United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

ordbosewr · Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:58 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
More stored aircraft.
All 764s appear are parked or stored. 9 in ROW.
Many 763s in IAH, plus 4 in ROW storage
10 772s in ROW storage
9 of 10 752PWs in ROW storage. N596UA been in SFO since 3/21
Parking locations: SFO, ORD, DEN, IAH, IAD, EWR, MCO, GUM, HNL, MSY, MIA, TPA, SAT, CLE, AUS, BOX, FLL, LAS, LGA, PDX
Storage/maint: ROW, GYR, INT, DLH, LCQ, ILN, HKG, XMN, VCV

Looking through the pilot pairings there are ZERO scheduled 764 flights in The month of April.

It seems like that could be to simplify the scheduling and crews, but for a person that does not work in the industry that what it seems.
If that is the case, wouldn't they just ground all the 767's? maybe they have?!?!?

CriticalPoint · Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:07 pm

ordbosewr wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
More stored aircraft.
All 764s appear are parked or stored. 9 in ROW.
Many 763s in IAH, plus 4 in ROW storage
10 772s in ROW storage
9 of 10 752PWs in ROW storage. N596UA been in SFO since 3/21
Parking locations: SFO, ORD, DEN, IAH, IAD, EWR, MCO, GUM, HNL, MSY, MIA, TPA, SAT, CLE, AUS, BOX, FLL, LAS, LGA, PDX
Storage/maint: ROW, GYR, INT, DLH, LCQ, ILN, HKG, XMN, VCV

Looking through the pilot pairings there are ZERO scheduled 764 flights in The month of April.

It seems like that could be to simplify the scheduling and crews, but for a person that does not work in the industry that what it seems.
If that is the case, wouldn't they just ground all the 767's? maybe they have?!?!?

All 767’s and 757’s are flown by the same crews

77H · Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:22 am

Amwest2United wrote:
77H wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
Jay, that makes perfect sense. The 767 floor issues and lack of taking normal pallets or LD3s width-wise is the problem. However, if using narrower LD2 containers (25% less space than an LD3), the 767 can pair those units for decent cubic footage, but isn't standard for many shippers.
For what it takes, here's the volume of total LD2 and LD3 spaces on below aircraft. Does not include bulk bins or floor weight issues:
763 30 LD2s 3,720 CF
788 28 LD3s 4,452 CF
764 38 LD2s 4,712 CF
772 32 LD3s 5,088 CF
789 36 LD3s 5,724 CF
78X 40 LD3s 5,360 CF
77W 44 LD3s 6,996 CF

At the risk of sounding pedantic, about ~18 or so of the PW 77E’s only have 28 positions. The 77U subfleet according to your UA Fleet page.

Excellent work on that by the way.

77H

Lower Bunk Crew Rest takes up the additional positions

Correct. And can cause real headaches for Cargo Sales and Ops departments as the 28 position 77E’s tend to show up on routes at random. At least in my experience.

77H

jayunited · Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:08 am

77H wrote:
Correct. And can cause real headaches for Cargo Sales and Ops departments as the 28 position 77E’s tend to show up on routes at random. At least in my experience.
77H

You are correct however for cargo charter flights 77Es are not being used. There are still some 77Es in service flying regularly scheduled routes but for our cargo charters.

For our cargo charters UA is utilizing the most efficient aircraft in our fleet for those operations. I'm not just talking about fuel burn efficient, to maximize revenue potential on each of these flights UA needs to use aircraft that maximize space. The 77E even without the lower crew rest area has a lot of dead unusable space, even with 10 PMC's in the hold. Which is why we are seeing more 789s doing cargo charters and no 77Es. A 789 with 11 PMC's utilizes every inch of the containerized sections in the cargo compartment both forward and aft as does the 78X with 13 PMC's on board.

The 77W is just a beast of an aircraft in terms of what can be carried on 14 PMC's, last week UA operated a cargo charter on a 77W with over 100,000 pounds of cargo in the belly of the beast.

calpsafltskeds · Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:57 pm

752:
All 11 752PW units are now stored in ROW, I doubt they will return to service even though 7 have new WiFi.

763:
N673UA exited HKG 2797/30Mar with High J Polaris/PP

77W:
N2846U entered HKG maint 2775/30Mar

789:
N27957 sked to exit VCV 2743/30Mar in EvoBlu livery
N29961 sked to enter VCV 2742/30Mar for EvoBlu livery

Mod lines at HKG have been reduced from 7 to 5: was 6 Polaris /1 Domestic, now 5 Polaris/0 Domestic
Mod lines at XMN have been reduced from 5 to 3: was 3 772 Polaris, 2 787 Polaris, now 1 772 and 2 787s
763 Polaris line is not taking new units.
772 Polaris line: 772PW/complete, 772GE/1 to enter at some point,
787 Polaris line: no new units sent since Virus spread.
772ER Domestic program appears to be at least delayed

ordbosewr · Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:09 pm

jayunited wrote:
The 77W is just a beast of an aircraft in terms of what can be carried on 14 PMC's, last week UA operated a cargo charter on a 77W with over 100,000 pounds of cargo in the belly of the beast.

Was this a UA record?

kd9gy · Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:37 pm

Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

United1 · Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:45 pm

kd9gy wrote:
Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

It's a 78P actually (787-9 with Polaris) and it's still at ORD. Last I saw on here Boeing was going to have to do some work on the plane. I'm not sure there is that much of a rush right now.

jayunited · Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:55 pm

kd9gy wrote:
Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

Last I heard UA had contract with Boeing to have them come to ORD and do the work required to fix this aircraft.

ordbosewr wrote:
Was this a UA record?

To be honest I don't know if it was a record I would have to check, but it is till impressive what a 77W can carry.

jetmatt777 · Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:08 pm

kd9gy wrote:
Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

There's another 787 out of service in DEN. mechanics pushed an airbus out of the hangar and hit a 787 the other day.

77H · Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:12 pm

jayunited wrote:
77H wrote:
Correct. And can cause real headaches for Cargo Sales and Ops departments as the 28 position 77E’s tend to show up on routes at random. At least in my experience.
77H

You are correct however for cargo charter flights 77Es are not being used. There are still some 77Es in service flying regularly scheduled routes but for our cargo charters.

For our cargo charters UA is utilizing the most efficient aircraft in our fleet for those operations. I'm not just talking about fuel burn efficient, to maximize revenue potential on each of these flights UA needs to use aircraft that maximize space. The 77E even without the lower crew rest area has a lot of dead unusable space, even with 10 PMC's in the hold. Which is why we are seeing more 789s doing cargo charters and no 77Es. A 789 with 11 PMC's utilizes every inch of the containerized sections in the cargo compartment both forward and aft as does the 78X with 13 PMC's on board.

The 77W is just a beast of an aircraft in terms of what can be carried on 14 PMC's, last week UA operated a cargo charter on a 77W with over 100,000 pounds of cargo in the belly of the beast.

Thanks. My station only sees 77A’s and 77E’s, no charters as of yet. I was only speaking to the fact that normally, getting a LDCR 77E can be a pain from a planning perspective as the cycle in randomly.

Btw, interesting story on the SFO-GUM cargo flight on FT, Hub.

77H

kd9gy · Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:55 pm

kd9gy wrote:
Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

There's another 787 out of service in DEN. mechanics pushed an airbus out of the hangar and hit a 787 the other day.

A couple rolls of speedtape will fix it!

GmoneyCO · Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:50 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
kd9gy wrote:
Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

There's another 787 out of service in DEN. mechanics pushed an airbus out of the hangar and hit a 787 the other day.

Any idea which tail number was damaged at DEN?

audidudi · Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:22 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
kd9gy wrote:
Wondering about the status of the 78J with the bent wing at ORD...fixed or did they throw a tarp over it and parked it out of sight? Just curious with everything getting parked and stored.

There's another 787 out of service in DEN. mechanics pushed an airbus out of the hangar and hit a 787 the other day.

Any idea which tail number was damaged at DEN?

B788 N26906 perhaps?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26906

jayunited · Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:09 pm

audidudi wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

There's another 787 out of service in DEN. mechanics pushed an airbus out of the hangar and hit a 787 the other day.

Any idea which tail number was damaged at DEN?

B788 N26906 perhaps?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26906

That is not the aircraft that was damage, all 788s have been parked from some time now.

The aircraft that was damaged was N27957. Damage is described as minor unlike the event that happened at ORD which caused major damage to another 789.

FR24Virus · Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:14 am

jayunited wrote:
airplanedriver6 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
...however UA will not be using any 767s for cargo flights.

Interesting. Everything must be in containers or on smaller pallets, no?

Doesn't the 767 have the largest cargo door in UA's passenger fleet?

UA's 767's do have the largest forward cargo door in UA's fleet and the rear cargo door is the smallest in UA's fleet. Having said that a 763 can only accommodate 4 PMC's and a 764 can only take 5 PMC's. Compare that to a 77E it can accommodate 10 PMC's, 789 can hold 11 PMC's, a 78X can take 13 PMC's and a 77W can accommodate 14 PMC's.

Also do to floor weight limitation UA's 763s and a 764s can only accommodate one 10,000 pound PMC every other PMC must weigh substantially less and the PMC located behind the nose gear on a 763 and 764 can not weight more than 4,000 pounds give or take a few pounds. Compare that to the 77E, 789, 78X and 77W all of these frames in both the forward and aft cargo hold can accommodate numerous 10,000 pound PMC's and the pallet position right behind the nose gear the floor weight loading limit is in the 9,000 pound range.

Even if we get rid off all the pallets and load LD containers for lets say a USPS mail charter, 767s have something called lateral imbalance. The Post Office likes to use LD3s and with the lateral imbalance a 763 can only take 11 LD3 while the stretch 764 can only take 7 LD3s. The lateral imbalance is because the 767 does not have a full width floor so LD3s can not be paired, and since LD3s are not full with containers loading more than 11 or 7 or the varying fleet types results in to much weight on left side on the aircraft verses the right side of the aircraft.

Registered to say thanks, really interesting info. Off topic, do 76Fs have different pallets in belly?

calpsafltskeds wrote:
77W:
N2846U entered HKG maint 2775/30Mar

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2846u
From FR24, looks like it is one of those 77W cargo charters?

LGeneReese · Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:15 am

78J
N13013 B1 BOE48 CHSCHS 31Mar

jayunited · Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:38 pm

FR24Virus wrote:
Registered to say thanks, really interesting info. Off topic, do 76Fs have different pallets in belly?
[

No 767s do not have different pallets they take the same 96 inch or 88 inch pallets. But the next time you are at the airport take notice of the forward cargo compartment door you will notice that door is larger and any other door on any other aircraft in the fleet. Reason for this is because on a 767 pallets must be loaded longitudinally and not laterally like they would be on any other widebody and that is because the 767s floor plan is not wide enough to accommodate a pallet loaded laterally.

calpsafltskeds · Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:08 pm

Mainline Parked/Storage update: Parked aircraft do not have futures flights scheduled
319: 74 Total, 44 parked, 2 stored at ROW
320: 97 Total, 52 parked, 2 stored at ROW
73G: 40 Total, 24 parked
738 & 739 counts not done, but 739 nonERs are moving to ROW, 6 of 12 in or headed to ROW today
752: Total 51, 35 parked, 11 stored at ROW, including all 11 752PW
753: Total 21, 16 parked, 1 stored at ROW
763: Total 35, 29 parked, 1 in Polaris Mod
764: 16 Total, 1 in HKG maint, 15 stored at ROW
788: 12 Total, 10 parked, 1 in Polaris Mod
789: 28 Total, 19 parked, 1 in Polaris Mod
78X: Total 12, 5 parked
772 Domestic: 8 parked, 5 stored at ROW including sole 772ER Domestic and 3 ITPE (to become Domestic?)
772PW: 29 Total, 20 parked, 1 in Polaris Mod
772GE: 22 Total, 13 parked, 5 in Polaris Mod
77W: 22 Total, 7 parked, 1 in SFO Induction
Mainline Parked/stored Total: minimum of 384 (Wide 127, Narrow, 257 w/o 738/9 update)

ericm2031 · Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:27 pm

UA has loaded another round of cuts last night beginning 4/9 and loaded on United.com until 4/14 (a placeholder until next extension). Some routes I'm looking at have some increases (some hub to hub), but most are more drastic cuts, some up to 50% from this week.

Now 67% domestic cut for April, 78% worldwide.

Temporary suspensions, most returning either 5/4 or 6/4 tentatively:

SFO/ORD-ABQ
DEN-ATW
EWR/IAD-AUS
DEN-BDL
EWR-BTV
EWR-BUF
DEN-CHS
SFO-CLE
SFO-DFW
LAX-EUG
SFO-GEG
DEN-GRR
DEN-HOB
DEN-JAX
EWR-LAS
EWR-MCI
SFO/EWR-MSP
EWR-MSY
SFO-OKC
EWR/IAH-ORF
EWR-PHX
LAX-PSP
LAX-RDM
IAH-RIC
EWR-SAN
EWR-SAT
LAX-SEA
DEN-SHV
EWR-SNA
DEN-STS
DEN/EWR-SYR

intotheair · Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:34 pm

I wonder when they are going to extend the international cuts. I've booked DEN-MUC and FRA-DEN for early/mid May. I don't see how that's going to happen.

chepos · Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:34 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
UA has loaded another round of cuts last night beginning 4/9 and loaded on United.com until 4/14 (a placeholder until next extension). Some routes I'm looking at have some increases (some hub to hub), but most are more drastic cuts, some up to 50% from this week.

Now 67% domestic cut for April, 78% worldwide.

Temporary suspensions, most returning either 5/4 or 6/4 tentatively:

SFO/ORD-ABQ
DEN-ATW
EWR/IAD-AUS
DEN-BDL
EWR-BTV
EWR-BUF
DEN-CHS
SFO-CLE
SFO-DFW
LAX-EUG
SFO-GEG
DEN-GRR
DEN-HOB
DEN-JAX
EWR-LAS
EWR-MCI
SFO/EWR-MSP
EWR-MSY
SFO-OKC
EWR/IAH-ORF
EWR-PHX
LAX-PSP
LAX-RDM
IAH-RIC
EWR-SAN
EWR-SAT
LAX-SEA
DEN-SHV
EWR-SNA
DEN-STS
DEN/EWR-SYR

Whatever routes returning in May seems rather optimistic, with the situation worsening by the day in the US people are not going to be rushing onto airplanes at best until June.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ericm2031 · Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:43 pm

chepos wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
UA has loaded another round of cuts last night beginning 4/9 and loaded on United.com until 4/14 (a placeholder until next extension). Some routes I'm looking at have some increases (some hub to hub), but most are more drastic cuts, some up to 50% from this week.

Now 67% domestic cut for April, 78% worldwide.

Temporary suspensions, most returning either 5/4 or 6/4 tentatively:

SFO/ORD-ABQ
DEN-ATW
EWR/IAD-AUS
DEN-BDL
EWR-BTV
EWR-BUF
DEN-CHS
SFO-CLE
SFO-DFW
LAX-EUG
SFO-GEG
DEN-GRR
DEN-HOB
DEN-JAX
EWR-LAS
EWR-MCI
SFO/EWR-MSP
EWR-MSY
SFO-OKC
EWR/IAH-ORF
EWR-PHX
LAX-PSP
LAX-RDM
IAH-RIC
EWR-SAN
EWR-SAT
LAX-SEA
DEN-SHV
EWR-SNA
DEN-STS
DEN/EWR-SYR

Whatever routes returning in May seems rather optimistic, with the situation worsening by the day in the US people are not going to be rushing onto airplanes at best until June.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's the tentative resumption dates added in parentheses. Also service to ITO, OGG, LIH, KOA tentatively resumes 5/4

SFO (6/4)/ORD (?)-ABQ
DEN (6/4)-ATW
EWR (6/4)/IAD (5/4)-AUS
DEN-BDL (6/4)
EWR-BTV (5/4)
EWR-BUF (5/4)
DEN-CHS (6/4)
SFO-CLE (6/4)
SFO-DFW (6/4)
LAX-EUG (6/4)
SFO-GEG (5/4)
DEN-GRR (6/4)
DEN-HOB (6/4)
DEN-JAX (5/4)
EWR-LAS (5/4)
EWR-MCI (6/4)
SFO (6/4)/EWR (5/4)-MSP
EWR-MSY (6/4)
SFO-OKC (6/4)
EWR (5/4)/IAH (6/4)-ORF
EWR-PHX (5/4)
LAX-PSP (seasonal)
LAX-RDM (6/4)
IAH-RIC (6/4)
EWR-SAN (5/4)
EWR-SAT (6/4)
LAX-SEA (5/4)
DEN-SHV (5/4)
EWR-SNA (6/4)
DEN-STS (5/4)
DEN (6/4)/EWR (5/4)-SYR

atcsundevil · Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:55 pm

I forgot to post the usual notice the other day, but the fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil

CALTECH · Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:55 pm

kordcj wrote:
jayunited wrote:
CALTECH wrote:

There was talk of using bigger jets to grab cargo business.

It is no longer talk for the next few weeks UA will be operating up to 40 cargo flights per week. Most cargo flight are being operated on either 77Ws, 78Xs, and 789s, from time to time we are using 77Es, however UA will not be using any 767s for cargo flights.

Also just happened to check and today March 27, 2020 at 22:31 zulu time UA only has 75 flights in the air at different phases of their flight. It is hard to imagine that on a Friday evening generally one of the busiest travel days UA only has 75 mainline flights in the air.

Is that including express too or just mainline?

Only hearing about Mainline, Express is a separate entity. Don't know what Express plans are.

UAinAUS · Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:06 am

UAX Update:

Update on Parked 50-seat Jets. Trans States Airlines has completely shut down, and all units are stored for now. Below are all parked 50-seats jets. All other frames are either still flying or in for routine scheduled maintenance.

EV E45:
TYS: 535, 569, 570, 905, 976, 988
CLE: 537, 538, 540, 542, 545, 546, 548, 553, 556, 558, 564, 568, 573, 904, 908, 909, 910, 911, 915, 916, 980, 991
IAH: 574, 575, 901, 986, 987

AX E45:
STL: 832, 835, 836, 839, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847

AX E45X:
TYS: 101, 111, 112, 120, 122, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 138, 146, 150, 151, 153, 156
CLE: 102, 104, 113, 114, 116, 117, 119, 121, 123, 124, 125, 132, 136, 137, 144, 145, 155
IAH: 106, 142

C5 E45X:
ALB: 139, 143, 147, 152, 154, 157, 160, 162, 173, 174, 175, 186, 187, 191, 193, 197, 199, 202, 204

EV E45X:
TYS: 108, 109, 110, 180
IAH: 135, 158, 159
CLE: 167, 170

AW CR2:
DAY: 405, 413, 414, 454, 464
CAE: 438, 444, 452, 458, 461, 471
MKE: 415, 430, 431, 433, 437, 440
ATW: 420, 436, 449,

SW CR2:
ORD: 431
TUS: 464, 652, 881, 903EV, 941, 945, 980, 983, 986, 987
FAT: 466, 868
OKC: 932
COS: 915, 920, 962
SLC: 492
IAH: 927

CR5: all flying

airmec7 · Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:41 am

Here in PHX we have 0294 in storage and we are putting 0284 in to storage tonight

LGeneReese · Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:40 am

LGeneReese wrote:
78J
N13013 B1 BOE48 CHSCHS 31Mar

B2 BOE48 CHSCHS 3APR

789
N29978 shows RFD.. So will either craft actually deliver any time soon or just sit in a corner somewhere?

ordbosewr · Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:49 pm

LGeneReese wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
78J
N13013 B1 BOE48 CHSCHS 31Mar

B2 BOE48 CHSCHS 3APR

789
N29978 shows RFD.. So will either craft actually deliver any time soon or just sit in a corner somewhere?

I seem to recall a reply in one of the threads that UA will take delivery of all planes on order that they have financing already lined up. My guess is UA already had that done for all of the planes in the short timeframe (ie in the next month or so).Beyond that, like all of Max planes the only people that know work at the building formerly known as Sears Tower....

calpsafltskeds · Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:19 pm

I'm guessing on the below fleet reductions upon service re-start:
319: hope to undo easyJet deal - retire 20 pre-1999 units, take newer China Southern units, cheap way to replace aging units.
320: retire 40 pre-1998 or 50 pre-1999 units
73G: retain these 1998/99 units - possibly sublease WN units back to WN for now to bring in some cash.
738: All newer than 1997 - probably keep until heavy checks come up like done with some 319/320 units
739: All are 2008 and newer except 12 2001 non-ER units. They were based in IAH and range limitations were workable. I'd store them until needed, doubt if they would have sales value. See below for more of my take on the 739.
752: Exit the 11 PW units now - Exit RR units as heavy checks come due. They might be able to provide more flights to Ireland/British Isles until 321XLR arrive, when they should be removed one-to-one with 321 deliveries. See if cargo market might make a sale of any 752s - if so sell any in fleet.
753: Retain these 2001-04 units. If Condor units become available for a song, pick them up.

763: Take 2 class units (1991-93) and move seats to 764 - as each stripped, exit the 763 units. The 2 class units can operate Transcons pretty efficiently. until seat removal, but may need to be stored until seats stripped. Keep 46J units (1998/2002) - flip a coin on N652UA (1992) in 46J mod and N674UA (2000) that is still Diamond seating.
772: Park 3 ER ITPE units, then convert to Domestic when 772As need removal due heavy checks. 772As are pretty efficient as mass transit movers for Domestic and Hawaii. Complete and retain all 772Polaris ER units
787s, complete Polaris program.
That would remove about 90 Narrowbodies and remove 21 older 763s (2 class and Diamond) from schedule right away, except maybe N652UA which is in High J Polaris mod.
That's about 110 mainline aircraft. If more are needed, then store some for now.

As for Express aircraft, there could be total turmoil with these carriers struggling to survive - TransState is out of business and all UAX units parked. UA may not have a choice on some Express operators, but voiding UA of all 50 seat units may not reflect demand problems. Also, scope issues may continue to restrict matching seat demand with express units.

The 739A non-ER units are all at least 3 years newer than the oldest 738 and a superior ride. They have 4 more F seats, 9 more Y seats and a mid cabin lav. With takeoff weights equal to a 738, IMHO I'd park them until demand returns, but would much rather retire older 2008 738 units before the 2001 739s. The only issue with the 739A is limited MTOW, which has been successfully handled by basing the aircraft in IAH. Otherwise they match the 739ER interior except they do not have power in Y, which is the same power as the 738 fleet.

hOMSaR · Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:33 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
73G: retain these 1998/99 units - possibly sublease WN units back to WN for now to bring in some cash.

You’ve suggested this a couple of times now, but why would WN want to lease back any capacity? They’re just as affected as everyone else in this current situation. In the Southwest fleet thread, someone mentioned that they’re parking 200 planes themselves. They would have no reason to start paying UA for planes that neither airline needs at the moment.

sldispatcher · Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:57 pm

I would suppose that the future of the CR2’s and ERJ145’s will be to keep them in storage for a while vs scrapping?

I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that the air travel bounce back is going to be far more robust than predicted.
If that is the case, how quickly can such a complex logistical operation like United put capacity back into the system?

calpsafltskeds · Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:27 pm

Yes, I was just guessing if the MAX situation continues when the Coronavirus situation is winding down that maybe WN might need to retain aircraft instead of having to further reduce their fleet.

Of course, everyone has their fleets grounded, but after the virus situation is over, depending on demand (especially international demand), UA may have excess capacity with new units arriving and used units in the pipeline while WN will be reducing total fleet by lease returning units going to UA. Just a thought if that special, unlikely set of events take place.

Oops, with my post on 739s, I mistakenly talked about retiring 2008 738 units - that was an error and should have said 1998 units.

strfyr51 · Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:38 pm

jayunited wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Seems like everything is more or less "full steam ahead" with regard to mods and repainting so far? I wonder if that will change soon... Delta announced they were suspending mods (which IIRC is mostly just the 764 fleet at the time being) while parking a ton of widebodies.

I also hope the new high-J 763 configuration and the CR5s are still viable in whatever economy emerges from this pandemic. What looked like a great decision to add a bunch more premium seats not very long ago is now looking like potentially poor timing.

There could be a suspension but my understanding is the reason the mods continue is because the money has already been spent, the necessary equipment (minus the aircraft) is already there either at HKG or XMN. Lastly the maintenance companies have already been paid for some of the work. I would imagine that once the current inventory of supplies runs out at XMN and HKG, then UA would most likely suspend the remaining Polaris/PE modifications.

If I had to estimate I would say the 789s are probably done till 2021, the 788s depending on remaining inventory we may get 1 or 2 more frames into XMN then they are probably done till 2021. I believe there is only 1 PW 77E (not including the soon to be domestic conversions) still flying around with IPTE, and 3 or 4 GE 77Es. UA probably will finish the IPTE line by getting the last PW frame into XMN. I believe there are 3 GE frames with diamond seats still flying around, UA might have enough inventory to get 1 maybe 2 of those frames into HKG.

There are seven 763s remaining, they are some of the oldest 763s in our fleet. I would guess UA might suspend the 763 line at HKG because these 7 remaining frames were originally schedule for retirement. COVID-19 might cause UA to rethink that decision especially seeing that UA expects the fallout from COVID-19 to be felt for months if not a year or more. I don't believe UA will make a decision now about these 7 frames but in the coming months I think these 7 frames might find themselves again on the retirement list especially if the remaining 767 Polaris inventory at HKG can be placed on the 764 fleet.

From what I'm hearing here at Willis is some people don't believe the industry will fully recover from this until 2022 if that is the case I think the 7 oldest 763 will be retired.

. they
JAY? They'll do what they did before XMN and Hkg came about. We'll go back to doin airlines who can't do their own heavy checksg it ourselves. We had and still have a very capable Special Route crew. These guys can do anything that needs doing in modifying cabins engines airframe that needs to be done. Since we can no longer Paint at SFO? That has to be sent out, But other than that? We can muster the skills IN House! the entire reason for places like XMN and GSO are because the guys at United are making killer money and it's purely cost cutting to outsource that Maintenance. It is by NO means that we can't do it but it is that Management does Not want to do it in House. and? I seriously doubt they could Lay off any mechanics as long as they're outsourcing Maintenance. Besides? There are many OTHER Airlines who can't accomplish their OWN heavy checks or Modifications so those outsourced labor hours will only drop a little bit in the overall scheme.
Were SFO, IAH, HOU, and LAX to have to do checks? They could and I'll be would do a damn good job after a ramp up period.

Midwestindy · Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:06 pm

https://unitedafa.org/news/2020/4/4/ope ... -to-flying

EWR reduced to 15 flights a day to 9 destinations while LGA will be reduced to two flights a day to one destination

Nicknuzzii · Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:39 pm

Why wouldn’t they just fly a 737-700 to FRA instead of a wide body and waste so much fuel?

KVH68 · Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:42 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Seems like everything is more or less "full steam ahead" with regard to mods and repainting so far? I wonder if that will change soon... Delta announced they were suspending mods (which IIRC is mostly just the 764 fleet at the time being) while parking a ton of widebodies.

I also hope the new high-J 763 configuration and the CR5s are still viable in whatever economy emerges from this pandemic. What looked like a great decision to add a bunch more premium seats not very long ago is now looking like potentially poor timing.

There could be a suspension but my understanding is the reason the mods continue is because the money has already been spent, the necessary equipment (minus the aircraft) is already there either at HKG or XMN. Lastly the maintenance companies have already been paid for some of the work. I would imagine that once the current inventory of supplies runs out at XMN and HKG, then UA would most likely suspend the remaining Polaris/PE modifications.

If I had to estimate I would say the 789s are probably done till 2021, the 788s depending on remaining inventory we may get 1 or 2 more frames into XMN then they are probably done till 2021. I believe there is only 1 PW 77E (not including the soon to be domestic conversions) still flying around with IPTE, and 3 or 4 GE 77Es. UA probably will finish the IPTE line by getting the last PW frame into XMN. I believe there are 3 GE frames with diamond seats still flying around, UA might have enough inventory to get 1 maybe 2 of those frames into HKG.

There are seven 763s remaining, they are some of the oldest 763s in our fleet. I would guess UA might suspend the 763 line at HKG because these 7 remaining frames were originally schedule for retirement. COVID-19 might cause UA to rethink that decision especially seeing that UA expects the fallout from COVID-19 to be felt for months if not a year or more. I don't believe UA will make a decision now about these 7 frames but in the coming months I think these 7 frames might find themselves again on the retirement list especially if the remaining 767 Polaris inventory at HKG can be placed on the 764 fleet.

From what I'm hearing here at Willis is some people don't believe the industry will fully recover from this until 2022 if that is the case I think the 7 oldest 763 will be retired.
. they
JAY? They'll do what they did before XMN and Hkg came about. We'll go back to doin airlines who can't do their own heavy checksg it ourselves. We had and still have a very capable Special Route crew. These guys can do anything that needs doing in modifying cabins engines airframe that needs to be done. Since we can no longer Paint at SFO? That has to be sent out, But other than that? We can muster the skills IN House! the entire reason for places like XMN and GSO are because the guys at United are making killer money and it's purely cost cutting to outsource that Maintenance. It is by NO means that we can't do it but it is that Management does Not want to do it in House. and? I seriously doubt they could Lay off any mechanics as long as they're outsourcing Maintenance. Besides? There are many OTHER Airlines who can't accomplish their OWN heavy checks or Modifications so those outsourced labor hours will only drop a little bit in the overall scheme.
Were SFO, IAH, HOU, and LAX to have to do checks? They could and I'll be would do a damn good job after a ramp up period.

There is not enough manpower at the SFO maintenance base to do extra work. They are 250 mechanics short already. Nobody wants to take a job at SFO because of the low pay and high cost of living.

CriticalPoint · Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:41 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Why wouldn’t they just fly a 737-700 to FRA instead of a wide body and waste so much fuel?

Because it’ll run out of gas........

VirginFlyer · Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:30 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Why wouldn’t they just fly a 737-700 to FRA instead of a wide body and waste so much fuel?

Because it’ll run out of gas........

That, and it will be worth looking at how much freight is still going in the bellies of the widebodies...

V/F

jayunited · Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:54 am

Midwestindy wrote:
https://unitedafa.org/news/2020/4/4/operational-impact-of-covid-19-drives-additional-reductions-to-flying

EWR reduced to 15 flights a day to 9 destinations while LGA will be reduced to two flights a day to one destination

As we already know UA has already lost one EWR employee to COVID-19 and now I'm hearing there is a strong possibility that several dozen New York City based pilots and flight attendants have tested positive or have symptoms related to COVID-19.

If you know anyone in the NY or NJ area now is the time to say a prayer, light a candle, observe a moment a silence or whatever for the people in those states. I'm not going to post specific numbers but if what I'm hearing is true all I can say is Lord help us it not good at all. And to everyone whether you are a United employee or not take this virus seriously and protect yourself and please stay safe.

LAXintl · Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:01 am

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