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jeffrey0032j
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 7:06 am

MrHMSH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
tphuang wrote:
2 xlr flights will give you roughly the same capacity but a better schedule.

But more costs. 2 sets of crew, 2 sets of engines, separate airport and airway fees.


In the US model of flying isn't frequency more important than efficiency? Otherwise much more domestic flying would be widebody.

That is true for domestic routes. International routes are still largely widebody, in part due to slot restrictions at other ports.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 7:21 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
But more costs. 2 sets of crew, 2 sets of engines, separate airport and airway fees.


In the US model of flying isn't frequency more important than efficiency? Otherwise much more domestic flying would be widebody.

That is true for domestic routes. International routes are still largely widebody, in part due to slot restrictions at other ports.


Might be the case for the really busy hubs, but then if demand warrants 2-3x A321XLR or 1 78X and there are no slot restrictions, surely they'd choose the multiple daily option?
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 8:46 am

MrHMSH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

In the US model of flying isn't frequency more important than efficiency? Otherwise much more domestic flying would be widebody.

That is true for domestic routes. International routes are still largely widebody, in part due to slot restrictions at other ports.


Might be the case for the really busy hubs, but then if demand warrants 2-3x A321XLR or 1 78X and there are no slot restrictions, surely they'd choose the multiple daily option?

I don't think there are many more markets that are suitable which not already served by 757s, so mainly these XLRs will be for 757 replacements.
 
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Polot
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 11:25 am

MrHMSH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

In the US model of flying isn't frequency more important than efficiency? Otherwise much more domestic flying would be widebody.

That is true for domestic routes. International routes are still largely widebody, in part due to slot restrictions at other ports.


Might be the case for the really busy hubs, but then if demand warrants 2-3x A321XLR or 1 78X and there are no slot restrictions, surely they'd choose the multiple daily option?

It really depends on the route and how much the passenger profile is split between business, leisure, and connecting passengers. Depending on the destination multiple flights on smaller aircraft may not net you all that much because time zones often force those flights into narrow windows anyways. In O&D business heavy destinations having a flight that arrives an hour earlier might be very important, but a destination in which a lot of the passengers are connecting or leisure less so as long as flight is timed well with hub bank.

Also important to keep in mind that unlike many international airlines US airlines have multiple intercontinental hubs they can encourage connecting passengers through (by pricing).
 
tphuang
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 11:30 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:

In a low demand environment this is certainly true. The smaller the aircraft, the better. But once demand picks back up, a 321XLR doesn't necessarily beat a 78J on a route that can comfortably support both flights. In that case, the more seats you can sell at a healthy price, the better.

2 xlr flights will give you roughly the same capacity but a better schedule.

But more costs. 2 sets of crew, 2 sets of engines, separate airport and airway fees.


The CASM calculation Leeham performed were total operating costs including all of that and cost of the air frames themselves. A321XLR were basically about the same as 787-8 and A330-800. So it will be higher than 78J, but that's where the additional flexibility and better schedule come in. You can see right now with lack of demand, having A321 is a lot better than having a bunch of parked widebodies depreciating in value. Domestically, we are basically just down to a couple of HNL routes, DL on JFK-LAX and UA's EWR-LAX/SFO routes where wide usage of widebodies are more profitable. We will see how it is for TATL.

Basically, the original idea that UA will go without A321XLR does not make any sense unless they are willing to abandon a lot of markets.
 
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Polot
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 11:34 am

tphuang wrote:
[
Basically, the original idea that UA will go without A321XLR does not make any sense unless they are willing to abandon a lot of markets.

There was never any idea that UA will go without A321XLRs (which they have on order). It was always a question of whether UA would get the A321XLR or wait for whatever Boeing was going to offer for MOM (pre-Max grounding). UA/CO, after all, has been a heavy TATL 757 user (especially in the past) and it was always expected they would be a big MoM customer in the future.

That doesn’t mean 787s don’t have a place in their fleet though, or that UA has no need to order any more for the future (they can always replace older 777s if no expansion desired).
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 12:30 pm

jfk777 wrote:
United 767 are going to stay around a while, they are paid for and have new seats. They are efficient at flying to Europe with their new Polaris interiors from Newark and Chicago. Eventually UA may do what AA is doing and buy more 787-8 to replace the 767-300ER fleet. Early 777 could certainly be leaving the UA fleet, but the 757 are the first toast if UA is going to burn beard.


How's the dispatch reliability of the UA 767-300s? I'm sure it's better now than it used to be pre-merger, but what is it now?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
tphuang
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 12:48 pm

Polot wrote:
tphuang wrote:
[
Basically, the original idea that UA will go without A321XLR does not make any sense unless they are willing to abandon a lot of markets.

There was never any idea that UA will go without A321XLRs (which they have on order). It was always a question of whether UA would get the A321XLR or wait for whatever Boeing was going to offer for MOM (pre-Max grounding). UA/CO, after all, has been a heavy TATL 757 user (especially in the past) and it was always expected they would be a big MoM customer in the future.

That doesn’t mean 787s don’t have a place in their fleet though, or that UA has no need to order any more for the future (they can always replace older 777s if no expansion desired).

I was originally responding to someone saying United will not have a321xlr which I found to be quite ludicrous.
 
jayunited
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 1:00 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
How's the dispatch reliability of the UA 767-300s? I'm sure it's better now than it used to be pre-merger, but what is it now?


The dispatch reliability of our 763s is nil because the entire fleet is grounded.

Based on the summer international schedule UA has released thus far the 763s probably won't return to the skies until our IATA-winter schedule goes into effect in late October 2020.
 
MBASS
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 1:41 pm

I have a trip in July, where a 763 is scheduled to fly the domestic part out of EWR. I guess the 763’s are being put to service on domestic instead of international?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:

They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.


How does applying to operate a cargo tag-on flight have anything to do with U's currently suspended nonstop SFO-SIN-SFO passenger service?

Most of our cargo charters out of Asia are operating with a stop in NRT. How is for example SFO-HKG-SIN cargo flight any different from cargo flight operating SFO-NRT-PVG?

United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.


How does applying to operate a cargo tag-on flight have anything to do with U's currently suspended nonstop SFO-SIN-SFO passenger service?

Most of our cargo charters out of Asia are operating with a stop in NRT. How is for example SFO-HKG-SIN cargo flight any different from cargo flight operating SFO-NRT-PVG?

United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.


In their application it states that they intend to carry pax on the route in the future.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:58 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
United is going to start this drawdown with the 5000 displacements and a 30% size reduction; unless things change significantly by September not only will they furlough all 5000 initially but will probably displace more.

From a UAL fleet perspective, furloughing 5000 pilots on Oct 1 directly translates to parking the entire narrow body fleet on Oct 1.

The narrowbody fleets will not be staffed with pilots to fly them given the parameters of the current displacement and any UAL pilot with access to the displacement can see exactly the seniority numbers associated with it. Simply put, 5000 furloughs on Oct 1 not only wipes out all the first officers on aircraft that require two pilots but also the majority of pilot instructors in UAL's Denver training center which only further cripples UAL's ability to re-train pilots for further movement.

If UAL intends to furlough 5000 pilots on Oct 1 they put out the wrong displacement.
 
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Polot
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 2:19 pm

MBASS wrote:
I have a trip in July, where a 763 is scheduled to fly the domestic part out of EWR. I guess the 763’s are being put to service on domestic instead of international?

More than likely the aircraft type will change. I don’t believe any of the summer schedules are fully finalized and still have remnants of pre-covid plans in them.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:49 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.


How does applying to operate a cargo tag-on flight have anything to do with U's currently suspended nonstop SFO-SIN-SFO passenger service?

Most of our cargo charters out of Asia are operating with a stop in NRT. How is for example SFO-HKG-SIN cargo flight any different from cargo flight operating SFO-NRT-PVG?

United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.


In their application it states that they intend to carry pax on the route in the future.


errrrm maybe...

"United applies, pursuant to Subpart C of 14 C.F.R. Part 302 of the Department’s Rules of Practice and the October 19, 2002, Memorandum of Understanding between the United States and Hong Kong (“U.S. – Hong Kong MOU”), for allocation of seven weekly Fifth Freedom combination frequencies to permit United to provide foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail between Hong Kong and Singapore. United first plans to launch cargo-only service starting on May 10, 2020, using B777-300 aircraft from its existing fleet, provided all necessary approvals have been secured."

You can imply that but it doesn't explicitly say that. UA certainly has the option to with their application but both HKG and SIN should be able to support non-stops from SFO once travel resumes.
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:02 pm

jayunited wrote:
United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.


Already received. There is a bulletin out about main cabin loading and approved storage locations

Nicknuzzii wrote:
In their application it states that they intend to carry pax on the route in the future.

:shakehead: :shakehead:
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Cedar
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Re: United orders 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 3:04 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Yes there will be layoffs but no one knows a number.....Forbes sure as hell doesn’t. They got their number from websites with bad info including this one. So writing that 1/3 of the pilots are facing lay-off is irresponsible.


The number is known, both at United and within Treasury. The CARES Act loan applications due 4/30/20 - which UA has submitted - had to show projected headcount through the end of the year. Do you want to bet money that United and Treasury are leak-proof? I wouldn't.


I have no don’t the number is known. The point is until something is announced we can’t claim United is laying off pilots.


I highly suggest people look at reports from all angles of media before making generalizations & claims. Not to mention, listen to actual employees who work there. Reports in the media are purposely made vague, for click bait. and more viewing. And their so called "sources" are not always the best.

United has announced & communicated to employees a "plan" for Oct 1st if travel demand remains at zero - and potential plans moving forward. This is UA communicating openly with employees. Basically managing expectations so people are not shocked and can plan appropriately.
The plan is not written in stone, and is dependant on how travel rebounds as stated by UA. So the plan is likely to change.

I'm sure many of you have predictions on how travel rebounds - but the decisions will all be based on actual numbers and facts.

Cedar
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:09 pm

UA published their May schedule on the UA Cargo site...all the flights listed carry passengers not just cargo. The cargo only flights are not listed on the pdf's.

Widebody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

Narrowbody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

UAX

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf
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Cedar
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 3:09 pm

jayunited wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
How's the dispatch reliability of the UA 767-300s? I'm sure it's better now than it used to be pre-merger, but what is it now?


The dispatch reliability of our 763s is nil because the entire fleet is grounded.

Based on the summer international schedule UA has released thus far the 763s probably won't return to the skies until our IATA-winter schedule goes into effect in late October 2020.


So you think they will return? - I though they would expedite retirement of these.

Cedar
 
AA94
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 5:29 pm

Cedar wrote:
So you think they will return? - I though they would expedite retirement of these.
Cedar


It depends on how long the crisis lasts, but I don't think they'll be retired wholesale. There might be a targeted retirement of some frames (due for HMV? older aircraft?) where it makes sense, but I think UA still needs an aircraft more capable than the 752 but not as large as the 787.

I think the 764 is probably going to get sold up the river right away, along with the PW 757s.
 
panam330
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:30 pm

United1 wrote:
UA published their May schedule on the UA Cargo site...all the flights listed carry passengers not just cargo. The cargo only flights are not listed on the pdf's.
Narrowbody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

Fascinating to see that aside from 3 flights, DEN is entirely 319 - unless it's just a placeholder equipment code and they're subbing in 320s as needed/desired.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:44 pm

panam330 wrote:
United1 wrote:
UA published their May schedule on the UA Cargo site...all the flights listed carry passengers not just cargo. The cargo only flights are not listed on the pdf's.
Narrowbody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

Fascinating to see that aside from 3 flights, DEN is entirely 319 - unless it's just a placeholder equipment code and they're subbing in 320s as needed/desired.


Those are just placeholders just like the listed 738 flights are a mix of 737-7/8/9s. It's the same on the widebody pdf the 787s are a mix of 78X and 789 aircraft and the 777s are 772HDs.

There are more A32S flying than 737s though.

Looks like the 788s are flying as well...seeing them on ORD-SFO/LAX/EWR, DEN-LAX and IAH-SFO. There is another one flying IAD-NRT...is that one heading in for Polaris mods?
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 7:48 pm

I see that 788 and its doing a RT IAD-NRT-PEK-NRT-IAD. Seems kind of odd as the 788 has 25% less cargo space than the 789.
UA is moving to smaller units domestically. I see this percentage in service (flying today or scheduled tomorrow)

Narrowbodies (overall 13.8% in service, 370 of 572 [64.6%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
319, 39.2%
73G 30%
320 22.7%
738 9.2%
753 4.8%
739 1.4%
752 0%

Widebodies (overall 26.8% in service, 125 of 205 [61%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
763, 764, 772ER/PW, 772ER/GE all parked/stored
78X 76.9%
789 76.7%
77W 72.7%
788 25%
772Domestic 13% (includes 4ERs sked for Domestic config.)
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 7:55 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I see that 788 and its doing a RT IAD-NRT-PEK-NRT-IAD. Seems kind of odd as the 788 has 25% less cargo space than the 789.
UA is moving to smaller units domestically. I see this percentage in service (flying today or scheduled tomorrow)

Narrowbodies (overall 13.8% in service, 370 of 572 [64.6%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
319, 39.2%
73G 30%
320 22.7%
738 9.2%
753 4.8%
739 1.4%
752 0%

Widebodies (overall 26.8% in service, 125 of 205 [61%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
763, 764, 772ER/PW, 772ER/GE all parked/stored
78X 76.9%
789 76.7%
77W 72.7%
788 25%
772Domestic 13% (includes 4ERs sked for Domestic config.)


This wasn't on the schedules from UA but there are a couple of 77U/Ns at least scheduled to do IAD-SJU round trips. Assuming those are cargo only flights...I don't think there are any passenger flights right now on those aircraft.
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FSDan
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 8:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
Basically, the original idea that UA will go without A321XLR does not make any sense unless they are willing to abandon a lot of markets.


:checkmark: As an example, the 321XLR will be perfect for EWR-Secondary UK markets where UA (and CO before them) has long had a presence.
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FSDan
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Re: United exercises options for 7 787-10s

Wed May 06, 2020 8:20 pm

AA94 wrote:
I think UA still needs an aircraft more capable than the 752 but not as large as the 787.


I agree. Especially given they only have 12 of the smaller 787-8s.
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lightsaber
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 2:52 am

Folks:
Debate the topic, do not discuss about other users.

Do not discuss moderation in an open forum.

Moderators do not arbitrate truth.

This is an emotional time, please post with a cool head. If you must, agree to disagree.

This topic is about to be locked due to the personal arguments. Please return to posting on topic.

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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 pm

Does anyone have any information on 78X orders? I read somewhere that some options were selected in the Q1 report (7 or 8), obviously before the pandemic. If UA is contractually obligated to take these, would they be more likely to replace 767's or 777's?
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 12:54 pm

cosyr wrote:
Does anyone have any information on 78X orders? I read somewhere that some options were selected in the Q1 report (7 or 8), obviously before the pandemic. If UA is contractually obligated to take these, would they be more likely to replace 767's or 777's?


I don't know how exactly they plan on deploying the new 78Xs but all are slated for delivery in 2021. Other tidbits from their Q1 results UA and Boeing settled on compensation for the MAX debacle.
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 7:23 pm

So I've been going over UA's narrow-body and wide-body aircraft where they are either parked or stored paying particularly close attention to the 767 and 757 fleet.

I noticed of the RR 752 fleet 11 frames are stored at MCO, 5 frames are stored either at SFO, ORD, DEN, or INT. The remaining RR 752 and all the PW 752 are stored at either ROW or GRY. Of the 753s only one frame is stored at ROW the remaining 753 frames are stored either at one of our hubs, MCO or INT. Of the 763 fleet 9 frames are stored at ROW the remaining frames are either stored at ORD, IAH or IAD. Looking at the 764 fleet that entire fleet has been stored at ROW.

Speaking with people who were on the team that oversaw where to store our aircraft they said decisions were based on how long UA believes the aircraft will be out of service. Aircraft at ROW are in long term storage meaning there is a good probability they will not fly again for at least a year or two years if not longer. While aircraft stored at the hubs can be put back into service in 4 to 6 days depending on if it is a narrow-body or a wide-body. Although things can change and may change I this gave me a clearer picture of what UA's fleet could look like in 2021.

I know I spent a great deal of time saying the 752s will come back and who knows those 16 frames stored at the hubs, MCO and INT could make a return. However seeing that the bulk of the 752 fleet is stored at ROW those frames may not fly again. The same goes for the 764s but they were quick to say no final decision has been made but did point out the chances of an aircraft stored at ROW flying out of there within a year or less is highly unlikely. I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 8:54 pm

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 9:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.

Personally, I don't think that's much of a surprise. There's a reason that hardly anybody bought the 737-900 and why Boeing came back with the -900ER. Those 12 airplanes are non-standard and performance limited compared to the rest of the fleet. If UAL has too many airplanes and the choice comes down to parking -900s or -900ERs it's an easy call.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 10:02 pm

Will UA/AA's 757 find life as freighters? I actually thought UA had already had agreements to do that already with UPS.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
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    calpsafltskeds
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Thu May 07, 2020 10:17 pm

    UA does seem to have a plan for these fleets. There are easy ways to see where aircraft are parked, stored or operating. All updated daily and available from fleet site home page (see links bottom of all my posts).

    1.) Fleet site United Mainline Fleet Spreadsheet - it now has a column for parking location - if empty, aircraft is moving today or tomorrow - if the memo portion is filled, it have been on the ground 14+ days and/or in a storage location will location and date entered (If you'd like to find aircraft at an airport, you can do a find Control/F and put in the code and it will highlight those aircraft)

    2.) Fleet site Coronavirus parked spreadsheet - a bit hard to read but 3 tabs - aircraft with shading are parked, stored have text in red or white and no shading shows aircraft moving today or tomorrow. There are stats at the top for operational/parked/stored units by fleet type.

    3.) Map by Ross Paulson that shows numbers and aircraft in each parked/storage location - it's updated daily from Fleet site data.

    Jay's checked out the 757/767 fleet well. I concur that the MCO/INT units will return first (GYR units are in HMV with one completed today). The 753 fleet may return to be hub to hub and maybe Hawaii after startup.
    Also might indicate smaller units will return quicker (738/G and 319/20) while the 739s will take more time (739non-ER might not return).

    Here's a short rundown of parking/storage location by fleet type:
    319: Long term: RFD/7, ROW/3, LCQ/4 - Mid-term: ORD/PDX/DEN
    320: Long term: ROW/15, RFD/12, LCQ/1 - Mid term: DEN/ORD/PDX
    73G: Long term: ROW/1, - Mid-term: INT/2
    738: Long term: ROW/3, MIA/3, RFD/4, INT/3 - Mid-term: CLE15+/IAH15+/HOU/TPA8/LAX/ORD
    739: Long term: ROW/24, RFD/8, INT/5 - Mid term: CLE15+/IAH15+/DEN/ORD (NOTE: ROW includes all 12 739non-ER units)
    752 mentioned by Jayunited
    753: grab bag ORD/DEN/SFO/MCO
    763: Most in IAH or ROW, 764 all ROW
    788: Now flying about half, 2 each in DEN/SFO. 1 in IAD
    789/78X/77W: Mostly flying
    772: Doemstic, ROW/SFO/ORD/Flying
    772PW: IAD/ROW/ORD/SFO
    772GE: IAD/IAH/ROW/ORD/HKG-Mod
     
    VC10er
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 2:08 pm

    Since I have read quite a bit now regarding UA’s 763’s, here and elsewhere, not one thing I have read mentions in particular the High-J 763’s?

    Before COVID-19 I thought those High-J 763’s were fabulous and I loved flying them in Polaris. It really did feel like UA had something great going between EWR & LHR (with Polaris Lounge, etc) to offer a great experience and effectively compete on this coveted route.

    But with demand close to zero, and fear of spending as a Great Recession 2.0 looms...has anyone mentioned these uniquely configured 763’s?
    To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
     
    redrooster3
    Posts: 379
    Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 2:44 pm

    VC10er wrote:
    Since I have read quite a bit now regarding UA’s 763’s, here and elsewhere, not one thing I have read mentions in particular the High-J 763’s?

    Before COVID-19 I thought those High-J 763’s were fabulous and I loved flying them in Polaris. It really did feel like UA had something great going between EWR & LHR (with Polaris Lounge, etc) to offer a great experience and effectively compete on this coveted route.

    But with demand close to zero, and fear of spending as a Great Recession 2.0 looms...has anyone mentioned these uniquely configured 763’s?


    Most, if not, all of the High-Js are stored in IAH and can be active within days if needed.
    Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
     
    FlyHossD
    Posts: 2100
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 4:10 pm

    airplanedriver6 wrote:
    jayunited wrote:
    I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.

    Personally, I don't think that's much of a surprise. There's a reason that hardly anybody bought the 737-900 and why Boeing came back with the -900ER. Those 12 airplanes are non-standard and performance limited compared to the rest of the fleet. If UAL has too many airplanes and the choice comes down to parking -900s or -900ERs it's an easy call.


    The 739s (non-900ERs) aren't so much performance limited as they are weight limited. For example, if I'm recalling correctly, the Max Landing Weight is about 10,000 pounds lighter on the "straight -900s" as the -900ERs.

    I flew the -900s fairly regularly back in the day (flew #401 in it's first week at CO). The were good for 2 or 3 hour flights (think EWR-Florida) or IAH-LAS and such. But if you had a distant alternate airport, the fuel needed could - and sometimes would - limit the payload. The Network folks seemed to not always understand it's limitations and would sometimes seemingly only count seats and where that number of seats could be used (if you get my meaning).
    My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
     
    EssentialPowr
    Posts: 1733
    Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 6:23 pm

    FlyHossD wrote:
    airplanedriver6 wrote:
    jayunited wrote:
    I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.

    Personally, I don't think that's much of a surprise. There's a reason that hardly anybody bought the 737-900 and why Boeing came back with the -900ER. Those 12 airplanes are non-standard and performance limited compared to the rest of the fleet. If UAL has too many airplanes and the choice comes down to parking -900s or -900ERs it's an easy call.


    The 739s (non-900ERs) aren't so much performance limited as they are weight limited. For example, if I'm recalling correctly, the Max Landing Weight is about 10,000 pounds lighter on the "straight -900s" as the -900ERs.

    I flew the -900s fairly regularly back in the day (flew #401 in it's first week at CO). The were good for 2 or 3 hour flights (think EWR-Florida) or IAH-LAS and such. But if you had a distant alternate airport, the fuel needed could - and sometimes would - limit the payload. The Network folks seemed to not always understand it's limitations and would sometimes seemingly only count seats and where that number of seats could be used (if you get my meaning).


    Agreed. The bone stock 900s show a MGTOW of 174700 lbs vs 188200 for the -ER, 147300 vs 157300 for MLW, and 140300 vs 149300 for ZFW. ERs had the new flat aft bulkhead, aft door cutouts, retractable tail skid (2 iterations I believe) and more, plus different LED extension logic. The latter characteristic results in the fasted approach speeds in the business, generally 150 kts plus wind additive. They’re tweaky at flaps 40 in a crosswind; flaps 40 is used mostly in auto land scenarios. United doesn’t have the HUD option, the 737s are autoland.
     
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    calpsafltskeds
    Posts: 3229
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 7:37 pm

    I believe the 739non-ERs have been scheduled successfully in and out of IAH for a couple years or more as stage lengths are not an issue. If UA is grounding aircraft these should be brought back last, but they are capable units that should be saving UA about $50 on landing fees per arrival vs. the ER.
     
    EssentialPowr
    Posts: 1733
    Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 7:57 pm

    [*]
    calpsafltskeds wrote:
    I believe the 739non-ERs have been scheduled successfully in and out of IAH for a couple years or more as stage lengths are not an issue. If UA is grounding aircraft these should be brought back last, but they are capable units that should be saving UA about $50 on landing fees per arrival vs. the ER.


    They’re certainly utilized in just about every hub as all -900s have great seat mile costs. Not so much a DEN airplane in the winter as only the ERs do the Flaps 5 go around for ice accretion...
     
    CHOWahoo
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:16 am

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 9:40 pm

    United has quietly nixed its plan to issue $2.25bn in debt. Anyone know what's up? Does it not need the money or was the bid/ask not to its liking?
    Source: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/100517/000119312520137726/d920021d8k.htm
     
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    LAXintl
    Posts: 24727
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 9:58 pm

    CHOWahoo wrote:
    United has quietly nixed its plan to issue $2.25bn in debt. Anyone know what's up? Does it not need the money or was the bid/ask not to its liking?
    Source: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/100517/000119312520137726/d920021d8k.htm


    Market reception was cool. Even with 11% coupon rate investors were not excited particularly with old'ish fleet collateral
    From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
     
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    LAXintl
    Posts: 24727
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 9:59 pm

    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image
    From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
     
    CHOWahoo
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:16 am

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:03 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Market reception was cool. Even with 11% coupon rate investors were not excited particularly with old'ish fleet collateral


    Ouch. I had been hearing high-single digits yesterday, so things obviously deteriorated.
     
    MIflyer12
    Posts: 8296
    Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:04 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    CHOWahoo wrote:
    United has quietly nixed its plan to issue $2.25bn in debt. Anyone know what's up? Does it not need the money or was the bid/ask not to its liking?
    Source: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/100517/000119312520137726/d920021d8k.htm


    Market reception was cool. Even with 11% coupon rate investors were not excited particularly with old'ish fleet collateral


    That is a very bad sign two ways:

    1. It wasn't intended to be entirely incremental debt: From the 8-K on 5/6/20

    United intends to use the net proceeds from the offering of the Notes to repay the $2.0 billion aggregate principal amount outstanding under the
    term loan facility that United entered into on March 9, 2020 and, to the extent that any net proceeds remain, for general corporate purposes. The final
    terms and amounts of the Notes are subject to market and other conditions and may be materially different than expectations.


    2. The debt markets are starting to segregate winners and losers. Another carrier borrowed a lot more $ at a much lower rate recently.
     
    United1
    Posts: 4187
    Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:55 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    So that works out to roughly 45 of the 756 fleet making it through this. All of the 777 and 787 fleets should be fine.

    Please note I’m assuming 5 CAs per plane in the fleet if that number is higher the number of aircraft will be less.
    Last edited by United1 on Fri May 08, 2020 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    tphuang
    Posts: 5351
    Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:55 pm

    I guess given this kind of reception, UA pretty much has to take the gov't loans. If they can't even get buyers with 11% interest, that's not a good sign.
     
    CriticalPoint
    Posts: 1062
    Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:58 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    I really wish people would stop posting internal communications. The more it happens the less information we get.

    We don’t get to see the planned WB aircraft vs. destination chart anymore because people keep posting it online.
     
    Nicknuzzii
    Posts: 1249
    Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:16 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    Do you have the pre Covid numbers?
     
    Nicknuzzii
    Posts: 1249
    Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:17 pm

    CriticalPoint wrote:
    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    I really wish people would stop posting internal communications. The more it happens the less information we get.

    We don’t get to see the planned WB aircraft vs. destination chart anymore because people keep posting it online.


    Why is this a problem for you or something the airline would care about?

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