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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 6:06 pm

x1234 wrote:
It seems to me UA is best positioned internationally with the new 787's but the old fleet still has problems on TCONs. Maybe UA should order the A321XLR?


UA has 50 of those aicraft on order scheduled to start delivery in 2025.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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Continental767
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 6:28 pm

Apparently UA already has the new seats on order for the 764s, and they are incredibly profitable. I highly doubt that they are goners.
Indianapolis.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 6:42 pm

x1234 wrote:
It seems to me UA is best positioned internationally with the new 787's but the old fleet still has problems on TCONs. Maybe UA should order the A321XLR?

They did in December: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... nsion.html
 
sdh9
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 7:46 pm

airplanedriver6 wrote:

It would take YEARS to retrain 5000 pilots with the United pilot training center running at full capacity. And that's not even considering that there are many instructor pilots in the bottom third of the list that would also have to be replaced. FWIW, a pilot can be trained on a new aircraft in about two months between the time in the training center and flying the line with a check airman (IOE).


I agree with most of what you said but you are assuming a full training cycle. The company has designed this bid to maximize short training cycles, like going left seat of the 320 to right seat. I am not an instructor but it’s my understanding that there is also a Boeing to Boeing cycle to handle the bumps from 777 to 756 and 756 to 737. It’s possible that a very high percentage of the training events will not be full cycles.

That being said, I would be shocked if this amount of training could be wrapped up in anything shorter than a year. Also, for most pilots their pay drops on a displacement when they pop the brake on their first IOE trip, so it’s in the company’s best interest to get this going if they want to save money.

There are ways to cancel displacements, of course, but the company must be reasonably sure of future events to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to eventually save a few billions. If they are wrong, this is a very expensive process to undo.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 8:38 pm

The 764 is beyond overrated. There is a reason only two airlines ordered it and why none of them are flying currently while a few 763s soldier on. The 788 also seats only 3 more passengers and can fly farther and burn less fuel. You can easily dump the sub fleet that only has 16 planes and has the oddball GE engines and not have to spend $$$ retrofit them either to Polaris. The 763 is far harder to replace and why DL and UA will likely fly most of them for the foreseeable future.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 9:06 pm

As I posted earlier, in a recent TechOps note it was mentioned the company as of late April had placed 207 aircraft into "prolonged storage", and 104 additional ones were waiting to be placed into such storage. This is beyond the hundreds of frames parked at many stations which are in "active storage" and can return to service faster when demand picks ups.
The note mentioned criteria for prolonged storage included - network planning determining low likelihood needing aircraft this year, upcoming heavy checks, engine and APU time limitations, desire to avoid CapEx projects like cabin and other tech upgrades.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 10:15 pm

UA444. You've bashed the 764 on on this thread before and promoted the more orphan, smaller, high-cycled 752PW fleet. I'm wondering if you have stock in Pratt and Whittney. The 764 was at the end of the 767 program and was built for CO/DL to replace DC10's and L-1011s. If earlier in the program undoubted it would have sold more and then there was that minor blip called 9/11 the affected the industry for years. Let me guarantee you CO wished they would have bought more 764's or some 763s instead of the too short 762.

763s are a great airplane, but UA's split fleet of 21 1992/3 builds are getting way up there in time in comparison to the 14 1998/2000 builds plus 3 newer ExHA birds. The 2000/02 764s are newer and probably have lower cycles per year due to mostly TransAtlantic operations. In hindsight everything is clearer, but I'm sure UA wished they would have Polarised the 764s instead of the 1991/3 763s.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 10:41 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
UA444. You've bashed the 764 on on this thread before and promoted the more orphan, smaller, high-cycled 752PW fleet. I'm wondering if you have stock in Pratt and Whittney. The 764 was at the end of the 767 program and was built for CO/DL to replace DC10's and L-1011s. If earlier in the program undoubted it would have sold more and then there was that minor blip called 9/11 the affected the industry for years. Let me guarantee you CO wished they would have bought more 764's or some 763s instead of the too short 762.

763s are a great airplane, but UA's split fleet of 21 1992/3 builds are getting way up there in time in comparison to the 14 1998/2000 builds plus 3 newer ExHA birds. The 2000/02 764s are newer and probably have lower cycles per year due to mostly TransAtlantic operations. In hindsight everything is clearer, but I'm sure UA wished they would have Polarised the 764s instead of the 1991/3 763s.

No, I don’t have PW stock and I think it’s pretty apparent at this point that the PW 757s and even other 757s won’t come back, despite optimism I had in March that this would blow over. The hoopla over this virus has absolutely tanked our economy and it’s hard to see any sort of recovery in the next year. There will be planes that have lots of life yet that don’t come back.

As for the 764, well timing is everything. If it had entered service in 1993 it probably would’ve sold “better“, but it didn’t and only 38 were built and airlines like JAL, LAN, ANA, and a few others ordered 767s and even 772s into the late 2000s and early 2010s and didn’t see the need for the 764, a plane compromised in part due to the fact a requirement was that it had to be able to replace DC-10s and L1011’s at LGA.

Had the 764 already been retrofitted I can see them sticking around, but none have Polaris, and then you have the cost of certification for the new seats and the CapEx required to do so when airlines bleeding money, and it isn’t hard to see why it’s a major cut candidate. Plus, as hard as it is to believe, some are already 20 years old and the 787-8 is close enough in numbers and capacity to the 764 that a lot of its missions can be back filled by it, where as the 767-300ER is a more unique size and harder to replace (which is why they explored ordering new ones a few years ago). Do I think all 21 of the 64xx 763s survive this? No, and it’s likely they’ll have to write down those expenses in future quarters, but it’s easier to see more of the 763s sticking around in the near future that can’t be easily replaced and have already sunk money into, vs the 764 that can have all of its roles replaced by displaced 763s or 788s.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 10:48 pm

sdh9 wrote:
airplanedriver6 wrote:

It would take YEARS to retrain 5000 pilots with the United pilot training center running at full capacity. And that's not even considering that there are many instructor pilots in the bottom third of the list that would also have to be replaced. FWIW, a pilot can be trained on a new aircraft in about two months between the time in the training center and flying the line with a check airman (IOE).


I agree with most of what you said but you are assuming a full training cycle. The company has designed this bid to maximize short training cycles, like going left seat of the 320 to right seat. I am not an instructor but it’s my understanding that there is also a Boeing to Boeing cycle to handle the bumps from 777 to 756 and 756 to 737. It’s possible that a very high percentage of the training events will not be full cycles.

That being said, I would be shocked if this amount of training could be wrapped up in anything shorter than a year. Also, for most pilots their pay drops on a displacement when they pop the brake on their first IOE trip, so it’s in the company’s best interest to get this going if they want to save money.

There are ways to cancel displacements, of course, but the company must be reasonably sure of future events to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to eventually save a few billions. If they are wrong, this is a very expensive process to undo.


There is no Boeing to Boeing short course but there is a 787-777 short course.

4000 pilots will not be furloughed. The reason that number is so big on this bid is because they wanted to eliminate the bump game......and they succeeded l.

Look at the min max numbers. They have staffed SFO 787 for single augment only, they left 7 FOs in the IAH 756, there are more CAs than FOs in nearly all bases.

What you will see is massive amounts of 787 FOs in LAX go to SFO and the company will accept them. They will accept the pilots that bid into the 756.....etc. United will furlough on OCT 1st but how many isn’t yet clear but it will certainly not be 4000-5000.
 
UA857
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Why didn't United not paint any Domestic 763s and 772 in the Rising Blue colors

Mon May 04, 2020 5:54 am

Is there a reason why United's Domestic Ghetto Bird 763s and Hawaii configured 772 skipped the Rising Blue livery and were directly repainted from the Battleship Grey livery to the Continental Globe livery and only the International 763s and 772s got the Rising Blue colors?
 
KFTG
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 6:41 am

No, there was no reason.
 
GoSharks
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 8:44 am

UA444 wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
UA444. You've bashed the 764 on on this thread before and promoted the more orphan, smaller, high-cycled 752PW fleet. I'm wondering if you have stock in Pratt and Whittney. The 764 was at the end of the 767 program and was built for CO/DL to replace DC10's and L-1011s. If earlier in the program undoubted it would have sold more and then there was that minor blip called 9/11 the affected the industry for years. Let me guarantee you CO wished they would have bought more 764's or some 763s instead of the too short 762.

763s are a great airplane, but UA's split fleet of 21 1992/3 builds are getting way up there in time in comparison to the 14 1998/2000 builds plus 3 newer ExHA birds. The 2000/02 764s are newer and probably have lower cycles per year due to mostly TransAtlantic operations. In hindsight everything is clearer, but I'm sure UA wished they would have Polarised the 764s instead of the 1991/3 763s.

No, I don’t have PW stock and I think it’s pretty apparent at this point that the PW 757s and even other 757s won’t come back, despite optimism I had in March that this would blow over. The hoopla over this virus has absolutely tanked our economy and it’s hard to see any sort of recovery in the next year. There will be planes that have lots of life yet that don’t come back.

As for the 764, well timing is everything. If it had entered service in 1993 it probably would’ve sold “better“, but it didn’t and only 38 were built and airlines like JAL, LAN, ANA, and a few others ordered 767s and even 772s into the late 2000s and early 2010s and didn’t see the need for the 764, a plane compromised in part due to the fact a requirement was that it had to be able to replace DC-10s and L1011’s at LGA.

Had the 764 already been retrofitted I can see them sticking around, but none have Polaris, and then you have the cost of certification for the new seats and the CapEx required to do so when airlines bleeding money, and it isn’t hard to see why it’s a major cut candidate. Plus, as hard as it is to believe, some are already 20 years old and the 787-8 is close enough in numbers and capacity to the 764 that a lot of its missions can be back filled by it, where as the 767-300ER is a more unique size and harder to replace (which is why they explored ordering new ones a few years ago). Do I think all 21 of the 64xx 763s survive this? No, and it’s likely they’ll have to write down those expenses in future quarters, but it’s easier to see more of the 763s sticking around in the near future that can’t be easily replaced and have already sunk money into, vs the 764 that can have all of its roles replaced by displaced 763s or 788s.

39J to 28J is a pretty big difference. Now, obviously the market is changed, but the planes were configured for two totally different markets.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 12:18 pm

The problem with the 764 is that it has too many unique attributes. Special gear based on 777 design. Special flight deck with 777 components and not used on another high volume 767. In UA’s case, the only CF6 on property. All of these increase execution risk and therefore cost. While the frame itself is efficient, it doesn’t fit within synergies of a large organization.

Stick a fork in most 777HDs (mid 90’s). Those only make sense on Hawaii service from IAH/ORD/DEN/SFO (maxed with cargo).

The 753 is a similar story. Good economics when flying. Stranger. Not worth the time and effort without a large 752 fleet as well.

I think most interesting will be what happens on the narrow bodies. Retirements will happen, especially as MAX’s are delivered. *What* retires first will be most interesting. Early IAE powered Airbuses? Early CFM 737’s? Will the A319/737 size stick around in numbers (Meaning A320’s / 738’s retired) or will the smallest get the whack.

In the booming economy, the small incremental cost of the 738/A320 was considered trivial and easily covered by revenue management practices.

With a contracted market, those 5-6% cost savings can add up, and I’ve always wonder if the engine maintenance factor was properly accounted for. Due to their lower trust, they don’t deteriorate as quickly (fuel savings) and can last longer before overhaul. I suppose in large fleets those smaller birds for the longest time engines off the heavier-worked frames.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 3:35 pm

Interesting storage update:
UA is operating just 5 739s, 18 738s and zero 752s/753s
Seems like more Airbuses, espectially 319s are being flown - operating 32 319s and 23 320s
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm

What that says is that they don't need seat capacity per flight - the 10% avg load factors they have mentioned.
 
windy95
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 5:07 pm

ryanflyer wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
A pilot posted that the 757s are gone, anyone got any update on this?


I saw that too, and ran that by a reliable source who said that is false. No retirements have been called yet in the 757 fleet, not even the P&W birds.


The 757's have more than likely flown their last revenue flight for United. It should be just a matter of time before the official announcements for the 757/767/777 retirements.
 
windy95
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 5:11 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
For what its worth, I'm posting on the UA Fleet Site an aircraft as stored if it is in ROW/GYR/HOU/DLH/LCQ/RFD/INT or if it is parked for 14 days or more at a UA airport. TPA & MIA does a lot of maint, so who knows if an aircraft parked is in for maint, short term parking or stored.

Maybe someone could let us know with more details.
Some narrows are parked for more than 14 days at SEA, PDX and PHX.,
Using the 14 day minimum (plus stored airports),
Wide
76L, 764, 788 and 772ER fleets are entirely parked.
763A has 11 of 17 stored, 772Domestic 15 of 23
789, 78X and 77W fleets are very active
Narrow
739Non-ER and 752GE fleets all stored
Balance of narrow bodies have about 260 stored, 450 parked and 110 in operation. 752 is the most stored with only 4% of the fleet in operation.


There are no stored aircraft in TPA or MIA/FLL. Those would be the aircraft that are still at a vendors awaiting to be finished. The OSV's are not receiving any new aircraft.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 5:24 pm

windy95 wrote:
ryanflyer wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
A pilot posted that the 757s are gone, anyone got any update on this?


I saw that too, and ran that by a reliable source who said that is false. No retirements have been called yet in the 757 fleet, not even the P&W birds.


The 757's have more than likely flown their last revenue flight for United. It should be just a matter of time before the official announcements for the 757/767/777 retirements.


The addition of the 7x 78J's announced should further the retirement you suggest. With 15 787's coming on in 18 months or so at UA, and no demand, something's bound to leave.

757's - MAX 9/10 + 321XLR (a few years off) - plenty of capacity.
77A's x 23 planned a/c - 78J's can do long haul Hawaii flying with the same capacity
772's - GE Do you ditch all those newly retrofitted Polaris a/c? Wow, that's a lot of $ flushed. Keep the PMCO GE fleet as it's newer?
772's - PW Do you ditch all those newly retrofitted Polaris a/c? Wow, that's a lot of $ flushed.
77W - these are a keeper, right?
 
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KVH68
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 5:25 pm

windy95 wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
For what its worth, I'm posting on the UA Fleet Site an aircraft as stored if it is in ROW/GYR/HOU/DLH/LCQ/RFD/INT or if it is parked for 14 days or more at a UA airport. TPA & MIA does a lot of maint, so who knows if an aircraft parked is in for maint, short term parking or stored.

Maybe someone could let us know with more details.
Some narrows are parked for more than 14 days at SEA, PDX and PHX.,
Using the 14 day minimum (plus stored airports),
Wide
76L, 764, 788 and 772ER fleets are entirely parked.
763A has 11 of 17 stored, 772Domestic 15 of 23
789, 78X and 77W fleets are very active
Narrow
739Non-ER and 752GE fleets all stored
Balance of narrow bodies have about 260 stored, 450 parked and 110 in operation. 752 is the most stored with only 4% of the fleet in operation.


There are no stored aircraft in TPA or MIA/FLL. Those would be the aircraft that are still at a vendors awaiting to be finished. The OSV's are not receiving any new aircraft.


TPA:
0213 stored
0227 stored
0260 stored
0290 stored
0421 stored
0432 stored
0438 stored
0803 stored
0881 stored

MIA:
0449 stored
0453 stored
0817 stored
0846 stored
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 5:34 pm

The two 'her paint' 752s, are not in storage and fly out every now and then. Flew 102 or 106 MCO-IAD Apr 23rd. They have been sitting at the gate the last few days.

A union memo.....
"UAL does expect 16 737-MAX this year and 24 next year (assuming ungrounded), eight more 787-9 this year and eight 787-10 next year."
You are here.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 7:11 pm

windy95 wrote:
ryanflyer wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
A pilot posted that the 757s are gone, anyone got any update on this?


I saw that too, and ran that by a reliable source who said that is false. No retirements have been called yet in the 757 fleet, not even the P&W birds.


The 757's have more than likely flown their last revenue flight for United. It should be just a matter of time before the official announcements for the 757/767/777 retirements.

It is way too soon to say something like that. They fly some routes in Europe that would arguably be better served with 752's than larger aircraft until demand picks up again. 321XLR's aren't here until 2025. UA is not just going to abandon all of those markets for 5 years. And, when business travel (the most profitable travel) begins to return in future months, they will want the PS flights resumed. The fleet will shrink, but I highly doubt that no 752's will return to service for UA.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 7:29 pm

I don't understand why 757s need to be back in service. AA is already retiring both 757 and 767s. I assume DL is not going to retire all of 757s, but maybe all the 300s. Demand for international flight will be down for 2 or 3 years at least. We are not that far away from XLR time. Given the cost of re-training and bring back all the 757/767 fleet and pilots, is there enough benefit to add back all that cost. I would assume that at some point, MAX 10 will be able to enter service, even if that's not 2021. Until then, you can put more 787s on these routes and operate them at lower frequency.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 7:41 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't understand why 757s need to be back in service. AA is already retiring both 757 and 767s. I assume DL is not going to retire all of 757s, but maybe all the 300s. Demand for international flight will be down for 2 or 3 years at least. We are not that far away from XLR time. Given the cost of re-training and bring back all the 757/767 fleet and pilots, is there enough benefit to add back all that cost. I would assume that at some point, MAX 10 will be able to enter service, even if that's not 2021. Until then, you can put more 787s on these routes and operate them at lower frequency.


Training back into your old equipment is quick and doesn’t cost much. It’s a short course up until 60 months.

Also United can choose to cance displacement LS and grandfather crews back into the fleet of demand begins to return.
 
nonrevelite
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 8:00 pm

KVH68 wrote:
Does anyone know the progress of the new United hangar at LAX? They broke ground on March 2019, and it was supposed to be finished this year. When I look at the satellite image on Google Maps, I don't see any new construction. Here is a link with more details about the project.

https://www.lawa.org/en/lawa-our-lax/en ... aintenance


Construction of the hangar is continuing as I type this. It is slated to be completed next year, the link is a little out of date.
Airlines : 6E 9W AA AC AI AM AQ AT B6 BA BR CI CM CO CX EA EK ET EY FL GF GF HA HP HX JQ K2 K6 KA KE KL KU LO MA MH N7 NH NW OV OZ PE PI QF QR RJ SG TG TK UA UH UL US VS WN YT ZK
Aircraft : Over 60 types including the B-17
Airports : Over 150
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 8:06 pm

As long as United is charging 2 - 2.5 x that AA is charging in our market, I don't see how their traffic is going to recover anytime. Is your market area seeing the same issue? (SHV)

Also, when they chop hub-hub flying down to one flight (see DEN-IAH on May 23rd - and yes, I know it is a holiday weekend) there are so many broken connections in the system now that even if you did want to go somewhere UAL has given up on getting you there with the 2 connection strategy.

Until more states start to ease restrictions on dining/working, United is going to have very tough sledding. I wish them the best, but even more so, I wish the employees and their families that the rebound will be swift.
 
UA444
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Re: Why didn't United not paint any Domestic 763s and 772 in the Rising Blue colors

Mon May 04, 2020 8:30 pm

UA857 wrote:
Is there a reason why United's Domestic Ghetto Bird 763s and Hawaii configured 772 skipped the Rising Blue livery and were directly repainted from the Battleship Grey livery to the Continental Globe livery and only the International 763s and 772s got the Rising Blue colors?

The domestic ones were newer and didn’t need paint as soon as the other ones did. A UA employee actually posted a paint schedule before the merger on this site that listed them to be painted in 3Q 2010 but that obviously didn’t happen.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:23 am

sldispatcher wrote:
As long as United is charging 2 - 2.5 x that AA is charging in our market, I don't see how their traffic is going to recover anytime. Is your market area seeing the same issue? (SHV)

Also, when they chop hub-hub flying down to one flight (see DEN-IAH on May 23rd - and yes, I know it is a holiday weekend) there are so many broken connections in the system now that even if you did want to go somewhere UAL has given up on getting you there with the 2 connection strategy.

Until more states start to ease restrictions on dining/working, United is going to have very tough sledding. I wish them the best, but even more so, I wish the employees and their families that the rebound will be swift.


Pricing is out of the window, there is no demans... what is the difference in United not selling a seat at $500 round trip and American not selling a trip at $300?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:43 am

There is essentially zero price elasticity in the market today. Even Gary Kelly at Southwest says pricing does not count today so there is no reason to lower prices.

The airline pricing departments have essentially taken the month off so whatever you see out there are really place holder fares that no one really expects to sell many of.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 5:27 am

That is my point. At least it looks like American is trying to hold the DFW hub together. The IAH hub feeder spokes in June are being ripped to shreds.
Reminds me of route planning towards the end of the Delta era at DFW.

I’m hoping this next weekend will bring more states to open things up and give people confidence to book again. UAL needs all the help it can get.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 9:37 am

sldispatcher wrote:
That is my point. At least it looks like American is trying to hold the DFW hub together. The IAH hub feeder spokes in June are being ripped to shreds.
Reminds me of route planning towards the end of the Delta era at DFW.

I’m hoping this next weekend will bring more states to open things up and give people confidence to book again. UAL needs all the help it can get.

Have you looked at aa and ua cash burn rate. Aa is heading into an unavoidable chapter 11 situation.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 1:16 pm

What are the odds UA parts ways with some 787s and 77Ws? It may seem counterintuitive, but UA did shed a handful of newer 744s and 77Es during Ch 11.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 1:20 pm

intotheair wrote:
What are the odds UA parts ways with some 787s and 77Ws? It may seem counterintuitive, but UA did shed a handful of newer 744s and 77Es during Ch 11.


Those were bankruptcy-related lease rejections/returns, administered by the court, and only works if the lessor can place the aircraft elsewhere to generate a better return. Not a likely scenario now with globally depressed demand and UA (so far) out of bankruptcy.
 
joeljack
Posts: 649
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 1:36 pm

As the country is opening up, I made a couple calls to 3 friends and a relative that are are either a 1K or GS to see what there travel plans are and found out some startling, very concerning information. Below:

United Global Service member based in Austin: Needs to go to SFO a few times in June but over all, not going to be traveling much. United has no nonstops to SFO right now loaded and he said he will probably wait til a week before to book and he said he will be flying Alaska vs United if United doesn't load and nonstops because Alaska still has a nonstop (assuming they operate it). He said it will be his first time on Alaska.

United 1K in Houston: manages a construction site in Omaha...flies back and forth every week, even during covid to manage job site. United has cancelled so many flights he hasn't even been able to connect the last several weeks, gave up on United and has been flying American through Dallas lately instead. He is very mad at United for booking flights through DEN or ORD and cancelled all their flights on several days with zero options even with long layovers to get back and forth. He said American has cancelled some flights but still seems to be operating several flights a day between Dallas and both Houston and Omaha and hasn't been an issue. He had all his flights booked for June, united just pulled their schedule to eliminate OMA-IAH for June this past weekend. Spent Sunday on phone with United arguing and cancelling the flights. Said he will be re-booking with American.

United 1K in Omaha: Needs to go to Newark mid-June to receive a high dollar international shipment. Tried to book OMA-EWR Sunday and can't even get there with a connection in Chicago. She is super mad and has been a United loyalist. I suggested to try WN, she hates WN and said she would rather drive. lol. She said she'll probably end up on either American or Delta as the trip isn't an option but has to go.

United 1K in Omaha: In financial sector and was looking to get has travel back in order for June...also said flights are so limited with only a single flight a day to ORD from Omaha in June that he can't get any roundtrips to even price out and if they do, they have a super long layover. He said he will be looking at other airlines this week. Note all said they plan on flying in July too but none will be looking to book anything for several weeks until schedules finalize.

That said, out of the 4 1k/GS friends I spoke to Sunday night and last night, really none are booking United and all 4 are going to be traveling in June. Seems like most are waiting til last few weeks to book to make sure schedules are finalized as stuff has changed so much but if there is nothing to book, will need to book with other airlines.

My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.

If United doesn't add flights for June or start flying a reasonable schedule that allows for connections, other airlines will gain big time over United. and United loads will stay anemic.

As a side note, I'm a United Platinum, Iowa based, I don't know when I will fly next. Probably late June or July but won't be booking anytime soon.

Thoughts?
 
UALifer
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:35 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:03 pm

joeljack wrote:
As the country is opening up, I made a couple calls to 3 friends and a relative that are are either a 1K or GS to see what there travel plans are and found out some startling, very concerning information. Below:

United Global Service member based in Austin: Needs to go to SFO a few times in June but over all, not going to be traveling much. United has no nonstops to SFO right now loaded and he said he will probably wait til a week before to book and he said he will be flying Alaska vs United if United doesn't load and nonstops because Alaska still has a nonstop (assuming they operate it). He said it will be his first time on Alaska.

United 1K in Houston: manages a construction site in Omaha...flies back and forth every week, even during covid to manage job site. United has cancelled so many flights he hasn't even been able to connect the last several weeks, gave up on United and has been flying American through Dallas lately instead. He is very mad at United for booking flights through DEN or ORD and cancelled all their flights on several days with zero options even with long layovers to get back and forth. He said American has cancelled some flights but still seems to be operating several flights a day between Dallas and both Houston and Omaha and hasn't been an issue. He had all his flights booked for June, united just pulled their schedule to eliminate OMA-IAH for June this past weekend. Spent Sunday on phone with United arguing and cancelling the flights. Said he will be re-booking with American.

United 1K in Omaha: Needs to go to Newark mid-June to receive a high dollar international shipment. Tried to book OMA-EWR Sunday and can't even get there with a connection in Chicago. She is super mad and has been a United loyalist. I suggested to try WN, she hates WN and said she would rather drive. lol. She said she'll probably end up on either American or Delta as the trip isn't an option but has to go.

United 1K in Omaha: In financial sector and was looking to get has travel back in order for June...also said flights are so limited with only a single flight a day to ORD from Omaha in June that he can't get any roundtrips to even price out and if they do, they have a super long layover. He said he will be looking at other airlines this week. Note all said they plan on flying in July too but none will be looking to book anything for several weeks until schedules finalize.

That said, out of the 4 1k/GS friends I spoke to Sunday night and last night, really none are booking United and all 4 are going to be traveling in June. Seems like most are waiting til last few weeks to book to make sure schedules are finalized as stuff has changed so much but if there is nothing to book, will need to book with other airlines.

My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.

If United doesn't add flights for June or start flying a reasonable schedule that allows for connections, other airlines will gain big time over United. and United loads will stay anemic.

As a side note, I'm a United Platinum, Iowa based, I don't know when I will fly next. Probably late June or July but won't be booking anytime soon.

Thoughts?


Well I can’t really say much for the first two, though Alaska has only been operating a handful (~15) daily flights at SFO, so I seriously doubt they’ll be offering a nonstop to AUS in June. The two in OMA are full of it though.

United just redesigned their schedule in May to improve connections and will be implementing similar changes for June either this weekend or next. Most of the hubs ran roughly a 30% seat factor yesterday with this new schedule so I’m not sure why everyone is so down on the United schedule.

There are currently two daily flights OMA-ORD and OMA-DEN, both of which line up with the “mega banks” that have been built in each hub, and both of which offer 45-60 minute connections to anywhere they want to go.

For example, OMA-EWR via ORD:

OMA 0630 ORD 0811
ORD 0920 EWR 1224

OMA 1515 ORD 1658
ORD 1745 EWR 2055

Even your friend who wants to go IAH-OMA should not have much longer than a 1 hour layover in ORD or DEN, though he’s right that it’s a bit out of the way versus going through DFW.
 
hiflyeras
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:14 pm

UALifer wrote:
Well I can’t really say much for the first two, though Alaska has only been operating a handful (~15) daily flights at SFO, so I seriously doubt they’ll be offering a nonstop to AUS in June. The two in OMA are full of it though..


The AS schedule for June is very likely the schedule you're seeing now for May...1x daily SFO-AUS. I don't believe AS is going to be cutting any more than they already have. That said, who knows what tomorrow holds.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:18 pm

joeljack wrote:
As the country is opening up, I made a couple calls to 3 friends and a relative that are are either a 1K or GS to see what there travel plans are and found out some startling, very concerning information. Below:

United Global Service member based in Austin: Needs to go to SFO a few times in June but over all, not going to be traveling much. United has no nonstops to SFO right now loaded and he said he will probably wait til a week before to book and he said he will be flying Alaska vs United if United doesn't load and nonstops because Alaska still has a nonstop (assuming they operate it). He said it will be his first time on Alaska.

United 1K in Houston: manages a construction site in Omaha...flies back and forth every week, even during covid to manage job site. United has cancelled so many flights he hasn't even been able to connect the last several weeks, gave up on United and has been flying American through Dallas lately instead. He is very mad at United for booking flights through DEN or ORD and cancelled all their flights on several days with zero options even with long layovers to get back and forth. He said American has cancelled some flights but still seems to be operating several flights a day between Dallas and both Houston and Omaha and hasn't been an issue. He had all his flights booked for June, united just pulled their schedule to eliminate OMA-IAH for June this past weekend. Spent Sunday on phone with United arguing and cancelling the flights. Said he will be re-booking with American.

United 1K in Omaha: Needs to go to Newark mid-June to receive a high dollar international shipment. Tried to book OMA-EWR Sunday and can't even get there with a connection in Chicago. She is super mad and has been a United loyalist. I suggested to try WN, she hates WN and said she would rather drive. lol. She said she'll probably end up on either American or Delta as the trip isn't an option but has to go.

United 1K in Omaha: In financial sector and was looking to get has travel back in order for June...also said flights are so limited with only a single flight a day to ORD from Omaha in June that he can't get any roundtrips to even price out and if they do, they have a super long layover. He said he will be looking at other airlines this week. Note all said they plan on flying in July too but none will be looking to book anything for several weeks until schedules finalize.

That said, out of the 4 1k/GS friends I spoke to Sunday night and last night, really none are booking United and all 4 are going to be traveling in June. Seems like most are waiting til last few weeks to book to make sure schedules are finalized as stuff has changed so much but if there is nothing to book, will need to book with other airlines.

My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.

If United doesn't add flights for June or start flying a reasonable schedule that allows for connections, other airlines will gain big time over United. and United loads will stay anemic.

As a side note, I'm a United Platinum, Iowa based, I don't know when I will fly next. Probably late June or July but won't be booking anytime soon.

Thoughts?


Anecdotal of course, but from my few travel experiences in the past 2 months or so and the folks I’ve talked to, the problem seems to be the regional flights, which would probably make sense for your OMA friends.

At first mainline was doing a ton of close in cancels as well, but they’ve finally reduced schedules enough that they largely seem to operate everything. Can’t say the same for my regional flights over the past few months.

Looking at FlightAware today, all 4 of the big guys are at or below 1% cancelations, while Envoy sits at 14%, SkyWest at 10%, Endeavor at 11%, etc.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:26 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
UALifer wrote:
Well I can’t really say much for the first two, though Alaska has only been operating a handful (~15) daily flights at SFO, so I seriously doubt they’ll be offering a nonstop to AUS in June. The two in OMA are full of it though..


The AS schedule for June is very likely the schedule you're seeing now for May...1x daily SFO-AUS. I don't believe AS is going to be cutting any more than they already have. That said, who knows what tomorrow holds.


His friend might want to give himself an extra day when traveling.

The AS flight leaves at 1600 and has been canceling roughly a third of the time. He does have a couple of reroute options UA via IAH and AA via DFW but leaving that late in the day seriously limits your options.

Everyone needs to be a little more flexible right now....even GS and 1K members....as none of the airlines are capable of flying a full schedule right now. I'm sure UA will add SFO-AUS back as soon as they can.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
UALifer
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:35 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:29 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
UALifer wrote:
Well I can’t really say much for the first two, though Alaska has only been operating a handful (~15) daily flights at SFO, so I seriously doubt they’ll be offering a nonstop to AUS in June. The two in OMA are full of it though..


The AS schedule for June is very likely the schedule you're seeing now for May...1x daily SFO-AUS. I don't believe AS is going to be cutting any more than they already have. That said, who knows what tomorrow holds.


Fair enough, I didn’t actually check where those 15 daily flights were going. I suppose if you have to serve AUS from somewhere, SFO is closer than SEA. It does look they’ve cancelled it fairly often though, at least recently.
 
blockski
Posts: 689
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:34 pm

joeljack wrote:
As the country is opening up, I made a couple calls to 3 friends and a relative that are are either a 1K or GS to see what there travel plans are and found out some startling, very concerning information. Below:

United Global Service member based in Austin: Needs to go to SFO a few times in June but over all, not going to be traveling much. United has no nonstops to SFO right now loaded and he said he will probably wait til a week before to book and he said he will be flying Alaska vs United if United doesn't load and nonstops because Alaska still has a nonstop (assuming they operate it). He said it will be his first time on Alaska.

United 1K in Houston: manages a construction site in Omaha...flies back and forth every week, even during covid to manage job site. United has cancelled so many flights he hasn't even been able to connect the last several weeks, gave up on United and has been flying American through Dallas lately instead. He is very mad at United for booking flights through DEN or ORD and cancelled all their flights on several days with zero options even with long layovers to get back and forth. He said American has cancelled some flights but still seems to be operating several flights a day between Dallas and both Houston and Omaha and hasn't been an issue. He had all his flights booked for June, united just pulled their schedule to eliminate OMA-IAH for June this past weekend. Spent Sunday on phone with United arguing and cancelling the flights. Said he will be re-booking with American.

United 1K in Omaha: Needs to go to Newark mid-June to receive a high dollar international shipment. Tried to book OMA-EWR Sunday and can't even get there with a connection in Chicago. She is super mad and has been a United loyalist. I suggested to try WN, she hates WN and said she would rather drive. lol. She said she'll probably end up on either American or Delta as the trip isn't an option but has to go.

United 1K in Omaha: In financial sector and was looking to get has travel back in order for June...also said flights are so limited with only a single flight a day to ORD from Omaha in June that he can't get any roundtrips to even price out and if they do, they have a super long layover. He said he will be looking at other airlines this week. Note all said they plan on flying in July too but none will be looking to book anything for several weeks until schedules finalize.

That said, out of the 4 1k/GS friends I spoke to Sunday night and last night, really none are booking United and all 4 are going to be traveling in June. Seems like most are waiting til last few weeks to book to make sure schedules are finalized as stuff has changed so much but if there is nothing to book, will need to book with other airlines.

My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.

If United doesn't add flights for June or start flying a reasonable schedule that allows for connections, other airlines will gain big time over United. and United loads will stay anemic.

As a side note, I'm a United Platinum, Iowa based, I don't know when I will fly next. Probably late June or July but won't be booking anytime soon.

Thoughts?


My thoughts are that all of these people need to radically lower their expectations, and none of this is a problem specific to United.

Like, a person in financial services living in Omaha needs to travel in the middle of a pandemic? Why? And then they complain about a super long layover? Come on.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:27 pm

joeljack wrote:
As the country is opening up, I made a couple calls to 3 friends and a relative that are are either a 1K or GS to see what there travel plans are and found out some startling, very concerning information. Below:

United Global Service member based in Austin: Needs to go to SFO a few times in June but over all, not going to be traveling much. United has no nonstops to SFO right now loaded and he said he will probably wait til a week before to book and he said he will be flying Alaska vs United if United doesn't load and nonstops because Alaska still has a nonstop (assuming they operate it). He said it will be his first time on Alaska.

United 1K in Houston: manages a construction site in Omaha...flies back and forth every week, even during covid to manage job site. United has cancelled so many flights he hasn't even been able to connect the last several weeks, gave up on United and has been flying American through Dallas lately instead. He is very mad at United for booking flights through DEN or ORD and cancelled all their flights on several days with zero options even with long layovers to get back and forth. He said American has cancelled some flights but still seems to be operating several flights a day between Dallas and both Houston and Omaha and hasn't been an issue. He had all his flights booked for June, united just pulled their schedule to eliminate OMA-IAH for June this past weekend. Spent Sunday on phone with United arguing and cancelling the flights. Said he will be re-booking with American.

United 1K in Omaha: Needs to go to Newark mid-June to receive a high dollar international shipment. Tried to book OMA-EWR Sunday and can't even get there with a connection in Chicago. She is super mad and has been a United loyalist. I suggested to try WN, she hates WN and said she would rather drive. lol. She said she'll probably end up on either American or Delta as the trip isn't an option but has to go.

United 1K in Omaha: In financial sector and was looking to get has travel back in order for June...also said flights are so limited with only a single flight a day to ORD from Omaha in June that he can't get any roundtrips to even price out and if they do, they have a super long layover. He said he will be looking at other airlines this week. Note all said they plan on flying in July too but none will be looking to book anything for several weeks until schedules finalize.

That said, out of the 4 1k/GS friends I spoke to Sunday night and last night, really none are booking United and all 4 are going to be traveling in June. Seems like most are waiting til last few weeks to book to make sure schedules are finalized as stuff has changed so much but if there is nothing to book, will need to book with other airlines.

My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.

If United doesn't add flights for June or start flying a reasonable schedule that allows for connections, other airlines will gain big time over United. and United loads will stay anemic.

As a side note, I'm a United Platinum, Iowa based, I don't know when I will fly next. Probably late June or July but won't be booking anytime soon.

Thoughts?


Your friends need to see the forest trough the trees. The country has been shuttered for a month what the hell do they expect?

I can tell you Kirby does not and will not lose the business traveler. You can’t be everything to everyone all the time. For all of your united friends stories their are the same stories about DL and AA, some of their pax will come to UA because of convienience. When travel comes back things will slowly right themselves.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:27 pm

joeljack wrote:
My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.


The entire industry is retrenched. There may be hub closures, and certainly large network adjustments that will force huge number of so called "high dollar" elites and corporate travel departments to look elsewhere from their historic airlines of choice.

Nothing against the customer in Omaha, but these airlines are going to be in survival mode and will need to worry more about what happens in key markets like NYC, LA, Chicago etc first.

The post Covid-19 world is a new one for everyone - airline and customer alike.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:33 pm

blockski wrote:
My thoughts are that all of these people need to radically lower their expectations, and none of this is a problem specific to United.

Like, a person in financial services living in Omaha needs to travel in the middle of a pandemic? Why? And then they complain about a super long layover? Come on.


This was going to be a problem from the beginning. If the airlines reduce the number of flights to meet demand, the demand might fall off because of a lack of reasonable options. It becomes an endless circle. In some markets, the airline that blinks first might end up on the short end of the recovery.

It's obvious that the smallest-capacity plane is the most efficient way to go in the short-term for many markets. I just hope the carriers have enough flexibility with labor groups to do whatever is necessary to put the people and resources where they're needed and sideline the resources that aren't.

A business person in Omaha has just as much necessity to travel as a business person in a larger city. This virus isn't stopping most people from continuing to work and pay for the people that can't.
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 4:21 pm

blockski wrote:

My thoughts are that all of these people need to radically lower their expectations, and none of this is a problem specific to United.

Like, a person in financial services living in Omaha needs to travel in the middle of a pandemic? Why? And then they complain about a super long layover? Come on.


I completely agree that people need to lower and manage their expectations. I'm a multi-year 1K and work in a consulting role for a number of global companies and while traveling and working in person would make life easier in many ways, especially in managing employees I've been able to tackle 85% of what I need to remotely with Zoom, WebEx, etc.

If you're managing restructuring, financing for distressed companies, or have questions regarding the ethics of members of senior management at a company and need to be on the ground to see things firsthand, I can see the need to travel and the frustrations of not being able to get there especially when you have deals worth billions on the line. That said, if its that critical and worth that much probably worth looking into NetJets or something similar though I am not sure to what extent they are flying right now. One person mentioned accepting the physical delivery of a high value shipment, valid frustration but hopefully they move on quickly.

For the rest of us, we just need to accept that the pace of things will be slower due to less efficient travel options. Hopefully with a May schedule purpose built for the COVID environment, the number of cancellations goes down and confidence in the schedule goes up.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 6:00 pm

intotheair wrote:
What are the odds UA parts ways with some 787s and 77Ws? It may seem counterintuitive, but UA did shed a handful of newer 744s and 77Es during Ch 11.

They had 44 744s at the time which was too many.

The eight 777s they lost and the two 763s was due to the leasing company not renegotiating a new deal. They did not want to get rid of any.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 9:01 pm

intotheair wrote:
What are the odds UA parts ways with some 787s and 77Ws? It may seem counterintuitive, but UA did shed a handful of newer 744s and 77Es during Ch 11.


United did not willingly give up those newer 744s and 77Es that we lost during bankruptcy. As others have pointed out the leasing companies did not want to renegotiate with UA which left UA will little choice. Also if I'm not mistaken all the 744s and 77Es UA rejected during bankruptcy found new homes fairly quickly at other airlines.

If we look at the market today all airlines are hurting and to be honest we have no idea how many will survive globally and how much used inventory will be on the market as airlines worldwide downsize their fleet. There may be more of an incentive today for leasing companies to work with airlines to keep aircraft in their fleet to keep revenue coming in. In this environment if the used market becomes saturated with frames that does not benefit the leasing company it benefits the airlines. An aircraft sitting on the ground is not making money, it doesn't matter if the owner is an airline or a leasing company.

I think one of the best examples of this are the SQ A380s that were returned to their lessor after just 10 years of service. It was cheaper for the leasing company to scrap these frames than continue to pay to maintain the aircraft while looking for an airline willing to take them.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 9:41 pm

United applied with DOT for authority to restart HKG-SIN service.

Carrier says it seeks to operate daily 77W service to carry cargo effective May 10th.

OST-2020-0047
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 9:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
United applied with DOT for authority to restart HKG-SIN service.

Carrier says it seeks to operate daily 77W service to carry cargo effective May 10th.

OST-2020-0047


They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 10:16 pm

I do wonder if there will be a few new market opportunities for United because of the bankruptcy and end of some airlines. EWR-JNB and IAD-ACC(-JNB) come to mind immediately because of the collapse of South African, for example.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 10:31 pm

jayunited wrote:
intotheair wrote:
What are the odds UA parts ways with some 787s and 77Ws? It may seem counterintuitive, but UA did shed a handful of newer 744s and 77Es during Ch 11.


United did not willingly give up those newer 744s and 77Es that we lost during bankruptcy. As others have pointed out the leasing companies did not want to renegotiate with UA which left UA will little choice. Also if I'm not mistaken all the 744s and 77Es UA rejected during bankruptcy found new homes fairly quickly at other airlines.

If we look at the market today all airlines are hurting and to be honest we have no idea how many will survive globally and how much used inventory will be on the market as airlines worldwide downsize their fleet. There may be more of an incentive today for leasing companies to work with airlines to keep aircraft in their fleet to keep revenue coming in. In this environment if the used market becomes saturated with frames that does not benefit the leasing company it benefits the airlines. An aircraft sitting on the ground is not making money, it doesn't matter if the owner is an airline or a leasing company.

I think one of the best examples of this are the SQ A380s that were returned to their lessor after just 10 years of service. It was cheaper for the leasing company to scrap these frames than continue to pay to maintain the aircraft while looking for an airline willing to take them.

All eight 777s and 14 747s found new homes, The 777s went to a mix of Varig, Air India, Transaero, and Omni. None are flying today. The 747s went to Corsair, and various others with a few winding up in Iran, probably through illegal means. The UAE government has two of them in VIP config.

Of the remaining 30, only 1 of the 6 retired during the 2008-2009 downturn found another home, going to Orient Thai and eventually scrapped.

Only one so far of the ones retired in 2017 has found a new home. I think only a few are left in VCV in flyable condition with the rest derelict.
 
EssentialPowr
Posts: 1702
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 11:04 pm

CriticalPoint “What you will see is massive amounts of 787 FOs in LAX go to SFO and the company will accept them. They will accept the pilots that bid into the 756.....etc. United will furlough on OCT 1st but how many isn’t yet clear but it will certainly not be 4000-5000.”

United is going to start this drawdown with the 5000 displacements and a 30% size reduction; unless things change significantly by September not only will they furlough all 5000 initially but will probably displace more. Pre merger United’s philosophy was to shrink to profitability. That didn’t work but based on the millions of dollars wasted on buying a flight school, uniform debacles and a massive HR increase over the past few years, this is always the solution when managed by a committee instead of a singular airline guru like Bethune, Anderson or Carty.
Last edited by EssentialPowr on Tue May 05, 2020 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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