Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
United1
Posts: 4194
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:38 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
jayunited wrote:
codc10 wrote:

Kirby has discussed a return to OAK, but aside from that, I don't know if anything will change with regard to United's strategy, which has been vigorous competition with Southwest on battlegrounds throughout the country.

I don't know if HOU or MDW would be on the table, but I can see OAK for sure.



United still owns gates at MDW, gate that we lease out to WN.

Not saying UA is going back to MDW but we still own a few gates over there.


How many gates does UA own and why don't they use them?


Can't tell you how many but they don't use them for the same reason they sub-lease the DAL gates to WN. They are not markets that UA thinks it can generate enough revenue to cover their costs rather they get a better ROI by leasing them out.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:40 pm

United1 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
The game just changed. WN will launch service to IAH and ORD in 2021. They are directly going after UA. I hope UA responds in some way.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... al-airport


WN has been going directly after UA (and AA, DL, AS ect) for years...ie this is nothing new...I'm also not sure UA will have a lot to respond to. WN is going to have to go into T5, which is already rather constrained, so they are not going to be able to offer more of than a handful of flights. To me this is more WN catering to their FFers and offering them an ORD (and IAH option) vs making the trek down to MDW/HOU.


That is too dismissive IMO.

The whole reason UA has been as aggressive as it has in DEN is to fight off WN and its worked for UA. I dont see why they wouldnt try the same (albeit on a smaller scale) from IAH and to a lesser degree ORD. Why let your competitor cut into your business and do nothing?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
GreenCountry
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:33 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:51 pm

toga998 wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
It is disappointing that IAH wouldn’t see some capacity growth with high loads. WN just announced a ton of new routes from HOU which could cut in if UA doesn’t do a little more. Would love to see GRR and RIC come back and one more bank of flights.


Did IAH, UA and the TSA finish the baggage system upgrades at IAH? As I recall, that was a limitation at IAH pre-COVID, but it was being expanded to allow more flights. As it was, there was a practical limitation on the number of flights as there was a limit on the number of bags that could be processed.


This was a problem Kirby addressed in early February, so the likelihood of the problem being fixed by now is unlikely. With a much smaller volume of flights going out/coming in I can't see this as being a top priority, but I can't confirm the exact details.


I believe Phase 1 of the project was well underway and was to have been completed last December (2019). Phase 2 (including the construction of a new building) was to have started early this year. I thought it had started; but not sure if it's ongoing.
 
United1
Posts: 4194
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:12 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
United1 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
The game just changed. WN will launch service to IAH and ORD in 2021. They are directly going after UA. I hope UA responds in some way.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... al-airport


WN has been going directly after UA (and AA, DL, AS ect) for years...ie this is nothing new...I'm also not sure UA will have a lot to respond to. WN is going to have to go into T5, which is already rather constrained, so they are not going to be able to offer more of than a handful of flights. To me this is more WN catering to their FFers and offering them an ORD (and IAH option) vs making the trek down to MDW/HOU.


That is too dismissive IMO.

The whole reason UA has been as aggressive as it has in DEN is to fight off WN and its worked for UA. I dont see why they wouldnt try the same (albeit on a smaller scale) from IAH and to a lesser degree ORD. Why let your competitor cut into your business and do nothing?


They certainly haven't been successful at fighting off WN at DEN as pre Covid it was on track to become WNs largest station. Both WN and UA have grown exponentially at DEN mostly at F9s expense but also by re-directing connecting traffic through DEN which is a phenomenal place to connect through.

You don't have to hit back at everything a competitor does in order to be successful in business. As an example I live in Alameda CA and make the trek across the bay to SFO when I am jetting about as I am a UA FFer. Lets say UA reenters OAK with a handful of flights to DEN, LAX and IAH. I would not see that as a shot at WN rather it's UA catering to its own passengers needs. There are times I would rather do the 20 minute drive down to OAK and connect via DEN vs heading over to SFO and catching a non-stop. If I am flying back east I was never going to pick WN anyway so not like it's costing WN a customer and UA now has an open seat on the non-stop flight they can sell.

Likewise WN launches a handful of flights on ORD-DEN, DAL, MCO and BWI. For the most part that is going to attract folks who were either going to fly WN out of MDW anyway but find ORD more convenient, are price sensitive and are not loyal to any airline. Neither of those two categories of passengers are people UA is chasing after as it is. And as for WN lowering fares....not really true any longer.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:59 pm

United1 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
The game just changed. WN will launch service to IAH and ORD in 2021. They are directly going after UA. I hope UA responds in some way.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... al-airport


WN has been going directly after UA (and AA, DL, AS ect) for years...ie this is nothing new...I'm also not sure UA will have a lot to respond to. WN is going to have to go into T5, which is already rather constrained, so they are not going to be able to offer more of than a handful of flights. To me this is more WN catering to their FFers and offering them an ORD (and IAH option) vs making the trek down to MDW/HOU.

I have not lived in either city, but this doesn't seem to make that much of a benefit for the cities. I get the benefits of LGA over EWR, DCA over BWI/IAD, HND over NRT, but I would have thought the benefits of HOU vs IAH or ORD vs MDW might just be which side of the cities you happen to live on. They both seem equidistant from downtowns, and in Chicago, both have easy access to trains. I'm not saying service to both airports isn't a plus to FF's, but I don't see how it makes it a game changer against the competition. As an out of towner, I wouldn't mind flying into either airport in Houston or Chicago. Of course, I've never flown into MDW or HOU, since I fly UA.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4340
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:36 am

United1 wrote:
WN has been going directly after UA (and AA, DL, AS ect) for years...ie this is nothing new...I'm also not sure UA will have a lot to respond to.

Did somebody just say "Shuttle by United"? These battles have gone back and forth for decades, so yeah, it's nothing new. It's all a chess game, and at least in recent years, nobody really loses. Or in the case of 2020, everybody loses, and the challenge is to lose less than the other guys. WN opening some routes from UA hubs is more of a blip on the radar than a shot across the bow.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:16 am

UAX Update:

E145:
N15986 exited fleet, stored IGM
N16987 exited fleet, stored IGM
N14993 exited fleet, stored IGM

CR2:
N438AW returned to flying with Air Wisconsin

N437SW (ex-DL 2001 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
N438SW (ex-DL 2001 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
N464SW returned to flying with Skywest
N953SW (ex-DL 2003 build) entered UAX revenue service with Skywest (EvoBlu)
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:00 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
WN opening some routes from UA hubs is more of a blip on the radar than a shot across the bow.


I tend to agree with your view as well. This is not the same United that was at war with ALPA years ago when WN was able to come in the front door and set up shop in DEN while UA was busy shrinking by parking their 733 fleet. There is generally labor peace at UA and with the current environment and I would hope that cooler heads will prevail on all sides to help preserve the company's long-term survival.

I look at the WN move as more of a testament to the desirability of United's airport hubs. No one is busting down the doors to get into MDW, BWI or HOU. I don't see UA moving back into MDW or HOU in any scenario.

WN chose not to compete and withdrew from EWR. ORD will have even steeper competition and comparable user fees to contend with. If WN ends up in T5 and they end up landing on 27R, 9L or 10R the taxi times could be a rude awakening for them.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4340
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:28 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
WN opening some routes from UA hubs is more of a blip on the radar than a shot across the bow.


I tend to agree with your view as well. This is not the same United that was at war with ALPA years ago when WN was able to come in the front door and set up shop in DEN while UA was busy shrinking by parking their 733 fleet. There is generally labor peace at UA and with the current environment and I would hope that cooler heads will prevail on all sides to help preserve the company's long-term survival.

I look at the WN move as more of a testament to the desirability of United's airport hubs. No one is busting down the doors to get into MDW, BWI or HOU. I don't see UA moving back into MDW or HOU in any scenario.

WN chose not to compete and withdrew from EWR. ORD will have even steeper competition and comparable user fees to contend with. If WN ends up in T5 and they end up landing on 27R, 9L or 10R the taxi times could be a rude awakening for them.

Exactly. WN is just looking for a taste at two UA hubs. That's the same reason UA added P2P flying at LGA. Right now, it feels like everybody is flinging poo at the dart board to see what sticks. They're all going to need to develop some creative solutions to generate some leisure travel, since by all accounts business travel will remain dry for the foreseeable future. I don't think airlines are even challenging each other so much as they're seeking out ways to stop the bleeding. Certainly the last thing any of them needs right now are labor disputes.
 
