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jayunited
Posts: 3021
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:51 pm

xxcr wrote:
does anyone have a picture of N222UA? would like to see the difference in interiors compared to the older domestic layout.


I could be wrong but I don't believe N222UA ever reenter revenue service, I believe there was an issue with the flight deck barrier being removed. Keep in mind there was a pilot rest area on the left side of the aircraft right behind the flight deck and when occupied the barrier was deployed which also blocked off the only global first lavatory. To the best of my knowledge the pilot crew rest area has been removed and in its place a there is a closet and I think (again I could be wrong) but I think UA reinstalled the lavatory so there would now be 2 lavs behind the flight deck. (For those of you who are not familiar before the merger UA remove 2 lavatories from some of our 77Es one was removed from first class along with a closet to make room for a pilot rest area. The second lavatory was removed from coach near door 3R so the FA's could access their downstairs bunker.)

It is my understanding that when the pilot rest area was removed during modification they discarded the barrier as well and never reinstalled it. Perhaps UA thought both the pilots and FA's would be okay with blocking the walkway with galley carts whenever the flight deck door was open during flight. As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service. Originally the aircraft was grounded at SFO awaiting the reinstallation of the barrier and now it is temporarily stored at ROW.
 
codc10
Posts: 2908
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service.


Ugh... not that fight again! Almost 10 years later and still not resolved (in various forms).
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:28 pm

codc10 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service.


Ugh... not that fight again! Almost 10 years later and still not resolved (in various forms).


The agreement was to NOT remove it on any aircraft that had it already.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
xxcr wrote:
does anyone have a picture of N222UA? would like to see the difference in interiors compared to the older domestic layout.


I could be wrong but I don't believe N222UA ever reenter revenue service, I believe there was an issue with the flight deck barrier being removed. Keep in mind there was a pilot rest area on the left side of the aircraft right behind the flight deck and when occupied the barrier was deployed which also blocked off the only global first lavatory. To the best of my knowledge the pilot crew rest area has been removed and in its place a there is a closet and I think (again I could be wrong) but I think UA reinstalled the lavatory so there would now be 2 lavs behind the flight deck. (For those of you who are not familiar before the merger UA remove 2 lavatories from some of our 77Es one was removed from first class along with a closet to make room for a pilot rest area. The second lavatory was removed from coach near door 3R so the FA's could access their downstairs bunker.)

It is my understanding that when the pilot rest area was removed during modification they discarded the barrier as well and never reinstalled it. Perhaps UA thought both the pilots and FA's would be okay with blocking the walkway with galley carts whenever the flight deck door was open during flight. As it turns out both the pilots and FA's want that permanent barrier reinstalled UA agreed and I don't thing the aircraft reentered service. Originally the aircraft was grounded at SFO awaiting the reinstallation of the barrier and now it is temporarily stored at ROW.


gotcha...whats this barrier that you're talking about?
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:55 pm

I'm not sure if its the same exact on the PW 777s but on the 747-400s there was a wire mesh barrier that was pulled across the forward part of the upper deck and blocked access to the bathroom so that the pilots could leave the flight deck and use the bathroom.

In this photo, on The Points Guy, on the left you can see the gate in collapsed form on the wall and the latch plate where it locks in on the right.

Image
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:48 pm

Gmoney's post and picture is correct there was a similar barrier installed on the PW 77Es that had the pilot rest area located behind the flight deck door on the left hand side of the aircraft.

The pilot rest area on those 77E is very small (narrow) so whenever the rest area was occupied the barrier was deployed. If you were/are claustrophobic that pilot rest area was not a place you wanted to be in especially with the door closed. I'm not sure if there are any public pictures of sUAs 77E pilot rest area to give people a sense of what I'm talking about when I say small and confining. It is my understanding that most pilots hated those bunkers so ALPA at some point forced UA to once again go back and reserve 1 Global First seat for pilot rest on flights 6-11 hours (3 person crew) and 2 Global First seats had to be reserved for pilot rest on all flights over 11 hours (4 person crew). In the end the barrier was only deployed when the flight crew personnel needed to open the flight deck door.

UA takes safety and security seriously and I'm not sure if the failure to reinstall the barrier was an mistake or not but on this issue I agree with the pilots and FA's. Reinstall the barrier, because using galley carts and FA's as a shield to block the flight deck during the brief moments that door is open is not appropriate.
Last edited by jayunited on Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:49 pm

How much longer will this have to prolong for UA to retire 757 and 767s?
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 164
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:30 am

jayunited wrote:
Gmoney's post and picture is correct there was a similar barrier installed on the PW 77Es that had the pilot rest area located behind the flight deck door on the left hand side of the aircraft.

The pilot rest area on those 77E is very small (narrow) so whenever the rest area was occupied the barrier was deployed. If you were/are claustrophobic that pilot rest area was not a place you wanted to be in especially with the door closed. I'm not sure if there are any public pictures of sUAs 77E pilot rest area to give people a sense of what I'm talking about when I say small and confining. It is my understanding that most pilots hated those bunkers so ALPA at some point forced UA to once again go back and reserve 1 Global First seat for pilot rest on flights 6-11 hours (3 person crew) and 2 Global First seats had to be reserved for pilot rest on all flights over 11 hours (4 person crew). In the end the barrier was only deployed when the flight crew personnel needed to open the flight deck door.

UA takes safety and security seriously and I'm not sure if the failure to reinstall the barrier was an mistake or not but on this issue I agree with the pilots and FA's. Reinstall the barrier, because using galley carts and FA's as a shield to block the flight deck during the brief moments that door is open is not appropriate.


Did they leave the gate installed on the 77N aircraft as part of the Polaris mod work or did they change the setup?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:33 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How much longer will this have to prolong for UA to retire 757 and 767s?



UA may end up retiring some of our oldest 763s and all the PW 752s. I think a majority of the RR 752 will remain for now until the MAX10s arrive. I think the 753s are safe for the immediate future as are all the 764 aircraft. I think the 763 1998 frames through the recently delivered HA frames will remain in the fleet.

If UA were to retire all of our 757s and all of our 767s our seating capacity would would have a giant hole between the 179 seat 739ERs and the 243 seat (Polaris/PE) 788s, that is a difference of 64 seats. Retiring the entire 757/767 fleet would mean UA would essentially be gutting the better part of our European network until at least 2025 because our A321XLRs don't even arrive until the second half of 2024. Right now most airlines are projecting a recovery time of around 18 months to perhaps 24 months. UA has made it clear the 788 is not the most optimal aircraft for our network on medium haul international European routes from our hubs at EWR and IAD, it is why they have kept the 763 around for so long.

So unless we are now looking at a 48 to 60 month recovery time frame I don't see UA retiring our entire fleet of 757s and 767s. As I said earlier I think the oldest frames will go they youngest will remain, I think some of our oldest A320s will go because UA has quite a few used Airbuses in the pipeline waiting to be delivered. Also some of our oldest 737s may be retired those frames can be replaced by MAX8/9/10s (once re-certified) and we still have used 73Gs that are being delivered. UA will emerge from this crisis a smaller airline but I think we will emerge will all our pre-COVID-19 fleet types still flying just not as many frames in each fleet type.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:36 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
Did they leave the gate installed on the 77N aircraft as part of the Polaris mod work or did they change the setup?


I believe the agreement was UA could not remove the barriers from any aircraft that already had them installed.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:52 am

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
How much longer will this have to prolong for UA to retire 757 and 767s?



UA may end up retiring some of our oldest 763s and all the PW 752s. I think a majority of the RR 752 will remain for now until the MAX10s arrive. I think the 753s are safe for the immediate future as are all the 764 aircraft. I think the 763 1998 frames through the recently delivered HA frames will remain in the fleet.

