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KLMatSJC
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:00 pm

So why did the video show LAX and DEN?
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DL747400
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:01 pm

With UA planning SFO-BLR, there goes any hopes for AA to be successful on SEA-BLR.
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jayunited
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:13 pm

DL747400 wrote:
With UA planning SFO-BLR, there goes any hopes for AA to be successful on SEA-BLR.



I was just thinking the same thing, although Seattle has a lot of tech companies, Silicone Valley is still the king. I'm sure AA was banking on their new partner AS to shuttle travelers up from SFO to SEA where they would then board AA's SEA-BLR flight. Now that UA intends to launch its own SFO-BLR flight it may throw a wrinkle into AA's SEA-BLR flight.
 
MAH4546
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:15 pm

Antarius wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

I think DL announcing JFK-JNB is all but inevitable at this point. That and making ATL-CPT nonstop both directions.


U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.


Where would AA fly from? PHL?


Miami is a decent local market to South Africa (third largest South African diaspora after Perth and London) and has great feed, but JFK is unserved without SAA and a larger local market also with decent feed. So probably one of those two over PHL.
a.
 
raylee67
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:27 pm

I am surprised it takes so long for BLR-SFO to materialize. I suppose ACC and LOS would be on one route, probably IAD-ACC-LOS, or even triangular routing. I wonder if UA has 5th rights on ACC-LOS if it's really flown as IAD-ACC-LOS?
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theasianguy
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:29 pm

Great additions for United. I applaud them for their confidence and forward thinking during the pandemic.

I am surprised that not a single route to South America was added despite several references (alpaca and weather map) in the video.
 
Lootess
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:36 pm

DL747400 wrote:
With UA planning SFO-BLR, there goes any hopes for AA to be successful on SEA-BLR.


Yep, no reason to connect.

Tech sector can just take the drive up to SFO from Mountain View, Menlo Park, or Cupertino.
 
Coexstud
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:36 pm

AA94 wrote:
EWR-OGG is 4903 miles according to Great Circle, and those numerical tiles appear alongside a photo of the New York Public Library lions and a lei

Nope the lei and lion both represent Singapore especially the lion
 
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Amwest2United
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:38 pm

Ishrion wrote:
From Washington Dulles:
- 3x weekly Accra on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021
- 3x weekly Lagos on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021

From Newark:
- Daily Johannesburg on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021
- 4x weekly Kaluhui on the 767-300ER beginning Summer 2021

From San Francisco:
- Daily Bangalore on the 787-9 beginning Spring 2021

From Chicago:
- 4x weekly Kona on the 787-8 beginning Spring 2021
- Daily New Delhi on the 787-9 beginning Winter 2020

https://hub.united.com/2020-09-09-unite ... 35777.html


EWR-JNB should show a B787-9 instead of a -8

Great adds
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lga31vfr
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:47 pm

jayunited wrote:
enilria wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:

As far as EWR-CPT that route will continue to operate seasonally, we will have to wait and see if we are able to have a season this year but yes last year EWR-CPT according to UA did quite well or as they say exceeded expectations.

.


Jayunited, I enjoy reading your posts. You bring a fascinating and at times exhilarating point of view to aviation. Just curious as to whether UA made this public that EWR - CPT exceeded expectations or if its from a purely speculative point of view. It looks like its still going to be 3x weekly. CPT is one of my favorite destinations and now I have a choice to fly a US flag carrier non stop from NY, Thanks.
Last edited by lga31vfr on Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
AA94
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:48 pm

Coexstud wrote:
AA94 wrote:
EWR-OGG is 4903 miles according to Great Circle, and those numerical tiles appear alongside a photo of the New York Public Library lions and a lei

Nope the lei and lion both represent Singapore especially the lion


And yet, United announced EWR-OGG and nothing to/from Singapore. Not to mention it was literally a photo of the lions outside the NYPL ...
Last edited by AA94 on Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
andrew1996
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:48 pm

Does UA have enough 789s to launch these routes on top of its pre-covid flights or are we seeing cuts? I recall the 789s being stretched quite thin before COVID-19 even started and now this seems like the routes will require 789s too. The 789s are also featured on ULR that take up many frames. For example, double daily service to SIN (if it stays) requires 3-4 frames to operate and United when it had just 20 789s would have been dedicating like 20% of its 789s to a single destination. . Add in double daily to Sydney and that is another 3-4 frames.

Also, why was IAD chosen for many of the African routes over EWR? Was it slot constraints at EWR? I know IAD is a hub too and can feed pretty well into Canada/USA connections

Any announcements on route cuts?
 
AA94
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:54 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Also, why was IAD chosen for many of the African routes over EWR? Was it slot constraints at EWR? I know IAD is a hub too and can feed pretty well into Canada/USA connections


The DC area has a huge African diaspora, so it makes sense to capture that local traffic plus connections flowing over IAD.
 
sabby
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:13 pm

Lootess wrote:


DL would likely be fine with A350 on JFK-JNB simply because of cargo, it's just they likely won't have enough of these to have another JNB route in the near future. There are 2 recent deliveries and obviously those are surely backfilling 777 routes.


I'm sure Airbus would be very happy to build Delta some A350s as soon as they want considering the amount of deferments will be due to covid.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:18 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Does UA have enough 789s to launch these routes on top of its pre-covid flights or are we seeing cuts? I recall the 789s being stretched quite thin before COVID-19 even started and now this seems like the routes will require 789s too. The 789s are also featured on ULR that take up many frames. For example, double daily service to SIN (if it stays) requires 3-4 frames to operate and United when it had just 20 789s would have been dedicating like 20% of its 789s to a single destination. . Add in double daily to Sydney and that is another 3-4 frames.


United could replace the 787-9s that are flying shorter routes with the 767s, 788s, 78Xs, etc. They also have a few more 789s on order.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:24 pm

super cool. the nonstop Chicago to Delhi flight works perfectly for me and my family.

bravo for the africa adds. i believe sUA flew IAD-ACC-LOS-IAD in a triangle route at one point, but my memory could be off here.
 
jayunited
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:28 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Does UA have enough 789s to launch these routes on top of its pre-covid flights or are we seeing cuts? I recall the 789s being stretched quite thin before COVID-19 even started and now this seems like the routes will require 789s too. The 789s are also featured on ULR that take up many frames. For example, double daily service to SIN (if it stays) requires 3-4 frames to operate and United when it had just 20 789s would have been dedicating like 20% of its 789s to a single destination. . Add in double daily to Sydney and that is another 3-4 frames.

Also, why was IAD chosen for many of the African routes over EWR? Was it slot constraints at EWR? I know IAD is a hub too and can feed pretty well into Canada/USA connections

Any announcements on route cuts?



United has 32 789s in service with another 6 frames scheduled for delivery between this year and mid 2021. Also another 8 78Xs are scheduled for delivery in 2021 this in addition to the 13 already delivered. And while 30 of our 77A/77E frames are in long term storage at ROW there is still 44 frames 77A/77E's that are either in service or short term storage at our hubs.

Even it we set aside all of the 777s, at some point in 2021 UA's entire 787 fleet 8/9/10s will total 71 frames in service.
 
iadadd
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:34 pm

Happy to see UA is dedicated to growing IAD despite these troubled times. Also, this is probably a confirmation that SAA isn't making a comeback.

I'm assuming we're going to see a late night departure from IAD, morning arrival in to ACC/LOS. Evening departure from ACC/LOS with a morning arrival into IAD. This was the schedule last time UA operated West Africa flights from IAD
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:38 pm

Lootess wrote:
Tech sector can just take the drive up to SFO from Mountain View, Menlo Park, or Cupertino.

Helps a lot too that most of these airlines already have corporate contracts with UA.
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Antarius
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:45 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.


Where would AA fly from? PHL?


Miami is a decent local market to South Africa (third largest South African diaspora after Perth and London) and has great feed, but JFK is unserved without SAA and a larger local market also with decent feed. So probably one of those two over PHL.


Good point - MIA might be an interesting try. Although that is a long flight - would the 789 make it?
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:47 pm

Will these new India flights have late night arrivals/departures into/from India?
 
dmstorm22
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:55 pm

lga31vfr wrote:
jayunited wrote:
enilria wrote:


Jayunited, I enjoy reading your posts. You bring a fascinating and at times exhilarating point of view to aviation. Just curious as to whether UA made this public that EWR - CPT exceeded expectations or if its from a purely speculative point of view. It looks like its still going to be 3x weekly. CPT is one of my favorite destinations and now I have a choice to fly a US flag carrier non stop from NY, Thanks.


I have zero inside info or hard numbers, but I took this flight both ways in February (ahh, remember the good ol' days when you could travel!), and it was quite full on both. It was also full upfront (admittedly, many could've been using GPUs / plus-points like I was). I spoke with some of the crew who while it is still anecdotal were saying it was quite full.

I think they'll keep the 3x/week (assume the 2020-21 run for the flight is axed) as it caters wholly to liesure/VFR with limited biz connections. Especially if whatever limited connecting traffic they got ex-CPT can be easily routed through JNB.
 
drdisque
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:16 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
UA served ACC before, from IAD. Not sure about LOS or if it was just from IAH. UA had planned to launch ORD-DEL in the late 1990s with the 747-400 but it never happened. Not sure if it was a range issue, or something else.

UA had IAD-ACC/LOS and those got cut shortly after the merger. IAH-LOS got cut a few years after.

Disappointed to see IAH not get anything this round, but I'm happy to see UA thinking out of the box and being competitive!


It was actually IAD-ACC-LOS because the PMUA crews refused to overnight in Lagos.


It also launched as just IAD-ACC and operated that way for a few months before Nigerian authorities granted the LOS flght.

Nigeria wanted UA to send a 777. UA knew that wouldn't be economically feasible, so they started the 767 just flying to ACC to show the Nigerians that they were serious - it was a 767 or nothing for Lagos.

Then the flight moved to IAH, was operated by a 787 and lost the ACC stop.
 
lga31vfr
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:21 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
lga31vfr wrote:
jayunited wrote:


Jayunited, I enjoy reading your posts. You bring a fascinating and at times exhilarating point of view to aviation. Just curious as to whether UA made this public that EWR - CPT exceeded expectations or if its from a purely speculative point of view. It looks like its still going to be 3x weekly. CPT is one of my favorite destinations and now I have a choice to fly a US flag carrier non stop from NY, Thanks.


I have zero inside info or hard numbers, but I took this flight both ways in February (ahh, remember the good ol' days when you could travel!), and it was quite full on both. It was also full upfront (admittedly, many could've been using GPUs / plus-points like I was). I spoke with some of the crew who while it is still anecdotal were saying it was quite full.

I think they'll keep the 3x/week (assume the 2020-21 run for the flight is axed) as it caters wholly to liesure/VFR with limited biz connections. Especially if whatever limited connecting traffic they got ex-CPT can be easily routed through JNB.


And, in the airline business, "exceeds expectations" means what? load percentage, profit, both, some other metric(s)?
 
alfa164
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:27 pm

DL747400 wrote:
With UA planning SFO-BLR, there goes any hopes for AA to be successful on SEA-BLR.


I was thinking the same thing, but I figured that, if I put it in writing, the AA fan club would pounce all over me!


lga31vfr wrote:
Jayunited, I enjoy reading your posts. You bring a fascinating and at times exhilarating point of view to aviation.


:checkmark: When I first saw the "Jayunited" name, I thought, "Ugh! Just another UA fanboy!" Actually, nothing could be further from the truth; he is a reasoned source of factual information, with a unique style that is both readable and informative.

Thanks, Jay - wherever you are!
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jmc1975
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:39 pm

The huge downside to renaming threads like this is that the press release should be the original post. It’s ridiculous to have to fumble through numerous posts and pages just to find the lousy press release. Can somebody please start a fresh thread on this?
.......
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:03 pm

Please keep the thread on topic — personal comments will be removed. Please just be respectful and discuss the topic.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:05 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
The huge downside to renaming threads like this is that the press release should be the original post. It’s ridiculous to have to fumble through numerous posts and pages just to find the lousy press release. Can somebody please start a fresh thread on this?

I don't disagree, but our policies don't permit us to edit posts. I encourage you to express your views on this by creating a thread in the Site Related Forum. It will give us a chance to discuss this in a more appropriate place, and hopefully find a solution.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:09 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Will these new India flights have late night arrivals/departures into/from India?


It's interesting, UA may very well stagger them out. Post pandemic, EWR-DEL is still an evening-evening (9PM-9PM) flight, but EWR-BOM is now a morning-morning (8AM-8AM) flight eastbound, and a daytime flight westbound.

My guess is that ORD-DEL will be an afternoon departure (4PM) & evening arrival (7PM). DEL-ORD will be in the night. SFO-BLR will probably be a double night flight, from 11PM SFO to 6AM+2 BLR. BLR-SFO will be over the pacific, and will be 9AM-11AM.
Last edited by Irehdna on Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:12 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

U.S. airlines are only allowed 21 flights a week between U.S. and ZA.

I wonder if AA rushes to apply for the last four (or competitively seeks to take 7 and makes it a competition) in a case of FOMO.


Where would AA fly from? PHL?


Miami is a decent local market to South Africa (third largest South African diaspora after Perth and London) and has great feed, but JFK is unserved without SAA and a larger local market also with decent feed. So probably one of those two over PHL.


Thats actually not true (about the diaspora). Miami has the 7th largest South African community in the US. Worldwide, Dubai and New Zealand will also be far larger.

These were the largest South African communities as of 2019.
Los Angeles/Riverside - 8,611
New York - 7,333
Washington DC/Baltimore - 5,310
San Francisco/Oakland - 4,552
Dallas/Fort Worth - 4,284
Atlanta - 3,782
Philadelphia - 3,246
Miami/For Lauderdale - 3,211
Boston/Providence - 3,107
Houston - 2,775
Seattle/Tacoma - 2,773
Phoenix - 2,482
Chicago - 2,030
Denver - 1,910
San Diego - 1,897
Minneapolis/St. Paul - 1,578
Detroit - 1,235
Portland, OR - 1,044
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:15 pm

It's not simply UA vs AA to BLR...it's Oneworld vs StarAlliance. I think both AA and UA can be successful on their new BLR service.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:16 pm

fun2fly:
Since the 787 fleet is pretty much full bore on longer cargo trips, the 772A units provide lots of seats and is lighter than the 772E. Its not the ideal aircraft, but most are flown on Hawaii, GUM and shorter hub-to hub routes - their ownership cost should be low to counteract the higher fuel and maintenance costs. If they come up on a huge D check, you may see them parked and have 772Es take their place.
 
CONTACREW
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:33 pm

Irehdna wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Will these new India flights have late night arrivals/departures into/from India?


It's interesting, UA may very well stagger them out. Post pandemic, EWR-DEL is still an evening-evening (9PM-9PM) flight, but EWR-BOM is now a morning-morning (8AM-8AM) flight eastbound, and a daytime flight westbound.

My guess is that ORD-DEL will be an afternoon departure (4PM) & evening arrival (7PM). DEL-ORD will be in the night. SFO-BLR will probably be a double night flight, from 11PM SFO to 6AM+2 BLR. BLR-SFO will be over the pacific, and will be 9AM-11AM.


EWR-BOM departs 825p
BOM-EWR departs 1120p

I fully expect the ORD-DEL flight to be a late night flight in both directions as well.
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:38 pm

I think the India and Africa adds show how UA is taking advantage of people not wanting to connect through third countries. US-India is a huge market with strong business, VFR and tourist traffic but also high competition with EU and ME airlines. Strong VFR routes are key during Covid because that traffic will continue even if business traffic is down. Add to that the reduced business traffic that no longer wants to connect in DXB or CDG, and UA could have winners here. Also, US airlines have all scaled back their EU flights. There is less pressure to push connecting India pax through EU hubs just to fill transatlantic seats. These adds will affect the ME3’s US flights (ME3 get people to fly to JNB from the US as well as India)
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:41 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Will these new India flights have late night arrivals/departures into/from India?


It's interesting, UA may very well stagger them out. Post pandemic, EWR-DEL is still an evening-evening (9PM-9PM) flight, but EWR-BOM is now a morning-morning (8AM-8AM) flight eastbound, and a daytime flight westbound.

My guess is that ORD-DEL will be an afternoon departure (4PM) & evening arrival (7PM). DEL-ORD will be in the night. SFO-BLR will probably be a double night flight, from 11PM SFO to 6AM+2 BLR. BLR-SFO will be over the pacific, and will be 9AM-11AM.


EWR-BOM departs 825p
BOM-EWR departs 1120p

I fully expect the ORD-DEL flight to be a late night flight in both directions as well.


Normal operations yes. Believe during repatriation flights its been different for EWR-BOM, but I think its back to normal timings now.
Seems to work well both ways, particularly in return to USA (early morning arrival).
 
CONTACREW
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:52 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

It's interesting, UA may very well stagger them out. Post pandemic, EWR-DEL is still an evening-evening (9PM-9PM) flight, but EWR-BOM is now a morning-morning (8AM-8AM) flight eastbound, and a daytime flight westbound.

My guess is that ORD-DEL will be an afternoon departure (4PM) & evening arrival (7PM). DEL-ORD will be in the night. SFO-BLR will probably be a double night flight, from 11PM SFO to 6AM+2 BLR. BLR-SFO will be over the pacific, and will be 9AM-11AM.


EWR-BOM departs 825p
BOM-EWR departs 1120p

I fully expect the ORD-DEL flight to be a late night flight in both directions as well.


Normal operations yes. Believe during repatriation flights its been different for EWR-BOM, but I think its back to normal timings now.
Seems to work well both ways, particularly in return to USA (early morning arrival).


As of September 7th the EWR-BOM-EWR times have moved to back to the times listed in my previous post.
Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:47 pm

United has access to search and booking data. They can't fly to business destinations as much, so they are trying to use the planes to places they see demand coming back sooner. They must see India/Africa and Hawaii as markets set for a come back. United only cares about these working till business travel comes back and they have other places to fly the planes. Some might be a hit and he kept, but most won't.

Hawaii is interesting with quarantine requirements will end eventually and they must see some pent up demand with people wanting to visit somewhere outside. I can definitely see Hawaii getting alot of the same people who packed national parks this summer. Outdoor destination avoid cities, theme parks and ski areas more this winter. People normally do a Vail trip or Disneyland might rather do Hawaii this year. Those same people also probably travelled less this spring/summer/fall so a bigger trip might be up their alley because they are so stir crazy being at home for so long. Hawaii does make sense I guess for short term trying to get some cash flowing
 
jayunited
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Re: United New Route Announcement 9/9/2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:13 pm

lga31vfr wrote:
And, in the airline business, "exceeds expectations" means what? load percentage, profit, both, some other metric(s)?



I'm not sure what "exceed expectations" means. United started using that terminology some years ago when they switched our SFO/LAX-SYD flights from a 77E to a 789. Ever since then the term has stuck around and they use it when a flight does well. United also uses "did not meet expectation" when they suspend or cancel a flight. The first time I heard UA use "did not meet expectations" was when UA canceled NRT-BKK.

Do I know the exact metrics United is using to make these determinations the honest answer is no I don't know the exact metrics it isn't my department. But when United says the flight exceeded expectation and they are planning to resume EWR-CPT (if allowed) for the 2020/21 season I've learned to take them at their word.

For United to want to bring this flight back for winter 2020/2021 during a pandemic speaks volumes as to how the route performed during winter 2019/2020.
 
rnb747
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:37 am

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:17 pm

Does UA have an aircraft now that can go direct from EWR to BLR? If not, can the A350 handle this flight (if and when they take delivery)?

That maybe on par with SFO-BLR in terms of traffic.
 
N649DL
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:20 pm

Wasn't IAD-ACC/LOS already served before and killed off by Smisek? Or am I thinking of something else?

ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4794
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:30 pm

United has access to search and booking data. They can't fly to business destinations as much, so they are trying to use the planes to places they see demand coming back sooner. They must see India/Africa and Hawaii as markets set for a come back. United only cares about these working till business travel comes back and they have other places to fly the planes again. Some might be a hit and be kept, but most won't. This is about getting cash flow sooner then waiting for the full recovery. I bet we see alot more of this as this is appearing to really be a slow recovery for business travel.

Hawaii is interesting with quarantine requirements will end eventually and they must see some pent up demand with people wanting to visit somewhere outside. I can definitely see Hawaii getting alot of the same people who packed national parks this summer. Outdoor destination avoid cities, theme parks and ski areas more this winter. People normally do a Vail trip or Disneyland might rather do Hawaii this year. Those same people also probably travelled less this spring/summer/fall so a bigger trip might be up their alley because they are so stir crazy being at home for so long. Hawaii does make sense I guess for short term trying to get some cash flowing
 
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stl07
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:30 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I think the India and Africa adds show how UA is taking advantage of people not wanting to connect through third countries. US-India is a huge market with strong business, VFR and tourist traffic but also high competition with EU and ME airlines. Strong VFR routes are key during Covid because that traffic will continue even if business traffic is down. Add to that the reduced business traffic that no longer wants to connect in DXB or CDG, and UA could have winners here. Also, US airlines have all scaled back their EU flights. There is less pressure to push connecting India pax through EU hubs just to fill transatlantic seats. These adds will affect the ME3’s US flights (ME3 get people to fly to JNB from the US as well as India)

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
The best way to compete with the ME3 with a subpar product is to eliminate the need for them
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:38 pm

N649DL wrote:
...
ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.


If you connect the dots from recent news, I am sure there will be enough premium traffic between Chicago and New Delhi.

Once AI goes out business UA will capture VFR market.

AA started ORD-DEL at the wrong time in aviation history, just plain and simple.
All posts are just opinions.
 
kotoka
Posts: 87
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:53 pm

raylee67 wrote:
I am surprised it takes so long for BLR-SFO to materialize. I suppose ACC and LOS would be on one route, probably IAD-ACC-LOS, or even triangular routing. I wonder if UA has 5th rights on ACC-LOS if it's really flown as IAD-ACC-LOS?


Per United IAD-ACC and IAD-LOS are actually separate flights, 3x a week each.
 
N649DL
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:04 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
N649DL wrote:
...
ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.


If you connect the dots from recent news, I am sure there will be enough premium traffic between Chicago and New Delhi.

Once AI goes out business UA will capture VFR market.

AA started ORD-DEL at the wrong time in aviation history, just plain and simple.


Wasn't that also when DL tried JFK to India and CO was already in the EWR-India market? AA did operate ORD to India for a while, IIRC.

That's right, forgot that UA flew IAD-ACC/LOS independently a few times weekly on 3-Class 763. They also flew to Moscow and KWI. They had a nice profile pre-merger at IAD that Smisek eyed on killing off.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:10 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
N649DL wrote:
...
ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.


If you connect the dots from recent news, I am sure there will be enough premium traffic between Chicago and New Delhi.

Once AI goes out business UA will capture VFR market.

AA started ORD-DEL at the wrong time in aviation history, just plain and simple.


Agreed and I would add there are like 1 million more Indians living in america since the AA flight not to mention the increase India origin traffic and both ways business traffic. Bringing up the AA flight which was bad timing AND the wrong aircraft configuration (it was super heavy first and business), just isn't a good example. I actually think both AI and UA can easily survive as long as people avoid connections (and I mean like 10-20% of the traffic over and above what AI got). Also, with limited tourist options, I can see India based travelers choosing to vacation visiting US relatives as well.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:46 pm

N649DL wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
N649DL wrote:
...
ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.


If you connect the dots from recent news, I am sure there will be enough premium traffic between Chicago and New Delhi.

Once AI goes out business UA will capture VFR market.

AA started ORD-DEL at the wrong time in aviation history, just plain and simple.


Wasn't that also when DL tried JFK to India and CO was already in the EWR-India market? AA did operate ORD to India for a while, IIRC.

That's right, forgot that UA flew IAD-ACC/LOS independently a few times weekly on 3-Class 763. They also flew to Moscow and KWI. They had a nice profile pre-merger at IAD that Smisek eyed on killing off.


The Middle East routes you're describing are as follows;

IAD-DXB-DOH (ended August 30, 2014)
IAD-DXB (ended January 25, 2016)
IAD-KWI-BAH (ended January 13, 2016)

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:50 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
It's not simply UA vs AA to BLR...it's Oneworld vs StarAlliance. I think both AA and UA can be successful on their new BLR service.


Agreed. Both the SFO and SEA market catchment for the new BLR routes aren't insignificant from a business perspective, but it all hinges on a resumption of normalized travel demand which seems a bit far off, and with the US and India major epicenters of COVID19 infection rates right now, it is early to pop the champagne.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 1977
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:55 pm

N649DL wrote:

ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.


The list of markets that UA succeeded in from ORD that AA failed in (or discontinued) is quite long.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8420
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:56 pm

N649DL wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
N649DL wrote:
...
ORD-DEL is going to be a tough one considering AA failed on that route for a long while.


If you connect the dots from recent news, I am sure there will be enough premium traffic between Chicago and New Delhi.

Once AI goes out business UA will capture VFR market.

AA started ORD-DEL at the wrong time in aviation history, just plain and simple.


Wasn't that also when DL tried JFK to India and CO was already in the EWR-India market? AA did operate ORD to India for a while, IIRC.

That's right, forgot that UA flew IAD-ACC/LOS independently a few times weekly on 3-Class 763. They also flew to Moscow and KWI. They had a nice profile pre-merger at IAD that Smisek eyed on killing off.


With regards to the Middle East routes (DXB, DOH, BAH, KWI) those routes weren't cut because of some vendetta against IAD. There was a confluence of circumstances in the early-to-mid 2010s with the US drawing down their presence in the region with the winding down of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, rapid expansion of the ME3 in the US market, and B6*EK being awarded the Fly America authority for government travel.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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