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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:45 pm

sdh9 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If UA is requesting to exempt SJU, why are they still scheduling in to all these other non-domestic Caribbean VFR markets? It makes no sense to me.


Pretty sure the government only cares about US markets.


The service requirements only apply to US States and Territories.

Regarding SJU the exemption is only until May 6th when UA planned on restarting service. Otherwise UA would have to restart service prior to that date (whenever it accepted the terms of the grant from the US Government.) May 6th is in line with the rest of the Caribbean service they announced.

SPN service was shut down due to a specific and direct request from the Governor of that US Commonwealth. UA plans on restoring service on May 2nd barring another request. Again without making the request UA would have to restart service immediately..something the island and UA do not want.

Service to Hawaii outside of HNL is being suspended for a couple of reasons. One is holiday traffic has follow off a cliff edge and the flights would be mostly empty. Second is the Governor of Hawaii is actively suppressing tourism right now until the Pandemic is over or at least under control. The suspension of service is supported by him and the state until the 14 day quarantine period imposed on anyone coming to or traveling around the islands has been removed. UA could restart service prior to September but like everything right now flexibility is key.
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:46 pm

FSDan wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
Interesting they want to can VPS temporarily, though I guess the traffic is almost all leisure and they could still carry passengers from PNS/ECP.


I suspect it's the proximity of the other two airports that is the primary factor (similar to how they want to drop GRB, with ATW nearby). FWIW, I believe VPS has a decent amount of military and defense-related traffic due to Elgin AFB. I'd be a little surprised if VPS had a higher proportion of leisure traffic than ECP...

VPS is an Allegiant focus city. I don't have numbers, but I'm willing to bet that the amount of leisure traffic is at least comparable to ECP. UA has just never had much of a presence at VPS. In the off season, there are at best two daily E145s to IAH. In the summer it's maybe 3-4x daily. The seasonal flights to ORD/DEN are pretty new. Delta has always been the dominant carrier at VPS going back to the Northwest days, then American/US Airways. That pretty much leaves UA as the weakest carrier at VPS, and it's always been that way.

A good chunk of the traffic comes from Eglin AFB and Hurlburt Field (AFSOC headquarters), but most of it is leisure traffic for Destin.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:46 pm

codc10 wrote:
The Hawaii service suspensions are through 9/30, which is pretty remarkable. It's going to be a brutal summer for United, with essentially the entire leisure components of EU and Hawaii up in smoke.



I think the Hawaii service exemptions because of the required 14 day quarantine imposed on all passengers arriving in Hawaii. In fact just a few days ago the State of Hawaii put out a press release asking all tourist to reschedule their vacations for a later date. Since we don't know when the mandatory 14 day quarantine for all arriving passengers will end its just better to suspend everything except HNL, and even HNL is down to just SFO.

The constitution gives governors a tremendous amount of power over their own individual states. Even if the President wants to "open" things up in May the governor of Hawaii can keep the state essentially shut down and maintain the quarantine until the experts and data for the state of Hawaii deem it's safe to lift the quarantine. Perhaps UA has come across some information or been given information from Hawaii officials that have led them to believe Hawaii's mandatory 14 day quarantine will remain in place for some time to come. It is better to apply for the exemption and resume the service earlier than expected than to not apply and then be forced to fly what would amount to empty airplanes.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:25 pm

United1 wrote:
sdh9 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If UA is requesting to exempt SJU, why are they still scheduling in to all these other non-domestic Caribbean VFR markets? It makes no sense to me.


Pretty sure the government only cares about US markets.


The service requirements only apply to US States and Territories.

Regarding SJU the exemption is only until May 6th when UA planned on restarting service. Otherwise UA would have to restart service prior to that date (whenever it accepted the terms of the grant from the US Government.) May 6th is in line with the rest of the Caribbean service they announced.

SPN service was shut down due to a specific and direct request from the Governor of that US Commonwealth. UA plans on restoring service on May 2nd barring another request. Again without making the request UA would have to restart service immediately..something the island and UA do not want.

Service to Hawaii outside of HNL is being suspended for a couple of reasons. One is holiday traffic has follow off a cliff edge and the flights would be mostly empty. Second is the Governor of Hawaii is actively suppressing tourism right now until the Pandemic is over or at least under control. The suspension of service is supported by him and the state until the 14 day quarantine period imposed on anyone coming to or traveling around the islands has been removed. UA could restart service prior to September but like everything right now flexibility is key.


Have there been info that a lot of these travel restrictions to the islands are going to get completely lifted? I'm not sure what is special about May 6th? There will still be a lot of coronavirus cases in NY/NJ area at that time.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
United1 wrote:
sdh9 wrote:

Pretty sure the government only cares about US markets.


The service requirements only apply to US States and Territories.

Regarding SJU the exemption is only until May 6th when UA planned on restarting service. Otherwise UA would have to restart service prior to that date (whenever it accepted the terms of the grant from the US Government.) May 6th is in line with the rest of the Caribbean service they announced.

SPN service was shut down due to a specific and direct request from the Governor of that US Commonwealth. UA plans on restoring service on May 2nd barring another request. Again without making the request UA would have to restart service immediately..something the island and UA do not want.

Service to Hawaii outside of HNL is being suspended for a couple of reasons. One is holiday traffic has follow off a cliff edge and the flights would be mostly empty. Second is the Governor of Hawaii is actively suppressing tourism right now until the Pandemic is over or at least under control. The suspension of service is supported by him and the state until the 14 day quarantine period imposed on anyone coming to or traveling around the islands has been removed. UA could restart service prior to September but like everything right now flexibility is key.


Have there been info that a lot of these travel restrictions to the islands are going to get completely lifted? I'm not sure what is special about May 6th? There will still be a lot of coronavirus cases in NY/NJ area at that time.


Perhaps UA knows something we don't know but I haven't heard anything. NY/NJ and four of the other NE states started discussing a gradual re-opening and what hinted at what that would look like but I didn't hear dates. Same on the west coast, CA/OR/WA are coordinating a gradual re-opening and Gov Newson is supposed to outline that to us in CA tomorrow but I doubt if dates are going to be involved. More likely gatekeepers and milestones that will cause X to happen or Y to occur.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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chepos
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:14 am

tphuang wrote:
United1 wrote:
sdh9 wrote:

Pretty sure the government only cares about US markets.


The service requirements only apply to US States and Territories.

Regarding SJU the exemption is only until May 6th when UA planned on restarting service. Otherwise UA would have to restart service prior to that date (whenever it accepted the terms of the grant from the US Government.) May 6th is in line with the rest of the Caribbean service they announced.

SPN service was shut down due to a specific and direct request from the Governor of that US Commonwealth. UA plans on restoring service on May 2nd barring another request. Again without making the request UA would have to restart service immediately..something the island and UA do not want.

Service to Hawaii outside of HNL is being suspended for a couple of reasons. One is holiday traffic has follow off a cliff edge and the flights would be mostly empty. Second is the Governor of Hawaii is actively suppressing tourism right now until the Pandemic is over or at least under control. The suspension of service is supported by him and the state until the 14 day quarantine period imposed on anyone coming to or traveling around the islands has been removed. UA could restart service prior to September but like everything right now flexibility is key.


Have there been info that a lot of these travel restrictions to the islands are going to get completely lifted? I'm not sure what is special about May 6th? There will still be a lot of coronavirus cases in NY/NJ area at that time.

PR quarantine/curfew orders have been extended until early MAY (at the earliest). Arrivals into the island need to fill paper work and temperatures are taken upon arrival. The governor wants to start testing all arriving pax into the island with the quick test. Our cases on the island are going up and fast, I don’t see PR easing too much until we can grasp the situation as the infrastructure can’t support mass breakout like whats going on in the DR.


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Scarebus34
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:23 am

United to add new charter cargo flights to PEK, TPE, and CTU.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 51464d1121
 
wn676
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:00 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
United to add new charter cargo flights to PEK, TPE, and CTU.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 51464d1121


The end of the article gives more detail into why the NRT stopovers have been required. This has always been a crew issue. There have been rumors of the screening and quarantine requirements being eased soon, but until that happens you’ll continue to see the 1-stops.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:11 am

[twoid][/twoid]
wn676 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
United to add new charter cargo flights to PEK, TPE, and CTU.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 51464d1121


The end of the article gives more detail into why the NRT stopovers have been required. This has always been a crew issue. There have been rumors of the screening and quarantine requirements being eased soon, but until that happens you’ll continue to see the 1-stops.


