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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:41 pm

Sounds like non-sense to me.

The MAX orders were covered last week in the Q1 report.

https://ir.united.com/node/23576/html

The table shows 171 firm commitments for the type in addition to 14 delivered already.

Additionally, UA confirms it reached a settlement with Boeing for MAX delays in the form of credit memos to be issued at future dates upon taking delivery of aircraft.

Zero mention of any cancellations. Only that deliveries have slipped and been rescheduled for subsequent years.
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codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:43 pm

cosyr wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
United1 wrote:

It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


Mike Boyd tends to shoot from the hip often, so this United 737MAX10 cancellation may have come to him during a "tinfoil hat" fever dream? I'm a regular reader of his "Monday Insights" and often runs wild with industry rumors.

As for canceling the 737MAX10, it would be odd considering that United is the launch customer and had the variant designed to their specifications.

I don't know about reputability, but it is here too from May 2. https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... rders.html


That was a deferral, not an outright cancellation. Either Mike Boyd misinterpreted the MAX deferral or he is privy to insider information the vast majority of us are not.
 
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KVH68
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:31 pm

In the Boyd Group link above, the article says United is cancelling 96 MAX 10. In the United fleet Wikipedia page, it says United has 100 MAX 10 on order. Is United only taking 4 MAX 10 aircraft?
 
Ishrion
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:46 pm

The P&W 757s and 767-400ERs were placed into long-term storage

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... 757s-767s/
 
windy95
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:53 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Doubtful as only on Friday in his TechOps update the VP posted the picture of the 737MAX-10 being built in Seattle with the following statement:

Looking ahead
I know it seems like it is a long way off but there will come a time when things will begin to look normal again and initiatives such as growing the fleet won’t seem like a strange concept. Although we won’t be taking delivery of this aircraft in the near future, our third 737 MAX 10, which is currently in the final assembly phase at the Boeing factory. I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the day when we will once again see our fleet fly the friendly skies.


Is this individual VP named?


Tom Doxey runs Tech Ops
 
airboss787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:38 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


If that is true, could that be a sign that they may have switched to another aircraft Boeing may launch soon? One of all the plethora of rumors going around from NMA, 767X, 757X, etc. The 737-10 was supposed to be the best placed aircraft from Boeing to compete with transcon routes and other 757 routes.
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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:13 am

cosyr wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
United1 wrote:

It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


Mike Boyd tends to shoot from the hip often, so this United 737MAX10 cancellation may have come to him during a "tinfoil hat" fever dream? I'm a regular reader of his "Monday Insights" and often runs wild with industry rumors.

As for canceling the 737MAX10, it would be odd considering that United is the launch customer and had the variant designed to their specifications.

I don't know about reputability, but it is here too from May 2. https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... rders.html


The travel plus article is miss quoting the points guy. In the points guy blog he says UA is only taking about half the number of MAXes they had originally planned over the next 18 months. Which is absolutely true but that doesn't mean UA canceled any orders...that may just be because Boeing cut production. I'm not sure if UAs agreement with Boeing regarding the MAX pre or post dates Covid.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... ronavirus/
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:51 am

Doesn’t UA have atleast 185 MAX’s in order? They ordered 61 Max 9s originally followed by 100 Max 10s. They than made a top up order for 24 more Max 9s.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 3:23 am

8 posts up UPlog says 171 outstanding deliveries citing an SEC filing.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 3:38 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Doesn’t UA have atleast 185 MAX’s in order? They ordered 61 Max 9s originally followed by 100 Max 10s. They than made a top up order for 24 more Max 9s.


Yup...and they have taken delivery of 14 of them and have 171 remaining on order per UAs 10Q. Keep in mind that some of the MAXs might have been converted to a different model. There are fleet numbers assigned to MAX8s at UA but we don’t know exactly how many or when.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 3:45 am

United1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Doesn’t UA have atleast 185 MAX’s in order? They ordered 61 Max 9s originally followed by 100 Max 10s. They than made a top up order for 24 more Max 9s.


Yup...and they have taken delivery of 14 of them and have 171 remaining on order per UAs 10Q. Keep in mind that some of the MAXs might have been converted to a different model. There are fleet numbers assigned to MAX8s at UA but we don’t know exactly how many or when.


Thank you. Some still believe UA only has 134 or 161 Max on order for some reason.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 5:38 am

Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.
 
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 6:04 am

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
KFTG
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 6:20 am

“More widebodies” is the opposite of what United needs right now.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:43 pm

UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


United has over 200 wide-bodies the last thing we need is more wide-bodies. Once this crisis is completely behind us in perhaps 2-3 years UA will face the same problem we faced prior to COVID-19 which is not enough narrow-bodies and we also have a lot of narrow bodies that are over 20 years old. United needs the MAX-8/9/10, crisis or no crisis we have A320s, 738s and 757s that need to be replaced over the next few years.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:46 pm

UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.
 
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


United has over 200 wide-bodies the last thing we need is more wide-bodies. Once this crisis is completely behind us in perhaps 2-3 years UA will face the same problem we faced prior to COVID-19 which is not enough narrow-bodies and we also have a lot of narrow bodies that are over 20 years old. United needs the MAX-8/9/10, crisis or no crisis we have A320s, 738s and 757s that need to be replaced over the next few years.


UA will be well served to put in an order for A220. A220-100 would help them increase 76 seaters and A220-300 would be the right aircraft to replace all the old A320/737-800s.
 
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:21 pm

tphuang wrote:

UA will be well served to put in an order for A220. A220-100 would help them increase 76 seaters and A220-300 would be the right aircraft to replace all the old A320/737-800s.


Well, two problems:

1. When could they get some A220s in meaningful quantity? 2024, when the COVID-19 thing is (hopefully) over? When are they going to be able to finance a bunch of new aircraft on acceptable terms?

2. UA hasn't shown any interest in operating anything that small with mainline costs. Looking at Planespotters.net for deliveries of NEW aircraft I didn't find anything smaller than a 738 going all the way back to the CO merger in October 2010.

This may not be popular with pilots seeking mainline jobs but Delta is the outlier with 717s and A220-100s. AA, UA and WN just haven't gone that small.
 
ILikeTrains
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:28 pm

codc10 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.


I don’t want to take the thread too off course, but what about AA’s 788’s are “diet.”
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

UA will be well served to put in an order for A220. A220-100 would help them increase 76 seaters and A220-300 would be the right aircraft to replace all the old A320/737-800s.


Well, two problems:

2. UA hasn't shown any interest in operating anything that small with mainline costs.


Under the assumption that this downturn in demand will be short-lived (2-5 years hypothetically) the mainline costs for smaller mainline A/C might be solvable by leasing the glut of E190s that are about to hit the market. Mainline costs might be higher for the E190 versus any 737 model on full flights but if flights are only going to carrying 50-80 pax, then the 100-seater might actually become more cost effective while at the same time releasing more 76-seater slots.

On the other hand, acquiring any new type with all the training and ground support required when you have hundreds of capable planes parked and trained pilots waiting for the 'green light' to come back to work is probably not the best use of resources. All bets are off if fuel costs go sky high again.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:35 pm

ILikeTrains wrote:
codc10 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.


I don’t want to take the thread too off course, but what about AA’s 788’s are “diet.”


https://leehamnews.com/2018/04/17/boein ... mmonality/

In connection with the most recent AA order, Boeing implemented some production changes to the 787-8 to bring it into greater commonality with the 787-9/10.
 
Ishrion
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Anchorage Airport Wants United To Operate ANC-SIN (With Pax)

Tue May 12, 2020 8:30 pm

In a response to United requesting rights to transport cargo (and potentially pax) between Hong Kong and Singapore, Anchorage Airport requests United to operate a 777-300ER flight between ANC and SIN instead.

The aircraft can take a high load, approximately 80% of passengers without a significant reduction in belly cargo capacity


Their reasoning is operating from one of United's hubs to Anchorage and then to Singapore instead of Hong Kong to Singapore isn't much longer thanks to its location, a non-stop to Singapore would benefit the economy, United can resume ANC sooner since they received exemption from the CARES Act, and the flight could allow passengers (Singaporeans) to escape the "hot and humid climate" among other reasons.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0047-0003
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:52 pm

Nonsense comments by ANC.

UA operates double daily HKG-LAX cargo run, plus day of week HKG-SFO and ORD cargo flights and wanted to tag SIN onto these service. No need to introduce ANC into the mix.

Anyhow the first flight already operated into SIN, a 787 that continued to SFO after HKG stop.

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXoq68JUMAA ... name=small
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codc10
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Re: Anchorage Airport Wants United To Operate ANC-SIN (With Pax)

Tue May 12, 2020 9:19 pm

Ishrion wrote:
In a response to United requesting rights to transport cargo (and potentially pax) between Hong Kong and Singapore, Anchorage Airport requests United to operate a 777-300ER flight between ANC and SIN instead.

The aircraft can take a high load, approximately 80% of passengers without a significant reduction in belly cargo capacity


Their reasoning is operating from one of United's hubs to Anchorage and then to Singapore instead of Hong Kong to Singapore isn't much longer thanks to its location, a non-stop to Singapore would benefit the economy, United can resume ANC sooner since they received exemption from the CARES Act, and the flight could allow passengers (Singaporeans) to escape the "hot and humid climate" among other reasons.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0047-0003


Wow, that was poorly-written. I don't recall a comment from ANC objecting to United's (since-denied) exemption request under CARES, proposing to defer seasonal ANC service until July 6.

Seems like a weak attempt to persuade the government into allowing cabotage for one of the several Asian carriers with major ANC operations.
 
LGeneReese
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 10:17 pm

789
N24979 First revenue flight UA863 SFOSYD 12May

Interesting that N29978, delivered a week earlier, still sitting in IAD.
 
N649DL
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:17 am

UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


It's rather shocking as the 764ERs are almost the same age as many of the 777s and 763s. I think it's short sighted to divided your widebody fleet only between 787-8, 787-9, 777-200, and 777-300. IIRC, all 787s don't have newer Polaris J-Class yet either. Those 763s were mostly nailed "New J" nose-to-tail so a shame they could be rumored to leave.

They should be pulling down the ERJ and aging 737s if you ask me.
 
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:31 am

A couple pertinent Q&A from recent townhall.

Q. Going forward, what is the planned mission for the 756 fleet?
A. Our current plan is to operate solely 767-300 variant aircraft from ORD, EWR and IAH to Europe and Latin America markets. We will continue to evaluate plans for the remainder of 756 fleet as demand evolves.

Q. If DCA and IAH 777 closure are temporary, what is the definition of temporary?
A. The DCA 777 and IAH 777 categories are expected to remain closed for a least 24 months.

Q. Why is the number of 320 vs 737 lineholders for June so lopsided in most bases?
A. Network Planning is utilizing the most efficient airplanes for the current reduced travel demand. This means that we aren’t flying A320 and B737-900 aircraft in June. The bulk of flying is being done by the smaller A319s, with B737-700s being the second most-utilized sub-fleet.

Q. What is happening with all the LAX international flying with 787 base closure?
A. Based on current Network Planning forecast, LAX is unlikely to see a resumption of its long haul flying this year.

Q. Would it be feasible to convert B777 "A" models to all cargo when they come up for heavy checks, or converting some of the parked aircraft into freighters? Or could we take delivery of an all-cargo B777 directly from Boeing?
A. There is a lot of cost associated with converting current aircraft or purchasing new freighters. Additionally, the financial risk associated operating freighters is much different than our traditional model. The spike in cargo demand we are experiencing will likely not be long term trend once significant passenger flight capacity returns to the market.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:37 am

Thanks for sharing. Lots of red flags throughout starting with the 756 fleet question.

1.) Pretty much secure what we already knew that PW 757s are done, along with the 764s. Now what happens with the remaining 752s?

2.) With the shift of 777s will EWR and SFO receive too much capacity? That’s 96 widebodies based at 2 hubs amongst 767s and 787s too.

3.) Unfortunately, something maybe we saw before this but LAX is toast. Rest In Peace.
 
Sooner787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 3:10 am

United1 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
On the Aviation Planning site, Mike Boyd is reporting in his Monday Insight column today that United has cancelled their order for B737MAX10's. Some Google searches have not turned up any confirmation, yet. You have to scroll down in his Monday rant, but he briefly mentions the cancellation.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


It's possible but in March UA had reached an agreement with BA for compensation for the entire mess. Cancelations were not mentioned in UAs 10Q...just a reduction in price. They also mentioned on the Q1 call UA plans on taking delivery of 16 737MAXs this year and 24 next year contingent on the grounding being lifted.

I wonder if UA swapped its -10s for other smaller 737 models vs an outright cancelation.


IIRC........ United had reached a deal with Boeing to take many of the ex- Jet Airways Max 8 white tails as part of their settlement.

Plus if UA still plans on taking the A321XLR's , the Max 10 becomes unnecessary. Wonder if we'll ever see that first Max 10
prototype enter flight test. let alone ever see service to an airline?
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 4:11 am

codc10 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Don’t know why they don’t just leverage Boeing’s screw ups with the MAX into more 767-300s which they wanted to buy new just two years ago but Boeing wouldn’t budge on price. Now Boeing is in deep you know what and instead of taking on a bunch of 737s that every Joe Blow on the street has heard bad things about, get the new 767s to replace some of the older ones and hold you over until a viable 757 replacement shows up.


Boeing balked at resuming pax 767 production, too, and I still think it strongly wants United to take on the "diet" 787-8 ordered by AA to replace its 763s.

That is one option as well. It just depends on how long the MAX stays grounded (outside of the virus). The longer it goes on, the better the odds UA can leverage a deal out of Boeing on what they want, not necessarily what Boeing wants.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 4:18 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
2.) With the shift of 777s will EWR and SFO receive too much capacity? That’s 96 widebodies based at 2 hubs amongst 767s and 787s too.


Just because the crew bases are EWR and SFO does not mean the flying and thus aircraft will solely from those two hubs. United can and certainly will cover other flying from those 777 bases.

Good example is all the LAX 777 cargo flying today. Often double daily flights to Asia all covered by SFO based pilots as LAX does not have a 777 base any longer.
I fly your boxes
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 1:03 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Plus if UA still plans on taking the A321XLR's , the Max 10 becomes unnecessary.

Maybe, maybe not.

The MAX 10 and the XLR have similar passenger capacity but are range optimized for two different markets. The MAX 10 has transcontinental range but not transatlantic as it has the shortest range of all the MAX variants, meanwhile the longer transatlantic range of the XLR is wasted domestically. UAL doesn't need to spend $$$ for the extra performance of an XLR compared to other 321 variants (or MAXs) for domestic flying.

In the end it will come down to the strategic plan. There is not a rush as right now as I don't think the fleet guys working in Willis are thinking too hard about airplanes that have not flown yet and are just trying to ensure UAL has a plan to get to 2022.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 1:05 pm

LAXintl wrote:
A couple pertinent Q&A from recent townhall.

Q. Going forward, what is the planned mission for the 756 fleet?
A. Our current plan is to operate solely 767-300 variant aircraft from ORD, EWR and IAH to Europe and Latin America markets. We will continue to evaluate plans for the remainder of 756 fleet as demand evolves.

Q. If DCA and IAH 777 closure are temporary, what is the definition of temporary?
A. The DCA 777 and IAH 777 categories are expected to remain closed for a least 24 months.

Q. Why is the number of 320 vs 737 lineholders for June so lopsided in most bases?
A. Network Planning is utilizing the most efficient airplanes for the current reduced travel demand. This means that we aren’t flying A320 and B737-900 aircraft in June. The bulk of flying is being done by the smaller A319s, with B737-700s being the second most-utilized sub-fleet.

Q. What is happening with all the LAX international flying with 787 base closure?
A. Based on current Network Planning forecast, LAX is unlikely to see a resumption of its long haul flying this year.

Q. Would it be feasible to convert B777 "A" models to all cargo when they come up for heavy checks, or converting some of the parked aircraft into freighters? Or could we take delivery of an all-cargo B777 directly from Boeing?
A. There is a lot of cost associated with converting current aircraft or purchasing new freighters. Additionally, the financial risk associated operating freighters is much different than our traditional model. The spike in cargo demand we are experiencing will likely not be long term trend once significant passenger flight capacity returns to the market.


