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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:37 pm

alfa164 wrote:
October 1st... barely one month before the elections in the USA. I would be willing to bet the Washington politicians all come up with another airline bail-out agreement before that deadline.



I wouldn't bet on that if I were you, even with a presidential election a little over a month away I think come October 1st airlines are on their own. The reason I've changed by position is because most businesses whose business existed to support the airline industry have already laid off the necessary employees. Think about it and I'll just use catering operations or the flight kitchens as an example, airlines have already scaled down their operations in terms of onboard service. From coast to coast tens of thousands of kitchen employees who cater flights for both domestic and international carriers have already been let go. I think come October there will probably be 100,000-120,000 airlines employees here in the US out of a job, but employees in the supporting roles have already been let go. I don't see Trump and the Republican controlled Senate doing another bail-out because it will only delay the inevitable. Also I don't think airlines want more CARES Act because the first CARES Act didn't cover 100% of the payroll. Take United as an example our CARES Act funds were more than a billion dollars short of covering 100% of the payroll for these 6 months. I think they want they want to get this over with so they can begin moving forward with the recovery.

I hope to see UA's numbers come down (36,000 is a lot and I know it is worst case scenario) but with UA saying we may hold capacity around 35%-40% for the remainder of the year, I think it is becoming clear that by summer 2020 we may be back around 65%-70% of pre-COVID.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:00 pm

I’m hearing all HKG routes are gone. Anyone have any clarity on this?
 
Ishrion
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:10 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I’m hearing all HKG routes are gone. Anyone have any clarity on this?


Not much more info, but something like this: https://twitter.com/UAL756/status/1280963067258507265
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:24 pm

From today's 8-K filing:

The COVID-19 pandemic is an act of nature and is a circumstance beyond the Company's control, which is further compounded by governmental restrictions on travel and stay-at-home orders that have substantially reduced bookings and the demand for airline travel, resulting in the temporary grounding of a substantial number of the Company's aircraft.

That's how lawyers start to craft an argument for force majeure.

This, too, is ominous:

At this time, the Company is unable to in good faith make a determination of an estimate or range of estimates required by paragraphs (b), (c) and (d) of
Item 2.05 of Form 8-K with respect to workforce reduction actions in the remainder of 2020. The Company will file an amendment to this report after it
makes a determination of such estimate or range of estimates.


An estimate of year-end headcount was required by the enabling legislation for the round of loans that Treasury announced had been approved for UA and other carriers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html
 
kiowa
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Re: United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:49 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Not a charter but this is being launched primarily for cargo demand. UA will offer passenger tickets though. Same with LAXSYD early relaunch and ORDHKG. Passenger demand isn’t great but they flights can be profitable as cargo services.


I wonder if the ord/hkg will be dumped again with the chaos in Hkg escalating.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:08 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I’m hearing all HKG routes are gone. Anyone have any clarity on this?


Not much more info, but something like this: https://twitter.com/UAL756/status/1280963067258507265



Not a lot of information available internally either but UA today has canceled all HKG flights both passenger and cargo. The only thing I could find internally was flights canceled do to a change in COVID restrictions implemented at HKG. Based on what was posted on twitter it seems like China is taking more control of Hong Kong and is now requiring all inbound flight crews to be tested by Chinese officials. If what was posted on twitter is correct both ALPA and UA have made the right decision, it will be interesting to see what UA comes up with because Hong Kong is one of our most profitable cargo charter flights.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:28 pm

Nothing to do with China. HKG airport since back in April has performed antigen test used to detect the presence of Covid19. From what I gather union has recommended pilots decline what they believe is a too invasive test (a throat saliva sample).
I fly your boxes
 
Kbud
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Re: United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:48 pm

kiowa wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Not a charter but this is being launched primarily for cargo demand. UA will offer passenger tickets though. Same with LAXSYD early relaunch and ORDHKG. Passenger demand isn’t great but they flights can be profitable as cargo services.


I wonder if the ord/hkg will be dumped again with the chaos in Hkg escalating.

I think this is more cargo than passenger driven. If it was solely passenger driven it wouldn’t be on UA’s largest plane (77W) and only one flight per week.
 
ORD Boy 2
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Re: United plans Chicago to Tel Aviv

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:01 am

 
StinkyPinky
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:09 am

Ouch. Apparently the the most senior FA to receive a WARN notice has a DOH Nov 9th, 1996.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:53 am

jayunited wrote:
I wouldn't bet on that if I were you, even with a presidential election a little over a month away I think come October 1st airlines are on their own. The reason I've changed by position is because most businesses whose business existed to support the airline industry have already laid off the necessary employees. Think about it and I'll just use catering operations or the flight kitchens as an example, airlines have already scaled down their operations in terms of onboard service. From coast to coast tens of thousands of kitchen employees who cater flights for both domestic and international carriers have already been let go. I think come October there will probably be 100,000-120,000 airlines employees here in the US out of a job, but employees in the supporting roles have already been let go. I don't see Trump and the Republican controlled Senate doing another bail-out because it will only delay the inevitable. Also I don't think airlines want more CARES Act because the first CARES Act didn't cover 100% of the payroll. Take United as an example our CARES Act funds were more than a billion dollars short of covering 100% of the payroll for these 6 months. I think they want they want to get this over with so they can begin moving forward with the recovery.

I hope to see UA's numbers come down (36,000 is a lot and I know it is worst case scenario) but with UA saying we may hold capacity around 35%-40% for the remainder of the year, I think it is becoming clear that by summer 2020 we may be back around 65%-70% of pre-COVID.

I agree. There will certainly be considerations for November in mind, but ultimately airlines can only kick the can so far down the road. Some airlines may try to stave off the inevitable for as long as possible, but it appears that United is taking the more rational approach (albeit potentially more pessimistic). At this point, airlines need to be more concerned about their basic survival and positioning themselves competitively on the other side of this. United, Delta, Southwest, and others seem to be taking a more reasoned approach, while American seems content with bleeding themselves into bankruptcy. If there is more taxpayer money offered, and that's a big "if", the strings attached likely won't make it worth it for most airlines. They will have to pay back a decent portion of this money, so increasing their debt while continuing to hemorrhage for the next months (or maybe even years — there's no known timeline or comparable precedent for this) is not putting them in a strong financial position. This is an extreme position coming from United, but this is an extreme situation. We all feel for the likely hundreds of thousands of aviation brothers and sisters all over the world who will have their livelihoods dramatically derailed by this crisis, but airlines need to act quickly to save what they can so that there will be a future again. I hate to say it, but I'm not even sure we've seen rock bottom yet, and airlines need to be prepared for that.
 
CRJ5000
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:25 am

With nearly every industry decimated with no end in sight, I don't see how the government can throw more money at the airlines.
Yes, it's an election year, however the 99% of people who aren't in aviation are generally VERY put off by corporate bailouts, and for the most part have a very negative view of airlines in the first place. Go read comments on news articles, social media, etc regarding the airline portion of the CARES act and payroll protection grants. Nearly all of them are opposed. Would you really want to bailout the industry again a month before the election to appease 1% and alienate the other 99%?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:56 am

I think there will be an overall stimulus package that will help with unemployment. I don't think the airlines, or any corporations for that matter, will be receiving checks. Besides - the airlines probably don't want any more strings attached.
 
ericm2031
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:28 am

I don't think another bailout will happen or should happen. If it were to happen, it needs to have long term strings attached, similar to what banks go through. Clearly more cash on hand/access to liquidity would be for starters. But that would be tough for airlines to accept and I don't see that happening unless this really gets bad and bankruptcies become a real threat.
 
alfa164
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:01 am

UPlog wrote:
Nothing to do with China. HKG airport since back in April has performed antigen test used to detect the presence of Covid19. From what I gather union has recommended pilots decline what they believe is a too invasive test (a throat saliva sample).


Both United and American are halting flights over the new testing procedure:

"Hong Kong’s Centre for Health Protection has said that as of Wednesday, incoming crews will be subject to the collection of “deep throat saliva specimens,” and any person refusing to be tested will be subject to a fine and imprisonment. If a crew member tests positive, “hospital admission will be arranged as soon as possible.”
American is halting flights to Hong Kong until Aug. 5 because of the requirements, according to an email the leadership of the Allied Pilots Association union sent to its membership.

"In a statement, United said a flight between San Francisco and Hong Kong that had been scheduled for Wednesday was canceled because of “recent changes in testing protocol” at Hong Kong International Airport. It added that “United flights to and from HKG are suspended through July 10 westbound and their corresponding returns. We are currently assessing how this impacts our future operations.”

"Earlier this week, United said it planned to resume service between Chicago and Hong Kong starting in September."



https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/0 ... ong-353982
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MKIAZ
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:08 am

CRJ5000 wrote:
With nearly every industry decimated with no end in sight, I don't see how the government can throw more money at the airlines.
Yes, it's an election year, however the 99% of people who aren't in aviation are generally VERY put off by corporate bailouts, and for the most part have a very negative view of airlines in the first place. Go read comments on news articles, social media, etc regarding the airline portion of the CARES act and payroll protection grants. Nearly all of them are opposed. Would you really want to bailout the industry again a month before the election to appease 1% and alienate the other 99%?


The white house has had tons of meetings with the airline execs. Any way you slice it, it isn't good. If the airlines knew they were going to get another round of bailouts, then AA wouldn't have raised the debt at 12%... or possibly even worse, they couldn't survive until the next round of bailouts without the funding. Either scenario isn't good.

My thinking is everyone knows there will be no more bailouts for airlines. When this round of bailouts came through everything was crashing hard. Now the Nasdaq is at all time highs.
 
LGeneReese
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:35 am

Meanwhile.......
789
N24980 B2 BOE355 CHSCHS 2Jul20
I am fairly certain there is no rush to deliver this aircraft.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:41 am

Deal between UA and ALPA to help reduce pilot workforce.

"Today, I am able to report we have reached two Tentative Agreements - one for Voluntary Furloughs and COLAs, and one for a Pilot Voluntary Separation Leave (Early Out) program. The MEC will consider these Tentative Agreements at the July meeting next week."

United, pilots union reach tentative agreements for early retirements and voluntary furloughs
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/united- ... oughs.html
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:38 pm

United Airlines bonds downgraded deeper into junk by S&P

S&P Global Ratings late Thursday downgraded United Airlines Holdings Inc. debt, saying it expects the airline to generate "substantial cash flow deficit," thanks to a "steep decline" in bookings due to the COVID-19 pandemic. United is taking several steps to offset the fewer bookings, but these will not be enough, it said.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/unite ... 2020-07-09
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United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:45 pm

LAXintl wrote:
United Airlines bonds downgraded deeper into junk by S&P

S&P Global Ratings late Thursday downgraded United Airlines Holdings Inc. debt, saying it expects the airline to generate "substantial cash flow deficit," thanks to a "steep decline" in bookings due to the COVID-19 pandemic. United is taking several steps to offset the fewer bookings, but these will not be enough, it said.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/unite ... 2020-07-09


Not a surprise but at least S&P is expecting UA to start generating cash next year so things seem to be going according to UA's plan.
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:27 pm

Due to "changing competitive environment in LAX" (read AA), UA has cancelled closure of 787 base at LAX planned for October.
Will now keep albeit smaller base with 75 pilots open.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:54 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Due to "changing competitive environment in LAX" (read AA), UA has cancelled closure of 787 base at LAX planned for October.
Will now keep albeit smaller base with 75 pilots open.


I believe it had 80 pilots before this? This is a very good sign though. Would be nice to see LAX-TLV down the road...
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:03 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Due to "changing competitive environment in LAX" (read AA), UA has cancelled closure of 787 base at LAX planned for October.
Will now keep albeit smaller base with 75 pilots open.


I believe it had 80 pilots before this? This is a very good sign though. Would be nice to see LAX-TLV down the road...


Had a lot more than that. It had 80 CAs alone.
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:10 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Due to "changing competitive environment in LAX" (read AA), UA has cancelled closure of 787 base at LAX planned for October.
Will now keep albeit smaller base with 75 pilots open.


I believe it had 80 pilots before this? This is a very good sign though. Would be nice to see LAX-TLV down the road...


Had a lot more than that. It had 80 CAs alone.


There were 80 CA and 180 FO's affected when UA announced the closure of the 787 and 756 bases at LAX. I don't know what the split was between the two types.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:03 pm

United1 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

I believe it had 80 pilots before this? This is a very good sign though. Would be nice to see LAX-TLV down the road...


Had a lot more than that. It had 80 CAs alone.


There were 80 CA and 180 FO's affected when UA announced the closure of the 787 and 756 bases at LAX. I don't know what the split was between the two types.


Since most UA pilots have seen this internal message I guess it is okay for me to comment on it. The other part of the letter that LAXintl left out did concern the 757 and 767 fleet types. What was said and I'll paraphrase was while the 757-200, and 757-300s remain active in the fleet their missions are evolving away from earlier expectations in May. The 767-300 is the only sub-fleet forecast to fly over the foreseeable future.

Like United1 stated I don't know the break down how many pilots based at LAX were 787 or 756, it is obvious the base will be smaller but we do know for sure is 75 787 pilots will remain based at LAX. Also this letter makes it seem like the some 757-2/3s will remain active but who knows for how long, while the 767-300s future seems to be secure for now.
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:20 pm

United1 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

I believe it had 80 pilots before this? This is a very good sign though. Would be nice to see LAX-TLV down the road...


Had a lot more than that. It had 80 CAs alone.


There were 80 CA and 180 FO's affected when UA announced the closure of the 787 and 756 bases at LAX. I don't know what the split was between the two types.

On the original displacement/ closure there were 80 Captains and 179 F/O’s on the 787 in LAX. The 756 had 85 Captains and 81 F/O’s. So now LAX 787 will have 25 Captains and 50 F/O’s. The 756 base remains closed.
 
danipawa
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:30 am

Airbus A319 -111 2370 G-EZMK easyJet ferried 10jul20 BRS-QLA prior return to lessor (+ 2353 G-EZEY LPL-QLA) ex HB-JZM
Airbus A319 -111 2677 G-EZAA easyJet ferried 10jul20 SEN-QLA, for United Airlines as N5307U ex D-AVYU
Airbus A319 -111 4425 G-EZFZ easyJet ferried 03jul2 SEN-SOF prior return to lessor ex D-AVXL

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:26 am

jayunited wrote:
United1 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Had a lot more than that. It had 80 CAs alone.


There were 80 CA and 180 FO's affected when UA announced the closure of the 787 and 756 bases at LAX. I don't know what the split was between the two types.


Since most UA pilots have seen this internal message I guess it is okay for me to comment on it. The other part of the letter that LAXintl left out did concern the 757 and 767 fleet types. What was said and I'll paraphrase was while the 757-200, and 757-300s remain active in the fleet their missions are evolving away from earlier expectations in May. The 767-300 is the only sub-fleet forecast to fly over the foreseeable future.


Meaning the 757s are headed back to storage? As you know they’ve been flying a fair amount lately, certainly more so than the 0 we saw in May...
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:28 pm

codc10 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United1 wrote:

There were 80 CA and 180 FO's affected when UA announced the closure of the 787 and 756 bases at LAX. I don't know what the split was between the two types.


Since most UA pilots have seen this internal message I guess it is okay for me to comment on it. The other part of the letter that LAXintl left out did concern the 757 and 767 fleet types. What was said and I'll paraphrase was while the 757-200, and 757-300s remain active in the fleet their missions are evolving away from earlier expectations in May. The 767-300 is the only sub-fleet forecast to fly over the foreseeable future.


Meaning the 757s are headed back to storage? As you know they’ve been flying a fair amount lately, certainly more so than the 0 we saw in May...


The way that verbiage was written was weird in the update. I had to read a couple times but I think he meant to say in May we anticipated only the 767-300 flying in the immediate future but that has changed. The mission on the 757 is evolving.
 
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TheSpaceCadet
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:25 pm

What's the current status of UAL's 737-10 MAX order's / deliveries. Has the "-10" been even certified yet or is it pending?
 
quiet1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
AA94 wrote:
The resumption of 1x weekly ORD-HKG passenger service really threw me for a loop. UA operates daily cargo flights on this route I don't understand why we need to operate 1x weekly passengers flights. And to be honest I don't see passenger service sticking around on this route once cargo rates drop. Before COVID hit EWR-HKG was in trouble and had been reduced to 3x weekly.

(bolding above is mine, to indicate the part I'm going to discuss)

My understanding about the freighter activity spike we've seen is due to the lack of passenger flights that would have been carrying cargo. e.g. Without daily SFO-HKG and EWR-HKG passenger flights, there was a bunch of air cargo capacity lacking, so the startup of new cargo-only flights was merely filling that lack.

So, "if the cargo rates drop" wouldn't it be because of passenger flights returning to carry their usual cargo load? It would seem like UA is calculating the odds and slowly increasing passenger capacity (e.g. 1x weekly ORD-HKG) to balance the return of passenger traffic vs need for cargo-only flights.

Of course, the HKG example gets totally blown out of the water with the recent crew issues of Covid testing in HKG, but substitute TLV or PVG for HKG and the strategy would be similar, no?
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:06 pm

TheSpaceCadet wrote:
What's the current status of UAL's 737-10 MAX order's / deliveries. Has the "-10" been even certified yet or is it pending?


According to my notes/what I’ve heard, there’s currently one future UA 737MAX10 in final production, while there’s also another outside (the first ever 737MAX10, painted in Boeing colors). The 737MAX10 has not even had its first flight so it’s not certified.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:38 pm

UAX Update:

E175SC:
N610UX now flying with Skywest
Entire E175 Fleet is now back in Service

E170:
The following units returned back to flying: 633, 634, 642, 644, 648, 650, 651, 654, 656, 857, 863
Entire E170 Fleet is now back in Service

CR5:
The following units returned back to flying: 544, 545

E145:
N11551 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
N14558 exited Fleet, stored at IGM
 
AZORMP
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:56 pm

Quick question regarding the closure of UA/UAX stations:

Given the surge in cases as of late, have there been any plans as to when closed stations may reopen? I’ve been hearing from some now-former UGE employees at AZO that it’ll be October before they come back, but I (unsurprisingly) haven’t found anything public.
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:36 am

TheSpaceCadet wrote:
What's the current status of UAL's 737-10 MAX order's / deliveries. Has the "-10" been even certified yet or is it pending?



Before the grounding and now COVID the first MAX10 was supposed to be delivered in March of 2021. Since the MAX10 has not even flown or been certified I think it is safe to assume that delivery will not take place in March of 2021. Also as a result of COVID UA now will only take delivery of 40 MAXs in 2021, I'm not sure how many of those will be MAX10s. As far as the remaining Max order I'm not sure if UA deferred the remaining frames or canceled the outstanding order outright.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:41 pm

jayunited wrote:
TheSpaceCadet wrote:
What's the current status of UAL's 737-10 MAX order's / deliveries. Has the "-10" been even certified yet or is it pending?



Before the grounding and now COVID the first MAX10 was supposed to be delivered in March of 2021. Since the MAX10 has not even flown or been certified I think it is safe to assume that delivery will not take place in March of 2021. Also as a result of COVID UA now will only take delivery of 40 MAXs in 2021, I'm not sure how many of those will be MAX10s. As far as the remaining Max order I'm not sure if UA deferred the remaining frames or canceled the outstanding order outright.


Or is it Boeing’s production that is dictating the number of deliveries?
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:20 pm

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

There is also a post dedicated to keeping track of stored mainline aircraft.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
x1234
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Also I've been told the cargo market to HKG sometimes is transit cargo to SE Asia (SGN, HAN, BKK, KUL, SIN, CGK, DPS) as its the cheapest route (HND/NRT, PVG, PEK, CAN, ICN, TPE) are more expensive).
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:07 pm

There may be some public information put out about this in a few weeks, but internally I'm seeing UA is expecting (or being told) the FAA should be ready to re-certify the MAX sometime in October. United has received the latest training draft for the MAX but will not train pilots until they receive the final documents and the aircraft is re-certified. United is ferrying all 14 (delivered) MAX frames from GYR to MCO for upgrades and other maintenance related work after which they will be ferried back to GYR and placed back into storage. If the MAX is re-certified in October UA does not expect the MAX to return to revenue service until mid Q1 2021.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:12 am

787-8 Polaris/PE:
N28912 sked to exit XMN 2699/16Jul with Polaris/PP
5th unit in 28J/21PE/36E+/158Y configuration
 
na
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United AL 777 retirements

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:33 am

As UA (like the other US majors) have announced to shrink workforce and fleet due to Corona crisis I ask wether some frames (and which) out of their rather old 77A/77E fleet have already been permanently retired.
 
AA94
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Re: United AL 777 retirements

Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:04 am

The only aircraft UA has semi-officially retired is the PW 757 subfleet. While lots of aircraft remain parked, no other frames have been retired.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: United AL 777 retirements

Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:48 am

If further retirements are officially announced, it would stand to reason the 777-As, the 767-400ERs, and half the 767-300ERs will be the first to be retired, along with the oldest 737-800s, and maybe some of the A320 and A319s. The 777-As are primarily used for West Coast-Hawaii, transcontinental, and a few hub to hub routes (all pre-COVID of course). The 767-400ERs (all 16) have not been refurbished to the new Polaris cabin. These birds were built and delivered to CO from 1999 to 2002. The non-refurbed 763s and likely a few of the Polaris'd ones could also go and some of the oldest 777-200s as well, perhaps those that have not been updated to the new cabin standard, which would result in some leaving from the legacy UA and CO fleets. UA has indicated the future of its long haul fleet will be focused around the 787. I could also see them put some of the 77W's in long term storage but not phase those out. The A319/A320 fleet largely dates back to a 1992 order, though some A319's were built and delivered in 2002-3 and a few more recently acquired from a Chinese airline. I'd also think half the 737-700 fleet, if not all of it, could also go.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United AL 777 retirements

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:17 pm

na wrote:
As UA (like the other US majors) have announced to shrink workforce and fleet due to Corona crisis I ask wether some frames (and which) out of their rather old 77A/77E fleet have already been permanently retired.

Your question has been moved into the United Fleet discussion thread.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:50 pm

I'm sure the 77Ws aren't going anywhere. Beast of an aircraft with range and lift. Newest non 787s in WB fleet.

If you are talking potential retirements, something to review:
Oldest aircraft are
763s and 320s built prior to 1995
Lots of units from 1995 to 1999 - WB 55, NB 144

Most discussed about leaving fleet
7 Non-Polaris 763s and entire fleet of Non-Polaris 764s
772A
752 PW fleet of 11
739A fleet of 12
Older Airbus and 737 aircraft

WB (Ranked by oldest first) - 787s and 77Ws should all be staying
763: 21 of 38 are 1995 or earlier build, only 8 newer than 2000, most have 2 versions of Polaris
772A: 13 of 21 are 1995/96 build, other 6 are 2000 build (could some be retired and replaced by 772ER units?)
772ER: PW: 19 are 1997/1999 build, rest are 2000-2002 build, Polaris complete except 1 domestic and 3 slated for domestic
772ER: GE: 14 of 22 are 1998/99, rest are 2 each 2000, 2002, 2007, 2010
764ER: might retire, different engines, none have Polaris, all 18 to 20 years old

NB (Ranked by oldest first) - 739ER/737MAX should all be staying
320: 21 of 97 are pre-1995 build, rest evenly spread from 1995 to 2002
752: PW engines is small fleet of 11, premium heavy/high ASM cost, 5 pre-1995 build, 6 1995-1999 build
752: RR in fleet of 40, 11 are 1994, all but last 3 are 1995-1999 build, international config
73G: all 40 are 1998/99 build - some might be needed for short field performance flights
738: 43 of 141 are 1998/99 build
319: 27 of 74 1997/99 build, newer units brought into fleet as used
739A: 12 non-ERs all 2001 build have been mentioned as possible fleet exits - performance limited, IAH sked not a real issue
753: all 21 units 2001 to 2004 build, some of last off the line (don't expect an exit unless 752RR fleet leaves, A321 to replace?)
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:37 pm

787-8 Polaris/PE:
N26910 sked to exit XMN 2698/18Jul with Polaris/PP
6th unit in 28J/21PE/36E+/158Y configuration
Do not see another 788 heading to XMN at this time.
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:31 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
787-8 Polaris/PE:
N26910 sked to exit XMN 2698/18Jul with Polaris/PP
6th unit in 28J/21PE/36E+/158Y configuration
Do not see another 788 heading to XMN at this time.



Yeah the reason those frames went through modification was because they were due for heavy maintenance and UA already had the ship sets in XMN, so it just made sense to do the modification at the same time.

Don't give up hope on UA finding the money to complete the modification on the remaining 788s. Just this week we learned construction will resume on UA's backup site in Arlington Heights, IL. All we know is UA found some money from somewhere and construction will resume later this month, UA expects to have the backup facility up and running by late Q1 or early Q2 2021 which will spell the end for our current backup facility in Elk Grove Village.
 
NoNonsense
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:12 am

f further retirements are officially announced, it would stand to reason the 777-As, the 767-400ERs, and half the 767-300ERs will be the first to be retired, along with the oldest 737-800s, and maybe some of the A320 and A319s. The 777-As are primarily used for West Coast-Hawaii, transcontinental, and a few hub to hub routes (all pre-COVID of course). The 767-400ERs (all 16) have not been refurbished to the new Polaris cabin. These birds were built and delivered to CO from 1999 to 2002. The non-refurbed 763s and likely a few of the Polaris'd ones could also go and some of the oldest 777-200s as well, perhaps those that have not been updated to the new cabin standard, which would result in some leaving from the legacy UA and CO fleets. UA has indicated the future of its long haul fleet will be focused around the 787. I could also see them put some of the 77W's in long term storage but not phase those out. The A319/A320 fleet largely dates back to a 1992 order, though some A319's were built and delivered in 2002-3 and a few more recently acquired from a Chinese airline. I'd also think half the 737-700 fleet, if not all of it, could also go.

that's a lot of unnecessary guessing and speculation !
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:25 am

ALPA today passed the two LOAs which offer early outs for those approaching retirement age(62 and above) and a voluntary furlough/COLA for the rest to help reduce the number of pilots that would be forced into an involuntary furlough come Oct.1st.

Lets see how many take the offers to help mitigate the impact on rest of pilot group.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:13 pm

319:
N874UA, Ex China Southern B-6021 exited XMN Induction 2703/16Jul, enroute SFO via NRT & ANC

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