onwFan wrote:

jayunited wrote:

onwFan wrote:

Yeah, okay. As an Indian immigrant, and having lived in many of these cities in the US, I am well aware of the Indian immigration patterns in the the US. There is also the question of timing here.. If you think that UA can indeed make profit flying every one of routes daily in the midst of covid, ok - good! I beg to differ, that’s all... Let’s see how many of these routes are still flying in W21.

What does COVID have to do with anything? United Airlines today is operating our full pre-COVID flight schedule to India. Even though our load factors still vary from day to day United is still operating its full schedule. You want to simply focus on the here and now which is fine I get it we are in the middle of a pandemic. However United like all airlines is focused on the future once there is a viable vaccine.

Today's UA802-03OCT DEL-EWR left DEL with only 40 open seats that is around an 88% LF.
UA868-03OCT DEL-SFO operated with only 38 open seats this flights LF was 86%.
UA830-03OCT BOM-EWR had a light passenger load with 192 open seats, the LF on that flight was around 45%.

DEL has shown a bit more consistent in terms of our load factors where as BOM has really been all over the place. However UA makes up for BOM's wild LF swings with a lot of cargo that we otherwise would not be able to take if our 77W was full.

UA adding SFO-BLR-SFO and ORD-DEL-ORD hardly represents a huge increase in nonstop capacity to India overall. And looking at the data from the 2010 census the one city/state not on the top 10 list is Seattle, Washington. If there is one flight whose future might be in jeopardy I think it is AA's SEA-BLR-SEA. But then again the data used the article is 10 years old perhaps there is enough of a demand to support both a SFO and a SEA - BLR flight. But unless SEA in the past 10 years has overtaken the Bay Area as the top spot on the West Coast for migrant Indians and tech companies I think UA's SFO-BLR-SFO will still be operating come W2021. As far as UA's ORD-DEL-ORD only time will tell but seeing UA's DEL operation during the pandemic I think there is a good shot this flight will still be operating come W2021 as well.

The reason why UA and AI are operating so many flights to India with good loads right now is because currently all international flights to India are operating under the ‘bubbles’ concept. Most of the people who are traveling right now are mostly relatives trying to get back home or workers/dependents who got stuck in India for visa, etc - they are pretty much forced to choose these non-stop flights to avoid so many other restrictions in place. There is virtually no ME airline competition (they are by far the most sought after option due to convenient connections to most Indian cities including secondary ones). To start with, EK/QR/EY/CX operations into India are currently a shadow of their full schedule, or even completely absent. LH has dropped altogether after disagreement with the Indian govt. This is not going to be the case forever. Once these bubbles burst, the market is going to be more fragmented than ever, while everyone fights hard for the traffic and demand recovers slowly, not to mention the steep decline in business traffic that UA is after... Indian VFR traffic is extremely price-sensitive and AI relies on consolidating the VFR from many smaller cities (that traffic is actually really big), which is why the ME3 have such a big share of the market to themselves.

I don’t disagree with you per se but I think the details change the overall effect of the issues you bring up. First off, I have never felt that the reason India-US lacked more nonstop flights was because there was no traffic or yield (every flight doesn’t need to be EWR-SIN type J demand). They issue has always been that US airlines had WAY too much incentive to push indian traffic via EU to keep their multiple daily flights from US cities to EU hubs. Also while India VFR may be price sensitive generally, it is not momolithic. Indian-Americans now number over 4 million in the US. You have about a million people who came here in the 60’s and 70’s. So while recent immigrants might be price sensitive, the ones here for a long time are much less so. Indian-Americans have the highest average income of any tracked group in the US and tend to be professionals. Why do you think that segment of the population doesn’t want convenience and FF miles? UA has seen the data, they know %US origin and %India plus business/tourist/VFR mix. UA is betting on US origin pax from the region of their hubs going to DEL, BOM or BLR. So ORD-DEL & US city-ORD-DEL is their primary target. The ME3 will struggle to really compete with that segment. ME3 have really been most competitive on their US gateways-ME-South India. BUt J traffic skews to BOM, DEL and BLR. As the US3 take more and more of the J traffic of these cities, how will that affect the ME3s US-ME flights? Also COVID bubble flights are here for some time. After that, lets see if the ME3 come back as strong as they were before on US-ME routes (and UA’s flights aren’t going to help them). Finally US-EU will have fewer frequencies for 2 years. So UA can develop the nonstops without immeadiate need to push even more traffic to the EU. There is a realignment coming. Kudos to UA to try and shape it to their long term benefit. I think AA needs to rethink SEA-BLR and perhaps launch DFW-DEL/BOM or ORD-BOM

joeljack wrote:

November schedule is out this evening FYI. The Sunday after thanksgiving is a mess on many routes. I was monitoring Omaha and flights on the old schedule were over 50% full already on most flights, reducing the schedule by 50% made flights essentially full. Prices are through the roof. I’m really surprised they are not flying a more robust schedule Over thanksgiving. Giving up lots of revenue.

Also, interesting United isn’t adding flights close in or upsizing much like WN and a few others are chasing revenue. Southwest has been doing lots of little adds here in their just a few weeks out. United, only cuts, no adds. Just an observation.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "its a mess". UA's November schedule and in particular our Thanksgiving schedule (Wednesday through Sunday) uses the same modeling forecast UA has been using since the beginning of this pandemic. The schedule partially based on real data from actual ticket sales, it is one of the main reasons why UA waits until a month before to release the next schedule.

If you are expecting UA to just add capacity just for the sake of appearances then you haven't been paying attention to what UA has been doing schedule wise since May/June of this year in terms of our schedule. Thanksgiving is no different, what the forecast is showing is there will be a small uptick in demand for the Thanksgiving holiday but not a huge spike in demand. Flying a robust schedule when the demand for such a schedule does not exist only hurts UA and would only increase our burn rate.

And as far as your assertion that UA isn't upsizing or adding flights like WN, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from to make such a statement. When necessary UA still adds additional passenger segments or United will upguage flights 72-24 hours before departure. In some cases the upguage is going from a A319 to an A320, in other we are going from a 737-700 to a 737-900ER. Yesterday there were a few flights that were schedule to operate as 737-800 that were upguaged to 77As or 77Es or 789s. Upguaging and extra segments still happen but at UA it doesn't happen weeks in advance it has days before departure. In fact back in July United put out an entire article on Flying Together advising or encouraging employees to list themselves or their pass riders as early as possible to our team could see where in the system additional capacity is needed and if at all possible respond by either upguaging a flight or adding an additional segment.

Two notable upguages that took place over this past week to 10 days one happened yesterday OCT 3rd UA257 DEN-SFO was upguaged from a 738 to a 77A and late last week UA upguaged UA1096 IAH-SJO from a 738 to a 763 (standard configuration). While those are extreme examples, those extreme examples are happening weekly across the system, so again I'm not sure where you are getting your information from to make such a statement.

Jay, your thoughts on the BLR-SFO flight which is announced during the pandemic? I'm sure if COVID was not there the flight will and can do wonders for UA. I know ( and probably you do too) that there is a good demand btw the two sectors, but will it work out for UA if the pandemic/demand stays till say 2022/23?
Sorry if you've answered this question already in anyother thread....

joeljack wrote:

November schedule is out this evening FYI. The Sunday after thanksgiving is a mess on many routes. I was monitoring Omaha and flights on the old schedule were over 50% full already on most flights, reducing the schedule by 50% made flights essentially full. Prices are through the roof. I’m really surprised they are not flying a more robust schedule Over thanksgiving. Giving up lots of revenue.

Also, spent some time monitoring today. Out of Omaha, basically all flights went out 95% full or more today. Looking at routes out of SFO by contract I couldn’t believe how empty they are considering how full Midwest flights have been the last weeks. Basically people on west coast are not ready to fly yet it seems.

Also, interesting United isn’t adding flights close in or upsizing much like WN and a few others are chasing revenue. Southwest has been doing lots of little adds here in their just a few weeks out. United, only cuts, no adds. Just an observation.

Prices were through the roof, because when airlines load schedules the highest fare buckets are loaded in first.

It's also harder for UA to add in segments close in like WN does, in fact WN is really the only airline that is truly doing this at scale.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

UA is betting on US origin pax from the region of their hubs going to DEL, BOM or BLR. So ORD-DEL & US city-ORD-DEL is their primary target. The ME3 will struggle to really compete with that segment. ME3 have really been most competitive on their US gateways-ME-South India. BUt J traffic skews to BOM, DEL and BLR. As the US3 take more and more of the J traffic of these cities, how will that affect the ME3s US-ME flights? Also COVID bubble flights are here for some time. After that, lets see if the ME3 come back as strong as they were before on US-ME routes (and UA’s flights aren’t going to help them). Finally US-EU will have fewer frequencies for 2 years. So UA can develop the nonstops without immeadiate need to push even more traffic to the EU. There is a realignment coming. Kudos to UA to try and shape it to their long term benefit. I think AA needs to rethink SEA-BLR and perhaps launch DFW-DEL/BOM or ORD-BOM

Well put.
My ? I think we will see a significant capacity adjustment from the ME3. As you mentioned their bread and butter has been XXX-ME3-YYY (YYY being non-DEL/BOM/BLR) and they will move their focus in that direction. With UA adding a significant squeeze w/ n/s routes, ME3 could use their existing BASAs to move some flights to newer Tier2/3 airports. That also means a significant rejig of aircraft acquisition plans. EK can't be buying B77Ws in wholesale anymore....

Regarding Acapulco, the wording from United is...

“including new sew service to Acapulco and Zihuatanejo and expanded service to Cancun, Cozumel, Cabo San Lucas and Puerto Vallarta”

I can’t tell if United previously served ACA before COVID, as Wiki is mentioning ‘seasonal’ service to IAH.

If they have, what’s new to ACA that isn’t mentioned in the news release? Otherwise, if ACA is a new United service in Mexico, I imagine it would only be from Houston?

Very cool either way to see more new expansion to Mexico, kind of following American’s idea also in expanding to new leisure markets in a Mexico!

Alex

UALifer wrote:

andrew1996 wrote:

Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March

December schedule is not yet updated. They only just updated November last night. Give it a few weeks and most of those flights will drop out of the schedule.

Hmm makes sense as I am not that optimistic on a recovery that fast. However, November and December used to be double daily for SIN and HKG and now in December is single daily --> is that already a sign of an update? Is UA's plan to restart route at daily/near daily or be like other airlines and maintain low frequency? UA does currently serve those places via GUM but cargo only. not sure what the economics are like by adding a few passengers on those flights.

andrew1996 wrote:

UALifer wrote:

andrew1996 wrote:

Interesting they plan on resuming many long haul routes out of SFO on December 1 with a daily flight as opposed to like 3-5eeekly. Thoughts on why? I noticed Singapore and HongKong lost their second daily flight but I think they plan on double daily next Spring at the moment. Interesting they are not starting up slower for long haul routes they have not served since March

December schedule is not yet updated. They only just updated November last night. Give it a few weeks and most of those flights will drop out of the schedule.

Hmm makes sense as I am not that optimistic on a recovery that fast. However, November and December used to be double daily for SIN and HKG and now in December is single daily --> is that already a sign of an update? Is UA's plan to restart route at daily/near daily or be like other airlines and maintain low frequency? UA does currently serve those places via GUM but cargo only. not sure what the economics are like by adding a few passengers on those flights.

I'm not saying a recovery, but Thanksgiving, and Christmas are the two busiest time for travel, and I think more people will risk it for a family related vacation, than did this summer. I don't know if I hope I'm wrong, but United will need to be agile regardless.

Breaking News: United Airlines to resume nonstop service SFO-PVG on October 21, 2020, eliminating the need for the stopover at ICN.
The flight will still operate 4x weekly for now.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 45348.html

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com ... his-month/

I'm not really sure what has changed or if China has relaxed their COVID requirements for crews. I'm sure there will be more information coming out tomorrow morning.

But this is great news it will be interesting to see if UA will now be able to resume nonstop service (either passenger and/or cargo) on our SFO-HKG route and if we will once again reinstate the tag on HKG-SIN-HKG should passenger service resume to HKG.

jayunited wrote:

Breaking News: United Airlines to resume nonstop service SFO-PVG on October 21, 2020, eliminating the need for the stopover at ICN.
The flight will still operate 4x weekly for now.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 45348.html

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com ... his-month/

I'm not really sure what has changed or if China has relaxed their COVID requirements for crews. I'm sure there will be more information coming out tomorrow morning.

But this is great news it will be interesting to see if UA will now be able to resume nonstop service (either passenger and/or cargo) on our SFO-HKG route and if we will once again reinstate the tag on HKG-SIN-HKG should passenger service resume to HKG.

Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.

Seems like I read on this blog that the SFO-ICN-PVG flights have been running at UA's self-imposed passenger limit.

IIRC, the crew fly SFO-ICN then lays-over, then ICN-PVG-ICN with another layover and finally return to SFO. The passengers stay on board in ICN to continue PVG.

IOW, passengers (business, pleasure, China nationals or not) are already traveling on this route and going non-stop SFO-PVG will make the trip shorter and more convenient than stopping at Seoul.

UAX Update:

CR5:
N552GJ entered revenue service with GoJet (EvoBlu livery)

CR2:
N430SW (ex-DL 2001 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
N454SW (ex-DL 2002 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
N809CA (ex-DL 2000 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)

UAinAUS wrote:

UAX Update:

CR5:
N552GJ entered revenue service with GoJet (EvoBlu livery)

Saw N552GJ parked at EWR A-2 yesterday, still sporting the Golden Tail... no EvoBlu yet.

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.

United resumed flights to PVG back in July, and soon thereafter both Delta and United increase service from 2x weekly to 4x weekly both airlines citing increased demand as the reason for the increase.
As a matter of fact back in August Delta Airlines quietly ended their self imposed capacity restriction in their Delta One cabin on their China flights only because it was the only way they could offer more business class seats do to overwhelming demand from business travelers going to/from the U.S. and China. United Airlines is utilizing a 77W on our flights to China with 60 Polaris seats. So when you make a statement "certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips any time soon" that directly contradicts what both these airlines stated back in August literally weeks after resuming flights to PVG.

I can't speak for Delta, but I do know United is working hard to increase frequencies (we have people on the ground in Washing D.C. and in Beijing) so that we can resume daily service to PVG as soon as possible from SFO.

Also I brought up HKG because UA in August was set to resume passenger service SFO-HKG (and was set to operate a tag on passenger service flight HKG-SIN-HKG) and resume 1x weekly passenger service ORD-HKG. Those plans were temporarily grounded when the government changed and required everyone arriving into HKG included crews to submit to a pretty invasive COVID test. At the time UA was operating cargo only flights from ORD, LAX and SFO to HKG. We ended ORD cargo only flights, and rerouted LAX/SFO-HKG through GUM and NRT to keep crews from out of Hong Kong because both UA and ALPA agreed this was a bridge to far.

So while you are saying baby steps United is ready to hit the ground running which is why I asked what has changed because the resumption of SFO-PVG nonstop on October 21st means both flight crew and FA's will now overnight in China. That may not seem like a big deal but if we make an exception for HKG UA has not allowed crew members to overnight in China since February even though we have been operating cargo only flight to PVG and PEK since early April.

jayunited wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.

United resumed flights to PVG back in July, and soon thereafter both Delta and United increase service from 2x weekly to 4x weekly both airlines citing increased demand as the reason for the increase.
As a matter of fact back in August Delta Airlines quietly ended their self imposed capacity restriction in their Delta One cabin on their China flights only because it was the only way they could offer more business class seats do to overwhelming demand from business travelers going to/from the U.S. and China. United Airlines is utilizing a 77W on our flights to China with 60 Polaris seats. So when you make a statement "certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips any time soon" that directly contradicts what both these airlines stated back in August literally weeks after resuming flights to PVG.

I can't speak for Delta, but I do know United is working hard to increase frequencies (we have people on the ground in Washing D.C. and in Beijing) so that we can resume daily service to PVG as soon as possible from SFO.

Also I brought up HKG because UA in August was set to resume passenger service SFO-HKG (and was set to operate a tag on passenger service flight HKG-SIN-HKG) and resume 1x weekly passenger service ORD-HKG. Those plans were temporarily grounded when the government changed and required everyone arriving into HKG included crews to submit to a pretty invasive COVID test. At the time UA was operating cargo only flights from ORD, LAX and SFO to HKG. We ended ORD cargo only flights, and rerouted LAX/SFO-HKG through GUM and NRT to keep crews from out of Hong Kong because both UA and ALPA agreed this was a bridge to far.

So while you are saying baby steps United is ready to hit the ground running which is why I asked what has changed because the resumption of SFO-PVG nonstop on October 21st means both flight crew and FA's will now overnight in China. That may not seem like a big deal but if we make an exception for HKG UA has not allowed crew members to overnight in China since February even though we have been operating cargo only flight to PVG and PEK since early April.

When China relaxed visa requirements for foreign nationals last week, UA moved to capitalize on it. They are betting that more foreign nationals will be seeking to travel to China for reunions and Holidays. Some foreign nationals will be returning for work reasons, but I still think that the majority are those aforementioned. There is not a single business that I know of right now that is allowing foreign business travel. Very few have even been authorized domestic work travel unless it is extraordinary circumstances. Filling the front of the plane is wonderful if it is actually passengers buying those seats at premium prices, but I highly doubt that is the case. Points, reduced fares, upgrades, etc are more likely and I imagine it is no different on Delta either. This will gradually change in due time, but right now in Oct 2020 it is still a long way off.

[quote="TrafficCop"]Three 789's delivered.

3983 delivered to IAD yesterday 9/29. Flight 2703.
3984 delivered to IAD today 9/30. Flight 2705.
3982 delivered to ORD today 9/30. Flight 2704.

That should make it 12 of 35 789's in Polaris configuration and only three more 789's to go.

Apologies if I am behind in what’s latest!

These 3 787-9’s delivered with Polaris, will they be used for adding additional flying or replace 787-9’s with the old configuration?

Last question (unrelated) Regarding the eventual delivery of 737-9/10: I’m aware UA has a top secret lie flat for mostly transcontinental flights. But there is a chance of TATL also, am I correct? Aside from the new lie-flat, is UA also considering a PE cabin as well on the MAX (or whatever she will be called- let’s hope it is not named a 737-9 Plus!)

VC10er wrote:

TrafficCop wrote:

Three 789's delivered.

3983 delivered to IAD yesterday 9/29. Flight 2703.
3984 delivered to IAD today 9/30. Flight 2705.
3982 delivered to ORD today 9/30. Flight 2704.

That should make it 12 of 35 789's in Polaris configuration and only three more 789's to go.

Apologies if I am behind in what’s latest!

These 3 787-9’s delivered with Polaris, will they be used for adding additional flying or replace 787-9’s with the old configuration?

Last question (unrelated) Regarding the eventual delivery of 737-9/10: I’m aware UA has a top secret lie flat for mostly transcontinental flights. But there is a chance of TATL also, am I correct? Aside from the new lie-flat, is UA also considering a PE cabin as well on the MAX (or whatever she will be called- let’s hope it is not named a 737-9 Plus!)

I doubt you’ll see the MAX on TATL at UA. That’s why they ordered the XLR.

VC10er wrote:

These 3 787-9’s delivered with Polaris, will they be used for adding additional flying or replace 787-9’s with the old configuration?

The latest batch of 787-9s delivered will eventually be deployed on the most performance-intensive missions in the system, including SFO-BLR, EWR-JNB, IAH-SYD, SFO-SIN, as they launch/return to service. The rest of the fleet will eventually be brought to the same standard but for now there will be a subfleet.

jayunited wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

Baby steps. With 72 hr testing results becoming the norm to enter countries, I imagine this will apply to the PVG to SFO route. If successful, then more Asia routes will be open from the west coast and then eventually other stations. The question becomes who will be getting on these planes. Certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips for its workers anytime soon, nor do I see many people jumpiing at the chance to go to China for pleasure, so I imagine this is mostly for foreign nationals.

United resumed flights to PVG back in July, and soon thereafter both Delta and United increase service from 2x weekly to 4x weekly both airlines citing increased demand as the reason for the increase.
As a matter of fact back in August Delta Airlines quietly ended their self imposed capacity restriction in their Delta One cabin on their China flights only because it was the only way they could offer more business class seats do to overwhelming demand from business travelers going to/from the U.S. and China. United Airlines is utilizing a 77W on our flights to China with 60 Polaris seats. So when you make a statement "certainly no businesses will be authorizing trips any time soon" that directly contradicts what both these airlines stated back in August literally weeks after resuming flights to PVG.

I can't speak for Delta, but I do know United is working hard to increase frequencies (we have people on the ground in Washing D.C. and in Beijing) so that we can resume daily service to PVG as soon as possible from SFO.

Also I brought up HKG because UA in August was set to resume passenger service SFO-HKG (and was set to operate a tag on passenger service flight HKG-SIN-HKG) and resume 1x weekly passenger service ORD-HKG. Those plans were temporarily grounded when the government changed and required everyone arriving into HKG included crews to submit to a pretty invasive COVID test. At the time UA was operating cargo only flights from ORD, LAX and SFO to HKG. We ended ORD cargo only flights, and rerouted LAX/SFO-HKG through GUM and NRT to keep crews from out of Hong Kong because both UA and ALPA agreed this was a bridge to far.

So while you are saying baby steps United is ready to hit the ground running which is why I asked what has changed because the resumption of SFO-PVG nonstop on October 21st means both flight crew and FA's will now overnight in China. That may not seem like a big deal but if we make an exception for HKG UA has not allowed crew members to overnight in China since February even though we have been operating cargo only flight to PVG and PEK since early April.

Not sure if this allowed but is UA on the SFO-->PVG flight allowed to reserve some J class seats for pilots who will pilot the return flight from PVG-->SFO on the next rotation so no crew is staying overnight in PVG? It could also be UA being optimistic that PVG (and other places) will loosen crew requirements. What's interesting is that UA's current SIN cargo flight doe snot have the crew laying over in SIN as they do a same day return to GUM even though SIN does not have restrictions on aircrew beyond requiring aircrew to stay in their hotel rooms; many airlines have crews laying over in SIN like KLM, BA etc and instead for the same day return at SIN UA brings an extra set of flight crew to operate GUM-SIN-GUM.

I think HKG was cut before SIN when COVID-19 first hit; its interesting SIN was one of the last routes cut out of SFO. Not sure who will return first or if they will still return as a tag flight. It seems like SIN is loosening border restrictions on visitors faster than HKG and SIN has less restrictions on flight crew than HKG, but HKG may otherwise have more demand

andrew1996 wrote:

Not sure if this allowed but is UA on the SFO-->PVG flight allowed to reserve some J class seats for pilots who will pilot the return flight from PVG-->SFO on the next rotation so no crew is staying overnight in PVG?