How long will it take to see this reflected in the schedule?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:22 pm

RE 321XLR vs. MAX 10,
It would make sense to have common types, so one might thing a larger XLR fleet might be worth the extra landing fees and fuel expense to "commonize" by dropping the MAX10 and buying more 321XLRs for Transcons.
However, there will probably be different seats setups for TATL and Transcon premium seating, including maybe a different J seat. Maybe even a 4 or 5 across PP cabin on TATL.
If UA was looking at more 321s, it might make more sense to buy the NEO or LR, but that adds a fleet type as well and they would duplicate the MAX9 fleet.
I like that Airbus dropped Door 2, which allows a sliding configuration that hopefully will allow mid cabin lav at the back of J/F seating.
I'm sure Boeing would be giving a screaming deal on the MAX10s due to MAX issues and it has lower operating costs/landing fees.
 
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Polot
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:27 pm

In the end UA is still planning on having a large 737-8/9 fleet, so having Max 10s really isn’t any added complication even though they are similar in size to the A321XLR, which let’s not forget is still 5 years away from delivery for UA (and 4 years away from EIS period).
 
LAXdude1023
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:34 pm

Does this mean no 777s from ORD, IAD, and IAH Doing long haul flying?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
tphuang
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:52 pm

I think XLR is a gateway drug for UA from Airbus. If UA likes it, they'd more willing to replace some of existing A319/320s with NEO series down the line.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:55 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Does this mean no 777s from ORD, IAD, and IAH Doing long haul flying?

Essentially no. Will there be a few oddball routes? Yes.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 3:16 pm

Just hypothetical thinking here, if UA is basing the 777s at EWR and SFO, what are they planning on doing with them? We will probably see around 45ish based at EWR but on what routes? Transcons? TATL? Relieve some of the congestion and put them on routes like EWR - MCO/TPA/CUN/FLL?
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1615
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 3:18 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Does this mean no 777s from ORD, IAD, and IAH Doing long haul flying?

Essentially no. Will there be a few oddball routes? Yes.


If the 77A's go away, you basically have as many 777's as you do 787's (by the end of next year) so you can see why they'd want to rationalize them.

On the good side, this just might mean that the ORD>HNL/OGG routes could go 1) away or 2) to 78J. Terrible experience on those so it would be welcome.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6193
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 3:50 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Does this mean no 777s from ORD, IAD, and IAH Doing long haul flying?

Essentially no. Will there be a few oddball routes? Yes.


Im guessing Asia from those cities will be served with a 788/789 then.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1257
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 4:12 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Does this mean no 777s from ORD, IAD, and IAH Doing long haul flying?

Essentially no. Will there be a few oddball routes? Yes.


Im guessing Asia from those cities will be served with a 788/789 then.

Pre-COVID, ORD was going to go all-787 save for ORD-GRU, ORD-HNL, ORD-OGG, and the 777HD hub-to-hub runs.

United Airlines Is Finally Bringing the Boeing 787 Back to Chicago
United will soon fly Dreamliners on all of its flights between Chicago and Asia
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 4:56 pm

they should keep the 764's and use them on the SFO/LAX-EWR as PS birds. dedicated route for the 764 like the old days when UA flew a mix of 763 and 762 on the SFO-JFK route!
 
CriticalPoint
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 5:27 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Just hypothetical thinking here, if UA is basing the 777s at EWR and SFO, what are they planning on doing with them? We will probably see around 45ish based at EWR but on what routes? Transcons? TATL? Relieve some of the congestion and put them on routes like EWR - MCO/TPA/CUN/FLL?


Don’t think in absolutes all the company is saying is for now we only see the 777 doing flying out of EWR and SFO. Not all 777 will be flying for a while. DCA and IAH will come back slowly. They will start with W rotations with SFO and EWR crews then once there is enough routes to justify a pilot base they will reopen it......sounds like 2 years.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 5:32 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Just hypothetical thinking here, if UA is basing the 777s at EWR and SFO, what are they planning on doing with them? We will probably see around 45ish based at EWR but on what routes? Transcons? TATL? Relieve some of the congestion and put them on routes like EWR - MCO/TPA/CUN/FLL?


Don’t think in absolutes all the company is saying is for now we only see the 777 doing flying out of EWR and SFO. Not all 777 will be flying for a while. DCA and IAH will come back slowly. They will start with W rotations with SFO and EWR crews then once there is enough routes to justify a pilot base they will reopen it......sounds like 2 years.


When I got my 45 number I took into account some 777 flying from other hubs. In total UA has 96 777s. UA plans to have more 777 crew based at EWR than SFO. When you look at the proportions it shows EWR will receive at 42-46 SFO 38-42 and the rest (11-16) will be flown through other hubs.
 
flight152
Posts: 3457
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 5:43 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Thanks for sharing. Lots of red flags throughout starting with the 756 fleet question.

1.) Pretty much secure what we already knew that PW 757s are done, along with the 764s. Now what happens with the remaining 752s?

2.) With the shift of 777s will EWR and SFO receive too much capacity? That’s 96 widebodies based at 2 hubs amongst 767s and 787s too.

3.) Unfortunately, something maybe we saw before this but LAX is toast. Rest In Peace.

There has been zero official aircraft retirements, just long term storage of the 752 and 764’s. Not sure where everyone is getting this from
 
United1
Posts: 4185
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 5:47 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Just hypothetical thinking here, if UA is basing the 777s at EWR and SFO, what are they planning on doing with them? We will probably see around 45ish based at EWR but on what routes? Transcons? TATL? Relieve some of the congestion and put them on routes like EWR - MCO/TPA/CUN/FLL?


Don’t think in absolutes all the company is saying is for now we only see the 777 doing flying out of EWR and SFO. Not all 777 will be flying for a while. DCA and IAH will come back slowly. They will start with W rotations with SFO and EWR crews then once there is enough routes to justify a pilot base they will reopen it......sounds like 2 years.


When I got my 45 number I took into account some 777 flying from other hubs. In total UA has 96 777s. UA plans to have more 777 crew based at EWR than SFO. When you look at the proportions it shows EWR will receive at 42-46 SFO 38-42 and the rest (11-16) will be flown through other hubs.


I don't have any hard information on this but I don't think UA will come out of this with 96 777s in service...maybe 73. I'm sort of expecting the 200As and the 4 200ERs that were going to be converted to HD to be parked. Keep in mind the utilization rate of the remaining 777s will be lower and I would expect to see lots of them rotate in and out of temporary storage.
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FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 6:50 pm

adamblang wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Essentially no. Will there be a few oddball routes? Yes.


Im guessing Asia from those cities will be served with a 788/789 then.

Pre-COVID, ORD was going to go all-787 save for ORD-GRU, ORD-HNL, ORD-OGG, and the 777HD hub-to-hub runs.


I'm pretty sure ORD-GRU was slated to go 787 this Fall along with ORD-HND. So that would just have left the domestic routes.

With the 777s moving mostly to SFO and EWR, I could see that freeing up some 787s from those bases to move to IAH, IAD, etc. For example, I could see SFO-ICN and SFO-PVG moving from 789s to 772s (or SFO-PVG could drop back to a single daily flight on a 77W). At EWR, perhaps 772s would take back some 78J routes like EWR-DUB, EWR-BCN, or EWR-CDG, with the 78Js moving to IAD-FRA, IAD-MUC, etc.
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sdh9
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 7:40 pm

flight152 wrote:
There has been zero official aircraft retirements, just long term storage of the 752 and 764’s. Not sure where everyone is getting this from


I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Every airplane that is in long-term storage in ROW or whatever is a candidate for retirement.

We just won't know for 18-24 months which ones truly are retired.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8263
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 7:53 pm

sdh9 wrote:
flight152 wrote:
There has been zero official aircraft retirements, just long term storage of the 752 and 764’s. Not sure where everyone is getting this from


I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Every airplane that is in long-term storage in ROW or whatever is a candidate for retirement.

We just won't know for 18-24 months which ones truly are retired.


Sorry, but that's why we have standards in financial reporting. If UA makes a decision to retire a subfleet there will be a write-down of aircraft and parts announced in an SEC filing. No carrier can pretend long-term that parked assets are unimpaired.

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