Jayunited gave us some awesome insight on the real reason UAL is using NRT has a Pacific cargo hub. It has at least as much to do with load planning, if not more, than any other factor.
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:04 am

whats this story i hear about UA retiring some 763s? im assuming the non-polaris birds??
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:08 am

FAA put out an AD on the IAE V2500 engines that requires replacement of the HPT 1st stage disk at a cost of about $350k per engine. I don't know if UA would have to pick up the whole total, but its about $120 million for UA 319 and 320 units.
https://samchui.com/2020/04/13/faa-rais ... pVDDMhKiUk

789:
N19959 sked to exit XMN 2799/15Apr with Polaris/PP.
788 N29907 also showed exiting, but flight now shows cancelled.
There is no inbound 787 to XMN according to FR24.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:27 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
FAA put out an AD on the IAE V2500 engines that requires replacement of the HPT 1st stage disk at a cost of about $350k per engine. I don't know if UA would have to pick up the whole total, but its about $120 million for UA 319 and 320 units.
https://samchui.com/2020/04/13/faa-rais ... pVDDMhKiUk


If the blogger who wrote that article for Sam Chui had read the AD she would have discovered that it only applies to a specific batch of engines. Of which only two of those engines are registered in the US....not even sure if its UA.

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... -07-51.pdf

More Sam Chui reporting at its best :)
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:41 pm

wn676 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
United to add new charter cargo flights to PEK, TPE, and CTU.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 51464d1121


The end of the article gives more detail into why the NRT stopovers have been required. This has always been a crew issue. There have been rumors of the screening and quarantine requirements being eased soon, but until that happens you’ll continue to see the 1-stops.


The end of the article does have some truth but also the authors assumptions. Take for instance these statements where the author asserted their opinion which is based on facts but not all the facts.
"Carriers may give cargo capacity in tonnage, but this is less relevant since most in-demand cargo is volumetric and exceeds volume capacity before weight capacity."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 6b24b61121

For cargo charter flights it is absolutely true you will run out of space before you run out of weight.

The author then proceeds to make these next few statements;
"Unlike passengers, cargo is less discerning about making stops en route. Trans-Pacific cargo flights often stop in Anchorage for re-fuelling in order to maximize cargo payload and minimize weight allocated for fuel.

But layover conditions, and not payload restrictions, may be driving United’s stopover routings.

Pilots are concerned about layovers in certain cities, where rules are strict and often changing. Quarantine regulations for international arrivals may mean pilots are not allowed to leave their hotel room until they depart the country."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 6b24b61121

The above statement the author is mixing facts with their opinion. United didn't just start operating cargo flights from China via NRT, the first batch of charter flights UA operated from China did in fact operate nonstop but as I stated earlier our load planners were forced to leave cargo behind to balance the aircraft. The statement that weight capacity is not an issue is correct, no cargo charter comes close to approaching MZFW or MTOG what the author fails to take into account is balance. So when the they state layover conditions are being driven by layover restrictions and not payload they are only focusing on one part which is the weight the second and equally as important is the balance. One does not work without the other you can't be under MZFW or MTOG and be out of balance. Weight and balance are twins, one can't function without the other.

Also China isn't the only country with strict rules on crews flying into their country. In fact in Japan (NRT) requires all crew members to remain in their hotel rooms until their departure, they are required to eat all meals in their hotel room (they can not leave their hotel room at all during their layover), and they are not to use any type of public transportation to/from the airport. The author has mixed facts with assumptions instead of doing real journalism and seeing if China is alone in their restrictions. China is not the only country with some type of strict strict guidelines and restrictions on airline flight crew members other countries include but are not limited to Australia, Hong Kong, Israel, Taiwan, Switzerland, Singapore, Argentina, and many others. If the author would have taken the time to read both China and Japans restrictions on flight crew member layovers they will see Japan's restriction is just as strict as China's on all inbound crew members. The main reason for these layovers has to do with the ability to balance the aircraft by reducing the amount of fuel required to fly nonstop from China to the U.S. Remember China shut down their entire country they just reopened many of their factories so a lot of the heavy cargo UA was shipping pre-COVID-19 is not there because factories were closed and I'm not sure how strong demand is in the U.S. for a lot of the electronics, clothes or other Chinese made products because our economy is still closed. Again medical supplies make up a lot of what we are shipping out of China they take up a lot of volume but don't have the weight needed to produce the necessary tail weight needed balance the aircraft when there is a high fuel load.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:11 pm

Regrading parked and stored aircraft.
The Parked/Stored aircraft spreadsheet has been updated to reflect aircraft in storage locations and those parked/stored at UA stations for 14 days or longer. They are shown with white text - it might be a bit hard to read some of the text if the shading for which airport they are located is lighter, but you can always hover over the aircraft for the N number on the link or click on the link for a display in FlightAware. I show 111 widebodies parked/stored for 14 days or more and 167 narrowbodies. (aircraft in ROW shown as stored regardless of arrival date)
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfle ... ris-update

Good news on the AD on Airbus engines. Too bad the alarming article didn't go into detail as it appears to show only 11 total engines worldwide.