If UA were to retire all of our 757s and all of our 767s our seating capacity would would have a giant hole between the 179 seat 739ERs and the 243 seat (Polaris/PE) 788s, that is a difference of 64 seats. Retiring the entire 757/767 fleet would mean UA would essentially be gutting the better part of our European network until at least 2025 because our A321XLRs don't even arrive until the second half of 2024. Right now most airlines are projecting a recovery time of around 18 months to perhaps 24 months. UA has made it clear the 788 is not the most optimal aircraft for our network on medium haul international European routes from our hubs at EWR and IAD, it is why they have kept the 763 around for so long.

So unless we are now looking at a 48 to 60 month recovery time frame I don't see UA retiring our entire fleet of 757s and 767s. As I said earlier I think the oldest frames will go they youngest will remain, I think some of our oldest A320s will go because UA has quite a few used Airbuses in the pipeline waiting to be delivered. Also some of our oldest 737s may be retired those frames can be replaced by MAX8/9/10s (once re-certified) and we still have used 73Gs that are being delivered. UA will emerge from this crisis a smaller airline but I think we will emerge will all our pre-COVID-19 fleet types still flying just not as many frames in each fleet type.


Thanks for this because this is not something I would have predicted before you mentioned it. Hopefully we could get those Max 10s coming soon to help relieve the 757s.

Also not sure if you would have an answer to this but I am seeing that EW is no longer selling EWR - DUS but UA and LH are. EW is also still selling all their other longhaul flights. Is this route being taken over or cancelled all together? It would be a shame to see a such a long-standing route go.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:33 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Also not sure if you would have an answer to this but I am seeing that EW is no longer selling EWR - DUS but UA and LH are. EW is also still selling all their other longhaul flights. Is this route being taken over or cancelled all together? It would be a shame to see a such a long-standing route go.


LH is making a lot of changes to the longhaul network for this summer, so I wouldn't consider anything set in stone, aside from the fact that the Eurowings longhaul flying probably won't be happening.

EWR-DUS is strong at the German point of sale, and there has always been a preference for a German carrier on that end, but I always saw that route in particular as a candidate for replacement by UA with a 763 under the JV. We'll see what happens.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:44 am

codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Also not sure if you would have an answer to this but I am seeing that EW is no longer selling EWR - DUS but UA and LH are. EW is also still selling all their other longhaul flights. Is this route being taken over or cancelled all together? It would be a shame to see a such a long-standing route go.


LH is making a lot of changes to the longhaul network for this summer, so I wouldn't consider anything set in stone, aside from the fact that the Eurowings longhaul flying probably won't be happening.

EWR-DUS is strong at the German point of sale, and there has always been a preference for a German carrier on that end, but I always saw that route in particular as a candidate for replacement by UA with a 763 under the JV. We'll see what happens.


Yes, I think we can all agree EW most likely won’t be operating the route but is there any reason why it would be the only route they don’t show as for sale anymore on their end?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:21 am

77W:
N2352U first flight 2581/15Apr, seems a bit odd: 3 2500 flight numbers on one day SFO-ELP-HNL-SFO routing, military charter?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:21 am

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... ing-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.

At this point, no numbers for May will shock me. What I wish I knew (and I know no one here has the crystal ball to tell me) is how much flying in July will compare to last year. That will be the test to recovery. If frequencies in July are back to 75%+, and flying in September is back to 90%+, I would say the recovery will be going well. I'm not making any guesses as to load factor.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:07 pm

cosyr wrote:
At this point, no numbers for May will shock me. What I wish I knew (and I know no one here has the crystal ball to tell me) is how much flying in July will compare to last year. That will be the test to recovery. If frequencies in July are back to 75%+, and flying in September is back to 90%+, I would say the recovery will be going well. I'm not making any guesses as to load factor.


As much as I would love to be that optimistic I really can't. Four to five weeks ago I was optimistic that the industry would be on its way to recovery by July and in full recovery by October but that is not going to happen at least not this year. Allow me to explain why my views have changed over the past 4-5 weeks.

