Wow. Major clap back at AA with SFO-Bangalore. Also quickly filling the SAA void with EWR-JNB and IAD-ACC. IAD-LOS is also exciting to see.

Surprised there was nothing with South America.

Mostly Summer 2021 starts.

United release: https://hub.united.com/2020-09-09-unite ... 35777.html

Looks like you IAH FBs got hosed again.

SFO-BLR will print money for UA. prior threads have detailed how technically challenging the route is, but the 789 once again shows how capable it can be.

Here it is:

https://hub.united.com/2020-09-09-united-airlines-strengthens-global-network-adding-new-nonstops-to-africa-india-and-hawaii-2647535777.html

SFO-BLR! Finally!!!! A dream come true!

SFO-BLR. A route first rumoured by KF and AI in the mid 2000s but not official until nearly 15 years later. Congrats to UA! Curious to see if AI US flights can survive into 2021; they have competition on every route now.

rnav2dlrey wrote:

SFO-BLR will print money for UA. prior threads have detailed how technically challenging the route is, but the 789 once again shows how capable it can be.

Out of curiosity, would you be able to link these threads?

Thanks, EI121

ddaly241 wrote:

What about EWR-MNL, huge Fillipino population in NJ and NYC and Philly area.

Long, thin route. Not likely. Business traffic small compared to VFR.

UA served ACC before, from IAD. Not sure about LOS or if it was just from IAH. UA had planned to launch ORD-DEL in the late 1990s with the 747-400 but it never happened. Not sure if it was a range issue, or something else.

Cointrin330 wrote:

UA served ACC before, from IAD. Not sure about LOS or if it was just from IAH. UA had planned to launch ORD-DEL in the late 1990s with the 747-400 but it never happened. Not sure if it was a range issue, or something else.

ORD-DEL was scheduled to start 10/31/01...9/11 killed the proposed route.

All great adds!! I wish them the best!! Exciting to see

Cointrin330 wrote:

UA served ACC before, from IAD. Not sure about LOS or if it was just from IAH. UA had planned to launch ORD-DEL in the late 1990s with the 747-400 but it never happened. Not sure if it was a range issue, or something else.

UA had IAD-ACC/LOS and those got cut shortly after the merger. IAH-LOS got cut a few years after.

Disappointed to see IAH not get anything this round, but I'm happy to see UA thinking out of the box and being competitive!

DL will feel the heat on the EWR - JNB route. DL might want to consider getting a plane that can fly non-stop from JNB to ATL now that the 777's are gone (or will be soon). Not many people will want to make multiple stops returning to the states.

Delta: JNB - CPT - ATL - XXX
UA: JNB - EWR - XXX

Wow - two carriers flying US-BLR. Seems like one will be likely be run off sooner than later, but maybe I'm wrong

lga31vfr wrote:

DL will feel the heat on the EWR - JNB route. DL might want to consider getting a plane that can fly non-stop from JNB to ATL now that the 777's are gone (or will be soon). Not many people will want to make multiple stops returning to the states.

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.

bravotango75 wrote:

Looks like you IAH FBs got hosed again.

Considering we werent expecting anything and nothing was launched to Latin America, we dont feel hosed. If anything its nice to have more options. Being hosed would be reducing flights at IAH at a higher rate relative to other hubs but that has not been the case.

But then again this all about your obsession with Houston and the competition you feel between Houston and Boston that no one else cares about.

Irehdna wrote:

SFO-BLR. A route first rumoured by KF and AI in the mid 2000s but not official until nearly 15 years later. Congrats to UA! Curious to see if AI US flights can survive into 2021; they have competition on every route now.

AI will (most likely) reduce frequency on SFO but it will be interesting to see what impact this has on EK

Irehdna wrote:

lga31vfr wrote:

DL will feel the heat on the EWR - JNB route. DL might want to consider getting a plane that can fly non-stop from JNB to ATL now that the 777's are gone (or will be soon). Not many people will want to make multiple stops returning to the states.

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.

Can DL's 359 make it NS JNB-JFK?

Regardless, these are all fantastic additions. UA is definitely the international champion of flying.

Ishrion wrote:

Anyone else feel like this may ironically be more historic than their "historic" announcement back in December 2018?

Yeah... I'll go with this.

From Washington Dulles:
- 3x weekly Accra on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021
- 3x weekly Lagos on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021

From Newark:
- Daily Johannesburg on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021
- 4x weekly Kaluhui on the 767-300ER beginning Summer 2021

From San Francisco:
- Daily Bangalore on the 787-9 beginning Spring 2021

From Chicago:
- 4x weekly Kona on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021
- Daily New Delhi on the 787-9 beginning Winter 2020

https://hub.united.com/2020-09-09-unite ... 35777.html

TWA772LR wrote:

Cointrin330 wrote:

UA served ACC before, from IAD. Not sure about LOS or if it was just from IAH. UA had planned to launch ORD-DEL in the late 1990s with the 747-400 but it never happened. Not sure if it was a range issue, or something else.

UA had IAD-ACC/LOS and those got cut shortly after the merger. IAH-LOS got cut a few years after.

Disappointed to see IAH not get anything this round, but I'm happy to see UA thinking out of the box and being competitive!

It was actually IAD-ACC-LOS because the PMUA crews refused to overnight in Lagos.

lga31vfr wrote:

Can DL's 359 make it NS JNB-JFK?

Regardless, these are all fantastic additions. UA is definitely the international champion of flying.

SAA made JNB-JFK work on he 359 last winter (for the brief period of time they operated them).

calpsafltskeds wrote:

772 Domestic A and 4 E units (219-222) Stored: ROW 7, ORD 2, SFO 1, - Flying/short term parked: 13, usually 10-13, flying daily.

Just thinking about the 772A's. How long will they stick around with so many other a/c grounded? Where do they fall in terms of fuel efficiency? Just thinking about the terrible passenger experience on a flight like ORD>OGG for 9 hours. How would that compare to the 78J in terms of trip cost? 78J could do more cargo too. From a consumer perspective, if you are a Midwest/East Coast flyer and can connect to a 772A in ORD or DEN vs. a AA reconfigured 772 via DFW, it's a stark comparison in the experiences, not to mention the class of services offered. (same goes for HNL flights).

I know UA reconfigured one 772A unit with PTV's and a few more lie flat IPTE seats to help improve the passenger experience. Due to $$ constraints, that is on hold. Would it ever start back up or just run these for a few years and retire them now?

catiii wrote:

HouStrategies wrote:

The really intriguing alternative that remains: Tampa. The Tampa Bay metro area has a population of 3.2 million, the 18th-largest metro in the country - larger than Denver, Charlotte, or Salt Lake City which all support substantial hubs.

Neither DEN, CLT, or SLC have a major international airport 85 miles to their northeast, or a regional airport 60 miles due south.

TPA does.

DEN has COS right about 60 miles due south. CLT has GSP and GSO within about 75 miles. SLC is more isolated but there's some service at PVU.

Still, the larger point remains in that the traffic leaks toward DEN, CLT, and SLC. Some of the RSW traffic definitely leaks toward TPA, but some TPA traffic doubtlessly leaks toward MCO and the huge number of flights and low fare seats offered there.

HouStrategies wrote:

The really intriguing alternative that remains: Tampa. The Tampa Bay metro area has a population of 3.2 million, the 18th-largest metro in the country - larger than Denver, Charlotte, or Salt Lake City which all support substantial hubs. It's also one of the fastest-growing (nearby Lakeland as well), and has manageable low-fare competition. The housing is far more affordable than the Miami area. It's also about an hour from Walt Disney World, the largest tourist attraction in the country (soon to be connected by the Brightline train). And it's not just tourists - there are plenty of business travelers as well (United's core market). Tampa has been steadily growing its corporate presence - especially financial - and it's the center of Florida's High Tech Corridor.

As has been pointed out repeatedly already, Tampa lacks the geography for domestic connecting traffic that the other three cities you mention all have. This means we're really looking at a hub connecting domestic markets to Latin America and the Caribbean. There are two problems with the proposal.

1) It's largely redundant for UA so they'd be cannibalizing some of their own traffic. IAH works just fine as a connecting point for about 2/3 of the country geographically. IAD is a perfectly good connecting point for the upper midwest and northeast to these markets, so really all that's new traffic for UA is southeast to international markets.

2) TPA demand to those markets is far smaller than from MIA or ATL. The O&D side of the proposal is weak and the flights will be even more reliant on connecting traffic than AA or DL. A high cost airline running a small hub for low yield traffic will get crushed.

Also, I'm not sure why you highlight housing costs versus Miami. Are you making a point about disposable income? Miami appears to have higher per capita GDP so without researching it further I'm not sure there's any advantage here for Tampa.

Florida's High Tech Corridor isn't Silicon Valley. It's a grand sounding name attached to an economic development initiative not dissimilar to what most other states have set up.

Irehdna wrote:

lga31vfr wrote:

Can DL's 359 make it NS JNB-JFK?

Regardless, these are all fantastic additions. UA is definitely the international champion of flying.

SAA made JNB-JFK work on he 359 last winter (for the brief period of time they operated them).

Also if UA can operate JNB-EWR nonstop on the 789 the A359 should perform no worse on JNB-JFK.

It’s getting the A350 the extra 400 nm to ATL nonstop from JNB that is a challenge.

cynlb wrote:

Maybe they should make the announcement like a gender reveal party

Without starting any fires.

Anyone know when these will be for sale?

Dang. Bold adds!

Nicely done by UA.

Coalways wrote:

Great way of marketing especially during this time! My guesses

LAX-TLV
IAD-ACC
EWR-OGG
IAH-South America
SFO-Bali

Not sure of the other 2

Agreed, great marketing, especially for aviation geeks like us and for the “civilians” during the time of restricted travelling.

I agree with all of the above but I can’t see Bali, given the pandemic, there are heavy restrictions to enter Bali.

The 789 is gonna very interesting from JNB-EWR, We know the A359 has a bit more range and also more thrust and wing which is a huge advantage at altitude.

So, two routes to backfill for South African, two premium leisure routes to Hawaii, plus a large expansion to India. And Lagos in large part for Oil and Gas in Houston (one has to believe it will be an IAH-IAD-LOS same plane service).

Alias1024 wrote:

Also, I'm not sure why you highlight housing costs versus Miami. Are you making a point about disposable income? Miami appears to have higher per capita GDP so without researching it further I'm not sure there's any advantage here for Tampa.

National migration patterns are heading to lower-cost areas. When northerners are picking where to go, MIA/FLL area is much more expensive than TPA.

Irehdna wrote:

lga31vfr wrote:

DL will feel the heat on the EWR - JNB route. DL might want to consider getting a plane that can fly non-stop from JNB to ATL now that the 777's are gone (or will be soon). Not many people will want to make multiple stops returning to the states.

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

dmstorm22 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

San Francisco to Bangalore
Newark to Kaluhui and Johannesburg
Washington to Accra and Lagos
Chicago to Kona and Delhi

https://twitter.com/SweeneyABC/status/1 ... 3300747264

Amazing.

God bless and Good luck to United. Who even knows if some of these are allowed to run (or passengers are allowed to enter without massive quarantine restrictions) when they want to start

Confused by the JNB flight, I guess I'll need to read the full report if this has any impact on the EWR-CPT route which from what I understood did quite well last winter season. Also to start it in spring is interesting, when the liesure traffic dries up.

I’m with you brother. This smells of build and it might come, but probably won’t. Well I hope it works. The BKK guess made more sense to me.

Irehdna wrote:

lga31vfr wrote:

DL will feel the heat on the EWR - JNB route. DL might want to consider getting a plane that can fly non-stop from JNB to ATL now that the 777's are gone (or will be soon). Not many people will want to make multiple stops returning to the states.

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.

Very nice adds.

Will be interesting to see how DL replies on JNB / CPT ... and if AA might also consider South Africa, but then from which hub ... MIA ?

SAA isn’t coming back anytime soon. UA is smart like DL flying to the Christian countries in West Africa and South Africa. I also wonder if they can make JNB - EWR with a decent payload on the 789 as DL thinks it can’t take full payload on the A359 on JNB - ATL forcing a tech stop in CPT! Also can the 789 make ORD-BOM? What about SFO-BOM as BLR is farther.

For as conservative as UA has been through the pandemic, this seems extra aggressive. Very risky marketing, but I dig it. Get folks excited during this downturn, create a drumbeat of positive news (leading on the change fees), hope for the borders to reopen by next spring. It's a roll of the dice for sure but it could pay off.

MAH4546 wrote:

Irehdna wrote:

lga31vfr wrote:

DL will feel the heat on the EWR - JNB route. DL might want to consider getting a plane that can fly non-stop from JNB to ATL now that the 777's are gone (or will be soon). Not many people will want to make multiple stops returning to the states.

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.

Where would AA fly from? PHL?

Antarius wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

Irehdna wrote:

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.

Where would AA fly from? PHL?

JFK as part of the JetBlue partnership.

Ishrion wrote:

Antarius wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.

Where would AA fly from? PHL?

JFK as part of the JetBlue partnership.

Ah - could be. Forgot about that.

rnav2dlrey wrote:

SFO-BLR will print money for UA. prior threads have detailed how technically challenging the route is, but the 789 once again shows how capable it can be.

UA did LAX-SIN with 789 (albeit limited payload on the westbound leg) and that was through the brutal pacific winds. SFO-BLR would be mostly a polar route, so should be not much of a problem for the 789. PER-LHR is 260nm longer and QF have been doing that for a while. They do seat 21 fewer people though.

Considering the aggressive expansion in BLR by the large companies (accelerated by Covid even more), this route should print money. Although most tech companies only allow Y/PY travel these days.

Love to see adds like these. As commercial aviation enthusiasts, we had dedicated special fleets (CRJ550, 767 super-premium, new types, etc) and many new P2P/ULH right up until covid. Airlines will no doubt make announcements and then adjustments, but the well run airlines will position themselves for success in future. Those are long thin routes for Hawaii, cool adds.

x1234 wrote:

UA is smart like DL flying to the Christian countries in West Africa and South Africa.

I don't think religion has anything to do with it. The transport demand is tied to oil/gas development and VFR (from a very short list of U.S. origins). We're not talking Easter trips to The Vatican.

DylanHarvey wrote:

The 789 is gonna very interesting from JNB-EWR, We know the A359 has a bit more range and also more thrust and wing which is a huge advantage at altitude.

The nautical mile difference between JNB-EWR is 6943nm, JNB-EWR is 7334nm miles. I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make in terms of required fuel. Also we know from Delta employees Delta moves a lot of cargo out of JNB, we will have to see if UA tries to pick up a cargo contract or two, or if this flight will operate with just passengers and bags only out of JNB.

I think UA is jumping on this route because of South African Airways departure left a void and I'm guessing UA wanted to jump on it and plug up the opening before Delta.

As far as the rest of the announcement I'm excited and pleased. I'm excited to see United get back into ACC/LOC with the right aircraft!!! The last time UA operated IAD-Africa they were on 763s and before the routes even launched people knew the 763 was the wrong aircraft for those routes. Those flights (inbound and outbound) were weight restricted everyday. The 788 will do great on these routes out of IAD.

The seasonal additions of ORD-KOA (long over due) and EWR-OGG are great.

For years now we have been hearing UA is looking at a new destination within India and every time I thought UA would pull the trigger they would announce another route and leave India out. Finally UA is pulling the trigger with BLR. I was hoping for ORD-BOM but ORD-India has been talked about for years now it is good to see UA announce ORD-DEL.

Really like the EWR-JNB decision, fills the Star void immediately.

I originally predicted DL would try JFK-JNB when they retired the 77L as I had a hunch SAA wouldn't return, since they could go non-stop on the A350.

AaronPGH wrote:

For as conservative as UA has been through the pandemic, this seems extra aggressive. Very risky marketing, but I dig it. Get folks excited during this downturn, create a drumbeat of positive news (leading on the change fees), hope for the borders to reopen by next spring. It's a roll of the dice for sure but it could pay off.

Oscar's best decision he ever made at UA, hiring Scott Kirby. He's not known for being a slouch

cityshuttle wrote:

Very nice adds. Will be interesting to see how DL replies on JNB / CPT ... and if AA might also consider South Africa, but then from which hub ... MIA ?

UA is taking over the Star Alliance traffic as South African fades and, possibly, ultimately fails completely - especially on long haul routes.

I could see DL adding JFK-JNB/CPT as traffic to South Africa regains strength. They do seem to be at a disadvantage without the 787, however.

I'm surprised how 'sensible' these routes seem (as in, in a non-COVID world these are reasonable asks).

Given the world we live in and the complete unknown around business traffic at all in 2021, I figured they would take that opportunity to try out leisure/VFR routes that otherwise would've been an oppty cost loss compared to business routes.

Something like MNL or BKK, or more LATAM/South America.

I guess in some places they are filling gaps that are now open (NYC-JNB, IAD-ACC), but routes like ORD-DEL and SFO-BLR have been disussed amongst us here for a long time.

As a United 1K, I wish them the best as they look to continue to offer such a diverse Int'l route network, but I am so perplexed by the metrics behind them announcing these with no real security these routes can launch when they want them to.

Really exciting adds. The marketing behind it was also fun and a great way to engage people and hype it. This definitely was worth the hype. Congrats United. DEL now has 3 routes on UA. And 5 daily flights eventually. Hope BOM also gets some love.