No chance of this under any applicable law or contract (e.g. UPA, FAR 117, FRMS). Crews will lay over, isolated to their rooms. I'm not sure what the testing protocol will be, but cannot imagine the company and unions agreed to anything like the more invasive test-on-arrival protocol for HKG or other Chinese layovers, which resulted in service suspension or rescheduling to allow for the flights to operate as a turn (ICN-PVG-ICN, HKG-GUM).

The schedule requires crews to layover in PVG.
Per note crews must take a "nucleic acid test" on arrival and isolate in their hotel rooms during the layover. I believe the company is trying to get some form of waiver by using SFO test facility prior to departure, but as of Oct 5 note, nothing has changed in Chinese requirements.

LAXintl wrote:

The schedule requires crews to layover in PVG.
Per note crews must take a "nucleic acid test" on arrival and isolate in their hotel rooms during the layover. I believe the company is trying to get some form of waiver by using SFO test facility prior to departure, but as of Oct 5 note, nothing has changed in Chinese requirements.

I just looked at the Oct 5th note you are referencing and it seem as though HKG still requires an invasive COVID test for all persons entering Hong Kong while PVG requires the nucleic acid test.

With the more invasive test requirements still in place at HKG I guess that answers my question if UA intends to restart passenger service to HKG.

This update came out a few days ago concerning the GE 77Es.

People with access will see a new internal equipment code: 77F. Nine GE 77Es will be put back into service with a new equipment code 77F, these 9 frames will be solely dedicated to cargo only routes. The reason for the equipment code change is because tech ops will load and secure 6,000 pounds of ballast in the aft galley equipment of these frames. The ballast is weighed and locked inside the galley equipment and will not be removed from the aircraft until the aircraft is returned to passenger service. Ballast is needed because the GE 77Es are nose heavy and those Polaris seats only exacerbates the problem. Without the 6,000 pounds of ballast our load planners are forced to leave 2 pallet positions open in the forward cargo hold if not more just to balance the aircraft.

Nose numbers 008, 010, 016, 017, 019, 022 have already be modified and are showing now as 77Fs in the system they are flying cargo only routes.
Nose numbers 003, 013, are flying cargo only routes now and will have the ballast added later this month then then their internal equipment code will change to 77F.
Lastly 009 was in storage at ROW it was ferried out of ROW this past Friday October 2nd and is currently on the ground in DEN it should be joining the 77F fleet soon.

Just so it is clear UA is not removing any seats from any of these aircraft. Also there will be no cargo loaded in the cabin (we have ended cargo in cabin flights). It takes to long to turn an aircraft around manually loading cargo also the added expense of 4 FA's for fire duty diminished our profits and lastly we were damaging the overhead bins and the closest.

For now the 9 77Fs will be restricted to cargo only flights out of these stations EWR, IAD, ORD, LAX, LHR, FRA, CDG, and ZRH.

Another update out today:

Tail number N16008 United's singular 78X that was grounded by Boeing in late August is finally fixed.

A test hop is scheduled for tomorrow October 7th out of EWR, if all goes according to plan.

For now the flight number on file is UA2697-07 EWR-EWR.

andrew1996 wrote:

Not sure if this allowed but is UA on the SFO-->PVG flight allowed to reserve some J class seats for pilots who will pilot the return flight from PVG-->SFO on the next rotation so no crew is staying overnight in PVG? It could also be UA being optimistic that PVG (and other places) will loosen crew requirements...

I was wondering about the very same thing. I suspect UA will test crews for COVID just before departure for PVG and that China will test the crews upon arrival (so prior to leaving the terminal for the layover hotel). Just my guess, of course.

UAX Update:

E145:
N13988 exited fleet, stored IGM

E175SC:
The first 5 of 20 new frames delivered. All in 12/32/26 Configuration. Will be replacing Mesa’s CR7s.
N78361 delivered to Mesa (EvoBlu livery)
N89362 delivered to Mesa (EvoBlu livery)
N85363 delivered to Mesa (EvoBlu livery)
N87364 delivered to Mesa (EvoBlu livery)
N87365 delivered to Mesa (EvoBlu livery)

Here are a few updates out today October 8, 2020

Furloughs: No Deal, dispatchers have voted down the TA between UAL and PAFCA, as a result United will move forward with furloughs on November 1, 2020.

Facilities: There may be a buyer for the Elk Grove Village facility but we have heard that before. Employees at Elk Grove will move to the Arlington Heights facility at some point next year (no time frame given). Lastly Willis Tower, for the first time UA confirmed they did try to break the lease with Willis Tower but the building owners will not allow UA out of the contract. The City of Chicago is also involved and putting pressure on building owners in the downtown and other central business areas to not let business out of their leases because the City wants (NEEDS) business to come back once a vaccine is in circulation. Employees will continue to work from home, for some this could be permanent while other will have to return to Willis Tower once we have a vaccine in circulation. Im sure Chicago is not alone in pressuring building owner to not allow business to break their leases.

Operations: United has slightly increase the number of domestic departures for the October and November schedules. Highlights: EWR with the November schedule will go from 117 daily departures to 147 daily departures (the first increase for EWR since the July schedule). ORD, IAH and DEN continue to perform well, however ORD UA's domestic departures will probably stay where they are for the remainder of the year. It was pointed out that AA has cut quite a few flights from their October and November schedules out of ORD and WN at MDW is looking like they will remain flat. This has taken some pressure off UA in Chicago especially with the AA cuts. IAH will remain flat as well going forward even with the higher LF's we are seeing out of IAH UA will hold capacity. DEN is the big winner here. DEN continues to be UA's most profitable hub and continues to see the highest LF's out of all our hubs. As such with our November schedule DEN will once again take over the top spot as UA's busiest hub. The expectation is DEN will retain that title for some time especially seeing we are heading into winter and ski season where the LF's could go even higher. While IAD, SFO or LAX were not highlighted individually, they will probably remain flat or see an ever so slight increase in capacity. We are still not seeing a sustained long term increase in demand in California or Washington D.C. like we are at our other hubs so I imagine UA will continue to increase capacity when needed through upgrading flights 72-24 hours before departure out of IAD, SFO and LAX. United may or may not increase domestic capacity with our December schedule (which they are still working on) however after December, it will be hunker down to survive the winter January through March. If there is no capacity increase in December it means the November bump could potentially be the last capacity increase we see from UA until April 2021.

Holidays: Thanksgiving is a bust and our November schedule especially our Thanksgiving (Wednesday through Sunday) schedule reflects this reality. United was holding out hope for a huge spike in demand over the Thanksgiving travel period but we just are not seeing it materialize in actual ticket sales. Although our final December schedule is not out the general consensus is if Thanksgiving is a bust Christmas will probably be a bust as well. People have gone this long without seeing their family, and friends, it looks like without a vaccine the vast majority of people are just not willing to risk it for the Thanksgiving and probably the Christmas holiday.

jayunited wrote:

Here are a few updates out today October 8, 2020

Furloughs: No Deal, dispatchers have voted down the TA between UAL and PAFCA, as a result United will move forward with furloughs on November 1, 2020.

Facilities: There may be a buyer for the Elk Grove Village facility but we have heard that before. Employees at Elk Grove will move to the Arlington Heights facility at some point next year (no time frame given). Lastly Willis Tower, for the first time UA confirmed they did try to break the lease with Willis Tower but the building owners will not allow UA out of the contract. The City of Chicago is also involved and putting pressure on building owners in the downtown and other central business areas to not let business out of their leases because the City wants (NEEDS) business to come back once a vaccine is in circulation. Employees will continue to work from home, for some this could be permanent while other will have to return to Willis Tower once we have a vaccine in circulation. Im sure Chicago is not alone in pressuring building owner to not allow business to break their leases.

Operations: United has slightly increase the number of domestic departures for the October and November schedules. Highlights: EWR with the November schedule will go from 117 daily departures to 147 daily departures (the first increase for EWR since the July schedule). ORD, IAH and DEN continue to perform well, however ORD UA's domestic departures will probably stay where they are for the remainder of the year. It was pointed out that AA has cut quite a few flights from their October and November schedules out of ORD and WN at MDW is looking like they will remain flat. This has taken some pressure off UA in Chicago especially with the AA cuts. IAH will remain flat as well going forward even with the higher LF's we are seeing out of IAH UA will hold capacity. DEN is the big winner here. DEN continues to be UA's most profitable hub and continues to see the highest LF's out of all our hubs. As such with our November schedule DEN will once again take over the top spot as UA's busiest hub. The expectation is DEN will retain that title for some time especially seeing we are heading into winter and ski season where the LF's could go even higher. While IAD, SFO or LAX were not highlighted individually, they will probably remain flat or see an ever so slight increase in capacity. We are still not seeing a sustained long term increase in demand in California or Washington D.C. like we are at our other hubs so I imagine UA will continue to increase capacity when needed through upgrading flights 72-24 hours before departure out of IAD, SFO and LAX. United may or may not increase domestic capacity with our December schedule (which they are still working on) however after December, it will be hunker down to survive the winter January through March. If there is no capacity increase in December it means the November bump could potentially be the last capacity increase we see from UA until April 2021.

Holidays: Thanksgiving is a bust and our November schedule especially our Thanksgiving (Wednesday through Sunday) schedule reflects this reality. United was holding out hope for a huge spike in demand over the Thanksgiving travel period but we just are not seeing it materialize in actual ticket sales. Although our final December schedule is not out the general consensus is if Thanksgiving is a bust Christmas will probably be a bust as well. People have gone this long without seeing their family, and friends, it looks like without a vaccine the vast majority of people are just not willing to risk it for the Thanksgiving and probably the Christmas holiday.

Small correction but I’m pretty sure UA had 160 departures today.

Combined (UA + UAX) scheduled departures today:

DEN: 318
EWR: 160
IAD: 148
IAH: 244
LAX: 52
ORD: 349
SFO: 100

System: 2557

jetmatt777 wrote:

Combined (UA + UAX) scheduled departures today:

DEN: 318
EWR: 160
IAD: 148
IAH: 244
LAX: 52
ORD: 349
SFO: 100

System: 2557

You are not reading the SSD information correctly I see where you got the 160 from but UA is operating around 120 daily passenger departures from EWR. In fact yesterday UA operated exactly 120 passenger flights out of EWR on UA and UAX. We did not cancel 40 departures out of EWR yesterday, I know it is bit confusing but when you really get into the reports in the SSD you will see 120 flights out of EWR for the month of October. For the month of November UA will operate147 daily passenger flights out of EWR.

And with the November schedule DEN will overtake ORD again as UA's largest hub.

Okay... But I am literally counting the rows of flights, and subtracting the 2 bus routes, 4 cargo flights and 1 duplicate ATL flight I see 157 departures with actual passengers and actual departure and actual arrival times.

jayunited wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

Combined (UA + UAX) scheduled departures today:

DEN: 318
EWR: 160
IAD: 148
IAH: 244
LAX: 52
ORD: 349
SFO: 100

System: 2557

You are not reading the SSD information correctly I see where you got the 160 from but UA is operating around 120 daily passenger departures from EWR. In fact yesterday UA operated exactly 120 passenger flights out of EWR on UA and UAX. We did not cancel 40 departures out of EWR yesterday, I know it is bit confusing but when you really get into the reports in the SSD you will see 120 flights out of EWR for the month of October. For the month of November UA will operate147 daily passenger flights out of EWR.

And with the November schedule DEN will overtake ORD again as UA's largest hub.

So correct me if I’m wrong but here is UA EWR schedule give or a take a few;

Mon- 160
Tues- 120
Wed- 120
Thur- 160
Fri- 160
Sat- 120?
Sun- 160

jayunited wrote:

...And with the November schedule DEN will overtake ORD again as UA's largest hub.

Remember that during the Smisek era, the consultants were recommending closing IAD and/or DEN? How's that looking now?

jayunited wrote:

Here are a few updates out today October 8, 2020

Furloughs: No Deal, dispatchers have voted down the TA between UAL and PAFCA, as a result United will move forward with furloughs on November 1, 2020.

Facilities: There may be a buyer for the Elk Grove Village facility but we have heard that before. Employees at Elk Grove will move to the Arlington Heights facility at some point next year (no time frame given). Lastly Willis Tower, for the first time UA confirmed they did try to break the lease with Willis Tower but the building owners will not allow UA out of the contract. The City of Chicago is also involved and putting pressure on building owners in the downtown and other central business areas to not let business out of their leases because the City wants (NEEDS) business to come back once a vaccine is in circulation. Employees will continue to work from home, for some this could be permanent while other will have to return to Willis Tower once we have a vaccine in circulation. Im sure Chicago is not alone in pressuring building owner to not allow business to break their leases.

Operations: United has slightly increase the number of domestic departures for the October and November schedules. Highlights: EWR with the November schedule will go from 117 daily departures to 147 daily departures (the first increase for EWR since the July schedule). ORD, IAH and DEN continue to perform well, however ORD UA's domestic departures will probably stay where they are for the remainder of the year. It was pointed out that AA has cut quite a few flights from their October and November schedules out of ORD and WN at MDW is looking like they will remain flat. This has taken some pressure off UA in Chicago especially with the AA cuts. IAH will remain flat as well going forward even with the higher LF's we are seeing out of IAH UA will hold capacity. DEN is the big winner here. DEN continues to be UA's most profitable hub and continues to see the highest LF's out of all our hubs. As such with our November schedule DEN will once again take over the top spot as UA's busiest hub. The expectation is DEN will retain that title for some time especially seeing we are heading into winter and ski season where the LF's could go even higher. While IAD, SFO or LAX were not highlighted individually, they will probably remain flat or see an ever so slight increase in capacity. We are still not seeing a sustained long term increase in demand in California or Washington D.C. like we are at our other hubs so I imagine UA will continue to increase capacity when needed through upgrading flights 72-24 hours before departure out of IAD, SFO and LAX. United may or may not increase domestic capacity with our December schedule (which they are still working on) however after December, it will be hunker down to survive the winter January through March. If there is no capacity increase in December it means the November bump could potentially be the last capacity increase we see from UA until April 2021.

Holidays: Thanksgiving is a bust and our November schedule especially our Thanksgiving (Wednesday through Sunday) schedule reflects this reality. United was holding out hope for a huge spike in demand over the Thanksgiving travel period but we just are not seeing it materialize in actual ticket sales. Although our final December schedule is not out the general consensus is if Thanksgiving is a bust Christmas will probably be a bust as well. People have gone this long without seeing their family, and friends, it looks like without a vaccine the vast majority of people are just not willing to risk it for the Thanksgiving and probably the Christmas holiday.

Dang, that's depressing regarding the holidays, but not surprising

No fleet updates?

jayunited wrote:

Here are a few updates out today October 8, 2020...

Holidays: Thanksgiving is a bust and our November schedule especially our Thanksgiving (Wednesday through Sunday) schedule reflects this reality. United was holding out hope for a huge spike in demand over the Thanksgiving travel period but we just are not seeing it materialize in actual ticket sales. Although our final December schedule is not out the general consensus is if Thanksgiving is a bust Christmas will probably be a bust as well. People have gone this long without seeing their family, and friends, it looks like without a vaccine the vast majority of people are just not willing to risk it for the Thanksgiving and probably the Christmas holiday.

Last I heard, booking patterns were much later than normal. Is that not still the case?

Regarding Willis Tower, why are they trying to sell Elk Grove and break the Willis lease at the same time? Would they not want to move back to Elk Grove? Where else would they want to go, another suburban campus outside Chicago?

STT757 wrote:

Regarding Willis Tower, why are they trying to sell Elk Grove and break the Willis lease at the same time? Would they not want to move back to Elk Grove? Where else would they want to go, another suburban campus outside Chicago?

Gain on the sale of the real estate in EGV (the buildings are basically in tear-down condition), and lease smaller, cheaper suburban space for the HQ. Back to austerity...

STT757 wrote:

Regarding Willis Tower, why are they trying to sell Elk Grove and break the Willis lease at the same time? Would they not want to move back to Elk Grove? Where else would they want to go, another suburban campus outside Chicago?

The rumors I heard were that UA doesn't plan on leaving the Willis tower entirely (the NOC ect is there.) Rather UA is trying to get Willis to break the lease on some of the square footage they have in the tower. Post Covid they simply won't have the need for that much square footage.

They would basically have to gut and rebuild Elk Grove in order to move back into part of that complex....it's not worth the cost.

Elk Grove is the worst. My office was over there and it’s just in awful shape.

United1 wrote:

STT757 wrote:

Regarding Willis Tower, why are they trying to sell Elk Grove and break the Willis lease at the same time? Would they not want to move back to Elk Grove? Where else would they want to go, another suburban campus outside Chicago?

The rumors I heard were that UA doesn't plan on leaving the Willis tower entirely (the NOC ect is there.) Rather UA is trying to get Willis to break the lease on some of the square footage they have in the tower. Post Covid they simply won't have the need for that much square footage.

They would basically have to gut and rebuild Elk Grove in order to move back into part of that complex....it's not worth the cost.

The latest I've heard from my sources is that UA will indeed move NOC out of Willis Tower to a different facility in or near Elk Grove and reduce the square footage in Elk Grove to the contractual minimum..

The High-J 767s stored at IAH are slowly leaving the station as some return to Service, or become airworthiness to fly to ROW. 6669/6685/6463 all left IAH for ROW for more storage time. 6460/6677 scheduled to fly to ILN for more storage? C-check? Im not too sure.

N78002/N788UA flew to ROW for storage

4912/N4912U ex-Vueling GYR-TUP, fleet exit.

4703/N403UA ROW-LCQ, RTS

redrooster3 wrote:

4912/N4912U ex-Vueling GYR-TUP, fleet exit.

Wasn't this one just going to be parted out in GYR?

redrooster3 wrote:

The High-J 767s stored at IAH are slowly leaving the station as some return to Service, or become airworthiness to fly to ROW. 6669/6685/6463 all left IAH for ROW for more storage time. 6460/6677 scheduled to fly to ILN for more storage? C-check? Im not too sure.

N78002/N788UA flew to ROW for storage

4912/N4912U ex-Vueling GYR-TUP, fleet exit.

4703/N403UA ROW-LCQ, RTS

Could it be the hurricane? Also, 4703 is one if the oldest in the fleet ('93).

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N24103 ferried MCN
N11107 ferried MCN

E145:
N11535 ferried MCN
N16541 ferried MCN
N14993 exited fleet, stored IGM

CR2:
N413AW returned to flying
N438AW returned to flying
N451AW returned to flying
N453AW returned to flying
N437SW (ex-DL 2001 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu livery)

CR7:
N503MJ parked IAD
N505MJ parked IAD
N507MJ parked IAD
N511MJ parked IAD

The continued return of CRJ200’s is just disheartening as a frequent flyer.

Got my first trip on the CRJ550 and thought if they can run this at a profit I hope it is the way forward.

(Counting down the commenters about to say ‘lucky you have service at all’ in 5..4..3..2...)

sldispatcher wrote:

The continued return of CRJ200’s is just disheartening as a frequent flyer.

Got my first trip on the CRJ550 and thought if they can run this at a profit I hope it is the way forward.

(Counting down the commenters about to say ‘lucky you have service at all’ in 5..4..3..2...)

I'm with you 100% on this. I'm wondering if the increased CR2 flying instead of "nicer" equipment is partially a SCOPE issue.???

Tail number N16008 (the 78X Boeing grounded) reentered revenue service yesterday.

It operated UA57-09 EWR-CDG, then UA56-10 CDG-EWR.

Tonight it is operating UA960-10 EWR-FRA.

sldispatcher wrote:

The continued return of CRJ200’s is just disheartening as a frequent flyer.

Got my first trip on the CRJ550 and thought if they can run this at a profit I hope it is the way forward.

(Counting down the commenters about to say ‘lucky you have service at all’ in 5..4..3..2...)

The issues with the CRJ550 is the fact they don't have thst many right now so they need then on the routes where they will definitely nake money. The second is more of a gyess but the CRJ700s require up to 650ft of extra runway so on some of the ESA routes they may not be viable.

Personally I enjoy the CRJ200s, however I regularly fly from an ESA airport with 20~30 people so I usually have my own row

jayunited wrote:

Here are a few updates out today October 8, 2020

Furloughs: No Deal, dispatchers have voted down the TA between UAL and PAFCA, as a result United will move forward with furloughs on November 1, 2020.

Facilities: There may be a buyer for the Elk Grove Village facility but we have heard that before. Employees at Elk Grove will move to the Arlington Heights facility at some point next year (no time frame given). Lastly Willis Tower, for the first time UA confirmed they did try to break the lease with Willis Tower but the building owners will not allow UA out of the contract. The City of Chicago is also involved and putting pressure on building owners in the downtown and other central business areas to not let business out of their leases because the City wants (NEEDS) business to come back once a vaccine is in circulation. Employees will continue to work from home, for some this could be permanent while other will have to return to Willis Tower once we have a vaccine in circulation. Im sure Chicago is not alone in pressuring building owner to not allow business to break their leases.

Operations: United has slightly increase the number of domestic departures for the October and November schedules. Highlights: EWR with the November schedule will go from 117 daily departures to 147 daily departures (the first increase for EWR since the July schedule). ORD, IAH and DEN continue to perform well, however ORD UA's domestic departures will probably stay where they are for the remainder of the year. It was pointed out that AA has cut quite a few flights from their October and November schedules out of ORD and WN at MDW is looking like they will remain flat. This has taken some pressure off UA in Chicago especially with the AA cuts. IAH will remain flat as well going forward even with the higher LF's we are seeing out of IAH UA will hold capacity. DEN is the big winner here. DEN continues to be UA's most profitable hub and continues to see the highest LF's out of all our hubs. As such with our November schedule DEN will once again take over the top spot as UA's busiest hub. The expectation is DEN will retain that title for some time especially seeing we are heading into winter and ski season where the LF's could go even higher. While IAD, SFO or LAX were not highlighted individually, they will probably remain flat or see an ever so slight increase in capacity. We are still not seeing a sustained long term increase in demand in California or Washington D.C. like we are at our other hubs so I imagine UA will continue to increase capacity when needed through upgrading flights 72-24 hours before departure out of IAD, SFO and LAX. United may or may not increase domestic capacity with our December schedule (which they are still working on) however after December, it will be hunker down to survive the winter January through March. If there is no capacity increase in December it means the November bump could potentially be the last capacity increase we see from UA until April 2021.

Holidays: Thanksgiving is a bust and our November schedule especially our Thanksgiving (Wednesday through Sunday) schedule reflects this reality. United was holding out hope for a huge spike in demand over the Thanksgiving travel period but we just are not seeing it materialize in actual ticket sales. Although our final December schedule is not out the general consensus is if Thanksgiving is a bust Christmas will probably be a bust as well. People have gone this long without seeing their family, and friends, it looks like without a vaccine the vast majority of people are just not willing to risk it for the Thanksgiving and probably the Christmas holiday.

It is disappointing that IAH wouldn’t see some capacity growth with high loads. WN just announced a ton of new routes from HOU which could cut in if UA doesn’t do a little more. Would love to see GRR and RIC come back and one more bank of flights.