IADFan
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:05 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 pm

I have a question about IAD banks. It seems that there is no late morning departing bank on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Is that correct?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:57 pm

IADFan wrote:
I have a question about IAD banks. It seems that there is no late morning departing bank on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Is that correct?


Correct.
 
UA857
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:59 pm

In my opinion UA should ditch these following types.

A359: Convert the order into more 788/78Js
752: Can be replaced by Polaris 7MJ and A32X
753: Can be replaced by domestic 7MJ
763/764: Can be replaced by 788
772: Can be replaced by 77W/789/78J

This is what I would do if I was in Kirby´s shoes right now.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 947
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 pm

UA857 wrote:
In my opinion UA should ditch these following types.

A359: Convert the order into more 788/78Js
752: Can be replaced by Polaris 7MJ and A32X
753: Can be replaced by domestic 7MJ
763/764: Can be replaced by 788
772: Can be replaced by 77W/789/78J

This is what I would do if I was in Kirby´s shoes right now.


Eventually, ditch the 73Gs and replaced with used A319s and, when things recover, new A223’s.
 
777luver
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:44 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:27 pm

UA857 wrote:
In my opinion UA should ditch these following types.

A359: Convert the order into more 788/78Js
752: Can be replaced by Polaris 7MJ and A32X
753: Can be replaced by domestic 7MJ
763/764: Can be replaced by 788
772: Can be replaced by 77W/789/78J

This is what I would do if I was in Kirby´s shoes right now.


That’s what you would do. Is that what United wants to do? That’s the question
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3233
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:36 pm

UA857 wrote:
In my opinion UA should ditch these following types.

A359: Convert the order into more 788/78Js
752: Can be replaced by Polaris 7MJ and A32X
753: Can be replaced by domestic 7MJ
763/764: Can be replaced by 788
772: Can be replaced by 77W/789/78J

This is what I would do if I was in Kirby´s shoes right now.

I believe that's 186 units to be replaced. How soon could that take place, especially after whatever the recovery from the pandemic will take?
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:22 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
UA857 wrote:
In my opinion UA should ditch these following types.

A359: Convert the order into more 788/78Js
752: Can be replaced by Polaris 7MJ and A32X
753: Can be replaced by domestic 7MJ
763/764: Can be replaced by 788
772: Can be replaced by 77W/789/78J

This is what I would do if I was in Kirby´s shoes right now.

I believe that's 186 units to be replaced. How soon could that take place, especially after whatever the recovery from the pandemic will take?


Exactly.

It’s going to take time to replace everything. The 788 is too big and has too much range for many UA flights. What’s really needed is an aircraft optimized for 5000-6200nm range. Enough to cover Hawaii, South America, and certain Trans Atlantic markets. Boeing really screwed up by not launching the 797. Airbus took a comfortable A321, turned it into a flying gas tank called the XLR and Boeing has nothing to offer.

The real question is will UA follow DL footsteps in holding out until 2025 before removing the 767’s ?
 
gdavis003
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:53 am

Surprised I haven't seen anything else about this. Seems like a pretty scary situation for the crew. Not sure who is really to blame here, seems like ATC wouldn't let them deviate from 120 heading, but maybe pilots should have pushed back a little more. Not sure who is technically going to be at fault for that one, but scary situation nonetheless https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8_lMgRVGno
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4340
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:56 am

gdavis003 wrote:
Surprised I haven't seen anything else about this. Seems like a pretty scary situation for the crew. Not sure who is really to blame here, seems like ATC wouldn't let them deviate from 120 heading, but maybe pilots should have pushed back a little more. Not sure who is technically going to be at fault for that one, but scary situation nonetheless https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8_lMgRVGno

ATC wouldn't be at fault unless the controller failed to issue weather to the pilot, which is now required as a duty priority (previously it was workload dependent). These videos are clipped, so it's hard to know whether or not that occurred without hearing the full tapes. The pilot requested a deviation, but if the crew felt it was necessary, it's up to them to communicate to ATC that they are unable to accept the assigned course. If ATC still refuses to permit a deviation, the crew is free to exercise their emergency authority and deviate as necessary. It is their responsibility to ensure safety of their aircraft. Of course ATC should act to assist the crew to the extent the controller is able, but ultimately it's on the pilots to make those decisions.

That said, I'm not implying the crew is at fault either — deviating around areas of extreme precipitation can be challenging, particularly during heavy workload periods on departure and arrival. Usually the weather radar in the cockpit gives a much better short-range picture (NEXRAD for ATC gives a much better overall picture), but what you see isn't always what you get. Scary, yes, but not necessarily anybody's fault, and it appears that everything went as it should after the emergency was declared. I don't think blame is likely to be determined with an incident like this, but it will be noted for recurrent training for controllers and likely pilots alike.

IADFan wrote:
I have a question about IAD banks. It seems that there is no late morning departing bank on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Is that correct?

Tuesdays and Wednesdays are the slowest days during the week anyway, with Saturday typically being the slowest day overall. Traffic tends to peak on Thursday into Friday and Sunday into Monday. At least in the northeast, Thursday and Sunday evenings are the busiest periods. I believe UA already trimmed IAD for October anyway, and I believe many of those cuts occurred on the morning bank, which almost seems nonexistent some days even when they are running the bank. I don't know how the afternoon bank compares to previous months in raw numbers, but it seems to be quite a bit slower than when travel peaked mid summer. My understanding is that the November and December schedules are mirroring October at IAD, and then it's anyone's guess what happens after that. It's pretty likely that January to March will be pretty rough.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3022
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:40 pm

Here are a few tidbits pertaining to the network from today's employees earnings live virtual event.

1) United sees no reason right now to announce any further aircraft retirements. Kirbys stated he isn't sure why UA is being pressured to follow our competitor in announcing large fleet retirements. I'm going to assume UA must be getting pressure from Wall Street to announce retirements now even if the aircraft remain in the fleet for a few more years. Kirby for now is resisting that pressure and beside the PW 752s that have been retired UA has nothing further to announce.

2) United's Burn rate. An employee asked when UA expected to hit $0 daily burn rate or what would the projected burn rate be at the end of Q1 2021, and I found the answer interesting. UA expects the burn rate in Q2 to get as low at $15 million per day, but then the conversation shifted to the start of Q2 2021 and UA expects in Q2 2021 to start "waking the airline up". What was stated in the town hall was in Q1 UA might begin doing maintenance to begin getting some aircraft currently parked in the desert ready to fly again. So UA can not say at this time if our burn rate will hit $0 by the end of Q1 2021 or remain somewhere between $0 and $15 million dollars. I didn't really like that answer because there is a huge gap between $0 dollars and $15 million dollars if we are able to get our burn rate down to $15 million in Q4 2020.

3) United will expand testing. United has seen an overwhelming response to our COVID testing for Hawaii out of SFO that we will be expanding it to other airports. Also UA is in talks with the US government and other governments as to how we can use testing to open international borders by testing on both sides. I took that to mean testing before a person departs and testing when the aircraft lands before a person is cleared through customs.

4) Kirby was a bit more optimistic than Delta's CEO. I believe Delta's CEO stated it will be around a 2 yer recovery, Kirby stated 12-15 months. I don't think Kirby meant in 12-15 months UA would be back to our pre-COVID levels but I think what he meant was in that time frame he expects to see significant improvement from where we are today. Our VP of Finance did stress multiple times based on information being given to UA, UA is planning on "waking the airline up in Q2 2021". I don't want to speculate as to what that means but they did stress our government affairs department has been involved in a lot of issues in Washington D.C. this includes but is not limited to a CARES act 2. No one directly mentioned any vaccine but this town hall was probably the most optimistic I've seen Kirby and his executive team especially when talking about or referencing Q2 2021.
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:48 am

jayunited wrote:
3) United will expand testing. United has seen an overwhelming response to our COVID testing for Hawaii out of SFO that we will be expanding it to other airports. Also UA is in talks with the US government and other governments as to how we can use testing to open international borders by testing on both sides. I took that to mean testing before a person departs and testing when the aircraft lands before a person is cleared through customs.


I would like to see that. I don't know if it should or could be a requirement for everyone as of now, but I do like to get tested before I fly, and several people I know who are flying again like to do the same. Having rapid testing at the airport would be a great convenience over having to do it myself ahead of time.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5431
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:13 pm

"United Airlines Announces Eight New Routes and Increases Flights to 19 Destinations in the Caribbean, Central America and Mexico for Winter Sun-Seekers"

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-16-unite ... 28755.html
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3044
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/SJO, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:13 pm

United has announced several new routes and increased flights to 19 destinations:

New routes:
- Saturday-only from Los Angeles and San Jose, Costa Rica starting December 19, then increase to daily on January 5, 2021.
- 3x weekly from Los Angeles to San Pedro Sula, Honduras starting December 17, 2020.
- Saturday-only from San Francisco to Liberia, Costa Rica starting January 9, 2021.
- 3x weekly from Los Angeles to Liberia starting January 8, 2021.
- Launching Denver to San Jose, Costa Rica and Belize City
- Launching Washington-Dulles to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.

Cleveland to Cancun and Houston to Mazaltan will restart on December 19.

Increased routes:

Increasing service between Chicago and Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between Denver and Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between Houston and Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo, Puerto Vallarta and Zihuatanejo
Increasing service between Los Angeles and Cancun, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between New York/Newark and Cancun, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between San Francisco and Cancun.
Increasing service between Washington Dulles and Cancun.
Increasing to ten-times weekly service between Los Angeles and Guatemala City, Guatemala.
Increasing to eleven-times weekly service between Los Angeles and San Salvador, El Salvador.
Increasing to twice daily service between Washington and San Salvador.


https://hub.united.com/2020-10-16-unite ... 28755.html
 
airzona11
Posts: 1784
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:22 pm

Makes sense, put flights where the O/D is where they have a large FF base / overall big cities.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:27 pm

Feel the like press release puts a lot of emphasis on LAX and IAD.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:39 pm

Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:41 pm

I wish UA would launch IAH-FRS. That would be a great route for a leisure market.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4340
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:45 pm

The fleet changes, fleet status, and repaint status posts at the start of this thread have been updated.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:48 pm

tphuang wrote:
Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.


For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.
Last edited by DoctorVenkman on Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3344
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:50 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I wish UA would launch IAH-FRS. That would be a great route for a leisure market.


it was great when CO flew that, would certainly love to see it come back.
 
x1234
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:58 pm

Smart for UA to fill those Central America gaps from LAX after DL pulled out. SJO and PTY are the highest yielding Central America destinations from the US. UA's *A partner COPA already flies PTY-SFO/LAX.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
"United Airlines Announces Eight New Routes and Increases Flights to 19 Destinations in the Caribbean, Central America and Mexico for Winter Sun-Seekers"

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-16-unite ... 28755.html


Chasing leisure travelers.

Hopefully, they at least cover their direct operating cost on these flights with whatever fares they can generate.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8479
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:01 pm

LIR and SJO are certainly tourism spots but San Pedro Sula looks more VFR to me.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14150
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.


Lots of Americans own vacation homes and time shares in Mexico and Costa Rica.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3884
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:26 pm

A few of these flights look like a response to B6's LAX expansion.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:32 pm

Very interesting developments. I believe both LAX-GUA and LAX-SAL were recent service resumptions, and are already being increased! LAX-SJO operated previously via GUA; this may be the first time UA operates this route nonstop. These LAX-Central America routes seem to have attracted the interest of several U.S. carriers lately - B6 and DL spring to mind as well as UA. I believe AA and NK have flown the routes in recent years too. DEN-BZE was operated by WN while F9 flew DEN-SJO.. these might be firsts for UA though? All in all, nice to see UA leveraging its hub structure to take advantage of as much Latin America VFR and leisure traffic as possible.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
avi8
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:52 pm

I’ve been hearing Central American flights to the US are going out full. Let’s see if other airlines follow suit. Come December, DL, UA, AV and Volaris will all be on the LAX-GUA/SAL market.
avi8
 
Nonrevhell
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:54 pm

Glad to see more service to CR. But, Southwest never did well on LAX-LIR.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:03 pm

title needs to be corrected. DEN-LIR is a resumption, new service to SJO.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2475
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:25 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
title needs to be corrected. DEN-LIR is a resumption, new service to SJO.


Why? It was "announced" - that is 100% correct. It has no bearing on resumption versus new service.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:48 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
title needs to be corrected. DEN-LIR is a resumption, new service to SJO.


Why? It was "announced" - that is 100% correct. It has no bearing on resumption versus new service.


Because the new routes are DEN-BZE/SJO not DEN-BZE/LIR.

Denver-area travelers now have more nonstop opportunities to get to Latin America than ever before. With its new service to Belize and San Jose, United now offers nonstop service to eight destinations in Latin America from Denver.

Starting new nonstop service between Denver and Belize City, Belize.
Starting new nonstop service between Denver and San Jose, Costa Rica.
Continuing nonstop service between Denver and Cancun, Cozumel, Puerto Vallarta, San Jose del Cabo, Nassau and Liberia.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:15 pm

Great adds from UA! Very cool to see the shift in strategy to beach markets from non-hub/spoke cities as well as Central America adds from the west and east coasts. In particular, fortifying LAX with more Latin adds is a really neat development to see.
 
User avatar
AASAP777
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:24 pm

Wow, didn't see this one coming. LAX-SAP nonstop has never been tried before, but I'm pretty sure this will work perfectly as many Hondurans live in the Western U.S. Last time SAP was linked directly with LAX was with a two-stop in the late 80s with LACSA routing SJO-SAP-GUA-MEX-LAX on 72S first (I flew on the way back in 88) and A320s.

Great news! I hope they work this as a red-eye from LAX.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
panamair
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:02 pm

x1234 wrote:
Smart for UA to fill those Central America gaps from LAX after DL pulled out. SJO and PTY are the highest yielding Central America destinations from the US.


DL is still flying LAX-SJO; service resumes Dec 17.
 
User avatar
AASAP777
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LIR and SJO are certainly tourism spots but San Pedro Sula looks more VFR to me.


It is indeed. If flown as a red eye from LAX, many good connections by land and air can be done in the morning from SAP to the rest of the country. Flights and direct bus from SAP Airport to Tegucigalpa, as well as flight connections to La Ceiba and Roatán.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:31 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I wish UA would launch IAH-FRS. That would be a great route for a leisure market.

CO served this route many years ago with an E-145 I believe
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:43 pm

Desperation but very smart. Try to get seats in markets where there is demand or where demand can be crested. Business routes are dead for 2021 writing is on the wall, they need to find new routes to ride this out until business demand is back.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:01 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.


For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.


I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5431
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:27 pm

UALFAson wrote:
DoctorVenkman wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.


For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.


I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.


South Florida & Hawaii are way ahead of national avg in terms of bookings

Midwestindy wrote:
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6194
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:29 pm

AASAP777 wrote:
Wow, didn't see this one coming. LAX-SAP nonstop has never been tried before, but I'm pretty sure this will work perfectly as many Hondurans live in the Western U.S. Last time SAP was linked directly with LAX was with a two-stop in the late 80s with LACSA routing SJO-SAP-GUA-MEX-LAX on 72S first (I flew on the way back in 88) and A320s.

Great news! I hope they work this as a red-eye from LAX.


While I agree that a 3x weekly flight to LAX from SAP seems like a good add, the statement that lots of Hondurans live in the Western US I dont really agree with. LA is the only place in the Western US with any size of a Honduran community and I would agree with the statement "a lot of Hondurans live in LA", but Hondurans overwhelmingly prefer Texas and the East Coast:

Largest Honduran populations as of 2019 by metro area. All over 10,000 listed.
Houston: 122,620
New York City: 121,235
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 105,539
Los Angeles: 67,694
Washington DC: 58,733
Dallas/Fort Worth: 34,352
Charlotte: 28,773
New Orleans: 28,459
Atlanta: 26,523
Austin: 22,231
Boston: 17,560
Chicago: 14,255
Tampa: 14,222
San Francisco: 13,470
Baltimore: 13,300
Philadelphia: 12,796
Orlando: 12,471
Kansas City: 12,062
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:40 pm

UALFAson wrote:
DoctorVenkman wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.


For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.


I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.


I am sure that is not an issue. All those resorts are so empty right now. It's not like anywhere is full and they are just adding seats. It's a problem the resorts would like to have, but it's not even close to an issue right now

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos