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codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).


I agree with this 100%, but will reserve judgment until 3Q for AA and the rest of the industry, since the 2Q numbers will be atrocious across the board. I suspect carriers will be eager to parcel out numbers for the month of June to show progress, but April/May were the worst months for commercial aviation since the beginning of the industry, and the monumental, unprecedented quarterly losses will be the show-stoppers.

This is going to be a rough earnings week...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:49 pm

MileagePlus Holdings seeks to issue $3.0bil in secured notes due 2027.

SEC filing
https://ir.united.com/node/23821/html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:24 pm

jayunited wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
United isn’t even doing Heavy maintenance they are just parking the aircraft. The only reason the 3 787s went in for Polaris this month is because they already had everything paid for.


Your statement is not entirely true, UA is still performing heavy maintenance. N26910, N26912 and N30913 were all schedule for heavy maintenance in XMN, since these aircraft were already schedule for heavy maintenance and UA already had the Polaris/PE seats at XMN the decision was made to do both. Once those 787 leave XMN others will take their place but but going forward they will reenter service without Polaris/PE because UA has suspended Polaris/PE installations. There are some aircraft that are in long term storage that UA is deferring heavy maintenance on at this time, but to make a blanket statement UA is not doing heavy maintenance is not true. We are still doing heavy maintenance on aircraft that remain in service and on aircraft that UA expects to return to service at some point later this year. This is not bankruptcy UA where we deferred, deferred, deferred a lot of maintenance items until a deferral was no longer available, we all remember what happened when those chickens came home to roost. We are still paying for those mistakes just look at how our 763s have limped on ever since. I can tell assure you that disastrous policy is not in effect today.


Good news thanks Jay, and I appreciate the correction. Our fleet was garbage after Tilton......I’d hate to see that happen to the fleet.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:33 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DEN1895 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.
[/i]


With this I do wonder if any long term damage may occur with people being forced/choosing a new airline. I know at DEN, for the first time in decades UA is no longer the largest carrier, they have been passed in both departures and passenger count by WN. I know that DEN is an important market for UA and I am surprised to see how little UA activity is there. To give you an idea of how lopsided things are currently, For 6/21&6/22 UA is estimated to have just over 5,000 pax going through TSA. WN on the other hand had nearly 20,000 pax in the same time frame. While UA is more reliant on connections, WN is blowing them away.


DEN is a large and important market for UA but it's not as if DEN makes up a large fraction of UA flights, seats, or seat-miles. UA, like AA and DL, is broadly distributed over multiple hubs.

As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).

I do not believe that UA, DL, AC, BA, LH (and IATA) are wrong when they say they each have 10k+ too many employees and expect a multi year recovery. Like the UA notes said: it is a marathon.


You are glossing over the network differences between each airline, the network demand recovery is what is shaping capacity.

AC, BA, & LH are all significantly more international reliant than UA, DL, or WN & AA so they aren't even in the same category (let alone a completely different geography with different demand environments).

UA is more international than the rest of the US4, I'd assume UA has the least % of revenue coming from leisure travelers, it has no Southeast hub, & their hubs are all in the most demand suppressed areas, it should be clear why they would run the least amount of capacity out of the US4. UA's EWR, SFO, ORD, DEN, LAX, & maybe even IAD aren't built for connections to Southeast leisure destinations, which is where demand is right now. They don't have a CLT or ATL, so they have no way of capitalizing on any of the current traffic demand.(outside of DEN-Mountain West & some IAH-Southeast)

You quote Delta as being in a similar capacity position as UA, but in reality that isn't really true. While overall capacity is lower than AA, they are considerably building up ATL, & to a lesser extent DTW, SLC, & MSP while their other focus cities and coastal hubs remain smaller, which is bringing down overall capacity.

Q2 TRASM isn't going to tell you much, you will need June (& July) data to actually take into account increased capacity, so far DL & AA have been able to significantly slow cash burn with their increased schedules. WN, DL, are at 50% LFs right now (with LF restrictions in place), AA is likely in the 60s with DFW & CLT in the 70s, so it isn't like these planes are going out empty.
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:39 pm

LAXintl wrote:
MileagePlus Holdings seeks to issue $3.0bil in secured notes due 2027.

SEC filing
https://ir.united.com/node/23821/html



I hope the recovery for UA is robust because our debt continue to rise during this crisis. I completely understand at this point in time we absolutely need the liquidity but at some point we are going to have to pay all of this money back. While passenger traffic may fully recover in 2-4 years it is becoming crystal clear it will be years before UA fully recovers financially.
 
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KVH68
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:37 pm

Does anyone know how many employees have taken the voluntary separation package so far (VSP/VSP2)? I heard 1,300 M&A. What about the other work groups such as TechOps, Ramp, Customer Service,...
 
MSPNWA
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:41 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Seems United management occupied with many townhalls. Here is one by the new COO

Here some pertinent commentary.

Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.


I don't expect the COO to admit anything different, but I have to push back against the statement about data. When competitors are operating schedules 2-3 times larger than you are, you're simply not getting the same amount of data as they are. They are getting a different set of data, and most importantly it's more robust and detailed than yours. I think the second part is accurate in that strategies are different, but at this point I'd say UA picked the wrong recovery strategy. Even in a marathon you need to run fast immediately when the gun sounds. You can't walk your way to victory.

Midwestindy wrote:
You are glossing over the network differences between each airline, the network demand recovery is what is shaping capacity.

AC, BA, & LH are all significantly more international reliant than UA, DL, or WN & AA so they aren't even in the same category (let alone a completely different geography with different demand environments).

UA is more international than the rest of the US4, I'd assume UA has the least % of revenue coming from leisure travelers, it has no Southeast hub, & their hubs are all in the most demand suppressed areas, it should be clear why they would run the least amount of capacity out of the US4. UA's EWR, SFO, ORD, DEN, LAX, & maybe even IAD aren't built for connections to Southeast leisure destinations, which is where demand is right now. They don't have a CLT or ATL, so they have no way of capitalizing on any of the current traffic demand.(outside of DEN-Mountain West & some IAH-Southeast)


I don't buy it. Prior networks mean almost nothing. Capacity is so much lower and demand is so shaken that any carrier could step up and meet the meager demand wherever it's needed. Previously having a larger international ratio isn't why UA is flying a fraction of their already too-small domestic fleet. Previously having a larger international ratio isn't why AA is larger at ORD and basically everywhere else domestically. Allegedly being in demand-suppressed areas isn't why WN is larger at DEN and basically everywhere else domestically. Not having a southeast hub (or allegedly being in demand-suppressed areas) isn't why IAH is a ghost town compared to DFW. This boils down to the decisions made in recovering. UA and DL are in a tough spot now by being the last movers. When they increase capacity, there's much less meat left on the bone industry-wide. Sure, they can shift some of that demand away from AA and WN and harm them too, but the point is that UA and DL aren't getting much advantage to a larger schedule if that capacity ends up as excess. And then everyone loses. It has disincentivized UA and DL from growing. And AA and WN love it, as they have the only chances to be the early clear winners. Either they win, or everyone doesn't. Now I didn't see that issue coming right away stemming from trying to come back last, but I'm also not getting paid to see it.

MIflyer12 wrote:
As a short answer, I believe WN is flying more than UA because it has both lower costs and more liquidity. I believe AA is flying more because it is desperate for cash. It can't accept a forecast for long-depressed demand because it will be the first of the Big 4 to run out of cash. We will see in 2Q TRASM figures who was right. A bunch of 30% load factor flights at punishingly low fares is not a mix to make money (nor to lower AA's breakeven I would guess).


Every carrier is desperate for cash. Implying that some carriers are and some aren't is quite the statement when they all are racking up debt to stay alive. Throw debt out the window. What matters right now is cash, and who can turn their operations cash-positive the fastest and strongest. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If AA's running a larger schedule for more cash, then that's the strategy that UA should be taking as well. But clearly there was a difference in opinion, and now UA and DL are in a tougher spot to grow operations to stem cash-loss.
 
ordbosewr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:53 pm

jayunited wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
MileagePlus Holdings seeks to issue $3.0bil in secured notes due 2027.

SEC filing
https://ir.united.com/node/23821/html



I hope the recovery for UA is robust because our debt continue to rise during this crisis. I completely understand at this point in time we absolutely need the liquidity but at some point we are going to have to pay all of this money back. While passenger traffic may fully recover in 2-4 years it is becoming crystal clear it will be years before UA fully recovers financially.


Unfortunately, this statement is true not just for United, but for MANY businesses in the US.
Priority 1 for UA is stop burning cash and survive
Priority 2 build capacity in the markets that can support them while staying with priority 1.
Priority 3, when the economy recovers, pay down debt and hoard cash
Priority 90190202 buy back stock........
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:39 am

MSPNWA wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Seems United management occupied with many townhalls. Here is one by the new COO

Here some pertinent commentary.

Q. Please explain why American and Southwest are flying heavier schedules than United. What do they know that we don't know?
A. All airlines see a very consistent set of data around demand, so our competitors are not seeing anything that we cannot. We may differ from them in how we view the recovery: we see it as a marathon, not a sprint. Our approach is to conserve cash now to make sure we're in a strong financial position when demand normalizes.


I don't expect the COO to admit anything different, but I have to push back against the statement about data. When competitors are operating schedules 2-3 times larger than you are, you're simply not getting the same amount of data as they are. They are getting a different set of data, and most importantly it's more robust and detailed than yours. I think the second part is accurate in that strategies are different, but at this point I'd say UA picked the wrong recovery strategy. Even in a marathon you need to run fast immediately when the gun sounds. You can't walk your way to victory.

Every carrier is desperate for cash. Implying that some carriers are and some aren't is quite the statement when they all are racking up debt to stay alive. Throw debt out the window. What matters right now is cash, and who can turn their operations cash-positive the fastest and strongest. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If AA's running a larger schedule for more cash, then that's the strategy that UA should be taking as well. But clearly there was a difference in opinion, and now UA and DL are in a tougher spot to grow operations to stem cash-loss.


In a few weeks time we will all see if UA's ultra conservative Q2 strategy paid off or if UA should have swung for the fences like AA. Personally I think UA made the right decision flying only 10% of the schedule in May and June. However I could be wrong and honestly my position has changed early on I wanted UA to be more aggressive it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I change my position and thought UA made the right decision. Kirby has admitted UA could have flown more of the schedule like AA has done but at what cost. An airline like UA is at disadvantage when airlines like NK and F9 are in the drivers seat in terms of pricing power. WN decided early on to match most F9 and NK's fares which WN can do because they have lower cost. WN has just started rising their fares heading into July as demand continues to grow. AA was not afraid to get on the fight for every leisure passengers and their passenger numbers prove it. AA in June carried 3 times more passengers than UA there is no arguing those facts. The questions many people are looking to have answered in a few weeks is this: 1) Did UA loose money by hold firm at 10% capacity for the month of June even though it was clear demand was rising? or question 2) Did AA loose money by chasing every leisure traveler at bottom of the barrel fares?

UA in June flew 10% of our schedule Kirby stated he expects Q2 revenue to be down somewhere around 92%. I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but I think in June AA flew around 30%-35% of their schedule. If there revenue remains down 90% or more in Q2 I wonder how many people would still believe AA made the right choice by going head to head with the NK, F9, and WN? The only way we all will know which airline made the right decision in Q2 is by patiently waiting for each airlines Q2 report.
 
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janders
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:01 am

jayunited wrote:
The only way we all will know which airline made the right decision in Q2 is by patiently waiting for each airlines Q2 report.


I am not sure looking at Q2 numbers would really prove which was better.

If United(or Delta for that matter) indeed had offered a much more aggressive schedule which means many more seats chasing a small number of customers, it could just mean an even more disastrous result, everyone including AA.

Pricing is not the primary driver of travel today, so demand is not elastic as it normally would be in defining the customer market size. Ultimately could just mean be even more seats chasing about the same number of passengers at rather crappy yields.

What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:34 am

janders wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The only way we all will know which airline made the right decision in Q2 is by patiently waiting for each airlines Q2 report.


I am not sure looking at Q2 numbers would really prove which was better.

If United(or Delta for that matter) indeed had offered a much more aggressive schedule which means many more seats chasing a small number of customers, it could just mean an even more disastrous result, everyone including AA.

Pricing is not the primary driver of travel today, so demand is not elastic as it normally would be in defining the customer market size. Ultimately could just mean be even more seats chasing about the same number of passengers at rather crappy yields.

What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


I agree. I don't think Q2 results will tell us who made the right decision here. At this point, it seems that UA and DL has burned a lot less cash than AA but has lost out market share. It's hard to say whether or not that's permanent loss of some ff. I've seen some praises of AA online. And part of AA's "success" has been the much quicker demand recovery in Texas, Arizona and Florida. They've been able to advertise a much larger schedule and run 25% schedule for June. So that has obviously helped their cash burn.

Things I think will be different in July/August. All ULCCs have brought a lot of capacity. Same with WN, B6 and AS. And legacies are doubling capacity also. At the same time, COVID infection is accelerating in those 3 states. We could very well see another crash in those markets with a lot of refund in July/August. And then you will have AA canceling last minute and burning cash from both operating more flights and cash refunds. You'd have LCCs flying empty planes to Florida. And Kirby could end up looking like a savant.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:02 am

Q2 and subsequent quarter numbers are going to be very noisy, so doubt they provide much guidance as to how the operations is really doing.
There will be tons of charges be it fleet writedown, employee severance cost, more rapid depreciation, mark to market charges etc. Since a portion will have real impact on the operating ledger Its going to be quite hard to peel back the onion imo to make apples vs apples comparison.
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FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:21 pm

janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
LHUSA
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:50 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.


Many companies are banning travel for the remainder of the year - especially International travel. Domestic travel is limited to absolutely essential travel only and most are still requiring multi-level approvals before travel is permitted (many times up to the COO/CFO level). Most of those that are flying right now are one-off leisure trips. A few flights on a different carrier is not going to to influence most loyal travelers to permanently jump ship. And those that truly care about loyalty/mileage accrual can still get on board a UA flight to most places.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:14 pm

LHUSA wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.


Many companies are banning travel for the remainder of the year - especially International travel. Domestic travel is limited to absolutely essential travel only and most are still requiring multi-level approvals before travel is permitted (many times up to the COO/CFO level). Most of those that are flying right now are one-off leisure trips. A few flights on a different carrier is not going to to influence most loyal travelers to permanently jump ship. And those that truly care about loyalty/mileage accrual can still get on board a UA flight to most places.


Once the other carriers have the passengers onboard AND have their information, it will be easier to recruit those passengers (status match, etc.).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ordbosewr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:01 am

FlyHossD wrote:
janders wrote:
...What United instead has done with its more limited capacity is actually being able to employ some yield management and not sell its seats at rock bottom prices, but instead seek to earn a bit of a premium compared to peers.


But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.


For airlines I hope you are correct, but from my company nothing big is changing anytime soon. I have stated this previously, but for business travel to begin companies need to be back in the office and wanting to have 3rd parties in their offices.

My company is on a multi-stage office opening, we are on stage 1, having 3rd parties are on an exceptional basis until stage 3, which they hope to happen in the fall. None of that sounds very hopeful for business travel.
I think there is always a subset of business travel that will happen, but really we need to get 90% back in the air not the 20%.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:22 am

Looks like we are not going to be far away from stay at home orders gettting enacted in Texas and possibly other states. At this point, I would say UA's conservative planning may come out looking the best in July.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 am

FlyHossD wrote:
But what is the cost of losing UA customers to other carriers? Business travelers won't stay grounded for long.

FlyHossD wrote:
Once the other carriers have the passengers onboard AND have their information, it will be easier to recruit those passengers (status match, etc.).


I would not worry about it much. More important worry is the daily cash bleed. A billion a month is not sustainable, so that needs to be the focus imo.

Also bulk of people flying today are bottom yield, leisure travelers. There is hardly any corporate travel to speak of today.

And when corp travel does return, the industry will play musical chairs anyhow as airlines emerge smaller and network changes will drive customers to shift naturally based on their own travel needs.

And UA is actively seeking feedback from corp customers to anticipate their future route needs and time frames for returning to the skies.
https://skift.com/2020/06/23/how-united ... ld-routes/
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LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:53 am

tphuang wrote:
Looks like we are not going to be far away from stay at home orders gettting enacted in Texas and possibly other states. At this point, I would say UA's conservative planning may come out looking the best in July.


The odds of a stay at home order aren’t high, though masks will probably be mandatory.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:48 pm

United ups its MileagePlus debt offering. Lets see what it closes at next week.

nited Airlines, Inc. ("United") announced the pricing and upsize of the previously announced private offering by Mileage Plus Holdings, LLC, a direct wholly-owned subsidiary of United that operates the MileagePlus program ("MPH"), and Mileage Plus Intellectual Property Assets, Ltd., an indirect wholly-owned subsidiary of MPH ("MIPA" and, together with MPH, the "MileagePlus Subsidiaries"). An aggregate of $3.8 billion in principal amount of 6.50% senior secured notes due 2027 (the "Notes") is expected to be issued on July 2, 2020, subject to customary closing conditions. Concurrently with the issuance of the Notes, United expects the MileagePlus Subsidiaries to enter into a credit agreement providing for a term loan facility ("Term Loan Facility") for an aggregate of $3.0 billion, also subject to customary closing conditions. The Notes and the Term Loan Facility, in a total aggregate amount of $6.8 billion, replace the previously announced committed term loan facility.

https://hub.united.com/2020-06-23-unite ... 42190.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:25 am

Easy way for United to own market share dominance.....bring back ice onboard.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:02 pm

SFO-PVG resumes July 8.

WeSa
UA857 SFO-PVG 1100-1745+1

ThSu
UA858 PVG-SFO 2140-2055

https://hub.united.com/2020-06-26-unite ... 70881.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:03 pm

LAXintl wrote:
SFO-PVG resumes July 8.

WeSa
UA857 SFO-PVG 1100-1745+1

ThSu
UA858 PVG-SFO 2140-2055

https://hub.united.com/2020-06-26-unite ... 70881.html



The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.
 
amtravels
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:14 am

I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.
 
LHUSA
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:28 am

amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


Leaving the middle seat open is just optics anyway. If you’re willing to fly, you’re ok with the risks. United already left it up to customer choice and fewer than 3% of passengers on a 70%+ LF flight opted to change/cancel even when notified 24 hours in advance.
 
airlineaddict
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:33 am

jayunited wrote:
The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.


Any background as to why ICN was chosen (e.g., previous rights with ability to sell tags, landing fee costs, etc)?
 
factsonly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:34 am

Interesting one off flight by B77W N214U.

- 25 Jun 2020 SFO - HOP UA2585 B77W N214U
- 25 Jun 2020 HOP - NUE UA2576 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 NUE - GRK UA2577 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 GRK - SFO UA2588 B77W N214U

Trump calling this troops home??

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2140u
 
jayunited
Posts: 2854
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:05 pm

amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:25 pm

jayunited wrote:
amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.


I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4232
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:20 pm

factsonly wrote:
Interesting one off flight by B77W N214U.

- 25 Jun 2020 SFO - HOP UA2585 B77W N214U
- 25 Jun 2020 HOP - NUE UA2576 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 NUE - GRK UA2577 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 GRK - SFO UA2588 B77W N214U

Trump calling this troops home??

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2140u

I don't know that they're necessarily coming home. There was a UA 77W a couple of weeks ago headed over from POB.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:33 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
jayunited wrote:
amtravels wrote:
I’m interested to hear some of yall’s thoughts around United effectively ending social distancing policies and allowing planes to fly full just a few weeks after outrage over full planes in the news. I’m split... perhaps it is necessary from a business standpoint but it is not good for viral spread.


There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.


I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.


Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?
 
alpine1989
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:26 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Interesting one off flight by B77W N214U.

- 25 Jun 2020 SFO - HOP UA2585 B77W N214U
- 25 Jun 2020 HOP - NUE UA2576 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 NUE - GRK UA2577 B77W N214U
- 27 Jun 2020 GRK - SFO UA2588 B77W N214U

Trump calling this troops home??

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n2140u

I don't know that they're necessarily coming home. There was a UA 77W a couple of weeks ago headed over from POB.


Regular troop rotations. United is a regular DOD charter operator.
 
theasianguy
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:31 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:25 pm

airlineaddict wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.


Any background as to why ICN was chosen (e.g., previous rights with ability to sell tags, landing fee costs, etc)?


Here's why I think UA ended up choosing ICN. NRT has a nighttime curfew from 00:30-5:00. United must ensure that crew do not overnight at PVG, so the return PVG-SFO flight must depart the same evening. It can't remain overnight until its usual departure time at 12 noon the next day. Given UA 858's departure time at 21:40, it would arrive at NRT at 1:40, which is past curfew. ICN does not have a night curfew, so a midnight crew stop is possible.

UA is selling SFO-PVG through with no option for tags. Given how few US-China flights there are currently, I wouldn't be surprised if it were already sold out through the end of summer.
 
panamair
Posts: 4324
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:10 pm

LHUSA wrote:
amtravels wrote:
Leaving the middle seat open is just optics anyway. If you’re willing to fly, you’re ok with the risks..


Sorry but I don’t agree. Every single one of these measures by itself is not a 100% solution to avoid catching the virus; however, they all help towards reducing the risk of infection and/or risk of getting a heavy viral load in case infection happens. It’s simply common sense that if there is an infected pax close by, you are less likely to get infected or get a bigger viral load if the person is one seat away from you versus being right next to you...

I personally have been buying tickets on Delta and JetBlue instead of AA or UA because I am pretty much guaranteed an empty seat next to me...
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:14 pm

panamair wrote:
LHUSA wrote:
amtravels wrote:
Leaving the middle seat open is just optics anyway. If you’re willing to fly, you’re ok with the risks..


Sorry but I don’t agree. Every single one of these measures by itself is not a 100% solution to avoid catching the virus; however, they all help towards reducing the risk of infection and/or risk of getting a heavy viral load in case infection happens. It’s simply common sense that if there is an infected pax close by, you are less likely to get infected or get a bigger viral load if the person is one seat away from you versus being right next to you...

I personally have been buying tickets on Delta and JetBlue instead of AA or UA because I am pretty much guaranteed an empty seat next to me...


Sorry but that 18 inches isn’t going to do anything. It’s science.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5173
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:21 pm

JMO on this. blocking middle seat doesn't solve a lot of problems, but it will make things safer. Wear a mask + seat in front of you and behind you means you most likely can't infect the guys in front or behind you through droplet. So then, it's about the people to the left and right. If you are in the middle and turn left or right, there really isn't anything aside from mask keeping your droplet from reaching the people on my side. And If I'm looking forward, there will still be droplet going to the side, although weaker. With middle seat blocked and mask on, that should reduce the amount of viral droplet that can reach the person 1 seat away. Or at least reduces the persistent viral droplet reaching someone more than 1 seat away.

Also it isn't just 18 inch. It's from middle of window seat to middle of aisle seat. So about 2 seat width + 2 hand rails -> probably 40 inches vs 1 seat width + 1 handrail -> 20 inches otherwise.

I will take my chances that not enough of viral droplet coming out of side of nose can reach 3 and half feet away vs under 2 feet away.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:02 am

I'm guessing the August schedule update gets released tonight ? (Saturday)
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1396
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:01 am

sldispatcher wrote:
I'm guessing the August schedule update gets released tonight ? (Saturday)


UA usually releases schedules Saturday mornings, so I would guess next Saturday at this point, but sometimes they break off of that pattern
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:20 am

UAX Update:

E175SC:
N606UX now flying Skywest
N612UX now flying Skywest

E170:
N641RW returned to flying
N645RW returned to flying
N858RW returned to flying

E145:
N14542 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N12564 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N15572 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N14573 exited Fleet, stored at IGM

CR550:
Correction: N504GJ is flying, N506GJ is parked at STL
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:37 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
jayunited wrote:

There isn't a single airline flying today observing true "Social Distancing" onboard because social distancing requires 6 feet between people not 17-18 inches the width of a coach seat. Secondly most passengers who are on flights 70% full stick with their original reservation instead of opting to change their flight. The reason the video you are referring to went viral was based totally on shock and fear but as we become more knowledgeable we also become less fearful. The Coronavirus is real, the pandemic is real but the shock value and the fear that was associated with COVID early on has subsided a bit. This is why you are not seeing the outrage now that we saw on Mother's Day weekend when that viral video was taken even though airlines like UA are in the headlines. People now understand Coronavirus isn't going away, this virus is going to be with us for some time to come and we have to learn how to live with this virus for the time being. Even if there is a vaccine available by the end of 2020, it will still be months before the majority of the population is vaccinated, and no one is even talking about how a vaccine would even be rolled out to the general public. Do yo really believe airlines that are blocking middle seats will continue to block those seats until a majority (60% or more) of the population is vaccinated? If an airline is not willing to commit to blocking middle seats until a majority of the population is vaccinated, then blocking middle seats is nothing more than a PR stunt that will probably fade away for good in the fall.

United has to continue to focus on health and safety we are cleaning and disinfecting our airport locations multiple times a day. United is using approved medical grade cleaners and disinfectants cleaning every surface by hand onboard our aircraft. Afterward we following it up by using an electrostatic sprayer just to make sure every surface is disinfected. This deep cleaning and spraying done on every UA and UAX aircraft before every single flight. Together with providing hand sanitizer, requiring masks or face coverings and the use of hospital grade HEPA filters that clean the cabin air this is how UA is keeping passengers safe. Also from internal documentation UA is in talks with Boeing, Airbus and the FAA to see about the use of UV lights in lavatories. If approved each lav would then be disinfected by UV light after each use. No timetable has been given as to when a decision will be made and of course before any UV lights can be installed onboard an aircraft rigorous testing would need to be performed for safety reasons and the FAA would need to sign off on it. But make no mistake UA takes COVID-19 seriously and we are doing everything to protect employees and passengers from this virus.


I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.


Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?


Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:47 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

I don’t know . . . Delta and Southwest are keeping their seating policies in place until at least Oct 1. Perhaps they thought it was the right thing to do given that the taxpayer is subsidizing the payroll until that date.


Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?


Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t


Ah I see.....so we scream social distancing and how dare they don’t until it becomes inconvienent? Welcome the massive hypocrisy of the human race.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:55 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Maybe you can explain why I was on a 100% full flight a couple days ago with no Non revs cleared. United gives the passenger a choice to go to another less full flight for free and apparently no one took it. If no one cares then why do it?


Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t


Ah I see.....so we scream social distancing and how dare they don’t until it becomes inconvienent? Welcome the massive hypocrisy of the human race.


Not really. One can get the best of both worlds by flying WN or DL. Poor choice on United’s side IMO.
 
User avatar
kordcj
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:23 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

Maybe because it is inconvenient, especially when there are few flights a day. Again, not sure how DL and WN can swing it, but United can’t


Ah I see.....so we scream social distancing and how dare they don’t until it becomes inconvienent? Welcome the massive hypocrisy of the human race.


Not really. One can get the best of both worlds by flying WN or DL. Poor choice on United’s side IMO.


From what I understand UA opted to allow passengers to choose to opt out a flight where the middle seat could be occupied instead of not selling middle seats. That way those who care about their health risks still had a choice. It makes sense, if all the airlines choose to block middle seats, who’s the first mover to bring them back? Imagine the headline: United bringing back dreaded middle seat. Keeping it as an option already avoids the negative press. Besides selling a plane at 66% capacity isn’t profitable unless the window and aisle seats are splitting the cost of the empty middle seat, which most likely isn’t the case for any carrier.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
jagraham
Posts: 1098
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:28 pm

theasianguy wrote:
airlineaddict wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The rumors turn out to be true SFO-PVG will stop at ICN for crew change. I didn't put much stock in those rumors when they first surfaced. I thought the crew change would take place at NRT like we are already doing for our cargo flights, but there are times when rumors turn out to be true. Passenger service flights will change crews at ICN while cargo only flights will continue to change crews at NRT.


Any background as to why ICN was chosen (e.g., previous rights with ability to sell tags, landing fee costs, etc)?


Here's why I think UA ended up choosing ICN. NRT has a nighttime curfew from 00:30-5:00. United must ensure that crew do not overnight at PVG, so the return PVG-SFO flight must depart the same evening. It can't remain overnight until its usual departure time at 12 noon the next day. Given UA 858's departure time at 21:40, it would arrive at NRT at 1:40, which is past curfew. ICN does not have a night curfew, so a midnight crew stop is possible.

UA is selling SFO-PVG through with no option for tags. Given how few US-China flights there are currently, I wouldn't be surprised if it were already sold out through the end of summer.


Forgot about the NRT curfew. Good point.
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4232
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:36 am

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 am

Just reading some of the comments here about onboard social distancing. If you really think having a middle seat free between you on a flight makes it oh so much safer, then i really don't understand where you have been for the last few month, but it clearly wasn't listening to any of the science.

Back to the thread...…..
 
panamair
Posts: 4324
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm

UAL777UK wrote:
Just reading some of the comments here about onboard social distancing. If you really think having a middle seat free between you on a flight makes it oh so much safer, then i really don't understand where you have been for the last few month, but it clearly wasn't listening to any of the science.

Back to the thread...…..


It's not just specifically about an empty middle seat or specifically about wearing masks, or about HEPA filters etc. It's all those things taken together that help reduce risk. One other material benefit about keeping middle seats open is that you're by default limiting the number of passengers on board - and that is definitely a huge risk mitigation - you can't tell me that the probability of catching the virus is not significantly reduced with 60 people in the same metal tube versus 100.
 
codc10
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:38 pm

panamair wrote:
UAL777UK wrote:
Just reading some of the comments here about onboard social distancing. If you really think having a middle seat free between you on a flight makes it oh so much safer, then i really don't understand where you have been for the last few month, but it clearly wasn't listening to any of the science.

Back to the thread...…..


It's not just specifically about an empty middle seat or specifically about wearing masks, or about HEPA filters etc. It's all those things taken together that help reduce risk. One other material benefit about keeping middle seats open is that you're by default limiting the number of passengers on board - and that is definitely a huge risk mitigation - you can't tell me that the probability of catching the virus is not significantly reduced with 60 people in the same metal tube versus 100.


But is it reduced by 40%? I don't think it's necessarily a linear relationship. Of course, the greatest risk mitigation of all is not traveling, so we all must decide where we fall on that spectrum.
 
redrooster3
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:32 pm

Got a interesting group 2 ferry out of GYR scheduled for today...N37513 a 737MAX9 scheduled GYR-MCO as UA2708. Lets hope she makes it!!
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:27 pm

codc10 wrote:
panamair wrote:
UAL777UK wrote:
Just reading some of the comments here about onboard social distancing. If you really think having a middle seat free between you on a flight makes it oh so much safer, then i really don't understand where you have been for the last few month, but it clearly wasn't listening to any of the science.

Back to the thread...…..


It's not just specifically about an empty middle seat or specifically about wearing masks, or about HEPA filters etc. It's all those things taken together that help reduce risk. One other material benefit about keeping middle seats open is that you're by default limiting the number of passengers on board - and that is definitely a huge risk mitigation - you can't tell me that the probability of catching the virus is not significantly reduced with 60 people in the same metal tube versus 100.


But is it reduced by 40%? I don't think it's necessarily a linear relationship. Of course, the greatest risk mitigation of all is not traveling, so we all must decide where we fall on that spectrum.


I will fall on the DL/WN part of the spectrum for now. If it’s the same price as UA/AA and arguably UA has the lightest schedule at the moment, I might as well.

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