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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 5:05 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
This looks like the end for the 764s and PW757s. In an email I got earlier today.

"Currently, we’ve parked 450 mainline aircraft and 300 United Express aircraft across 23 locations. Some of those planes were already slated for retirement, including our B767-400 and B757 PS fleets."


Interesting, but since the 764 wasn't already slated for retirement, it does call into question the accuracy of the information.


The accuracy of the information is confirmed I have also seen the email which does state the PW 752s and the 764s are slated for retirement.

More than likely that decision on the 764s were made after the January Polaris/PE schedule update which there hasn't been an updated schedule since January when prior to COVId-19 there were monthly updates at the very least. Not sure what impact the additional 78X order had on the decision to retire the 764 fleet. But obviously sometime after mid-January UA made a decision to order more 78Xs and retire the 764s. Coronavirus may have sped up UA's timetable but just because things have changed since January does not mean the information posted is in accurate. Most insiders on this thread are posting the most accurate information we have at the time o four post. The decision to retire the 764s was not made known to employees until this week, just as the decision to exercise options for 7 additional 78Xs was not known publicly until UA released their Q1 results. Although insiders like myself over 2 years ago were posting that we had seen internal documents showing the 78X fleet being larger than just 14 frames.
 
nonrevelite
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 5:36 pm

jayunited wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
This looks like the end for the 764s and PW757s. In an email I got earlier today.

"Currently, we’ve parked 450 mainline aircraft and 300 United Express aircraft across 23 locations. Some of those planes were already slated for retirement, including our B767-400 and B757 PS fleets."


Interesting, but since the 764 wasn't already slated for retirement, it does call into question the accuracy of the information.


The accuracy of the information is confirmed I have also seen the email which does state the PW 752s and the 764s are slated for retirement.

More than likely that decision on the 764s were made after the January Polaris/PE schedule update which there hasn't been an updated schedule since January when prior to COVId-19 there were monthly updates at the very least. Not sure what impact the additional 78X order had on the decision to retire the 764 fleet. But obviously sometime after mid-January UA made a decision to order more 78Xs and retire the 764s. Coronavirus may have sped up UA's timetable but just because things have changed since January does not mean the information posted is in accurate. Most insiders on this thread are posting the most accurate information we have at the time o four post. The decision to retire the 764s was not made known to employees until this week, just as the decision to exercise options for 7 additional 78Xs was not known publicly until UA released their Q1 results. Although insiders like myself over 2 years ago were posting that we had seen internal documents showing the 78X fleet being larger than just 14 frames.


Thank you MSPNWA; and JayUnited, I have seen the same emails it doesn’t state the 767-400s are slated for retirement!
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Aircraft : Over 60 types including the B-17
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EssentialPowr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 9:19 pm

Codc10, “ Again, I wouldn't read the bond failure as a sign United is on the brink of anything, and certainly not as an indictment of management.”

I never mentioned United is on the brink of anything, only that there is even more pressure on them. United’s leadership is really struggling with credibility with the employees it seems, and once again UAL is way too top heavy with HR and social issue types and has wasted a lot of money on things that don’t have a direct ROI for an airline.
 
Runway28L
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 9:59 pm

xxcr wrote:
Anyone heard about UA not bringing back the 764? i follow Diecastjames on instagram, and he posted something this morning saying "united has decided they wont bring back their 764 fleet after this virus blows over"

if this is true, i guess it paid off for UA to hold off the polaris retrofit for that plane.

I wouldn’t read too much into it. There is so much misinformation being spread by aviation enthusiasts right now on Instagram.
 
 
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comairguycvg
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Looks like Star Wars is going to KINT tomorrow.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N36272
Worked at: CV62, RJTA, KNLC, CV63, KNFL, OKAJ, KTRI, CV67, KMGE, KNQX, KVPS, KPIT, KCVG, KTYS, KATL
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 11:07 pm

Looks like there are a few aircraft flying out of XMN on Monday 5/11/2020.

But first N2142U will fly HKG-XMN as UA2745-11 there will be a total of 11 pilots on board the inbound flights and N2142UA will remain at XMN for maintenance.

N783UA operates 2750-11 XMN-SFO 4 pilots
N2140U operates 2746-11 XMN-HKG 2 pilots
N880UA operates 2703-11 XMN-NRT 3 pilots
N798UA operates 2690-11 XMN-HKG 2 pilots

Both 77Es have Polaris/PE installed, the 77W was there I think for maintenance and I'm not sure about the A319.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 11:16 pm

codc10 wrote:
EssentialPowr wrote:
With the failure of the bond issue, UAL is under even more pressure to reduce costs. The 30% size reduction is the start of the new baseline size. Every work group will get the 30% as of 1 Oct, with certain leadership indicating pilots should draw their own conclusions give the info UAL has put out. It’s time for new UAL management, as the current committee (which should be a singular person in crisis) is clueless.

TSA numbers show 215000 screened yesterday compared to 171000 a week ago; we will all take that improvement!


The incremental growth is a good sign, but we are still <10% of where we were this time last year. In other words, still at crisis level.

Again, I wouldn't read the bond failure as a sign United is on the brink of anything, and certainly not as an indictment of management. Its purpose was a refinance of existing aircraft-secured debt to extract more cash, and the market is saying it does not believe old aircraft (especially 737s and A320s) have much value. United's ability to pay is priced in, as well, but the real concern last week was the quality of the asset. I think everyone was surprised by the result.

In challenging times, management is always "clueless". But this is no ordinary recession, downturn or otherwise. There's really no blueprint for success here.

tphuang wrote:
jayunited wrote:

You do make a great point about domestic vs international.

I do believe in the beginning the recovery will be primarily domestic, then perhaps by the fall/winter season it may spread to beach locations in the Caribbean and Mexico. Although UA was the weakest domestic carrier when compared to AA, DL and WN, could AA's financial position provide UA with an opening to hit the reset button domestically and perhaps gain some much needed domestic market share.

Looking at UA's current fleet what would be a good strategy going forward for UA to gain domestic market share seeing that we have the largest wide-body fleet but the smallest narrow-body fleet? Are our wide-bodies useless in a fight for a larger piece of the domestic market?


I think grouping DL/WN together is unwarranted. WN will have more cash than debt at end of Q2, whereas DL will be swimming in debt by the end of Q2. In term of financial health, it's more like
AA <gap> UA <gap> DL <huge gap> WN

I think coming into this, AA and UA were in about the same position in terms of how much trouble they are in. AA had higher debt/fixed costs but UA was more exposed in terms of all the widebodies + international exposure. Two months in and it's clear that AA's management is just not up to task. They are burning 50% more cash per day than UA.

At this point, we are not going to have V shaped recovery and probably likely not a U shaped recovery, but a L shaped recovery. Given that's the case, airlines will still be struggling next year to break even for much of the year. There just no way AA avoids chapter 11. This recent attempt by UA at raising debt that's backed by older widebodies should show the market simply isn't going to value aircraft at the same way that even third party appraisers are going to. If investors are scared of your liquidity position, they are just not going to take unencumbered aircraft as assets. So aside from CARES act loans, I'm really not sure where else AA can get loans from. UA has tried pretty hard thus far, but I think it will have to take the gov't loans also. The difference is that I think UA actually has a good chance of avoiding the courts as long as it keeps the burn rate low. Yes, it will probably end up reducing its work force by 1/3 in order to lower its burn rate to like $20 million a day in Q4, but that's at least a honest way of looking at the danger of the situation. AA is acting like it will resume 80% of flying by next Q2 when it's burning $70 million a day in Q2. By my calculation, they will be down to $4 billion liquidity by end of this year even including the additional loan from federal gov't. And DL is talking about trying to be cash neutral by the end of this year while burning $50 million a day in June? That seems wildly optimistic.

And once AA hits the courts, it's going to really cut its work force and fleet and those precious slots at LGA/DCA and gates at LAX/ORD are going to get lost too. I would not be surprised if AA comes out of this smaller than UA. At least with UA, I could see a way for them to get out of this in another year and bring back some of its work force. I do expect UA to be substantially smaller a year from, probably 30% smaller. As for how long it will take UA to recover, that's really a matter of both domestic economy and TATL/TPAC demand.


I only classify DL and WN together as they were clearly viewed a notch or two healthier than UAL entering the crisis.

I agree that the leadership positions industry could very well be reshuffled in this recovery.

There’s an SEC filing that lists the aircraft involved as collateral. It’s essentially everything owned from the 1990s to mid 2000s. 737s, Airbus, 757, 767, 777. I was quite shocked that it was rejected as well, as in years past planes of similar age have been used as collateral before.

