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KFTG
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:53 pm

Max sim time will be required per Boeing and regulatory guidelines.
 
sdh9
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:05 pm

KFTG wrote:
9ER sims have been at TK a few years now.


Sure, but the 9ER was in operation long before a sim was in Houston or Denver.
 
UA444
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:01 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
sdh9 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:

Would that be two more simulators? UA was already flying the MAX before it was grounded. Did they have a MAX simulator before or was all the training previously done in an actual airplane?


Training? There was no training other than an iPad CBT. The first time I touched a MAX was a revenue flight.

Until the grounding, the NG sims were more than adequate for training. Until recently United didn’t even have a -900 sim; they were all -800s.


Thanks for that info. I had assumed that all the NG training was done is the same SIM with only minor differences training between the 700, 800 and 900. I had no idea the MAX was going to be that much different since crews could technically fly any type.

Going forward, will all 737 pilots needs to get time in the new MAX sims to be qualified to fly the MAX or will they still be able to use the NG sims and simply incorporate new procedures unique to the MAX?

It wasn’t supposed to be different. Then two of them went down and Boeing got exposed.
 
FSDan
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:05 am

rjbesikof wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
flyer56 wrote:
Also reported the UA flight will stopover in ICN for a crew change who will same day turnaround to ICN. But I am wondering if they got UA confused with DL.


Apparently so. From my friends at UA, according to an ALPA email, the UA flights will stop in NRT, then another crew will fly NRT-China-NRT to be replaced by another crew flying NRT-SFO.

We shall see very soon, won't we?


Two questions:
1) Can people get off of the plane in Narita?
2) Why did they pick Shanghai as the city they wanted to serve?


1) I doubt they'll be selling NRT itineraries on these flights. With so little capacity to China overall from the U.S., all those seats will likely be needed for O&D.
2) Shanghai is the economic powerhouse of mainland China. Huge manufacturing region, major financial hub, massive population center. Beijing is important too, but I think the area around Shanghai has a lot more American investment.
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flyer56
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:02 am

rjbesikof wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
flyer56 wrote:
Also reported the UA flight will stopover in ICN for a crew change who will same day turnaround to ICN. But I am wondering if they got UA confused with DL.


Apparently so. From my friends at UA, according to an ALPA email, the UA flights will stop in NRT, then another crew will fly NRT-China-NRT to be replaced by another crew flying NRT-SFO.

We shall see very soon, won't we?


Two questions:
1) Can people get off of the plane in Narita?
2) Why did they pick Shanghai as the city they wanted to serve?


Question 1 - no specific information but maybe not. Certainly contingent on NRT allowing transit passengers anyway.
Question 2 - preCOVID UA had 5 daily flights to PVG: 2xSFO, 1xLAX, 1xORD,1xEWR. PEK had 4 daily and CTU had 3 weekly. During the crisis UA have been flying 30-39 cargo flights a week using passenger aircraft, something like PVG 2-3 daily, PEK 2-3 daily, CTU not quite daily. PVG has always been the most important to UA.

Also, flying to PEK has not always been straightforward during the epidemic. Sometimes flights have been required to land in some place like Hohot or Tianjin, then everyone gets a medical, and if all or nearly all clear continues to PEK. I cannot see foreign carriers doing this.
 
Skyblue39
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UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:26 am

Hi guys, just noticed that both Shannon and Manchester are no longer available for booking with United from EWR and will not be returning.
Is this the start of a reduction in TATL from EWR with UA? What other destinations could fall under the axe?
 
HTCone
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:47 am

Hardly surprising, 757s retiring, XLRs not arriving for another 3 years, the industry on it's knees and a likely enormous recession just beginning. The airlines will retreat to their core routes, as fringe / secondary routes are too risky in such uncertain times.

Still holding out an ever fading hope of a V shaped recovery....my income, like most in this industry, depends on it.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:59 am

I always think of MAN NYC as a major route

Yet AA cut it and now UA

Doesn’t anyone want to fly to Britain and not use Heathrow? It is crazy!
 
twicearound
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:09 am

jfklganyc wrote:
I always think of MAN NYC as a major route

Yet AA cut it and now UA

Doesn’t anyone want to fly to Britain and not use Heathrow? It is crazy!


They have really given DL/VS the USA-MAN market.

BA/AA: PHL-MAN
UA: 0
VS/DL: MCO, ATL, BOS, LAX, JFK
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:17 am

SNN is primarily a leisure destination and a seasonal one, though in normal times, a longer one. MAN is a bit surprising, in that this is a legacy CO route that launched in the mid-1990s and has generally performed. It has been operated with DC10s, 767-400ERs, 767-300ERs, 757s, but in the current climate, with a sharply reduced demand for travel and uncertainty over quarantine periods, it is not surprising to see these routes suspended only to potentially restart if and when things recover in 2021 or beyond. I'm not sure DL/VS owning the US-MAN market is a big deal, frankly. VS are in a precarious situation, just like the rest of the industry so no one is actually winning here.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:19 am

jfklganyc wrote:
I always think of MAN NYC as a major route

Yet AA cut it and now UA

Doesn’t anyone want to fly to Britain and not use Heathrow? It is crazy!


AA has cut JFK-MAN twice. They launched it in 1991 alongside the then newly added JFK-LHR frequencies and quickly dropped it less than a year later. It came back in the late 2000s and was axed a few years ago. BA also operated JFK-MAN for years, using mostly a 767-300ER and they too cut it.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:30 am

twicearound wrote:

They have really given DL/VS the USA-MAN market.

BA/AA: PHL-MAN
UA: 0
VS/DL: MCO, ATL, BOS, LAX, JFK


We would need to know what DL/VS gets as TRASM on those MAN routes before we could be confident they are really such a prize. DL typically has finite patience for route development (better termed eating losses) but it's a joint decision and VS may have few better choices.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:31 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Two questions:
1) Can people get off of the plane in Narita?
2) Why did they pick Shanghai as the city they wanted to serve?


Question 1: The answer is no this is a tech stop only for scheduled crew change. Passenger looking to fly to Tokyo should book a flight on UA837 SFO-NRT, also in July UA881 ORD-HND service begins.

Question 2: I think the answer is pretty simple Shanghai is more business centric and Beijing is more touristy. Right now both the US and China still have some form of a travel ban in place restricting entry and banning most if not all tourist from entry. However China does have a few exemptions for international companies doing business in China. First they must apply for the exemption and be granted permission before traveling to China. UA does have some corporate clients here in the US looking to get their people back into China. One of those notable clients is Apple.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:38 am

Dont look for more Polaris 787 conversions in the short run.


From TechOps update:

As you all know, due to the current situation, many projects were brought to a halt. As we wrap our arms around spend to reduce our cash burn, we took a close look at all the projects and related material inventory which we already have in-house. In the case of the 787 Polaris project, after stopping the project and reducing the spend in 2020, we determined that we already have three ship sets of materials in stock. A/C 910, 912 and 913 were in storage and would require heavy checks to continue service, so to avoid the overhaul with the old interior components, the decision was made to implement the Polaris modification during their checks and bring additional aircraft into the new configuration. A/C 910 and 912 were brought out of storage and sent into XMN in early June, and A/C 913 should start sometime later this year. We don't expect any additional Polaris refurbishments in the near term, but will continue to look for opportunities to advance key projects where we can make the business case to justify the additional spend.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:59 am

That makes sense, but for what its worth, A/C 913 exited paint 4/18/20, and looks to have been stored in IAD for a month. A/C 913 surely didn't get a heavy check before exiting IAD 5/18/20 - she's been been flying occasionally since. Maybe it's running out of time and needs to have a heavy check soon.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:05 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Dont look for more Polaris 787 conversions in the short run.


From TechOps update:

As you all know, due to the current situation, many projects were brought to a halt. As we wrap our arms around spend to reduce our cash burn, we took a close look at all the projects and related material inventory which we already have in-house. In the case of the 787 Polaris project, after stopping the project and reducing the spend in 2020, we determined that we already have three ship sets of materials in stock. A/C 910, 912 and 913 were in storage and would require heavy checks to continue service, so to avoid the overhaul with the old interior components, the decision was made to implement the Polaris modification during their checks and bring additional aircraft into the new configuration. A/C 910 and 912 were brought out of storage and sent into XMN in early June, and A/C 913 should start sometime later this year. We don't expect any additional Polaris refurbishments in the near term, but will continue to look for opportunities to advance key projects where we can make the business case to justify the additional spend.



So for the foreseeable future the 788s will have 7 Polaris/PE frames (nose numbers 906 -913) and 5 frames with the old diamond seats (nose numbers 901 - 905).

If UA does not isolate the 5 non-Polaris frames from their Polaris counterparts it means UA would only be able to sell 28 business class seats and we would not be able to monetize premium economy.
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:07 pm

73G:
N7710A - Delivered to UA on 15-June per FAA records. Parked at PAE currently
All three GUM 73Gs look to be back in service, just on a reduced frequency. Only one is in service at a particular time but they rotate the in-service aircraft every couple of days.

