Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
dmstorm22
Posts: 618
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:52 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I talked with my friend who is a Bosch Executive and he says everyone within the company is trying to get traveling ASAP. He also said they, along with many other companies will not be waiting for a vaccine before starting to travel. Additionally, they are planning for a large conference in Germany in the Fall, in which they will all need to fly to.


I can see some hesitancy but just as companies halted travel in quick succession, they will do the same in getting back to travel.

For sales oriented areas first-mover will push some.

Just my $0.02, hard to predict when, but I do think it is when not if, taking an 18-month view.

There are industries though that may see how productivity has managed through this period and cuts travel for certain business areas ongoing, or at least looks to restrict it.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:06 pm

I agree with wait and see. Why spend more money now for an unknown?

UA has plenty of WB aircraft to re-deploy when travel returns and many will remain parked for a while. UA has 14 2 class (30J), 17 76L (46J) and 7 two-class non-Polaris units.

UA has a unique (hopefully temporary) fleet planning opportunity to pull from abundant, varied resources to match demand.

With cash being tight, UA should pull 763s out of storage to match the demand (possibly including non-Polaris units flying Transcon or Hawaii). If demand means fewer J seats and more Y seats, then leave most of the 76Ls parked.

One would think the reduction in services will be across the board for other airlines and that would include J services. Maybe UA can gain some J passengers if BA and others reduce premium seats. I doubt UA will not fly LHR slot, so lower seat sizes may make sense, even if J demand is reduced.
Regarding LHR, was UA turning away Y customers on the 76L? - if so then a mix of 30J and 46J units might do the trick.

If UA wants to spend more reconfiguration money, then the 763 fleet could be converted to 1.) all 30J, 2.) 27J +PP, 3.) something else OR 4.) a mix of these options. Note, some of these options include expensive STCs.
If the remaining non-Polaris 763s new Polaris seats have not been purchased, UA could reduce 76L J seats to at least partially provision those 7 units.
 
DC8FanJet
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:25 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:07 pm

N649DL wrote:
codc10 wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
The 76L is more premium heavy than the 752PW units with 64% more F seats and 15 fewer E+/Y seats (76L has 22 PP seats). I could see some use on Transcons, but the majority of use for the 76L would seems to be for LHR. If there is a demand drop TATL on LHR/other premium routes, maybe shifting a few of the 17 76Ls to Transcon could make sense and possibly increase utilization. Such a change could mean fewer 78X flights Transcon.
If N674UA gets Polaris, UA should consider changing the configuration from the planned 76L to the 30J configuration.



IIRC, I thought they had plans to dump a handful of the 763ERs that never got Polaris conversions (a few ex-3 class variants even got the old sCO BF seat with completely new Y interiors installed but have no winglets). Perhaps now UA changed their mind and are keeping all the 763s variants around for a while?

All United 763s have winglets installed, regardless of seating configuration
 
tphuang
Posts: 5350
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:09 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I talked with my friend who is a Bosch Executive and he says everyone within the company is trying to get traveling ASAP. He also said they, along with many other companies will not be waiting for a vaccine before starting to travel. Additionally, they are planning for a large conference in Germany in the Fall, in which they will all need to fly to.


wonderful, but the fact is business travel is still basically 0 at this point. That's according to all the airlines.

Hard to have business travel when so many white collar jobs are still working from home. I don't plan to be back in the office this year or even longer than that. And with a slow economy, companies will severely cut back corporate travel even if there is vaccine around.

They won't be able to fly to a large conference in Germany if Schengen zone still has a 14 day quarantine period at that time.
 
NJHoboken
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 1:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:36 pm

I am a GS flyer and Managing Director at an NYC investment bank. I believe that premium travel will rebound faster than people expect. While my aggregate level of flying will go down, my firm has historically been tight on those that can fly premium (usually Director or higher level). Our initial discussions are that we may open up premium flying to a broader base of employees in an effort to provide for distancing. Our aggregate travel spend will still come down, but the composition may change.
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:05 pm

I'm a 1K flyer with a global consulting firm and expect that once business travel begins to rebound it will come back pretty quickly. I expect the amount of travel that the average consultant does to go down, especially at the junior levels given how effective people have been with Zoom, etc. but nothing replaces face-to-face meetings and working sessions.

Once offices begin to open back up in meaningful ways, travel will begin to resume. For offices that are open, most are limited to 10-25% of capacity with no services (e.g. no coffee) so there isn't a reason to go in unless you need to bulk print or a quiet place to work away from kids and other distractions. The mask requirements are a barrier to going in too. It's rough enough going to Costco with a mask let alone working all day with one on.

If we have an effective treatment protocol and meaningful stats on where we are with working towards a large percentage of the population having some level of antibody protection, we may see things open up much more broadly this fall otherwise its likely going to be Spring 2021.
 
N649DL
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I talked with my friend who is a Bosch Executive and he says everyone within the company is trying to get traveling ASAP. He also said they, along with many other companies will not be waiting for a vaccine before starting to travel. Additionally, they are planning for a large conference in Germany in the Fall, in which they will all need to fly to.


wonderful, but the fact is business travel is still basically 0 at this point. That's according to all the airlines.

Hard to have business travel when so many white collar jobs are still working from home. I don't plan to be back in the office this year or even longer than that. And with a slow economy, companies will severely cut back corporate travel even if there is vaccine around.

They won't be able to fly to a large conference in Germany if Schengen zone still has a 14 day quarantine period at that time.


There was however a time where UA was in a hurry to start dumping 3-class interiors as quickly as possible and matched a few 763 frames into 2-class configuration. I found a trip report on youtube from GRU-IAD and it was surprising to see that they didn't install winglets on IIRC, N642UA yet but the interiors were clearly brand new. This was around 2017 I want to say.
 
codc10
Posts: 2898
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:20 pm

N649DL wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I talked with my friend who is a Bosch Executive and he says everyone within the company is trying to get traveling ASAP. He also said they, along with many other companies will not be waiting for a vaccine before starting to travel. Additionally, they are planning for a large conference in Germany in the Fall, in which they will all need to fly to.


wonderful, but the fact is business travel is still basically 0 at this point. That's according to all the airlines.

Hard to have business travel when so many white collar jobs are still working from home. I don't plan to be back in the office this year or even longer than that. And with a slow economy, companies will severely cut back corporate travel even if there is vaccine around.

They won't be able to fly to a large conference in Germany if Schengen zone still has a 14 day quarantine period at that time.


There was however a time where UA was in a hurry to start dumping 3-class interiors as quickly as possible and matched a few 763 frames into 2-class configuration. I found a trip report on youtube from GRU-IAD and it was surprising to see that they didn't install winglets on IIRC, N642UA yet but the interiors were clearly brand new. This was around 2017 I want to say.


Cabin mods on the 767s were carried out in connection with heavy (C and higher) checks, which included adding winglets. The 2012-2015 round of 767 mods, from domestic and some 3-cabin configuration to 2-cabin international (76C, former 76E) were the first in the UA 767 fleet to add winglets. I am not aware of any 767-300ERs which had post-merger interiors (76C/E or Polaris 76A/76L) that did not get the winglet mod at the same time.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24727
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:14 pm

Some notes from todays townhall with Kirby and Hart

> Traffic more than 90% down still. Carried about 40,000 last few days, compared to 500,000 normal this time of year
> Must think about the future which means prepare for smaller airline esp after Oct.1
> Will seek to raise more capital to carry through current challenges
> Unlikely to see normalcy for several years, likely dependent on a vaccine.
> Must plan for worst and hope for best. We could have a few setbacks on road to recovery.
> Doing all possible to reduce down variable cost
> This will mean shared sacrifices by all. In talks with all unions to see if creative solutions can be found
> Paying significant cash severance "not something we can do in this environment"
> Will extend COLAs, but wont save people if there are furloughs/involuntary separations
> May sked down 88%, but revenue down 94%
> Plan July sked to be down 75%
> Will build out hub banks at mid continental airports from current 2 to 4 and eventually 5 banks later in the year to maximize connectivity
> Seeing some uptick domestically, but worried about international. No China access, 14-day UK quarantine etc.
> Cargo carrying the day internationally. Limited intl ops likely more profitable today than whats being flown domestically
> Visiting friends/family traffic likely come back first, but leisure to places like Disney take some time and even then be restricted.
> Small glimmers of biz traffic - sales/consultants, but full corp travel and things like large events some time away and likely must wait for a vaccine
> Safety onboard not about distancing as it cant be done. Its about face mask, air filtering, cleaning, etc.
> Working with govt on best way to effectively implement pax temperature screening at the airport.
> Key will be creating safe environment which makes the customer feel comfortable and willing to venture back to air travel
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:05 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
I'm a 1K flyer with a global consulting firm and expect that once business travel begins to rebound it will come back pretty quickly. I expect the amount of travel that the average consultant does to go down, especially at the junior levels given how effective people have been with Zoom, etc. but nothing replaces face-to-face meetings and working sessions.

Once offices begin to open back up in meaningful ways, travel will begin to resume. For offices that are open, most are limited to 10-25% of capacity with no services (e.g. no coffee) so there isn't a reason to go in unless you need to bulk print or a quiet place to work away from kids and other distractions. The mask requirements are a barrier to going in too. It's rough enough going to Costco with a mask let alone working all day with one on.


I think there are multiple dimensions to business travel. Here are just some I can think of...(but not exhaustive)
One is for those that travel for sales
Another is those that travel for consulting engagements
Another is for events
Another is for internal events.
We need all of these back.

I know for my company #3 & 4 are off the table for at least until well into the Fall if not through the end of the year. (there are always exceptions, but as an example I participate in face to face training and we got told to cancel through the end of the year).
#1 & #2 will happen if our customers want us to come in, as of now we do have a few engagements happening across both of these categories, but it is highly limited and really we are limiting who is traveling. Meaning a meeting that used to have 3-4 people travel in is having nobody travel but local folks are doing it with some webex/zoom attendees to augment. (I will also call out that our customers are doing the exact same thing, ie some in-person and others remote.)

Yes, travel will snap back in some #'s, because really they can only go up from where we are now.
I do not see it happening as fast as others, sorry, I will disagree with others on the widespread of 1-4 happening back to normal anytime soon.
Heck today our CEO and President said we will continue to be largely remote well into 2021.
 
FR24Virus
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:03 pm

N649DL wrote:
There was however a time where UA was in a hurry to start dumping 3-class interiors as quickly as possible and matched a few 763 frames into 2-class configuration. I found a trip report on youtube from GRU-IAD and it was surprising to see that they didn't install winglets on IIRC, N642UA yet but the interiors were clearly brand new. This was around 2017 I want to say.


This is true. N642UA get her Winglets in 2018 during Polaris.
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8940634
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9060731
 
codc10
Posts: 2898
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:09 pm

FR24Virus wrote:
N649DL wrote:
There was however a time where UA was in a hurry to start dumping 3-class interiors as quickly as possible and matched a few 763 frames into 2-class configuration. I found a trip report on youtube from GRU-IAD and it was surprising to see that they didn't install winglets on IIRC, N642UA yet but the interiors were clearly brand new. This was around 2017 I want to say.


This is true. N642UA get her Winglets in 2018 during Polaris.
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8940634
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9060731


N642UA went from 3-cabin 67I to 30J Polaris 76A in mid-2018, and the mod included winglets (the last UA 767 to get them). It wasn't in an interim 30J BE Diamond 76C without winglets.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6193
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:56 pm

Here are some interesting stats. Below are numbers of total job losses between April 19 and April 20 by metro area. The percentage represents the percent of jobs lost of the total in that time frame. So the 8.5% next to Houston means Greater Houston lost 8.5% of the jobs it had in April 2019 between then and April 2020:

-265,700 Houston -8.5%
-301,000 Washington -9.0%
-150,700 Denver -9.9%
-123,400 San Jose -10.8%
-610,900 Chicago -12.9%
-349,700 San Francisco -14.2%
-916,200 Los Angeles -14.7%
-1,949,600 New York -19.6%

Im sure a huge part of CA and NY were the stay at home orders and how hard COVID hit NYC.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:44 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Here are some interesting stats. Below are numbers of total job losses between April 19 and April 20 by metro area. The percentage represents the percent of jobs lost of the total in that time frame. So the 8.5% next to Houston means Greater Houston lost 8.5% of the jobs it had in April 2019 between then and April 2020:

-265,700 Houston -8.5%
-301,000 Washington -9.0%
-150,700 Denver -9.9%
-123,400 San Jose -10.8%
-610,900 Chicago -12.9%
-349,700 San Francisco -14.2%
-916,200 Los Angeles -14.7%
-1,949,600 New York -19.6%

Im sure a huge part of CA and NY were the stay at home orders and how hard COVID hit NYC.


Surprising Houston hasn't been hit harder given the slump in the oil industry... I know Houston has plenty more to its economy than just oil, but still...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5350
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:55 pm

Seems like they are aiming to be 70% of their pre-COVID size. Just not sure if that's going to be reached next summer, end of next year or 2022.
 
airplanedriver6
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
Seems like they are aiming to be 70% of their pre-COVID size.

I think "aiming" is the slightly incorrect word.

They are contingency planning for 30% smaller which will let them hit any target between 100% and 70% of pre-COVID. Since NOBODY knows what travel demand will be the fall, and particularly next summer, the entire strategy is based on flexibility. The airline's fleet and staffing needs are determined by the peak season and for a major airline in the USA that means the summer months.
Last edited by airplanedriver6 on Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Pinto
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:02 pm

I heard rumor of UA restating HKG-SIN as a passenger flight? Is this still being planned or will they go for direct SFO-SIN?
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:05 pm

Pinto wrote:
I heard rumor of UA restating HKG-SIN as a passenger flight? Is this still being planned or will they go for direct SFO-SIN?


See post #2007

Announced last week.
I fly your boxes
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:13 pm

Interesting that AA is flying 55% pre-COVID for July and UA is only going to do 25%...quite a big difference. Will be interesting to see the numbers after the fact.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:18 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Interesting that AA is flying 55% pre-COVID for July and UA is only going to do 25%...quite a big difference. Will be interesting to see the numbers after the fact.


UA bumping up domestic to 30% now, numbers must be coming back quicker than they anticipated
Image

"United is nearly doubling Washington DC IAD flights in July to 124 per day up from 67 in June and going from 60 to 74 destinations"
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 25767?s=20
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tphuang
Posts: 5350
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Interesting that AA is flying 55% pre-COVID for July and UA is only going to do 25%...quite a big difference. Will be interesting to see the numbers after the fact.


UA bumping up domestic to 30% now, numbers must be coming back quicker than they anticipated
Image

"United is nearly doubling Washington DC IAD flights in July to 124 per day up from 67 in June and going from 60 to 74 destinations"
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 25767?s=20

I think the 25% is referring to system wide capacity. Makes sense for domestic to be higher than that.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:43 pm

Chicago O’Hare: 260 flights to 133 destinations

Denver: 206 flights to 120 destinations

Houston Intercontinental: 210 flights to 112 destinations

Los Angeles: 43 flights to 26 destinations

Newark: 115 flights to 61 destinations

San Francisco: 116 flights to 65 destinations

Washington Dulles: 124 flights to 74 destinations
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Interesting that AA is flying 55% pre-COVID for July and UA is only going to do 25%...quite a big difference. Will be interesting to see the numbers after the fact.


UA bumping up domestic to 30% now, numbers must be coming back quicker than they anticipated
Image

"United is nearly doubling Washington DC IAD flights in July to 124 per day up from 67 in June and going from 60 to 74 destinations"
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 25767?s=20

I think the 25% is referring to system wide capacity. Makes sense for domestic to be higher than that.


The reports I've read have said that 30% is an increase from 25%, I could be wrong though
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tphuang
Posts: 5350
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

UA bumping up domestic to 30% now, numbers must be coming back quicker than they anticipated
Image

"United is nearly doubling Washington DC IAD flights in July to 124 per day up from 67 in June and going from 60 to 74 destinations"
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 25767?s=20

I think the 25% is referring to system wide capacity. Makes sense for domestic to be higher than that.


The reports I've read have said that 30% is an increase from 25%, I could be wrong though


You are probably right.

If I had to guess, some of the increases here like the EWR to 115 fights, is a response to competitive pressure from LCCs. Seeing competitors aggressively taking aggressive capacity increases probably forced their hand a little bit here. Would be interesting to see how they recover over next year, I still anticipate them to be 35% smaller than pre-COVID size next summer.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:05 am

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think the 25% is referring to system wide capacity. Makes sense for domestic to be higher than that.


The reports I've read have said that 30% is an increase from 25%, I could be wrong though


You are probably right.

If I had to guess, some of the increases here like the EWR to 115 fights, is a response to competitive pressure from LCCs. Seeing competitors aggressively taking aggressive capacity increases probably forced their hand a little bit here. Would be interesting to see how they recover over next year, I still anticipate them to be 35% smaller than pre-COVID size next summer.


2020 Peak Departures/2019 Peak Departures
IAD 124/266-46.6%
ORD 260/637-40.8%
DEN 206/504-40.9%
EWR 115/432-26.6%
SFO 116/332-34.9%
LAX 43/160-26.9%
IAH 210/533-39.4%

Using FSDan's schedule from S19
viewtopic.php?t=1420611

I believe they are also keeping the schedules low for Tuesdays & Saturdays, which would likely bring down the percentages
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
United1
Posts: 4187
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Chicago O’Hare: 260 flights to 133 destinations

Denver: 206 flights to 120 destinations

Houston Intercontinental: 210 flights to 112 destinations

Los Angeles: 43 flights to 26 destinations

Newark: 115 flights to 61 destinations

San Francisco: 116 flights to 65 destinations

Washington Dulles: 124 flights to 74 destinations


A rough estimation of percent of "normal" flights.
ORD 45%
DEN 45%
IAH 40%
LAX 30%
EWR 30%
SFO 40%
IAD 50%
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
avi8
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:22 am

So ORD, DEN and IAH are the main hubs during this crisis. Makes a lot of sense.
avi8
 
airzona11
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:28 am

jayunited wrote:
codc10 wrote:
With regard to a configuration change, I could see some of the 76L fleet going to a smaller J cabin if LHR/ZRH/GVA/FRA premium demand projects to be impaired for an extended (multiyear) period.

Scott Kirby has said they have no plans to retire any fleets at the moment, and would prefer to keep airplanes in long-term storage to provide the optionality to add capacity if demand returns. Eventually, some decisions will have to be made, but for now, it appears all but the 28J 752s (75K, one of which just hit its 31st anniversary of delivery) will remain "technically" in the fleet, albeit parked, for now.


I think you are correct UA will take a wait and see approach. I think premium demand will remain surpressed until there is an effective therapeutic and/or a vaccine. The question is can United wait that long, can we hold out long enough to get a clear picture of how the recovery, or will our financial position force UA to act sooner than what Kirby would like?


I wonder though if premium demand would not come back before Y demand? Business travel is what pays the bills and once that opens up more, those fliers are going to go. The masses are going to be more impacted by the depressed economy, unemployment etc. Add to that decreased flights and less competition, Y fares are going to be higher than normal, which makes the difference between J/PY and Y less, maybe more buy ups. Granted this is all if the economies stay open and come back up quicker, but structurally, the housing market did not crash like past recessions, financial markets did not crash, this is for the most part lockdown induced. The near term era is not going to be one of cheap fares.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:29 am

Great to see UA increasing now. It seemed like some business was being lost to others flying more robust schedules.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:32 am

I think American was wise to keep all of their connectivity in place as much as possible. I'm having to fly them tomorrow instead of UAL for that very reason.

I am happy to see UAL continue to rebound. As soon as NY and CA loosen up more it should really turn things loose with filling planes.

I am hoping for a very quick rebound so none of the planned furloughs will be as severe as currently thought.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1121
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:34 am

Kirby only yesterday said capacity is not the problem, its demand.

https://skift.com/2020/06/04/american-a ... ectations/

He said July system would be down 75%.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4299
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:32 am

Please be respectful with other users. This thread is normally respectful and cordial, so if replies aren't in keeping with the generally positive tone of this thread, they will be removed.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
codc10
Posts: 2898
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:34 am

AA is unsustainable at 25-30% of pre-COVID capacity. It can't possible generate enough revenue at that level for much longer and expect to meet its covenants. So, it has to go for broke. Fortunately, the market appears ready to begin the long road back...and the rising tide will lift all boats!
 
jayunited
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:52 am

ericm2031 wrote:
Interesting that AA is flying 55% pre-COVID for July and UA is only going to do 25%...quite a big difference. Will be interesting to see the numbers after the fact.



The percentage of flights flown is not important the question is how much revenue will AA generate off 55% verses UA's 30% ( UA just announced July's schedule will be around 30%).

Also United is not trying to keep up with American, United is trying to find the right balance that provides the right capacity while also generating revenue. Personally I think for July UA should be flying 30% -35%. I think anything over 35% would probably be to much capacity for UA at this particular point in time.

Lastly I can't wait to see Q2 results American has operated more flights than UA during Q2. It will be interesting to see how each airline faired during Q2 with UA flying the least number of flights DL in the middle and AA had the most flights in the air.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24727
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:03 am

jayunited wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
The percentage of flights flown is not important the question is how much revenue will AA generate off 55% verses UA's 30% ( UA just announced July's schedule will be around 30%).


Domestic is 30%, overall is 25%
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jayunited
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:09 pm

LAXintl wrote:
jayunited wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
The percentage of flights flown is not important the question is how much revenue will AA generate off 55% verses UA's 30% ( UA just announced July's schedule will be around 30%).


Domestic is 30%, overall is 25%


My apologies I read the statement UA put out and my excitement got the better of me. I'm more the type to focus on good news and I should have gotten a better understanding of what UA was actually saying before I posted.

But I still believe 30% to perhaps 35% domestically is right where UA should be for July. Comparing AA, and UA's approach to DL's approach to this crisis. DL has stated they are capping capacity at 60% while both AA and UA have taken a different approach. I'm bringing up DL because they've added flights as well because of their policy but even with that policy I don't believe DL will be flying 55% of their pre-COVID schedule domestically. UA flying 30% of our pre-COVID domestic schedule is probably right where we should be seeing that we are not capping capacity at 60%.

United is focusing on getting our daily cash burn rate down and keeping it down. Not really sure what AA is doing especially seeing their daily cash burn rate continues to be much higher than UA's.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:39 pm

United will not let WN pull away at DEN, our July 2020 schedule will see UA operating 206 daily departures on peak days to 120 destinations. Even though UA's focus is on revenue and not trying to be the largest carrier at DEN this has to be encouraging news for employees at DEN to see UA's committed to DEN remains just as strong as ever.

As much as I hate to do this I have to be fair. UA's July schedule will see 3 hubs operating over 200 daily flights on peak days, and 3 hubs at over 100 daily flights on peak days. However LAX's daily departures will remain incredibly low at just 43 daily departures on peak days to only 26 destinations. While I don't believe UA will de-hub LAX, it is obvious from our July schedule that at this particular point in time LAX is not a top priority for UA. While LAX's July numbers are not shocking they are a bit disappointing, but I guess SFO and DEN take priority.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... -schedule/
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:11 pm

jayunited wrote:
As much as I hate to do this I have to be fair. UA's July schedule will see 3 hubs operating over 200 daily flights on peak days, and 3 hubs at over 100 daily flights on peak days. However LAX's daily departures will remain incredibly low at just 43 daily departures on peak days to only 26 destinations. While I don't believe UA will de-hub LAX, it is obvious from our July schedule that at this particular point in time LAX is not a top priority for UA. While LAX's July numbers are not shocking they are a bit disappointing, but I guess SFO and DEN take priority.


The thing about LAX for UA is that the hub served very few unique destinations. Basically just ITO, I think (since SCK seems to be cut longer term?). The majority of UA's flights from LAX pre-COVID-19 were either to other UA hubs, to Hawai'i, or to smaller Western destinations where UA is strong (BOI, ACV, SBA, ASE, COS, etc.), likely quite reliant on O&D rather than connections. With international and Hawai'i traffic severely hampered and the LA area still more locked down than the average U.S. metro area, there's not much left that's worth flying nonstop from LAX besides the other hubs.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FlyGuy27
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:44 pm

Today's UA 2374 EWR - SFO was on the 76L. Other flights on a 752, 753 and 788. Interesting times for sure.

Wouldn't mind the 76L cross-country!
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:57 pm

FlyGuy27 wrote:
Today's UA 2374 EWR - SFO was on the 76L. Other flights on a 752, 753 and 788. Interesting times for sure.

Wouldn't mind the 76L cross-country!


Increasing J demand?
 
B747forever
Posts: 13853
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:34 am

jayunited wrote:
However LAX's daily departures will remain incredibly low at just 43 daily departures on peak days to only 26 destinations. While I don't believe UA will de-hub LAX, it is obvious from our July schedule that at this particular point in time LAX is not a top priority for UA. While LAX's July numbers are not shocking they are a bit disappointing, but I guess SFO and DEN take priority.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... -schedule/


Do you happen to have the full LAX July schedule? Interested in seeing which cities will be served.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:10 am

B747forever wrote:
jayunited wrote:
However LAX's daily departures will remain incredibly low at just 43 daily departures on peak days to only 26 destinations. While I don't believe UA will de-hub LAX, it is obvious from our July schedule that at this particular point in time LAX is not a top priority for UA. While LAX's July numbers are not shocking they are a bit disappointing, but I guess SFO and DEN take priority.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... -schedule/


Do you happen to have the full LAX July schedule? Interested in seeing which cities will be served.


Includes partner flights, schedule is for sale now on UA.com

Image
Image
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:04 am

It seems that UA has updated some schedules. Looking at some EWR routes that now have fewer flights present than a few days ago.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:17 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
It seems that UA has updated some schedules. Looking at some EWR routes that now have fewer flights present than a few days ago.


If you’re talking about July, then yes. It was showing pre-COVID schedule previously...it now has the real schedule loaded.
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:14 am

ericm2031 wrote:
If you’re talking about July, then yes. It was showing pre-COVID schedule previously...it now has the real schedule loaded.


It's down from the "default" or unadjusted schedule as one might call it, but in general up a bit from June in the "real" or actually now planned to be flown, schedule. Nowhere near Southwest or American yet as UA is still planning on riding this out with deeper cuts but it's an improvement over the bare than bare bones being flown now.
UA DL LH NW AA WN - Hope I don't have to leave WY for a while
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
redrooster3
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:04 am

Okcflyer wrote:
FlyGuy27 wrote:
Today's UA 2374 EWR - SFO was on the 76L. Other flights on a 752, 753 and 788. Interesting times for sure.

Wouldn't mind the 76L cross-country!


Increasing J demand?


Definitely not, only 7 passengers booked in business with 4 being upgrades. It was probably a NOC request to "get the plane flying" to avoid storage protocols.

On the other hand, im seeing a few 772s popping up in DEN/IAH/ORD. Aircraft 13 left for polaris mods on March 18th and spent about 50 days in mods and came back and is doing hub-to-hub runs.
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:23 am

SumChristianus wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
If you’re talking about July, then yes. It was showing pre-COVID schedule previously...it now has the real schedule loaded.


It's down from the "default" or unadjusted schedule as one might call it, but in general up a bit from June in the "real" or actually now planned to be flown, schedule. Nowhere near Southwest or American yet as UA is still planning on riding this out with deeper cuts but it's an improvement over the bare than bare bones being flown now.


I know that...I’m not sure why you’re clarifying that...
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 669
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:05 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
FlyGuy27 wrote:
Today's UA 2374 EWR - SFO was on the 76L. Other flights on a 752, 753 and 788. Interesting times for sure.

Wouldn't mind the 76L cross-country!


Increasing J demand?


Definitely not, only 7 passengers booked in business with 4 being upgrades. It was probably a NOC request to "get the plane flying" to avoid storage protocols.

On the other hand, im seeing a few 772s popping up in DEN/IAH/ORD. Aircraft 13 left for polaris mods on March 18th and spent about 50 days in mods and came back and is doing hub-to-hub runs.


Bummer. Thanks for the info though!
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3229
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:26 pm

The 76L fleet has stored units sitting since about 3/30 except a few ferried in early April to long term storage at ROW.
N652UA was the last out of Polaris mod on 4/11, so it must be in a different storage mode and UA has kept it "active". If cargo demand needs a 763 it doesn't matter what the seat configuration is with poor passenger demand.
It seems interesting that UA chose to fire up 2 of 7 non-Polaris 763s, N657UA and N658UA after 6 weeks or more in storage for occasional hub-to-hub and transcon flights.
7 of 14 763A units are occasionally operating as well.

All 772ER appear in storage except:
The last 2 772GE Polaris mods, N76010 and N78013 (exited HKG 5/10-11) are both doing occasional ORD-IAH/IAD/DEN turns to stay active.
772ER/PW N798UA was last out of XMN maint 5/11 is doing occasional IAD-SJU turns and N210UA is doing occasional hub-to-hub services after several military charter legs in late May.

UA is definitely keeping specific aircraft, specific groups of aircraft and aircraft types in specific locations. Aircraft in and out of short term parking seem to return to the same airport for a day or more of being parked. The newer 738s plus many Airbuses are being flown for up to several days, then usually returned to the same location to swap out with another parked aircraft of the same type. 739s are being used infrequently at this point.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:44 pm

Does anyone have the schedule for EWR in July? Are they planning on using a 787-10 for one of the EWR-LAX routes? Also, I am curious how EWR operations will look.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos