Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jayunited
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:39 am

MSPNWA wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Seems United management occupied with many townhalls. Here is one by the new COO

Here some pertinent commentary.

Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.


I don't expect the COO to admit anything different, but I have to push back against the statement about data. When competitors are operating schedules 2-3 times larger than you are, you're simply not getting the same amount of data as they are. They are getting a different set of data, and most importantly it's more robust and detailed than yours. I think the second part is accurate in that strategies are different, but at this point I'd say UA picked the wrong recovery strategy. Even in a marathon you need to run fast immediately when the gun sounds. You can't walk your way to victory.

Every carrier is desperate for cash. Implying that some carriers are and some aren't is quite the statement when they all are racking up debt to stay alive. Throw debt out the window. What matters right now is cash, and who can turn their operations cash-positive the fastest and strongest. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If AA's running a larger schedule for more cash, then that's the strategy that UA should be taking as well. But clearly there was a difference in opinion, and now UA and DL are in a tougher spot to grow operations to stem cash-loss.


In a few weeks time we will all see if UA's ultra conservative Q2 strategy paid off or if UA should have swung for the fences like AA. Personally I think UA made the right decision flying only 10% of the schedule in May and June. However I could be wrong and honestly my position has changed early on I wanted UA to be more aggressive it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I change my position and thought UA made the right decision. Kirby has admitted UA could have flown more of the schedule like AA has done but at what cost. An airline like UA is at disadvantage when airlines like NK and F9 are in the drivers seat in terms of pricing power. WN decided early on to match most F9 and NK's fares which WN can do because they have lower cost. WN has just started rising their fares heading into July as demand continues to grow. AA was not afraid to get on the fight for every leisure passengers and their passenger numbers prove it. AA in June carried 3 times more passengers than UA there is no arguing those facts. The questions many people are looking to have answered in a few weeks is this: 1) Did UA loose money by hold firm at 10% capacity for the month of June even though it was clear demand was rising? or question 2) Did AA loose money by chasing every leisure traveler at bottom of the barrel fares?

UA in June flew 10% of our schedule Kirby stated he expects Q2 revenue to be down somewhere around 92%. I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but I think in June AA flew around 30%-35% of their schedule. If there revenue remains down 90% or more in Q2 I wonder how many people would still believe AA made the right choice by going head to head with the NK, F9, and WN? The only way we all will know which airline made the right decision in Q2 is by patiently waiting for each airlines Q2 report.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1121
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:01 am

jayunited wrote:
The only way we all will know which airline made the right decision in Q2 is by patiently waiting for each airlines Q2 report.


I am not sure looking at Q2 numbers would really prove which was better.

If United(or Delta for that matter) indeed had offered a much more aggressive schedule which means many more seats chasing a small number of customers, it could just mean an even more disastrous result, everyone including AA.

Pricing is not the primary driver of travel today, so demand is not elastic as it normally would be in defining the customer market size. Ultimately could just mean be even more seats chasing about the same number of passengers at rather crappy yields.

What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
tphuang
Posts: 5445
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:34 am

janders wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The only way we all will know which airline made the right decision in Q2 is by patiently waiting for each airlines Q2 report.


I am not sure looking at Q2 numbers would really prove which was better.

If United(or Delta for that matter) indeed had offered a much more aggressive schedule which means many more seats chasing a small number of customers, it could just mean an even more disastrous result, everyone including AA.

Pricing is not the primary driver of travel today, so demand is not elastic as it normally would be in defining the customer market size. Ultimately could just mean be even more seats chasing about the same number of passengers at rather crappy yields.

What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


I agree. I don't think Q2 results will tell us who made the right decision here. At this point, it seems that UA and DL has burned a lot less cash than AA but has lost out market share. It's hard to say whether or not that's permanent loss of some ff. I've seen some praises of AA online. And part of AA's "success" has been the much quicker demand recovery in Texas, Arizona and Florida. They've been able to advertise a much larger schedule and run 25% schedule for June. So that has obviously helped their cash burn.

Things I think will be different in July/August. All ULCCs have brought a lot of capacity. Same with WN, B6 and AS. And legacies are doubling capacity also. At the same time, COVID infection is accelerating in those 3 states. We could very well see another crash in those markets with a lot of refund in July/August. And then you will have AA canceling last minute and burning cash from both operating more flights and cash refunds. You'd have LCCs flying empty planes to Florida. And Kirby could end up looking like a savant.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:02 am

Q2 and subsequent quarter numbers are going to be very noisy, so doubt they provide much guidance as to how the operations is really doing.
There will be tons of charges be it fleet writedown, employee severance cost, more rapid depreciation, mark to market charges etc. Since a portion will have real impact on the operating ledger Its going to be quite hard to peel back the onion imo to make apples vs apples comparison.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ordpark
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: United 753 charter question

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:21 am

And BusBlitz...Welcome to Airliners!
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: United 753 charter question

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:50 am

We have been doing quite a number of charters lately. With the slack in the schedule it makes it much more feasible and adds a fair bit of revenue at a time when it’s hard to come by.

I’ve heard the other fleets have been the pretty busy as well but I know firsthand there have been 756 charters popping up almost weekly recently.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:21 pm

janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:50 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.


Many companies are banning travel for the remainder of the year - especially International travel. Domestic travel is limited to absolutely essential travel only and most are still requiring multi-level approvals before travel is permitted (many times up to the COO/CFO level). Most of those that are flying right now are one-off leisure trips. A few flights on a different carrier is not going to to influence most loyal travelers to permanently jump ship. And those that truly care about loyalty/mileage accrual can still get on board a UA flight to most places.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:14 pm

LHUSA wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.


Many companies are banning travel for the remainder of the year - especially International travel. Domestic travel is limited to absolutely essential travel only and most are still requiring multi-level approvals before travel is permitted (many times up to the COO/CFO level). Most of those that are flying right now are one-off leisure trips. A few flights on a different carrier is not going to to influence most loyal travelers to permanently jump ship. And those that truly care about loyalty/mileage accrual can still get on board a UA flight to most places.


Once the other carriers have the passengers onboard AND have their information, it will be easier to recruit those passengers (status match, etc.).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:01 am

FlyHossD wrote:
janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.


For airlines I hope you are correct, but from my company nothing big is changing anytime soon. I have stated this previously, but for business travel to begin companies need to be back in the office and wanting to have 3rd parties in their offices.

My company is on a multi-stage office opening, we are on stage 1, having 3rd parties are on an exceptional basis until stage 3, which they hope to happen in the fall. None of that sounds very hopeful for business travel.
I think there is always a subset of business travel that will happen, but really we need to get 90% back in the air not the 20%.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5445
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:22 am

Looks like we are not going to be far away from stay at home orders gettting enacted in Texas and possibly other states. At this point, I would say UA's conservative planning may come out looking the best in July.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 am

FlyHossD wrote:
But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.

FlyHossD wrote:
Once the other carriers have the passengers onboard AND have their information, it will be easier to recruit those passengers (status match, etc.).


I would not worry about it much. More important worry is the daily cash bleed. A billion a month is not sustainable, so that needs to be the focus imo.

Also bulk of people flying today are bottom yield, leisure travelers. There is hardly any corporate travel to speak of today.

And when corp travel does return, the industry will play musical chairs anyhow as airlines emerge smaller and network changes will drive customers to shift naturally based on their own travel needs.

And UA is actively seeking feedback from corp customers to anticipate their future route needs and time frames for returning to the skies.
https://skift.com/2020/06/23/how-united ... ld-routes/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:53 am

tphuang wrote:
Looks like we are not going to be far away from stay at home orders gettting enacted in Texas and possibly other states. At this point, I would say UA's conservative planning may come out looking the best in July.


The odds of a stay at home order aren’t high, though masks will probably be mandatory.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Chuska
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:10 pm

According to the Farmington Daily Times, SkyWest, operating as United Express, has signed a two year contract with the city of Farmington to return commercial service to the Four Corners Regional Airport. Service is planned to begin on October 15, 2020 with one daily flight to Denver using a CRJ-200. This will be a revenue guarantee with funds coming from an FAA grant and several other sources. SkyWest has also made provisions to compensate for the current slump in traffic. The Four Corners Regional Airport has recently completed runway upgrades now allowing for the operation of regional jets. FMN had previously been served with United Express flights to Denver from 1986 through 2002 by Aspen Airways, Mesa Airlines, and Great Lakes Aviation. During its heyday in the 1990's, FMN also saw Continental Express service to Denver, American Eagle to DFW and LAX, and America West Express, later US Airways Express, to PHX and LAS. Mesa Air also had an impressive independent operation with hourly flights to ABQ. As regional jets replaced turboprops in the 2000's, FMN saw its service fade away. Great Lakes was the final carrier to serve FMN operating under their own brand until the carrier shut down over two years ago.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19278
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:27 pm

I had a business trip to Farmington some years ago. I flew to Phoenix by BA and then a Great Lakes Be-1900 to Farmington. I then had a quick weekend break in Phoenix so another two legs on Great Lakes. My biggest surprise was landing at Farmington because I thought we were somewhat high when the crew called out short final, before I realised the airport is on top of a mesa.

BTW, Farmington was the first place I visited in America where it seemed nearly everyone was either a Native American or a cowboy!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
FRNT787
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:04 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:35 pm

That's good for FMN. I used the Great Lakes Beech 1900 PRC-FMN-DEN service a couple times to route on to Frontier flying to DFW. They were fun flights and I was always surprised when they would add fuel on at FMN. Getting out on the busy Great Lakes ramp at DEN was interesting as well.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:29 pm

Good for FMN. Driving from Texas to Idaho in 2018, I went to FMN and looked at terminal and was trying to envision when Frontier I flew Convairs into there, and Mesa's beginnings.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
Chuska
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:27 pm

Yes, Frontier had a small hub at FMN serving the four corners states in the 1950's and 1960's and for a couple years in the early 80's, they had upgraded to 737's but they were so weight restricted that they had to stop in DRO for fuel. After FL collapsed, Aspen took over the DEN service and even flew BAe-146's on occasion. Thanks so much to SkyWest for bringing service back to abandoned cities.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8475
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:00 pm

Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3134
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.


I used to live right near CEZ, so I know the area pretty well. I think FMN has a large enough catchment area that it can support a daily CRJ-200. There is a lot of natural gas exploration, although other than that the area is pretty poor. I don't think it's much different of a situation than DIK supporting 2x/day ERJs at a time when ISN had 3x to DEN and 3x to MSP. I also remember a time when Mesa flew CRJ-900s into FMN.

Also, yes that drive to DRO is a lure, which is about 70 minutes to DRO airport by the way, but we're really only talking about 1x CRJ-200 that is subsidized. The Farmington/Aztec/Bloomfield area does have its own decently-sized population, definitely no smaller than many other cities where SkyWest provides at-risk service.

Just my two cents. I wish them success either way.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Chuska
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:00 pm

Last time I was at DRO I noticed at least half of the cars in the parking lot had NM plates, appears that many people are driving to DRO and it will be great to see FMN keep their own traffic. The news article did mention that if the flight does do well, a second flight will be added. I don't know why UA would add an eighth flight on the DRO-DEN route on a day like Tuesday, normally they run six or seven on the route. That was BC (before covid) so I doubt they'll be even six flights on DRO-DEN this October.
 
DLASFlyer
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.


Pretty amazing UA can support 8x daily DEN-DRO but DL doesn’t even do 1x SLC-DRO.
 
N212R
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 pm

Farmington has a significant LDS population pushing the growth...must expand the Empire.

You will note there is also a Farmington, "suburb" of SLC.
 
durangomac
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:18 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.


I have no idea what they are banking on. In March there was an article in the Farmington Times about how the restrictions from pandemic on the area where just making the death of Farmington much faster because the oil and gas industry is pulling out of the area and the power plant and coal industry are also pulling out. I grew up in Durango and if all those issues with the oil & gas are true then Farmington is going to be a much smaller city than when I lived in the area.

So it's about 1 hour and some change to drive the DRO and then ABQ is about 2 hours. I honestly don't see FNM being able to attract enough traffic to keep the flights beyond 2 years, I could be wrong but I don't see the traffic happening.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:48 pm

United ups its MileagePlus debt offering. Lets see what it closes at next week.

nited Airlines, Inc. ("United") announced the pricing and upsize of the previously announced private offering by Mileage Plus Holdings, LLC, a direct wholly-owned subsidiary of United that operates the MileagePlus program ("MPH"), and Mileage Plus Intellectual Property Assets, Ltd., an indirect wholly-owned subsidiary of MPH ("MIPA" and, together with MPH, the "MileagePlus Subsidiaries"). An aggregate of $3.8 billion in principal amount of 6.50% senior secured notes due 2027 (the "Notes") is expected to be issued on July 2, 2020, subject to customary closing conditions. Concurrently with the issuance of the Notes, United expects the MileagePlus Subsidiaries to enter into a credit agreement providing for a term loan facility ("Term Loan Facility") for an aggregate of $3.0 billion, also subject to customary closing conditions. The Notes and the Term Loan Facility, in a total aggregate amount of $6.8 billion, replace the previously announced committed term loan facility.

https://hub.united.com/2020-06-23-unite ... 42190.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:25 am

Easy way for United to own market share dominance.....bring back ice onboard.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:02 pm

SFO-PVG resumes July 8.

WeSa
UA857 SFO-PVG 1100-1745+1

ThSu
UA858 PVG-SFO 2140-2055

https://hub.united.com/2020-06-26-unite ... 70881.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jayunited
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:03 pm

LAXintl wrote:
SFO-PVG resumes July 8.

WeSa
UA857 SFO-PVG 1100-1745+1

ThSu
UA858 PVG-SFO 2140-2055

https://hub.united.com/2020-06-26-unite ... 70881.html



The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.
 
amtravels
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:54 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:14 am

I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:28 am

amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


Leaving the middle seat open is just optics anyway. If you’re willing to fly, you’re ok with the risks. United already left it up to customer choice and fewer than 3% of passengers on a 70%+ LF flight opted to change/cancel even when notified 24 hours in advance.
 
airlineaddict
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:33 am

jayunited wrote:
The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.


Any background as to why ICN was chosen (e.g., previous rights with ability to sell tags, landing fee costs, etc)?
 
factsonly
Posts: 2993
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:34 am

Interesting one off flight by B77W N214U.

- 25 Jun 2020 SFO - HOP UA2585 B77W N214U
- 25 Jun 2020 HOP - NUE UA2576 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 NUE - GRK UA2577 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 GRK - SFO UA2588 B77W N214U

Trump calling this troops home??

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2140u
 
jayunited
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:05 pm

amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:25 pm

jayunited wrote:
amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.


I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:20 pm

factsonly wrote:
Interesting one off flight by B77W N214U.

- 25 Jun 2020 SFO - HOP UA2585 B77W N214U
- 25 Jun 2020 HOP - NUE UA2576 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 NUE - GRK UA2577 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 GRK - SFO UA2588 B77W N214U

Trump calling this troops home??

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2140u

I don't know that they're necessarily coming home. There was a UA 77W a couple of weeks ago headed over from POB.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:33 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
jayunited wrote:
amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.


I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.


Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?
 
alpine1989
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:26 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Interesting one off flight by B77W N214U.

- 25 Jun 2020 SFO - HOP UA2585 B77W N214U
- 25 Jun 2020 HOP - NUE UA2576 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 NUE - GRK UA2577 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 GRK - SFO UA2588 B77W N214U

Trump calling this troops home??

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2140u

I don't know that they're necessarily coming home. There was a UA 77W a couple of weeks ago headed over from POB.


Regular troop rotations. United is a regular DOD charter operator.
 
theasianguy
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:31 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:25 pm

airlineaddict wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.


Any background as to why ICN was chosen (e.g., previous rights with ability to sell tags, landing fee costs, etc)?


Here's why I think UA ended up choosing ICN. NRT has a nighttime curfew from 00:30-5:00. United must ensure that crew do not overnight at PVG, so the return PVG-SFO flight must depart the same evening. It can't remain overnight until its usual departure time at 12 noon the next day. Given UA 858's departure time at 21:40, it would arrive at NRT at 1:40, which is past curfew. ICN does not have a night curfew, so a midnight crew stop is possible.

UA is selling SFO-PVG through with no option for tags. Given how few US-China flights there are currently, I wouldn't be surprised if it were already sold out through the end of summer.
 
panamair
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm

LHUSA wrote:
amtravels wrote:
Leaving the middle seat open is just optics anyway. If you’re willing to fly, you’re ok with the risks..


Sorry but I don’t agree. Every single one of these measures by itself is not a 100% solution to avoid catching the virus; however, they all help towards reducing the risk of infection and/or risk of getting a heavy viral load in case infection happens. It’s simply common sense that if there is an infected pax close by, you are less likely to get infected or get a bigger viral load if the person is one seat away from you versus being right next to you...

I personally have been buying tickets on Delta and JetBlue instead of AA or UA because I am pretty much guaranteed an empty seat next to me...
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:14 pm

panamair wrote:
LHUSA wrote:
amtravels wrote:
Leaving the middle seat open is just optics anyway. If you’re willing to fly, you’re ok with the risks..


Sorry but I don’t agree. Every single one of these measures by itself is not a 100% solution to avoid catching the virus; however, they all help towards reducing the risk of infection and/or risk of getting a heavy viral load in case infection happens. It’s simply common sense that if there is an infected pax close by, you are less likely to get infected or get a bigger viral load if the person is one seat away from you versus being right next to you...

I personally have been buying tickets on Delta and JetBlue instead of AA or UA because I am pretty much guaranteed an empty seat next to me...


Sorry but that 18 inches isn’t going to do anything. It’s science.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5445
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:21 pm

JMO on this. blocking middle seat doesn't solve a lot of problems, but it will make things safer. Wear a mask + seat in front of you and behind you means you most likely can't infect the guys in front or behind you through droplet. So then, it's about the people to the left and right. If you are in the middle and turn left or right, there really isn't anything aside from mask keeping your droplet from reaching the people on my side. And If I'm looking forward, there will still be droplet going to the side, although weaker. With middle seat blocked and mask on, that should reduce the amount of viral droplet that can reach the person 1 seat away. Or at least reduces the persistent viral droplet reaching someone more than 1 seat away.

Also it isn't just 18 inch. It's from middle of window seat to middle of aisle seat. So about 2 seat width + 2 hand rails -> probably 40 inches vs 1 seat width + 1 handrail -> 20 inches otherwise.

I will take my chances that not enough of viral droplet coming out of side of nose can reach 3 and half feet away vs under 2 feet away.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:02 am

I'm guessing the August schedule update gets released tonight ? (Saturday)
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1411
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:01 am

sldispatcher wrote:
I'm guessing the August schedule update gets released tonight ? (Saturday)


UA usually releases schedules Saturday mornings, so I would guess next Saturday at this point, but sometimes they break off of that pattern
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:20 am

UAX Update:

E175SC:
N606UX now flying Skywest
N612UX now flying Skywest

E170:
N641RW returned to flying
N645RW returned to flying
N858RW returned to flying

E145:
N14542 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N12564 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N15572 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N14573 exited Fleet, stored at IGM

CR550:
Correction: N504GJ is flying, N506GJ is parked at STL
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:37 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
jayunited wrote:

There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.


I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.


Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?


Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.


Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?


Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t


Ah I see.....so we scream social distancing and how dare they don’t until it becomes inconvienent? Welcome the massive hypocrisy of the human race.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:55 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?


Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t


Ah I see.....so we scream social distancing and how dare they don’t until it becomes inconvienent? Welcome the massive hypocrisy of the human race.


Not really. One can get the best of both worlds by flying WN or DL. Poor choice on United’s side IMO.
 
User avatar
kordcj
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:23 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t


Ah I see.....so we scream social distancing and how dare they don’t until it becomes inconvienent? Welcome the massive hypocrisy of the human race.


Not really. One can get the best of both worlds by flying WN or DL. Poor choice on United’s side IMO.


From what I understand UA opted to allow passengers to choose to opt out a flight where the middle seat could be occupied instead of not selling middle seats. That way those who care about their health risks still had a choice. It makes sense, if all the airlines choose to block middle seats, who’s the first mover to bring them back? Imagine the headline: United bringing back dreaded middle seat. Keeping it as an option already avoids the negative press. Besides selling a plane at 66% capacity isn’t profitable unless the window and aisle seats are splitting the cost of the empty middle seat, which most likely isn’t the case for any carrier.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
jagraham
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:28 pm

theasianguy wrote:
airlineaddict wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.


Any background as to why ICN was chosen (e.g., previous rights with ability to sell tags, landing fee costs, etc)?


Here's why I think UA ended up choosing ICN. NRT has a nighttime curfew from 00:30-5:00. United must ensure that crew do not overnight at PVG, so the return PVG-SFO flight must depart the same evening. It can't remain overnight until its usual departure time at 12 noon the next day. Given UA 858's departure time at 21:40, it would arrive at NRT at 1:40, which is past curfew. ICN does not have a night curfew, so a midnight crew stop is possible.

UA is selling SFO-PVG through with no option for tags. Given how few US-China flights there are currently, I wouldn't be surprised if it were already sold out through the end of summer.


Forgot about the NRT curfew. Good point.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:36 am

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos