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KFTG
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:59 am

Obviously I was being hyperbolic.
It’s obvious we have quite a few folks here who haven’t a clue as to how the industry works.
Any “forecast” beyond 6 months is a joke.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:26 pm

toga998 wrote:
With the imminent rearrangement of the fleet can it be assumed that the 77E will receive an expedited retirement date and a solid future for the A350 order? International travel will, hopefully, be back to normal by 2027, and its fuel efficiency will be a good excuse to bring them onboard.


I think the opposite is true... 777s stick around longer, A350 order in greater doubt.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:58 pm

codc10 wrote:

I think the opposite is true... 777s stick around longer, A350 order in greater doubt.


I tend to agree. Post COVID, I believe air travel will need to push more passengers through hubs as the demand on thinner routes to secondary markets may make many of them hard to justify. Even domestically, there will probably be fewer thin markets served that over-fly hubs.

Additionally, a lot of us have been surprised by the range of the 78X. As it turns out there are very few missions that the A359 can do that the family of 788, 789 and 78Xs cannot do at UA.
 
Jet-lagged
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:51 pm

as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 pm

Jet-lagged wrote:
as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??


Meant bumped cans.....freight. I do t fly SIN often but Iv never been passenger restricted. Now what they did with freight is above my pay grade, but I can tell you we are always at max gross for takeoff.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:13 pm

Pinto wrote:
They were flying a regular 787-9. They only have 2 cpnfigs of the 787-9 , one with the new Polaris and the old however the difference in total seats is under 8 i think. Originally they held seat however the last flew times I looked pre-COVID they weren't holding any.


Reconfiguration, the B788 is 243 seats (up from 219) and the B789 is 257 (up from 252). The range of the B789 is 7635 nmi at 290 passengers (J30Y260, or MF's exact configuration). SFO-SIN is 7345 nmi. I would suspect that BTH and JHB are both filed as alternates, which are each less than 50 nmi from SIN, making it possible. If seats have to be blocked, it would likely be the last row of Y.
 
as739x
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:08 pm

Jet-lagged wrote:
as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??


Sorry, as Critical said, being a widebody obviously bags and most cargo in is loaded in cans, with the exception of the bulk section. It was frequent to bump low priority cargo to get all the revenue passengers onboard.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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Polot
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:30 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If seats have to be blocked, it would likely be the last row of Y.

When blocking seats it’s not like they are literally blocking rows of seats- they just do not sell to full capacity. Unless weight and balance is an issue (unlikely) it doesn’t matter, and UA doesn’t really care, where in the cabin the empty seats are.

If more revenue seats were sold than capable that day then people will get bumped from the flight if not enough people volunteer to take another flight.
 
CALAV8R
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:41 pm

as739x wrote:
Jet-lagged wrote:
as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??


Sorry, as Critical said, being a widebody obviously bags and most cargo in is loaded in cans, with the exception of the bulk section. It was frequent to bump low priority cargo to get all the revenue passengers onboard.


I wonder if the addition of the 2nd SFO-SIN frequency helped with cargo distribution. Every time I've been on either of those flights, it was packed to the gills (pre-COVID) The last time I was on that route was January and it was completely full both directions.
 
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wxman11
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:52 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:

Now what they did with freight is above my pay grade, but I can tell you we are always at max gross for takeoff.


I assume you are a pilot with UA?? Just like pax on an oversold flight who don't get on, the cargo shipments get rerouted onto the same flight the next day or reroutes via a different route/flight. Most times, a cargo shipment for a particular route, like SFO-SIN, if shipment was offloaded due to payload restrction at the last minute, that (i.e AKE, PMC) will be rebooked on same flight for tomorrow and everything else that is originally booked on tomorrow's flight will either be lucky to get on or be on stby. Stby meaning, if there is weight available on flight to take it, then it goes. The decision to determine what gets offloaded from a flight due to payload restriction goes as follows: mail, cargo, pax baggage and finally pax as last resort. Although I will tell you that rebooking cargo shipments, especially if its a split shipment, is a pain in the butt. Its easy to rebook a passenger but harder when it comes to cargo. But at least the good thing about being in cargo when you offload is that cargo doesn't talk back or complaint. Most if not all freight forwarders don't make a big deal if their shipment doesn't make it on the flight provided that there is a good valid reason.
 
as739x
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:27 pm

CALAV8R wrote:
as739x wrote:
Jet-lagged wrote:

What are those??


Sorry, as Critical said, being a widebody obviously bags and most cargo in is loaded in cans, with the exception of the bulk section. It was frequent to bump low priority cargo to get all the revenue passengers onboard.


I wonder if the addition of the 2nd SFO-SIN frequency helped with cargo distribution. Every time I've been on either of those flights, it was packed to the gills (pre-COVID) The last time I was on that route was January and it was completely full both directions.


I found in my time in the SOC that loads on both flights usually mirrored each other by around 20 seats. However, there were certain days of the week when the morning flight would seem to be lighter. I also non-rev on the flight 4-5 times a year and the morning flight would usually be a little easier to get a better seat.

The SIN service has been a great performer for UA no doubt. Yeah January loads were very high, I flew via Australia to get to my usual destination due to both SIN flights being so full.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
77H
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:29 pm

wxman11 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Now what they did with freight is above my pay grade, but I can tell you we are always at max gross for takeoff.


I assume you are a pilot with UA?? Just like pax on an oversold flight who don't get on, the cargo shipments get rerouted onto the same flight the next day or reroutes via a different route/flight. Most times, a cargo shipment for a particular route, like SFO-SIN, if shipment was offloaded due to payload restrction at the last minute, that (i.e AKE, PMC) will be rebooked on same flight for tomorrow and everything else that is originally booked on tomorrow's flight will either be lucky to get on or be on stby. Stby meaning, if there is weight available on flight to take it, then it goes. The decision to determine what gets offloaded from a flight due to payload restriction goes as follows: mail, cargo, pax baggage and finally pax as last resort. Although I will tell you that rebooking cargo shipments, especially if its a split shipment, is a pain in the butt. Its easy to rebook a passenger but harder when it comes to cargo. But at least the good thing about being in cargo when you offload is that cargo doesn't talk back or complaint. Most if not all freight forwarders don't make a big deal if their shipment doesn't make it on the flight provided that there is a good valid reason.


The order of accommodation for the cargo pits is as follows: AOG/M, Pax Baggage, Mail, Freight. Freight is always lowest priority unless special agreements are made with the mail team to hold back mail for backlogged freight. Situation usually has to be pretty severe for this to occur.

The physical cargo doesn’t talk back or complain but the shippers sure do. Some freight forwarders are understanding, especially if they are advised in advance that a particular flight regularly takes weight restrictions. Other forwarders can act like the sky is falling. All depends on the people at a given forwarder and what they are shipping.

77H
 
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wxman11
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:18 pm

77H wrote:

The order of accommodation for the cargo pits is as follows: AOG/M, Pax Baggage, Mail, Freight. Freight is always lowest priority unless special agreements are made with the mail team to hold back mail for backlogged freight. Situation usually has to be pretty severe for this to occur.

The physical cargo doesn’t talk back or complain but the shippers sure do. Some freight forwarders are understanding, especially if they are advised in advance that a particular flight regularly takes weight restrictions. Other forwarders can act like the sky is falling. All depends on the people at a given forwarder and what they are shipping.

77H


Yes, cargo has lowest priority however that depends on what is being loaded. Perishable shipments go no matter what (depending how much you have especially if its cherry season) along with AOG parts and prio freight. Dry cargo stays. Mail, we used to carry it but we suspended that service with USPS years back mainly because of the hidden DGs. I don't work for UA but with one of their JV partners, so I guess it depends on the carrier's how they list what get offloaded first.

Yes, its true about the freight forwarders. Most are unstanding while others are a real piece of work. Our sales team are the one who interact with them as we only pass on the info to them. If we know in advance that there will be a payload restriction, of course we coorindate with our sales team but harder when its the last minute. Only 3 times I had to offload cargo at the very last minute (when the caro was already loaded onto the aircraft). Although I don't remember if I had ever offloaded mail, again it was some 5 yrs ago that we suspended that service with USPS.

Any route to SIN is a high yield route, I think. Sometimes if not most times, we have hard time securing space from TYO to SIN.
 
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OneSexyL1011
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:03 pm

SFO-SIN-SFO rarely is weight restricted and we don't block seats from inventory. If for whatever reason it was, freight will be cut to the amount needed. Passengers will be the last thing cut, which has been none to my knowledge. Assuming normal operations of course. (No MEL restrictions, or major reroutes due to volcanos ..etc)

The old LAX-SIN-LAX turn however, was a whole different ballgame.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:59 pm

Pretty huge jump in aircraft flying today for UA. I show 38.7% of total units flying at least one leg today.
Virtually all 319/320 units that haven't been stored for over 14 days are flying. NB fleet flying at 40% today.

The 787/77W fleet is flying 59 of 77 or 77%. Now about half of 772A fleet flying today.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:09 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
Pretty huge jump in aircraft flying today for UA. I show 38.7% of total units flying at least one leg today.
Virtually all 319/320 units that haven't been stored for over 14 days are flying. NB fleet flying at 40% today.

The 787/77W fleet is flying 59 of 77 or 77%. Now about half of 772A fleet flying today.


Are any of the 77C (L-CO 777-200s) flying?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:20 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
Pretty huge jump in aircraft flying today for UA. I show 38.7% of total units flying at least one leg today.
Virtually all 319/320 units that haven't been stored for over 14 days are flying. NB fleet flying at 40% today.

The 787/77W fleet is flying 59 of 77 or 77%. Now about half of 772A fleet flying today.


Are any of the 77C (L-CO 777-200s) flying?


I thought those were 77E with Polaris and 77Y with the Diamond seats?

3/0013 did a IAH-DEN-IAH turn yesterday.
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:43 pm

Over the next few days or weeks, UA should be publicly announcing we are planning to hold capacity at or near 40% through the remainder of the year. Should demand drop UA would of course pull back on capacity. Right now out of EWR demand is still down a whopping 84%, as New York continues to deal with the fallout from COVID but that is an improvement from where demand was at its lowest point. UA is seeing demand return faster at our IAD, IAH, DEN and ORD hubs, demand at EWR and SFO should pick up a lot more in August. LAX will remain a UA hub although right now UA is not looking to take advantage of the situation (meaning AA's slight reduction at LAX).

The bright spot continues to be UA Cargo which has more than stepped up to the plate and delivered for UA in a big way. We are continuing to add more cargo flights as demand and shipping rates have remained strong.

Looking ahead to the fall UA plans to bring back LAX-SYD 3x weekly, there was no mention of when IAH-SYD would resume.

As a result of UA Cargo and strong cargo demand UA plans on resuming passenger service ORD-HKG either 1x weekly or 2x weekly. It was announced so fast I couldn't keep up my apologies. However there was no direction was given if UA plans to continue to operate passenger service ORD-HKG once shipping rates decline.

Also in the fall UA will increase EWR-TLV frequency to 10x weekly and UA plans to launch passenger service ORD-TLV 3x weekly service. UA's pre-COVID SFO/IAD-TLV flights were not brought up, so I'm not sure when service will resume on those routes.
Heading into the fall Hawaii is a bright spot with demand increasing which is why UA is increasing flights to Hawaii. Also there may be some opportunities in the Caribbean this fall as well.

The overall theme was UA is focusing on our network, and not concerning ourselves with what other airlines are doing. Of all the US carriers UA had the most diverse international network pre-COVID with most of that network still down it does effect how much we can fly domestically. Also corporate travel which was a huge portion of UA business continues to be down. However UA continues to hear from travel managers and clients who are anxious to get back out there but most of them say they will NOT resume travel until there is a vaccine in place. UA continues to focus on cash burn we are headed in the right direction in terms of of daily cash burn but of course there is still much more work to be done to get us down to zero. United continues to look for opportunities to restore the network and even expand the network, and UA continues to work with the unions to come up with solutions that will allow UA to respond quickly once demand returns.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:56 pm

jayunited wrote:
Over the next few days or weeks, UA should be publicly announcing we are planning to hold capacity at or near 40% through the remainder of the year. Should demand drop UA would of course pull back on capacity. Right now out of EWR demand is still down a whopping 84%, as New York continues to deal with the fallout from COVID but that is an improvement from where demand was at its lowest point. UA is seeing demand return faster at our IAD, IAH, DEN and ORD hubs, demand at EWR and SFO should pick up a lot more in August. LAX will remain a UA hub although right now UA is not looking to take advantage of the situation (meaning AA's slight reduction at LAX).

The bright spot continues to be UA Cargo which has more than stepped up to the plate and delivered for UA in a big way. We are continuing to add more cargo flights as demand and shipping rates have remained strong.

Looking ahead to the fall UA plans to bring back LAX-SYD 3x weekly, there was no mention of when IAH-SYD would resume.

As a result of UA Cargo and strong cargo demand UA plans on resuming passenger service ORD-HKG either 1x weekly or 2x weekly. It was announced so fast I couldn't keep up my apologies. However there was no direction was given if UA plans to continue to operate passenger service ORD-HKG once shipping rates decline.

Also in the fall UA will increase EWR-TLV frequency to 10x weekly and UA plans to launch passenger service ORD-TLV 3x weekly service. UA's pre-COVID SFO/IAD-TLV flights were not brought up, so I'm not sure when service will resume on those routes.
Heading into the fall Hawaii is a bright spot with demand increasing which is why UA is increasing flights to Hawaii. Also there may be some opportunities in the Caribbean this fall as well.

The overall theme was UA is focusing on our network, and not concerning ourselves with what other airlines are doing. Of all the US carriers UA had the most diverse international network pre-COVID with most of that network still down it does effect how much we can fly domestically. Also corporate travel which was a huge portion of UA business continues to be down. However UA continues to hear from travel managers and clients who are anxious to get back out there but most of them say they will NOT resume travel until there is a vaccine in place. UA continues to focus on cash burn we are headed in the right direction in terms of of daily cash burn but of course there is still much more work to be done to get us down to zero. United continues to look for opportunities to restore the network and even expand the network, and UA continues to work with the unions to come up with solutions that will allow UA to respond quickly once demand returns.


Amazing news about TLV (and all of the route news in general.). UA must be taking advantage of ElAls collapse/pause/reorganization. SFO-TLV just resumed operating passenger service 3 days a week.
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FSDan
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
Also in the fall UA will increase EWR-TLV frequency to 10x weekly and UA plans to launch passenger service ORD-TLV 3x weekly service. UA's pre-COVID SFO/IAD-TLV flights were not brought up, so I'm not sure when service will resume on those routes.


That's very interesting. I suppose the ORD-TLV service, like ORD-HKG, probably has something to do with the cargo component. Otherwise, it seems odd for UA to go out on a bit of a limb and fly a new route like that before bringing back a route like SFO-TLV that was by all indications a very strong performer pre-COVID. Alternatively, I suppose UA could have heard back from a Chicago area corporate client that's still doing a lot of travel (maybe Abbott Laboratories or something?) that they are willing to support a direct service to Israel. Either way, interesting development.
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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Also in the fall UA will increase EWR-TLV frequency to 10x weekly and UA plans to launch passenger service ORD-TLV 3x weekly service. UA's pre-COVID SFO/IAD-TLV flights were not brought up, so I'm not sure when service will resume on those routes.


That's very interesting. I suppose the ORD-TLV service, like ORD-HKG, probably has something to do with the cargo component. Otherwise, it seems odd for UA to go out on a bit of a limb and fly a new route like that before bringing back a route like SFO-TLV that was by all indications a very strong performer pre-COVID. Alternatively, I suppose UA could have heard back from a Chicago area corporate client that's still doing a lot of travel (maybe Abbott Laboratories or something?) that they are willing to support a direct service to Israel. Either way, interesting development.


UA is restarting 789 SFO-TLV service 3 days a week...I believe the first flight is this Wednesday the 8th.
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AA94
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Also in the fall UA will increase EWR-TLV frequency to 10x weekly and UA plans to launch passenger service ORD-TLV 3x weekly service. UA's pre-COVID SFO/IAD-TLV flights were not brought up, so I'm not sure when service will resume on those routes.


That's very interesting. I suppose the ORD-TLV service, like ORD-HKG, probably has something to do with the cargo component. Otherwise, it seems odd for UA to go out on a bit of a limb and fly a new route like that before bringing back a route like SFO-TLV that was by all indications a very strong performer pre-COVID. Alternatively, I suppose UA could have heard back from a Chicago area corporate client that's still doing a lot of travel (maybe Abbott Laboratories or something?) that they are willing to support a direct service to Israel. Either way, interesting development.


I was on the same call as jayunited, and the way I interpreted it is that cargo capacity is the financial justification for these routes, and the addition of pax service is just gravy. Passenger demand is still heavily down and doesn't justify the addition of new service.
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:18 pm

On the topic of demand out of EWR, I don't think I've ever seen anything remotely like this.
A week out to MCO, NK is $18 on every flight, F9 is at $20 and UA/B6 are at $26 almost every flight. And that pricing goes forward as far I can see.
To FLL on Thursday this week, NK is advertising $18, UA at 41 and B6 at 56. Next week, I'm seeing $18 from NK and $26 for UA/B6 everywhere.
To TPA a week from now, NK and F9 are at $18. UA/B6 are at $26.
To RSW a week from now, NK shows $14 and UA/B6 are at $18
To CLE a week from now, NK/UA are showing mostly $15
To ATL a week from now, NK/F9 at $18, UA at $26 and DL at $49

As a counterpoint on a route without NK, PBI shows $189 from both UA/B6. BOS shows $129 from both UA/B6. SDQ shows over $350 from UA/B6 on remaining flights.

I don't see how these Florida pricing can be remotely sustainable.

I'm not sure if UA is seeing 84% decline out of EWR in booking number or revenue. If it's the former, the revenue has to be down even more due to the ULCC pressure.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:24 pm

The internaional flying is riding the cargo wave, not because of passenger demand. Some countries like Australia are closed entirely, Israel only allows residents, and many others have quarantines in place.

Though the cargo gravy train will come to end sooner or later. We've already seen softening with Transpac rates down 30%.
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Ishrion
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United Adds ORD-TLV

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:29 pm

United will add nonstop passenger service between Chicago and Tel Aviv this September.

Awesome to see a new long-haul route during these times. Sounds like they're taking advantage of EL AL never starting the route?

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SFWN2ED0II
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Adds ORD-TLV

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:35 pm

They’ll also resume LAX-SYD and ORD-HKG
 
kiowa
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Re: United Adds ORD-TLV

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:36 pm

Outstanding! long awaited.
 
MAH4546
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Re: United Adds ORD-TLV

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:38 pm

Article has no context though. The local market isn't big, they don't care that LY cancelled the relaunch, but it could be they see a gap for needing to give TLV more connectivity to the States, and Chicago fills that, possibly temporarily.
a.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Adds ORD-TLV

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:40 pm

In addition to the new service to TLV out of ORD, we are adding more flights between TLV and EWR, which will increase from daily to 10 weekly flights in August. In October, subject to government approval, we will resume our IAD-TLV service, while our SFO-TLV three days a week nonstop service resumes July 8.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:55 pm

AA94 wrote:
I was on the same call as jayunited, and the way I interpreted it is that cargo capacity is the financial justification for these routes, and the addition of pax service is just gravy. Passenger demand is still heavily down and doesn't justify the addition of new service.


The resumption of 1x weekly ORD-HKG passenger service really threw me for a loop. UA operates daily cargo flights on this route I don't understand why we need to operate 1x weekly passengers flights. And to be honest I don't see passenger service sticking around on this route once cargo rates drop. Before COVID hit EWR-HKG was in trouble and had been reduced to 3x weekly.

As far as ORD-TLV, UA has had this flight in the works for some time, going back to early last year if the rumors are to be believed. Prior to coronavirus and according to rumor IAD-TLV was suppose to go daily this year and ORD-TLV was to launch 3x weekly. Quite frankly once COVID hit I had given up hope on ORD-TLV ever being launch, I was quite surprised to hear on the call today that UA would move forward with launching ORD-TLV service. I know from a cargo perspective UA has been hauling a lot of cargo to and from TLV but still I was quite surprised to hear ORD-TLV passenger service is launching.

In my opinion it seems like UA has a solid strategy going forward for all of our hubs except LAX. I think AA's decision at LAX might have caught UA off guard and right now UA is not sure what to do at LAX, so we are just going to stick with what we were already doing.
Last edited by jayunited on Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FSDan
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:03 am

jayunited wrote:
Before COVID hit EWR-HKG was in trouble and had been reduced to 3x weekly.


I thought EWR-HKG was still planned to be a daily 777-200ER this summer before COVID hit?
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panam330
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:08 am

FSDan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Before COVID hit EWR-HKG was in trouble and had been reduced to 3x weekly.


I thought EWR-HKG was still planned to be a daily 777-200ER this summer before COVID hit?

It was reduced after the protests in HKG tanked demand. COVID only killed off the rest of it.
 
ericm2031
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:44 am

FSDan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Also in the fall UA will increase EWR-TLV frequency to 10x weekly and UA plans to launch passenger service ORD-TLV 3x weekly service. UA's pre-COVID SFO/IAD-TLV flights were not brought up, so I'm not sure when service will resume on those routes.


That's very interesting. I suppose the ORD-TLV service, like ORD-HKG, probably has something to do with the cargo component. Otherwise, it seems odd for UA to go out on a bit of a limb and fly a new route like that before bringing back a route like SFO-TLV that was by all indications a very strong performer pre-COVID. Alternatively, I suppose UA could have heard back from a Chicago area corporate client that's still doing a lot of travel (maybe Abbott Laboratories or something?) that they are willing to support a direct service to Israel. Either way, interesting development.


I agree. Same thing with the LAX-SAL/GUA adds that got buried in press releases and didn't get much attention. These have been cargo routes and are adding passengers next month.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:44 am

codc10 wrote:
Thinking about AA's LAX changes today, can you imagine if United announced something similar? There would be a complete meltdown!

atrude777 wrote:
Awesome news for us at United!

Is 3rd of August the date the schedule goes into effect?

I am in Shares, and using 3AUG and it's still showing the old schedule...

Alex


Probably will be filed this weekend with the usual schedule update.

toga998 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
If UA wants to be moderately aggressive they can really put up a fight in LA now that AA is pulling down a lot.

After stripping the 787 from LAX it will be interesting to see how UA reacts internationally to AA's downsizing. Kirby is in no way interested in burning cash, more now than ever, so LAX might not be the apple of his eye for now.



I certainly don't think UA will add any LAX longhaul for now, and its LAX-PVG was driven primarily by corporate contract (Disney, IIRC), so that has a chance of staying. AA appears to be committed to the remaining LAX longhaul markets, which compete with UAL (TYO, SYD, LHR).


The remaining AA intercontinental routes from LAX (TYO, SYD, LHR, and seasonally to AKL) remain as they are JV / Hub to Hub Routes. AA has been flying LAX-LHR since the TWA route acquisition in 1991. SYD is QF JV, as is TYO with JL. AKL is also a QF JV route. I don't see UA adding anything at LAX on the international front. LHR, SYD, NRT will likely remain. MEL may end up consolidating at SFO and flown with greater frequency if resumed. PVG is corporate traffic yes, and if AA exits and moves the LAX to PVG route to SEA successfully, or just exists PVG entirely, that's one less competitor in what was a crowded field, so UA will potentially remain.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:15 am

Clearly cargo driven. Australia might not open will sometime in 2021 for foreign visitors, while its unknown when Israel will allow non residents in.
I fly your boxes
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:08 am

I think the biggest takeaway from this is LAX-SYD returning in September. Hope remains for the hub.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:40 am

According to the schedule, IAH-SYD returns on 23 October.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:53 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
The remaining AA intercontinental routes from LAX (TYO, SYD, LHR, and seasonally to AKL) remain as they are JV / Hub to Hub Routes. AA has been flying LAX-LHR since the TWA route acquisition in 1991. SYD is QF JV, as is TYO with JL. AKL is also a QF JV route. I don't see UA adding anything at LAX on the international front. LHR, SYD, NRT will likely remain. MEL may end up consolidating at SFO and flown with greater frequency if resumed. PVG is corporate traffic yes, and if AA exits and moves the LAX to PVG route to SEA successfully, or just exists PVG entirely, that's one less competitor in what was a crowded field, so UA will potentially remain.



In this weeks OAG report UA is showing LAX-PVG returning in October although the flight looks to be weekly instead of daily which is to be expected seeing that corporate traffic is down.

I think by summer 2021 UA's long haul schedule from LAX should include SYD, LHR, PVG, NRT, HND, and perhaps MEL. The big unanswered question at this time is will UA move our MEL flight to SFO and operate it daily out of SFO.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:25 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
According to the schedule, IAH-SYD returns on 23 October.


United’s entire schedule is for sale. They adjust the schedule 6 weeks out. IAH - SYD will be one of the last routes to return.
 
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mercure1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:35 am

Keep in mind Australia likely will remain closed for foreign visitors until mid 2021 based on latest information so these schedules won’t be carrying much if anything in the passenger cabin.
mercure f-wtcc
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:57 am

jayunited wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The remaining AA intercontinental routes from LAX (TYO, SYD, LHR, and seasonally to AKL) remain as they are JV / Hub to Hub Routes. AA has been flying LAX-LHR since the TWA route acquisition in 1991. SYD is QF JV, as is TYO with JL. AKL is also a QF JV route. I don't see UA adding anything at LAX on the international front. LHR, SYD, NRT will likely remain. MEL may end up consolidating at SFO and flown with greater frequency if resumed. PVG is corporate traffic yes, and if AA exits and moves the LAX to PVG route to SEA successfully, or just exists PVG entirely, that's one less competitor in what was a crowded field, so UA will potentially remain.



In this weeks OAG report UA is showing LAX-PVG returning in October although the flight looks to be weekly instead of daily which is to be expected seeing that corporate traffic is down.

I think by summer 2021 UA's long haul schedule from LAX should include SYD, LHR, PVG, NRT, HND, and perhaps MEL. The big unanswered question at this time is will UA move our MEL flight to SFO and operate it daily out of SFO.


That's their full long haul schedule prior to the shutdown. Which of the United LAX long-haul intl routes were doing well and which were not?
 
Cointrin330
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:29 am

jayunited wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The remaining AA intercontinental routes from LAX (TYO, SYD, LHR, and seasonally to AKL) remain as they are JV / Hub to Hub Routes. AA has been flying LAX-LHR since the TWA route acquisition in 1991. SYD is QF JV, as is TYO with JL. AKL is also a QF JV route. I don't see UA adding anything at LAX on the international front. LHR, SYD, NRT will likely remain. MEL may end up consolidating at SFO and flown with greater frequency if resumed. PVG is corporate traffic yes, and if AA exits and moves the LAX to PVG route to SEA successfully, or just exists PVG entirely, that's one less competitor in what was a crowded field, so UA will potentially remain.



In this weeks OAG report UA is showing LAX-PVG returning in October although the flight looks to be weekly instead of daily which is to be expected seeing that corporate traffic is down.

I think by summer 2021 UA's long haul schedule from LAX should include SYD, LHR, PVG, NRT, HND, and perhaps MEL. The big unanswered question at this time is will UA move our MEL flight to SFO and operate it daily out of SFO.


MEL is an interesting one. If UA consolidates the Melbourne service to SFO, they will compete directly with QF, which they do already on SYD, although not right now, as QF is not flying overseas. At LAX, if and when MEL resumes, it will be about the same in terms of competitive dynamic, since Virgin Australia is in reorganization and off the market so perhaps a split operation by UA between LAX and SFO to MEL will remain in place. Not sure about HND. Did UA get a slot for it?
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:30 pm

I would be very surprised if UA's pre-COVID LAX LH international schedule comes back in tact. I remember Kirby said that they closed the widebody bases because he doesn't see LH flying out of there anytime soon. Or something to that affect. It shouldn't have really surprised anyone that AA would cut back on LAX, so I'm surprised that UA management was caught off guard by that. Keep in mind with AS partnership, OW carriers would still be the largest force at LAX. By next summer, UA would be much smaller vs pre-COVID and international demand will still be very low. I can't see NRT or MEL coming back at all. I think it would be crazy to bring PVG back. Given AS's expected cuts at SFO, UA's best bet is to bring back its SFO hub to full capacity first. Duking it out at LAX seems to be very unwise.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:22 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
According to the schedule, IAH-SYD returns on 23 October.


Anything past September is pretty well useless in the schedule.

Id be surprised if IAH-SYD returns until 2019 levels return.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
kiowa
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United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:54 pm

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/unite ... ber-634144

There was another thread on this but it seems to have been deleted. I think this is great news but I am not sure what a "direct charter route" is. Is it for sale to the general public?
 
Ishrion
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Re: United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:04 pm

kiowa wrote:
There was another thread on this but it seems to have been deleted.


It was consolidated into the United Fleet/Network thread.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:12 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
MEL is an interesting one. If UA consolidates the Melbourne service to SFO, they will compete directly with QF, which they do already on SYD, although not right now, as QF is not flying overseas. At LAX, if and when MEL resumes, it will be about the same in terms of competitive dynamic, since Virgin Australia is in reorganization and off the market so perhaps a split operation by UA between LAX and SFO to MEL will remain in place. Not sure about HND. Did UA get a slot for it?



UA was awarded EWR, IAD, ORD and LAX back in 2019. The plan was LAX and EWR would serve both NRT and HND, while ORD and IAD would shift over to HND service only. As far as I know that is still the plan I just haven't heard when UA intends to launch EWR, LAX, and IAD - HND service. Of course I'm not expecting any of those announcements to come any time soon but at the same time I do know UA is not walking away from HND or Tokyo in general.

tphuang wrote:
I would be very surprised if UA's pre-COVID LAX LH international schedule comes back in tact. I remember Kirby said that they closed the widebody bases because he doesn't see LH flying out of there anytime soon. Or something to that affect. It shouldn't have really surprised anyone that AA would cut back on LAX, so I'm surprised that UA management was caught off guard by that. Keep in mind with AS partnership, OW carriers would still be the largest force at LAX. By next summer, UA would be much smaller vs pre-COVID and international demand will still be very low. I can't see NRT or MEL coming back at all. I think it would be crazy to bring PVG back. Given AS's expected cuts at SFO, UA's best bet is to bring back its SFO hub to full capacity first. Duking it out at LAX seems to be very unwise.


The thing people keep getting wrong about UA at LAX is UA transitioned LAX into an O&D hub some years back. With the exception of LAX-MEL most of our international and domestic flights were filled with O&D passengers very few connectors. LAX-Tokyo is a huge O&D market UA is not walking away from this market and UA is not giving up a HND slot. LAX-PVG is set to resume in October although service is less than daily. I expect LAX-LHR will probably be back up and flying in time for IATA spring 2021 provided UA can get a dormancy extension. And even if we are denied an extension LHR slots are so valuable I don't see UA giving walking away from that slot. We know know LAX-SYD is coming back this fall at 3x weekly (AA isn't resuming service until spring 2021). LAX-SYD is an interesting route because this route clearly suffered when UA launched IAH-SYD. IAH-SYD O&D market is minuscule compared to LAX-SYD so UA pushed a ton of connections from the Atlantic to the Rockies through IAH. But it wasn't all bad news, yields out of IAH were much better than they were out of LAX where at one point roundtrip coach tickets cost less than $700 dollars. Whereas through IAH even on a connecting flight ticket prices were over $1100 dollars in coach. If UA has decided to bring back one of its weakest performers (LAX-SYD) then NRT, PVG, and LHR all of which were much stronger performers will be back in time. The difference is those routes depended more heavily on corporate O&D travel while SYD and MEL catered to more leisure travelers. LAX-MEL was probably around 65% connectors 35% O&D which isn't great but we were competing against QF and VA. When UA launched SFO-MEL we still pushed most of the connecting traffic through LAX especially during the busy season(December-February) when we were running LAX-MEL daily and SFO-MEL 3x weekly. It is my understanding yields were much higher out of SFO. In fact before COVID SFO-MEL was slated to resume in late October of this year although now that probably isn't going to happen. I think the earliest we will see UA return to MEL will be October 2021 and I'm not convinced LAX-MEL will come back I think UA may move the route to SFO and make it daily year round.

People have taken the base closure to mean UA is totally walking away from long haul flights out of LAX and that simply isn't true. Lastly people really have to stop comparing AA to UA that was another issue made clear on the call yesterday stop comparing UA to AA and instead try to understand that these are two completely different airlines with completely different networks. Even UA employees (myself included) continue to make that mistake and we have to stop and learn to look at each airline separately. While UA may not be looking to capitalize on AA's slight reduction at LAX it doesn't mean UA is throwing in the towel on international long haul service from LAX either. In my opinion it does seem like UA was caught off guard by AA's moves at LAX and it does seem like UA has a solid plan for every hub expect LAX, one thing that was made clear is LAX remains a UA hub and an important part in our network.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:32 pm

Wasn't the LAX787 domicile closure put on (temporary?) hold? Or am I thinking about ORD?
 
kiowa
Posts: 762
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Re: United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:33 pm

Sounds like it was buried. It deserves it's own thread as much as American changing terminals in LHR. Any idea if we will be able to book tickets on it?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2956
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Re: United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:41 pm

kiowa wrote:
Sounds like it was buried. It deserves it's own thread as much as American changing terminals in LHR. Any idea if we will be able to book tickets on it?


Agreed. Quite notable given it’s a new long-haul route during COVID.

And yes, it should be available for booking some time soon.

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