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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:34 pm

nonrevelite wrote:
United’s ground handler in BRU shut down.


United's ground handler in BRU is Swissport, are you saying Swissport at BRU has shut down?
 
airboss787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
nonrevelite wrote:
United’s ground handler in BRU shut down.


United's ground handler in BRU is Swissport, are you saying Swissport at BRU has shut down?


Swissport's Belgian subsidiary declared bankruptcy last week. Not sure if they are insolvent, but they sure are bankrupt.
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NWAESC
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:39 pm

Swissport Belgium filed for BK and is being wound down.
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:15 am

A few more tidbits from flight ops townhall:


Q. What led to the further reduced staffing target numbers for the 777 fleet?
A. Network planning expects the 777 fleet to be utilized less in 2021 than we expected prior to 20-07D.

Q. Why is the projected head count of Airbus fleet now so much lower than the projected head count of 737 captain?
A. There is a projected lower head count because we expect the Airbus fleet to be utilized less than the 737 fleet over the next two years, in part due to a wave of upcoming expensive maintenance requirements.

Q. How long will the current high temp of cargo flying continue?
A. We are operating 35-45 cargo flights on a daily basis. The tempo of this flying is dependent by market demand for the cargo capacity which is mostly driven by the lack of longhaul passenger flying. Its quite probable we are at or near the peak for cargo flying, and demand could taper off as widebody passenger flying volume returns across global markets.


=

Also was mentioned that for summer 2021 they building staffing for an airline that will be 30% smaller in size compared to 2019 with the flexibility to adjust +/-10%.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 am

I definitely think it’s premature to cut up to 30% for next year. UA should expect others to pounce at already cut throat hubs like EWR, DEN, LAX, and even ORD.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:42 am

Update on China per tweet of Brian Sumers

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaRWBtPU4AI ... ame=medium
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tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:42 am

interesting comments that I saw Brian Sumers posted.
"Some of our competitors are flying a bigger July schedules than we are, by selling extremely low-priced tickets, and wasting money to fly those extra flights"

And apparently this is what DL has said.
"Ed noted that each airline is taking a different approach in their recovery strategy. The revenue being booked now is discount-based - Delta's pricing is down about 10% and Ed estimates that pricing at other airlines with more capacity out there is down between 20-30%. Chasing traffic is expensive and degrades the brand and quality of the experience..... He expressed with confidence that we will get our premium customers back... by keeping load factor caps and ensuring quality of experience".

I think UA's comments are more directed toward employee's complaints about AA and WN running a large schedule, but especially AA. DL's comment about heavy discounting probably is geared toward not just AA but also WN and ULCCs. DL's strategy is certainly the most expensive out of the 3, but they do have the most cash of the 3. You can see WN/AS/B6 also doing the same with the middle seat blocking.

UA's strategy is fine. It's burning less cash than both DL and AA. I actually think it will be down by more than 30% next summer due to having the most international exposure, but we will see.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:11 am

tphuang wrote:
interesting comments that I saw Brian Sumers posted.
"Some of our competitors are flying a bigger July schedules than we are, by selling extremely low-priced tickets, and wasting money to fly those extra flights"

And apparently this is what DL has said.
"Ed noted that each airline is taking a different approach in their recovery strategy. The revenue being booked now is discount-based - Delta's pricing is down about 10% and Ed estimates that pricing at other airlines with more capacity out there is down between 20-30%. Chasing traffic is expensive and degrades the brand and quality of the experience..... He expressed with confidence that we will get our premium customers back... by keeping load factor caps and ensuring quality of experience".

I think UA's comments are more directed toward employee's complaints about AA and WN running a large schedule, but especially AA. DL's comment about heavy discounting probably is geared toward not just AA but also WN and ULCCs. DL's strategy is certainly the most expensive out of the 3, but they do have the most cash of the 3. You can see WN/AS/B6 also doing the same with the middle seat blocking.

UA's strategy is fine. It's burning less cash than both DL and AA. I actually think it will be down by more than 30% next summer due to having the most international exposure, but we will see.


Probably worth pointing out that AA's cash burn was at $70M at the beginning of May, and they are expecting it to be at $40M by the end of June. So clearly their increased schedule is working for them.

UA's cash burn started from a much lower base ($50M entering Q2), and they have said they only expect it to go down to $40-$45M by end of June
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Scarebus34
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:17 am

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting comments that I saw Brian Sumers posted.
"Some of our competitors are flying a bigger July schedules than we are, by selling extremely low-priced tickets, and wasting money to fly those extra flights"

And apparently this is what DL has said.
"Ed noted that each airline is taking a different approach in their recovery strategy. The revenue being booked now is discount-based - Delta's pricing is down about 10% and Ed estimates that pricing at other airlines with more capacity out there is down between 20-30%. Chasing traffic is expensive and degrades the brand and quality of the experience..... He expressed with confidence that we will get our premium customers back... by keeping load factor caps and ensuring quality of experience".

I think UA's comments are more directed toward employee's complaints about AA and WN running a large schedule, but especially AA. DL's comment about heavy discounting probably is geared toward not just AA but also WN and ULCCs. DL's strategy is certainly the most expensive out of the 3, but they do have the most cash of the 3. You can see WN/AS/B6 also doing the same with the middle seat blocking.

UA's strategy is fine. It's burning less cash than both DL and AA. I actually think it will be down by more than 30% next summer due to having the most international exposure, but we will see.


Probably worth pointing out that AA's cash burn was at $70M at the beginning of May, and they are expecting it to be at $40M by the end of June. So clearly their increased schedule is working for them.

UA's cash burn started from a much lower base ($50M entering Q2), and they have said they only expect it to go down to $40-$45M by end of June

In April, UA was burning 100M a day. So they’ll have slashed it by 60% by the end of June. UA simply cut their cash burn sooner then AA.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:27 am

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting comments that I saw Brian Sumers posted.
"Some of our competitors are flying a bigger July schedules than we are, by selling extremely low-priced tickets, and wasting money to fly those extra flights"

And apparently this is what DL has said.
"Ed noted that each airline is taking a different approach in their recovery strategy. The revenue being booked now is discount-based - Delta's pricing is down about 10% and Ed estimates that pricing at other airlines with more capacity out there is down between 20-30%. Chasing traffic is expensive and degrades the brand and quality of the experience..... He expressed with confidence that we will get our premium customers back... by keeping load factor caps and ensuring quality of experience".

