772’s. When that day comes I think the cabins should be named after seat type:
Polaris International
Polaris NB (A321XLR & 737-10)
Polaris Domestic (for flights when Polaris International or Polaris NB’s) are used on domestic route.
Domestic Bed (HD 772’s)
Domestic Lounger

I HATE the name “Premium Economy” for the international purple seats. They are NOT “Economy” seats in any way! I think they would sound far more desirable if they were called:
“Premium Lounger” or even
“Purple Lounger”

“Economy” nomenclature is perfectly fine, as is they are very easy to understand:
“Economy Plus”
“Economy”
“Basic Economy”

I don’t believe many people check or understand the seat maps when buying tickets on line. The yellow corn kernels for Diamond seats vs the more complex looking Polaris seat maps- not unless you are a serious UA heavy user.

codc10 wrote:

The job isn't too big for Kirby. People can justifiably criticize his propensity to cut perks and benefits, but his airline management acumen is as good as anyone in the business. Quite a far cry from some of United's management teams over the past few...decades.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

319:
N811UA entered LCQ 2747/14Mar, expect 12F mod completion

739:
N38417 has only been in VCV 4 days - Being first 739, I'd expect close to 10 days to complete.

FSDan wrote:

Seems like everything is more or less "full steam ahead" with regard to mods and repainting so far? I wonder if that will change soon... Delta announced they were suspending mods (which IIRC is mostly just the 764 fleet at the time being) while parking a ton of widebodies.

I also hope the new high-J 763 configuration and the CR5s are still viable in whatever economy emerges from this pandemic. What looked like a great decision to add a bunch more premium seats not very long ago is now looking like potentially poor timing.