The lenders view a lot of those aircraft as low hanging fruit to be cut the longer this goes on. I wonder if they’ll try to sweeten the pot by including newer planes in there, if that option is available to them.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... dex101.htm
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 11:25 pm

Of interest to the 767-400 and 757 discussion, the current pilot displacement was amended late Friday afternoon with a couple hundred fewer displacements. The pilots were also told that the 756 fleet would be sized to support 767-300ER flying. The displacement now anticipates 225 captains on the 756 fleet systemwide and United typically staffs approximately six captains per aircraft. There are 38 767-300ERs.

Do the math. ;)

(But all subject to change, of course. The plan is constantly changing in this environment.)
Last edited by airplanedriver6 on Sun May 10, 2020 11:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 11:26 pm

3857 - 757-300 scheduled DEN-LSE-ELP-DEN tomorrow. assuming LSE-ELP is a military charter. Good for UA to find some creative solutions to keep these birds flying.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 11:27 pm

airplanedriver6 wrote:
Of interest to the 767-400 and 757 discussion, the current pilot displacement was amended late Friday afternoon with a couple hundred fewer displacements. The pilots were also told that the 756 fleet would be sized to support 767-300ER flying. The displacement now anticipates 225 captains on the 756 fleet systemwide and United typically staffs approximately six captains per aircraft. There are 38 767-300ERs.

Do the math. ;)

Would basically mean they keep all 763s and dump all 757s and 764s. Painful, but necessary. Some of those 763s have cheated retirement plans like a sport.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 12:07 am

airplanedriver6 wrote:
Of interest to the 767-400 and 757 discussion, the current pilot displacement was amended late Friday afternoon with a couple hundred fewer displacements. The pilots were also told that the 756 fleet would be sized to support 767-300ER flying. The displacement now anticipates 225 captains on the 756 fleet systemwide and United typically staffs approximately six captains per aircraft. There are 38 767-300ERs.

Do the math. ;)

(But all subject to change, of course. The plan is constantly changing in this environment.)


Perhaps the reason for the fewer displacements is because we are starting to see a slight ( and I stress slight) uptick in demand. Even for last minute tickets more people are starting to fly again but this does not mean it is safe to assume the industry has bottomed out.

I do not have any new information concerning the 757s or 767s, but UA is talking about pulling around 20 narrow-body (I would assume 737s and A320/19s) out of storage for the June domestic schedule. Again right now this is just talk but UA may might be some additional domestic flying added back into the June schedule.

Another reason UA is considering reactivating some narrow-body aircraft is because we are violating our own social distancing policy. Remember airlines voluntarily decided to adopt the CDC's social distancing guidelines on-board so passengers would feel more comfortable. This past Friday May 8th UA saw its highest load factor since early April and even today we are seeing a lot more people flying than what we expected back in April when the May schedule was finalized. These higher load factors have made social distancing a bit challenging on some domestic flights.

Keep in mind for the month of May UA is only flying 10% of a normal schedule so again this does not mean we have turned the corner in this crisis, but it is a nice to see more people flying domestically.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 12:11 am

UA444 wrote:
airplanedriver6 wrote:
Of interest to the 767-400 and 757 discussion, the current pilot displacement was amended late Friday afternoon with a couple hundred fewer displacements. The pilots were also told that the 756 fleet would be sized to support 767-300ER flying. The displacement now anticipates 225 captains on the 756 fleet systemwide and United typically staffs approximately six captains per aircraft. There are 38 767-300ERs.

Do the math. ;)

Would basically mean they keep all 763s and dump all 757s and 764s. Painful, but necessary. Some of those 763s have cheated retirement plans like a sport.

Yes.

But it should also be noted that the displacement represents in many ways a worst case scenario. UAL can move all the way to just 767-300s, or keep the entire 756 fleet, or easily flex to anything in-between.
 
NLINK
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 1:00 am

Something else people don't fully realize is a to of these decisions are being made by the CFO. For those saying no way the 767-400ER will not. be retired before the 767-300ER you have to look at the bigger picture as it is actually the odd ball fleet and odd ball engines.
If the cut out the GE CF6, which there only 16 AC, they will be able to have the GE90, GEnx, and PW4000. Same thing AA did, going from 6 WB engines to 3 WB engines.
 
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keesje
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 7:25 am

Ishrion wrote:
Ishrion wrote:


Now they’ve updated it to “United Considers Retiring 767-400s”


Maybe Delta will pick them up eventually, but they arenot in a hurry either.
They seems succesfull with fleet end of life strategy's.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 2:12 pm

Thanks Jay, confirming
319:
N880UA, Ex China Southern B-2296 exited XMN Induction 2703/11May, headed to USA via ANC

772:
N783UA exited XMN 2750/11May in Polaris/PP, completing 772PW Polaris program (3 stored ITPE 772PWs to become Domestic in limbo)
N798UA exited maint XMN 26900/11May

77W: N2140U exited XMN maint 2855/11May
77W: N2142U entered XMN maint 2145/11May

RE 764s, UA must be parking the 764 until the aircraft sell as they are too valuable to scrap vs. older 763s. Looking at all the above posts it makes sense to dump that fleet under the current circumstances. 1.) demand down/cash crisis, 2.) Polaris not installed, 3.) small fleet with only CF6 engines in entire fleet, 4.) resale value, 5.) how many believe pilot pay difference vs. 763 was a factor?
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 2:42 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
5.) how many believe pilot pay difference vs. 763 was a factor?

I believe that it was one of many factors that combined made the 764 more expensive to operate. The higher pilot expenses as a stand-alone figure did not move the needle much, IMHO, especially considering that a loaded 764 also generated much more revenue than a 763.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 2:52 pm

airplanedriver6 wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
5.) how many believe pilot pay difference vs. 763 was a factor?

I believe that it was one of many factors that combined made the 764 more expensive to operate. The higher pilot expenses as a stand-alone figure did not move the needle much, IMHO, especially considering that a loaded 764 also generated much more revenue than a 763.


Yes, in a reduced passenger demand environment, the calculus now is in favor of cargo capacity versus pax (favoring 777, 787), and absent that, lower fixed costs (favoring 763, 787). 764 is optimized as a pax hauler.

Not to mention that UA has dumped $1b++ capex in cabin mods for the 767 and 777 fleets, for which it would desperately like to generate a return. The 764's most recent major discretionary capex items are interiors for which, by now, UA has likely depreciated and recovered the capital cost.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 6:16 pm

On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 7:12 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 7:45 pm

Doubtful as only on Friday in his TechOps update the VP posted the picture of the 737MAX-10 being built in Seattle with the following statement:

Looking ahead
I know it seems like it is a long way off but there will come a time when things will begin to look normal again and initiatives such as growing the fleet won’t seem like a strange concept. Although we won’t be taking delivery of this aircraft in the near future, our third 737 MAX 10, which is currently in the final assembly phase at the Boeing factory. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the day when we will once again see our fleet fly the friendly skies.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
EssentialPowr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 8:12 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Doubtful as only on Friday in his TechOps update the VP posted the picture of the 737MAX-10 being built in Seattle with the following statement:

Looking ahead
I know it seems like it is a long way off but there will come a time when things will begin to look normal again and initiatives such as growing the fleet won’t seem like a strange concept. Although we won’t be taking delivery of this aircraft in the near future, our third 737 MAX 10, which is currently in the final assembly phase at the Boeing factory. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the day when we will once again see our fleet fly the friendly skies.


Is this individual VP named?
 
DC8FanJet
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 8:57 pm

A decision that impactful would have to be declared in an SEC filing. No filings by company since earnings release
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 9:00 pm

In other news, Brett Hart promoted to President of United effective May 20.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 56911.html
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 9:42 pm

United1 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


Mike Boyd tends to shoot from the hip often, so this United 737MAX10 cancellation may have come to him during a "tinfoil hat" fever dream? I'm a regular reader of his "Monday Insights" and often runs wild with industry rumors.

As for canceling the 737MAX10, it would be odd considering that United is the launch customer and had the variant designed to their specifications.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:29 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
United1 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


Mike Boyd tends to shoot from the hip often, so this United 737MAX10 cancellation may have come to him during a "tinfoil hat" fever dream? I'm a regular reader of his "Monday Insights" and often runs wild with industry rumors.

As for canceling the 737MAX10, it would be odd considering that United is the launch customer and had the variant designed to their specifications.

I don't know about reputability, but it is here too from May 2. https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... rders.html
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:37 pm

So if this Max -10 cancellation is true what in the world is the plan for Transcons?
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:41 pm

Sounds like non-sense to me.

The MAX orders were covered last week in the Q1 report.

https://ir.united.com/node/23576/html

The table shows 171 firm commitments for the type in addition to 14 delivered already.

Additionally, UA confirms it reached a settlement with Boeing for MAX delays in the form of credit memos to be issued at future dates upon taking delivery of aircraft.

Zero mention of any cancellations. Only that deliveries have slipped and been rescheduled for subsequent years.
I fly your boxes
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:43 pm

cosyr wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
United1 wrote:

It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


Mike Boyd tends to shoot from the hip often, so this United 737MAX10 cancellation may have come to him during a "tinfoil hat" fever dream? I'm a regular reader of his "Monday Insights" and often runs wild with industry rumors.

As for canceling the 737MAX10, it would be odd considering that United is the launch customer and had the variant designed to their specifications.

I don't know about reputability, but it is here too from May 2. https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... rders.html


That was a deferral, not an outright cancellation. Either Mike Boyd misinterpreted the MAX deferral or he is privy to insider information the vast majority of us are not.
 
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KVH68
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:31 pm

In the Boyd Group link above, the article says United is cancelling 96 MAX 10. In the United fleet Wikipedia page, it says United has 100 MAX 10 on order. Is United only taking 4 MAX 10 aircraft?
 
Ishrion
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:46 pm

The P&W 757s and 767-400ERs were placed into long-term storage

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... 757s-767s/
 
windy95
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:53 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Doubtful as only on Friday in his TechOps update the VP posted the picture of the 737MAX-10 being built in Seattle with the following statement:

Looking ahead
I know it seems like it is a long way off but there will come a time when things will begin to look normal again and initiatives such as growing the fleet won’t seem like a strange concept. Although we won’t be taking delivery of this aircraft in the near future, our third 737 MAX 10, which is currently in the final assembly phase at the Boeing factory. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the day when we will once again see our fleet fly the friendly skies.


Is this individual VP named?


Tom Doxey runs Tech Ops
 
airboss787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:38 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


If that is true, could that be a sign that they may have switched to another aircraft Boeing may launch soon? One of all the plethora of rumors going around from NMA, 767X, 757X, etc. The 737-10 was supposed to be the best placed aircraft from Boeing to compete with transcon routes and other 757 routes.
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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:13 am

cosyr wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
United1 wrote:

It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


Mike Boyd tends to shoot from the hip often, so this United 737MAX10 cancellation may have come to him during a "tinfoil hat" fever dream? I'm a regular reader of his "Monday Insights" and often runs wild with industry rumors.

As for canceling the 737MAX10, it would be odd considering that United is the launch customer and had the variant designed to their specifications.

I don't know about reputability, but it is here too from May 2. https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... rders.html


The travel plus article is miss quoting the points guy. In the points guy blog he says UA is only taking about half the number of MAXes they had originally planned over the next 18 months. Which is absolutely true but that doesn't mean UA canceled any orders...that may just be because Boeing cut production. I'm not sure if UAs agreement with Boeing regarding the MAX pre or post dates Covid.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... ronavirus/
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:51 am

Doesn’t UA have atleast 185 MAX’s in order? They ordered 61 Max 9s originally followed by 100 Max 10s. They than made a top up order for 24 more Max 9s.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 3:23 am

8 posts up UPlog says 171 outstanding deliveries citing an SEC filing.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 3:38 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Doesn’t UA have atleast 185 MAX’s in order? They ordered 61 Max 9s originally followed by 100 Max 10s. They than made a top up order for 24 more Max 9s.


Yup...and they have taken delivery of 14 of them and have 171 remaining on order per UAs 10Q. Keep in mind that some of the MAXs might have been converted to a different model. There are fleet numbers assigned to MAX8s at UA but we don’t know exactly how many or when.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 3:45 am

United1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Doesn’t UA have atleast 185 MAX’s in order? They ordered 61 Max 9s originally followed by 100 Max 10s. They than made a top up order for 24 more Max 9s.


Yup...and they have taken delivery of 14 of them and have 171 remaining on order per UAs 10Q. Keep in mind that some of the MAXs might have been converted to a different model. There are fleet numbers assigned to MAX8s at UA but we don’t know exactly how many or when.


Thank you. Some still believe UA only has 134 or 161 Max on order for some reason.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 5:38 am

Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 6:04 am

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

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KFTG
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 6:20 am

“More widebodies” is the opposite of what United needs right now.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:43 pm

UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


United has over 200 wide-bodies the last thing we need is more wide-bodies. Once this crisis is completely behind us in perhaps 2-3 years UA will face the same problem we faced prior to COVID-19 which is not enough narrow-bodies and we also have a lot of narrow bodies that are over 20 years old. United needs the MAX-8/9/10, crisis or no crisis we have A320s, 738s and 757s that need to be replaced over the next few years.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:46 pm

UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


United has over 200 wide-bodies the last thing we need is more wide-bodies. Once this crisis is completely behind us in perhaps 2-3 years UA will face the same problem we faced prior to COVID-19 which is not enough narrow-bodies and we also have a lot of narrow bodies that are over 20 years old. United needs the MAX-8/9/10, crisis or no crisis we have A320s, 738s and 757s that need to be replaced over the next few years.


UA will be well served to put in an order for A220. A220-100 would help them increase 76 seaters and A220-300 would be the right aircraft to replace all the old A320/737-800s.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:21 pm

tphuang wrote:

UA will be well served to put in an order for A220. A220-100 would help them increase 76 seaters and A220-300 would be the right aircraft to replace all the old A320/737-800s.


Well, two problems:

1. When could they get some A220s in meaningful quantity? 2024, when the COVID-19 thing is (hopefully) over? When are they going to be able to finance a bunch of new aircraft on acceptable terms?

2. UA hasn't shown any interest in operating anything that small with mainline costs. Looking at Planespotters.net for deliveries of NEW aircraft I didn't find anything smaller than a 738 going all the way back to the CO merger in October 2010.

This may not be popular with pilots seeking mainline jobs but Delta is the outlier with 717s and A220-100s. AA, UA and WN just haven't gone that small.
 
ILikeTrains
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:28 pm

codc10 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.


I don’t want to take the thread too off course, but what about AA’s 788’s are “diet.”
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

UA will be well served to put in an order for A220. A220-100 would help them increase 76 seaters and A220-300 would be the right aircraft to replace all the old A320/737-800s.


Well, two problems:

2. UA hasn't shown any interest in operating anything that small with mainline costs.


Under the assumption that this downturn in demand will be short-lived (2-5 years hypothetically) the mainline costs for smaller mainline A/C might be solvable by leasing the glut of E190s that are about to hit the market. Mainline costs might be higher for the E190 versus any 737 model on full flights but if flights are only going to carrying 50-80 pax, then the 100-seater might actually become more cost effective while at the same time releasing more 76-seater slots.

On the other hand, acquiring any new type with all the training and ground support required when you have hundreds of capable planes parked and trained pilots waiting for the 'green light' to come back to work is probably not the best use of resources. All bets are off if fuel costs go sky high again.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:35 pm

ILikeTrains wrote:
codc10 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.


I don’t want to take the thread too off course, but what about AA’s 788’s are “diet.”


https://leehamnews.com/2018/04/17/boein ... mmonality/

In connection with the most recent AA order, Boeing implemented some production changes to the 787-8 to bring it into greater commonality with the 787-9/10.
 
Ishrion
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Anchorage Airport Wants United To Operate ANC-SIN (With Pax)

Tue May 12, 2020 8:30 pm

In a response to United requesting rights to transport cargo (and potentially pax) between Hong Kong and Singapore, Anchorage Airport requests United to operate a 777-300ER flight between ANC and SIN instead.

The aircraft can take a high load, approximately 80% of passengers without a significant reduction in belly cargo capacity


Their reasoning is operating from one of United's hubs to Anchorage and then to Singapore instead of Hong Kong to Singapore isn't much longer thanks to its location, a non-stop to Singapore would benefit the economy, United can resume ANC sooner since they received exemption from the CARES Act, and the flight could allow passengers (Singaporeans) to escape the "hot and humid climate" among other reasons.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0047-0003
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:52 pm

Nonsense comments by ANC.

UA operates double daily HKG-LAX cargo run, plus day of week HKG-SFO and ORD cargo flights and wanted to tag SIN onto these service. No need to introduce ANC into the mix.

Anyhow the first flight already operated into SIN, a 787 that continued to SFO after HKG stop.

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