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NewYork1K
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:04 pm

LAXintl wrote:
I saw a note in Flight Ops update about the October schedule that was interesting to put things in perspective.

Q. How many scheduled pilot block hours were there in October?
A. 234,941, or 37.8% of the number in October 2019


Strongly skewed down by the significant decrease of high block hour international flying taking place.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3047
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:53 pm

Some international flights go on sale tomorrow and launch dates are announced:

- ORD-DEL begins December 10, 2020.
- SFO-BLR begins May 6, 2021
- EWR-JNB begins March 27, 2021

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-02-unite ... 90810.html
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3047
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:58 pm

United November schedule update:

- 44% of November 2019 schedule (four point increase from October 2020)
- 49% domestic capacity compared to November 2019
- 38% international capacity compared to November 2019

Domestic Additions:

- Launching IAD-EYW
- Resume DEN-MIA, SFO-TPA
- Increase LAX-OGG to daily

International Additions:

- Resume DEN-FRA with 3x weekly
- Increase IAH-FRA to 5x weekly
- Resume SFO-TPE pax with 3x weekly
- Increase SFO-ICN to 5x weekly
- Resume IAH-SCL/GIG with 3x weekly
- Resume Caribbean and Central American destinations, including Antigua, Curacao, Grand Cayman, Managua, Nassau, St. Lucia and Roatan.
- Expanding service on over 20 routes with new service to Acapulco and Zihuatanejo and expanded service to Cancun, Cozumel, Cabo San Lucas and Puerto Vallarta.

Three of United's recently-announced international routes go on sale tomorrow and they've announced the inaugural dates:

- ORD-DEL begins December 10, 2020.
- SFO-BLR begins May 6, 2021
- EWR-JNB begins March 27, 2021

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-02-unite ... 90810.html
 
DylanHarvey
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:59 pm

FSDan wrote:
portola2727 wrote:
LHUSA wrote:

They already flew them in the past. The flight was quickly moved up to SFO as the second daily SFO-SIN.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, but I was wondering if UA could relaunch the service once T9 comes online at LAX.


I'd guess the range improvement would make the LAX-SIN route more feasible, but then UA would have to weigh the benefit of the increased schedule options they have via SFO by offering a late morning and a night flight vs splitting it back to 1 SFO-SIN flight + 1 LAX-SIN flight (with far, far fewer connections available over LAX). Or, if they wanted to add LAX-SIN in addition to keeping 2x daily SFO-SIN flights, they would have to decide that the profit potential on LAX-SIN was greater than all the other places they could send those two 789 frames.

I'm not sure how much range it will add, the thrust bumps will help out of JNB and BLR as its around 3000ft AMSL, LAX-SIN is just a long flight and I think the 89 can get MTOW out of LAX most of the time unless its really hot.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:26 pm

Very impressed with 38% of intl flying. Must be a lot of Caribbean returning because there is still so few flights to Canada, Asia, and Europe.
 
airboss787
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:31 pm

onwFan wrote:
there is no way that UA will stay on all of EWR-DEL, EWR-BOM, SFO-DEL, ORD-DEL and SFO-BLR.


Why do you think they cant sustain all this service? Do you have any facts to corroborate? In fact, in the next 5-7 years, I hope they launch SFO or ORD-BOM and EWR-BLR in the least.
Star Alliance Gold
 
EssentialPowr
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Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:48 pm

I’m been impressed with Kirby. UAL wants to recover, compete and keep going. Zoom won’t ever replace face to face contact in a business sense, and aircraft are filling up as people adapt and weigh consequences. Nice!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:56 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
I’m been impressed with Kirby. UAL wants to recover, compete and keep going. Zoom won’t ever replace face to face contact in a business sense, and aircraft are filling up as people adapt and weigh consequences. Nice!


Indeed, Im very happy with Kirby's leadership at UA.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:57 pm

I’m actually quite surprised UA hasn’t made EWR-FCO/MXP bookable to pax yet. They have been running these cargo only flights for a few months now. DL is also flying these routes from JFK.
 
LHUSA
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:14 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
EssentialPowr wrote:
I’m been impressed with Kirby. UAL wants to recover, compete and keep going. Zoom won’t ever replace face to face contact in a business sense, and aircraft are filling up as people adapt and weigh consequences. Nice!


Indeed, Im very happy with Kirby's leadership at UA.


Have to add my two cents. I am as well!
 
codc10
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:17 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I’m actually quite surprised UA hasn’t made EWR-FCO/MXP bookable to pax yet. They have been running these cargo only flights for a few months now. DL is also flying these routes from JFK.


Pax traffic to Italy ordinarily falls off a cliff once October rolls around. Not much of a business case for it until at least the spring, I would bet. If anything, though, MXP comes back first.
 
x1234
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:27 pm

I just realized from FR24 that UA is taking a POLAR route SFO to DEL making it in 15 hours. They can easily fly an extra 2 hours to BOM like the SFO to SIN flight and have similar payloads (SIN & BOM).
 
sand26391
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:17 pm

United Airlines flight timings for SFO-BLR, EWR-JNB and ORD-DEL is out. While the DEL-ORD flight begins from DEC 10th, the SFO-BLR flight begins from MAY 6th and arrives at BLR on 8th May 2021. Bookings open 3rd October on UA website.

Image

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-02-unite ... 90810.html
 
USAirALB
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:41 pm

Fantastic.

Hopefully we will see IAD-JNB very soon with the way things are going with South African.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
ordbosewr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:14 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
I’m been impressed with Kirby. UAL wants to recover, compete and keep going. Zoom won’t ever replace face to face contact in a business sense, and aircraft are filling up as people adapt and weigh consequences. Nice!


IMHO, from what I am seeing at my company and those we interact with that statement is only partially true.

Yes, business travel will come back to a degree, but I think it will not be 100% of what it was. That is not to say that we get back to 100% of the RPM that business travel used to be.
If we all can agree that business travel was/is growing year over year, then business travel will get back to the same RPMs but it will take longer since there is a group that will not return to traveling due to other means.
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:27 pm

NewYork1K wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
I saw a note in Flight Ops update about the October schedule that was interesting to put things in perspective.

Q. How many scheduled pilot block hours were there in October?
A. 234,941, or 37.8% of the number in October 2019


Strongly skewed down by the significant decrease of high block hour international flying taking place.


Its the critical number that matters to pilots as their volume of work and pay potential is dictated upon the number of block hours generated.

So operating at merely 37.8 percent of 2019 numbers is pretty disasterous.
I fly your boxes
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:50 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
I’m been impressed with Kirby. UAL wants to recover, compete and keep going. Zoom won’t ever replace face to face contact in a business sense, and aircraft are filling up as people adapt and weigh consequences. Nice!



I agree I am impressed with Kirby's navigation so far through this pandemic. In my 25 years with Untied Airlines I have never seen this airline this flexible and adaptable. With the international exposure and the largest widebody fleet of the US3, I will admit back in April when Kirby took the airline down to just 10% of our pre-COVID level I was a little worried (although I tried not to show it on this site) as to how UA would navigate through this pandemic. All things considered I think United's performance thus far has surprised a lot of people.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I’m actually quite surprised UA hasn’t made EWR-FCO/MXP bookable to pax yet. They have been running these cargo only flights for a few months now. DL is also flying these routes from JFK.


There is no need to open up FCO to passengers the demand isn't there and really UA's FCO's busy season wraps up at the end of October, I think cargo only flights to FCO will continue until IATA summer 2021.

With the resumption of DEN-FRA in November UA will finally have at least 1 long haul passenger service international flight from every hub.

The two biggest passenger service TATL holes in UA's network heading with the November schedule are IAH-LHR and LAX-LHR. I think UA will reconnect LHR to those hubs in March 2021.
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:43 pm

Anyone know if Star Wars (N36272) is just parking at SFO for a bit? It’s been there since 9/22. NEVER made a stop at MSP for the spotters, not once. Is it being repainted?
 
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KVH68
Posts: 265
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:47 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
Anyone know if Star Wars (N36272) is just parking at SFO for a bit? It’s been there since 9/22. NEVER made a stop at MSP for the spotters, not once. Is it being repainted?


That aircraft is at SFO for landing gear change. It won't fly again for a minimum of one week.
 
joeljack
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:16 am

November schedule is out this evening FYI. The Sunday after thanksgiving is a mess on many routes. I was monitoring Omaha and flights on the old schedule were over 50% full already on most flights, reducing the schedule by 50% made flights essentially full. Prices are through the roof. I’m really surprised they are not flying a more robust schedule Over thanksgiving. Giving up lots of revenue.

Also, spent some time monitoring today. Out of Omaha, basically all flights went out 95% full or more today. Looking at routes out of SFO by contract I couldn’t believe how empty they are considering how full Midwest flights have been the last weeks. Basically people on west coast are not ready to fly yet it seems.

Also, interesting United isn’t adding flights close in or upsizing much like WN and a few others are chasing revenue. Southwest has been doing lots of little adds here in their just a few weeks out. United, only cuts, no adds. Just an observation.
 
sldispatcher
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Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:52 am

Yes. I agree that mid america flights are definitely getting higher load factors. Looks like incredible discipline on United's part plus easier to manage crew costs, fleet management. Not that I like some of the decisions to not increase service levels on some domestic routes, but I understand.
 
andrew1996
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:01 am

Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:55 pm

UAX Update:

CR2:
N411AW returned to flying
N412AW returned to flying
N421ZW returned to flying
N434AW returned to flying
N440AW returned to flying
N452AW returned to flying
N454AW returned to flying
N458AW returned to flying
 
UALifer
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:23 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March


December schedule is not yet updated. They only just updated November last night. Give it a few weeks and most of those flights will drop out of the schedule.
 
onwFan
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:17 pm

airboss787 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
there is no way that UA will stay on all of EWR-DEL, EWR-BOM, SFO-DEL, ORD-DEL and SFO-BLR.


Why do you think they cant sustain all this service? Do you have any facts to corroborate? In fact, in the next 5-7 years, I hope they launch SFO or ORD-BOM and EWR-BLR in the least.

A lot can change in the next 5-7 years - No one is even thinking or commenting about that. These routes are all planned to be flown/launched in the next few months. In the next few years post covid, there is no way there is that much traffic to profitably sustain 10+ daily non-stops between the US and India, especially once the ME3, European and Asian connectors enter back into the market.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:52 pm

onwFan wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
there is no way that UA will stay on all of EWR-DEL, EWR-BOM, SFO-DEL, ORD-DEL and SFO-BLR.


Why do you think they cant sustain all this service? Do you have any facts to corroborate? In fact, in the next 5-7 years, I hope they launch SFO or ORD-BOM and EWR-BLR in the least.

A lot can change in the next 5-7 years - No one is even thinking or commenting about that. These routes are all planned to be flown/launched in the next few months. In the next few years post covid, there is no way there is that much traffic to profitably sustain 10+ daily non-stops between the US and India, especially once the ME3, European and Asian connectors enter back into the market.


India to NA has been growing at a fast rate. Just 5 years ago there were only 2xAI and 2xUA. Another possibility is that UA may to push AI out of the market (we will see how that would pan out). UA and AC are going to win out nearly all corporate/high yield travellers.
 
jayunited
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:13 pm

onwFan wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
there is no way that UA will stay on all of EWR-DEL, EWR-BOM, SFO-DEL, ORD-DEL and SFO-BLR.


Why do you think they cant sustain all this service? Do you have any facts to corroborate? In fact, in the next 5-7 years, I hope they launch SFO or ORD-BOM and EWR-BLR in the least.

A lot can change in the next 5-7 years - No one is even thinking or commenting about that. These routes are all planned to be flown/launched in the next few months. In the next few years post covid, there is no way there is that much traffic to profitably sustain 10+ daily non-stops between the US and India, especially once the ME3, European and Asian connectors enter back into the market.


Not including India itself the U.S. has the 3 largest Indian migrant population in the World. Since the 2020 census data is not yet available we have to use the 2010 census data which showed a 67% increase in the U.S's immigrant Indian population. Data from the Migration Policy Institute which compiled data from over several years put out an article in 2017 which stated more than half of all migrant Indians resided in 5 U.S. states; California, New Jersey, Texas, New York, and Illinois. The article even went further and stated the top counties migrant Indians reside in in this country are Santa Clara County, Middlesex County, Cook County, Alameda County.

The top 10 metropolitan areas with the highest migrant Indian population back between 2011-2015 was New York/Newark/Jersey City, Chicago/Naperville/Elgin, San Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara, San Francisco/Oakland/Hayward, Washington/Arlington/Alexandria WV, Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington TX, Los Angeles/Long Beach/ Anaheim, Houston/The Woodlands/Sugar Land, Philadelphia/Camden/ Wilmington, and Atlanta/Sandy Springs/Roswell GA.

Keep in mind these numbers come from the 2010 census and we know the number of migrants arriving from India over the past 10 years has not decreased it has increased.

But just using the data from 2010 if we follow the trend the top states migrant Indians reside in United has hubs. The Top counties they reside in United has hubs, and United Airlines has a hub in 7 of the top 10 Metropolitan Areas. The only thing United Airlines was missing was the right aircraft (787-9) to operate the route. In terms of nonstop flights India (pre-COVID) was probably one of the most under served destinations from the U.S.. Even though AI had expanded their nonstop flight options to the U.S. India was still under served in terms of nonstop flight options. United's hubs located at EWR, SFO, and ORD are all in the right location to provide nonstop options to migrant Indians living in the U.S.

The 77E (which is what AA used from ORD) is not the right aircraft to fly nonstop from the U.S. to India especially from ORD. UA/CO struggled to make EWR-DEL/BOM work on a 77E, the flight was weight restricted daily. So EWR-DEL is shorter than ORD-DEL-ORD with UA/CO struggling out of EWR on a 77E it is easy to understand why AA's ORD-DEL didn't work out.

Read the article and do a little research you might then understand why United Airlines armed with the 789 believes now is the time to increase our nonstop options to India.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article ... tates-2015
 
onwFan
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:29 pm

jayunited wrote:
onwFan wrote:
airboss787 wrote:

Why do you think they cant sustain all this service? Do you have any facts to corroborate? In fact, in the next 5-7 years, I hope they launch SFO or ORD-BOM and EWR-BLR in the least.

A lot can change in the next 5-7 years - No one is even thinking or commenting about that. These routes are all planned to be flown/launched in the next few months. In the next few years post covid, there is no way there is that much traffic to profitably sustain 10+ daily non-stops between the US and India, especially once the ME3, European and Asian connectors enter back into the market.


Not including India itself the U.S. has the 3 largest Indian migrant population in the World. Since the 2020 census data is not yet available we have to use the 2010 census data which showed a 67% increase in the U.S's immigrant Indian population. Data from the Migration Policy Institute which compiled data from over several years put out an article in 2017 which stated more than half of all migrant Indians resided in 5 U.S. states; California, New Jersey, Texas, New York, and Illinois. The article even went further and stated the top counties migrant Indians reside in in this country are Santa Clara County, Middlesex County, Cook County, Alameda County.

The top 10 metropolitan areas with the highest migrant Indian population back between 2011-2015 was New York/Newark/Jersey City, Chicago/Naperville/Elgin, San Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara, San Francisco/Oakland/Hayward, Washington/Arlington/Alexandria WV, Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington TX, Los Angeles/Long Beach/ Anaheim, Houston/The Woodlands/Sugar Land, Philadelphia/Camden/ Wilmington, and Atlanta/Sandy Springs/Roswell GA.

Keep in mind these numbers come from the 2010 census and we know the number of migrants arriving from India over the past 10 years has not decreased it has increased.

But just using the data from 2010 if we follow the trend the top states migrant Indians reside in United has hubs. The Top counties they reside in United has hubs, and United Airlines has a hub in 7 of the top 10 Metropolitan Areas. The only thing United Airlines was missing was the right aircraft (787-9) to operate the route. In terms of nonstop flights India (pre-COVID) was probably one of the most under served destinations from the U.S.. Even though AI had expanded their nonstop flight options to the U.S. India was still under served in terms of nonstop flight options. United's hubs located at EWR, SFO, and ORD are all in the right location to provide nonstop options to migrant Indians living in the U.S.

The 77E (which is what AA used from ORD) is not the right aircraft to fly nonstop from the U.S. to India especially from ORD. UA/CO struggled to make EWR-DEL/BOM work on a 77E, the flight was weight restricted daily. So EWR-DEL is shorter than ORD-DEL-ORD with UA/CO struggling out of EWR on a 77E it is easy to understand why AA's ORD-DEL didn't work out.

Read the article and do a little research you might then understand why United Airlines armed with the 789 believes now is the time to increase our nonstop options to India.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article ... tates-2015

Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.
 
airboss787
Posts: 275
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:38 pm

onwFan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
onwFan wrote:
A lot can change in the next 5-7 years - No one is even thinking or commenting about that. These routes are all planned to be flown/launched in the next few months. In the next few years post covid, there is no way there is that much traffic to profitably sustain 10+ daily non-stops between the US and India, especially once the ME3, European and Asian connectors enter back into the market.


Not including India itself the U.S. has the 3 largest Indian migrant population in the World. Since the 2020 census data is not yet available we have to use the 2010 census data which showed a 67% increase in the U.S's immigrant Indian population. Data from the Migration Policy Institute which compiled data from over several years put out an article in 2017 which stated more than half of all migrant Indians resided in 5 U.S. states; California, New Jersey, Texas, New York, and Illinois. The article even went further and stated the top counties migrant Indians reside in in this country are Santa Clara County, Middlesex County, Cook County, Alameda County.

The top 10 metropolitan areas with the highest migrant Indian population back between 2011-2015 was New York/Newark/Jersey City, Chicago/Naperville/Elgin, San Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara, San Francisco/Oakland/Hayward, Washington/Arlington/Alexandria WV, Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington TX, Los Angeles/Long Beach/ Anaheim, Houston/The Woodlands/Sugar Land, Philadelphia/Camden/ Wilmington, and Atlanta/Sandy Springs/Roswell GA.

Keep in mind these numbers come from the 2010 census and we know the number of migrants arriving from India over the past 10 years has not decreased it has increased.

But just using the data from 2010 if we follow the trend the top states migrant Indians reside in United has hubs. The Top counties they reside in United has hubs, and United Airlines has a hub in 7 of the top 10 Metropolitan Areas. The only thing United Airlines was missing was the right aircraft (787-9) to operate the route. In terms of nonstop flights India (pre-COVID) was probably one of the most under served destinations from the U.S.. Even though AI had expanded their nonstop flight options to the U.S. India was still under served in terms of nonstop flight options. United's hubs located at EWR, SFO, and ORD are all in the right location to provide nonstop options to migrant Indians living in the U.S.

The 77E (which is what AA used from ORD) is not the right aircraft to fly nonstop from the U.S. to India especially from ORD. UA/CO struggled to make EWR-DEL/BOM work on a 77E, the flight was weight restricted daily. So EWR-DEL is shorter than ORD-DEL-ORD with UA/CO struggling out of EWR on a 77E it is easy to understand why AA's ORD-DEL didn't work out.

Read the article and do a little research you might then understand why United Airlines armed with the 789 believes now is the time to increase our nonstop options to India.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article ... tates-2015

Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.


I am pretty sure they don't expect to make money from the first day. With SFO-BLR and ORD-DEL, UA will have first mover advantage as things get better. People will know of these flights when things get better. It's a time for expansion as others retrench. They have been profitable for the last 10 years even with Air India around. The expansion to 2 more routes shouldn't change things dramatically. People are eventually going to fly, it's just a matter of when. I am not sure of AAs performance but UA and AI, I would be surprised if they end any routes.
Star Alliance Gold
 
jayunited
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:53 pm

onwFan wrote:
Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.



What does COVID have to do with anything? United Airlines today is operating our full pre-COVID flight schedule to India. Even though our load factors still vary from day to day United is still operating its full schedule. You want to simply focus on the here and now which is fine I get it we are in the middle of a pandemic. However United like all airlines is focused on the future once there is a viable vaccine.

Today's UA802-03OCT DEL-EWR left DEL with only 40 open seats that is around an 88% LF.
UA868-03OCT DEL-SFO operated with only 38 open seats this flights LF was 86%.
UA830-03OCT BOM-EWR had a light passenger load with 192 open seats, the LF on that flight was around 45%.

DEL has shown a bit more consistent in terms of our load factors where as BOM has really been all over the place. However UA makes up for BOM's wild LF swings with a lot of cargo that we otherwise would not be able to take if our 77W was full.

UA adding SFO-BLR-SFO and ORD-DEL-ORD hardly represents a huge increase in nonstop capacity to India overall. And looking at the data from the 2010 census the one city/state not on the top 10 list is Seattle, Washington. If there is one flight whose future might be in jeopardy I think it is AA's SEA-BLR-SEA. But then again the data used the article is 10 years old perhaps there is enough of a demand to support both a SFO and a SEA - BLR flight. But unless SEA in the past 10 years has overtaken the Bay Area as the top spot on the West Coast for migrant Indians and tech companies I think UA's SFO-BLR-SFO will still be operating come W2021. As far as UA's ORD-DEL-ORD only time will tell but seeing UA's DEL operation during the pandemic I think there is a good shot this flight will still be operating come W2021 as well.
 
onwFan
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:40 am

jayunited wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.



What does COVID have to do with anything? United Airlines today is operating our full pre-COVID flight schedule to India. Even though our load factors still vary from day to day United is still operating its full schedule. You want to simply focus on the here and now which is fine I get it we are in the middle of a pandemic. However United like all airlines is focused on the future once there is a viable vaccine.

Today's UA802-03OCT DEL-EWR left DEL with only 40 open seats that is around an 88% LF.
UA868-03OCT DEL-SFO operated with only 38 open seats this flights LF was 86%.
UA830-03OCT BOM-EWR had a light passenger load with 192 open seats, the LF on that flight was around 45%.

DEL has shown a bit more consistent in terms of our load factors where as BOM has really been all over the place. However UA makes up for BOM's wild LF swings with a lot of cargo that we otherwise would not be able to take if our 77W was full.

UA adding SFO-BLR-SFO and ORD-DEL-ORD hardly represents a huge increase in nonstop capacity to India overall. And looking at the data from the 2010 census the one city/state not on the top 10 list is Seattle, Washington. If there is one flight whose future might be in jeopardy I think it is AA's SEA-BLR-SEA. But then again the data used the article is 10 years old perhaps there is enough of a demand to support both a SFO and a SEA - BLR flight. But unless SEA in the past 10 years has overtaken the Bay Area as the top spot on the West Coast for migrant Indians and tech companies I think UA's SFO-BLR-SFO will still be operating come W2021. As far as UA's ORD-DEL-ORD only time will tell but seeing UA's DEL operation during the pandemic I think there is a good shot this flight will still be operating come W2021 as well.

The reason why UA and AI are operating so many flights to India with good loads right now is because currently all international flights to India are operating under the ‘bubbles’ concept. Most of the people who are traveling right now are mostly relatives trying to get back home or workers/dependents who got stuck in India for visa, etc - they are pretty much forced to choose these non-stop flights to avoid so many other restrictions in place. There is virtually no ME airline competition (they are by far the most sought after option due to convenient connections to most Indian cities including secondary ones). To start with, EK/QR/EY/CX operations into India are currently a shadow of their full schedule, or even completely absent. LH has dropped altogether after disagreement with the Indian govt. This is not going to be the case forever. Once these bubbles burst, the market is going to be more fragmented than ever, while everyone fights hard for the traffic and demand recovers slowly, not to mention the steep decline in business traffic that UA is after... Indian VFR traffic is extremely price-sensitive and AI relies on consolidating the VFR from many smaller cities (that traffic is actually really big), which is why the ME3 have such a big share of the market to themselves.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:42 am

UALifer wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March


December schedule is not yet updated. They only just updated November last night. Give it a few weeks and most of those flights will drop out of the schedule.

I would say December is going to be tricky, but November and Thanksgiving will be a good learning experience to see how much last minute booking there is.
 
mangoman
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:41 pm

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:17 am

Jayunited is THE inside source for all things UA and India. I just read your posts and gives so much useful information no one else can. Thank you for all you do and your time.
jayunited wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.



What does COVID have to do with anything? United Airlines today is operating our full pre-COVID flight schedule to India. Even though our load factors still vary from day to day United is still operating its full schedule. You want to simply focus on the here and now which is fine I get it we are in the middle of a pandemic. However United like all airlines is focused on the future once there is a viable vaccine.

Today's UA802-03OCT DEL-EWR left DEL with only 40 open seats that is around an 88% LF.
UA868-03OCT DEL-SFO operated with only 38 open seats this flights LF was 86%.
UA830-03OCT BOM-EWR had a light passenger load with 192 open seats, the LF on that flight was around 45%.

DEL has shown a bit more consistent in terms of our load factors where as BOM has really been all over the place. However UA makes up for BOM's wild LF swings with a lot of cargo that we otherwise would not be able to take if our 77W was full.

UA adding SFO-BLR-SFO and ORD-DEL-ORD hardly represents a huge increase in nonstop capacity to India overall. And looking at the data from the 2010 census the one city/state not on the top 10 list is Seattle, Washington. If there is one flight whose future might be in jeopardy I think it is AA's SEA-BLR-SEA. But then again the data used the article is 10 years old perhaps there is enough of a demand to support both a SFO and a SEA - BLR flight. But unless SEA in the past 10 years has overtaken the Bay Area as the top spot on the West Coast for migrant Indians and tech companies I think UA's SFO-BLR-SFO will still be operating come W2021. As far as UA's ORD-DEL-ORD only time will tell but seeing UA's DEL operation during the pandemic I think there is a good shot this flight will still be operating come W2021 as well.
 
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Irehdna
Posts: 411
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:15 pm

Is ORD-DEL using the "uprated" 789 used for SFO-BLR?
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3636
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:23 pm

I have to wonder if SA will codeshare on JNB-EWR, which would permanently replace JNB-JFK. ACC-IAD would replace an SA fifth-freedom service, and IAD and JFK were the only two North American destinations for SA. A codeshare with FA and/or 4Z could also work wonders for domestic South African connections with UA

That said, I'm surprised that UA can do both CPT and JNB both as terminators from EWR (especially given JNB's elevation). DL is doing a triangular routing. Could CPT eventually evolve to a northern summer triangular routing, and a winter terminator?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:38 pm

onwFan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.



What does COVID have to do with anything? United Airlines today is operating our full pre-COVID flight schedule to India. Even though our load factors still vary from day to day United is still operating its full schedule. You want to simply focus on the here and now which is fine I get it we are in the middle of a pandemic. However United like all airlines is focused on the future once there is a viable vaccine.

Today's UA802-03OCT DEL-EWR left DEL with only 40 open seats that is around an 88% LF.
UA868-03OCT DEL-SFO operated with only 38 open seats this flights LF was 86%.
UA830-03OCT BOM-EWR had a light passenger load with 192 open seats, the LF on that flight was around 45%.

DEL has shown a bit more consistent in terms of our load factors where as BOM has really been all over the place. However UA makes up for BOM's wild LF swings with a lot of cargo that we otherwise would not be able to take if our 77W was full.

UA adding SFO-BLR-SFO and ORD-DEL-ORD hardly represents a huge increase in nonstop capacity to India overall. And looking at the data from the 2010 census the one city/state not on the top 10 list is Seattle, Washington. If there is one flight whose future might be in jeopardy I think it is AA's SEA-BLR-SEA. But then again the data used the article is 10 years old perhaps there is enough of a demand to support both a SFO and a SEA - BLR flight. But unless SEA in the past 10 years has overtaken the Bay Area as the top spot on the West Coast for migrant Indians and tech companies I think UA's SFO-BLR-SFO will still be operating come W2021. As far as UA's ORD-DEL-ORD only time will tell but seeing UA's DEL operation during the pandemic I think there is a good shot this flight will still be operating come W2021 as well.

The reason why UA and AI are operating so many flights to India with good loads right now is because currently all international flights to India are operating under the ‘bubbles’ concept. Most of the people who are traveling right now are mostly relatives trying to get back home or workers/dependents who got stuck in India for visa, etc - they are pretty much forced to choose these non-stop flights to avoid so many other restrictions in place. There is virtually no ME airline competition (they are by far the most sought after option due to convenient connections to most Indian cities including secondary ones). To start with, EK/QR/EY/CX operations into India are currently a shadow of their full schedule, or even completely absent. LH has dropped altogether after disagreement with the Indian govt. This is not going to be the case forever. Once these bubbles burst, the market is going to be more fragmented than ever, while everyone fights hard for the traffic and demand recovers slowly, not to mention the steep decline in business traffic that UA is after... Indian VFR traffic is extremely price-sensitive and AI relies on consolidating the VFR from many smaller cities (that traffic is actually really big), which is why the ME3 have such a big share of the market to themselves.


I don’t disagree with you per se but I think the details change the overall effect of the issues you bring up. First off, I have never felt that the reason India-US lacked more nonstop flights was because there was no traffic or yield (every flight doesn’t need to be EWR-SIN type J demand). They issue has always been that US airlines had WAY too much incentive to push indian traffic via EU to keep their multiple daily flights from US cities to EU hubs. Also while India VFR may be price sensitive generally, it is not momolithic. Indian-Americans now number over 4 million in the US. You have about a million people who came here in the 60’s and 70’s. So while recent immigrants might be price sensitive, the ones here for a long time are much less so. Indian-Americans have the highest average income of any tracked group in the US and tend to be professionals. Why do you think that segment of the population doesn’t want convenience and FF miles? UA has seen the data, they know %US origin and %India plus business/tourist/VFR mix. UA is betting on US origin pax from the region of their hubs going to DEL, BOM or BLR. So ORD-DEL & US city-ORD-DEL is their primary target. The ME3 will struggle to really compete with that segment. ME3 have really been most competitive on their US gateways-ME-South India. BUt J traffic skews to BOM, DEL and BLR. As the US3 take more and more of the J traffic of these cities, how will that affect the ME3s US-ME flights? Also COVID bubble flights are here for some time. After that, lets see if the ME3 come back as strong as they were before on US-ME routes (and UA’s flights aren’t going to help them). Finally US-EU will have fewer frequencies for 2 years. So UA can develop the nonstops without immeadiate need to push even more traffic to the EU. There is a realignment coming. Kudos to UA to try and shape it to their long term benefit. I think AA needs to rethink SEA-BLR and perhaps launch DFW-DEL/BOM or ORD-BOM
 
jayunited
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:52 pm

joeljack wrote:
November schedule is out this evening FYI. The Sunday after thanksgiving is a mess on many routes. I was monitoring Omaha and flights on the old schedule were over 50% full already on most flights, reducing the schedule by 50% made flights essentially full. Prices are through the roof. I’m really surprised they are not flying a more robust schedule Over thanksgiving. Giving up lots of revenue.

Also, interesting United isn’t adding flights close in or upsizing much like WN and a few others are chasing revenue. Southwest has been doing lots of little adds here in their just a few weeks out. United, only cuts, no adds. Just an observation.


I'm not sure what you mean when you say "its a mess". UA's November schedule and in particular our Thanksgiving schedule (Wednesday through Sunday) uses the same modeling forecast UA has been using since the beginning of this pandemic. The schedule partially based on real data from actual ticket sales, it is one of the main reasons why UA waits until a month before to release the next schedule.

If you are expecting UA to just add capacity just for the sake of appearances then you haven't been paying attention to what UA has been doing schedule wise since May/June of this year in terms of our schedule. Thanksgiving is no different, what the forecast is showing is there will be a small uptick in demand for the Thanksgiving holiday but not a huge spike in demand. Flying a robust schedule when the demand for such a schedule does not exist only hurts UA and would only increase our burn rate.

And as far as your assertion that UA isn't upsizing or adding flights like WN, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from to make such a statement. When necessary UA still adds additional passenger segments or United will upguage flights 72-24 hours before departure. In some cases the upguage is going from a A319 to an A320, in other we are going from a 737-700 to a 737-900ER. Yesterday there were a few flights that were schedule to operate as 737-800 that were upguaged to 77As or 77Es or 789s. Upguaging and extra segments still happen but at UA it doesn't happen weeks in advance it has days before departure. In fact back in July United put out an entire article on Flying Together advising or encouraging employees to list themselves or their pass riders as early as possible to our team could see where in the system additional capacity is needed and if at all possible respond by either upguaging a flight or adding an additional segment.

Two notable upguages that took place over this past week to 10 days one happened yesterday OCT 3rd UA257 DEN-SFO was upguaged from a 738 to a 77A and late last week UA upguaged UA1096 IAH-SJO from a 738 to a 763 (standard configuration). While those are extreme examples, those extreme examples are happening weekly across the system, so again I'm not sure where you are getting your information from to make such a statement.
 
sand26391
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:33 pm

Jay, your thoughts on the BLR-SFO flight which is announced during the pandemic? I'm sure if COVID was not there the flight will and can do wonders for UA. I know ( and probably you do too) that there is a good demand btw the two sectors, but will it work out for UA if the pandemic/demand stays till say 2022/23?
Sorry if you've answered this question already in anyother thread....
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:59 pm

joeljack wrote:
November schedule is out this evening FYI. The Sunday after thanksgiving is a mess on many routes. I was monitoring Omaha and flights on the old schedule were over 50% full already on most flights, reducing the schedule by 50% made flights essentially full. Prices are through the roof. I’m really surprised they are not flying a more robust schedule Over thanksgiving. Giving up lots of revenue.

Also, spent some time monitoring today. Out of Omaha, basically all flights went out 95% full or more today. Looking at routes out of SFO by contract I couldn’t believe how empty they are considering how full Midwest flights have been the last weeks. Basically people on west coast are not ready to fly yet it seems.

Also, interesting United isn’t adding flights close in or upsizing much like WN and a few others are chasing revenue. Southwest has been doing lots of little adds here in their just a few weeks out. United, only cuts, no adds. Just an observation.


Prices were through the roof, because when airlines load schedules the highest fare buckets are loaded in first.

It's also harder for UA to add in segments close in like WN does, in fact WN is really the only airline that is truly doing this at scale.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
VTORD
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:39 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
UA is betting on US origin pax from the region of their hubs going to DEL, BOM or BLR. So ORD-DEL & US city-ORD-DEL is their primary target. The ME3 will struggle to really compete with that segment. ME3 have really been most competitive on their US gateways-ME-South India. BUt J traffic skews to BOM, DEL and BLR. As the US3 take more and more of the J traffic of these cities, how will that affect the ME3s US-ME flights? Also COVID bubble flights are here for some time. After that, lets see if the ME3 come back as strong as they were before on US-ME routes (and UA’s flights aren’t going to help them). Finally US-EU will have fewer frequencies for 2 years. So UA can develop the nonstops without immeadiate need to push even more traffic to the EU. There is a realignment coming. Kudos to UA to try and shape it to their long term benefit. I think AA needs to rethink SEA-BLR and perhaps launch DFW-DEL/BOM or ORD-BOM

Well put.
My :twocents: ? I think we will see a significant capacity adjustment from the ME3. As you mentioned their bread and butter has been XXX-ME3-YYY (YYY being non-DEL/BOM/BLR) and they will move their focus in that direction. With UA adding a significant squeeze w/ n/s routes, ME3 could use their existing BASAs to move some flights to newer Tier2/3 airports. That also means a significant rejig of aircraft acquisition plans. EK can't be buying B77Ws in wholesale anymore....
 
atrude777
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Re: Updated: UA plans EWR-JNB/OGG, IAD-ACC/LOS, ORD-DEL/KOA, SFO-BLR

Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:52 pm

Regarding Acapulco, the wording from United is...

“including new sew service to Acapulco and Zihuatanejo and expanded service to Cancun, Cozumel, Cabo San Lucas and Puerto Vallarta”

I can’t tell if United previously served ACA before COVID, as Wiki is mentioning ‘seasonal’ service to IAH.

If they have, what’s new to ACA that isn’t mentioned in the news release? Otherwise, if ACA is a new United service in Mexico, I imagine it would only be from Houston?

Very cool either way to see more new expansion to Mexico, kind of following American’s idea also in expanding to new leisure markets in a Mexico!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
andrew1996
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:49 pm

UALifer wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March


December schedule is not yet updated. They only just updated November last night. Give it a few weeks and most of those flights will drop out of the schedule.


Hmm makes sense as I am not that optimistic on a recovery that fast. However, November and December used to be double daily for SIN and HKG and now in December is single daily --> is that already a sign of an update? Is UA's plan to restart route at daily/near daily or be like other airlines and maintain low frequency? UA does currently serve those places via GUM but cargo only. not sure what the economics are like by adding a few passengers on those flights.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:18 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
UALifer wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March


December schedule is not yet updated. They only just updated November last night. Give it a few weeks and most of those flights will drop out of the schedule.


Hmm makes sense as I am not that optimistic on a recovery that fast. However, November and December used to be double daily for SIN and HKG and now in December is single daily --> is that already a sign of an update? Is UA's plan to restart route at daily/near daily or be like other airlines and maintain low frequency? UA does currently serve those places via GUM but cargo only. not sure what the economics are like by adding a few passengers on those flights.

I'm not saying a recovery, but Thanksgiving, and Christmas are the two busiest time for travel, and I think more people will risk it for a family related vacation, than did this summer. I don't know if I hope I'm wrong, but United will need to be agile regardless.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:24 am

Breaking News: United Airlines to resume nonstop service SFO-PVG on October 21, 2020, eliminating the need for the stopover at ICN.
The flight will still operate 4x weekly for now.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 45348.html

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com ... his-month/

I'm not really sure what has changed or if China has relaxed their COVID requirements for crews. I'm sure there will be more information coming out tomorrow morning.

But this is great news it will be interesting to see if UA will now be able to resume nonstop service (either passenger and/or cargo) on our SFO-HKG route and if we will once again reinstate the tag on HKG-SIN-HKG should passenger service resume to HKG.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:42 am

jayunited wrote:
Breaking News: United Airlines to resume nonstop service SFO-PVG on October 21, 2020, eliminating the need for the stopover at ICN.
The flight will still operate 4x weekly for now.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 45348.html

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com ... his-month/

I'm not really sure what has changed or if China has relaxed their COVID requirements for crews. I'm sure there will be more information coming out tomorrow morning.

But this is great news it will be interesting to see if UA will now be able to resume nonstop service (either passenger and/or cargo) on our SFO-HKG route and if we will once again reinstate the tag on HKG-SIN-HKG should passenger service resume to HKG.



Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:19 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.


Seems like I read on this blog that the SFO-ICN-PVG flights have been running at UA's self-imposed passenger limit.

IIRC, the crew fly SFO-ICN then lays-over, then ICN-PVG-ICN with another layover and finally return to SFO. The passengers stay on board in ICN to continue PVG.

IOW, passengers (business, pleasure, China nationals or not) are already traveling on this route and going non-stop SFO-PVG will make the trip shorter and more convenient than stopping at Seoul.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 242
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:11 am

UAX Update:

CR5:
N552GJ entered revenue service with GoJet (EvoBlu livery)

CR2:
N430SW (ex-DL 2001 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
N454SW (ex-DL 2002 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
N809CA (ex-DL 2000 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:41 pm

UAinAUS wrote:
UAX Update:

CR5:
N552GJ entered revenue service with GoJet (EvoBlu livery)


Saw N552GJ parked at EWR A-2 yesterday, still sporting the Golden Tail... no EvoBlu yet.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:08 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.




United resumed flights to PVG back in July, and soon thereafter both Delta and United increase service from 2x weekly to 4x weekly both airlines citing increased demand as the reason for the increase.
As a matter of fact back in August Delta Airlines quietly ended their self imposed capacity restriction in their Delta One cabin on their China flights only because it was the only way they could offer more business class seats do to overwhelming demand from business travelers going to/from the U.S. and China. United Airlines is utilizing a 77W on our flights to China with 60 Polaris seats. So when you make a statement "certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips any time soon" that directly contradicts what both these airlines stated back in August literally weeks after resuming flights to PVG.

I can't speak for Delta, but I do know United is working hard to increase frequencies (we have people on the ground in Washing D.C. and in Beijing) so that we can resume daily service to PVG as soon as possible from SFO.

Also I brought up HKG because UA in August was set to resume passenger service SFO-HKG (and was set to operate a tag on passenger service flight HKG-SIN-HKG) and resume 1x weekly passenger service ORD-HKG. Those plans were temporarily grounded when the government changed and required everyone arriving into HKG included crews to submit to a pretty invasive COVID test. At the time UA was operating cargo only flights from ORD, LAX and SFO to HKG. We ended ORD cargo only flights, and rerouted LAX/SFO-HKG through GUM and NRT to keep crews from out of Hong Kong because both UA and ALPA agreed this was a bridge to far.

So while you are saying baby steps United is ready to hit the ground running which is why I asked what has changed because the resumption of SFO-PVG nonstop on October 21st means both flight crew and FA's will now overnight in China. That may not seem like a big deal but if we make an exception for HKG UA has not allowed crew members to overnight in China since February even though we have been operating cargo only flight to PVG and PEK since early April.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:00 am

jayunited wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:

Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.




United resumed flights to PVG back in July, and soon thereafter both Delta and United increase service from 2x weekly to 4x weekly both airlines citing increased demand as the reason for the increase.
As a matter of fact back in August Delta Airlines quietly ended their self imposed capacity restriction in their Delta One cabin on their China flights only because it was the only way they could offer more business class seats do to overwhelming demand from business travelers going to/from the U.S. and China. United Airlines is utilizing a 77W on our flights to China with 60 Polaris seats. So when you make a statement "certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips any time soon" that directly contradicts what both these airlines stated back in August literally weeks after resuming flights to PVG.

I can't speak for Delta, but I do know United is working hard to increase frequencies (we have people on the ground in Washing D.C. and in Beijing) so that we can resume daily service to PVG as soon as possible from SFO.

Also I brought up HKG because UA in August was set to resume passenger service SFO-HKG (and was set to operate a tag on passenger service flight HKG-SIN-HKG) and resume 1x weekly passenger service ORD-HKG. Those plans were temporarily grounded when the government changed and required everyone arriving into HKG included crews to submit to a pretty invasive COVID test. At the time UA was operating cargo only flights from ORD, LAX and SFO to HKG. We ended ORD cargo only flights, and rerouted LAX/SFO-HKG through GUM and NRT to keep crews from out of Hong Kong because both UA and ALPA agreed this was a bridge to far.

So while you are saying baby steps United is ready to hit the ground running which is why I asked what has changed because the resumption of SFO-PVG nonstop on October 21st means both flight crew and FA's will now overnight in China. That may not seem like a big deal but if we make an exception for HKG UA has not allowed crew members to overnight in China since February even though we have been operating cargo only flight to PVG and PEK since early April.


When China relaxed visa requirements for foreign nationals last week, UA moved to capitalize on it. They are betting that more foreign nationals will be seeking to travel to China for reunions and Holidays. Some foreign nationals will be returning for work reasons, but I still think that the majority are those aforementioned. There is not a single business that I know of right now that is allowing foreign business travel. Very few have even been authorized domestic work travel unless it is extraordinary circumstances. Filling the front of the plane is wonderful if it is actually passengers buying those seats at premium prices, but I highly doubt that is the case. Points, reduced fares, upgrades, etc are more likely and I imagine it is no different on Delta either. This will gradually change in due time, but right now in Oct 2020 it is still a long way off.

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