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fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 12:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think UA's biggest challenge coming out of this is defending its hubs. Especially DEN, it will be in an uphill fight with WN who has all the money in the world to sustain a loss leading operation to gain market share. I would not be surprised if they buy out F9 to just get their gates at DEN. Remember, UA will also face WN pressure in the bay area, chicago and houston. UA's biggest challenge all across the country is a WN with a war chest of cash and very little debt.

When it comes to SE, I think FLL/MIA is not a great idea, but it will certainly be more open. AA I think will be a lot smaller at MIA given their weak financial position and slow return of deep south America flying. FLL will be quite open since both B6 and WN are likely to focus on bringing back other cities first. I don't think it makes sense for a legacy to build up at a primarily LCC airport. There will be plenty of space at MIA if they wanted to attempt it. I doubt they will. I don't see NK and F9 both remaining independent after this. Either they merge with each other or get taken over by WN or B6.

Does it really make sense for UA to buy an airline for narrowbody aircraft when used aircraft will be widely available at low cost from all the downsized airlines around the world?


I know it's only one O&D, but I'm booking a few trips on CLE>DEN and I'm a 1mm on UA so I rarely even look at WN, but this time I did. For both trips, WN is $198 and $240 RT each way and UA is $388 (plus an unreliable schedule in June still shows 4x daily). On some level, you need to be "close" on price and then also have a reliable schedule. Undoubtedly, UA will lose some share in the short term (Q2) primarily because they are not really flying vs. WN who is flying more. Come Q3, we'll see. I agree, UA will be in a dog fight in DEN.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 12:55 pm

A glimmer of hope for some junior United flight attendants.

Its no secret UA has a lot of senior FA's with 30, 40, 50 even 60 years seniority still working for the company. However many of those FA's have taken voluntary leave in fact out of more that 24,000 FA's at least 12,000 have taken voluntary leave. One of my long time friends has 28 years he has taken 6 months off and he has told me many of his senior (yes even with 28 years there are a ton of FA's with more seniority than him) coworkers are inquiring if they can extend their leave to a year or more they simply don't want to fly until this crisis is over.

At first I dismissed his claims but in a Business Insider article Kirbys mentioned UA may not have to furlough a single flight attendant because in a world where demand is down 50%, UA already has 50% of our FA's on voluntary leave. So perhaps UA is considering extending voluntary leave for FA's beyond 6 months. While this is may be good new for junior FA's, it's not good news for IAM represented employees. UA still has not reach any agreement with the IAM and that work group has one the lowest participation rates in any of UA's voluntary programs. According to Kirby furloughing employees would help get UA through this crisis but at the same time it would make a snap back difficult. But temporarily reducing IAM represented employees hours would save a lot of jobs and UA would restores those hours as demand returns. I still have a lot of friends at ORD on the ramp and C.S. I'm not sure they will go for this even if it means more people keeping their job. I'm also hearing the number of dispatchers facing furlough might drop do to retirements.

What is clear is this Kirby wants United Airlines ready to go as demand returns how does he achieve that goal while avoiding labor disputes is going to be key.

https://www.businessinsider.com/united- ... urs-2020-5
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 1:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think UA's biggest challenge coming out of this is defending its hubs. Especially DEN, it will be in an uphill fight with WN who has all the money in the world to sustain a loss leading operation to gain market share. I would not be surprised if they buy out F9 to just get their gates at DEN. Remember, UA will also face WN pressure in the bay area, chicago and houston. UA's biggest challenge all across the country is a WN with a war chest of cash and very little debt.

When it comes to SE, I think FLL/MIA is not a great idea, but it will certainly be more open. AA I think will be a lot smaller at MIA given their weak financial position and slow return of deep south America flying. FLL will be quite open since both B6 and WN are likely to focus on bringing back other cities first. I don't think it makes sense for a legacy to build up at a primarily LCC airport. There will be plenty of space at MIA if they wanted to attempt it. I doubt they will. I don't see NK and F9 both remaining independent after this. Either they merge with each other or get taken over by WN or B6.

Does it really make sense for UA to buy an airline for narrowbody aircraft when used aircraft will be widely available at low cost from all the downsized airlines around the world?

I've thought for a long time that if UA were ever to try a focus city (which they seem to have no interest in, so this is just spitballing) BNA would be a great opportunity. The city has been growing steadily, and property values continue to increase. Also for UA, it is equidistant between IAH and IAD. UA doesn't need a MIA type hub. They have IAH for Latin America. If they need a SE hub or focus city, it would serve as more of CLT type hub with domestic connections and a few flights to Europe based on O&D demand. I think UA should pursue it now, and start building a customer base there, like DL is doing in RDU.

Most of UA's hubs are in large and prosperous cities, but Houston has struggled with the ups and downs of Oil in the last decade, and CLE was a city struggling to maintain the level of business that made it a logical hub in the 80's to early 90's when it was conceived (much the way MEM, CVG and STL have declined.) BNA would be a bet in the growth of a new area of the country, so UA doesn't get left out, since they don't have much of a foothold in North Carolina, another growing area of the country. Someday, it could work out the way that IAD is beginning to. Northern Virginia is becoming to DC, what Northern NJ is to NYC, a self-sustaining more affluent market, not whole dependent on the entire metro area with which it is associated.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 1:05 pm

fun2fly wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think UA's biggest challenge coming out of this is defending its hubs. Especially DEN, it will be in an uphill fight with WN who has all the money in the world to sustain a loss leading operation to gain market share. I would not be surprised if they buy out F9 to just get their gates at DEN. Remember, UA will also face WN pressure in the bay area, chicago and houston. UA's biggest challenge all across the country is a WN with a war chest of cash and very little debt.

When it comes to SE, I think FLL/MIA is not a great idea, but it will certainly be more open. AA I think will be a lot smaller at MIA given their weak financial position and slow return of deep south America flying. FLL will be quite open since both B6 and WN are likely to focus on bringing back other cities first. I don't think it makes sense for a legacy to build up at a primarily LCC airport. There will be plenty of space at MIA if they wanted to attempt it. I doubt they will. I don't see NK and F9 both remaining independent after this. Either they merge with each other or get taken over by WN or B6.

Does it really make sense for UA to buy an airline for narrowbody aircraft when used aircraft will be widely available at low cost from all the downsized airlines around the world?


I know it's only one O&D, but I'm booking a few trips on CLE>DEN and I'm a 1mm on UA so I rarely even look at WN, but this time I did. For both trips, WN is $198 and $240 RT each way and UA is $388 (plus an unreliable schedule in June still shows 4x daily). On some level, you need to be "close" on price and then also have a reliable schedule. Undoubtedly, UA will lose some share in the short term (Q2) primarily because they are not really flying vs. WN who is flying more. Come Q3, we'll see. I agree, UA will be in a dog fight in DEN.

I have seen similar things. We have a wedding in September to (hopefully) attend in DC. WN from ALB to BWI was $49 each way, and UA wanted $240 round trip for Basic Economy to IAD. Not outrageous, but still more than double. I know that's not apples to apples between BWI and IAD, but I was cross shopping it, so they should factor that in.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 1:09 pm

Growing a new hub organically is an expensive undertaking, requiring considerable appetite for losses, even in a good economy. No way is it in the cards for any of the US3 over the next 2-3 years.

Scott Kirby has been very hub-centric in his time at United, and there's no reason to think he won't resume his prior (successful) strategy of growing United's mid-continent hubs, which are still generally smaller than their equivalents at AA/DL.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 1:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think UA's biggest challenge coming out of this is defending its hubs. Especially DEN, it will be in an uphill fight with WN who has all the money in the world to sustain a loss leading operation to gain market share. I would not be surprised if they buy out F9 to just get their gates at DEN. Remember, UA will also face WN pressure in the bay area, chicago and houston. UA's biggest challenge all across the country is a WN with a war chest of cash and very little debt.

When it comes to SE, I think FLL/MIA is not a great idea, but it will certainly be more open. AA I think will be a lot smaller at MIA given their weak financial position and slow return of deep south America flying. FLL will be quite open since both B6 and WN are likely to focus on bringing back other cities first. I don't think it makes sense for a legacy to build up at a primarily LCC airport. There will be plenty of space at MIA if they wanted to attempt it. I doubt they will. I don't see NK and F9 both remaining independent after this. Either they merge with each other or get taken over by WN or B6.

Does it really make sense for UA to buy an airline for narrowbody aircraft when used aircraft will be widely available at low cost from all the downsized airlines around the world?


UA, and before them CO, and WN have had a somewhat complimentary relationship.. I point to during the merger of UA and CO they choose to give the 18 EWR slots that belonged to pre merger UA to WN. Also they choose to lease their two gates at Dallas Love Field to WN. WN left IAH, and recently left EWR. They aren't really adversaries. Recently, before COVID, UA pulled back their CLE flying from DCA and LGA. The DCA slots UA decided to use to increase EWR-DCA frequencies. We never figured out what they were planning for the five LGA slots they were using for CLE. I would not be shocked if they discussed a lease to WN.

In Denver UA and WN seem to co-exist very well, UA stated it had become it's most profitable hub even in the face of WN's exponential growth. In terms of future growth at DEN I think UA made out like a bandit with the City of Denver adding new gates as well as acquiring a dozen or so on concourse A. In Houston there seemed to be a possible competitive face off as WN got the city of Houston to build a FIS at Hobby airport. UA and Jeff Smisek in particular made a huff. But in the end it didn't turn out to be much of anything, WN launched some new International routes, but ended up dropping most. The one's they still fly don't have much of an effect on UA's operation at IAH.

WN and UA co-exist in Chicago, Denver, Oakland/ San Francisco, Houston and Baltimore/Washington. I would look for WN to grow in LGA.

I think B6 probably has the most to fear from WN. WN has pretty much been pushing B6 out of LGB, they're the number 1 carrier at MCO and they handle twice as many passengers from LGA than B6. If AA were to sell some assets, such as slots in the NYC market, look for WN.
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 3:01 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Some color from VP of Flt Ops about demand and schedule outlook.

Many of you have written about a competitor who is adding 100 flights and you are asking about what we are doing. One metric I like to track is the TSA passenger throughput. You can see for yourself that traffic, unfortunately, is still incredibly low. On May 19 for example, only 190,477 passengers passed through TSA checkpoints compared to 2,312,727 on the same day last year. We are seeing very minor improvements, but the improvements are painfully slow. There were days in March and April where we saw fewer than 10,000 passengers fly on United aircraft. Yesterday we carried a total of 32,417 passengers with 28,043 revenue passengers, 1,008 positive space travelers and 3,366 NRSA travelers. Last year at this time we would have carried well over 500,000 passengers daily. The good news is that in July our schedule is planned to be down about 75% down vs. the 90% reduced schedule we will fly in May and June. We will seek to add flying back in a responsible way that allows us to add capacity where it makes sense, but also allows us to be laser focused on cost to reduce our daily cash burn.

.... basically don't look for UA to add blanket capacity. Focus on filing existing flying and minimizing cash burn is the priority.


I would agree.

Now is not the time to add flying for sake of market share or simply to say you have X number of flights.

Focus needs to be on keeping the red ink to a minimum and survival long term.


Related with pulled down schedules anyone known how hub banks and connectivity is working today?
Obviously banks are much smaller and presume far fewer.
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 4:46 pm

UPlog wrote:
Related with pulled down schedules anyone known how hub banks and connectivity is working today?
Obviously banks are much smaller and presume far fewer.


Yes the hub banks have been reshaped. For example ORD basically has two primary banks with the May schedule - around 915am and 530pm to consolidate connecting traffic flow.
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 5:05 pm

STT757 wrote:
UA, and before them CO, and WN have had a somewhat complimentary relationship.. I point to during the merger of UA and CO they choose to give the 18 EWR slots that belonged to pre merger UA to WN. Also they choose to lease their two gates at Dallas Love Field to WN. WN left IAH, and recently left EWR. They aren't really adversaries. Recently, before COVID, UA pulled back their CLE flying from DCA and LGA. The DCA slots UA decided to use to increase EWR-DCA frequencies. We never figured out what they were planning for the five LGA slots they were using for CLE. I would not be shocked if they discussed a lease to WN.

In Denver UA and WN seem to co-exist very well, UA stated it had become it's most profitable hub even in the face of WN's exponential growth. In terms of future growth at DEN I think UA made out like a bandit with the City of Denver adding new gates as well as acquiring a dozen or so on concourse A. In Houston there seemed to be a possible competitive face off as WN got the city of Houston to build a FIS at Hobby airport. UA and Jeff Smisek in particular made a huff. But in the end it didn't turn out to be much of anything, WN launched some new International routes, but ended up dropping most. The one's they still fly don't have much of an effect on UA's operation at IAH.

WN and UA co-exist in Chicago, Denver, Oakland/ San Francisco, Houston and Baltimore/Washington. I would look for WN to grow in LGA.

I think B6 probably has the most to fear from WN. WN has pretty much been pushing B6 out of LGB, they're the number 1 carrier at MCO and they handle twice as many passengers from LGA than B6. If AA were to sell some assets, such as slots in the NYC market, look for WN.


"Co-exist" is a very kind way of saying "fierce competitors."

I don't really understand how you arrive at your conclusion. UA's weakness is the domestic market, which happens to be WN's greatest strenght. WN is a substantial competitor in virtually all of UA's hub markets. They have by far the least debt out of the big four, and they are best poised to bounce back the soonest as domestic travel is going to come back first. WN would love to eat UA's lunch at their hubs. They certainly were doing that for some time in places like DEN when management was asleep at the wheel for years.

Once travel demand returns, I expect UA to aggressively fight to keep and grow its domestic market share in its hub markets. WN and others that are stronger domestically could gobble it up pretty quickly if UA flinches. Good thing UA has a great management team.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
UALifer
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 5:51 pm

UPlog wrote:
Related with pulled down schedules anyone known how hub banks and connectivity is working today?
Obviously banks are much smaller and presume far fewer.


Banks aren't actually that much smaller, just significantly fewer.

ORD has two banks - 75-80 departures each
DEN has two banks - 65-70 departures each
IAH has two banks - 60-65 departures each
SFO has two banks - 30-35 departures each
IAD has one bank - 65-70 departures
LAX and EWR don't have connecting banks (and didn't really before this either)
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 6:07 pm

intotheair wrote:
STT757 wrote:
UA, and before them CO, and WN have had a somewhat complimentary relationship.

In Denver UA and WN seem to co-exist very well, UA stated it had become it's most profitable hub even in the face of WN's exponential growth.

WN and UA co-exist in Chicago, Denver, Oakland/ San Francisco, Houston and Baltimore/Washington. I would look for WN to grow in LGA.


"Co-exist" is a very kind way of saying "fierce competitors."


By my count Southwest serves 90 stations in the 50 U.S. states while United serves 238. So yes Southwest and United compete head-to-head getting folks between Denver and Los Angles or between Chicago and Houston. But there's a lot of places they don't compete:

  • Anybody trying to travel to/from small/medium-sized cities in the U.S. doesn't have Southwest as an option
  • Anybody who's interested in status on an airline who ever needs to visit a small/medium-sized city is going to have to think hard about flying Southwest in markets Southwest does serve
  • Southwest isn't competing for passengers who care about premium cabins, lounges, or things like that
  • Southwest isn't a threat when it comes to anybody flying to international destinations that aren't resort Caribbean or Latin America destinations

Even though Southwest is the largest U.S. airline by domestic passengers transported, there are massive swaths of the market they don't compete for at all. American and Delta, however, are fighting over all of those market segments.

In the Kirby era, we've seen all sorts of small-market stations added, all of which Southwest doesn't serve, many of which American and Delta don't serve, which I assume is an effort to insulate United against competition and bolster the value proposition of "United should be your airline of choice because it can get you anywhere better than anyone else can."

Is Southwest a competitor? Absolutely. Is it the most direct competitor? No.
 
dca1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 9:11 pm

Due to UA's perceived narrowbody shortage relative to its peers... which airline would UA likely attempt to acquire/merge to remedy the lack of narrowbody frames? Perhaps NK? In the process eliminating an annoying industry competitor while acquiring their new aircraft and order book?
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 12:52 am

dca1 wrote:
Due to UA's perceived narrowbody shortage relative to its peers... which airline would UA likely attempt to acquire/merge to remedy the lack of narrowbody frames? Perhaps NK? In the process eliminating an annoying industry competitor while acquiring their new aircraft and order book?


Unions have made mergers cost prohibitive and messy. When the MAX issues get solved, UA will have plenty of narrowbody planes to fill any gaps they might have in addition to the used A/C they're getting from China Eastern and Southwest. They supposedly also have picked up canceled MAX deliveries slots from other carriers so theoretically, they could acquire new planes much faster than TK (training center) can pump out new pilots.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 1:34 pm

789 New Delivery:
N29975 sked first revenue flight 1144/23May after extensive wing damage repair at ORD during new delivery Induction.
Aircraft was first delivered with Polaris/PP installed. Currently 5 in service delivered with Polaris plus 2 with completed Polaris mod.

United continues to add some flights and upgrade some flights with larger aircraft. Currently there are about 175 units flying today.
70 are Widebodies, Most 788s, 789, 78X and 77W units flying cargo. Plus a two 763s and five 772A/PW
108 Narrowbodies flying today: 319 28, 320 25, 73G 9, 738 25, 739 16, 752 0, 753 5. A few days ago there were very few 739s and 753s.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 2:28 pm

Not sure if this is true or not but hearing that quite a few aircraft are going to be coming back into service. I believe around 50 737-900ers along with multiple other fleets to a lesser extent.
 
LGeneReese
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 8:35 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
789 New Delivery:
N29975 sked first revenue flight 1144/23May after extensive wing damage repair at ORD during new delivery Induction.
Aircraft was first delivered with Polaris/PP installed. Currently 5 in service delivered with Polaris plus 2 with completed Polaris mod.


Note that four additional 789s were delivered and flying while 0975 was being repaired.. :gasp:
 
wn676
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 9:40 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
789 New Delivery:
N29975 sked first revenue flight 1144/23May after extensive wing damage repair at ORD during new delivery Induction.
Aircraft was first delivered with Polaris/PP installed. Currently 5 in service delivered with Polaris plus 2 with completed Polaris mod.

United continues to add some flights and upgrade some flights with larger aircraft. Currently there are about 175 units flying today.
70 are Widebodies, Most 788s, 789, 78X and 77W units flying cargo. Plus a two 763s and five 772A/PW
108 Narrowbodies flying today: 319 28, 320 25, 73G 9, 738 25, 739 16, 752 0, 753 5. A few days ago there were very few 739s and 753s.


I just landed in IAD on 0975. Unsurprisingly it looks and smells immaculate inside. Here’s a pic of the #1 side wing:

Image
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
LGeneReese
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 5:54 am

Looks like Boeing did a good job buffing out the dents. :bigthumbsup: ... I have doubts about this sort of damage being covered under the warrantee though...
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 7:15 am

UAX Update:

E175SC:
N609UX entered service with Skywest
N617UX entered service with Skywest
N604UX entered service with Skywest
N618UX entered service with Skywest
These frames ferried BOI for Skywest induction: 605, 612, 613

CR2:
N463AW back in service
N466AW back in service
N939SW parked at TUS
N928SW parked at TUS
N906EV back in service
N880AS parked at TUS

E145XR:
N17196 back in service
The following units have exited the fleet (stored at IGM): N13118, N17108, N34110

E145:
N11539 parked at TYS
N19554 parked at TYS
N18557 parked at TYS
N12900 parked at TYS
The following units have exited the fleet (stored at IGM): N11536, N15574, N10575, N832HK, N835HK, N836HK
The following units have exited the fleet (airframe sold): N845HK, N847HK
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 3:23 pm

The pilot displacement bid closed on Friday. A bit over 4,200 got displaced.

Now will need to wait to see what the fall schedule will look like to determine what actual staffing need will be. Also in the interim there likely be additional early out, retirement, or leave of absences to clear list.

Looking at another round(or two) of bids to balance things at bases/equipment that are overstaffed and who really gets left without a chair at the end.
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 8:20 pm

One tidbit that came out from the Global Transportation conference last week was that UA said it would reassess LOPAs. Assuming the recovery demand profile skews further toward leisure as business travel remains weaker in period of global recession it could make sense to pull premium seats and densify aircraft further.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 1:15 am

UAX Update:

E175:
N721YX back in service
N722YX back in service
N723YX back in service
N727YX back in service
N728YX back in service
N752YX back in service

E170:
N634RW parked at CMH
N648RW parked at CMH
N642RW parked at IND

CR5:
N504GJ back in service
N508GJ back in service
N506GJ parked at STL
N522GJ parked at STL
N551GJ parked at STL
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 1:23 am

Are the 752s coming back online?

I had to check SFO-EWR flights for early July and of the four daily non-stops is 1 is a 78X and 3 are 752s. LAX-EWR is showing a 78X, 763, and a 752.

Looks like 752s are back on the schedule from early June on.
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hOMSaR
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 7:09 pm

As a reminder, this thread is about UA fleet and route network developments. Discussions about labor relations, COVID-related pay cuts, or old UA vs. CO divisions are off topic.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
redrooster3
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Latest updates indicate P&Ws 757s (ex p.s.) are all retired. Sub-CO 752s/753s will be brought back. I've seen a few 752s and 753s running around IAH recently.

764s listed as "in storage" compared to retired as previously announced in an email from 2 weeks ago.

739s (3401-3412) listed as "in storage" too, these may be on the edge of long term storage or retirement.

Anybody know about 3014? She's a leased bird who is the last 777 in "active storage" who still has diamond seats. Possible retirement of old Peter max?
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 8:55 pm

Just to echo hOMSaR, this really isn't the place for arguing over union/management issues. We really don't want to serve as a platform to fuel those differences, particularly during a time when a lot of people are suffering in a lot of different ways. A discussion is one thing, but having things turn personal or nasty is entirely different. Let's not lose sight of the big picture here.

__________________________________________________
The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:47 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
Latest updates indicate P&Ws 757s (ex p.s.) are all retired. Sub-CO 752s/753s will be brought back. I've seen a few 752s and 753s running around IAH recently.

764s listed as "in storage" compared to retired as previously announced in an email from 2 weeks ago.

739s (3401-3412) listed as "in storage" too, these may be on the edge of long term storage or retirement.

Anybody know about 3014? She's a leased bird who is the last 777 in "active storage" who still has diamond seats. Possible retirement of old Peter max?


Hopefully the ViaSat KA2 units on the 7 ex PS birds are taken off and moved over to the KA band 753s so that they don't go to waste. UA was in the middle of upgrading all of the PS 752s with a new wifi system to replace the gogo service when COVID hit.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 2:46 am

When will the July schedule being to roll out? Should we expect to see the first round of cuts this week?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 12:43 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
Latest updates indicate P&Ws 757s (ex p.s.) are all retired. Sub-CO 752s/753s will be brought back. I've seen a few 752s and 753s running around IAH recently.

764s listed as "in storage" compared to retired as previously announced in an email from 2 weeks ago.

739s (3401-3412) listed as "in storage" too, these may be on the edge of long term storage or retirement.

Anybody know about 3014? She's a leased bird who is the last 777 in "active storage" who still has diamond seats. Possible retirement of old Peter max?


I just saw the fleet plan as well and I noticed the same thing all the PW 752 are now showing retired.

3014 was supposed to go to HKG for Polaris/PE in April but after the last frames came out UA hit the pause button. For now except for the 3 PW 77Es slated to join the domestic fleet, 3014 is the only international 77E without Polaris/PE. Who knows what UA will do this bird as you know the latest fleet update only shows the PW 752s as retired nothing else has changed.

Not sure when UA will make a public announcement about the PW 752s retirement.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 12:54 pm

United1 wrote:
Are the 752s coming back online?

I had to check SFO-EWR flights for early July and of the four daily non-stops is 1 is a 78X and 3 are 752s. LAX-EWR is showing a 78X, 763, and a 752.

Looks like 752s are back on the schedule from early June on.


United reactivated some 753s this month and like you stated some 752s are coming back in June.

United is trying to provide more a more comfortable ride across the country as more people in the New York area are traveling again. Even in this environment UA can't afford to be the only major carrier without lay flat seats. Our RR 752s have 169 seats (old configuration) 176 seats (new configuration) compared to our 738s which have 166 seats on board. The return of the RR 752s on these routes is not about providing social distance because the old configuration 752 only has 3 more seats than UA's 738s. This is all about putting lay flat seats back on these routes on every departure so UA can remain competitive.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 2:11 pm

A Twitter post indicates 17 752RR units will be "reactived" along with 50 739ERs.
I'm sure its not a coincidence that 17 752s is the exact number that are not stored in ROW.  One "Her Art Here" is still in ROW.
Six are flying or rotating in-and-out of flying.  The rest are stored/parked at MCO, INT and SFO.
Maybe its unfortunate that 7 of 12 in new configuration are stored at ROW, but UA probably doesn't need the extra 9Y seats at this point.  
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 2:45 pm

319:
N880UA, ex China Southern B-2296, sked to ferry SFO-ROW 2727/27May. Probably ready for service after XMN/SFO induction, but unpainted.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 8:55 pm

Greg Hart is out as COO, replaced by Jon Roitman SVP Airports
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 9:13 pm

Will the 787-10s come back into service soon? I booked a EWR-LAX-LAS flight in Mid July just to fly the 787 on the first leg.

LAX-LAS isn't operating this month for UA, but hopefully they will add it back.
 
RushmoreAir
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 10:27 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Greg Hart is out as COO, replaced by Jon Roitman SVP Airports


Anyone know why, or care to speculate? This is an interesting development ...
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The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Greg Hart is out as COO, replaced by Jon Roitman SVP Airports


Anyone know why, or care to speculate? This is an interesting development ...


According to Kirby he was preparing for retirement so he is stepping back to take a new role that will lead United through this Covid downturn while grooming his successor.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 11:25 pm

Hart is merely 54, a bit young to "retire". More likely imo now with Kirby now in charge he is moving his lieutenants around.

Also saw Andrew Nocella becomes in charge of UAX and Cargo under his portfolio now.
I fly your boxes
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 11:46 pm

United reshuffles management to prepare for post-coronavirus world - Flight Global

Hart, in turn, will move to a strategic role involving what chief executive Scott Kirby calls “critical medium and long term issues” such as safety, hygiene, and operating efficiency as the airline and the industry return from their coronavirus-induced forced slumber. Hart will also work on cost-cutting issues as the airline figures out what its new normal is going to look like.


United Airlines Shuffles Senior Leadership Team - Simple Flying

Greg Hart had previously said he was planning to retire in the short to medium term. Retirement has temporarily been put onto the backburner after the CEO tapped the COO in the shoulder.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:12 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Will the 787-10s come back into service soon? I booked a EWR-LAX-LAS flight in Mid July just to fly the 787 on the first leg.

LAX-LAS isn't operating this month for UA, but hopefully they will add it back.



UA's 78Xs were never parked the entire fleet has remained in service throughout this entire crisis. United has placed most of them on international routes and for now we are using some 788s on some transcons.

UPlog wrote:
Hart is merely 54, a bit young to "retire". More likely imo now with Kirby now in charge he is moving his lieutenants around.

Also saw Andrew Nocella becomes in charge of UAX and Cargo under his portfolio now.


Although we may never get the real reason why Hart decided to retire what I do know is because of the crisis Hart would not be receiving a pay raise his salary would have remained as is as a result of COVID-19. You don't accept a job only to retire a few weeks after accepting the position.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:19 am

Okay, guys. I normally leave this thread alone to let discussion just sort of flow, but once again we need to remind everyone that this thread is about United's network, fleet, and livery. Discussion over unions and personnel changes that drift off topic into finger-pointing don't belong here. If you want to have that discussion (respectfully, I might add), then please create a thread for it. This isn't a catch-all United discussion. I normally let that stuff go, but some of the posts here have become too divisive for what this thread is actually intended for.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:24 am

Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:25 am

There have been upgauges and extra sections here and there as demand has warranted.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:27 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.


I think in your case, I would be very surprised if LAX-LAS is operating in July. Your best case scenario maybe EWR-SFO-LAS if you want premium cabin. My guess is NK would not be flying EWR-LAS in early July also.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:32 am

tphuang wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.


I think in your case, I would be very surprised if LAX-LAS is operating in July. Your best case scenario maybe EWR-SFO-LAS if you want premium cabin. My guess is NK would not be flying EWR-LAS in early July also.


Why would you say that UA would not fly LAX-LAS? Is it low demand. I am booked from EWR to LAS with a stop in LAX. I picked this so I could take the 787-10 to LAX. NK I would understand more. I am booked to fly LAS-EWR on NK in July also because it was 40 bucks a person.

UA does seem to be picking up steam a bit compared to last month. Hopefully, they can restart LAX-LAS. The 787 would be nice.

Any reasons behind your thinking?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:32 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Okay, guys. I normally leave this thread alone to let discussion just sort of flow, but once again we need to remind everyone that this thread is about United's network, fleet, and livery. Discussion over unions and personnel changes that drift off topic into finger-pointing don't belong here. If you want to have that discussion (respectfully, I might add), then please create a thread for it. This isn't a catch-all United discussion. I normally let that stuff go, but some of the posts here have become too divisive for what this thread is actually intended for.

✈️ atcsundevil


Respectfully, a thread was created about this recent management move (which is off topic of network and fleet) and that was deleted in favor of this thread. It's hard to know where to post when threads that are intended to be away from this one are deleted.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:38 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.


Anything post early July schedule is not accurate...as you said it's the pre covid schedule.

UA has started to add flights back in June and is using larger aircraft on some routes. For instance SFO-ORD and SFO-EWR have both gained a frequency. For May was UA operating about 10% of its normal schedule, July they plan on operating about 25% of normal schedule and June is somewhere in the middle of that.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:55 am

United1 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.


Anything post early July schedule is not accurate...as you said it's the pre covid schedule.

UA has started to add flights back in June and is using larger aircraft on some routes. For instance SFO-ORD and SFO-EWR have both gained a frequency. For May was UA operating about 10% of its normal schedule, July they plan on operating about 25% of normal schedule and June is somewhere in the middle of that.


Seems they haven't added the LAX-LAS flight in June. Starting to question my reservation. It also seems that on other airliners like NK, they will change your departure times around. What happens if UA cancels second leg of the EWR-LAX-LAS flight? Do I get to keep the first leg still and just connect through another airport. Im fine with EWR-LAX-SFO-LAS to get that 787.

Seems none of the times are accurate either.
 
ericm2031
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:55 am

[twoid][/twoid]
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.


I’d guess LAX-LAS will come back as the casinos are opening in June. Maybe not added onto the June schedule, but the July schedule probably. LAX-LAS does generate some close-in bookings so I wouldn’t completely rule out a last minute June add.
 
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janders
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 2:03 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Respectfully, a thread was created about this recent management move (which is off topic of network and fleet) and that was deleted in favor of this thread. It's hard to know where to post when threads that are intended to be away from this one are deleted.


That thread was deleted for copyright violations, and failure to supply a source.

We are happy to encourage discussion, but post need to comply with forum rules otherwise must be removed.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 2:22 am

ericm2031 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does UA (Any airline, but mainly UA) add more flights as the pandemic gets better? If things started to look better in June, would UA adjust its schedules to have more flights operating?

It seems that in UA's case, anything after July 6th looks like the pre-Covid schedule. Mostly curious as myself and others have flights planned after the 6th that aren't operating right now, but show up after 7/6. For example: UA's LAX-LAS or NK's LAS to EWR.


I’d guess LAX-LAS will come back as the casinos are opening in June. Maybe not added onto the June schedule, but the July schedule probably. LAX-LAS does generate some close-in bookings so I wouldn’t completely rule out a last minute June add.


Thank you for this. How is EWR-LAX route doing? Are they looking to add more flights?

My 787-10 flight for Mid July has quite a bit of occupied seats in United Economy. I hope they wouldn't axe that.

EWR does seem to be UA's most valuable asset in the NYC area since they gave up JFK. I wonder how F9 is doing at EWR since they added trans-continentals.

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