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Nicknuzzii
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:36 am

Max Q wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United forced to reduce a planned September increase in service to Hawaii from the mainland.

With Hawaii announcing an extension of the mandatory 14 day quarantine the number of customer changing or canceling their travel plans has increased, forcing UA to respond by reducing or canceling our planned September increase in service on nine mainland-Hawaii routes.

Updated September schedule is as follows:
SFO-HNL: 2x daily
LAX-HNL: 1x daily
DEN-HNL: 1x daily
HNL-GUM: 1x daily
ORD-HNL: 3x weekly (Thurs, Fri, and Sat)
SFO-OGG: 1x daily
SFO-KOA: 1x daily

The new plan calls for United to resume additional service to Hawaii in October, but only if Hawaii is fully open. (Meaning no 14 day quarantine for all arriving passengers.)



No EWR—HNL ?


That one has been gone since March. I don’t expect it to come back for a long time.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3028
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:44 am

Max Q wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United forced to reduce a planned September increase in service to Hawaii from the mainland.

With Hawaii announcing an extension of the mandatory 14 day quarantine the number of customer changing or canceling their travel plans has increased, forcing UA to respond by reducing or canceling our planned September increase in service on nine mainland-Hawaii routes.

Updated September schedule is as follows:
SFO-HNL: 2x daily
LAX-HNL: 1x daily
DEN-HNL: 1x daily
HNL-GUM: 1x daily
ORD-HNL: 3x weekly (Thurs, Fri, and Sat)
SFO-OGG: 1x daily
SFO-KOA: 1x daily

The new plan calls for United to resume additional service to Hawaii in October, but only if Hawaii is fully open. (Meaning no 14 day quarantine for all arriving passengers.)



No EWR—HNL ?


No, no EWR, IAH, or IAD - HNL flights for the month of September.

I'm not sure if the October schedule has been finalized yet but for now we are showing EWR and IAH -HNL resuming daily service in October while IAD-HNL looks like it will operate Saturdays only. The problem in my opinion is this I don't believe Hawaii will be fully re-opened in October, and quite frankly I don't believe Hawaii will re-open until February or March 2021. We know Hawaii is a popular destination during the Holidays but this year they can't afford to be overrun with tourist. This piece meal job the governor is doing is a complete disservice to people who have or are making plans only to have to cancel those plans last minute because of the strict 14 day quarantine. I 100% believe the quarantine is necessary for a island like Hawaii I just wished the governor would just come out and say we are not opening until February 2021. This way airlines and the traveling public could plan accordingly and we wouldn't have hordes of people canceling their trips last minute forcing airlines like United to the trim the schedule last minute.
 
TWAGuy
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:29 pm

jayunited wrote:
Max Q wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United forced to reduce a planned September increase in service to Hawaii from the mainland.

With Hawaii announcing an extension of the mandatory 14 day quarantine the number of customer changing or canceling their travel plans has increased, forcing UA to respond by reducing or canceling our planned September increase in service on nine mainland-Hawaii routes.

Updated September schedule is as follows:
SFO-HNL: 2x daily
LAX-HNL: 1x daily
DEN-HNL: 1x daily
HNL-GUM: 1x daily
ORD-HNL: 3x weekly (Thurs, Fri, and Sat)
SFO-OGG: 1x daily
SFO-KOA: 1x daily

The new plan calls for United to resume additional service to Hawaii in October, but only if Hawaii is fully open. (Meaning no 14 day quarantine for all arriving passengers.)



No EWR—HNL ?


No, no EWR, IAH, or IAD - HNL flights for the month of September.


IAH-HNL loaded 3/wk starting Sept 17 w B763
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:23 pm

TWAGuy wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Max Q wrote:


No EWR—HNL ?


No, no EWR, IAH, or IAD - HNL flights for the month of September.


IAH-HNL loaded 3/wk starting Sept 17 w B763


This schedule is loaded on the main page of Flying Together with the title September Schedule reductions.

None of this is insider information anyone with Flying Together access can see the article and the updated Hawaii schedule. The article was not uploaded until around 7pm central time on August 21st which was a little late but it does point out the only hubs where there are no changes to the HNL schedule were GUM, SFO and DEN. Although IAH still shows 3x weekly perhaps they haven't zeroed it out yet. However, neither IAH, EWR, or IAD were mentioned in the article as being safe from September schedule reductions. IAH-HNL has been suspended since late March, the fact that it wasn't mentioned in the article has led many to believe the suspension will continue now through the entire month of September.

LAX-OGG and LAX-KOA were schedule to resume in September but those routes were left out of the announcement as well.

The article clearly states United's September Schedule between the mainland and Hawaii is as follows:
SFO-HNL 2x daily
LAX-HNL 1x daily
DEN-HNL 1x daily
ORD-HNL 3x weekly (Thurs, Fri, Sat)
SFO-OGG 1x daily
SFO-KOA 1x daily

Was this a rush announcement and they forgot about IAH-HNL as well as LAX-OGG/KOA I don't know. All I'm doing is conveying the information posted on Flying Together for all UA Employees to see.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:50 pm

Now that DL and AA have announced their post recovery route network, I wonder when UA will do the same and what we might see from from them network wise.
 
x1234
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:07 pm

Is UA burning more cash than DL or UA? One thing I've noticed is that UA has more TATL and TPAC exposure than DL or AA. With service resumption DL mainly serves JV partner hubs like ICN & HND in the Pacific and PVG and LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA/MXP/MAD in the Atlantic. AA mainly serves LHR/CDG & HND/NRT/HKG in the Atlantic and Pacific. UA serves tons more destinations in both the Pacific & Atlantic and Star Alliance is stronger TPAC & TATL anyways.
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:24 pm

x1234 wrote:
Is UA burning more cash than DL or UA? One thing I've noticed is that UA has more TATL and TPAC exposure than DL or AA. With service resumption DL mainly serves JV partner hubs like ICN & HND in the Pacific and PVG and LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA/MXP/MAD in the Atlantic. AA mainly serves LHR/CDG & HND/NRT/HKG in the Atlantic and Pacific. UA serves tons more destinations in both the Pacific & Atlantic and Star Alliance is stronger TPAC & TATL anyways.



This has been explained in so many threads I'm not sure why people keeping bringing it up.

What people believe is additional capacity in the international market is NOT UA adding more flights. These flights have been operating since early on in this pandemic as cargo only flights. The only thing that has changed is UA has opened up these flights for essential travelers. Even though most countries are closed to US tourist, essential travel is now allowed (although there are a lot of restrictions). Most of what you are seeing as additional exposure/capacity is essentially a cargo flight operating with around a 20%-30% load factor. United is still filling the belly with cargo, in many cases all the bags fit in bulk pit in other cases up to 2 LD3s are needed for bags. There are a few TATL exceptions where at times load factors are a bit higher than 30% those destinations are FRA, and now TLV. In addition to passenger service flights UA still operates cargo only flights to these destinations as well.

A lot people are forgetting UA cargo revenue in Q2 2020 was up 36% neither AA or DL were any where close to UA's cargo numbers. AA stated they want to fly 1,000 cargo flights in the month of September, (they are a bit late to the game) UA has been flying 1,000+ cargo only flights per month for several months now. So the capacity you are seeing isn't "additional" capacity in the traditional sense of the word because UA already had or already scheduled these aircraft to be in the air. All they've done is change it from exclusive cargo only to passenger service but for all intents and purposes most TATL and TPAC flights are still cargo only flights because there are so few passengers traveling.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3053
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:37 pm

Does United still have aircraft stored in IAH? Hurricane Laura's a Category 4 right now so it's not looking great...
 
codc10
Posts: 2911
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:56 pm

A bunch of 767s are in IAH but N659UA just flew to ROW today.

I am sure United wouldn't be terribly upset if some of the aircraft were damaged beyond repair for an insurance writeoff!
 
jayunited
Posts: 3028
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:13 pm

codc10 wrote:
A bunch of 767s are in IAH but N659UA just flew to ROW today.

I am sure United wouldn't be terribly upset if some of the aircraft were damaged beyond repair for an insurance writeoff!


LOL!!!! Yeah out with the old in with the new :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a more serious note I was on the call this morning and there will be another update later this afternoon. But from this mornings update which UA received from the National Hurricane Center, they are not expecting hurricane force winds at Houston Bush Intercontinental, they are expecting tropical storm force winds at the airport and a lot of rain. There may be some cancelations this evening and tonight just to reduce the number of RON's and there also may be some cancellations or delays tomorrow morning and afternoon depending on if employees can get to the airport. United did fly some aircraft out of IAH relocating them to LAX, ORD, DEN, IAD and ROW, but there are still quite a few frames stored at IAH.

From the call this morning UA is securing aircraft all aircraft stored at IAH (not really sure what that means) and they will be securing all ground equipment and jet bridges. But from this mornings update UA officials on the call stated the National Hurricane Center still expects Laura to make landfall on the Texas/Louisiana coast and then turn north northeast so they are not expecting major damage at IAH.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:16 am

x1234 wrote:
Is UA burning more cash than DL or UA? One thing I've noticed is that UA has more TATL and TPAC exposure than DL or AA. With service resumption DL mainly serves JV partner hubs like ICN & HND in the Pacific and PVG and LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA/MXP/MAD in the Atlantic. AA mainly serves LHR/CDG & HND/NRT/HKG in the Atlantic and Pacific. UA serves tons more destinations in both the Pacific & Atlantic and Star Alliance is stronger TPAC & TATL anyways.


I think you will see in Q3 that UAs cash burn will be better than AA and DL. UA is killing it with Cargo.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 pm

789:
Does anyone know if this is maint only or Polaris?
N38950 entered XMN 2753/25Aug
N26970 entered XMN 2754/25Aug
 
redrooster3
Posts: 382
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:54 pm

Well, hurricane Laura has passed and KIAH got not one drop of rain nor any winds which is always a good thing. I pray for Louisiana though as they were a smack direct hit.

As far as aircraft movement due to Laura at IAH, Tech ops got all the 777s that were stored in IAH since March airworthiness again and either ferries to other hubs, or to ROW for further storage. These 777s were Aircraft 8, 14, 17, 18, 19, and 22 and were stored on Runway 15R. The 737s stored on the south runway complex were either packed into the hangers for protection or ferried elsewhere to ROW/Hubs. The High-J 767s are all stored in the east cargo complex and looked to have been spread out but were not flown out to ROW.
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:52 pm

Just a reminder that factual or newsworthy information requires sources. If no source is available, the post needs to be labeled as "rumor" or "unconfirmed" per forum rules.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:07 pm

United customers might find their flights canceled if loads are light. UA unveiled a new internal system to target low booked flights to conserve cash.


“Due to the frequently shifting Covid-19 environment, it can be difficult to predict customer demand when building schedules,” the airline told employees in an internal message. “To help preserve cash, we’re now recommending proactive mainline cancelations that focus on consolidating flights with a load factor below 30 percent.”

In normal times, the approach would be unusual for a full-service global airline like United. Most legacy carriers place an emphasis on schedule integrity, or flying exactly what they sell, unless mechanical or whether issues pop up. Even a flight with a low load factor might have a few high-value customers, airlines figure, and they don’t want to annoy them with a late cancelation.

But relatively few high-value customers are flying and business is not good, so that’s not the priority. Now, the airline wants to save money. “Although this process does impact our reliability, it helps us preserve cash for the long run,” United told employees.


United Airlines Unveils New Algorithm to Help It Target Empty Flights
https://skift.com/2020/08/28/united-air ... y-flights/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:37 pm

LAXintl wrote:
United customers might find their flights canceled if loads are light. UA unveiled a new internal system to target low booked flights to conserve cash.


“Due to the frequently shifting Covid-19 environment, it can be difficult to predict customer demand when building schedules,” the airline told employees in an internal message. “To help preserve cash, we’re now recommending proactive mainline cancelations that focus on consolidating flights with a load factor below 30 percent.”

In normal times, the approach would be unusual for a full-service global airline like United. Most legacy carriers place an emphasis on schedule integrity, or flying exactly what they sell, unless mechanical or whether issues pop up. Even a flight with a low load factor might have a few high-value customers, airlines figure, and they don’t want to annoy them with a late cancelation.

But relatively few high-value customers are flying and business is not good, so that’s not the priority. Now, the airline wants to save money. “Although this process does impact our reliability, it helps us preserve cash for the long run,” United told employees.


United Airlines Unveils New Algorithm to Help It Target Empty Flights
https://skift.com/2020/08/28/united-air ... y-flights/

“ Economic Cancellations”... It used to be a “ thing” back in the 80’s, United was one of the worst at it. It got to the point that congressman were finding flights home cancelled, and you know what that means, they started introducing legislation to stop it. iirc Correctly, didn’t the FAA put out some rule about it around 1990?
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:37 am

UAX Update:

E145:
N16546 exited Fleet, stored IGM
N16561 exited Fleet, stored IGM
N16976 exited Fleet, stored IGM
N13978 exited Fleet, stored IGM

E145XR:
N11194 has returned to flying
N14116 (ex-AX) exited Fleet, stored IGM
N12126 (ex-AX) exited Fleet, stored IGM
N11155 (ex-AX) exited Fleet, stored IGM

CR2:
N464AW has returned to flying
N945SW ferried ROW (unlikely storage, possible paint)
N947SW has returned to flying

CR5:
N506GJ has returned to flying
N541GJ has returned to flying
 
777luver
Posts: 171
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:32 am

Any word on the 757 fleet sticking around?
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:00 am

x1234 wrote:
Is UA burning more cash than DL or UA? One thing I've noticed is that UA has more TATL and TPAC exposure than DL or AA. With service resumption DL mainly serves JV partner hubs like ICN & HND in the Pacific and PVG and LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA/MXP/MAD in the Atlantic. AA mainly serves LHR/CDG & HND/NRT/HKG in the Atlantic and Pacific. UA serves tons more destinations in both the Pacific & Atlantic and Star Alliance is stronger TPAC & TATL anyways.


' Is UA burning more cash than DL or UA? ' AA?

Estimates.....

Airline....... Reported Q2 Daily Cash Burn..... Adjusted Daily Q2 Cash Burn
Alaska..... $5.4 million......................................$5 million
Allegiant.. $1 million ........................................$2 million
American. $55 million............................... $59 million
Delta......... $43 million............................... $52 million
JetBlue..... $10 million............................... $10 million
Southwest $23 million................................ $17 million
Spirit......... $5.8 million............................... $6 million
United...... $40 million............................... $40 million

https://crankyflier.com/2020/07/30/figu ... y-burning/

April reports

AA $70 Million A Day Cash Burn And No Demand: Can American Airlines Stock Recover From Here?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... 6caf03fa08

DL $50 Million A Day Cash BurnDelta projects 80% drop in second-quarter revenue, or $10 billion; it is burning through $50 million in cash per day
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/delta ... 2020-03-20

SW $30 million to $35 million Daily Cash Burn
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/sou ... -cash-burn

UA $45 million Daily Cash Burn ... United Airlines Holdings Inc. will wrestle its average daily cash burn down to no more than $45 million
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -cost-cuts
You are here.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:14 pm

777luver wrote:
Any word on the 757 fleet sticking around?



UA has 757s in service and they have been in since mid to late May. The only month we had absolutely zero 757s flying was April.

Of the 21 753s 16 frames are currently in service.
Of the 40 RR 752s 13 frames are currently in service.

UA tried to fly routes like EWR-SFO, and EWR-LAX with only 738s then a mixture of widebodies and 738s but even in a pandemic quickly discovered that was a mistake and brought back a few RR 752s to replace the 738s. I took a lot of heat early on when I stated UA must have lie flat seats on every EWR-SFO/LAX flight because even in a pandemic New York-SFO/LAX markets are still competitive and utilizing a 738 on these routes puts UA at a huge disadvantage.

Although UA is still utilizing 738/9s on our BOS-SFO route I do know UA is planning on bringing back lie flat seating to this market.

I still haven't been able to get any insider information on UA's 737-10 order. I know Boeing for sure has 16 737-9 frames ready for delivery once the program is re-certified. Also I think (not 100% sure)that in addition to a few more 737-9s UA is schedule to take delivery of a few 737-10s in 2021. Having said that I do think some of our RR engined 752s will be retired in 2021 and replaced by the 737-10 which will have lie flat seats. But I think that number of retirements greatly depends on how many (if any) 737-10s are delivered in 2021 especially seeing that UA said we would only take delivery of 40 737 frames in 2021 (16 of which are built but undelivered) and defer the remaining order to a future date. Trying to nail down the variant of the remaining 24 frames has been a bit challenging even for an insider like myself.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:36 pm

United is the last of the big 3 to announce their International schedule for next summer. Are they waiting to watch demand or??
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:25 pm

319:
N884UA - Delivered to UA on 27-Aug in XMN. Previously was B-6207 with China Southern. China Southern handled the delivery flight into XMN for induction work due to COVID.
 
ericm2031
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:43 pm

jayunited wrote:
I still haven't been able to get any insider information on UA's 737-10 order. I know Boeing for sure has 16 737-9 frames ready for delivery once the program is re-certified. Also I think (not 100% sure)that in addition to a few more 737-9s UA is schedule to take delivery of a few 737-10s in 2021. Having said that I do think some of our RR engined 752s will be retired in 2021 and replaced by the 737-10 which will have lie flat seats. But I think that number of retirements greatly depends on how many (if any) 737-10s are delivered in 2021 especially seeing that UA said we would only take delivery of 40 737 frames in 2021 (16 of which are built but undelivered) and defer the remaining order to a future date. Trying to nail down the variant of the remaining 24 frames has been a bit challenging even for an insider like myself.


I can't find it exactly, but I know it's been mentioned on here a couple times about registrations of UA MAX 8s showing up (potentially white tails originally planned for 9W), but just no confirmation from UA yet. So those may also be in the cards for those 40 in 2021.
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:56 pm

jayunited wrote:
Trying to nail down the variant of the remaining 24 frames has been a bit challenging even for an insider like myself.




Up to 17 737MAX8s. Year 2020, don't know how many were built with the production pause ....

' Post # 612....

17 737-MAX8s so far....

Nose#. Type. Mfg S/N. N#. Line #. Year-Mfg.

7251 737MAX-8 43931 N27251 8035 2020
7252 737MAX-8 43932 N27252 8075 2020
7253 737MAX-8 43930 N27253 8092 2020
7254 737MAX-8 43436 N17254 8104 2020
7255 737MAX-8 43440 TBD .....8119 2020
7256 737MAX-8 64447 TBD .....8126 2020
7257 737MAX-8 43442 TBD .....8133 2020
7258 737MAX-8 66593 TBD .....8139 2020
7259 737MAX-8 43462 TBD .....8143 2020
7260 737MAX-8 43458 TBD..... 8151 2020
7261 737MAX-8 43464 TBD ....8153 2020
7262 737MAX-8 66594 TBD.....8163 2020
7263 737MAX-8 66595 TBD ....8182 2020
7264 737MAX-8 66596 TBD ....8259 2020
7265 737MAX-8 TBD TBD .......8293 9/2020
7266 737MAX-8 TBD TBD .......8304 9/2020
7267 737MAX-8 TBD TBD .......8326 10/2020 '
You are here.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:18 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
United is the last of the big 3 to announce their International schedule for next summer. Are they waiting to watch demand or??


Next summer still feels like a long way away to me.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:27 pm

Just in from Scott Kirby via email:

"We're making a big change … for the better. To support you during your U.S. travels, we've decided to get rid of change fees for good.

You can say goodbye to change fees on most Economy and all premium cabin tickets when you travel within the U.S., Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands.

And starting this January, United® will be the only U.S. airline to let customers in all classes of service fly same-day standby for free. Our MileagePlus® Premier® members will have even more flexibility and can confirm a seat on an earlier flight for no cost at all."

This is a pretty huge deal for people that choose an airline due the fact that everyone else had change fees. I've been waiting for this "shot across the bow" of WN for a while. The playing field just got a whole lot more level. (FYI, Basic Economy is excluded)
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:20 am

Once again — this thread is for the United Fleet and Network discussion. There is a thread on the fee change here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1451103

Any further discussion not relating to United Fleet and Network will be deleted, and users will be warned or banned. I'm not going to say it again, because I'm tired of cleaning up this thread.

If you have issues with moderation, we literally have an entire forum dedicated for it called Site Related, which is here viewforum.php?f=12

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:16 pm

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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GTFspotter
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:13 pm

codc10 wrote:
GTFspotter wrote:
Hello all,

Back in January UA announced service from SMX to LAX, DEN and SFO starting in the summer with 1x daily flights to each destination. I believe they unofficially (could not find a news article stating the delay) postponed service to starting Oct 1. However, I have tried to book SMX to DEN (a route I would actually fly) all the way into December and still nothing pops up. Does anybody have updated information for when they will start this route?
Thanks for the Info


Rolled back a season into March 2021.

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2021/


That's kind of unfortunate they cancelled the cancelled the LAX route. I would gladly have paid a decent price to be there in 15 minutes or so as opposed to 4 hours via $90+ van shuttle from SMX.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:43 am

I think it would be a nice marketing tool for United to start rolling out meal service / snack service in the cabins again. If they can fill all seats, what's the excuse for not returning other services other than a cost savings at this point?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:30 am

^^

i flew on sunday and received a snack bag. it had a thing of pretzels, biscoff cookies, small water bottle, napkin, disinfectant wipe, and hand sanitizer in it.

i thought it was great. i hope that sticks around post COVID. seems to have made the service much faster.
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:34 am

UAX Update:

CR2:
N462AW has returned to flying

E145XR:
N18102 (ex-AX) exited fleet, stored IGM
N41104 (ex-AX) exited fleet, stored IGM
N18114 (ex-AX) exited fleet, stored IGM
N14117 (ex-AX) exited fleet, stored IGM
N11119 (ex-AX) exited fleet, stored IGM
N11121 (ex-AX) exited fleet, stored IGM
N11187 has returned to flying with C5

CR5:
N534GJ has returned to flying
N520GJ (previously N615QX) has entered revenue service with GoJet
N530GJ (previously N151GJ) has entered revenue service with GoJet
 
jayunited
Posts: 3028
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:16 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
I think it would be a nice marketing tool for United to start rolling out meal service / snack service in the cabins again. If they can fill all seats, what's the excuse for not returning other services other than a cost savings at this point?



United is not filling all seats in fact less than 10% of UA flights operate at over 60% capacity.

United still serves hot food and snacks onboard our flights.

In coach everything is prepackaged which for now will probably remain the norm as some customers in coach either bring their own food onboard with them or choose not to eat onboard at all.

In Polaris (international and on former p.s. routes) customers still have a choice between multiple hot meals (UA has remove all menus for obvious reasons). It is not the same service as before, everything is sealed after it comes out of the kitchen and the customer not the FA's opens and removes the packaging this includes desert. The entire meal is serve all at once instead of the 4 individual course meals customers received before.

I don't think we will see a return to "normal" service until there is a widespread vaccine. Food is still one of those items where customers feel like the less people interacting with my food the better, so your criticism of UA's onboard food service is completely unwarranted at this time.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
I think it would be a nice marketing tool for United to start rolling out meal service / snack service in the cabins again. If they can fill all seats, what's the excuse for not returning other services other than a cost savings at this point?



United is not filling all seats in fact less than 10% of UA flights operate at over 60% capacity.

United still serves hot food and snacks onboard our flights.

In coach everything is prepackaged which for now will probably remain the norm as some customers in coach either bring their own food onboard with them or choose not to eat onboard at all.

In Polaris (international and on former p.s. routes) customers still have a choice between multiple hot meals (UA has remove all menus for obvious reasons). It is not the same service as before, everything is sealed after it comes out of the kitchen and the customer not the FA's opens and removes the packaging this includes desert. The entire meal is serve all at once instead of the 4 individual course meals customers received before.

I don't think we will see a return to "normal" service until there is a widespread vaccine. Food is still one of those items where customers feel like the less people interacting with my food the better, so your criticism of UA's onboard food service is completely unwarranted at this time.


UA is filling all seats in the fact that they are available to board to actual capacity, opposed to DL at 60% firm. Whether they actually sell that many is a different matter
 
codc10
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:00 pm

jayunited wrote:
I don't think we will see a return to "normal" service until there is a widespread vaccine. Food is still one of those items where customers feel like the less people interacting with my food the better, so your criticism of UA's onboard food service is completely unwarranted at this time.


I disagree that it's "unwarranted", but I understand what you're saying. The fact remains, the company is losing truckloads of money and catering is an easy budget to cut. After 6+ months, there's scant evidence that COVID-19 is spread through food service or surface transmission from packaging.

I just think it's disingenuous to position catering cuts as much more than a piece of an aggressive cost-containment strategy.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:23 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
United is not filling all seats in fact less than 10% of UA flights operate at over 60% capacity.

United still serves hot food and snacks onboard our flights.

In coach everything is prepackaged which for now will probably remain the norm as some customers in coach either bring their own food onboard with them or choose not to eat onboard at all.

In Polaris (international and on former p.s. routes) customers still have a choice between multiple hot meals (UA has remove all menus for obvious reasons). It is not the same service as before, everything is sealed after it comes out of the kitchen and the customer not the FA's opens and removes the packaging this includes desert. The entire meal is serve all at once instead of the 4 individual course meals customers received before.

I don't think we will see a return to "normal" service until there is a widespread vaccine. Food is still one of those items where customers feel like the less people interacting with my food the better, so your criticism of UA's onboard food service is completely unwarranted at this time.


UA is filling all seats in the fact that they are available to board to actual capacity, opposed to DL at 60% firm. Whether they actually sell that many is a different matter

I don't think that's what he's saying — no one is disputing that United is booking to 100% load factors, but what jayunited is saying is that despite the ability to book to 100% capacity, they are only booking to more than 60% less than 10% of the time due to lack of demand. While they aren't providing the capacity guarantee of carriers like Delta, they are essentially offering that organically.
 
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drerx7
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:56 pm

codc10 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
I don't think we will see a return to "normal" service until there is a widespread vaccine. Food is still one of those items where customers feel like the less people interacting with my food the better, so your criticism of UA's onboard food service is completely unwarranted at this time.


I disagree that it's "unwarranted", but I understand what you're saying. The fact remains, the company is losing truckloads of money and catering is an easy budget to cut. After 6+ months, there's scant evidence that COVID-19 is spread through food service or surface transmission from packaging.

I just think it's disingenuous to position catering cuts as much more than a piece of an aggressive cost-containment strategy.


I think both of y'all have valid comments. While there is minimal evidence about the spread of covid via food service etc....Perception is reality. I think its a convenient fiscal cut - but commercially, you have to do it because the everyday joe schmoe isn't in tune with common sense. For example; I am a dentist and in my office we have had to do a whole dog and pony show to demonstrate how we are 'Covid Ready'. When in actuality we...and any reputable dental practice... have always been covid ready. If you maintain the appropriate PPE as you always have - there is nothing different about how a virus is transmitted or prevented.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 881
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:26 pm

Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.
 
codc10
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:41 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


I'd wait and see for the schedule release this weekend. Seems that UA is holding off on finalizing domestic schedules to 30 days from the start of the month. Right now, in most markets, it is the pre-COVID schedule, and, as we know, UA will not be able to staff this level of flying. I would expect significant changes to the negative.

As an example, ExpressJet is ceasing all operations on 30SEP, but the schedule for October still has a full slate of XJT flying out of both IAH and ORD. XJT has actually been out of ORD since August and is flying a relatively limited IAH schedule this month as it winds down, transferring aircraft to C5 and storage at IGM.
Last edited by codc10 on Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:41 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


United is the last airline to update their October schedule and it is still not out. I’m wondering if this has to do with the long haul flights that are “scheduled” to resume at the end of the month.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1414
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:42 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


They'll be finalized Saturday morning
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:22 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


I would assume this would be when they will announce the W20 and S21 schedules. As another poster said, they still need to figure out what they will do with the 10/24 and 25th resumptions. What could be axed internationally?
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:43 pm

Here we go: 16,000+ jobs to be furloughed:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN25T2GB

Also, Ed Russell at TPG has written up a memo from an investment bank predicting that UA will retire the 767s. Doesn't appear to be based on anything, but seems like an accurate guess.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... t-analyst/
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:15 pm

jayunited wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
I think it would be a nice marketing tool for United to start rolling out meal service / snack service in the cabins again. If they can fill all seats, what's the excuse for not returning other services other than a cost savings at this point?



United is not filling all seats in fact less than 10% of UA flights operate at over 60% capacity.

United still serves hot food and snacks onboard our flights.
Food is still one of those items where customers feel like the less people interacting with my food the better, so your criticism of UA's onboard food service is completely unwarranted at this time.


United may not be filling all seats on every flight, but that doesn't mean they aren't potentially selling all seats. I was on a flight this past weekend that only had 2 empty seats, another that was only 20% full. It is a spit and sputter load factor right now. But my 787 a month ago had every seat in the J cabin filled. And no, there were NO hot meals, just a snack box offered. I was glad just to get ice back.

And as a paying first class customer and as a physician who has taken care of over 400 Covid positive patients in the long term care setting, my criticism is both warranted and backed with experience and preference. I completely understand how the information and concern has been a fruit basket turnover mess.
 
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DLHAM
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:40 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


I would assume this would be when they will announce the W20 and S21 schedules. As another poster said, they still need to figure out what they will do with the 10/24 and 25th resumptions. What could be axed internationally?


I think quite a few european destinations will go. AA and DL already announced quite a few dropped destinations in Europe, I think United will do the same.
I could see Stockholm, Berlin, Prague, Oporto and Palermo and Naples getting dropped. Shannon and Glasgow in danger as well ...
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:02 pm

DLHAM wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


I would assume this would be when they will announce the W20 and S21 schedules. As another poster said, they still need to figure out what they will do with the 10/24 and 25th resumptions. What could be axed internationally?


I think quite a few european destinations will go. AA and DL already announced quite a few dropped destinations in Europe, I think United will do the same.
I could see Stockholm, Berlin, Prague, Oporto and Palermo and Naples getting dropped. Shannon and Glasgow in danger as well ...


Hi DLHAM,
Have they started to zero out some of the international flights past October besides the EWR flights mentioned in previous posts?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:08 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:

I would assume this would be when they will announce the W20 and S21 schedules. As another poster said, they still need to figure out what they will do with the 10/24 and 25th resumptions. What could be axed internationally?


I think quite a few european destinations will go. AA and DL already announced quite a few dropped destinations in Europe, I think United will do the same.
I could see Stockholm, Berlin, Prague, Oporto and Palermo and Naples getting dropped. Shannon and Glasgow in danger as well ...


Hi DLHAM,
Have they started to zero out some of the international flights past October besides the EWR flights mentioned in previous posts?


No
 
jayunited
Posts: 3028
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:59 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:

UA is filling all seats in the fact that they are available to board to actual capacity, opposed to DL at 60% firm. Whether they actually sell that many is a different matter


My understanding of the word fill must be different because the word fill means to put something or someone in an empty space, or to occupy an empty space.

For the statement to be true "UA is filling all seats" UA's load factor would have to be 100%, 100% of the time. There is a difference between offering something for sale and having someone actually buy the product. The facts are UA is selling 100% of capacity, however less than 10% of all UA's flights depart over 60% capacity. So to say UA is filling all seats is by definition wrong, we are not filling all of our seats.

sldispatcher wrote:
But my 787 a month ago had every seat in the J cabin filled. And no, there were NO hot meals, just a snack box offered. I was glad just to get ice back.

And as a paying first class customer and as a physician who has taken care of over 400 Covid positive patients in the long term care setting, my criticism is both warranted and backed with experience and preference. I completely understand how the information and concern has been a fruit basket turnover mess.


The 787 flight that you referenced between which 2 hubs were you flying? I'm only asking because I thought I was specific when I stated hot food is still served on international flights and most former p.s. routes. My apologies I guess I should have been more specific when I stated UA serves hot food and snacks. I should have included hot food has been removed from every domestic flight except for EWR-SFO-LAX.

To be honest I believe at some point the hot first class domestic meal will return (just my opinion). But at the same time I understand why UA has remove them. Is UA saving money of course they are but the facts are early in this pandemic more domestic first class and Polaris meals were being tossed in the trash than were being eaten. Even internationally UA is no longer (say for example on a 789) boarding 48 Polaris meals and 204 coach meals. If Polaris is only booked to 12 (for example ORD-LHR) UA may only board 18-22 Polaris meals to cover upgrades or nonrevs. Pre-pandemic it didn't matter what Polaris was booked to or how many open seats there were in coach UA boarded 48 Polaris meals and 204 coach meals on international flights.

I understand there is a lot of miss infomation out there about COVID but the facts are more food was being thrown out than were being consumed. Even now with UA scaling back the total number of meals loaded on international and former p.s. flights there is still a high number of passengers who are choosing not to eat onboard.

People see this as a cost cutting move, I 100% agree, but the flip side that most don't see is the waste. Keep in mind UA (like most airlines) keeps track of everything. Meals that have never been touched are being tossed into the trash at a much higher percentage now days than before the COVID it is a trend that shows no signs of change. I understand your criticism over the lack of hot meals in domestic first. However, the two biggest complaints UA received early on and have address was the lack of ice and the removal of alcohol. UA has ice onboard every flight and we've resume alcohol service onboard the aircraft.
 
EssentialPowr
Posts: 1732
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 am

sldispatcher wrote:
And as a paying first class customer and as a physician who has taken care of over 400 Covid positive patients in the long term care setting, my criticism is both warranted and backed with experience and preference. I completely understand how the information and concern has been a fruit basket turnover mess.


Why not discuss it with United? It baffles me when people on a forum gripe, and then of course post their resume as if that adds credibility. If the product wasn’t what you expected (did you ask before you bought the ticket? Seems like a reasonable question from a “physician that has taken care of” blAh blah. If they’d served a hot meal you be here telling us how irresponsible it was to be serving people?

United as a Company is doing a solid job. Don’t like the product? Go somewhere else. As Gordon B once said (paraphrase) “there are some people who’s business we just don’t want.”
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:31 am

codc10 wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Does anyone who works at UA know if the October schedules are now firm? I'm looking at booking an October ticket, and it seems like there is more capacity on some routes in October than there is in September. Given that the funding dries up the end of this month, I'm a bit hesitant to think that UA really intends to fly what is loaded in right now.


I'd wait and see for the schedule release this weekend. Seems that UA is holding off on finalizing domestic schedules to 30 days from the start of the month. Right now, in most markets, it is the pre-COVID schedule, and, as we know, UA will not be able to staff this level of flying. I would expect significant changes to the negative.

As an example, ExpressJet is ceasing all operations on 30SEP, but the schedule for October still has a full slate of XJT flying out of both IAH and ORD. XJT has actually been out of ORD since August and is flying a relatively limited IAH schedule this month as it winds down, transferring aircraft to C5 and storage at IGM.



Thank you for letting me know the schedule updates this weekend. Specifically, I'm looking at IAH-EWR flights, and for October they are practically hourly, which I just don't see as realistic. I would prefer not to book something that gets canceled out and moved.

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