788:
N29907 exited XMN 2736/14Apr with Polaris and PP - now in HKG

789:
N15969 exited XMN 2735/14Apr with Polaris/PP - now in HKG
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:18 pm

xxcr wrote:
whats this story i hear about UA retiring some 763s? im assuming the non-polaris birds??

Nothing official, yet.

It would be sad, but not totally shocking since most of the remaining non-Polaris airplanes are from the oldest delivery set.

But ironically one of the newest 763s (674) had not been converted when the spam hit the fan.
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:36 am

airplanedriver6 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
whats this story i hear about UA retiring some 763s? im assuming the non-polaris birds??

Nothing official, yet.

It would be sad, but not totally shocking since most of the remaining non-Polaris airplanes are from the oldest delivery set.

But ironically one of the newest 763s (674) had not been converted when the spam hit the fan.


i guess if UA does retire some 763's including the ones with Polaris, they could just transfer the seats to the 764.....
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:42 am

does anyone have a picture of N222UA? would like to see the difference in interiors compared to the older domestic layout.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:51 pm

xxcr wrote:
does anyone have a picture of N222UA? would like to see the difference in interiors compared to the older domestic layout.


I could be wrong but I don't believe N222UA ever reenter revenue service, I believe there was an issue with the flight deck barrier being removed. Keep in mind there was a pilot rest area on the left side of the aircraft right behind the flight deck and when occupied the barrier was deployed which also blocked off the only global first lavatory. To the best of my knowledge the pilot crew rest area has been removed and in its place a there is a closet and I think (again I could be wrong) but I think UA reinstalled the lavatory so there would now be 2 lavs behind the flight deck. (For those of you who are not familiar before the merger UA remove 2 lavatories from some of our 77Es one was removed from first class along with a closet to make room for a pilot rest area. The second lavatory was removed from coach near door 3R so the FA's could access their downstairs bunker.)

It is my understanding that when the pilot rest area was removed during modification they discarded the barrier as well and never reinstalled it. Perhaps UA thought both the pilots and FA's would be okay with blocking the walkway with galley carts whenever the flight deck door was open during flight. As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service. Originally the aircraft was grounded at SFO awaiting the reinstallation of the barrier and now it is temporarily stored at ROW.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service.


Ugh... not that fight again! Almost 10 years later and still not resolved (in various forms).
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:28 pm

codc10 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service.


Ugh... not that fight again! Almost 10 years later and still not resolved (in various forms).


The agreement was to NOT remove it on any aircraft that had it already.
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
xxcr wrote:
does anyone have a picture of N222UA? would like to see the difference in interiors compared to the older domestic layout.


I could be wrong but I don't believe N222UA ever reenter revenue service, I believe there was an issue with the flight deck barrier being removed. Keep in mind there was a pilot rest area on the left side of the aircraft right behind the flight deck and when occupied the barrier was deployed which also blocked off the only global first lavatory. To the best of my knowledge the pilot crew rest area has been removed and in its place a there is a closet and I think (again I could be wrong) but I think UA reinstalled the lavatory so there would now be 2 lavs behind the flight deck. (For those of you who are not familiar before the merger UA remove 2 lavatories from some of our 77Es one was removed from first class along with a closet to make room for a pilot rest area. The second lavatory was removed from coach near door 3R so the FA's could access their downstairs bunker.)

It is my understanding that when the pilot rest area was removed during modification they discarded the barrier as well and never reinstalled it. Perhaps UA thought both the pilots and FA's would be okay with blocking the walkway with galley carts whenever the flight deck door was open during flight. As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service. Originally the aircraft was grounded at SFO awaiting the reinstallation of the barrier and now it is temporarily stored at ROW.


gotcha...whats this barrier that you're talking about?
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:55 pm

I'm not sure if its the same exact on the PW 777s but on the 747-400s there was a wire mesh barrier that was pulled across the forward part of the upper deck and blocked access to the bathroom so that the pilots could leave the flight deck and use the bathroom.

In this photo, on The Points Guy, on the left you can see the gate in collapsed form on the wall and the latch plate where it locks in on the right.

Image
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:48 pm

Gmoney's post and picture is correct there was a similar barrier installed on the PW 77Es that had the pilot rest area located behind the flight deck door on the left hand side of the aircraft.

The pilot rest area on those 77E is very small (narrow) so whenever the rest area was occupied the barrier was deployed. If you were/are claustrophobic that pilot rest area was not a place you wanted to be in especially with the door closed. I'm not sure if there are any public pictures of sUAs 77E pilot rest area to give people a sense of what I'm talking about when I say small and confining. It is my understanding that most pilots hated those bunkers so ALPA at some point forced UA to once again go back and reserve 1 Global First seat for pilot rest on flights 6-11 hours (3 person crew) and 2 Global First seats had to be reserved for pilot rest on all flights over 11 hours (4 person crew). In the end the barrier was only deployed when the flight crew personnel needed to open the flight deck door.

UA takes safety and security seriously and I'm not sure if the failure to reinstall the barrier was an mistake or not but on this issue I agree with the pilots and FA's. Reinstall the barrier, because using galley carts and FA's as a shield to block the flight deck during the brief moments that door is open is not appropriate.
Last edited by jayunited on Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:49 pm

How much longer will this have to prolong for UA to retire 757 and 767s?
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:30 am

jayunited wrote:
Gmoney's post and picture is correct there was a similar barrier installed on the PW 77Es that had the pilot rest area located behind the flight deck door on the left hand side of the aircraft.

The pilot rest area on those 77E is very small (narrow) so whenever the rest area was occupied the barrier was deployed. If you were/are claustrophobic that pilot rest area was not a place you wanted to be in especially with the door closed. I'm not sure if there are any public pictures of sUAs 77E pilot rest area to give people a sense of what I'm talking about when I say small and confining. It is my understanding that most pilots hated those bunkers so ALPA at some point forced UA to once again go back and reserve 1 Global First seat for pilot rest on flights 6-11 hours (3 person crew) and 2 Global First seats had to be reserved for pilot rest on all flights over 11 hours (4 person crew). In the end the barrier was only deployed when the flight crew personnel needed to open the flight deck door.

UA takes safety and security seriously and I'm not sure if the failure to reinstall the barrier was an mistake or not but on this issue I agree with the pilots and FA's. Reinstall the barrier, because using galley carts and FA's as a shield to block the flight deck during the brief moments that door is open is not appropriate.


Did they leave the gate installed on the 77N aircraft as part of the Polaris mod work or did they change the setup?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:33 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How much longer will this have to prolong for UA to retire 757 and 767s?



UA may end up retiring some of our oldest 763s and all the PW 752s. I think a majority of the RR 752 will remain for now until the MAX10s arrive. I think the 753s are safe for the immediate future as are all the 764 aircraft. I think the 763 1998 frames through the recently delivered HA frames will remain in the fleet.

If UA were to retire all of our 757s and all of our 767s our seating capacity would would have a giant hole between the 179 seat 739ERs and the 243 seat (Polaris/PE) 788s, that is a difference of 64 seats. Retiring the entire 757/767 fleet would mean UA would essentially be gutting the better part of our European network until at least 2025 because our A321XLRs don't even arrive until the second half of 2024. Right now most airlines are projecting a recovery time of around 18 months to perhaps 24 months. UA has made it clear the 788 is not the most optimal aircraft for our network on medium haul international European routes from our hubs at EWR and IAD, it is why they have kept the 763 around for so long.

So unless we are now looking at a 48 to 60 month recovery time frame I don't see UA retiring our entire fleet of 757s and 767s. As I said earlier I think the oldest frames will go they youngest will remain, I think some of our oldest A320s will go because UA has quite a few used Airbuses in the pipeline waiting to be delivered. Also some of our oldest 737s may be retired those frames can be replaced by MAX8/9/10s (once re-certified) and we still have used 73Gs that are being delivered. UA will emerge from this crisis a smaller airline but I think we will emerge will all our pre-COVID-19 fleet types still flying just not as many frames in each fleet type.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:36 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
Did they leave the gate installed on the 77N aircraft as part of the Polaris mod work or did they change the setup?


I believe the agreement was UA could not remove the barriers from any aircraft that already had them installed.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:52 am

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
How much longer will this have to prolong for UA to retire 757 and 767s?



UA may end up retiring some of our oldest 763s and all the PW 752s. I think a majority of the RR 752 will remain for now until the MAX10s arrive. I think the 753s are safe for the immediate future as are all the 764 aircraft. I think the 763 1998 frames through the recently delivered HA frames will remain in the fleet.

If UA were to retire all of our 757s and all of our 767s our seating capacity would would have a giant hole between the 179 seat 739ERs and the 243 seat (Polaris/PE) 788s, that is a difference of 64 seats. Retiring the entire 757/767 fleet would mean UA would essentially be gutting the better part of our European network until at least 2025 because our A321XLRs don't even arrive until the second half of 2024. Right now most airlines are projecting a recovery time of around 18 months to perhaps 24 months. UA has made it clear the 788 is not the most optimal aircraft for our network on medium haul international European routes from our hubs at EWR and IAD, it is why they have kept the 763 around for so long.

So unless we are now looking at a 48 to 60 month recovery time frame I don't see UA retiring our entire fleet of 757s and 767s. As I said earlier I think the oldest frames will go they youngest will remain, I think some of our oldest A320s will go because UA has quite a few used Airbuses in the pipeline waiting to be delivered. Also some of our oldest 737s may be retired those frames can be replaced by MAX8/9/10s (once re-certified) and we still have used 73Gs that are being delivered. UA will emerge from this crisis a smaller airline but I think we will emerge will all our pre-COVID-19 fleet types still flying just not as many frames in each fleet type.


Thanks for this because this is not something I would have predicted before you mentioned it. Hopefully we could get those Max 10s coming soon to help relieve the 757s.

Also not sure if you would have an answer to this but I am seeing that EW is no longer selling EWR - DUS but UA and LH are. EW is also still selling all their other longhaul flights. Is this route being taken over or cancelled all together? It would be a shame to see a such a long-standing route go.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:33 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Also not sure if you would have an answer to this but I am seeing that EW is no longer selling EWR - DUS but UA and LH are. EW is also still selling all their other longhaul flights. Is this route being taken over or cancelled all together? It would be a shame to see a such a long-standing route go.


LH is making a lot of changes to the longhaul network for this summer, so I wouldn't consider anything set in stone, aside from the fact that the Eurowings longhaul flying probably won't be happening.

EWR-DUS is strong at the German point of sale, and there has always been a preference for a German carrier on that end, but I always saw that route in particular as a candidate for replacement by UA with a 763 under the JV. We'll see what happens.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:44 am

codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Also not sure if you would have an answer to this but I am seeing that EW is no longer selling EWR - DUS but UA and LH are. EW is also still selling all their other longhaul flights. Is this route being taken over or cancelled all together? It would be a shame to see a such a long-standing route go.


LH is making a lot of changes to the longhaul network for this summer, so I wouldn't consider anything set in stone, aside from the fact that the Eurowings longhaul flying probably won't be happening.

EWR-DUS is strong at the German point of sale, and there has always been a preference for a German carrier on that end, but I always saw that route in particular as a candidate for replacement by UA with a 763 under the JV. We'll see what happens.


Yes, I think we can all agree EW most likely won’t be operating the route but is there any reason why it would be the only route they don’t show as for sale anymore on their end?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:21 am

77W:
N2352U first flight 2581/15Apr, seems a bit odd: 3 2500 flight numbers on one day SFO-ELP-HNL-SFO routing, military charter?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:21 am

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... ing-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.

At this point, no numbers for May will shock me. What I wish I knew (and I know no one here has the crystal ball to tell me) is how much flying in July will compare to last year. That will be the test to recovery. If frequencies in July are back to 75%+, and flying in September is back to 90%+, I would say the recovery will be going well. I'm not making any guesses as to load factor.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:07 pm

cosyr wrote:
At this point, no numbers for May will shock me. What I wish I knew (and I know no one here has the crystal ball to tell me) is how much flying in July will compare to last year. That will be the test to recovery. If frequencies in July are back to 75%+, and flying in September is back to 90%+, I would say the recovery will be going well. I'm not making any guesses as to load factor.


As much as I would love to be that optimistic I really can't. Four to five weeks ago I was optimistic that the industry would be on its way to recovery by July and in full recovery by October but that is not going to happen at least not this year. Allow me to explain why my views have changed over the past 4-5 weeks.

Internationally: A lot of countries have closed their borders many of these countries are not even considering opening their borders until July at the earliest but with serious restrictions. There have also been reports suggesting that many countries may (I stress may) require visitors including tourist to carry proof that they are not COVID-19 positive. That will present many challenges because right now I'm not sure how many countries have the ability to test their entire population or at the very least the traveling population. So if countries move ahead with requiring . all entrants to carry proof they are COVID-19 negative that will impact and depress traffic.

Domestically: Unemployment is through the roof for many people discretionary spending is out because they are worried about keep a roof over their heads, keeping the lights on and food on the table. Domestically the U.S. has not had a coordinated response to this virus (that is as far as I'm going to go with that statement because I don't want to take the thread off topic). As much as I had hoped 4-5 weeks ago that the economy would be fully reopened by June/July/August it is starting to look like parts of the U.S. economy will reopen but major sections will remain closed.

One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.


I like the frankness coming out of UA. This crisis will be very hard on everyone, especially the legacy carriers. The tone and actions taken by AA and UA is quite striking. UA is being very cautious with their planning and aggressive with their cuts. At this point, operating 10% of your schedule is probably the smartest thing you can do until demand picks back up.

AA on the other hand was the slowest in reducing its schedule among the big 3 and still scheduling over 300 flights a day from Dallas. And then Doug Parker is out there on CNBC telling the world he will be looking to get around the terms of the CARES bailout and how he is seeing booking more than 3 months out. It seems like he is more worried about making investors happy than saving his airline.

My guess at this point is that both AA and UA will have to apply for additional loans from the gov't. But the burn rate at AA is probably a lot higher than both DL/UA at this point.

jayunited wrote:
[
One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.

I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.
 
codc10
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:51 pm

cosyr wrote:
At this point, no numbers for May will shock me. What I wish I knew (and I know no one here has the crystal ball to tell me) is how much flying in July will compare to last year. That will be the test to recovery. If frequencies in July are back to 75%+, and flying in September is back to 90%+, I would say the recovery will be going well. I'm not making any guesses as to load factor.


Honestly, if we are at 25% in July (a 75% cut), that's a win. Right now, United is operating at about a 90-95% schedule cut with 97% less traffic, with the same most assuredly to be the case in May and similar forecasts for June. That is nothing short of DEVASTATING, and absent guidance on how the economy will reopen (which nobody can credibly offer right now, for good reason), there won't be any improvement in the demand situation. It is remarkable to see that Scott Kirby's -70% "worst case scenario" projection from the start of the crisis turned out to be completely unattainable.

Best case scenario is that the economy starts to reopen in phases during May, so traffic begins to come off the current (~97%) lows. Right now, the arrow is still pointing down. That has to reverse before we can even contemplate a recovery. Sadly, even the projections for 25-30% cuts by EOY seem optimistic.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.



You are absolutely correct even with all the steps UA and all the other airlines are taking things could still go badly depending on how deep a hole this industry is in. Before COVID-19 there was no appetite for further consolidation and we are not there yet . But the longer the industry is in this crisis we could be looking at further consolidation within the US industry in my opinion.
 
UA444
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:18 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.


I like the frankness coming out of UA. This crisis will be very hard on everyone, especially the legacy carriers. The tone and actions taken by AA and UA is quite striking. UA is being very cautious with their planning and aggressive with their cuts. At this point, operating 10% of your schedule is probably the smartest thing you can do until demand picks back up.

AA on the other hand was the slowest in reducing its schedule among the big 3 and still scheduling over 300 flights a day from Dallas. And then Doug Parker is out there on CNBC telling the world he will be looking to get around the terms of the CARES bailout and how he is seeing booking more than 3 months out. It seems like he is more worried about making investors happy than saving his airline.

My guess at this point is that both AA and UA will have to apply for additional loans from the gov't. But the burn rate at AA is probably a lot higher than both DL/UA at this point.

jayunited wrote:
[
One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.

I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.

Doug Parker is the same clown who said they’d never lose money again
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2086
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:43 pm

UA444 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.


I like the frankness coming out of UA. This crisis will be very hard on everyone, especially the legacy carriers. The tone and actions taken by AA and UA is quite striking. UA is being very cautious with their planning and aggressive with their cuts. At this point, operating 10% of your schedule is probably the smartest thing you can do until demand picks back up.

AA on the other hand was the slowest in reducing its schedule among the big 3 and still scheduling over 300 flights a day from Dallas. And then Doug Parker is out there on CNBC telling the world he will be looking to get around the terms of the CARES bailout and how he is seeing booking more than 3 months out. It seems like he is more worried about making investors happy than saving his airline.

My guess at this point is that both AA and UA will have to apply for additional loans from the gov't. But the burn rate at AA is probably a lot higher than both DL/UA at this point.

jayunited wrote:
[
One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.

I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.

Doug Parker is the same clown who said they’d never lose money again


Thank you - we were just discussing that statement yesterday.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:16 am

Given that NJ just announced we will continue the stay-at-home through May 15th, I don't see things getting any better for EWR for some time. Even then the odds on demand getting back to normal is going to be a challenge.
It will be interesting as we head into summer if some demand may be there depending on what the requirements are.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:52 am

ordbosewr wrote:
Given that NJ just announced we will continue the stay-at-home through May 15th, I don't see things getting any better for EWR for some time. Even then the odds on demand getting back to normal is going to be a challenge.
It will be interesting as we head into summer if some demand may be there depending on what the requirements are.

As other states start to open up throughout May and into June - we'll see just how willing people are to travel. People will have been stuck in their homes and most forgoing spring break vacations. People will want to get out. Just how many is the question. If there's enough deals out there - people will go.
 
Pinto
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:21 am

With Newark being in as bad if shape with the virus why doesn't UA route intl flying through IAD for the time being?
 
jayunited
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:57 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
As other states start to open up throughout May and into June - we'll see just how willing people are to travel. People will have been stuck in their homes and most forgoing spring break vacations. People will want to get out. Just how many is the question. If there's enough deals out there - people will go.


The question is get out and go where?

Canada announced yesterday an agreement with the US to extend the Canadian-US border closure except for essential travel. Many international countries have travel bans in place and many countries are looking at requiring arriving passenger to carry proof that they are COVID-19 negative. The state of Hawaii in March asked visitors to stay away. They just reiterated that message again on April 9th, and they took it a step further and the states visitors bureau is now asking travel agencies not to promote travel to the islands and asking people to rethink their summer travel plans. I think this is why UA applied for an exemption through the CARES act for certain Hawaiian Islands until September. Every person who arrives into the state must quarantine themselves for at least 14 days and the Governor has given no indication as to when that requirement will be dropped.

The cruise industry is still on hiatus and can not resume until cleared by the CDC. The CDC just last week extended the suspension of all cruising from any US port for an additional 100 days means the earliest cruises can resume is in July. Many international ports including those in the Caribbean will remain closed as well.

Then there is the lower 48 states, we know the "traditional tourist destinations" will not be open. Of the states that will be open how many of those states will be at step 2 or step 3 of the Trump Administrations Guide to Reopening the Economy. Most of the nonessential business that rakes in those tourist dollars are not allowed to open until step 3. Also at any point in time if the numbers trend in the opposite direction a state could go from step 2 back to 1 or from step 3 to step 2. Major metropolitan areas like New York, Boston, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, Orlando, Chicago, New Orleans, perhaps even Dallas, Houston, and Austin are not going to be fully open in May. If I had to guess I would say major theme parks including the most famous of them all Disney World will not be open in May or even June. For the foodies who like to go on foodcations (yes that is a word, google it, I love a good foodcation) restaurants will open if the state has met the threshold and social distancing will be required so you may not even be able to get in and take a seat.

I get what you are saying people are itching to get out but until a major portion of the country is reopen meaning at step 3 and until international countries reopen, and until testing is ramped up (may be required to travel internationally) I don't see people running to get on an airplane. Personally I think people will get out and enjoy their own community, their own city because they want to see those local business come back, they want to keep their family, friends, and neighbors employed.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4297
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:21 pm

[*]
Pinto wrote:
With Newark being in as bad if shape with the virus why doesn't UA route intl flying through IAD for the time being?


What flying? Lol.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:52 pm

789
N24979 B1 BOE354 CHSCHS 17APR... FAL is shutdown but flight testing carry's on.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3224
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:17 pm

772:
N77022 sked to exit HKG 2719/18Apr with Polaris/PP - just 48 days, probably since several mod lines closed

789:
N17963 sked to exit VCV paint 2760/18Apr, EvoBlu or touchup?? Delivered in Globe in 2016

UA now using HOU as storage location: 1 320 and 6 737s, which includes 1 or 2 737s in maint
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:24 pm

Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    Nicknuzzii
    Posts: 1153
    Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:25 pm

    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.


    I live in the area and no one has remotely thought of leaving.
     
    MohawkWeekend
    Posts: 255
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 pm

    That is good to hear. Once the world's pharmaceutical companies and research labs find effective treatments, cities/state/countries will find ways to prepare better.
      300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
       
      codc10
      Posts: 2872
      Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:38 am

      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.


      I live in the area and no one has remotely thought of leaving.


      That’s awfully conclusory... I guess that settles the matter!

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