N7711N - The next to be transferred to UA is now at PAE but is still registered with WN. If the past timelines are still accurate, we will see ownership transfer in about 4 weeks.

738:
All five GUM 738s look to be back in service, just on a reduced frequency. Not exactly sure of the rotation schedule but the current plan is that they fly for a day or two, take a couple day break and then are back in the air again.

789:
N24980 - Scheduled for first test flight on 20-Jun
N24982 - Working down the final assembly line at CHS
 
David_itl
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:24 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
[AA has cut JFK-MAN twice. They launched it in 1991 alongside the then newly added JFK-LHR frequencies and quickly dropped it less than a year later.



not by my reckoning. The passenger number reported simply do not stack up to what you say. as passenger numbers on MAN-JFK went from 117000 in 1990 to 198000 in 1994. Unless BA decided to inaugurate "Wing Walking Class" as 198000 passenger implies 272 passengers a day each way as we only ever had 767s with 218 seats in them, then AA has to have operated that service until then.

As for UA, I'm sorry but just cut a LHR frequency just don't decide unilaterally that regional Britain cannot support you. After all it was only weeks ago that the talk was off adding a 2nd US departure point to MAN. What they are doing is like the equivalent of BA dropping all routes to the US except JFK. Those in the States would jawdrop at that kind of move and say it's stupid and illogical but as it 's this way round, the gormless will say that for MAN this is fair game as there's no profit to be made there apart from the healthy business class loads UA were reporting themselves
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:19 pm

David_itl wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
[AA has cut JFK-MAN twice. They launched it in 1991 alongside the then newly added JFK-LHR frequencies and quickly dropped it less than a year later.



not by my reckoning. The passenger number reported simply do not stack up to what you say. as passenger numbers on MAN-JFK went from 117000 in 1990 to 198000 in 1994. Unless BA decided to inaugurate "Wing Walking Class" as 198000 passenger implies 272 passengers a day each way as we only ever had 767s with 218 seats in them, then AA has to have operated that service until then.

As for UA, I'm sorry but just cut a LHR frequency just don't decide unilaterally that regional Britain cannot support you. After all it was only weeks ago that the talk was off adding a 2nd US departure point to MAN. What they are doing is like the equivalent of BA dropping all routes to the US except JFK. Those in the States would jawdrop at that kind of move and say it's stupid and illogical but as it 's this way round, the gormless will say that for MAN this is fair game as there's no profit to be made there apart from the healthy business class loads UA were reporting themselves


Not sure I follow your logic here, or perhaps you meant to respond to another post, but I can tell you AA did fly JFK-MAN in 1991 and cut it very quickly. They brought it back sometime post-2010 and it was cut again a few years later. It was flown in 1991 with a 767-200ER and most recently, with a 757.
 
Pinto
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Re: UA pulling EWR routes to Shannon (SNN) and Manchester (MAN)

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:33 pm

David_itl wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
[AA has cut JFK-MAN twice. They launched it in 1991 alongside the then newly added JFK-LHR frequencies and quickly dropped it less than a year later.



not by my reckoning. The passenger number reported simply do not stack up to what you say. as passenger numbers on MAN-JFK went from 117000 in 1990 to 198000 in 1994. Unless BA decided to inaugurate "Wing Walking Class" as 198000 passenger implies 272 passengers a day each way as we only ever had 767s with 218 seats in them, then AA has to have operated that service until then.

As for UA, I'm sorry but just cut a LHR frequency just don't decide unilaterally that regional Britain cannot support you. After all it was only weeks ago that the talk was off adding a 2nd US departure point to MAN. What they are doing is like the equivalent of BA dropping all routes to the US except JFK. Those in the States would jawdrop at that kind of move and say it's stupid and illogical but as it 's this way round, the gormless will say that for MAN this is fair game as there's no profit to be made there apart from the healthy business class loads UA were reporting themselves


LHR is far more valuable than MAN, especially regarding the slots
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:01 pm

With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:15 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?

DL has said they are of offering 55 to 60% domestic schedule cut, which is about 45% of their domestic.
https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... gust-pause

We are so far away from August that nothing has been finalized yet.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:15 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?


Nope...UA hasn't uploaded the schedule past August 2nd yet. I'm interested to see what the response to B6 in EWR will be.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:20 pm

United1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?


Nope...UA hasn't uploaded the schedule past August 2nd yet. I'm interested to see what the response to B6 in EWR will be.


I was surprised there wasn’t anything in this week’s report regarding EWR. UA announced their % of flights in July on May 29th so possibly it will be similar for August.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:29 pm

STT757 wrote:

In terms of passenger traffic EWR was their second largest hub for 2019, it has the most widebody flights of any United hub. It has double the number of employees as Denver.


This info was from another thread but it's probably better addressed in this thread. Whether the "double" figure is accurate or relatively close to accurate, what could possibly require EWR to have so many more employees than DEN? Is it a combination of more mainline ops, additional maintenance staff or just over-staffed relative to DEN?
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:30 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
United1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?


Nope...UA hasn't uploaded the schedule past August 2nd yet. I'm interested to see what the response to B6 in EWR will be.


I was surprised there wasn’t anything in this week’s report regarding EWR. UA announced their % of flights in July on May 29th so possibly it will be similar for August.


Possibly next weekend then.

I'm expecting the international flights to be updated first and the following weekend domestic schedules coming out.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:59 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
STT757 wrote:

In terms of passenger traffic EWR was their second largest hub for 2019, it has the most widebody flights of any United hub. It has double the number of employees as Denver.


This info was from another thread but it's probably better addressed in this thread. Whether the "double" figure is accurate or relatively close to accurate, what could possibly require EWR to have so many more employees than DEN? Is it a combination of more mainline ops, additional maintenance staff or just over-staffed relative to DEN?


Double is accurate...DEN has around 7,000 employees and EWR has 14,200.

EWR/LGA does have about 50 more mainline flights vs DEN, a larger maintenance department but more importantly WAY more widebody/International flights. I think it really just comes down to the number of flight/inflight crew.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:33 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?



DL may be offering 55% of their domestic schedule but seating capacity is still limited to 60%. UA has not released our August schedule yet but if I were to guess I would say to expect around 35% maybe 40% of the domestic schedule to be flown with no seating capacity limits.

Early in this crisis once it became clear that would be no snap back Kirby stated in a virtual town hall he hoped UA would be flying around 40% of our schedule by Thanksgiving. I think if we get to 40% domestically in August UA will probably hold the schedule at that capacity until next year. In the Aviationweek.com article Delta's CEO says they will press the pause button after August to reevaluate demand heading into the fall and winter season, I think UA will do the same. No one really knows what to expect after Labor Day, we all are hoping leisure demand remains strong. If it doesn't airlines like UA and perhaps DL may be forced to pull back a bit before trying to ramp up operations in time for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday travel season.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?



DL may be offering 55% of their domestic schedule but seating capacity is still limited to 60%. UA has not released our August schedule yet but if I were to guess I would say to expect around 35% maybe 40% of the domestic schedule to be flown with no seating capacity limits.

Early in this crisis once it became clear that would be no snap back Kirby stated in a virtual town hall he hoped UA would be flying around 40% of our schedule by Thanksgiving. I think if we get to 40% domestically in August UA will probably hold the schedule at that capacity until next year. In the Aviationweek.com article Delta's CEO says they will press the pause button after August to reevaluate demand heading into the fall and winter season, I think UA will do the same. No one really knows what to expect after Labor Day, we all are hoping leisure demand remains strong. If it doesn't airlines like UA and perhaps DL may be forced to pull back a bit before trying to ramp up operations in time for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday travel season.


Should we at least expect some international routes to return? Maybe some like EWR-BRU/CUN/PVG/etc?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
With DL offering around 55% of their schedule in August do we have any word on United?



DL may be offering 55% of their domestic schedule but seating capacity is still limited to 60%. UA has not released our August schedule yet but if I were to guess I would say to expect around 35% maybe 40% of the domestic schedule to be flown with no seating capacity limits.

Early in this crisis once it became clear that would be no snap back Kirby stated in a virtual town hall he hoped UA would be flying around 40% of our schedule by Thanksgiving. I think if we get to 40% domestically in August UA will probably hold the schedule at that capacity until next year. In the Aviationweek.com article Delta's CEO says they will press the pause button after August to reevaluate demand heading into the fall and winter season, I think UA will do the same. No one really knows what to expect after Labor Day, we all are hoping leisure demand remains strong. If it doesn't airlines like UA and perhaps DL may be forced to pull back a bit before trying to ramp up operations in time for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday travel season.


Should we at least expect some international routes to return? Maybe some like EWR-BRU/CUN/PVG/etc?


I don't know what is coming back in August because UA has posted international schedules that change once the final schedule is released. All I know is in July alone UA will resume at least 24 international routes from ORD, SFO, IAH, IAD, and EWR this includes both short haul and long haul flights. I know UA wants to resume EWR-PVG but right now US carriers are only allowed 2 weekly flights I'm not sure if UA will split our PVG flights between EWR and SFO (I believe DL plans to split their PVG flights between SEA and DTW) or if UA will just operate from SFO only until more frequencies are available. EWR-BRU and CUN will resume at some point but I'm not sure when. Looking at BRU UA decided to resume IAD-BRU in July instead of EWR-BRU I can only assume it is because New York was the epicenter of Coronavirus here in the US. But in my opinion I think with the resumption of IAD-BRU, EWR-BRU may not resume until 2021 just because operating both EWR and IAD-BRU may represent to much capacity at this time.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:11 am

Seems United management occupied with many townhalls. Here is one by the new COO

Here some pertinent commentary.

Q. Many of our Florida locations are seeing demand coming back stronger than most markets. Other carriers are utilizing even widebody aircraft while United is still using E170-175 aircraft and loads in the mid-80% range. Can we look at some markets to upgauge to mainline instead of adding UAX aircraft?
A. It's true that Florida has seen a greater increase in demand than other areas, and in July, plan is to have 3-4 daily frequencies to many Florida market on a mainline aircraft. We also have an existing process in place to upgauge aircraft based on demand to ensure we can respond quickly to increases.

Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.

Q. If we are trying to win passengers back, why are we often the most expensive ticket price compared to Delta, American and Southwest? Customers want safe, clean and reliable travel and, just as important, not to be over charged.
A. We have varied our pricing policy over the last few months, and continue making daily adjustments to stay competitive. Pricing too aggressively to fill aircraft isn't in line with our strategy to conserve cash and emerge stronger than our competitors. We aim to price across the board in a manner that gets us closest to covering our cost.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CWL757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:14 am

Sorry if I missed it but do we know when/if the repainting is gonna speed up? I know it's not a priority at the moment but there'll come a point when the aircraft will be due a repaint anyway. Still waiting (and hoping!) To see the 752 and 764 in the new livery but don't know how likely that is now :(
A319, A320, 738, 743, 744, 752, 772, 788, C150, E175, E190, F70, R22
 
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KVH68
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:41 am

CWL757 wrote:
Sorry if I missed it but do we know when/if the repainting is gonna speed up? I know it's not a priority at the moment but there'll come a point when the aircraft will be due a repaint anyway. Still waiting (and hoping!) To see the 752 and 764 in the new livery but don't know how likely that is now :(


All painting have stopped. United is trying to preserve as much cash as it can.
 
DEN1895
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:55 am

LAXintl wrote:
Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.
[/i]


With this I do wonder if any long term damage may occur with people being forced/choosing a new airline. I know at DEN, for the first time in decades UA is no longer the largest carrier, they have been passed in both departures and passenger count by WN. I know that DEN is an important market for UA and I am surprised to see how little UA activity is there. To give you an idea of how lopsided things are currently, For 6/21&6/22 UA is estimated to have just over 5,000 pax going through TSA. WN on the other hand had nearly 20,000 pax in the same time frame. While UA is more reliant on connections, WN is blowing them away.
 
codc10
Posts: 2911
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:11 am

DEN1895 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.
[/i]


With this I do wonder if any long term damage may occur with people being forced/choosing a new airline. I know at DEN, for the first time in decades UA is no longer the largest carrier, they have been passed in both departures and passenger count by WN. I know that DEN is an important market for UA and I am surprised to see how little UA activity is there. To give you an idea of how lopsided things are currently, For 6/21&6/22 UA is estimated to have just over 5,000 pax going through TSA. WN on the other hand had nearly 20,000 pax in the same time frame. While UA is more reliant on connections, WN is blowing them away.


I would surmise the flying population today is substantially more:

- discretionary;
- price-conscious;
- leisure-oriented; and
- brand agnostic

than usual. Virtually all business travel has ceased. Right now, on good days, demand is off by around 80% but improving steadily. This is far from a normal market and while I applaud airlines like AA and WN for being bullish on a recovery, I don't think the traveling public today is predictive of any future demand patterns, nor do I think UA or DL gains much by rushing excess capacity back to the market simply because competitors are doing so. We are a long way away from what will even be the "new normal", to use a rather hackneyed expression.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:07 am

CWL757 wrote:
Sorry if I missed it but do we know when/if the repainting is gonna speed up? I know it's not a priority at the moment but there'll come a point when the aircraft will be due a repaint anyway. Still waiting (and hoping!) To see the 752 and 764 in the new livery but don't know how likely that is now :(


United isn’t even doing Heavy maintenance they are just parking the aircraft. The only reason the 3 787s went in for Polaris this month is because they already had everything paid for.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:13 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.
[/i]


With this I do wonder if any long term damage may occur with people being forced/choosing a new airline. I know at DEN, for the first time in decades UA is no longer the largest carrier, they have been passed in both departures and passenger count by WN. I know that DEN is an important market for UA and I am surprised to see how little UA activity is there. To give you an idea of how lopsided things are currently, For 6/21&6/22 UA is estimated to have just over 5,000 pax going through TSA. WN on the other hand had nearly 20,000 pax in the same time frame. While UA is more reliant on connections, WN is blowing them away.



When the July schedule goes into effect I believe UA will operate around 212 daily departures out of DEN. What I've noticed is for July WN has substantially raised their prices vs what they were charging in May and June. Depending on where you are going WN's wanna get away fares (their cheapest fares) out of DEN are up. DEN-MCO nonstop $394 dollars each way, DEN-FLL nonstop $248 dollars each way DEN-AUS nonstop $439 dollars, DEN-LAS nonstop $118 dollars each way and we can keep going. If we look back at May and June fares WN pricing for the same nonstops was much closer to that of F9 and NK around $39-$69 dollars. Hell out of ORD this month myself, my husband and four of our friends flew NK ORD-FLL nonstop for $15 dollars each way plus $35 dollars for our carry-on bag, all total we each paid $100 dollars to fly roundtrip ORD-FLL, UA can't compete at those prices. But now heading into July even WN MDW-FLL is now charging $213 dollars wanna get away fare for a nonstop flight. If you choose to make a stop and turn your journey into a 6 hour travel time WN can get you to FLL for $103 dollars, however at $213 dollars each way for a nonstop UA can compete. UA's July schedule calls for over 250 daily departures fro ORD , DEN I believe will be around 212 daily departures and IAH will over 200 daily departures. EWR, IAD and SFO will all be over 100 daily departures while LAX will still be just shy of 50 daily departures.

So we are starting to see ticket prices rise from their rock bottom fares which should provide UA opportunities in July and August.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:28 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
United isn’t even doing Heavy maintenance they are just parking the aircraft. The only reason the 3 787s went in for Polaris this month is because they already had everything paid for.


Your statement is not entirely true, UA is still performing heavy maintenance. N26910, N26912 and N30913 were all schedule for heavy maintenance in XMN, since these aircraft were already schedule for heavy maintenance and UA already had the Polaris/PE seats at XMN the decision was made to do both. Once those 787 leave XMN others will take their place but but going forward they will reenter service without Polaris/PE because UA has suspended Polaris/PE installations. There are some aircraft that are in long term storage that UA is deferring heavy maintenance on at this time, but to make a blanket statement UA is not doing heavy maintenance is not true. We are still doing heavy maintenance on aircraft that remain in service and on aircraft that UA expects to return to service at some point later this year. This is not bankruptcy UA where we deferred, deferred, deferred a lot of maintenance items until a deferral was no longer available, we all remember what happened when those chickens came home to roost. We are still paying for those mistakes just look at how our 763s have limped on ever since. I can tell assure you that disastrous policy is not in effect today.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8499
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:38 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.
[/i]


With this I do wonder if any long term damage may occur with people being forced/choosing a new airline. I know at DEN, for the first time in decades UA is no longer the largest carrier, they have been passed in both departures and passenger count by WN. I know that DEN is an important market for UA and I am surprised to see how little UA activity is there. To give you an idea of how lopsided things are currently, For 6/21&6/22 UA is estimated to have just over 5,000 pax going through TSA. WN on the other hand had nearly 20,000 pax in the same time frame. While UA is more reliant on connections, WN is blowing them away.


DEN is a large and important market for UA but it's not as if DEN makes up a large fraction of UA flights, seats, or seat-miles. UA, like AA and DL, is broadly distributed over multiple hubs.

As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).

I do not believe that UA, DL, AC, BA, LH (and IATA) are wrong when they say they each have 10k+ too many employees and expect a multi year recovery. Like the UA notes said: it is a marathon.
 
codc10
Posts: 2911
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).


I agree with this 100%, but will reserve judgment until 3Q for AA and the rest of the industry, since the 2Q numbers will be atrocious across the board. I suspect carriers will be eager to parcel out numbers for the month of June to show progress, but April/May were the worst months for commercial aviation since the beginning of the industry, and the monumental, unprecedented quarterly losses will be the show-stoppers.

This is going to be a rough earnings week...
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24812
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:49 pm

MileagePlus Holdings seeks to issue $3.0bil in secured notes due 2027.

SEC filing
https://ir.united.com/node/23821/html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:24 pm

jayunited wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
United isn’t even doing Heavy maintenance they are just parking the aircraft. The only reason the 3 787s went in for Polaris this month is because they already had everything paid for.


Your statement is not entirely true, UA is still performing heavy maintenance. N26910, N26912 and N30913 were all schedule for heavy maintenance in XMN, since these aircraft were already schedule for heavy maintenance and UA already had the Polaris/PE seats at XMN the decision was made to do both. Once those 787 leave XMN others will take their place but but going forward they will reenter service without Polaris/PE because UA has suspended Polaris/PE installations. There are some aircraft that are in long term storage that UA is deferring heavy maintenance on at this time, but to make a blanket statement UA is not doing heavy maintenance is not true. We are still doing heavy maintenance on aircraft that remain in service and on aircraft that UA expects to return to service at some point later this year. This is not bankruptcy UA where we deferred, deferred, deferred a lot of maintenance items until a deferral was no longer available, we all remember what happened when those chickens came home to roost. We are still paying for those mistakes just look at how our 763s have limped on ever since. I can tell assure you that disastrous policy is not in effect today.


Good news thanks Jay, and I appreciate the correction. Our fleet was garbage after Tilton......I’d hate to see that happen to the fleet.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 5435
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:33 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DEN1895 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.
[/i]


With this I do wonder if any long term damage may occur with people being forced/choosing a new airline. I know at DEN, for the first time in decades UA is no longer the largest carrier, they have been passed in both departures and passenger count by WN. I know that DEN is an important market for UA and I am surprised to see how little UA activity is there. To give you an idea of how lopsided things are currently, For 6/21&6/22 UA is estimated to have just over 5,000 pax going through TSA. WN on the other hand had nearly 20,000 pax in the same time frame. While UA is more reliant on connections, WN is blowing them away.


DEN is a large and important market for UA but it's not as if DEN makes up a large fraction of UA flights, seats, or seat-miles. UA, like AA and DL, is broadly distributed over multiple hubs.

As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).

I do not believe that UA, DL, AC, BA, LH (and IATA) are wrong when they say they each have 10k+ too many employees and expect a multi year recovery. Like the UA notes said: it is a marathon.


You are glossing over the network differences between each airline, the network demand recovery is what is shaping capacity.

AC, BA, & LH are all significantly more international reliant than UA, DL, or WN & AA so they aren't even in the same category (let alone a completely different geography with different demand environments).

UA is more international than the rest of the US4, I'd assume UA has the least % of revenue coming from leisure travelers, it has no Southeast hub, & their hubs are all in the most demand suppressed areas, it should be clear why they would run the least amount of capacity out of the US4. UA's EWR, SFO, ORD, DEN, LAX, & maybe even IAD aren't built for connections to Southeast leisure destinations, which is where demand is right now. They don't have a CLT or ATL, so they have no way of capitalizing on any of the current traffic demand.(outside of DEN-Mountain West & some IAH-Southeast)

You quote Delta as being in a similar capacity position as UA, but in reality that isn't really true. While overall capacity is lower than AA, they are considerably building up ATL, & to a lesser extent DTW, SLC, & MSP while their other focus cities and coastal hubs remain smaller, which is bringing down overall capacity.

Q2 TRASM isn't going to tell you much, you will need June (& July) data to actually take into account increased capacity, so far DL & AA have been able to significantly slow cash burn with their increased schedules. WN, DL, are at 50% LFs right now (with LF restrictions in place), AA is likely in the 60s with DFW & CLT in the 70s, so it isn't like these planes are going out empty.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:39 pm

LAXintl wrote:
MileagePlus Holdings seeks to issue $3.0bil in secured notes due 2027.

SEC filing
https://ir.united.com/node/23821/html



I hope the recovery for UA is robust because our debt continue to rise during this crisis. I completely understand at this point in time we absolutely need the liquidity but at some point we are going to have to pay all of this money back. While passenger traffic may fully recover in 2-4 years it is becoming crystal clear it will be years before UA fully recovers financially.
 
BusBlitz
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United 753 charter question

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:10 pm

Today, I was randomly looking on Flightradar as one does and noticed an odd 753 flight. It was a RIV-DEN-ADW flight. Is United operating charters right now, or what is it?
 
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KVH68
Posts: 265
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:37 pm

Does anyone know how many employees have taken the voluntary separation package so far (VSP/VSP2)? I heard 1,300 M&A. What about the other work groups such as TechOps, Ramp, Customer Service,...
 
MO11
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: United 753 charter question

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:38 pm

BusBlitz wrote:
Today, I was randomly looking on Flightradar as one does and noticed an odd 753 flight. It was a RIV-DEN-ADW flight. Is United operating charters right now, or what is it?


Yes, United operates charters. I see Southwest and Allegiant operating military charters into RIV today as well.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:41 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Seems United management occupied with many townhalls. Here is one by the new COO

Here some pertinent commentary.

Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.


I don't expect the COO to admit anything different, but I have to push back against the statement about data. When competitors are operating schedules 2-3 times larger than you are, you're simply not getting the same amount of data as they are. They are getting a different set of data, and most importantly it's more robust and detailed than yours. I think the second part is accurate in that strategies are different, but at this point I'd say UA picked the wrong recovery strategy. Even in a marathon you need to run fast immediately when the gun sounds. You can't walk your way to victory.

Midwestindy wrote:
You are glossing over the network differences between each airline, the network demand recovery is what is shaping capacity.

AC, BA, & LH are all significantly more international reliant than UA, DL, or WN & AA so they aren't even in the same category (let alone a completely different geography with different demand environments).

UA is more international than the rest of the US4, I'd assume UA has the least % of revenue coming from leisure travelers, it has no Southeast hub, & their hubs are all in the most demand suppressed areas, it should be clear why they would run the least amount of capacity out of the US4. UA's EWR, SFO, ORD, DEN, LAX, & maybe even IAD aren't built for connections to Southeast leisure destinations, which is where demand is right now. They don't have a CLT or ATL, so they have no way of capitalizing on any of the current traffic demand.(outside of DEN-Mountain West & some IAH-Southeast)


I don't buy it. Prior networks mean almost nothing. Capacity is so much lower and demand is so shaken that any carrier could step up and meet the meager demand wherever it's needed. Previously having a larger international ratio isn't why UA is flying a fraction of their already too-small domestic fleet. Previously having a larger international ratio isn't why AA is larger at ORD and basically everywhere else domestically. Allegedly being in demand-suppressed areas isn't why WN is larger at DEN and basically everywhere else domestically. Not having a southeast hub (or allegedly being in demand-suppressed areas) isn't why IAH is a ghost town compared to DFW. This boils down to the decisions made in recovering. UA and DL are in a tough spot now by being the last movers. When they increase capacity, there's much less meat left on the bone industry-wide. Sure, they can shift some of that demand away from AA and WN and harm them too, but the point is that UA and DL aren't getting much advantage to a larger schedule if that capacity ends up as excess. And then everyone loses. It has disincentivized UA and DL from growing. And AA and WN love it, as they have the only chances to be the early clear winners. Either they win, or everyone doesn't. Now I didn't see that issue coming right away stemming from trying to come back last, but I'm also not getting paid to see it.

MIflyer12 wrote:
As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).


Every carrier is desperate for cash. Implying that some carriers are and some aren't is quite the statement when they all are racking up debt to stay alive. Throw debt out the window. What matters right now is cash, and who can turn their operations cash-positive the fastest and strongest. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If AA's running a larger schedule for more cash, then that's the strategy that UA should be taking as well. But clearly there was a difference in opinion, and now UA and DL are in a tougher spot to grow operations to stem cash-loss.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:53 pm

jayunited wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
MileagePlus Holdings seeks to issue $3.0bil in secured notes due 2027.

SEC filing
https://ir.united.com/node/23821/html



I hope the recovery for UA is robust because our debt continue to rise during this crisis. I completely understand at this point in time we absolutely need the liquidity but at some point we are going to have to pay all of this money back. While passenger traffic may fully recover in 2-4 years it is becoming crystal clear it will be years before UA fully recovers financially.


Unfortunately, this statement is true not just for United, but for MANY businesses in the US.
Priority 1 for UA is stop burning cash and survive
Priority 2 build capacity in the markets that can support them while staying with priority 1.
Priority 3, when the economy recovers, pay down debt and hoard cash
Priority 90190202 buy back stock........
 
KFTG
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: United 753 charter question

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:09 am

Obviously a flight landing at Andrews is a military charter.

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