Internationally: A lot of countries have closed their borders many of these countries are not even considering opening their borders until July at the earliest but with serious restrictions. There have also been reports suggesting that many countries may (I stress may) require visitors including tourist to carry proof that they are not COVID-19 positive. That will present many challenges because right now I'm not sure how many countries have the ability to test their entire population or at the very least the traveling population. So if countries move ahead with requiring . all entrants to carry proof they are COVID-19 negative that will impact and depress traffic.

Domestically: Unemployment is through the roof for many people discretionary spending is out because they are worried about keep a roof over their heads, keeping the lights on and food on the table. Domestically the U.S. has not had a coordinated response to this virus (that is as far as I'm going to go with that statement because I don't want to take the thread off topic). As much as I had hoped 4-5 weeks ago that the economy would be fully reopened by June/July/August it is starting to look like parts of the U.S. economy will reopen but major sections will remain closed.

One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.


I like the frankness coming out of UA. This crisis will be very hard on everyone, especially the legacy carriers. The tone and actions taken by AA and UA is quite striking. UA is being very cautious with their planning and aggressive with their cuts. At this point, operating 10% of your schedule is probably the smartest thing you can do until demand picks back up.

AA on the other hand was the slowest in reducing its schedule among the big 3 and still scheduling over 300 flights a day from Dallas. And then Doug Parker is out there on CNBC telling the world he will be looking to get around the terms of the CARES bailout and how he is seeing booking more than 3 months out. It seems like he is more worried about making investors happy than saving his airline.

My guess at this point is that both AA and UA will have to apply for additional loans from the gov't. But the burn rate at AA is probably a lot higher than both DL/UA at this point.

jayunited wrote:
[
One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.

I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:51 pm

cosyr wrote:
At this point, no numbers for May will shock me. What I wish I knew (and I know no one here has the crystal ball to tell me) is how much flying in July will compare to last year. That will be the test to recovery. If frequencies in July are back to 75%+, and flying in September is back to 90%+, I would say the recovery will be going well. I'm not making any guesses as to load factor.


Honestly, if we are at 25% in July (a 75% cut), that's a win. Right now, United is operating at about a 90-95% schedule cut with 97% less traffic, with the same most assuredly to be the case in May and similar forecasts for June. That is nothing short of DEVASTATING, and absent guidance on how the economy will reopen (which nobody can credibly offer right now, for good reason), there won't be any improvement in the demand situation. It is remarkable to see that Scott Kirby's -70% "worst case scenario" projection from the start of the crisis turned out to be completely unattainable.

Best case scenario is that the economy starts to reopen in phases during May, so traffic begins to come off the current (~97%) lows. Right now, the arrow is still pointing down. That has to reverse before we can even contemplate a recovery. Sadly, even the projections for 25-30% cuts by EOY seem optimistic.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.



You are absolutely correct even with all the steps UA and all the other airlines are taking things could still go badly depending on how deep a hole this industry is in. Before COVID-19 there was no appetite for further consolidation and we are not there yet . But the longer the industry is in this crisis we could be looking at further consolidation within the US industry in my opinion.
 
UA444
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:18 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.


I like the frankness coming out of UA. This crisis will be very hard on everyone, especially the legacy carriers. The tone and actions taken by AA and UA is quite striking. UA is being very cautious with their planning and aggressive with their cuts. At this point, operating 10% of your schedule is probably the smartest thing you can do until demand picks back up.

AA on the other hand was the slowest in reducing its schedule among the big 3 and still scheduling over 300 flights a day from Dallas. And then Doug Parker is out there on CNBC telling the world he will be looking to get around the terms of the CARES bailout and how he is seeing booking more than 3 months out. It seems like he is more worried about making investors happy than saving his airline.

My guess at this point is that both AA and UA will have to apply for additional loans from the gov't. But the burn rate at AA is probably a lot higher than both DL/UA at this point.

jayunited wrote:
[
One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.

I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.

Doug Parker is the same clown who said they’d never lose money again
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:43 pm

UA444 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-warns-staffing-cuts-to-come-as-it-slashes-may-flying-by-90/

"Plans to shrink its network by roughly 90% in May"

“We expect to fly fewer people during the entire month of May than we did on a single day in May 2019.”

“The challenging economic outlook means we have some tough decisions ahead as we plan for our airline, and our overall workforce, to be smaller than it is today, starting as early as October 1,” Munoz and Kirby said Wednesday.


I like the frankness coming out of UA. This crisis will be very hard on everyone, especially the legacy carriers. The tone and actions taken by AA and UA is quite striking. UA is being very cautious with their planning and aggressive with their cuts. At this point, operating 10% of your schedule is probably the smartest thing you can do until demand picks back up.

AA on the other hand was the slowest in reducing its schedule among the big 3 and still scheduling over 300 flights a day from Dallas. And then Doug Parker is out there on CNBC telling the world he will be looking to get around the terms of the CARES bailout and how he is seeing booking more than 3 months out. It seems like he is more worried about making investors happy than saving his airline.

My guess at this point is that both AA and UA will have to apply for additional loans from the gov't. But the burn rate at AA is probably a lot higher than both DL/UA at this point.

jayunited wrote:
[
One thing is for sure we will not be anywhere close to 75% recovery in July and/or 90% by September 2020, perhaps by July 2021 we will have recovered 75% but that number is impossible this year.

I think as this crisis has unfolded, airlines and analysts have been become steadily more pessimistic by the day. If UA is 25% smaller by July 2021, that's not a problem as long as it can be cash positive. All that debt will have to be paid back. You'd rather cut 30% and park 20% of your fleet and be making money vs adding capacity back in too quickly and ending up in the courts.

Imo, UA actually had the most headwinds going into this due to its larger international operation compared to DL/AA, but it's adjustments have been easily the best so far. Things could still end up badly, but it won't be because the management took any missteps.

Doug Parker is the same clown who said they’d never lose money again


Thank you - we were just discussing that statement yesterday.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:16 am

Given that NJ just announced we will continue the stay-at-home through May 15th, I don't see things getting any better for EWR for some time. Even then the odds on demand getting back to normal is going to be a challenge.
It will be interesting as we head into summer if some demand may be there depending on what the requirements are.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 531
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:52 am

ordbosewr wrote:
Given that NJ just announced we will continue the stay-at-home through May 15th, I don't see things getting any better for EWR for some time. Even then the odds on demand getting back to normal is going to be a challenge.
It will be interesting as we head into summer if some demand may be there depending on what the requirements are.

As other states start to open up throughout May and into June - we'll see just how willing people are to travel. People will have been stuck in their homes and most forgoing spring break vacations. People will want to get out. Just how many is the question. If there's enough deals out there - people will go.
 
Pinto
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:21 am

With Newark being in as bad if shape with the virus why doesn't UA route intl flying through IAD for the time being?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:57 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
As other states start to open up throughout May and into June - we'll see just how willing people are to travel. People will have been stuck in their homes and most forgoing spring break vacations. People will want to get out. Just how many is the question. If there's enough deals out there - people will go.


The question is get out and go where?

Canada announced yesterday an agreement with the US to extend the Canadian-US border closure except for essential travel. Many international countries have travel bans in place and many countries are looking at requiring arriving passenger to carry proof that they are COVID-19 negative. The state of Hawaii in March asked visitors to stay away. They just reiterated that message again on April 9th, and they took it a step further and the states visitors bureau is now asking travel agencies not to promote travel to the islands and asking people to rethink their summer travel plans. I think this is why UA applied for an exemption through the CARES act for certain Hawaiian Islands until September. Every person who arrives into the state must quarantine themselves for at least 14 days and the Governor has given no indication as to when that requirement will be dropped.

The cruise industry is still on hiatus and can not resume until cleared by the CDC. The CDC just last week extended the suspension of all cruising from any US port for an additional 100 days means the earliest cruises can resume is in July. Many international ports including those in the Caribbean will remain closed as well.

Then there is the lower 48 states, we know the "traditional tourist destinations" will not be open. Of the states that will be open how many of those states will be at step 2 or step 3 of the Trump Administrations Guide to Reopening the Economy. Most of the nonessential business that rakes in those tourist dollars are not allowed to open until step 3. Also at any point in time if the numbers trend in the opposite direction a state could go from step 2 back to 1 or from step 3 to step 2. Major metropolitan areas like New York, Boston, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, Orlando, Chicago, New Orleans, perhaps even Dallas, Houston, and Austin are not going to be fully open in May. If I had to guess I would say major theme parks including the most famous of them all Disney World will not be open in May or even June. For the foodies who like to go on foodcations (yes that is a word, google it, I love a good foodcation) restaurants will open if the state has met the threshold and social distancing will be required so you may not even be able to get in and take a seat.

I get what you are saying people are itching to get out but until a major portion of the country is reopen meaning at step 3 and until international countries reopen, and until testing is ramped up (may be required to travel internationally) I don't see people running to get on an airplane. Personally I think people will get out and enjoy their own community, their own city because they want to see those local business come back, they want to keep their family, friends, and neighbors employed.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:21 pm

[*]
Pinto wrote:
With Newark being in as bad if shape with the virus why doesn't UA route intl flying through IAD for the time being?


What flying? Lol.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:52 pm

789
N24979 B1 BOE354 CHSCHS 17APR... FAL is shutdown but flight testing carry's on.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3233
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:17 pm

772:
N77022 sked to exit HKG 2719/18Apr with Polaris/PP - just 48 days, probably since several mod lines closed

789:
N17963 sked to exit VCV paint 2760/18Apr, EvoBlu or touchup?? Delivered in Globe in 2016

UA now using HOU as storage location: 1 320 and 6 737s, which includes 1 or 2 737s in maint
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:24 pm

Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    Nicknuzzii
    Posts: 1302
    Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:25 pm

    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.


    I live in the area and no one has remotely thought of leaving.
     
    MohawkWeekend
    Posts: 281
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 pm

    That is good to hear. Once the world's pharmaceutical companies and research labs find effective treatments, cities/state/countries will find ways to prepare better.
      300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
       
      codc10
      Posts: 2908
      Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:38 am

      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.


      I live in the area and no one has remotely thought of leaving.


      That’s awfully conclusory... I guess that settles the matter!
       
      UAinAUS
      Posts: 242
      Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:53 am

      UAX Update:

      E75SC:
      N625UX now flying for Skywest
      N624UX at BOI for transfer to Skywest
      N601UX at BOI for transfer to Skywest
      N602UX at BOI for transfer to Skywest
       
      Nicknuzzii
      Posts: 1302
      Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:26 am

      codc10 wrote:
      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      Just throwing this out there as it might impact NYC 4 airports - are New Yorkers and New York CEO's having second thoughts about living or being headquartered in a city so vulnerable to a pandemic? You can hire extra security for terrorists - no cities have more than Washington DC and NYC. But the crowded conditions in NYC make it the most vulnerable US city for the next pandemic.


      I live in the area and no one has remotely thought of leaving.


      That’s awfully conclusory... I guess that settles the matter!


      So you know if businesses and companies that are considering leaving the capital of the world due to one little hiccup that ripped throughout the world?
       
      User avatar
      LAXintl
      Posts: 24794
      Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:04 am

      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20.

      The May international passenger schedule as follows:

      Atlantic
      EWR - AMS/FRA/LHR/TLV
      IAD - FRA
      ORD - LHR

      Pacific
      SFO - NRT/TLV

      LatAm
      EWR - BQN/SJU/STT
      IAH - BJX/GDL/GUA/GRU/MEX/MTY/SAL/SJO/TGU

      *much of the Latin service is less than daily
      From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
       
      Nicknuzzii
      Posts: 1302
      Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:04 pm

      LAXintl wrote:
      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20.

      The May international passenger schedule as follows:

      Atlantic
      EWR - AMS/FRA/LHR/TLV
      IAD - FRA
      ORD - LHR

      Pacific
      SFO - NRT/TLV

      LatAm
      EWR - BQN/SJU/STT
      IAH - BJX/GDL/GUA/GRU/MEX/MTY/SAL/SJO/TGU

      *much of the Latin service is less than daily


      If possible could you provide a list of the routes that won’t operate?
       
      United1
      Posts: 4194
      Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:04 pm

      LAXintl wrote:
      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20.

      The May international passenger schedule as follows:

      Atlantic
      EWR - AMS/FRA/LHR/TLV
      IAD - FRA
      ORD - LHR

      Pacific
      SFO - NRT/TLV

      LatAm
      EWR - BQN/SJU/STT
      IAH - BJX/GDL/GUA/GRU/MEX/MTY/SAL/SJO/TGU

      *much of the Latin service is less than daily


      One minor correction SFO-NRT/SYD not TLV..:)
      I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
       
      CriticalPoint
      Posts: 1062
      Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:30 pm

      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      LAXintl wrote:
      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20.

      The May international passenger schedule as follows:

      Atlantic
      EWR - AMS/FRA/LHR/TLV
      IAD - FRA
      ORD - LHR

      Pacific
      SFO - NRT/TLV

      LatAm
      EWR - BQN/SJU/STT
      IAH - BJX/GDL/GUA/GRU/MEX/MTY/SAL/SJO/TGU

      *much of the Latin service is less than daily


      If possible could you provide a list of the routes that won’t operate?



      Everything that isn’t listed above isn’t operating......
       
      Nicknuzzii
      Posts: 1302
      Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:35 pm

      CriticalPoint wrote:
      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      LAXintl wrote:
      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20.

      The May international passenger schedule as follows:

      Atlantic
      EWR - AMS/FRA/LHR/TLV
      IAD - FRA
      ORD - LHR

      Pacific
      SFO - NRT/TLV

      LatAm
      EWR - BQN/SJU/STT
      IAH - BJX/GDL/GUA/GRU/MEX/MTY/SAL/SJO/TGU

      *much of the Latin service is less than daily


      If possible could you provide a list of the routes that won’t operate?



      Everything that isn’t listed above isn’t operating......


      I meant the routes that won’t be flying at all this summer.
       
      CriticalPoint
      Posts: 1062
      Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:40 pm

      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      CriticalPoint wrote:
      Nicknuzzii wrote:

      If possible could you provide a list of the routes that won’t operate?



      Everything that isn’t listed above isn’t operating......


      I meant the routes that won’t be flying at all this summer.


      Everything I saw that was for sure was secondary Europe.
       
      codc10
      Posts: 2908
      Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:16 pm

      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      codc10 wrote:
      Nicknuzzii wrote:

      I live in the area and no one has remotely thought of leaving.


      That’s awfully conclusory... I guess that settles the matter!


      So you know if businesses and companies that are considering leaving the capital of the world due to one little hiccup that ripped throughout the world?


      That is about the most nonsensical characterization of this crisis I have read. Thanks for the laugh.

      As far as companies considering changing the way they do business in New York City because of the pandemic? Especially in financial services, law and other professional businesses where, historically, large concentrations of staff are brought in to one place at a time, despite being able to substantially replicate the same functions at home or elsewhere? It happened after 9/11, and I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this same process is happening again. I'm involved in it.

      To bring this back to the airline industry, as an example to answer your question, watch JetBlue (though that is a longer-term trend and primarily due to cost savings).
      Last edited by codc10 on Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
       
      x1234
      Posts: 942
      Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:21 pm

      The majority of cargo demand out of China is HKG & PVG due to the PPE need. I think UA still serves PVG & HKG via NRT.
       
      Nicknuzzii
      Posts: 1302
      Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:00 pm

      codc10 wrote:
      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      codc10 wrote:

      That’s awfully conclusory... I guess that settles the matter!


      So you know if businesses and companies that are considering leaving the capital of the world due to one little hiccup that ripped throughout the world?


      That is about the most nonsensical characterization of this crisis I have read. Thanks for the laugh.

      As far as companies considering changing the way they do business in New York City because of the pandemic? Especially in financial services, law and other professional businesses where, historically, large concentrations of staff are brought in to one place at a time, despite being able to substantially replicate the same functions at home or elsewhere? It happened after 9/11, and I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this same process is happening again. I'm involved in it.

      To bring this back to the airline industry, as an example to answer your question, watch JetBlue (though that is a longer-term trend and primarily due to cost savings).


      There is a pretty big difference you are forgetting about. The whole world was affected by Covid-19 but during the 9/11 attacks NYC was singled out. If you are saying people and companies will move out of high risk places than Italy, Germany, France, Spain, China, UK, and the USA are all doomed.
       
      United1
      Posts: 4194
      Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:13 pm

      x1234 wrote:
      The majority of cargo demand out of China is HKG & PVG due to the PPE need. I think UA still serves PVG & HKG via NRT.


      Yes with cargo only flights. The flights that LAXint and others have listed are passenger service.
      I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
       
      mcg
      Posts: 1109
      Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:54 pm

      horsepowerchef wrote:
      jayunited wrote:
      ericm2031 wrote:
      Do we know if they are only loading cargo into the cargo pits or are they loading cargo into seats as we've seen some other carriers doing? Same question for the AA flights, is this something allowed by the FAA or only in some foreign countries? Is DL doing any cargo-only flights?



      I don't see UA going as far as removing seats from aircraft to carry cargo. An empty passenger compartment on a 77W flying to Europe from ORD, IAH, or EWR means an airline could potentially carry around 100,000 pounds perhaps even 110,000 pounds of cargo in the belly depending on the fuel requirements. Also keep in mind UA because we are only using a small portion of our fleet as cargo charters we need to turn these aircraft in Europe fairly quickly. Loading individual boxes in the passengers cabin and having employees walk these pieces up and down stairs slows down the turn around time and there is the potential for employees to get injured since they wouldn't be able to hold on to the handrails while entering and exiting the cabin of a 77W or 789.


      yea, thats completely out of the question...loading +50,000lbs of freight by hand would take ages and probably incur injuries...let alone, Im pretty sure the plane would need to have its cabin floor reinforced...


      FWIW here's OS loading cargo into the seats of a 777:

      https://twitter.com/_austrian/status/12 ... 3772539904
       
      User avatar
      yeogeo
      Posts: 1531
      Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:22 pm

      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      LAXintl wrote:
      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20...


      If possible could you provide a list of the routes that won’t operate?


      This was published today (4/18):
      https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200418
       
      Nicknuzzii
      Posts: 1302
      Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:06 pm

      yeogeo wrote:
      Nicknuzzii wrote:
      LAXintl wrote:
      Updated May international schedule revealed. Pretty much everything scheduled to resume in May was pushed back to June. Also 21 routes will not operate at all for S20...


      If possible could you provide a list of the routes that won’t operate?


      This was published today (4/18):
      https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200418


      Thank you.
       
      User avatar
      intotheair
      Posts: 1897
      Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:56 am

      Very interesting. As I predicted, SFO-CDG won't fly this summer (resumes 24 Oct). I'm surprised to see SFO-AMS/DUB/ZRH not only come back, but also in time for part of the summer. I guess I could have booked that SFO-ZRH flight I was thinking about after all.
      300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
      AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
       
      User avatar
      AVENSAB727
      Posts: 1400
      Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:02 am

      Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

      Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:01 am

      IAH-AMS won’t restart till 24 October, this surprised me. FRA/MUC/LHR start back up in June.
      Always look on the bright side of Life!

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