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Max Q
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
UA intends to start more than 25 international routes in September.

ORD-TLV/AMS
IAH-AMS/FRA
SFO-MUC

ORD-FRA, SFO-LHR goes daily

LAX-SYD and ORD-HKG 3x weekly

BOM/DEL to restart.

SJU-ORD/IAD
EWR-STT

And many more Latin America restarts.

https://hub.united.com/2020-07-31-unite ... 51493.html



That’s good but how will these European routes work with American citizens currently barred from entry ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm

Max Q wrote:

That’s good but how will these European routes work with American citizens currently barred from entry ?


Keep in mind not ALL Americans are barred from entry into Europe, tourist are barred but essential travel is still allowed. How is essential travel defined I'm not 100% completely sure because it varies from country to country but if you can prove that you are traveling for essential reasons then you can enter Europe.

Secondly many these international routes UA is "restarting" have been operating as cargo only flights, and UA will continue to fill up the belly with cargo because so few passengers will be onboard.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:46 pm

I guess the passenger flights are good news.
Does this mean cargo demand may have dropped a bit to fit into the lower bins? I thought some of these flights were freight charters
Could it be UA is upping frequency to spread out freight demand? .
Converting to a passenger flight means a standard departure time that might not match ideal cargo demand and operating out of/into normal gates.
Let's hope the passenger revenue at least offsets re-timing cargo shipments and added costs of operating for passengers and/or adding frequency.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:29 pm

Also, how can they know demand if they don’t offer them for sale? I’m guessing pharma, tech, and oil/gas industry are signalling the need.

Wonder how many pilot and F/A jobs just these announcements will help save from furlough?
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:39 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I guess the passenger flights are good news.
Does this mean cargo demand may have dropped a bit to fit into the lower bins? I thought some of these flights were freight charters
Could it be UA is upping frequency to spread out freight demand? .
Converting to a passenger flight means a standard departure time that might not match ideal cargo demand and operating out of/into normal gates.
Let's hope the passenger revenue at least offsets re-timing cargo shipments and added costs of operating for passengers and/or adding frequency.


Most of the cargo flights depart from passenger gates already. With all of the flying I have done since March I have yet to carry cargo in the cabin of a 787
 
Sooner787
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:34 pm

KFTG wrote:
Here’s to hoping there’s a 6 month extension in the payroll support program.


Amen..... I was furloughed from my corporate travel gig in mid - March. We were told at the time
furloughs would be 90-120 days. Well, we were advised last week as day 120 came and went that now
the earliest they anticipate recalling anyone is Jan '21 and that we were free to search for other work.

Awfully late in the game to be looking at a career switch, but doesn't appear I have a choice :(
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:34 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
Also, how can they know demand if they don’t offer them for sale?

Watching people going to United.com, punching in their city pairs, and tallying their number of people getting “no results” screens.
 
AA94
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:38 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
I guess the passenger flights are good news.
Does this mean cargo demand may have dropped a bit to fit into the lower bins? I thought some of these flights were freight charters
Could it be UA is upping frequency to spread out freight demand? .
Converting to a passenger flight means a standard departure time that might not match ideal cargo demand and operating out of/into normal gates.
Let's hope the passenger revenue at least offsets re-timing cargo shipments and added costs of operating for passengers and/or adding frequency.


As jayunited mentioned upthread, there haven't been all that many cargo in the cabin flights as a portion of the whole, and those that have operated are concentrated. Most cargo-only flights are operating with belly cargo only, so there's an opportunity to uplift both cargo and presumably a relatively light pax load.

UA is selling full schedule and then making demand-based adjustments 30-45 days out, so if they're adding pax flights it's presumably because demand (whether pax, cargo, or both) warrants it.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:01 pm

Just a reminder — this thread is a United discussion. General coronavirus discussion or discussion regarding potential future stimulus belongs in other more appropriate threads.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
ericm2031
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:19 pm

UA has published their updated domestic schedule on United.com, effective until 10/7
 
FSDan
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:40 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The 763s with the expanded Polaris cabin and smaller economy section were rolled out for the EWR-LHR, EWR-ZRH, ORD-LHR routes, and were also planned for some East Coast to AMS (not sure if they were going to be operated on IAD-ZRH, or the IAD/EWR-GVA routes as well). There is one 767-300ER operating EWR-LAX rotations (there are 3 flights a day right now) but only one is a 763.


The routes originally planned to be operated by the 76L (high-J) fleet prior to COVID arising were:
ORD-LHR x3
ORD-ZRH x1
IAD-GVA x1
IAD-ZRH x1
EWR-LHR x6
EWR-NCE x1
EWR-FRA x1
EWR-GVA x1
EWR-ZRH x1


EWR-NCE: I was actually booked on the NCE-EWR flight a few days after it was supposed to launch (obviously, it was cancelled for 2020). It was to have been a standard 763 not a high J 76L on most days (perhaps to compete with La Compagnie's service). I thought AMS was also supposed to flown with the 76L. Interesting fact. Thanks for the info.


ORD-AMS and the planned 2nd frequency on EWR-AMS were both going to be standard 763s, I'm pretty sure. I could have sworn EWR-NCE was planned as a 76L route...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Here’s to hoping there’s a 6 month extension in the payroll support program.


Amen..... I was furloughed from my corporate travel gig in mid - March. We were told at the time
furloughs would be 90-120 days. Well, we were advised last week as day 120 came and went that now
the earliest they anticipate recalling anyone is Jan '21 and that we were free to search for other work.

Awfully late in the game to be looking at a career switch, but doesn't appear I have a choice :(

I'm sorry to hear that. I wish you luck, and I hope you can return soon to your previous job.
 
KFTG
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:22 am

Another Max sim should come online this coming week, for a total of 4 certified devices. United has the resources on hand to ramp up flying on the Max when the RTS is given. And given the new training requirements for the Max and global simulator availability, there will be opportunities for additional revenue coming into TK.
 
Max Q
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:21 am

I haven’t seen anywhere that essential travel is allowed or how this is defined either, you have something to substantiate that ?


Perhaps US Airlines are hoping for some westbound pax from Europe but that seems dubious given quarantine restrictions on their return
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
cnunn
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:22 am

A 739 (N39423) is currently flying SFO-MEM as UA2257.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2557

Does anyone know the reason for this flight? I can't recall UA ever offering direct service on this route and I am unaware of any sports teams who would be chartering a plane between the two cities. Maybe additional cargo capacity for FedEx?
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:03 pm

789:
N24980 new delivery ferried ORD For induction as 2705/1Aug
 
UALifer
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:03 pm

cnunn wrote:
A 739 (N39423) is currently flying SFO-MEM as UA2257.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2557

Does anyone know the reason for this flight? I can't recall UA ever offering direct service on this route and I am unaware of any sports teams who would be chartering a plane between the two cities. Maybe additional cargo capacity for FedEx?


It’s a position ferry for this flight MEM-SFO this morning:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2540

Charter for the PGA tour which just wrapped up an event in Memphis, and the PGA Championship occurring in San Francisco later this week.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:15 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
The below story shows that UA and NZ have traded LHR slots with
UA dropping 11pm arvl, adding 1050am arrival
UA dropping 11:05pm dept, adding 320pm departure.
These would seem to be superior times, but does it mean the AM eastbound from IAD or EWR would be cancelled?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... p=12364828


Eventually will be EWR-LHR #7. While these slots may be operated sooner, I doubt we see all 7 flights in a schedule until "use-it-or-lose-it" is back in full effect.

Image
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:46 am

codc10 wrote:
Eventually will be EWR-LHR #7. While these slots may be operated sooner, I doubt we see all 7 flights in a schedule until "use-it-or-lose-it" is back in full effect.



Big "IF" but if UA decides to get back into JFK, any thoughts on them getting back into the LHR market with a few slots in addition to LAX/SFO?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:59 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Eventually will be EWR-LHR #7. While these slots may be operated sooner, I doubt we see all 7 flights in a schedule until "use-it-or-lose-it" is back in full effect.



Big "IF" but if UA decides to get back into JFK, any thoughts on them getting back into the LHR market with a few slots in addition to LAX/SFO?


UA has almost no P2P routes now. JFK won’t change that.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:35 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Eventually will be EWR-LHR #7. While these slots may be operated sooner, I doubt we see all 7 flights in a schedule until "use-it-or-lose-it" is back in full effect.



Big "IF" but if UA decides to get back into JFK, any thoughts on them getting back into the LHR market with a few slots in addition to LAX/SFO?


Can’t see that. In normal times, UA’s schedule of 5-6x EWR-LHR was seen as light compared to DL/VS and certainly BA/AA, and consequently was not as attractive an option for heavy-hitting corporate contracts between NYC-LON. UA wouldn’t be competitive at JFK-LHR with anything less than the existing EWR schedule, which would be prohibitively expensive to implement through slot acquisitions, or require suspension of service in other markets.

When UA gets back into JFK, it’ll likely be SFO only, with a handful (6-8) flights. Very much a niche station.
 
xxcr
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:59 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
i miss flying on a the 767! one of my favorite planes! i flew on a 764 from EWR-SJU a few years back in J, and it so was so quiet and secluded. only downside to the 764.....lack of lavatories....only 5 lavs smh!!


The 767-400ER is a nice ride. Feels big, smooth ride. You're right, in CO, then UA configuration, there always seemed to be not enough lavs. The plane though is a hangar queen and at both CO and UA was known for triggering lengthy delays. Right now, all 16 are in storage and rumor has it, none of the UA 767-400s are coming back unless travel picks up meaningfully in 2021. They have not been "Polaris'd" and still sport the CO Business First seat though the Economy class cabin (there is no Premium Plus on the 764 at UA) was refurbished a while back with leather seats and updated AVOD.


That is true, those birds were terrible when it came to reliability!!!!
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:05 pm

xxcr wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
i miss flying on a the 767! one of my favorite planes! i flew on a 764 from EWR-SJU a few years back in J, and it so was so quiet and secluded. only downside to the 764.....lack of lavatories....only 5 lavs smh!!


The 767-400ER is a nice ride. Feels big, smooth ride. You're right, in CO, then UA configuration, there always seemed to be not enough lavs. The plane though is a hangar queen and at both CO and UA was known for triggering lengthy delays. Right now, all 16 are in storage and rumor has it, none of the UA 767-400s are coming back unless travel picks up meaningfully in 2021. They have not been "Polaris'd" and still sport the CO Business First seat though the Economy class cabin (there is no Premium Plus on the 764 at UA) was refurbished a while back with leather seats and updated AVOD.


That is true, those birds were terrible when it came to reliability!!!!


I took a 5 hour + delay on HNL-EWR in 2010 (when it was still CO). Similarly, had issues with a CDG-EWR flight post-merger. Part of the problem is that CO had a much higher utilization rate for all its jets, but widebodies, which were in short supply, in particular, and scheduled them with sometimes tight turnarounds. The merged airline continued the practice a few years into it and it was part of a confluence of factors that had a detrimental impact on their operations. Legacy UA jets had a lot of non-essential maintenance deferred pre-merger and cross-fleeting, without a unified pilot and flight attendant group was also central to the problem. A lot of this has now been long resolved.
 
UA857
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:35 pm

What routes did PMUA fly the Ghetto Bird 763s on?
 
DeltaMD95
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:25 am

ORD-SFO also sees the 763ER.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:45 am

UA857 wrote:
What routes did PMUA fly the Ghetto Bird 763s on?


Between hubs (DEN-ORD, ORD-SFO, DEN-SFO, and quite a few were used on Hawaii routes as well). Shortly after the merger, and cross fleeting began, one of the first routes a sUA 763 was used on from a non-sUA hub was IAH-LIM.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:16 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
ORD-SFO also sees the 763ER.

Not really. Ever since the 763s didn't havethe domestic configuration anymore, they have not been flying into SFO except for planes going to maintenance and the occasional equipment subs. I believe the lone exception to that was back when the SFO-CDG flight first started on a 763 before moving to the 787 the next year.
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TrafficCop
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:36 pm

AC 3981 delivered today. Believe that leaves 6 more 789's to go.

PAE-IAD as flight 2710-5Aug.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2710
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:26 pm

codc10 wrote:

Can’t see that. In normal times, UA’s schedule of 5-6x EWR-LHR was seen as light compared to DL/VS and certainly BA/AA, and consequently was not as attractive an option for heavy-hitting corporate contracts between NYC-LON. UA wouldn’t be competitive at JFK-LHR with anything less than the existing EWR schedule, which would be prohibitively expensive to implement through slot acquisitions, or require suspension of service in other markets.

When UA gets back into JFK, it’ll likely be SFO only, with a handful (6-8) flights. Very much a niche station.


That isn't true at all the main reason for UA going forward with a premium heavy 763 with 46J seats was because the standard layout didn't offer enough business class seats to meet demand. In fact since the merger UA has grown business demand to LHR out of EWR, going from 4x daily 757s with only 16J seats (actually 15 one seat was reserved for crew rest) and 1x daily 77E with 50J seats which gave us a total of 110J seats after the merger. Fast forward to last year with 6x daily 763s with 46J seats (45 were sold one reserved for crew rest) that means last year UA was offering 270J seats on our EWR-LHR route and 126 premium economy seats and it was extremely difficult to get an upgrade on this routes at certain times of the year. Of course UA can not match AA/BA I think they operated around 16-18x daily flights combinedJFK-LHR, but DL/VS were within arms reach I believe they combined for a total of 9x daily JFK-LHR.

I think if UA is able to get back into JFK (big IF) I think they leave EWR-LHR at 6x daily or perhaps 7x daily and try to secure 2 or 3 additional year round slots for JFK-LHR. EWR will still be UA main hub in New York, I think UA could borrow BA's playbook and operate flights to LHR from both EWR and JFK. But unlike BA where JFK is their main airport and EWR is their secondary, EWR would be UA's main with JFK as the secondary. Operating 2 or 3 daily LHR flights out of JFK would complement 6 or 7 daily flights out of EWR.

When Scott Kirby stated he would like for UA to get back into JFK in a meaningful way I don't think he meant operating flights to SFO only, that makes no sense at all, and it is just repeating the failures of the past. If UA is only going to operate flights to SFO there is no point in going back into JFK at all. I don't see UA turning JFK into a hub we have EWR for that, but JFK could become a strong line station with around 40 to perhaps 50 flights per day.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:49 pm

40 to 50 departures a day, is that 20-25 departures and arrivals each?
I think we could reasonably see these roundtrip counts:
JFK-SFO 6
JFK-LAX 5
JFK- LHR 3
JFK-ORD 3
JFK-IAH 2
JFK DEN 2
JFK IAD 0?
That's 21 departures and some could be RJs.
Beyond that and we're looking at JFK-Florida.
Star carriers at JFK wouldn't seem to connect that well to UA as Asia and Central/South America would be a backhaul, TAP, LOT, Turkish and South African might work to some UA hubs through JFK, but some of those flights are duplicate markets to UA's Eurpoean-EWR service.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:44 am

jayunited wrote:
but JFK could become a strong line station with around 40 to perhaps 50 flights per day.


Just curious....where might UA secure gates at JFK to support that many flights?
 
tphuang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:19 am

So the problem with any UA move back into JFK is not only well timed slots, but also gate space.

JFK is becoming an airport with basically 4 terminal in the JFK redevelopment: DL terminal, B6 terminal, AA terminal and international terminal. I thought a B6/UA partnership would have made the most sense for a UA re-entry into JFK, but that clearly did not happen. UA is not going to be able to fly out of the first 3. A read on the JFK redevelopment.

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/10/4/1793702 ... renderings

International terminal is going to be very crowded with the 4 primary tenant + most *A carrier + skyteam carrier + a couple of OW carrier and unaffiliated international carriers. And there is only going to be 22 or 23 gates there from what I can remember. There will be times during the day where new T-1 will be completely full. If you think about someone like QR or ET blocking a gate with a widebody for a couple of hours waiting for departure, you'd see what kind of stuff UA would be competing against here.

Keep in mind, T-1 will be charging a lot of money for those gate and space access. The project is apparently going to cost $7.4 billion to complete. All that money will be collected with very high fees. Which makes sense when you have large widebodies. It makes less sense when you are loading RJ or small narrowbody mainline in there.

Of course, it will be a while before we get the new T-1. But the current T-1 is really overcrowded and in bad condition. T-7 has space, but JetBlue is kicking BA and other tenants out of there by 2023 to start its own construction of the new North terminal. That's not even a medium term solution.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:46 am

United getting back on JFK-LHR sounds pretty far-fetched to me. That route has been gone for almost 15 years now.

A United presence at JFK has nothing to do with the NYC market. It's all about people going to NYC who have the perception that JFK is preferable to EWR. That was certainly the case with SFO and LAX-based passengers, and purportedly most of the clients UA lost after leaving JFK were California-based like Disney. They didn't lose much in NYC because their NYC base is so loyal to EWR anyway.

I'd be willing to bet that United somehow finds a way back into JFK, but I doubt we'll see any international from there. It'll be more than just SFO (add LAX at least), but I don't understand what JFK-LHR would accomplish.

With that said, it is interesting to see somewhat of a LHR buildup for United. They got a slot from LH to make DEN year-round, and now they're getting this slot from NZ for presumably another EWR frequency.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:52 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
jayunited wrote:
but JFK could become a strong line station with around 40 to perhaps 50 flights per day.


Just curious....where might UA secure gates at JFK to support that many flights?


To be honest I have no idea where or how UA could secure gate space to support that many flights. My previous post was my interpretation of what Kirby meant when he said he would like for UA to get back into JFK in a meaningful way.

I'm not a JFK expert and since UA doesn't operate any flights out of JFK I must confess I haven't kept up with who operates from what terminal and/or where UA could actually fit in a "meaningful operation". It is obvious there are many hurdles for UA to overcome before Kirby's dream is realized, if it is realized at all and make no mistake it is still a very big IF at this time.
 
232whereru
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:13 am

It really is pointless to go on and on about IF United will return to JFK or not and where it may or may not fly. I heard what Mr. Kirby had to say and I would take it all with a grain of salt. What is worth discussing is where all the 789 are going to fly, because those are being delivered and is reality, unlike somebody’s wish list.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:38 am

232whereru wrote:
It really is pointless to go on and on about IF United will return to JFK or not and where it may or may not fly. I heard what Mr. Kirby had to say and I would take it all with a grain of salt. What is worth discussing is where all the 789 are going to fly, because those are being delivered and is reality, unlike somebody’s wish list.

Cargo.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:54 am

jayunited wrote:
codc10 wrote:

Can’t see that. In normal times, UA’s schedule of 5-6x EWR-LHR was seen as light compared to DL/VS and certainly BA/AA, and consequently was not as attractive an option for heavy-hitting corporate contracts between NYC-LON. UA wouldn’t be competitive at JFK-LHR with anything less than the existing EWR schedule, which would be prohibitively expensive to implement through slot acquisitions, or require suspension of service in other markets.

When UA gets back into JFK, it’ll likely be SFO only, with a handful (6-8) flights. Very much a niche station.


That isn't true at all the main reason for UA going forward with a premium heavy 763 with 46J seats was because the standard layout didn't offer enough business class seats to meet demand. In fact since the merger UA has grown business demand to LHR out of EWR, going from 4x daily 757s with only 16J seats (actually 15 one seat was reserved for crew rest) and 1x daily 77E with 50J seats which gave us a total of 110J seats after the merger. Fast forward to last year with 6x daily 763s with 46J seats (45 were sold one reserved for crew rest) that means last year UA was offering 270J seats on our EWR-LHR route and 126 premium economy seats and it was extremely difficult to get an upgrade on this routes at certain times of the year. Of course UA can not match AA/BA I think they operated around 16-18x daily flights combinedJFK-LHR, but DL/VS were within arms reach I believe they combined for a total of 9x daily JFK-LHR.

I think if UA is able to get back into JFK (big IF) I think they leave EWR-LHR at 6x daily or perhaps 7x daily and try to secure 2 or 3 additional year round slots for JFK-LHR. EWR will still be UA main hub in New York, I think UA could borrow BA's playbook and operate flights to LHR from both EWR and JFK. But unlike BA where JFK is their main airport and EWR is their secondary, EWR would be UA's main with JFK as the secondary. Operating 2 or 3 daily LHR flights out of JFK would complement 6 or 7 daily flights out of EWR.

When Scott Kirby stated he would like for UA to get back into JFK in a meaningful way I don't think he meant operating flights to SFO only, that makes no sense at all, and it is just repeating the failures of the past. If UA is only going to operate flights to SFO there is no point in going back into JFK at all. I don't see UA turning JFK into a hub we have EWR for that, but JFK could become a strong line station with around 40 to perhaps 50 flights per day.


COVID changes everything, but I can’t see UA getting to that large of a JFK footprint without an acquisition... do the math on who it could possibly be. 40-50 daily flights with associated gate space seems to be wishful thinking, otherwise, for the next few years

JFK-LHR at 3x would be a waste of an operation unless it was treated as a true coterminal of EWR, and I still can’t see that happening. To get to a large JFK-LHR footprint, it would still be prohibitively expensive, and only a handful of flights would not be competitive in this environment.

With all that said, of course, COVID changes everything.
 
Sevensixtyseven
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:33 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:15 am

codc10 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
codc10 wrote:

Can’t see that. In normal times, UA’s schedule of 5-6x EWR-LHR was seen as light compared to DL/VS and certainly BA/AA, and consequently was not as attractive an option for heavy-hitting corporate contracts between NYC-LON. UA wouldn’t be competitive at JFK-LHR with anything less than the existing EWR schedule, which would be prohibitively expensive to implement through slot acquisitions, or require suspension of service in other markets.

When UA gets back into JFK, it’ll likely be SFO only, with a handful (6-8) flights. Very much a niche station.


That isn't true at all the main reason for UA going forward with a premium heavy 763 with 46J seats was because the standard layout didn't offer enough business class seats to meet demand. In fact since the merger UA has grown business demand to LHR out of EWR, going from 4x daily 757s with only 16J seats (actually 15 one seat was reserved for crew rest) and 1x daily 77E with 50J seats which gave us a total of 110J seats after the merger. Fast forward to last year with 6x daily 763s with 46J seats (45 were sold one reserved for crew rest) that means last year UA was offering 270J seats on our EWR-LHR route and 126 premium economy seats and it was extremely difficult to get an upgrade on this routes at certain times of the year. Of course UA can not match AA/BA I think they operated around 16-18x daily flights combinedJFK-LHR, but DL/VS were within arms reach I believe they combined for a total of 9x daily JFK-LHR.

I think if UA is able to get back into JFK (big IF) I think they leave EWR-LHR at 6x daily or perhaps 7x daily and try to secure 2 or 3 additional year round slots for JFK-LHR. EWR will still be UA main hub in New York, I think UA could borrow BA's playbook and operate flights to LHR from both EWR and JFK. But unlike BA where JFK is their main airport and EWR is their secondary, EWR would be UA's main with JFK as the secondary. Operating 2 or 3 daily LHR flights out of JFK would complement 6 or 7 daily flights out of EWR.

When Scott Kirby stated he would like for UA to get back into JFK in a meaningful way I don't think he meant operating flights to SFO only, that makes no sense at all, and it is just repeating the failures of the past. If UA is only going to operate flights to SFO there is no point in going back into JFK at all. I don't see UA turning JFK into a hub we have EWR for that, but JFK could become a strong line station with around 40 to perhaps 50 flights per day.


COVID changes everything, but I can’t see UA getting to that large of a JFK footprint without an acquisition... do the math on who it could possibly be. 40-50 daily flights with associated gate space seems to be wishful thinking, otherwise, for the next few years

JFK-LHR at 3x would be a waste of an operation unless it was treated as a true coterminal of EWR, and I still can’t see that happening. To get to a large JFK-LHR footprint, it would still be prohibitively expensive, and only a handful of flights would not be competitive in this environment.

With all that said, of course, COVID changes everything.


I could see a smaller version of LaGuardia at JFK. 2-4 dailies to IAH, DEN, hourly shuttles to ORD (as things pick up again, but initially 4-6x/day), and maybe 2-4x/day to LAX and 3-5/day to SFO, as well as one or two E175 or CRJ-700 to IAD, if you really wanted to round out the offerings for JFK pax . Enough to connect the network without going crazy. Also, to assist in cost savings, you **theoretically** could crew and ground handle, staff these on a temp basis from EWR/LGA, as well as use UA's in-house Catering Division @ EWR, to keep costs from ballooning out of control. (Same for an OAK reopening that's also been floated, a couple DEN and IAH departures on A319s/E75s, a single ORD turn on a 737-700, and maybe a couple OO E75 departures from LAX, to round out the intra-California portfolio.) After a good maturing of JFK with more gates and slot spaces, then I could see some LHR or FRA departures come online, but I can see 10-16 flights a day for an opening. Only 3-4 gates would be needed, or maybe 2, if you really crammed the sequencing of flights into those, with quick turnarounds with smaller gauges for faster quick turns.
I call the dusty desert my home. :)
 
codc10
Posts: 2898
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:03 pm

The gigantic caveat here is COVID, but conventional wisdom is that business travelers demand frequency, and will pay a premium for it. Fewer than 5 daily flights on premium transcons or LHR, against competitors with double (or more) frequency would be an utter waste of resources.

If United goes back into JFK, to any station, it’ll have to be done in a way that makes it a compelling option versus incumbent carriers, and I would
not expect weak, token frequency.
 
DeltaMD95
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:37 am

Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:52 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
DeltaMD95 wrote:
ORD-SFO also sees the 763ER.

Not really. Ever since the 763s didn't havethe domestic configuration anymore, they have not been flying into SFO except for planes going to maintenance and the occasional equipment subs. I believe the lone exception to that was back when the SFO-CDG flight first started on a 763 before moving to the 787 the next year.


Really. The evening I added my above reply, I spotted a UA 763ER from my backyard on final descent to ORD from SFO.
Confirmed on FL24 at the time of spotting.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:41 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
Really. The evening I added my above reply, I spotted a UA 763ER from my backyard on final descent to ORD from SFO.
Confirmed on FL24 at the time of spotting.

It was a sub for a 757-200, which is on the schedule for every other day this month. Which is also why I said this:
KLMatSJC wrote:
and the occasional equipment subs
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
wernerga3
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: Does United fly the 763 domestic at all?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:04 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
DeltaMD95 wrote:
Really. The evening I added my above reply, I spotted a UA 763ER from my backyard on final descent to ORD from SFO.
Confirmed on FL24 at the time of spotting.

It was a sub for a 757-200, which is on the schedule for every other day this month. Which is also why I said this:
KLMatSJC wrote:
and the occasional equipment subs

Wow that sub flight must have a been quite a catch. I'm noticing that these last minute type product switch outs are hit or miss on booking that same day!

The 767 is the only current UA plane I haven't been on and it is getting up there in age. Getting those fa rest seats would just be the icing on the cake since I doubt any high j configs will fly domestically to let me try out pp.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:22 am

UAX Update:

CR2:
N869AS has returned to flying
N419AW has returned to flying
N427ZW has returned to flying
N435AW has returned to flying
N469AW has returned to flying
Correction: N937EV is flying; N937SW is still parked at TUS

CR5:
N522GJ has returned to flying
N536GJ has returned to flying
N543GJ has returned to flying
 
VC10er
Posts: 4268
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:25 am

With no real understanding of how long it will take air travel to return to some form of Pre-Covid levels, my understanding was that the High J 763’s were doing well for UA. In fact back then I really wanted a 7AM departure added as last minute 8AM bookings were often full, and by the time you landed and got to your hotel, it was often pretty late (10PM-10:30PM) - but I figured those extremely attractive High J 763’s would need to be replaced.
Was the talk of high J and PE 789’s? (As I doubt with only 12 788’s, too much flexibility would be lost?)

Also, I wonder if there is more office and residential building projects East of Manhattan or West across the Hudson. I would love to see a 10 year time lapse film of Jersey City 2010 and 2020...and with Facebook taking over the old, beautiful NYC Post Office building (half the size of Boeing!) and Google and Twitter in the same area, the SFO/EWR route could become the next Tech Skyway!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
simairlinenet
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:24 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:02 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
jayunited wrote:
but JFK could become a strong line station with around 40 to perhaps 50 flights per day.


Just curious....where might UA secure gates at JFK to support that many flights?

For context, United’s biggest spokes, BOS and CLE, are\were each at ~40 flights.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:37 am

Anyone know what's driving all of the traffic to Guam?

Right now, I see three direct 777s enroute to Guam from LAX, HNL and SFO. I know Guam has a large US military presence, but this seems like a lot of lift for a little island when the leisure market is non-existent.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:09 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:14 am

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/u ... 65.article

Does this mean United is pessimistic about a CARES act extension or is it just planning ahead just in case CARES isnt extended?
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:38 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Anyone know what's driving all of the traffic to Guam?

Right now, I see three direct 777s enroute to Guam from LAX, HNL and SFO. I know Guam has a large US military presence, but this seems like a lot of lift for a little island when the leisure market is non-existent.


Cargo. IIRC, UAL is running some freight through NRT, too. But I believe GUM doesn’t have the curfew that NRT does.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
The777Man
Posts: 6125
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:01 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Anyone know what's driving all of the traffic to Guam?

Right now, I see three direct 777s enroute to Guam from LAX, HNL and SFO. I know Guam has a large US military presence, but this seems like a lot of lift for a little island when the leisure market is non-existent.


Aircraft are all going onward to HKG or perhaps PVG too. Due to entry restrictions for crew, the aircraft flies into GUM, change of crew and then flies GUM-HKG-NRT or vv and then change of crew again and then back to the USA.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
flyer56
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:01 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Anyone know what's driving all of the traffic to Guam?

Right now, I see three direct 777s enroute to Guam from LAX, HNL and SFO. I know Guam has a large US military presence, but this seems like a lot of lift for a little island when the leisure market is non-existent.


UA has been running a daily 777 GUM to PVG for freight. Probably still continuing.

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