LAXdude1023 wrote:

I wish UA would launch IAH-FRS. That would be a great route for a leisure market.

CO served this route many years ago with an E-145 I believe

Desperation but very smart. Try to get seats in markets where there is demand or where demand can be crested. Business routes are dead for 2021 writing is on the wall, they need to find new routes to ride this out until business demand is back.

DoctorVenkman wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.

For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.

I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.

UALFAson wrote:

DoctorVenkman wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.

For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.

I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.

South Florida & Hawaii are way ahead of national avg in terms of bookings

Midwestindy wrote:

https://forwardkeys.com/bookings-to-mex ... promising/

AASAP777 wrote:

Wow, didn't see this one coming. LAX-SAP nonstop has never been tried before, but I'm pretty sure this will work perfectly as many Hondurans live in the Western U.S. Last time SAP was linked directly with LAX was with a two-stop in the late 80s with LACSA routing SJO-SAP-GUA-MEX-LAX on 72S first (I flew on the way back in 88) and A320s.

Great news! I hope they work this as a red-eye from LAX.

While I agree that a 3x weekly flight to LAX from SAP seems like a good add, the statement that lots of Hondurans live in the Western US I dont really agree with. LA is the only place in the Western US with any size of a Honduran community and I would agree with the statement "a lot of Hondurans live in LA", but Hondurans overwhelmingly prefer Texas and the East Coast:

Largest Honduran populations as of 2019 by metro area. All over 10,000 listed.
Houston: 122,620
New York City: 121,235
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 105,539
Los Angeles: 67,694
Washington DC: 58,733
Dallas/Fort Worth: 34,352
Charlotte: 28,773
New Orleans: 28,459
Atlanta: 26,523
Austin: 22,231
Boston: 17,560
Chicago: 14,255
Tampa: 14,222
San Francisco: 13,470
Baltimore: 13,300
Philadelphia: 12,796
Orlando: 12,471
Kansas City: 12,062

UALFAson wrote:

DoctorVenkman wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.

For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.

I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.

I am sure that is not an issue. All those resorts are so empty right now. It's not like anywhere is full and they are just adding seats. It's a problem the resorts would like to have, but it's not even close to an issue right now

Ishrion wrote:

United has announced several new routes and increased flights to 19 destinations:

New routes:
- Saturday-only from Los Angeles and San Jose, Costa Rica starting December 19, then increase to daily on January 5, 2021.
- 3x weekly from Los Angeles to San Pedro Sula, Honduras starting December 17, 2020.
- Saturday-only from San Francisco to Liberia, Costa Rica starting January 9, 2021.
- 3x weekly from Los Angeles to Liberia starting January 8, 2021.
- Launching Denver to San Jose, Costa Rica and Belize City
- Launching Washington-Dulles to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.

Cleveland to Cancun and Houston to Mazaltan will restart on December 19.

Increased routes:

Increasing service between Chicago and Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between Denver and Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between Houston and Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo, Puerto Vallarta and Zihuatanejo
Increasing service between Los Angeles and Cancun, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between New York/Newark and Cancun, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between San Francisco and Cancun.
Increasing service between Washington Dulles and Cancun.
Increasing to ten-times weekly service between Los Angeles and Guatemala City, Guatemala.
Increasing to eleven-times weekly service between Los Angeles and San Salvador, El Salvador.
Increasing to twice daily service between Washington and San Salvador.

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-16-unite ... 28755.html

Weren’t most of these loaded for sale a couple of weeks ago?

There was some talk a bit back about testing for crew members on the resumed SFO-PVG flight.

Well it seems both ALPA and AFA backed of their refusal to test upon arrival in China.
Per note, crew members will be tested both in SFO before departure as a pro-active step to mitigate the chances of a positive result when tested on arrival in PVG to complying with Chinese requirement.
Also crews will no longer stay at their regular city layover hotel, but be self-quarantine in their hotel rooms at a PVG airport hotel instead.

LAXintl wrote:

There was some talk a bit back about testing for crew members on the resumed SFO-PVG flight.

Well it seems both ALPA and AFA backed of their refusal to test upon arrival in China.
Per note, crew members will be tested both in SFO before departure as a pro-active step to mitigate the chances of a positive result when tested on arrival in PVG to complying with Chinese requirement.
Also crews will no longer stay at their regular city layover hotel, but be self-quarantine in their hotel rooms at a PVG airport hotel instead.

The change in layover hotel was expected because even with a negative COVID test, crews will still not be allowed to leave their hotel rooms. With those restrictions still in place there is no reason to send them into the city.

I think it is the best plan to test before they depart SFO this way there is a high probability that the same test results will show up when you're tested again on arrival in PVG. PVG's COVID test is not the invasive test being performed in HKG, so I'm glad ALPA and AFA back off their refusal, thus allowing UA to resume nonstop service.

UAX Update:

E145:
N13992 exited fleet, stored IGM

E145XR:
N25134 exited fleet, stored IGM
N11184 ferried MCN
N11189 ferried MCN
N11192 ferried MCN

CR2:
N913EV (ex-DL 2002 build) entered UAX service with Skywest (EvoBlu livery)
N920EV (ex-DL 2003 build) entered UAX service with Skywest (EvoBlu livery)
N953SW is in EvoBlu livery
N494CA (floater) ferried ROW for EvoBlu paint for transfer to UAX fleet
N442AW returned to flying with Air Wisconsin
N448AW returned to flying with Air Wisconsin

enilria wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

United has announced several new routes and increased flights to 19 destinations:

New routes:
- Saturday-only from Los Angeles and San Jose, Costa Rica starting December 19, then increase to daily on January 5, 2021.
- 3x weekly from Los Angeles to San Pedro Sula, Honduras starting December 17, 2020.
- Saturday-only from San Francisco to Liberia, Costa Rica starting January 9, 2021.
- 3x weekly from Los Angeles to Liberia starting January 8, 2021.
- Launching Denver to San Jose, Costa Rica and Belize City
- Launching Washington-Dulles to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.

Cleveland to Cancun and Houston to Mazaltan will restart on December 19.

Increased routes:

Increasing service between Chicago and Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between Denver and Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between Houston and Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose del Cabo, Puerto Vallarta and Zihuatanejo
Increasing service between Los Angeles and Cancun, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between New York/Newark and Cancun, San Jose del Cabo and Puerto Vallarta.
Increasing service between San Francisco and Cancun.
Increasing service between Washington Dulles and Cancun.
Increasing to ten-times weekly service between Los Angeles and Guatemala City, Guatemala.
Increasing to eleven-times weekly service between Los Angeles and San Salvador, El Salvador.
Increasing to twice daily service between Washington and San Salvador.

https://hub.united.com/2020-10-16-unite ... 28755.html

Weren’t most of these loaded for sale a couple of weeks ago?

I think the increases are available but United says the new routes will be available for booking from October 17/21.

United adds 2x daily IAD to Erie from December 17

https://www.erienewsnow.com/story/42777 ... les-dec-17

LAXdude1023 wrote:

AASAP777 wrote:

Wow, didn't see this one coming. LAX-SAP nonstop has never been tried before, but I'm pretty sure this will work perfectly as many Hondurans live in the Western U.S. Last time SAP was linked directly with LAX was with a two-stop in the late 80s with LACSA routing SJO-SAP-GUA-MEX-LAX on 72S first (I flew on the way back in 88) and A320s.

Great news! I hope they work this as a red-eye from LAX.

While I agree that a 3x weekly flight to LAX from SAP seems like a good add, the statement that lots of Hondurans live in the Western US I dont really agree with. LA is the only place in the Western US with any size of a Honduran community and I would agree with the statement "a lot of Hondurans live in LA", but Hondurans overwhelmingly prefer Texas and the East Coast:

Largest Honduran populations as of 2019 by metro area. All over 10,000 listed.
Houston: 122,620
New York City: 121,235
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 105,539
Los Angeles: 67,694
Washington DC: 58,733
Dallas/Fort Worth: 34,352
Charlotte: 28,773
New Orleans: 28,459
Atlanta: 26,523
Austin: 22,231
Boston: 17,560
Chicago: 14,255
Tampa: 14,222
San Francisco: 13,470
Baltimore: 13,300
Philadelphia: 12,796
Orlando: 12,471
Kansas City: 12,062

The West Coast can have a number of catrachos on many other places served or closed to destinations served by UA from LAX. Even places as YVR can be reached now easily through LAX. The math will work perfectly for UA.

As the entire industry spitballs in efforts to stimulate demand or capture some traffic flows, these routes make some sense, as these are among the few international destinations that Americans can travel to, and as others have pointed out, quite a number of US citizens own homes in Central America. The reality though is that travel will remain soft until there is a vaccine.

I've heard UA's Central American flights are performing much better than expected. Can anyone confirm this?

avi8 wrote:

I've heard UA's Central American flights are performing much better than expected. Can anyone confirm this?

The fact that a bunch of new Central American flights were just announced is confirmation of this.

jayunited wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

There was some talk a bit back about testing for crew members on the resumed SFO-PVG flight.

Well it seems both ALPA and AFA backed of their refusal to test upon arrival in China.
Per note, crew members will be tested both in SFO before departure as a pro-active step to mitigate the chances of a positive result when tested on arrival in PVG to complying with Chinese requirement.
Also crews will no longer stay at their regular city layover hotel, but be self-quarantine in their hotel rooms at a PVG airport hotel instead.

The change in layover hotel was expected because even with a negative COVID test, crews will still not be allowed to leave their hotel rooms. With those restrictions still in place there is no reason to send them into the city.

I think it is the best plan to test before they depart SFO this way there is a high probability that the same test results will show up when you're tested again on arrival in PVG. PVG's COVID test is not the invasive test being performed in HKG, so I'm glad ALPA and AFA back off their refusal, thus allowing UA to resume nonstop service.

The PVG hotel was in the city center, stayed there many times and saw the crews checking in. Used to play the "who can get there first game." At PVG, there are a few options, but I doubt they rival the downtown location. With the virus around, if I were a crew member, I would prefer to stay at the airport anyhow. It's a sacrifice for sure and thanks to the crew for doing this.

Anyone know how the PVG demand has been? I know there's a lot of US companies with all the manufacturing in China that have to be getting antsy after 6 months of not seeing the operations.

AASAP777 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

AASAP777 wrote:

Wow, didn't see this one coming. LAX-SAP nonstop has never been tried before, but I'm pretty sure this will work perfectly as many Hondurans live in the Western U.S. Last time SAP was linked directly with LAX was with a two-stop in the late 80s with LACSA routing SJO-SAP-GUA-MEX-LAX on 72S first (I flew on the way back in 88) and A320s.

Great news! I hope they work this as a red-eye from LAX.

While I agree that a 3x weekly flight to LAX from SAP seems like a good add, the statement that lots of Hondurans live in the Western US I dont really agree with. LA is the only place in the Western US with any size of a Honduran community and I would agree with the statement "a lot of Hondurans live in LA", but Hondurans overwhelmingly prefer Texas and the East Coast:

Largest Honduran populations as of 2019 by metro area. All over 10,000 listed.
Houston: 122,620
New York City: 121,235
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 105,539
Los Angeles: 67,694
Washington DC: 58,733
Dallas/Fort Worth: 34,352
Charlotte: 28,773
New Orleans: 28,459
Atlanta: 26,523
Austin: 22,231
Boston: 17,560
Chicago: 14,255
Tampa: 14,222
San Francisco: 13,470
Baltimore: 13,300
Philadelphia: 12,796
Orlando: 12,471
Kansas City: 12,062

The West Coast can have a number of catrachos on many other places served or closed to destinations served by UA from LAX. Even places as YVR can be reached now easily through LAX. The math will work perfectly for UA.

But they don’t. LA is the only place in the western half of North America with a sizable Honduran community. This route will be fine I think but it will be about O&D not connections.

fun2fly wrote:

jayunited wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

There was some talk a bit back about testing for crew members on the resumed SFO-PVG flight.

Well it seems both ALPA and AFA backed of their refusal to test upon arrival in China.
Per note, crew members will be tested both in SFO before departure as a pro-active step to mitigate the chances of a positive result when tested on arrival in PVG to complying with Chinese requirement.
Also crews will no longer stay at their regular city layover hotel, but be self-quarantine in their hotel rooms at a PVG airport hotel instead.

The change in layover hotel was expected because even with a negative COVID test, crews will still not be allowed to leave their hotel rooms. With those restrictions still in place there is no reason to send them into the city.

I think it is the best plan to test before they depart SFO this way there is a high probability that the same test results will show up when you're tested again on arrival in PVG. PVG's COVID test is not the invasive test being performed in HKG, so I'm glad ALPA and AFA back off their refusal, thus allowing UA to resume nonstop service.

The PVG hotel was in the city center, stayed there many times and saw the crews checking in. Used to play the "who can get there first game." At PVG, there are a few options, but I doubt they rival the downtown location. With the virus around, if I were a crew member, I would prefer to stay at the airport anyhow. It's a sacrifice for sure and thanks to the crew for doing this.

Anyone know how the PVG demand has been? I know there's a lot of US companies with all the manufacturing in China that have to be getting antsy after 6 months of not seeing the operations.

Flights to PVG (via ICN) have been "full" as of late. I use quotation marks with 'full' because there is a China-imposed pax load restriction of 75% for inbound flights.

UAX Update:

E145:
N29906 exited fleet, stored IGM

E145XR:
N12136 (ex-UAX TransStates) ferried ALB for transfer to CommutAir, 2003 build
N14153 (ex-UAX TransStates) ferried ALB for transfer to CommutAir, 2003 build

E175SC:
N82366 delivered to Mesa
N87367 delivered to Mesa
N87368 delivered to Mesa
N85369 delivered to Mesa
N85370 delivered to Mesa

adamblang wrote:

avi8 wrote:

I've heard UA's Central American flights are performing much better than expected. Can anyone confirm this?

The fact that a bunch of new Central American flights were just announced is confirmation of this.

I was hoping someone had some inside information. No need to be sarcastic about it.

We’re all wishing traffic picks up ASAP.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

I wish UA would launch IAH-FRS. That would be a great route for a leisure market.

The former Continental Airlines flew CO IAH-FRS 2x weekly with the 50-seater Embraer 145.
The last flight was in 2006, if I recall correctly.

Regards.

x1234 wrote:

Smart for UA to fill those Central America gaps from LAX after DL pulled out. SJO and PTY are the highest yielding Central America destinations from the US.

DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly with 752 and AS LAX-SJO 4x weekly with 738 were operating prior to the Covid-19 crisis.
However, I ignore their resumptions plans, in such route.
The southbound sector on DL LAX-SJO was working as red-eyes. Same on DL LAX-GUA.
On the other hand, AV SJO-GUA-LAX 7x weekly also wasn't in service, since many months ago.
Their competitors are taking advantage in that regard. B6 LAX-SJO 7x weekly with 320 was already announced by December 18th.

Regards.

SurfandSnow wrote:

Very interesting developments. I believe both LAX-GUA and LAX-SAL were recent service resumptions, and are already being increased! LAX-SJO operated previously via GUA; this may be the first time UA operates this route nonstop. These LAX-Central America routes seem to have attracted the interest of several U.S. carriers lately - B6 and DL spring to mind as well as UA. I believe AA and NK have flown the routes in recent years too. DEN-BZE was operated by WN while F9 flew DEN-SJO.. these might be firsts for UA though? All in all, nice to see UA leveraging its hub structure to take advantage of as much Latin America VFR and leisure traffic as possible.

UA LAX-GUA-SJO was indeed in service from the 90s. I remember CO LAX-SAL as seasonal flights during the US summer break.
NK LAX-GUA was briefly operated when Spirit entered in Central America, back in 2007. That service was axed on favour of NK FLL-GUA.
The largest Central American markets from Los Angeles in terms of the VFR market are rather focused in El Salvador and Guatemala.
Historically, the largest amount of regional non-stop flights to California were departing from these places.

Regards.

I have flown CUN-CLE before nonstop on UA in 2015. I never knew they stopped it.

AASAP777 wrote:

Last time SAP was linked directly with LAX was with a two-stop in the late 80s with LACSA routing SJO-SAP-GUA-MEX-LAX on 72S.

Yes, indeed. I can almost remember this route stopping in San Pedro Sula.
LACSA since 1980 was also flying LR SJO-SAL-MEX-LAX with 72S. Sometimes LR SJO-GUA-MEX-LAX.
Pan Am briefly flew PA LAX-GUA-SJO with 747, in the late 70s. AA LAX-SAL-GUA with 752 as well, in the 90s.
The regular non-stops services linking Los Angeles and Costa Rica just began in 2014: DL LAX-SJO with 752.

Regards.

United is now operating nonstop cargo only flights between the U.S. and PVG. Today UA2808-18 ORD-PVG and UA2815-18 LAX-PVG resumed nonstop service eliminating the need for a tech stop for crew change in NRT (for the ORD flight) and GUM (for the LAX flight). It was already announced passenger service nonstop flights between SFO-PVG would resume on October 21st.

However all of our PEK and CTU cargo only flights are still doing a tech stop for crew change. Right now UA crew members are not allowed to layover at either of those locations.

Quick fleet update
77E: N792UA is schedule to be pulled out of storage at ROW and flown to HKG via SFO/NRT for heavy maintenance.
73G: N15710 is being pulled out of ROW and flown to MCO for maintenance
37K: N68805 is being pulled out of ROW and flown to MCO for maintenance.

It looks like the plan is to return the 737 and the 739 to passenger service after they leave MCO, I'm not sure what the plans are the 77E once it leaves HKG.

Thanks to jayunited and others for the balanced info and insight.

The airline certainly feels like it is gaining some momentum with loads, upgrade lists, airport foot traffic on flights over the last two weeks.

Brighter days are ahead.

klwright69 wrote:

I have flown CUN-CLE before nonstop on UA in 2015. I never knew they stopped it.

It has been seasonal and usually less than daily ever since the pulldown of the CLE hub

It hadn't been loaded yet for this winter so it wasn't clear if they planned on operating it this year.

I've checked on the schedules. It will be a red-eye from LAX to SAP and an early morning departure from SAP. Great schedule! Leaving LAX at 10:45pm Thursday, Saturday an Sundays, arriving into SAP at 5:47am+1. Return at 7:00 am with arrival in LAX at 10:40am on Monday, Friday and Sunday..

Some new domestic United routes:

- IAD to Allentown, Erie, and Pensacola
- ORD to Fort Walton Beach (VPS) and Panama City, FL (ECP). I think these two are returning seasonals?
- IAH to Key West

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

SJOtoLIR wrote:

The regular non-stops services linking Los Angeles and Costa Rica just began in 2014: DL LAX-SJO with 752.

Disclaimer: The former GRUPO TACA flew TA SJO-LAX 3x weekly, on behalf of LACSA with the 320-family.
It happened in 2000 - 2010 and prior to the merger with Avianca Colombia.

SJOtoLIR wrote:

AA LAX-SAL-GUA with 752

I meant AA LAX-SAL-SJO.

SJOtoLIR wrote:

SJOtoLIR wrote:

AA LAX-SAL-GUA with 752

I meant AA LAX-SAL-SJO.

On the near past, 2000s and 2010s, AA had service from both SAL and SJO to LAX, but with separate flights. AA798 was SAL-LAX and AA928 SJO-LAX. And even on the 90s, but for a brief period, AA tried LAX-GUA/SAL/SJO. I think AA kept until recently the BZE-LAX service too.

Ishrion wrote:

Some new domestic United routes:

- IAD to Allentown, Erie, and Pensacola
- ORD to Fort Walton Beach (VPS) and Panama City, FL (ECP). I think these two are returning seasonals?
- IAH to Key West

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

I don't recall UA ever serving ORD-VPS, and if they did it hasn't been around long. I'm not sure about ECP, but I believe that's new as well. For years, UA only served IAH from VPS on a once or twice daily 145 as a legacy CO route (no prior UA service at all; they were only in PNS), and up until they added Denver recently, that was all there was. They were pretty nonexistent in the market for a long time.

It's good to see UA add some outreach to smaller areas of Florida, which has traditionally been a weak point for them, but with everybody focusing on sunny markets to survive this winter, they're clearly just jumping on the bandwagon. I'm glad to see IAD-PNS return though.

I know this has been discussed very broadly but does anyone have any numbers on how the UA hubs are performing? For example, Loads factors and numbers of flights vs YOY. I’m assuming DEN/IAH are carry the recovery. ORD/IAD are doing okay. SFO and EWR seem a little slow. EWR definitely seems to be picking up more traction compared to JFK. As for LAX, UA seems to be becoming a bit more aggressive here.

atcsundevil wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Some new domestic United routes:

- IAD to Allentown, Erie, and Pensacola
- ORD to Fort Walton Beach (VPS) and Panama City, FL (ECP). I think these two are returning seasonals?
- IAH to Key West

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

I don't recall UA ever serving ORD-VPS, and if they did it hasn't been around long. I'm not sure about ECP, but I believe that's new as well. For years, UA only served IAH from VPS on a once or twice daily 145 as a legacy CO route (no prior UA service at all; they were only in PNS), and up until they added Denver recently, that was all there was. They were pretty nonexistent in the market for a long time.

It's good to see UA add some outreach to smaller areas of Florida, which has traditionally been a weak point for them, but with everybody focusing on sunny markets to survive this winter, they're clearly just jumping on the bandwagon. I'm glad to see IAD-PNS return though.

I'm pretty sure UA was flying from ORD to all three of PNS/VPS/ECP before the pandemic, although only weekend service and possibly summer only.

atcsundevil wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Some new domestic United routes:

- IAD to Allentown, Erie, and Pensacola
- ORD to Fort Walton Beach (VPS) and Panama City, FL (ECP). I think these two are returning seasonals?
- IAH to Key West

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

I don't recall UA ever serving ORD-VPS, and if they did it hasn't been around long. I'm not sure about ECP, but I believe that's new as well. For years, UA only served IAH from VPS on a once or twice daily 145 as a legacy CO route (no prior UA service at all; they were only in PNS), and up until they added Denver recently, that was all there was. They were pretty nonexistent in the market for a long time.

It's good to see UA add some outreach to smaller areas of Florida, which has traditionally been a weak point for them, but with everybody focusing on sunny markets to survive this winter, they're clearly just jumping on the bandwagon. I'm glad to see IAD-PNS return though.

UA is not jumping on the bandwagon, UA served VPS and ECP from ORD seasonally before the pandemic. I believe UA began seasonal service sometime in 2018 on these routes from ORD.

Also I'm not really sure what crankyflier.com has been doing for the past 8 months, but for them to also post a whole bunch of 767 and 777 flights have been moved to 787s leads me to believe somebody over there hasn't been paying attention. UA with every schedule change has been replacing traditional 767 and 777 international routes with 787s and UA is resuming seasonal flights to Florida at least from ORD.

Here is a link from April 2019 when UA announced new year around nonstop service between IAD-SRQ and IAD-RSW and extended seasonal service IAD-MIA. The link also displays all of UA's hubs and the Florida destinations passenger could reach from each of those hubs.
https://united.mediaroom.com/2019-04-10 ... da-Service

UA looking to raise more money and is seeking to $3bn through an enhanced equipment trust certificate (EETC) issuance, which is secured on a collateral pool of spare parts, spare engines and aircraft, currently valued at $5.8bn.

The collateral package comprises ALL of UA spare parts inventory, 99 spare engines representing all of the airline’s spare engines, and 352 aircraft across 11 variants, which has represents 43% of United’s mainline operating fleet.

Here is the prospectus
https://ir.united.com/static-files/fac0 ... 5d0f6be01b

LAXintl wrote:

The collateral package comprises ALL of UA spare parts inventory, 99 spare engines representing all of the airline’s spare engines, and 352 aircraft across 11 variants, which has represents 43% of United’s mainline operating fleet.

There are some old aircraft in there. One might recall that UA tried to collateralize this bunch of aircraft before (before they did the MileagePlus loan) and decided to pull the offering when it looked like rates might be 11.75% annually.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/05/ ... ering.aspx

Do you want to lend money against a 26-year-old 757? Not me.

jayunited wrote:

UA is not jumping on the bandwagon

They're adding winter frequencies to sunny locations, are they not? They are absolutely jumping on the bandwagon. How else would you describe their LGA experiment that runs totally contrary to their traditionally rigid hub and spoke model?

atcsundevil wrote:

jayunited wrote:

UA is not jumping on the bandwagon

They're adding winter frequencies to sunny locations, are they not? They are absolutely jumping on the bandwagon. How else would you describe their LGA experiment that runs totally contrary to their traditionally rigid hub and spoke model?

It’s safe to say more experiments like this will come in the future. Remember a few years ago, UA tried LGA-RDU with a republic E-175.

atcsundevil wrote:

jayunited wrote:

UA is not jumping on the bandwagon

They're adding winter frequencies to sunny locations, are they not? They are absolutely jumping on the bandwagon. How else would you describe their LGA experiment that runs totally contrary to their traditionally rigid hub and spoke model?

Now you are throwing in LGA, but your original comment that I commented on had nothing to do with LGA. Don't try to change direction now and include point to point routes now when the post you commented on was clearly directed towards UA hubs.

You want to say UA is jumping on the bandwagon from LGA you are100% correct, but to say we are jumping on the bandwagon when you are referencing certain hubs is clearly not true.

jayunited wrote:

Now you are throwing in LGA, but your original comment that I commented on had nothing to do with LGA. Don't try to change direction now and include point to point routes now when the post you commented on was clearly directed towards UA hubs.

You want to say UA is jumping on the bandwagon from LGA you are100% correct, but to say we are jumping on the bandwagon when you are referencing certain hubs is clearly not true.

You might want to re-read what I said.

"with everybody focusing on sunny markets to survive this winter, they're clearly just jumping on the bandwagon."

That's not an incorrect statement, so I can throw LGA or whatever else in there if it involves sunny markets.

atcsundevil wrote:

jayunited wrote:

Now you are throwing in LGA, but your original comment that I commented on had nothing to do with LGA. Don't try to change direction now and include point to point routes now when the post you commented on was clearly directed towards UA hubs.

You want to say UA is jumping on the bandwagon from LGA you are100% correct, but to say we are jumping on the bandwagon when you are referencing certain hubs is clearly not true.

You might want to re-read what I said.

"with everybody focusing on sunny markets to survive this winter, they're clearly just jumping on the bandwagon."

That's not an incorrect statement, so I can throw LGA or whatever else in there if it involves sunny markets.

I did reread your original post, and no where in that post are you referencing any point to point routes. In your post you specifically referenced ORD, IAH, DEN and IAD. Point to point routes like LGA, BOS, MKE, were never mentioned by you or anyone else not even the cranky flyer article.

Again if you are talking about point to point routes you are 100% correct UA is jumping on the band wagon. However your post is talking about UA hubs (which you clearly mentioned) while referencing jumping on a bandwagon is not 100% correct. UA has been adding routes to secondary cities in Florida from our hubs since 2018.

MIflyer12 wrote:

There are some old aircraft in there. One might recall that UA tried to collateralize this bunch of aircraft before (before they did the MileagePlus loan) and decided to pull the offering when it looked like rates might be 11.75% annually.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/05/ ... ering.aspx

Do you want to lend money against a 26-year-old 757? Not me.

Indeed.

The Financial Times takes a similar view with an apt title. After this there wont be much left to mortgage as they are throwing in just about anything random they can as collateral.

United throws ‘kitchen sink’ at investors to secure $3bn borrowing
https://www.ft.com/content/b11a4b7f-b18 ... 922db6d731

In good news though they managed a 6% interest rate, far better than last time when creditors wanted 10%+ (Though as the article mentions investment-grade corporate bonds are closer to 2% yield today).
Also Goldman Sachs agreed to provide a liquidity line to cover 18-months of interest payments.

All told this makes $22bil United has raised in the last 7-months. One heck of a pile of debt to dig out of.

LAXintl wrote:

UA looking to raise more money and is seeking to $3bn through an enhanced equipment trust certificate (EETC) issuance, which is secured on a collateral pool of spare parts, spare engines and aircraft, currently valued at $5.8bn.

The collateral package comprises ALL of UA spare parts inventory, 99 spare engines representing all of the airline’s spare engines, and 352 aircraft across 11 variants, which has represents 43% of United’s mainline operating fleet.

Here is the prospectus
https://ir.united.com/static-files/fac0 ... 5d0f6be01b

Fascinating to see what these planes are worth. Some of those 77As have a value barely above $1 million, and also interesting to see how much more valuable the GE-powered 77Es are than the PW ones.

LAXintl wrote:

Indeed.

The Financial Times takes a similar view with an apt title. After this there wont be much left to mortgage as they are throwing in just about anything random they can as collateral.

United throws ‘kitchen sink’ at investors to secure $3bn borrowing
https://www.ft.com/content/b11a4b7f-b18 ... 922db6d731

In good news though they managed a 6% interest rate, far better than last time when creditors wanted 10%+ (Though as the article mentions investment-grade corporate bonds are closer to 2% yield today).
Also Goldman Sachs agreed to provide a liquidity line to cover 18-months of interest payments.

All told this makes $22bil United has raised in the last 7-months. One heck of a pile of debt to dig out of.

I had no idea that their Moody's credit rating dropped to Ba2 (considered "junk" in the non investment grade/speculative category). American is sitting just below at Ba3 and Delta only just in the prime category. I hadn't realized they'd ended up this over leveraged and seemingly short on options. If things don't break even by 2Q2021 as Kirby hopes, it seems pretty imperative that there be additional stimulus. In either case, it seems like their debt load is going to cripple them for years to come without an epic turnaround. I hate to use the "B" word, but seems like it may be the only way out for at least a couple of US airlines in the coming years.

UAX Update:

E145:
N16559 exited fleet, stored IGM
N12563 exited fleet, stored IGM
N15980 exited fleet, stored IGM
N14991 exited fleet, stored IGM

CR2:
N910EV (ex-DL 2002 build) entered UAX service with Skywest (EvoBlu livery)

CR7:
N512MJ return to flying

intotheair wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

UA looking to raise more money and is seeking to $3bn through an enhanced equipment trust certificate (EETC) issuance, which is secured on a collateral pool of spare parts, spare engines and aircraft, currently valued at $5.8bn.

The collateral package comprises ALL of UA spare parts inventory, 99 spare engines representing all of the airline’s spare engines, and 352 aircraft across 11 variants, which has represents 43% of United’s mainline operating fleet.

Here is the prospectus
https://ir.united.com/static-files/fac0 ... 5d0f6be01b

Fascinating to see what these planes are worth. Some of those 77As have a value barely above $1 million, and also interesting to see how much more valuable the GE-powered 77Es are than the PW ones.

Remembering back to my Accounting classes in grad school (it's a bit foggy, so don't take me as an expert), but they may not be able to value some assets higher if they have already depreciated them in years past, or they might be subject to higher taxes on something equivalent to a sales gain in value. If they were actually selling the planes, the increased value would more than make up for the taxes on that increased value of a depreciated asset, but as they are only leveraging their value for credit, they would be paying a chunk of the money they need to borrow in taxes.

If someone else is currently a tax professional, feel free to clean up the mess that I just wrote.