I think UA's comments are more directed toward employee's complaints about AA and WN running a large schedule, but especially AA. DL's comment about heavy discounting probably is geared toward not just AA but also WN and ULCCs. DL's strategy is certainly the most expensive out of the 3, but they do have the most cash of the 3. You can see WN/AS/B6 also doing the same with the middle seat blocking.

UA's strategy is fine. It's burning less cash than both DL and AA. I actually think it will be down by more than 30% next summer due to having the most international exposure, but we will see.


Probably worth pointing out that AA's cash burn was at $70M at the beginning of May, and they are expecting it to be at $40M by the end of June. So clearly their increased schedule is working for them.

UA's cash burn started from a much lower base ($50M entering Q2), and they have said they only expect it to go down to $40-$45M by end of June


I'm sure UA will make further updates on this, but my interpretation of their comments is that 40 to 45 million is for Q2 overall. And that they expect to be $30 million for Q3. AA has been very bullish about demand coming back so far. Advertising a 55% domestic schedule for July will bring cash in for June, but it will become costly in July once they have to actually operate that schedule. Capacity is doubling across the board from June to July. I don't think we are going to run into a situation like the past 2 or 3 weeks when demand caught back much faster than capacity coming back.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:49 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting comments that I saw Brian Sumers posted.
"Some of our competitors are flying a bigger July schedules than we are, by selling extremely low-priced tickets, and wasting money to fly those extra flights"

And apparently this is what DL has said.
"Ed noted that each airline is taking a different approach in their recovery strategy. The revenue being booked now is discount-based - Delta's pricing is down about 10% and Ed estimates that pricing at other airlines with more capacity out there is down between 20-30%. Chasing traffic is expensive and degrades the brand and quality of the experience..... He expressed with confidence that we will get our premium customers back... by keeping load factor caps and ensuring quality of experience".

I think UA's comments are more directed toward employee's complaints about AA and WN running a large schedule, but especially AA. DL's comment about heavy discounting probably is geared toward not just AA but also WN and ULCCs. DL's strategy is certainly the most expensive out of the 3, but they do have the most cash of the 3. You can see WN/AS/B6 also doing the same with the middle seat blocking.

UA's strategy is fine. It's burning less cash than both DL and AA. I actually think it will be down by more than 30% next summer due to having the most international exposure, but we will see.


Probably worth pointing out that AA's cash burn was at $70M at the beginning of May, and they are expecting it to be at $40M by the end of June. So clearly their increased schedule is working for them.

UA's cash burn started from a much lower base ($50M entering Q2), and they have said they only expect it to go down to $40-$45M by end of June

In April, UA was burning 100M a day. So they’ll have slashed it by 60% by the end of June. UA simply cut their cash burn sooner then AA.


I believe you are referring to March, UA said in their earnings call they entered Q2 burning $50M:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/434216 ... art=single

AA's Q1 Operating expenses were 11.1B to UA's 8.9B, so even pushing out farther to March, UA still likely started at a lower base as revenue would have been close to zero for everyone by the end of Q1.

Regardless, the point I was making was that AA's recent schedule changes significantly benefited their cash burn rate, while UA's cash burn has had little change since April.

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
interesting comments that I saw Brian Sumers posted.
"Some of our competitors are flying a bigger July schedules than we are, by selling extremely low-priced tickets, and wasting money to fly those extra flights"

And apparently this is what DL has said.
"Ed noted that each airline is taking a different approach in their recovery strategy. The revenue being booked now is discount-based - Delta's pricing is down about 10% and Ed estimates that pricing at other airlines with more capacity out there is down between 20-30%. Chasing traffic is expensive and degrades the brand and quality of the experience..... He expressed with confidence that we will get our premium customers back... by keeping load factor caps and ensuring quality of experience".

I think UA's comments are more directed toward employee's complaints about AA and WN running a large schedule, but especially AA. DL's comment about heavy discounting probably is geared toward not just AA but also WN and ULCCs. DL's strategy is certainly the most expensive out of the 3, but they do have the most cash of the 3. You can see WN/AS/B6 also doing the same with the middle seat blocking.

UA's strategy is fine. It's burning less cash than both DL and AA. I actually think it will be down by more than 30% next summer due to having the most international exposure, but we will see.


Probably worth pointing out that AA's cash burn was at $70M at the beginning of May, and they are expecting it to be at $40M by the end of June. So clearly their increased schedule is working for them.

UA's cash burn started from a much lower base ($50M entering Q2), and they have said they only expect it to go down to $40-$45M by end of June


Advertising a 55% domestic schedule for July will bring cash in for June, but it will become costly in July once they have to actually operate that schedule.


Do you not think they have factored that in? They aren't going to put out a schedule that is going to increase cash burn
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:12 am

UA’s July schedule while similar to DL’s in terms of flights (ish) is very far behind in terms of seats. UA will offer about only 2/3 the amount of seats DL will. DL will also only offer a fraction of what AA is offering. This shows the shear size of UA’s cuts.
 
n7371f
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:02 am

The -222 were gone by 99. The ex Frontier -291A/2A1A left November 1, 2001 in masse along with the 727 fleet due to 9/11.

MO11 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
When did UA retire their original 737-222s they bought new from Boeing in 1968-69? I know they retired the 737-200 completely Halloween 2001 due to 9/11, but those were the old FL 737-291s. By then the -222s were gone. I assumed they were retired in 1998 but I saw a photo of N9015U that said it was retired in 2000, which surprised me. That would be 32 years of service.



I show N9015U last flight was 3/25/98. For many of the airplanes, there was a long period between the retirement date, and the date the airplane was disposed, making some of the website data less accurate. I would guess late 1998 for the -222s, and late 2001 for the -291s/-2A1s.
 
LHUSA
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:30 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
UA’s July schedule while similar to DL’s in terms of flights (ish) is very far behind in terms of seats. UA will offer about only 2/3 the amount of seats DL will. DL will also only offer a fraction of what AA is offering. This shows the shear size of UA’s cuts.


DL is also capping at 60% while United is not. United is also upgauging many flights. A few weeks back it was said that United upgauged over 100 flights in a single day. I know DL is upping gauge too, just not sure how much.
 
Philippine747
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:15 am

N9001U, or the first 732(non-Adv) built, left UAL and entered service with Air Philippines as RP-C2021 around early 1997.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE BR
 
LGeneReese
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:59 am

MO11 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
When did UA retire their original 737-222s they bought new from Boeing in 1968-69? I know they retired the 737-200 completely Halloween 2001 due to 9/11, but those were the old FL 737-291s. By then the -222s were gone. I assumed they were retired in 1998 but I saw a photo of N9015U that said it was retired in 2000, which surprised me. That would be 32 years of service.



I show N9015U last flight was 3/25/98. For many of the airplanes, there was a long period between the retirement date, and the date the airplane was disposed, making some of the website data less accurate. I would guess late 1998 for the -222s, and late 2001 for the -291s/-2A1s.

Small world... When I was a kid we took some visiting family to ONT to go home. ONT gates were all outside hardstands back then. The plane they flew home on was N9015U.... I kept track of that sort of thing even then...
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:08 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

Do you not think they have factored that in? They aren't going to put out a schedule that is going to increase cash burn


I think there is different risk assessment at AA vs UA/DL based on the statements they've made about how much smaller the industry will be a year from now. UA and DL have both implied they are aiming to be about 30% smaller next summer vs 2019. I find it hard to see AA's cash burn come further down in Q3 as their variable cost goes up from increased flying. At this point, UA and DL have made their massive displacements and are ready to furlough front line crewmembers when Oct rolls around. That will really bring down their cost. AA has only talked about 30% managerial so far.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
UA’s July schedule while similar to DL’s in terms of flights (ish) is very far behind in terms of seats. UA will offer about only 2/3 the amount of seats DL will. DL will also only offer a fraction of what AA is offering. This shows the shear size of UA’s cuts.


Actually you are wrong UA and DL are taking a similar approach to capacity while DL has more aircraft in the air they are also limiting capacity to 60%. Whereas UA with less flights offers the same capacity at 100%. DL has hinted they may keep the 60% cap in place until September 30th.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I definitely think it’s premature to cut up to 30% for next year. UA should expect others to pounce at already cut throat hubs like EWR, DEN, LAX, and even ORD.


Every single major US carrier has said they will be smaller coming out of COVID-19 than they were going into COVID-19. As much as airlines would like to see a snap back many even WN has stated a full recovery will take 2-4 years. Every single major carrier is offering some type of voluntary furlough to get their employee numbers down. If you are referring to LCCs and ULCCs there is only so much damage they can do given the cylindrical nature of leisure travel. One thing we all have to realize and accept is traffic will not magically reappear, even if we have a vaccine by summer 2021 the world as we know it has changed, travel needs and demands have changed. The mentality of "if you build it they will come" will land an airline in bankruptcy.

Pre-COVID there was a lot of excess capacity in certain US markets, that excess capacity suppressed yields. Take for example BOS while not a UA hub or focus city prior to this crisis there was a lot of excess capacity in BOS as airlines duked it out sacrificing yield for market share. As we turn the corner in this crisis you are going to see airlines like UA focus more so on yield and profitable flying than simply chasing market share. That doesn't not mean basic economy is going away it means UA will have a renewed focus on the bottom line than on the total number of flights in the air. We are going to see right sizing taking place in markets all across this country. To say an airline is going to pounce I don't buy it because even if the LCCs and ULCCs reactivated their entire fleet there is only so much damage they can inflict. If an airline like NK decides to go all in at EWR (the most expensive airport in the country) they have to pull aircraft off other routes the same is true of F9.

UA saying we will be around 30% smaller in 2021 vs 2019 is wonderful news because no one expected UA to be back to pre-COVID levels in 2021. I would rather UA focus on profitable flying than on market share because airlines like UA need to start preparing now for the next pandemic or the next crisis. When I read statements like the one above I start to think people like you have lost sight of the goal and the goal is survival and preparedness. Airlines that go back to business as usual will not survive the next crisis or pandemic because expectations have changed. The new benchmark COVID-19 is and airlines need to get wot work filling their coffers. While we can spend all day arguing over the right path, the truth is preparedness for the next event starts with profitable flying.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Do you not think they have factored that in? They aren't going to put out a schedule that is going to increase cash burn


I think there is different risk assessment at AA vs UA/DL based on the statements they've made about how much smaller the industry will be a year from now. UA and DL have both implied they are aiming to be about 30% smaller next summer vs 2019. I find it hard to see AA's cash burn come further down in Q3 as their variable cost goes up from increased flying. At this point, UA and DL have made their massive displacements and are ready to furlough front line crewmembers when Oct rolls around. That will really bring down their cost. AA has only talked about 30% managerial so far.


DL has never said they want to be 30% smaller next summer to my knowledge

The calculus is the same for each airline right now, get cash burn down to zero, it isn't more complex than that.

If you park your planes and don't fly anything, you simply absorb the cost, which makes sense when loads are in the single digits and teens like in April or early May. However, it doesn't make sense if you are getting load factors in the 70s, and fuel prices are where they are. Even if you are not necessarily making money, you are likely burning less than if you grounded the plane and are still paying for the labor, rent, & all the overhead.

This is likely the exact calculation AA has made, and so far it is working for them.
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tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:55 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Do you not think they have factored that in? They aren't going to put out a schedule that is going to increase cash burn


I think there is different risk assessment at AA vs UA/DL based on the statements they've made about how much smaller the industry will be a year from now. UA and DL have both implied they are aiming to be about 30% smaller next summer vs 2019. I find it hard to see AA's cash burn come further down in Q3 as their variable cost goes up from increased flying. At this point, UA and DL have made their massive displacements and are ready to furlough front line crewmembers when Oct rolls around. That will really bring down their cost. AA has only talked about 30% managerial so far.


DL has never said they want to be 30% smaller next summer to my knowledge

The calculus is the same for each airline right now, get cash burn down to zero, it isn't more complex than that.

If you park your planes and don't fly anything, you simply absorb the cost, which makes sense when loads are in the single digits and teens like in April or early May. However, it doesn't make sense if you are getting load factors in the 70s, and fuel prices are where they are. Even if you are not necessarily making money, you are likely burning less than if you grounded the plane and are still paying for the labor, rent, & all the overhead.

This is likely the exact calculation AA has made, and so far it is working for them.


DL told their employees they will be at 75% 2019 capacity at end of 2021 and their other comments suggested about 30% smaller for next summer. Even AS is saying they will be 20% smaller. Of course, all these things are subject to change based on demand level. But once headcount reduction is made after October, it's harder to be flexible. So what should each airline do?

And AA has been burning cash faster than UA/DL in Q2.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:59 pm

Tangentially-related to this, it looks like the last 737-200 of any kind owned by UA had an exit date of August 2011. Did it really sit for 10 years before being given new life?

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ana/38y94r
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
UA772IAD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:14 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
UA’s July schedule while similar to DL’s in terms of flights (ish) is very far behind in terms of seats. UA will offer about only 2/3 the amount of seats DL will. DL will also only offer a fraction of what AA is offering. This shows the shear size of UA’s cuts.


Actually you are wrong UA and DL are taking a similar approach to capacity while DL has more aircraft in the air they are also limiting capacity to 60%. Whereas UA with less flights offers the same capacity at 100%. DL has hinted they may keep the 60% cap in place until September 30th.



I wonder if this is a prudent strategy - to attempt to operate at 100% capacity, and if this is why we have seen aircarft upgaging. I cannot imagine how UA can justify filling a flight to 100% capacity while every other business and mode of public transportation that is allowed to currently operate must do so at limited capacity; particularly as many reopened states are seeing an increase in cases.

Someone upthread mentioned brand dilution when it comes to chasing lower fares... having flown several times since the pandemic began, including in premium cabins, I can tell you there is no feeling of brand identity. Flying right now is a very sterile experience- and it would be hard to justify the premium charged to fly on a carrier which normally offers more "premium" services- because they simply do not exist right now.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I think there is different risk assessment at AA vs UA/DL based on the statements they've made about how much smaller the industry will be a year from now. UA and DL have both implied they are aiming to be about 30% smaller next summer vs 2019. I find it hard to see AA's cash burn come further down in Q3 as their variable cost goes up from increased flying. At this point, UA and DL have made their massive displacements and are ready to furlough front line crewmembers when Oct rolls around. That will really bring down their cost. AA has only talked about 30% managerial so far.


DL has never said they want to be 30% smaller next summer to my knowledge

The calculus is the same for each airline right now, get cash burn down to zero, it isn't more complex than that.

If you park your planes and don't fly anything, you simply absorb the cost, which makes sense when loads are in the single digits and teens like in April or early May. However, it doesn't make sense if you are getting load factors in the 70s, and fuel prices are where they are. Even if you are not necessarily making money, you are likely burning less than if you grounded the plane and are still paying for the labor, rent, & all the overhead.

This is likely the exact calculation AA has made, and so far it is working for them.


DL told their employees they will be at 75% 2019 capacity at end of 2021 and their other comments suggested about 30% smaller for next summer. Even AS is saying they will be 20% smaller. Of course, all these things are subject to change based on demand level. But once headcount reduction is made after October, it's harder to be flexible. So what should each airline do?

And AA has been burning cash faster than UA/DL in Q2.


"Delta Air Lines and its pilots union said they are working to avoid furloughs of roughly 2,300 pilots following a reshuffling process meant to match staffing to summer 2021 flying"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/delta-u ... ilots.html

That roughly a 16% reduction in pilots

Please show me where you are seeing DL saying they will be 30% smaller during next summer

You are right AA "has been" burning cash faster, but since they increased their schedule they are now expected to burn the same amount of cash as the other US3. The argument that is isn't working for them doesn't hold any water, as they have brought cash burn down by $30M in 2 months.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:19 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
UA’s July schedule while similar to DL’s in terms of flights (ish) is very far behind in terms of seats. UA will offer about only 2/3 the amount of seats DL will. DL will also only offer a fraction of what AA is offering. This shows the shear size of UA’s cuts.


Actually you are wrong UA and DL are taking a similar approach to capacity while DL has more aircraft in the air they are also limiting capacity to 60%. Whereas UA with less flights offers the same capacity at 100%. DL has hinted they may keep the 60% cap in place until September 30th.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I definitely think it’s premature to cut up to 30% for next year. UA should expect others to pounce at already cut throat hubs like EWR, DEN, LAX, and even ORD.


Every single major US carrier has said they will be smaller coming out of COVID-19 than they were going into COVID-19. As much as airlines would like to see a snap back many even WN has stated a full recovery will take 2-4 years. Every single major carrier is offering some type of voluntary furlough to get their employee numbers down. If you are referring to LCCs and ULCCs there is only so much damage they can do given the cylindrical nature of leisure travel. One thing we all have to realize and accept is traffic will not magically reappear, even if we have a vaccine by summer 2021 the world as we know it has changed, travel needs and demands have changed. The mentality of "if you build it they will come" will land an airline in bankruptcy.

Pre-COVID there was a lot of excess capacity in certain US markets, that excess capacity suppressed yields. Take for example BOS while not a UA hub or focus city prior to this crisis there was a lot of excess capacity in BOS as airlines duked it out sacrificing yield for market share. As we turn the corner in this crisis you are going to see airlines like UA focus more so on yield and profitable flying than simply chasing market share. That doesn't not mean basic economy is going away it means UA will have a renewed focus on the bottom line than on the total number of flights in the air. We are going to see right sizing taking place in markets all across this country. To say an airline is going to pounce I don't buy it because even if the LCCs and ULCCs reactivated their entire fleet there is only so much damage they can inflict. If an airline like NK decides to go all in at EWR (the most expensive airport in the country) they have to pull aircraft off other routes the same is true of F9.

UA saying we will be around 30% smaller in 2021 vs 2019 is wonderful news because no one expected UA to be back to pre-COVID levels in 2021. I would rather UA focus on profitable flying than on market share because airlines like UA need to start preparing now for the next pandemic or the next crisis. When I read statements like the one above I start to think people like you have lost sight of the goal and the goal is survival and preparedness. Airlines that go back to business as usual will not survive the next crisis or pandemic because expectations have changed. The new benchmark COVID-19 is and airlines need to get wot work filling their coffers. While we can spend all day arguing over the right path, the truth is preparedness for the next event starts with profitable flying.


While I’m not (nor anyone) is expecting air travel to bounce back immediately we can see it is already coming back but slowly. There is strong leisure demand and some carriers are taking advantage of it while others like UA are not. If we look at EWR I compiled a list of the % of departures compared to previous schedules.

AA - 56%
AS - 25%
B6 - 41%
DL - 31%
F9 - 44%
NK - 100%
UA - 26%

While UA should hold a lower % solely because of their large footprint at the airport, they are still lacking. NK has already added to their August schedule so they will be over 40% larger than they were last year during the same time at EWR. NK will offer over 3.4 million seats this upcoming year. Why would NK just let UA sit on 115+ “slots” next summer if they, amongst others want to grow? NK is already suing over 16 slots never mind 115 of them!

On top of this, F9 has already announced 3 new routes for EWR. I don’t think anyone anticipates them stopping soon. B6 will also have room to grow with most of their routes being largely targeting a leisure crowd. Finally, you mentioned a lack of aircraft. I don’t think anyone will have a lack of aircraft coming out of this. Airlines will feed the aircraft to destinations that could use them profitably. Since UA isn’t there at large airports like EWR LCC’s will need fill the gap.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:31 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

DL has never said they want to be 30% smaller next summer to my knowledge

The calculus is the same for each airline right now, get cash burn down to zero, it isn't more complex than that.

If you park your planes and don't fly anything, you simply absorb the cost, which makes sense when loads are in the single digits and teens like in April or early May. However, it doesn't make sense if you are getting load factors in the 70s, and fuel prices are where they are. Even if you are not necessarily making money, you are likely burning less than if you grounded the plane and are still paying for the labor, rent, & all the overhead.

This is likely the exact calculation AA has made, and so far it is working for them.


DL told their employees they will be at 75% 2019 capacity at end of 2021 and their other comments suggested about 30% smaller for next summer. Even AS is saying they will be 20% smaller. Of course, all these things are subject to change based on demand level. But once headcount reduction is made after October, it's harder to be flexible. So what should each airline do?

And AA has been burning cash faster than UA/DL in Q2.


"Delta Air Lines and its pilots union said they are working to avoid furloughs of roughly 2,300 pilots following a reshuffling process meant to match staffing to summer 2021 flying"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/delta-u ... ilots.html

That roughly a 16% reduction in pilots

Please show me where you are seeing DL saying they will be 30% smaller during next summer

You are right AA "has been" burning cash faster, but since they increased their schedule they are now expected to burn the same amount of cash as the other US3. The argument that is isn't working for them doesn't hold any water, as they have brought cash burn down by $30M in 2 months.


Go to their pilot forum on one of the townhalls threads. That's what they told their own employees. I don't know what more I can say.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:50 pm

From a very limited set of data: large extended family and friends who varied from frequent to seldom fliers. The only travel has been somewhat essential family travel, and repatriation travel from colleges and armed forces/naval employment. And all of these have done a strict voluntary 14 day quarantine after travel and before going back to work or seeing family.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:

DL told their employees they will be at 75% 2019 capacity at end of 2021 and their other comments suggested about 30% smaller for next summer. Even AS is saying they will be 20% smaller. Of course, all these things are subject to change based on demand level. But once headcount reduction is made after October, it's harder to be flexible. So what should each airline do?

And AA has been burning cash faster than UA/DL in Q2.


"Delta Air Lines and its pilots union said they are working to avoid furloughs of roughly 2,300 pilots following a reshuffling process meant to match staffing to summer 2021 flying"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/delta-u ... ilots.html

That roughly a 16% reduction in pilots

Please show me where you are seeing DL saying they will be 30% smaller during next summer

You are right AA "has been" burning cash faster, but since they increased their schedule they are now expected to burn the same amount of cash as the other US3. The argument that is isn't working for them doesn't hold any water, as they have brought cash burn down by $30M in 2 months.


Go to their pilot forum on one of the townhalls threads. That's what they told their own employees. I don't know what more I can say.


:lol: C'mon now, I literally just linked DL & the pilots union's latest furlough estimate, I'm not going to sift through pilot rumors(likely out of date anyway at this point) when the answer is right there
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:57 pm

I'm one of UA's biggest fans and OK with the cash preservation program --- but my continued concern is about seat size on aircraft flown. I must admit I don't have load factors on any UA flights to see if this is appropriate and maybe UA will be reactivating more larger narrow bodies soon.

DL has stated it will hold loads to 60% in coach and 50% in F. UA has not placed a limit on seating, even though they will probably continue to block middle seats on seat map - can we assume if more people book those middle seats will be sold?

If UA wants to operate a more restrictive schedule than AA and DL to increase yield, is it reasonable that UA can operate fuller flights at higher ticket prices vs. AA/DL with lower fares and seat restrictions?

An Airways Magazine article 4 days ago said DL is reactivating narrowbodies and so far only larger seats sized 321s and 739s have been reactivated.

UA is flying the lowest percentage of flights in larger 739 and 752 fleets and higher percentage in 319/73G/320 fleets. Today's fleet utilization is below (type, seats: units flying/total units % flying). Also note that UA has over 80% of 739s and 752s stored/parked more than 14 days at this point.:
319, 126 seats: 21/50 35.1% ----- (parked more than 14 days 34/74,46%)
73G, 126 seats: 11/40 27.5% ---- (parked more than 14 days 51/97,52.6%)
320, 150 seats: 30/97 30.9% ----- (parked more than 14 days 17/40,42.5%)
738, 166 seats: 26/141 17.0% --- (parked more than 14 days 71/141,50.4%)
739, 179 seats: 19/148 12.8% --- (parked more than 14 days 112/148, 81.1%)
752: 172 seats*: 4/47 7.8% ------- (parked more than 14 days 44/51,86.3%) (*avg with 3 of 7 in active service having new config)
753: 234 seats: 2/21 19% --------- (parked more than 14 days 11/21,52.4%) (2 additional aircraft are flying military charters today)
So, the narrow bodied total seats offered today on flying units is 17,405 and the 116 units flying average 150.1 seats. This seats size calculation assumes each unit flies roughly the same number of flights. However, at least half the 739s flying today have only 1 flight scheduled, lowering the average by some minor amount.
 
UA444
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:21 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Tangentially-related to this, it looks like the last 737-200 of any kind owned by UA had an exit date of August 2011. Did it really sit for 10 years before being given new life?

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ana/38y94r

I remember seeing one in full UA colors in VCV in 2007. Somehow the owner must’ve really wanted to hang on to it and then waited until someone called.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:45 pm

It seems many are forgetting how serious things are across the global economy and what airlines are truly facing.

Look back at 2008-2009 downturn and you'll see how hard travel was hit. A seemingly small 13.1% decline in U.S. corporate travel led to 144,000 airline and support job losses with billions in red ink that took a good half-decade plus to dig out of.

Today we are looking at a situation corporate travel virtually having come to a halt entirely with a global recession around us. The magnitude of this hit is far worse than 2008-2009, so the idea that an airline will only be back to 70% capacity in 2021 is actually pretty optimistic in my view. Personally I see an even smaller industry so long as people's health cannot be assured and we must operate under various restrictions globally that will slow consumer activity and high-value corporate travel which is critical for legacy operators.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
eugdjinn
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:07 pm

One of the things I don't see anyone factoring in is this: AA is quite cleverly using their wholly owned regionals to do a substantial amount of that increased flying right now. Those are planes they own, and people whose paychecks they are on the hook for anyway. Nothing to lose. UA isn't in a position to do that since they can't officially own a regional due to that surviving kill clause sitting in the FA contract. (Maybe it has outlasted it's usefulness??) As a result, PSA, Piedmont, and Envoy can be put to use earning some of their guarantee pay flying increasing schedules as demand picks up in their backyards, and mainline when demand grows to that point, without killing the airline. Whereas DL and UA are so much more dependent on CPA regional flying where they will have to pay the full fee for departure to the contracted regional even if the flight is empty.

Too, someone asked way up-thread why it is that UA is flying so many CRJ200s instead of ERJ145s - it's a pretty simple answer - on the West Coast, and now in Denver with TSA gone, the only UAX contractor available with 50 seat lift is SkyWest who do not fly and have sworn NEVER to fly a 145. Other than the 175, they are a CRJ house, so you have to deal with 200s. Should ExpressJet survive, and get its house in order, they may someday open the elusive DEN base and you'll see 145XRs there again. (I'd give them a 50-50 chance of folding altogether though, even with Papa Willis paying the bill, they seem to be a nightmare internally.)
 
CRJ5000
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:01 pm

WARN notices have to go out August 1st if they want to furloughs on Oct. 1st. They've got just under 2 months to make a decision. After that the airlines with a diverse fleet are going to have quite a mess with training from all the displacements from different aircraft types. Airlines are going to have to guess on what the recovery will look like and hope that they're right.
 
DUSdude
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:05 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Tangentially-related to this, it looks like the last 737-200 of any kind owned by UA had an exit date of August 2011. Did it really sit for 10 years before being given new life?

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ana/38y94r


Looks like it really did sit in the desert in full colors all that time:



Was flown out with just basic titles whited out:

 
N649DL
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:17 pm

I flew EWR-DCA-MIA-ORD-EWR and got a UAL System Timetable Guide at ORD at one of the ticketing counters in 2/2000. The 737-200, 727-200, 747-200, 747-100, DC-10-10, & DC-10-30 all had UAL seating maps in that huge booklet. So I would guess final retirement was late 2000 or early 2001, unless UA just kept them in there for reference post retirement.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:51 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
WARN notices have to go out August 1st if they want to furloughs on Oct. 1st. They've got just under 2 months to make a decision. After that the airlines with a diverse fleet are going to have quite a mess with training from all the displacements from different aircraft types. Airlines are going to have to guess on what the recovery will look like and hope that they're right.

FWIW, if UAL furloughs more than about 2300 pilots on Oct 1 the notices to them will go out in early July for the 90 days notice per the pilot contract. Thus, we should have a preliminary peek at UAL's Oct 1 fleet plan in July.
 
CRJ5000
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:15 pm

airplanedriver6 wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:
WARN notices have to go out August 1st if they want to furloughs on Oct. 1st. They've got just under 2 months to make a decision. After that the airlines with a diverse fleet are going to have quite a mess with training from all the displacements from different aircraft types. Airlines are going to have to guess on what the recovery will look like and hope that they're right.

FWIW, if UAL furloughs more than about 2300 pilots on Oct 1 the notices to them will go out in early July for the 90 days notice per the pilot contract. Thus, we should have a preliminary peek at UAL's Oct 1 fleet plan in July.


Thanks for the info. Good to know. Tough to keep up with all the different labor contracts.
 
MO11
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:25 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Tangentially-related to this, it looks like the last 737-200 of any kind owned by UA had an exit date of August 2011. Did it really sit for 10 years before being given new life?

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ana/38y94r


No, this airplane was retired by UA at the end of 2001, moved to Victorville, and eventually sold in August 2005. It left Victorville June 30, 2011 for its next adventure in Venezuela.
 
TW870
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:28 pm

n7371f wrote:
The -222 were gone by 99. The ex Frontier -291A/2A1A left November 1, 2001 in masse along with the 727 fleet due to 9/11.

MO11 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
When did UA retire their original 737-222s they bought new from Boeing in 1968-69? I know they retired the 737-200 completely Halloween 2001 due to 9/11, but those were the old FL 737-291s. By then the -222s were gone. I assumed they were retired in 1998 but I saw a photo of N9015U that said it was retired in 2000, which surprised me. That would be 32 years of service.



I show N9015U last flight was 3/25/98. For many of the airplanes, there was a long period between the retirement date, and the date the airplane was disposed, making some of the website data less accurate. I would guess late 1998 for the -222s, and late 2001 for the -291s/-2A1s.


I started as an FA in 9/98 and I believe the -222s had been revised out of our manuals by my start date, and I only touched the -291As and -2A1As on the line. The -222s were very different from a flight attendant perspective because they had the old thermal trays rather than the retrofitted "new tech carts" as the -291As and -2A1As had. The transition out for the final -222s was in the fall of 1998, though, as I did have a thermal tray training class. It often takes training curricula a bit to catch up, as they leave course material in just in case they reactivate newly retired airplanes before they actually ferry off the property.
 
ordbosewr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:42 pm

LAXintl wrote:
It seems many are forgetting how serious things are across the global economy and what airlines are truly facing.

Look back at 2008-2009 downturn and you'll see how hard travel was hit. A seemingly small 13.1% decline in U.S. corporate travel led to 144,000 airline and support job losses with billions in red ink that took a good half-decade plus to dig out of.

Today we are looking at a situation corporate travel virtually having come to a halt entirely with a global recession around us. The magnitude of this hit is far worse than 2008-2009, so the idea that an airline will only be back to 70% capacity in 2021 is actually pretty optimistic in my view. Personally I see an even smaller industry so long as people's health cannot be assured and we must operate under various restrictions globally that will slow consumer activity and high-value corporate travel which is critical for legacy operators.


I can not agree more with this perspective. Speaking as person in corporate america with a large group of folks that do alot of travel. Very little of those folks are traveling. For this to happen, offices must open. We have to have our offices open, we need our customers offices to open. Once they are open then we can start to have a debate if and how in-person meetings will be conducted.
I can tell you that so far, we have not see any definitive direction on what my company expects and what it will look like.
Even if we had all of these answers travel is not going to start overnight. It will take time.
I am not even talking about international business travel, I am focused on domestic.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:10 pm

TW870 wrote:
n7371f wrote:
The -222 were gone by 99. The ex Frontier -291A/2A1A left November 1, 2001 in masse along with the 727 fleet due to 9/11.

MO11 wrote:


I show N9015U last flight was 3/25/98. For many of the airplanes, there was a long period between the retirement date, and the date the airplane was disposed, making some of the website data less accurate. I would guess late 1998 for the -222s, and late 2001 for the -291s/-2A1s.


I started as an FA in 9/98 and I believe the -222s had been revised out of our manuals by my start date, and I only touched the -291As and -2A1As on the line. The -222s were very different from a flight attendant perspective because they had the old thermal trays rather than the retrofitted "new tech carts" as the -291As and -2A1As had. The transition out for the final -222s was in the fall of 1998, though, as I did have a thermal tray training class. It often takes training curricula a bit to catch up, as they leave course material in just in case they reactivate newly retired airplanes before they actually ferry off the property.


What is a thermal tray?
 
freakyrat
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:04 pm

I rode these many times between ORD and SBN.
 
TW870
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Re: When did UA retire their 737-222?

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:20 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
n7371f wrote:
The -222 were gone by 99. The ex Frontier -291A/2A1A left November 1, 2001 in masse along with the 727 fleet due to 9/11.



I started as an FA in 9/98 and I believe the -222s had been revised out of our manuals by my start date, and I only touched the -291As and -2A1As on the line. The -222s were very different from a flight attendant perspective because they had the old thermal trays rather than the retrofitted "new tech carts" as the -291As and -2A1As had. The transition out for the final -222s was in the fall of 1998, though, as I did have a thermal tray training class. It often takes training curricula a bit to catch up, as they leave course material in just in case they reactivate newly retired airplanes before they actually ferry off the property.


What is a thermal tray?


Since there were no ovens for the economy class cabin, all meals were boarded in these stacked, bundled, thermally insulated trays in a closet in the back of the airplane. The 737-200 originally flew lots of short, milk-run type trips when it was introduced into the fleet in the late-1960s and 1970s, so they opted not to take up cabin space with traditional tray carts and ovens. The thermal trays were a workaround for the times when the airplane ended up on longer segments during meal times. Since they bought the -291As and -2A1As used later on, they outfitted them to the state of the art of the late-1980s, which was the "new tech" cart, an integrated system that cooked the entrees on hotplates inside the cart. This eliminated the need for coach ovens. These later 737-200s, as well as all 737-300s, 500s, 757s, 767-300ERs, and 747-400s had the new tech carts.
 
Sevensixtyseven
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:37 pm

eugdjinn wrote:
One of the things I don't see anyone factoring in is this: AA is quite cleverly using their wholly owned regionals to do a substantial amount of that increased flying right now. Those are planes they own, and people whose paychecks they are on the hook for anyway. Nothing to lose. UA isn't in a position to do that since they can't officially own a regional due to that surviving kill clause sitting in the FA contract. (Maybe it has outlasted it's usefulness??) As a result, PSA, Piedmont, and Envoy can be put to use earning some of their guarantee pay flying increasing schedules as demand picks up in their backyards, and mainline when demand grows to that point, without killing the airline. Whereas DL and UA are so much more dependent on CPA regional flying where they will have to pay the full fee for departure to the contracted regional even if the flight is empty.

Too, someone asked way up-thread why it is that UA is flying so many CRJ200s instead of ERJ145s - it's a pretty simple answer - on the West Coast, and now in Denver with TSA gone, the only UAX contractor available with 50 seat lift is SkyWest who do not fly and have sworn NEVER to fly a 145. Other than the 175, they are a CRJ house, so you have to deal with 200s. Should ExpressJet survive, and get its house in order, they may someday open the elusive DEN base and you'll see 145XRs there again. (I'd give them a 50-50 chance of folding altogether though, even with Papa Willis paying the bill, they seem to be a nightmare internally.)


From my knowledge & understanding, UA is leaning extremely heavily on RJ operators, at least at my airport, IAH. XJT and Mesa are picking up most of the shorter flights in and out of Houston, with the remainder being SkyWest. I haven't seen a Republic frame in IAH in a while, and those used to be popping up here and there on hub-spoke-hub routes out of IAH. I don't believe a single Mesa E75 is laid up, and they're even (as of now) planning to run a IAH-IAD flight in July with one. This particular route (and IAH-ONT and IAH-RNO) are at the edge of the operational range of the E75, at least where Houston routes are concerned. I would think Mesa is both happy and terrified at the same time, if AA is using Mesa a bit less in DFW, and a lot less in PHX, even if UA is throwing them buckets of money to operate their E75s out of IAH and IAD, as well as a gaggle of tired CRJ-700s out of IAD.
I call the dusty desert my home. :)
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:46 am

Sevensixtyseven wrote:
From my knowledge & understanding, UA is leaning extremely heavily on RJ operators, at least at my airport, IAH. XJT and Mesa are picking up most of the shorter flights in and out of Houston, with the remainder being SkyWest. I haven't seen a Republic frame in IAH in a while, and those used to be popping up here and there on hub-spoke-hub routes out of IAH. I don't believe a single Mesa E75 is laid up, and they're even (as of now) planning to run a IAH-IAD flight in July with one. This particular route (and IAH-ONT and IAH-RNO) are at the edge of the operational range of the E75, at least where Houston routes are concerned. I would think Mesa is both happy and terrified at the same time, if AA is using Mesa a bit less in DFW, and a lot less in PHX, even if UA is throwing them buckets of money to operate their E75s out of IAH and IAD, as well as a gaggle of tired CRJ-700s out of IAD.

This is definitely the case at IAD. During the 3pm bank, at least 90% or more of the flights coming in from the south and north are RJ, and most are indeed the CRJ7. Generally, the only mainline flights are coming from the west. Under normal circumstances, that push would usually be about 50/50.
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:02 am

UAX Update:

CR2:
N461AW parked at DAY
N652BR has returned to flying
N869AS parked at TUS
N679SA parked at FWA

E45XR:
N11107 has returned to flying
N17159 has returned to flying

E45;
N15986 has returned to flying

E175SC:
N607UX now flying with Skywest
N611UX now flying with Skywest
N613UX now flying with Skywest
N614UX now flying with Skywest
N615UX now flying with Skywest
N622UX now flying with Skywest
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:16 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I'm one of UA's biggest fans and OK with the cash preservation program --- but my continued concern is about seat size on aircraft flown. I must admit I don't have load factors on any UA flights to see if this is appropriate and maybe UA will be reactivating more larger narrow bodies soon.

DL has stated it will hold loads to 60% in coach and 50% in F. UA has not placed a limit on seating, even though they will probably continue to block middle seats on seat map - can we assume if more people book those middle seats will be sold?

If UA wants to operate a more restrictive schedule than AA and DL to increase yield, is it reasonable that UA can operate fuller flights at higher ticket prices vs. AA/DL with lower fares and seat restrictions?

An Airways Magazine article 4 days ago said DL is reactivating narrowbodies and so far only larger seats sized 321s and 739s have been reactivated.

UA is flying the lowest percentage of flights in larger 739 and 752 fleets and higher percentage in 319/73G/320 fleets. Today's fleet utilization is below (type, seats: units flying/total units % flying). Also note that UA has over 80% of 739s and 752s stored/parked more than 14 days at this point.:
319, 126 seats: 21/50 35.1% ----- (parked more than 14 days 34/74,46%)
73G, 126 seats: 11/40 27.5% ---- (parked more than 14 days 51/97,52.6%)
320, 150 seats: 30/97 30.9% ----- (parked more than 14 days 17/40,42.5%)
738, 166 seats: 26/141 17.0% --- (parked more than 14 days 71/141,50.4%)
739, 179 seats: 19/148 12.8% --- (parked more than 14 days 112/148, 81.1%)
752: 172 seats*: 4/47 7.8% ------- (parked more than 14 days 44/51,86.3%) (*avg with 3 of 7 in active service having new config)
753: 234 seats: 2/21 19% --------- (parked more than 14 days 11/21,52.4%) (2 additional aircraft are flying military charters today)
So, the narrow bodied total seats offered today on flying units is 17,405 and the 116 units flying average 150.1 seats. This seats size calculation assumes each unit flies roughly the same number of flights. However, at least half the 739s flying today have only 1 flight scheduled, lowering the average by some minor amount.


I’ve taken my 3rd flight on UA from EWR to MIA. Currently there is just one nonstop a day. (The second option has a stop in IAH, and costs much more than the nonstop)

I took these 3 flights over the past 3 weeks, each time UA has sent me an email saying “your flight is about 70% full, if you wish to rebook on another flight, no change fee will apply” - each flight I was in paid First, and traveling with a friend as my seat mate. Yesterday, the 738 was near totally full (if not 100% full). I WANT UNITED TO MAKE MONEY, but it does seem like this one nonstop should upguage to a 752 or add a second (maybe E175?) flight? I am sure HQ is watching this closely, but what would be the better move? A larger single nonstop or a second frequency? (Depending on the day this nonstop has had a 739, 738, A320 or 73G)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:02 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I definitely think it’s premature to cut up to 30% for next year. UA should expect others to pounce at already cut throat hubs like EWR, DEN, LAX, and even ORD.


With what demand?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Judge1310
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:33 pm

VC10er wrote:

I’ve taken my 3rd flight on UA from EWR to MIA. Currently there is just one nonstop a day. (The second option has a stop in IAH, and costs much more than the nonstop)

I took these 3 flights over the past 3 weeks, each time UA has sent me an email saying “your flight is about 70% full, if you wish to rebook on another flight, no change fee will apply” - each flight I was in paid First, and traveling with a friend as my seat mate. Yesterday, the 738 was near totally full (if not 100% full). I WANT UNITED TO MAKE MONEY, but it does seem like this one nonstop should upguage to a 752 or add a second (maybe E175?) flight? I am sure HQ is watching this closely, but what would be the better move? A larger single nonstop or a second frequency? (Depending on the day this nonstop has had a 739, 738, A320 or 73G)


The flight to MIA was most certainly not full in Y class (109/150 = 72.7% full), thus an upgauge wouldn't have been necessary. Trust when we say that Revenue Management, Airport Ops, Aircraft Routing, Crew Desk, and many other teams are watching all flights approaching 70% quite closely and will either upgauge or provide another closely departing flight when necessary. As an example, what used to be (for a short period) only 738s/9s plying between SFO-EWR have all now been upgauged to either 75/6/8 equipment.
 
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SQ22
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:31 pm

For discussing travel regulations during COVID-19 for certain dates feel free to start a dedicated thread in Travel, Polls & Preferences Forum, but keep this thread on topic. Thanks.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
VC10er wrote:

I’ve taken my 3rd flight on UA from EWR to MIA. Currently there is just one nonstop a day. (The second option has a stop in IAH, and costs much more than the nonstop)

I took these 3 flights over the past 3 weeks, each time UA has sent me an email saying “your flight is about 70% full, if you wish to rebook on another flight, no change fee will apply” - each flight I was in paid First, and traveling with a friend as my seat mate. Yesterday, the 738 was near totally full (if not 100% full). I WANT UNITED TO MAKE MONEY, but it does seem like this one nonstop should upguage to a 752 or add a second (maybe E175?) flight? I am sure HQ is watching this closely, but what would be the better move? A larger single nonstop or a second frequency? (Depending on the day this nonstop has had a 739, 738, A320 or 73G)


The flight to MIA was most certainly not full in Y class (109/150 = 72.7% full), thus an upgauge wouldn't have been necessary. Trust when we say that Revenue Management, Airport Ops, Aircraft Routing, Crew Desk, and many other teams are watching all flights approaching 70% quite closely and will either upgauge or provide another closely departing flight when necessary. As an example, what used to be (for a short period) only 738s/9s plying between SFO-EWR have all now been upgauged to either 75/6/8 equipment.



I am sure you are correct. The reason I “thought” the flight was “full” was due to the FA making several announcements as people were boarding “we have a very full flight today....” then the usual bit about bins and quickly taking your seat. I was in F, I never got up during the fight so I didn’t look back behind the curtain.

As I said, I’m certain UA is keeping a very close eye on every flight, but I was curious if UA would first upguage (IF OR WHEN) this one nonstop gets to the point where more seats are needed, or add a frequency? I just was curious what would be the wiser choice. (I admit I know nothing when it comes to these decisions!)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.

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