Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8263
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:48 pm

NoNonsense wrote:
f further retirements are officially announced, it would stand to reason the 777-As, the 767-400ERs, and half the 767-300ERs will be the first to be retired, along with the oldest 737-800s, and maybe some of the A320 and A319s.


Retiring a few of many types doesn't really get you much in structural cost savings. The big $ is in retiring sub-types, or full types: it simplifies frame scheduling, it eliminates parts inventory, it eliminates a pilot work group (think of inefficiencies from small groups across multiple bases). The 757, 753, 767 and 764 all have a common type rating.

Now, if you forecast that demand is going to be depressed for years and you've got a dozen 27-year-old A320s it's pragmatic to recognize they have little value to the carrier. Send them to retirement early.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:41 pm

I know it has been a while but a fleet update came out this week and not much has changed, the last update showed the PW 752s retired, the remainder of the fleet still shows active or stored no further decisions have been made on retirements.

The one change that caught my attention was the MAX 9 update. United already took delivery of 14 MAX 9 frames before the grounding, and according to the update Boeing has another 13 MAX 9 frames ready for delivery for a total of 27 MAX 9s. With United previously stating they will only take delivery of 40 MAXs in 2021, what wasn't clear in the latest fleet update is if the remaining 13 MAX frames will be the MAX 10 variant.

With the grounding and now COVID the fleet updates don't come as often as they use to (which is to be expected), but hopefully soon there will be some clarity as it pertains to the fleet.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3226
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:10 pm

Jay, surely no shock and fullly expected, but has the PW 752 fleet officially retired? Is the document internal or available publicly?
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:28 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
Jay, surely no shock and fullly expected, but has the PW 752 fleet officially retired? Is the document internal or available publicly?


Internal only for now, I'm not sure why UA still has not publicly announced the retirement of the PW 752 fleet. This is the second fleet update that has come out showing this sub-fleet as retired.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2937
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:40 pm

jayunited wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
Jay, surely no shock and fullly expected, but has the PW 752 fleet officially retired? Is the document internal or available publicly?


Internal only for now, I'm not sure why UA still has not publicly announced the retirement of the PW 752 fleet. This is the second fleet update that has come out showing this sub-fleet as retired.


United will release its second quarter 2020 results next Tuesday, so I’m guessing we’ll hear about retirements around then.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:20 am

UAX Update:

CR5:
N503GJ parked at STL

CR2:
N909SW parked at TUS
N408AW returned to flying
N418AW returned to flying
N467AW returned to flying
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:21 am

N222UA is being pulled out of long term storage at ROW tonight (at least that is the plan), it is schedule to fly UA2719-18 ROW-IAD. I'm not exactly sure why UA is pulling this frame out of ROW, but keep in mind it was the first 77E to be reconfigured from the international IPTE layout, to domestic HD layout, with 32J and 330Y.
 
audidudi
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:18 am

jayunited wrote:
N222UA is being pulled out of long term storage at ROW tonight (at least that is the plan), it is schedule to fly UA2719-18 ROW-IAD. I'm not exactly sure why UA is pulling this frame out of ROW, but keep in mind it was the first 77E to be reconfigured from the international IPTE layout, to domestic HD layout, with 32J and 330Y.

It just took off at 20:14:

https://www.flightradar24.com/UAL2719/24fa0237
 
audidudi
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:22 pm

 
audidudi
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:46 pm

Latest ex-EZY A319 for UA, G-EZIW, ferried from LGW>SOF...will become N3303U:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZIW
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:13 am

audidudi wrote:
Latest ex-EZY A319 for UA, G-EZIW, ferried from LGW>SOF...will become N3303U:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZIW

Any info on if UA intends to proceed on this deal? Especially since these aircraft have CFM engines...
 
Chuska
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:26 am

As feared, it was announced on Jul 20 that the start date of Oct. 15 for FMN-DEN has been pushed back til Spring 2021. This is very similar to the arrangement SkyWest has to bring United Express service back to SMX (Santa Maria, CA). That service was due to start in June but was also pushed back til Spring 2021.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7096
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:10 am

DLASFlyer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.


Pretty amazing UA can support 8x daily DEN-DRO but DL doesn’t even do 1x SLC-DRO.


It probably helps UA that DEN-DRO is over a six hour drive through the Rockies in ideal weather; add in winter and that number becomes much larger. Even without the geography and weather potential, six hours is a long drive to the capital city - I'm sure that helps drive some of the demand.

Delta also historically hasn't been huge in the Southern part of the Mountain time zone as well. DEN and PHX have had good service, but pre-COVID, COS was only 2x/day CRJ-200, ASE was a 1x/CR7, ELP has been on and off and TUS hasn't had a ton of service. There really hasn't been any other service into Colorado, New Mexico or Arizona from Delta for as long as I can remember.

AA has grown quite a bit in this space too with them getting the PHX hub from the US merger and DFW being a good hub for Eastern flow from the Colorado/Arizona/New Mexico markets.
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4406
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:26 am

I noticed a few different domestic/regional widebody flights outside of hub-hub runs like LAS etc. for September...how reliable is that schedule at this point? What are some regional widebody routes penciled in so far?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2677
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:13 am

deltairlines wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.


Pretty amazing UA can support 8x daily DEN-DRO but DL doesn’t even do 1x SLC-DRO.


It probably helps UA that DEN-DRO is over a six hour drive through the Rockies in ideal weather; add in winter and that number becomes much larger. Even without the geography and weather potential, six hours is a long drive to the capital city - I'm sure that helps drive some of the demand.

Delta also historically hasn't been huge in the Southern part of the Mountain time zone as well. DEN and PHX have had good service, but pre-COVID, COS was only 2x/day CRJ-200, ASE was a 1x/CR7, ELP has been on and off and TUS hasn't had a ton of service. There really hasn't been any other service into Colorado, New Mexico or Arizona from Delta for as long as I can remember.

AA has grown quite a bit in this space too with them getting the PHX hub from the US merger and DFW being a good hub for Eastern flow from the Colorado/Arizona/New Mexico markets.


ABQ has been 3 daily to SLC previous summers. Before COVID this year’s summer schedule was x1 A319 and x2 E175. They also had planned x3 E175 to LAX, x3 A321 to ATL, and x1 A320 to MSP.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7096
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:08 am

Alias1024 wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:

Pretty amazing UA can support 8x daily DEN-DRO but DL doesn’t even do 1x SLC-DRO.


It probably helps UA that DEN-DRO is over a six hour drive through the Rockies in ideal weather; add in winter and that number becomes much larger. Even without the geography and weather potential, six hours is a long drive to the capital city - I'm sure that helps drive some of the demand.

Delta also historically hasn't been huge in the Southern part of the Mountain time zone as well. DEN and PHX have had good service, but pre-COVID, COS was only 2x/day CRJ-200, ASE was a 1x/CR7, ELP has been on and off and TUS hasn't had a ton of service. There really hasn't been any other service into Colorado, New Mexico or Arizona from Delta for as long as I can remember.

AA has grown quite a bit in this space too with them getting the PHX hub from the US merger and DFW being a good hub for Eastern flow from the Colorado/Arizona/New Mexico markets.


ABQ has been 3 daily to SLC previous summers. Before COVID this year’s summer schedule was x1 A319 and x2 E175. They also had planned x3 E175 to LAX, x3 A321 to ATL, and x1 A320 to MSP.


I didn't realize SLC was that low. I knew ATL in the past has been a mix of MD-90/A32x/757 at 3x/day, MSP was off and on and LAX was relatively new, but thought SLC was 5x/day for some reason.

My first time ever to ABQ happened to be on a DL 757 diverted on ATL-LAS. We had a sick FA but were able to get a local FA to work the ABQ-LAS leg and we were on the ground for less than an hour.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:47 am

There are hardly in cultural ties or any major business ties connecting Utah and New Mexico.

Also I hope this route is a success and hopefully UA/OO look into adding more airports to DEN out west such as BTM, PVU, TWF, and LWS.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8263
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:09 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.



Also, yes that drive to DRO is a lure, which is about 70 minutes to DRO airport by the way, but we're really only talking about 1x CRJ-200 that is subsidized. The Farmington/Aztec/Bloomfield area does have its own decently-sized population, definitely no smaller than many other cities where SkyWest provides at-risk service.


One-a-day just doesn't compete well with 8 (or 7 or 6) a day. There's no choice of departure/arrival time. There's no fallback plan for weather. There's no fallback for IDB due to weight and balance (and DOT regs don't require compensation for IDB for weight and balance for aircraft with 60 or fewer seats). You give up a lot of hub connectivity with just 1x. DRO has two carriers so at least there's a little fare competition (and AA to DFW is another great hubbing option).

Why do people from northern Rhode Island drive to BOS (and put up with all the BS that is Logan) instead of flying from PVD? Non-stop destination count, frequency, and fare competition.
 
phxsanslcpdx
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Are they banking on demand from gas exploration? (It can't be coal.) Are they excited just to burn money thru the allowed FAA guarantee/subsidy period? I understand people may be happy to save the 50-mile drive to DRO, but DRO-DEN is showing 8x on an October Tuesday. Frequency to a hub has a lot of value.



Also, yes that drive to DRO is a lure, which is about 70 minutes to DRO airport by the way, but we're really only talking about 1x CRJ-200 that is subsidized. The Farmington/Aztec/Bloomfield area does have its own decently-sized population, definitely no smaller than many other cities where SkyWest provides at-risk service.


One-a-day just doesn't compete well with 8 (or 7 or 6) a day. There's no choice of departure/arrival time. There's no fallback plan for weather. There's no fallback for IDB due to weight and balance (and DOT regs don't require compensation for IDB for weight and balance for aircraft with 60 or fewer seats). You give up a lot of hub connectivity with just 1x. DRO has two carriers so at least there's a little fare competition (and AA to DFW is another great hubbing option).

Why do people from northern Rhode Island drive to BOS (and put up with all the BS that is Logan) instead of flying from PVD? Non-stop destination count, frequency, and fare competition.


Granted. But of course, DRO is no BOS. Farmington folks who want to fly to PHX or DFW or who value the higher frequency at DRO are likely to drive there, but there should also be some real demand for the added convenience of local flights.

Traffic for Window Rock/Fort Defiance/St. Michaels (which includes Dine College, Navajo Nation government, and BIA facilities) will help supplement demand at Farmington. ABQ will still carry the lion's share of Window Rock traffic, I'm sure. But if you have to change planes anyway, the shorter distance, lower hassle, and lack of traffic makes Farmington a compelling alternative.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:19 pm

I believe I am correct when I say this, during the 1990s and early 2000s Midwest and Great Lakes ran their Beech 1900s back and forth between FMN and DEN three to four times a day. Granted the oil exploration business was hopping then, but the demand will be there if the flights are scheduled right.

Frontier 14
 
N212R
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: United Express to return to Farmington, New Mexico

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:11 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
There are hardly in cultural ties or any major business ties connecting Utah and New Mexico.


Hardly any of the 70,000+ LDS members who live in NM have "cultural" ties to Utah? Or as Wikipedia says...

"Mormons first came to New Mexico in 1846. The LDS Church has traditionally had a strong presence in the Four Corners (Farmington) Region of New Mexico, settling the town of Kirtland and other surrounding areas."
 
audidudi
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:19 pm

Latest ex-EZY A319 for UA, G-EZAL, ferried from LGW>QLA today...will become N9312U.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GEZAL
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:00 pm

drerx7 wrote:
I noticed a few different domestic/regional widebody flights outside of hub-hub runs like LAS etc. for September...how reliable is that schedule at this point? What are some regional widebody routes penciled in so far?


The vast majority of the domestic schedule is only reliable through Labor Day right now, although widebodies might be scheduled farther out than the general schedule, not entirely sure.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:23 pm

jayunited wrote:
The response was UA is studying the proposed AA/B6 codeshare closely. If approved UA does expect regulators to require both airlines to give up valuable slots and gates at JFK. At which point UA fully intends to submit its application to snap up as many slots and gate as we can to get us back into JFK in a meaningful way.


Not to veer too far off the topic at hand but but I'm sure someone on here knows the answer.

It's been mentioned on a-net that "someone" returned 70 slots at JFK. Assuming this statement is true, whether it's 70 slots by one carrier or 70 slots from multiple carriers, but if these slots were returned to the Port Authority, wouldn't they be able to be picked up by anyone at any time....possibly for free? Gates are a whole other issue but I would think that if the Port Authority wanted to monetize these returned/unused slots, they would bend over backwards to make gates available somewhere on the airfield so that the carrier that acquires them can actually use them and pay the associated fees to the Port.

I snagged this snippet from another thread and thought this question might be better addressed in this thread.
 
United1
Posts: 4185
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:24 pm

drerx7 wrote:
I noticed a few different domestic/regional widebody flights outside of hub-hub runs like LAS etc. for September...how reliable is that schedule at this point? What are some regional widebody routes penciled in so far?


UA hasn't updated it's schedule past September 7th. Anything, domestic at least, past that point is the pre-Covid schedule.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
tphuang
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:35 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
jayunited wrote:
The response was UA is studying the proposed AA/B6 codeshare closely. If approved UA does expect regulators to require both airlines to give up valuable slots and gates at JFK. At which point UA fully intends to submit its application to snap up as many slots and gate as we can to get us back into JFK in a meaningful way.


Not to veer too far off the topic at hand but but I'm sure someone on here knows the answer.

It's been mentioned on a-net that "someone" returned 70 slots at JFK. Assuming this statement is true, whether it's 70 slots by one carrier or 70 slots from multiple carriers, but if these slots were returned to the Port Authority, wouldn't they be able to be picked up by anyone at any time....possibly for free? Gates are a whole other issue but I would think that if the Port Authority wanted to monetize these returned/unused slots, they would bend over backwards to make gates available somewhere on the airfield so that the carrier that acquires them can actually use them and pay the associated fees to the Port.

I snagged this snippet from another thread and thought this question might be better addressed in this thread.


There is going to be so many slots available at jfk next year. I am not sure why they need to wait for regulators? Who is going to be flying full schedule at JFK?
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:50 pm

tphuang wrote:

There is going to be so many slots available at jfk next year. I am not sure why they need to wait for regulators? Who is going to be flying full schedule at JFK?


There were slots available pre-COVID but they were all either early morning or late evening slots, from mid-morning through early evening there were no slots available.

Which brings up the question is JFK strict on the use it or loose it rule? I 100% agree no one will be flying a full schedule at JFK in 2021 but doesn't necessarily mean airlines will be forced to return those unused slots to JFK. Also if JFK does strictly enforce the use it or loose it rule there is nothing preventing an airline like B6 for example from requesting an exemption citing the coronavirus as the reason.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:58 am

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:

There is going to be so many slots available at jfk next year. I am not sure why they need to wait for regulators? Who is going to be flying full schedule at JFK?


There were slots available pre-COVID but they were all either early morning or late evening slots, from mid-morning through early evening there were no slots available.

Which brings up the question is JFK strict on the use it or loose it rule? I 100% agree no one will be flying a full schedule at JFK in 2021 but doesn't necessarily mean airlines will be forced to return those unused slots to JFK. Also if JFK does strictly enforce the use it or loose it rule there is nothing preventing an airline like B6 for example from requesting an exemption citing the coronavirus as the reason.


I would think it has the same rules as lga, at least 80% usage. And they both have slot waiver at the moment. Who knows how long that will last. All the lcc are eager for the lga waiver to end.

I am still under the belief that aa has already released a bunch of slots at jfk or done a smaller slot lease or sale with JetBlue already. I recall a few months ago spirit filed complaint about airlines at jfk not fully utilizing their slots. Which forced JetBlue to ramp up its pre covid summer schedule. United could certainly do the same here.

I think if United wants to go back into jfk, slots would not be the biggest concern. Being stuck in terminal 1, facing strong competition, low corporate demand and dl possibly retaliating on ewr lax would be bigger concerns.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:24 am

tphuang wrote:
jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:

There is going to be so many slots available at jfk next year. I am not sure why they need to wait for regulators? Who is going to be flying full schedule at JFK?


There were slots available pre-COVID but they were all either early morning or late evening slots, from mid-morning through early evening there were no slots available.

Which brings up the question is JFK strict on the use it or loose it rule? I 100% agree no one will be flying a full schedule at JFK in 2021 but doesn't necessarily mean airlines will be forced to return those unused slots to JFK. Also if JFK does strictly enforce the use it or loose it rule there is nothing preventing an airline like B6 for example from requesting an exemption citing the coronavirus as the reason.


I would think it has the same rules as lga, at least 80% usage. And they both have slot waiver at the moment. Who knows how long that will last. All the lcc are eager for the lga waiver to end.

I am still under the belief that aa has already released a bunch of slots at jfk or done a smaller slot lease or sale with JetBlue already. I recall a few months ago spirit filed complaint about airlines at jfk not fully utilizing their slots. Which forced JetBlue to ramp up its pre covid summer schedule. United could certainly do the same here.

I think if United wants to go back into jfk, slots would not be the biggest concern. Being stuck in terminal 1, facing strong competition, low corporate demand and dl possibly retaliating on ewr lax would be bigger concerns.


One thing to clear up with the NK lawsuit is that JFK is not involved. NK is actually suing the DOT regarding WN’s departure from EWR and where the slots went. United of course sided with the DOT to prevent delays and for other obvious reasons.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:54 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jayunited wrote:

There were slots available pre-COVID but they were all either early morning or late evening slots, from mid-morning through early evening there were no slots available.

Which brings up the question is JFK strict on the use it or loose it rule? I 100% agree no one will be flying a full schedule at JFK in 2021 but doesn't necessarily mean airlines will be forced to return those unused slots to JFK. Also if JFK does strictly enforce the use it or loose it rule there is nothing preventing an airline like B6 for example from requesting an exemption citing the coronavirus as the reason.


I would think it has the same rules as lga, at least 80% usage. And they both have slot waiver at the moment. Who knows how long that will last. All the lcc are eager for the lga waiver to end.

I am still under the belief that aa has already released a bunch of slots at jfk or done a smaller slot lease or sale with JetBlue already. I recall a few months ago spirit filed complaint about airlines at jfk not fully utilizing their slots. Which forced JetBlue to ramp up its pre covid summer schedule. United could certainly do the same here.

I think if United wants to go back into jfk, slots would not be the biggest concern. Being stuck in terminal 1, facing strong competition, low corporate demand and dl possibly retaliating on ewr lax would be bigger concerns.


One thing to clear up with the NK lawsuit is that JFK is not involved. NK is actually suing the DOT regarding WN’s departure from EWR and where the slots went. United of course sided with the DOT to prevent delays and for other obvious reasons.


No, there was apparently a separate complaint filed at Port Authority about carriers not using their all their slots (completely unrelated to EWR). As long as other airlines don't complain, I suspect PA will not force airlines to release slots. Although in this case, I think a bunch of slots have already been returned. Whether or not they work for UA is a different question altogether.
 
audidudi
Posts: 2396
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:57 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
319:
N874UA, Ex China Southern B-6021 exited XMN Induction 2703/16Jul, enroute SFO via NRT & ANC

And has now arrived at GYR after spending the last 6 days at SFO:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N874UA
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:25 am

audidudi wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
319:
N874UA, Ex China Southern B-6021 exited XMN Induction 2703/16Jul, enroute SFO via NRT & ANC

And has now arrived at GYR after spending the last 6 days at SFO:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N874UA

The UA interior is completely installed. All it will need is a paint job and it’s ready to go.... But for now it’s just going to sit at GYR for who knows how long....
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 3427
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:55 pm

This is unprecedented. Worse than 9/11.

CRJ5000 wrote:
With nearly every industry decimated with no end in sight, I don't see how the government can throw more money at the airlines.
Yes, it's an election year, however the 99% of people who aren't in aviation are generally VERY put off by corporate bailouts, and for the most part have a very negative view of airlines in the first place. Go read comments on news articles, social media, etc regarding the airline portion of the CARES act and payroll protection grants. Nearly all of them are opposed. Would you really want to bailout the industry again a month before the election to appease 1% and alienate the other 99%?


It's not 1%, it is over 7.5 %, and those are high paying jobs with a lot of mortgages, car payments........

Agree that bailouts are not the way to go, the government is printing money it doesn't have.......

" 2016, the total U.S. economy generated $18.6 trillion
in value-added economic activity and supported 144.3
million jobs
. At the same time, civil aviation directly or
indirectly supported:
• $1.8 trillion in total economic activity,
• 10.9 million jobs, and
• contributed 5.2 percent of U.S. gross domestic product (GDP). "
You are here.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:53 am

UAX Update:

CR5 Correction:
N541GJ parked at STL
N542GJ is flying
N503GJ returned to flying

CR2:
N408AW returned to flying
N418AW returned to flying
N470ZW returned to flying
N863AS returned to flying
 
airlineaddict
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:05 am

Any updates on the SFO - HKG - SIN restart? Maybe the better question is whether or not there have been any updates on HKG’s COVID testing requirements for crew members that would allow for the flights to restart?
 
UA857
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:23 am

I think UA should return to JFK once the 737 MAX 10 are delivered. Since UA has 100 737 MAX 10s on order with 50 of them being in Polaris-configuration that will replace both the 752 on the transcon UA could fly them out from SFO/LAX-JFK/EWR/BOS leaving the A321XLR to do the international 752´s job. As for Terminal space UA could use T7 after BA moves to T8.
 
United1
Posts: 4185
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:59 pm

UA857 wrote:
I think UA should return to JFK once the 737 MAX 10 are delivered. Since UA has 100 737 MAX 10s on order with 50 of them being in Polaris-configuration that will replace both the 752 on the transcon UA could fly them out from SFO/LAX-JFK/EWR/BOS leaving the A321XLR to do the international 752´s job. As for Terminal space UA could use T7 after BA moves to T8.


Supposedly T7 is being ripped down so T5 can be expanded. I don't know whether or not UA will re-enter JFK although there may be some opportunities too in the near future. The rest of what you wrote with the 737-10s taking over on transcontinental routes and the A321XLRs replacing 752s on international flights was UAs plan pre-Covid19 at least.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4406
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Thanks for the responses to my scheduling question... do yall know when the next schedule update will occur?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:51 am

airlineaddict wrote:
Any updates on the SFO - HKG - SIN restart? Maybe the better question is whether or not there have been any updates on HKG’s COVID testing requirements for crew members that would allow for the flights to restart?


Could there also be a possiblity that the stop before going to SIN could be changed from HKG? What I mean is could SFO-HKG-SIN be changed to something like SFO-ICN-SIN? Also, is there also a possibility for United to resume the nonstop(s) to SIN?
 
windy95
Posts: 2782
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:08 pm

UA857 wrote:
I think UA should return to JFK once the 737 MAX 10 are delivered. Since UA has 100 737 MAX 10s on order with 50 of them being in Polaris-configuration that will replace both the 752 on the transcon UA could fly them out from SFO/LAX-JFK/EWR/BOS leaving the A321XLR to do the international 752´s job. As for Terminal space UA could use T7 after BA moves to T8.


Since they are closing JFK totally as a MX base I would assume that there are no plans in the future to add flights into JFK
 
codc10
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:59 pm

windy95 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
I think UA should return to JFK once the 737 MAX 10 are delivered. Since UA has 100 737 MAX 10s on order with 50 of them being in Polaris-configuration that will replace both the 752 on the transcon UA could fly them out from SFO/LAX-JFK/EWR/BOS leaving the A321XLR to do the international 752´s job. As for Terminal space UA could use T7 after BA moves to T8.


Since they are closing JFK totally as a MX base I would assume that there are no plans in the future to add flights into JFK


Any other TechOps closures?
 
airmec7
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:09 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:15 pm

We was told in TechOps, that JFK is the only line base that will be closed. As it only takes care of 3rd party MX issues. We were also told that back shops in SFO could be closing, with the exception the landing gear & engine shops will remain open.

On the same call they said UA was looking at ways to get back into JFK. If we get slots back in JFK and reopen the line base. The MX that are displaced would be the 1st to get recalled before it’s opened up system wide for open positions.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:12 pm

windy95 wrote:
Since they are closing JFK totally as a MX base I would assume that there are no plans in the future to add flights into JFK


At JFK UA MX is a 3rd party vendor we have (had) contracts to perform maintenance for other airlines. Right now because of COVID there isn't a whole lot of work but the closing of the base has no bearing on UA's desire to get back into JFK with our own metal. United made it clear on the call and in the town hall that they want back in at JFK. Kirby and his team believes we can get back in, in a meaningful way (whatever that means in terms of routes) but for now United is waiting to see what becomes of this purposed AA/B6 codeshare and what the requisite fallout will be.

United is also talking about scaling back at SFO again another based where in addition to caring for UA aircraft they also provide maintenance to other airlines. I think if there is a scale down at SFO it would only be temporary for sure nothing permanent, but still no one likes to see things like this happening. But we have to keep in mind United Technical Operations has contracts with over 43 customers from around the world to perform maintenance here in the U.S. at places like JKF and SFO, and again the fallout from COVID has resulted less business with some airlines suspending operations to the U.S. completely. As much as I hate seeing this happen it isn't unexpected because the workload isn't there especially from those foreign carriers.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:06 am

jayunited wrote:
windy95 wrote:
Since they are closing JFK totally as a MX base I would assume that there are no plans in the future to add flights into JFK


At JFK UA MX is a 3rd party vendor we have (had) contracts to perform maintenance for other airlines. Right now because of COVID there isn't a whole lot of work but the closing of the base has no bearing on UA's desire to get back into JFK with our own metal. United made it clear on the call and in the town hall that they want back in at JFK. Kirby and his team believes we can get back in, in a meaningful way (whatever that means in terms of routes) but for now United is waiting to see what becomes of this purposed AA/B6 codeshare and what the requisite fallout will be.

United is also talking about scaling back at SFO again another based where in addition to caring for UA aircraft they also provide maintenance to other airlines. I think if there is a scale down at SFO it would only be temporary for sure nothing permanent, but still no one likes to see things like this happening. But we have to keep in mind United Technical Operations has contracts with over 43 customers from around the world to perform maintenance here in the U.S. at places like JKF and SFO, and again the fallout from COVID has resulted less business with some airlines suspending operations to the U.S. completely. As much as I hate seeing this happen it isn't unexpected because the workload isn't there especially from those foreign carriers.


Is Oakland still open?
 
United1
Posts: 4185
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:27 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
windy95 wrote:
Since they are closing JFK totally as a MX base I would assume that there are no plans in the future to add flights into JFK


At JFK UA MX is a 3rd party vendor we have (had) contracts to perform maintenance for other airlines. Right now because of COVID there isn't a whole lot of work but the closing of the base has no bearing on UA's desire to get back into JFK with our own metal. United made it clear on the call and in the town hall that they want back in at JFK. Kirby and his team believes we can get back in, in a meaningful way (whatever that means in terms of routes) but for now United is waiting to see what becomes of this purposed AA/B6 codeshare and what the requisite fallout will be.

United is also talking about scaling back at SFO again another based where in addition to caring for UA aircraft they also provide maintenance to other airlines. I think if there is a scale down at SFO it would only be temporary for sure nothing permanent, but still no one likes to see things like this happening. But we have to keep in mind United Technical Operations has contracts with over 43 customers from around the world to perform maintenance here in the U.S. at places like JKF and SFO, and again the fallout from COVID has resulted less business with some airlines suspending operations to the U.S. completely. As much as I hate seeing this happen it isn't unexpected because the workload isn't there especially from those foreign carriers.


Is Oakland still open?


OAK MTC was closed during UAs bankruptcy case.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
UA444
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:17 am

I just find it so, so satisfying seeing them actively and bluntly say they want back at JFK, when everyone here said it was the smartest, best thing they could’ve ever done and those that disagreed with it were harassed into oblivion. They don’t need JFK! They have EWR all to themselves and if you do this or go this way, you can get to lower Manhattan 3/10ths of a second faster from EWR! EWR is in New York! Then Scott Kirby enters the picture and on day 1 basically said they were brain dead for that decision.

Have they taken down their smug “JFK, you seem so distant” ads around NYC? Might want to take care of that before you go begging at the front door.
 
codc10
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:05 pm

UA444 wrote:
I just find it so, so satisfying seeing them actively and bluntly say they want back at JFK, when everyone here said it was the smartest, best thing they could’ve ever done and those that disagreed with it were harassed into oblivion. They don’t need JFK! They have EWR all to themselves and if you do this or go this way, you can get to lower Manhattan 3/10ths of a second faster from EWR! EWR is in New York! Then Scott Kirby enters the picture and on day 1 basically said they were brain dead for that decision.

Have they taken down their smug “JFK, you seem so distant” ads around NYC? Might want to take care of that before you go begging at the front door.


Schadenfreude?

UA isn’t trying to get back into JFK for the NYC-originating market... it’s been documented that the California point of sale (particularly LAX) suffered most from the EWR-exclusive move. Most in Manhattan are driven by airline loyalty for the EWR vs. JFK question, while those coming *to* New York exhibit a stronger preference for JFK (where LGA is not a viable option).

Of course, with COVID-19 and what will be a multi-year collapse in business travel, who knows whether there will be enough premium customers, paying premium fares, to justify another p.s.-style operation at JFK. I’d certainly welcome it, but there’s no doubt the virus has changed the Manhattan business landscape, in ways we probably haven’t fully realized yet.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:14 pm

UA444 wrote:
I just find it so, so satisfying seeing them actively and bluntly say they want back at JFK, when everyone here said it was the smartest, best thing they could’ve ever done and those that disagreed with it were harassed into oblivion. They don’t need JFK! They have EWR all to themselves and if you do this or go this way, you can get to lower Manhattan 3/10ths of a second faster from EWR! EWR is in New York! Then Scott Kirby enters the picture and on day 1 basically said they were brain dead for that decision.



Personally I still believe it was the right decision for UA at the time. You have to look at where UA was when the decision was made to leave JFK. We had a serious shortage of narrow bodies, the sCO 752 were still being heavily utilized on many TATL routes out of EWR with only a handful of spares sitting around. We still had the domestic 763s also known as the ghetto birds, premium customers flying into and out of EWR to both SFO and LAX were demanding the same level of service that customers were getting flying into and out of JFK instead of the hodgepodge of service which included just about every single narrowbody in UA fleet. And finally it was no secret that UA was loosing money at JFK and needed to stop the bleeding. The results of that decision speak for themselves, pre-COVID UA's EWR-SFO-EWR route was one of the top 5 most profitable routes in America and in the top 10 most profitable routes in the World, while LAX-EWR-LAX was one of the top 10 most profitable routes in America. UA went from a money loosing operation at both EWR and JFK and quickly turned EWR-SFO and EWR-LAX into some of our most profitable routes pre-COVID.

Kirby comes in and says it was a mistake and that is fine everyone is entitled to their opinion. But remember when Kirby joined UA we had more narrow bodies in the form of 739NGs, the ghetto birds had been reconfigured and refreshed nose to tail with included diamond lie flats seats and deployed on many TATL routes freeing up many of those valuable sCO 752s. The domestic 77HD fleet had grown from 5 frames to 19 frames freeing up even more narrow bodies. And finally premium service had expanded to UA's SFO-BOS-SFO route. A lot of things happened between the time UA left JFK and Kirbys arrival at UA.

The is no question the merger was screwed up from the beginning and mistakes were made. UA squandered opportunities, and wasted billions of dollars and perhaps Kirby would have handled things differently from the start of the merger if he were here. But by the time UA made the decision to leave JFK the train had already left the station and UA was loosing premium customers in New York City. This is especially true at JFK where UA was loosing corporate clients and business travelers in general to Kirby over at American Airlines. We can't forget about a surging and very dangerous Delta Airlines who went for UA's juggler on both the JFK-SFO and JFK-LAX routes. Standing and fighting AA and DL at JFK simply wasn't an option and UA didn't have the liquidity to stomach the losses. I can't tell you the number of corporate clients UA lost when Delta decided to offer for a limited time a status match through their Sky Miles program. That was probably one of the biggest f*** you's Delta gave United, and there was nothing UA could do about it because we didn't have the money or the aircraft to stand and fight, retreat to the relative safety of EWR was UA's only option.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3226
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:37 pm

The below story shows that UA and NZ have traded LHR slots with
UA dropping 11pm arvl, adding 1050am arrival
UA dropping 11:05pm dept, adding 320pm departure.
These would seem to be superior times, but does it mean the AM eastbound from IAD or EWR would be cancelled?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... p=12364828
 
jayunited
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:05 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
The below story shows that UA and NZ have traded LHR slots with
UA dropping 11pm arvl, adding 1050am arrival
UA dropping 11:05pm dept, adding 320pm departure.
These would seem to be superior times, but does it mean the AM eastbound from IAD or EWR would be cancelled?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... p=12364828


Pre-COVID I thought UA latest departure left LHR around 8:30PM heading to EWR? I also thought our AM departures from the US arrived at LHR around 9PM? I could be wrong but I don't remember an 11:05pm departure out of LHR or an 11pm arrival on UA.
Last edited by jayunited on Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos