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x1234
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 11:06 pm

Traditionally UA & DL are the most unique launcher of routes. Delta into Africa and UA into Asia. I agree if SAA goes down then UA should launch EWR-JNB in addition to EWR-CPT. I also seriously hope that DL launches SEA-SIN/MNL.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:41 am

EssentialPowr wrote:
Carty.


Don, is that you?
 
GSP psgr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:04 am

x1234 wrote:
Traditionally UA & DL are the most unique launcher of routes. Delta into Africa and UA into Asia. I agree if SAA goes down then UA should launch EWR-JNB in addition to EWR-CPT. I also seriously hope that DL launches SEA-SIN/MNL.


The only hiccup with EWR-JNB would be what restrictions might exist using a 787 out of JNB nonstop because it is hot and high (there may or may not be restrictions). UA may opt to do a EWR-JNB-CPT-EWR routing in order to be able to haul a full belly of cargo back to the US. DL uses the 77L on ATL-JNB which was somewhat purpose built for the route.

As for ACC, there were rumors to the extent that it was a significantly more profitable 5th Freedom flight than IAD-DKR/DSS and IAD-ACC had only recently gone daily on SAA. Something to keep an eye on in the medium to long term-I think we'll see DL pick up the slack on JFK-ACC first, though.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:39 am

Due to high and hot, isn't tire speed the issue with JNB departures? I wonder how the 789 does vs. the 77L in this factor?
I wonder if LH pullback will put more UA metal on FRA and MUC flights? Maybe when things come back, there would be an opportunity to add more Germany smaller markets from EWR, especially with the 321XLR.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 4:37 am

I'd love to see UA do routes like that, but at this point, I think UA needs to focus on keeping as much as what it already has been flying. They're not predicting to get back to 2019 levels for another 2-3 years, which, 2019 was a great year, but in the meantime, I think UA and all the airlines are going to shrink by quite a bit, unfortunately. Destinations like South Africa are probably going to be on the backburner for a while, even with the impending collapse of SAA taken into consideration.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:12 am

UALifer wrote:
joeljack wrote:
As the country is opening up, I made a couple calls to 3 friends and a relative that are are either a 1K or GS to see what there travel plans are and found out some startling, very concerning information. Below:

United Global Service member based in Austin: Needs to go to SFO a few times in June but over all, not going to be traveling much. United has no nonstops to SFO right now loaded and he said he will probably wait til a week before to book and he said he will be flying Alaska vs United if United doesn't load and nonstops because Alaska still has a nonstop (assuming they operate it). He said it will be his first time on Alaska.

United 1K in Houston: manages a construction site in Omaha...flies back and forth every week, even during covid to manage job site. United has cancelled so many flights he hasn't even been able to connect the last several weeks, gave up on United and has been flying American through Dallas lately instead. He is very mad at United for booking flights through DEN or ORD and cancelled all their flights on several days with zero options even with long layovers to get back and forth. He said American has cancelled some flights but still seems to be operating several flights a day between Dallas and both Houston and Omaha and hasn't been an issue. He had all his flights booked for June, united just pulled their schedule to eliminate OMA-IAH for June this past weekend. Spent Sunday on phone with United arguing and cancelling the flights. Said he will be re-booking with American.

United 1K in Omaha: Needs to go to Newark mid-June to receive a high dollar international shipment. Tried to book OMA-EWR Sunday and can't even get there with a connection in Chicago. She is super mad and has been a United loyalist. I suggested to try WN, she hates WN and said she would rather drive. lol. She said she'll probably end up on either American or Delta as the trip isn't an option but has to go.

United 1K in Omaha: In financial sector and was looking to get has travel back in order for June...also said flights are so limited with only a single flight a day to ORD from Omaha in June that he can't get any roundtrips to even price out and if they do, they have a super long layover. He said he will be looking at other airlines this week. Note all said they plan on flying in July too but none will be looking to book anything for several weeks until schedules finalize.

That said, out of the 4 1k/GS friends I spoke to Sunday night and last night, really none are booking United and all 4 are going to be traveling in June. Seems like most are waiting til last few weeks to book to make sure schedules are finalized as stuff has changed so much but if there is nothing to book, will need to book with other airlines.

My personal opinion after hearing this, United needs to be very careful not to lose too many high dollar elites. For example, after some searching, they are only flying 1 OMA-ORD in June and it doesn't even operate ever day. ORD-EWR is only 2x daily. You really can't run an airline with a schedule like that. I'd say at a minimum, you need 2x daily OMA-ORD and 5x daily ORD-EWR (hub to hub). Also, should probably be flying 1x daily OMA-IAH on a 50-seater.

If United doesn't add flights for June or start flying a reasonable schedule that allows for connections, other airlines will gain big time over United. and United loads will stay anemic.

As a side note, I'm a United Platinum, Iowa based, I don't know when I will fly next. Probably late June or July but won't be booking anytime soon.

Thoughts?


Well I can’t really say much for the first two, though Alaska has only been operating a handful (~15) daily flights at SFO, so I seriously doubt they’ll be offering a nonstop to AUS in June. The two in OMA are full of it though.

United just redesigned their schedule in May to improve connections and will be implementing similar changes for June either this weekend or next. Most of the hubs ran roughly a 30% seat factor yesterday with this new schedule so I’m not sure why everyone is so down on the United schedule.

There are currently two daily flights OMA-ORD and OMA-DEN, both of which line up with the “mega banks” that have been built in each hub, and both of which offer 45-60 minute connections to anywhere they want to go.

For example, OMA-EWR via ORD:

OMA 0630 ORD 0811
ORD 0920 EWR 1224

OMA 1515 ORD 1658
ORD 1745 EWR 2055

Even your friend who wants to go IAH-OMA should not have much longer than a 1 hour layover in ORD or DEN, though he’s right that it’s a bit out of the way versus going through DFW.


Its all a matter of waiting it out. When the smoke clears, I cannot imagine that OMA-IAH wont come back. It wouldnt make since for UA not to fly it even in the new normal.
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:

They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.


How does applying to operate a cargo tag-on flight have anything to do with U's currently suspended nonstop SFO-SIN-SFO passenger service?

Most of our cargo charters out of Asia are operating with a stop in NRT. How is for example SFO-HKG-SIN cargo flight any different from cargo flight operating SFO-NRT-PVG?

United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.


How does applying to operate a cargo tag-on flight have anything to do with U's currently suspended nonstop SFO-SIN-SFO passenger service?

Most of our cargo charters out of Asia are operating with a stop in NRT. How is for example SFO-HKG-SIN cargo flight any different from cargo flight operating SFO-NRT-PVG?

United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.


In their application it states that they intend to carry pax on the route in the future.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:58 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
United is going to start this drawdown with the 5000 displacements and a 30% size reduction; unless things change significantly by September not only will they furlough all 5000 initially but will probably displace more.

From a UAL fleet perspective, furloughing 5000 pilots on Oct 1 directly translates to parking the entire narrow body fleet on Oct 1.

The narrowbody fleets will not be staffed with pilots to fly them given the parameters of the current displacement and any UAL pilot with access to the displacement can see exactly the seniority numbers associated with it. Simply put, 5000 furloughs on Oct 1 not only wipes out all the first officers on aircraft that require two pilots but also the majority of pilot instructors in UAL's Denver training center which only further cripples UAL's ability to re-train pilots for further movement.

If UAL intends to furlough 5000 pilots on Oct 1 they put out the wrong displacement.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:49 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They plan to add pax to those flights in the future. Sounds like the end for SFO - SIN for a little bit.


How does applying to operate a cargo tag-on flight have anything to do with U's currently suspended nonstop SFO-SIN-SFO passenger service?

Most of our cargo charters out of Asia are operating with a stop in NRT. How is for example SFO-HKG-SIN cargo flight any different from cargo flight operating SFO-NRT-PVG?

United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.


In their application it states that they intend to carry pax on the route in the future.


errrrm maybe...

"United applies, pursuant to Subpart C of 14 C.F.R. Part 302 of the Department’s Rules of Practice and the October 19, 2002, Memorandum of Understanding between the United States and Hong Kong (“U.S. – Hong Kong MOU”), for allocation of seven weekly Fifth Freedom combination frequencies to permit United to provide foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail between Hong Kong and Singapore. United first plans to launch cargo-only service starting on May 10, 2020, using B777-300 aircraft from its existing fleet, provided all necessary approvals have been secured."

You can imply that but it doesn't explicitly say that. UA certainly has the option to with their application but both HKG and SIN should be able to support non-stops from SFO once travel resumes.
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:02 pm

jayunited wrote:
United is in the final stages of getting FAA approval to load cargo in the cabins on our 789s and 77Ws but even if with approval and if we were to load cargo in the cabin operating a nonstop cargo flight SFO-SIN-SFO is a nonstarter even with the higher shipping rates. Applying for the tag-on is a regulatory procedure required even for cargo flights which has nothing to do with UA1/UA2 or UA28/UA29.


Already received. There is a bulletin out about main cabin loading and approved storage locations

Nicknuzzii wrote:
In their application it states that they intend to carry pax on the route in the future.

:shakehead: :shakehead:
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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:09 pm

UA published their May schedule on the UA Cargo site...all the flights listed carry passengers not just cargo. The cargo only flights are not listed on the pdf's.

Widebody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

Narrowbody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

UAX

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf
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panam330
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:30 pm

United1 wrote:
UA published their May schedule on the UA Cargo site...all the flights listed carry passengers not just cargo. The cargo only flights are not listed on the pdf's.
Narrowbody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

Fascinating to see that aside from 3 flights, DEN is entirely 319 - unless it's just a placeholder equipment code and they're subbing in 320s as needed/desired.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:44 pm

panam330 wrote:
United1 wrote:
UA published their May schedule on the UA Cargo site...all the flights listed carry passengers not just cargo. The cargo only flights are not listed on the pdf's.
Narrowbody

https://www.unitedcargo.com/ShowFiles?f ... -05-04.pdf

Fascinating to see that aside from 3 flights, DEN is entirely 319 - unless it's just a placeholder equipment code and they're subbing in 320s as needed/desired.


Those are just placeholders just like the listed 738 flights are a mix of 737-7/8/9s. It's the same on the widebody pdf the 787s are a mix of 78X and 789 aircraft and the 777s are 772HDs.

There are more A32S flying than 737s though.

Looks like the 788s are flying as well...seeing them on ORD-SFO/LAX/EWR, DEN-LAX and IAH-SFO. There is another one flying IAD-NRT...is that one heading in for Polaris mods?
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 7:48 pm

I see that 788 and its doing a RT IAD-NRT-PEK-NRT-IAD. Seems kind of odd as the 788 has 25% less cargo space than the 789.
UA is moving to smaller units domestically. I see this percentage in service (flying today or scheduled tomorrow)

Narrowbodies (overall 13.8% in service, 370 of 572 [64.6%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
319, 39.2%
73G 30%
320 22.7%
738 9.2%
753 4.8%
739 1.4%
752 0%

Widebodies (overall 26.8% in service, 125 of 205 [61%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
763, 764, 772ER/PW, 772ER/GE all parked/stored
78X 76.9%
789 76.7%
77W 72.7%
788 25%
772Domestic 13% (includes 4ERs sked for Domestic config.)
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 7:55 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I see that 788 and its doing a RT IAD-NRT-PEK-NRT-IAD. Seems kind of odd as the 788 has 25% less cargo space than the 789.
UA is moving to smaller units domestically. I see this percentage in service (flying today or scheduled tomorrow)

Narrowbodies (overall 13.8% in service, 370 of 572 [64.6%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
319, 39.2%
73G 30%
320 22.7%
738 9.2%
753 4.8%
739 1.4%
752 0%

Widebodies (overall 26.8% in service, 125 of 205 [61%] stored or parked more than 14 days)
763, 764, 772ER/PW, 772ER/GE all parked/stored
78X 76.9%
789 76.7%
77W 72.7%
788 25%
772Domestic 13% (includes 4ERs sked for Domestic config.)


This wasn't on the schedules from UA but there are a couple of 77U/Ns at least scheduled to do IAD-SJU round trips. Assuming those are cargo only flights...I don't think there are any passenger flights right now on those aircraft.
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lightsaber
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 2:52 am

Folks:
Debate the topic, do not discuss about other users.

Do not discuss moderation in an open forum.

Moderators do not arbitrate truth.

This is an emotional time, please post with a cool head. If you must, agree to disagree.

This topic is about to be locked due to the personal arguments. Please return to posting on topic.

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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 pm

Does anyone have any information on 78X orders? I read somewhere that some options were selected in the Q1 report (7 or 8), obviously before the pandemic. If UA is contractually obligated to take these, would they be more likely to replace 767's or 777's?
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 12:54 pm

cosyr wrote:
Does anyone have any information on 78X orders? I read somewhere that some options were selected in the Q1 report (7 or 8), obviously before the pandemic. If UA is contractually obligated to take these, would they be more likely to replace 767's or 777's?


I don't know how exactly they plan on deploying the new 78Xs but all are slated for delivery in 2021. Other tidbits from their Q1 results UA and Boeing settled on compensation for the MAX debacle.
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 7:23 pm

So I've been going over UA's narrow-body and wide-body aircraft where they are either parked or stored paying particularly close attention to the 767 and 757 fleet.

I noticed of the RR 752 fleet 11 frames are stored at MCO, 5 frames are stored either at SFO, ORD, DEN, or INT. The remaining RR 752 and all the PW 752 are stored at either ROW or GRY. Of the 753s only one frame is stored at ROW the remaining 753 frames are stored either at one of our hubs, MCO or INT. Of the 763 fleet 9 frames are stored at ROW the remaining frames are either stored at ORD, IAH or IAD. Looking at the 764 fleet that entire fleet has been stored at ROW.

Speaking with people who were on the team that oversaw where to store our aircraft they said decisions were based on how long UA believes the aircraft will be out of service. Aircraft at ROW are in long term storage meaning there is a good probability they will not fly again for at least a year or two years if not longer. While aircraft stored at the hubs can be put back into service in 4 to 6 days depending on if it is a narrow-body or a wide-body. Although things can change and may change I this gave me a clearer picture of what UA's fleet could look like in 2021.

I know I spent a great deal of time saying the 752s will come back and who knows those 16 frames stored at the hubs, MCO and INT could make a return. However seeing that the bulk of the 752 fleet is stored at ROW those frames may not fly again. The same goes for the 764s but they were quick to say no final decision has been made but did point out the chances of an aircraft stored at ROW flying out of there within a year or less is highly unlikely. I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 8:54 pm

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 9:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.

Personally, I don't think that's much of a surprise. There's a reason that hardly anybody bought the 737-900 and why Boeing came back with the -900ER. Those 12 airplanes are non-standard and performance limited compared to the rest of the fleet. If UAL has too many airplanes and the choice comes down to parking -900s or -900ERs it's an easy call.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 10:02 pm

Will UA/AA's 757 find life as freighters? I actually thought UA had already had agreements to do that already with UPS.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
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    calpsafltskeds
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Thu May 07, 2020 10:17 pm

    UA does seem to have a plan for these fleets. There are easy ways to see where aircraft are parked, stored or operating. All updated daily and available from fleet site home page (see links bottom of all my posts).

    1.) Fleet site United Mainline Fleet Spreadsheet - it now has a column for parking location - if empty, aircraft is moving today or tomorrow - if the memo portion is filled, it have been on the ground 14+ days and/or in a storage location will location and date entered (If you'd like to find aircraft at an airport, you can do a find Control/F and put in the code and it will highlight those aircraft)

    2.) Fleet site Coronavirus parked spreadsheet - a bit hard to read but 3 tabs - aircraft with shading are parked, stored have text in red or white and no shading shows aircraft moving today or tomorrow. There are stats at the top for operational/parked/stored units by fleet type.

    3.) Map by Ross Paulson that shows numbers and aircraft in each parked/storage location - it's updated daily from Fleet site data.

    Jay's checked out the 757/767 fleet well. I concur that the MCO/INT units will return first (GYR units are in HMV with one completed today). The 753 fleet may return to be hub to hub and maybe Hawaii after startup.
    Also might indicate smaller units will return quicker (738/G and 319/20) while the 739s will take more time (739non-ER might not return).

    Here's a short rundown of parking/storage location by fleet type:
    319: Long term: RFD/7, ROW/3, LCQ/4 - Mid-term: ORD/PDX/DEN
    320: Long term: ROW/15, RFD/12, LCQ/1 - Mid term: DEN/ORD/PDX
    73G: Long term: ROW/1, - Mid-term: INT/2
    738: Long term: ROW/3, MIA/3, RFD/4, INT/3 - Mid-term: CLE15+/IAH15+/HOU/TPA8/LAX/ORD
    739: Long term: ROW/24, RFD/8, INT/5 - Mid term: CLE15+/IAH15+/DEN/ORD (NOTE: ROW includes all 12 739non-ER units)
    752 mentioned by Jayunited
    753: grab bag ORD/DEN/SFO/MCO
    763: Most in IAH or ROW, 764 all ROW
    788: Now flying about half, 2 each in DEN/SFO. 1 in IAD
    789/78X/77W: Mostly flying
    772: Doemstic, ROW/SFO/ORD/Flying
    772PW: IAD/ROW/ORD/SFO
    772GE: IAD/IAH/ROW/ORD/HKG-Mod
     
    VC10er
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 2:08 pm

    Since I have read quite a bit now regarding UA’s 763’s, here and elsewhere, not one thing I have read mentions in particular the High-J 763’s?

    Before COVID-19 I thought those High-J 763’s were fabulous and I loved flying them in Polaris. It really did feel like UA had something great going between EWR & LHR (with Polaris Lounge, etc) to offer a great experience and effectively compete on this coveted route.

    But with demand close to zero, and fear of spending as a Great Recession 2.0 looms...has anyone mentioned these uniquely configured 763’s?
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    redrooster3
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 2:44 pm

    VC10er wrote:
    Since I have read quite a bit now regarding UA’s 763’s, here and elsewhere, not one thing I have read mentions in particular the High-J 763’s?

    Before COVID-19 I thought those High-J 763’s were fabulous and I loved flying them in Polaris. It really did feel like UA had something great going between EWR & LHR (with Polaris Lounge, etc) to offer a great experience and effectively compete on this coveted route.

    But with demand close to zero, and fear of spending as a Great Recession 2.0 looms...has anyone mentioned these uniquely configured 763’s?


    Most, if not, all of the High-Js are stored in IAH and can be active within days if needed.
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    FlyHossD
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 4:10 pm

    airplanedriver6 wrote:
    jayunited wrote:
    I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.

    Personally, I don't think that's much of a surprise. There's a reason that hardly anybody bought the 737-900 and why Boeing came back with the -900ER. Those 12 airplanes are non-standard and performance limited compared to the rest of the fleet. If UAL has too many airplanes and the choice comes down to parking -900s or -900ERs it's an easy call.


    The 739s (non-900ERs) aren't so much performance limited as they are weight limited. For example, if I'm recalling correctly, the Max Landing Weight is about 10,000 pounds lighter on the "straight -900s" as the -900ERs.

    I flew the -900s fairly regularly back in the day (flew #401 in it's first week at CO). The were good for 2 or 3 hour flights (think EWR-Florida) or IAH-LAS and such. But if you had a distant alternate airport, the fuel needed could - and sometimes would - limit the payload. The Network folks seemed to not always understand it's limitations and would sometimes seemingly only count seats and where that number of seats could be used (if you get my meaning).
    My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
     
    EssentialPowr
    Posts: 1707
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 6:23 pm

    FlyHossD wrote:
    airplanedriver6 wrote:
    jayunited wrote:
    I was equally surprised to see all 12 737-900s are stored at ROW.

    Personally, I don't think that's much of a surprise. There's a reason that hardly anybody bought the 737-900 and why Boeing came back with the -900ER. Those 12 airplanes are non-standard and performance limited compared to the rest of the fleet. If UAL has too many airplanes and the choice comes down to parking -900s or -900ERs it's an easy call.


    The 739s (non-900ERs) aren't so much performance limited as they are weight limited. For example, if I'm recalling correctly, the Max Landing Weight is about 10,000 pounds lighter on the "straight -900s" as the -900ERs.

    I flew the -900s fairly regularly back in the day (flew #401 in it's first week at CO). The were good for 2 or 3 hour flights (think EWR-Florida) or IAH-LAS and such. But if you had a distant alternate airport, the fuel needed could - and sometimes would - limit the payload. The Network folks seemed to not always understand it's limitations and would sometimes seemingly only count seats and where that number of seats could be used (if you get my meaning).


    Agreed. The bone stock 900s show a MGTOW of 174700 lbs vs 188200 for the -ER, 147300 vs 157300 for MLW, and 140300 vs 149300 for ZFW. ERs had the new flat aft bulkhead, aft door cutouts, retractable tail skid (2 iterations I believe) and more, plus different LED extension logic. The latter characteristic results in the fasted approach speeds in the business, generally 150 kts plus wind additive. They’re tweaky at flaps 40 in a crosswind; flaps 40 is used mostly in auto land scenarios. United doesn’t have the HUD option, the 737s are autoland.
     
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    calpsafltskeds
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 7:37 pm

    I believe the 739non-ERs have been scheduled successfully in and out of IAH for a couple years or more as stage lengths are not an issue. If UA is grounding aircraft these should be brought back last, but they are capable units that should be saving UA about $50 on landing fees per arrival vs. the ER.
     
    EssentialPowr
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 7:57 pm

    [*]
    calpsafltskeds wrote:
    I believe the 739non-ERs have been scheduled successfully in and out of IAH for a couple years or more as stage lengths are not an issue. If UA is grounding aircraft these should be brought back last, but they are capable units that should be saving UA about $50 on landing fees per arrival vs. the ER.


    They’re certainly utilized in just about every hub as all -900s have great seat mile costs. Not so much a DEN airplane in the winter as only the ERs do the Flaps 5 go around for ice accretion...
     
    CHOWahoo
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 9:40 pm

    United has quietly nixed its plan to issue $2.25bn in debt. Anyone know what's up? Does it not need the money or was the bid/ask not to its liking?
    Source: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/100517/000119312520137726/d920021d8k.htm
     
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    LAXintl
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 9:58 pm

    CHOWahoo wrote:
    United has quietly nixed its plan to issue $2.25bn in debt. Anyone know what's up? Does it not need the money or was the bid/ask not to its liking?
    Source: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/100517/000119312520137726/d920021d8k.htm


    Market reception was cool. Even with 11% coupon rate investors were not excited particularly with old'ish fleet collateral
    From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
     
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    LAXintl
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 9:59 pm

    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image
    From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
     
    CHOWahoo
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:03 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Market reception was cool. Even with 11% coupon rate investors were not excited particularly with old'ish fleet collateral


    Ouch. I had been hearing high-single digits yesterday, so things obviously deteriorated.
     
    MIflyer12
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:04 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    CHOWahoo wrote:
    United has quietly nixed its plan to issue $2.25bn in debt. Anyone know what's up? Does it not need the money or was the bid/ask not to its liking?
    Source: https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/100517/000119312520137726/d920021d8k.htm


    Market reception was cool. Even with 11% coupon rate investors were not excited particularly with old'ish fleet collateral


    That is a very bad sign two ways:

    1. It wasn't intended to be entirely incremental debt: From the 8-K on 5/6/20

    United intends to use the net proceeds from the offering of the Notes to repay the $2.0 billion aggregate principal amount outstanding under the
    term loan facility that United entered into on March 9, 2020 and, to the extent that any net proceeds remain, for general corporate purposes. The final
    terms and amounts of the Notes are subject to market and other conditions and may be materially different than expectations.


    2. The debt markets are starting to segregate winners and losers. Another carrier borrowed a lot more $ at a much lower rate recently.
     
    United1
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:55 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    So that works out to roughly 45 of the 756 fleet making it through this. All of the 777 and 787 fleets should be fine.

    Please note I’m assuming 5 CAs per plane in the fleet if that number is higher the number of aircraft will be less.
    Last edited by United1 on Fri May 08, 2020 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    tphuang
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:55 pm

    I guess given this kind of reception, UA pretty much has to take the gov't loans. If they can't even get buyers with 11% interest, that's not a good sign.
     
    CriticalPoint
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 10:58 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    I really wish people would stop posting internal communications. The more it happens the less information we get.

    We don’t get to see the planned WB aircraft vs. destination chart anymore because people keep posting it online.
     
    Nicknuzzii
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:16 pm

    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    Do you have the pre Covid numbers?
     
    Nicknuzzii
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:17 pm

    CriticalPoint wrote:
    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    I really wish people would stop posting internal communications. The more it happens the less information we get.

    We don’t get to see the planned WB aircraft vs. destination chart anymore because people keep posting it online.


    Why is this a problem for you or something the airline would care about?
     
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    calpsafltskeds
    Posts: 3223
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:26 pm

    319:
    N836UA exited DLH 2755/8May with 12F/36E+/78Y configuration.
    69 of 74 complete.

    772:
    N76010 sked to exited HKG 2864/10May w/Polaris/PP
    772GE #20 of 22 complete (N78013 expected to exit HKG soon, N77014 stored in IAH)

    78X:
    N13013 first revenue flight 989/5May IAD-FRA
    Last edited by calpsafltskeds on Fri May 08, 2020 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
     
    redrooster3
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:35 pm

    This looks like the end for the 764s and PW757s. In an email I got earlier today.

    "Currently, we’ve parked 450 mainline aircraft and 300 United Express aircraft across 23 locations. Some of those planes were already slated for retirement, including our B767-400 and B757 PS fleets."
    Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
     
    CriticalPoint
    Posts: 1062
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Fri May 08, 2020 11:54 pm

    Nicknuzzii wrote:
    CriticalPoint wrote:
    LAXintl wrote:
    Headcount targets for widebody fleet with the displacement bid.

    Image


    I really wish people would stop posting internal communications. The more it happens the less information we get.

    We don’t get to see the planned WB aircraft vs. destination chart anymore because people keep posting it online.


    Why is this a problem for you or something the airline would care about?


    Maybe they don’t care. It just irks me when I see screen grabs of company communications. I prefer to get more information from the company but this shows we can’t be trusted with more information.
     
    UA444
    Posts: 2997
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 1:36 am

    redrooster3 wrote:
    This looks like the end for the 764s and PW757s. In an email I got earlier today.

    "Currently, we’ve parked 450 mainline aircraft and 300 United Express aircraft across 23 locations. Some of those planes were already slated for retirement, including our B767-400 and B757 PS fleets."

    Bigger bombshell is the fact they previously planned to retire the 764 in the first place.
     
    United1
    Posts: 4164
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 1:43 am

    UA444 wrote:
    redrooster3 wrote:
    This looks like the end for the 764s and PW757s. In an email I got earlier today.

    "Currently, we’ve parked 450 mainline aircraft and 300 United Express aircraft across 23 locations. Some of those planes were already slated for retirement, including our B767-400 and B757 PS fleets."

    Bigger bombshell is the fact they previously planned to retire the 764 in the first place.


    That is a big bombshell but I suppose not all that surprising after the additional 78X orders.

    I wonder if UA had/has a buyer lined up for them. UA generally markets their former aircraft to airlines they don't compete with so will be interesting to see where they end up.
    I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
     
    smartplane
    Posts: 1508
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 2:04 am

    Airlines are being circumspect about fleet plans. Partly because they don't know. Partly because it might trigger labour issues / negotiations. Partly because if there is a floating charge over them, lenders must be informed if permanently withdrawn from service. And partly because if any book value (usually the result of improvements, major service, significant new / overhauled parts) values need to be reviewed and written down / off promptly.
     
    jayunited
    Posts: 2867
    Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 2:19 am

    redrooster3 wrote:
    This looks like the end for the 764s and PW757s. In an email I got earlier today.

    "Currently, we’ve parked 450 mainline aircraft and 300 United Express aircraft across 23 locations. Some of those planes were already slated for retirement, including our B767-400 and B757 PS fleets."



    I wonder when they made the decision about the 764s because as recently as January the 764s are showing schedule for Polaris/PE installations slated to begin later this year.

    However January 2020 is the last update in they system for Polaris/PE because by late February it was clear things were about to change. Also when were the additional 78X orders were place and was this top off order the nail that sealed the 764s fate? Would love to see that email perhaps next week UA will make some type of public announcement.
     
    codc10
    Posts: 2869
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 4:14 am

    Projected WB staffing numbers suggest little augmented (long haul) flying. Not a surprise...

    tphuang wrote:
    I guess given this kind of reception, UA pretty much has to take the gov't loans. If they can't even get buyers with 11% interest, that's not a good sign.


    These aren’t the only airplanes UA can collateralize. The package was basically a refinance at a pretty favorable loan to value rate. The tepid reaction is a bit of a surprise, though.

    Speaks more to the industry outlook than a particularly grim sign for United, insofar as the market doesn’t see much value in 18-20 year old frames... and US carriers have a lot of them.
     
    KFTG
    Posts: 858
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 5:25 am

    The Fed is buying junk bonds. Wonder if they’d be interested?
     
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    janders
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    Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 5:37 am

    Not pretty outcome for United.
    Lets see if they go back to the market with a reduced size bond offer.

    Late on Friday, after some 48 hours of frantic attempts to lure investors to their faltering bond sale, executives at United Airlines let it be known that the deal was dead.

    It was an odd moment, stuck smack in the middle of one of the busiest corporate bond booms ever, a period in which investors have shown themselves to be receptive to almost any debt offer backed by good collateral. But this last part was where United got in trouble. For collateral, it had scraped together 360 old jets, some of which analysts considered would be nearly worthless in a few years.



    When United pawned old jets, bond traders sent a stark warning
    https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airline ... rk-warning
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