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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:55 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
So in the current environment with loads on the upswing, will it be upgauges or frequency additions first? I’m guessing leisure travel is not as frequency driven, just availabilty.



This is just my opinion but I think there is a 50/50 chance that UA might continue upguages, going from a 738 to a 739ER, or from a A319 to an A320 or we may not see any upgugages.

Now that we have the results of the DOD test which demonstrates how safe the air is on airplanes, and with customers being more comfortable on fuller aircraft I think UA is getting a bit more comfortable with fuller aircraft and we might see less upguages especially with WN no longer blocking seats starting December 1st. Remember UA did a lot of upguaging as a means of social distancing. For a few months (June-August) UA kept saying fewer than 10% of all our flights departed over 70% capacity. However in September we started to see an increase in demand especially out of DEN and IAH and there were plenty of flights out of these two hubs that exceed 70% capacity in September. I think (again only my opinion) but I think we are moving away from the strategy of upguaging and just letting the flight operate with the scheduled equipment.

We are still informing passengers if their flight is over 70% capacity but the number of passengers who voluntarily change their flight from what I've heard is miniscule.

From the employees earning live event Kirby did state he wasn't looking to grow the airline again until next year beginning around Spring Break.

If there is a sizable increase in demand and UA sees an opportunity UA may added frequency in November and December. If we do add frequency in December I would expect a lot of it to be pulled down once we hit January. I think UA may get back to growing the airline in the Spring of 2021 but only if there is a viable vaccine, and only if there is some signs of the vaccine being distributed.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
Now that we have the results of the DOD test which demonstrates how safe the air is on airplanes,


Lets not fall to the PR talking pieces the airline industry wants you to believe. The test was extremely narrow with increasing flaws being pointed out including by an infectious diseases specialist who took part. Study also provides zero insight into the remainder of the air travel process from ground transportation, to airports, etc.

The subject we can be discussed in another thread in greater detail if you want.

jayunited wrote:
If there is a sizable increase in demand and UA sees an opportunity UA may added frequency in November and December. If we do add frequency in December I would expect a lot of it to be pulled down once we hit January. I think UA may get back to growing the airline in the Spring of 2021 but only if there is a viable vaccine, and only if there is some signs of the vaccine being distributed.


I see United chasing random opportunity here and there, but with COVID cases on the rise again and corporate travel deep in the doldrums don't think there will be many opportunities worth throwing assets and cost at.
Focus this winter must be on minimizing cash bleed in what is already a seasonally weaker period.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
andrew1996
Posts: 154
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:47 pm

jayunited wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
With SQ relaunching nonstop SIN-NYC 3X weekly in anticipation of growing demand and cargo and idea if UA is relaunchng SFO-SIN with passengers soon and/or convert its GUM -SIN cargo service to passengers too? Did SQ choose to restart NYC over SFO because they felt UA was relaunching it soon?



From the U.S. the only people allowed to enter Singapore are residents or those who have duel citizenship.

At this point in time there is no way for UA to eliminate the tech stop in GUM on our cargo flights, because our flight crew members are allowed entry into Singapore.

Also from the thread devoted to this topic it seems like SQ is launching this route primarily because they have a cargo contract not because there are a ton of passengers needing to travel between NYC and Singapore.


I think flight crews from USA (and elsewhere) are all allowed into SIN but have to stay in the airport hotel so I thought GUM was more of a stop to ensure a full payload of cargo can be flown down to SG as opposed to crew issues. Are these flights full of cargo or is the cargo load also pretty low? I suppose they probably are also selling space to like Fedex, DHL etc and possibly to Canada bound cargo space. I know SIN was never really a cargo focus for UA given all the payload restrictions UA1/29 used to face
 
United1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:00 pm

cosyr wrote:
So I know that UA has not specifically confirmed any retirements due to COVID yet, but looking at this picture from Roswell (https://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/6189725/L) there is a 752 in the top left with its engines removed. I know that UA was retiring PW 752s prior to COVID, and there are also many retired AA MD80's, but there are also a lot of short term stored UA and AA aircraft mixed in with the retired planes. I also cannot read the reg on that particular plane.


That may be one of the RR power aircraft as it has a satellite dome (or whatever the proper name of that thing is) on the top of the fuselage. I don't think the PW powered 752's have those unless they were retrofitted when they started putting a better WiFi system into those aircraft. Even if it is a RR powered 752 it doesn't mean it was retired...UA could have just needed a spare engine.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
rjmf22
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:11 pm

United restarts IAD-TLV tonight. UA72 departs IAD tonight at 6:05 PM and lands at TLV at 10:45 AM tomorrow.
United Airlines
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:31 pm

jayunited wrote:
We are still informing passengers if their flight is over 70% capacity but the number of passengers who voluntarily change their flight from what I've heard is miniscule.

I think that is because it just isn't practical to change flights. I took a round trip last month, with 4 flights that all ended up about 90% full. I got the email that I could change my flights if I was uncomfortable with that, but what used to be 15-16 flights a day from SYR was down to just 4. All of those flights would be 80-100% full for most of the next week, so what flight do you change to?

I'm not blaming UA for the full flights, or the lack of them...COVID. But offering passengers the opportunity to change flights when they're over 70% is a joke compared with blocking middle seats. Especially now that UA eliminated change fees, the 70% policy is next to useless if you're concerned about density. Right now, you're either comfortable flying or your not. Keeping middle seats open, might make more people comfortable, but would obviously make every flight more expensive to operate. No good answer.

As an aside, a woman on my first flight of that trip did have a panic attack, and got off the plane before we left the gate. I don't know if it was because of density, the fact that someone else chose to sit in her seat before she boarded, or just a fear of flying unrelated to COVID.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:17 pm

LAXintl wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Now that we have the results of the DOD test which demonstrates how safe the air is on airplanes,


Lets not fall to the PR talking pieces the airline industry wants you to believe. The test was extremely narrow with increasing flaws being pointed out including by an infectious diseases specialist who took part. Study also provides zero insight into the remainder of the air travel process from ground transportation, to airports, etc.

The subject we can be discussed in another thread in greater detail if you want.


We can agree to just disagree on this topic. There is no such thing as zero risk I will give you that, but with the current mask mandate I'm very much comfortable on an aircraft as I am anywhere there is a crowd because I follow the CDC guidelines to the letter. If you believe air travel isn't safe during COVID I respect your opinion. However there are people on both side of this issue who come up with data to support their point of view, and I will leave it there.

LAXintl wrote:
jayunited wrote:
If there is a sizable increase in demand and UA sees an opportunity UA may added frequency in November and December. If we do add frequency in December I would expect a lot of it to be pulled down once we hit January. I think UA may get back to growing the airline in the Spring of 2021 but only if there is a viable vaccine, and only if there is some signs of the vaccine being distributed.


I see United chasing random opportunity here and there, but with COVID cases on the rise again and corporate travel deep in the doldrums don't think there will be many opportunities worth throwing assets and cost at.
Focus this winter must be on minimizing cash bleed in what is already a seasonally weaker period.


I 100% agree with what you are saying here which is why I stated any additional frequency added in December (if it happens) would be pulled down in January. I'm not expecting UA to get back into growth mode until Q2 2021 but only if there is a vaccine. Even then if there is a vaccine I don't expect UA to fly more than 55% of our pre-COVID schedule in all of 2021.
Last edited by jayunited on Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
gdavis003
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:19 pm

Has Skywest cancelled everything in and out of Denver for this evening for the most part due to the snow? Seeing tons of OO flights on behalf of UAX were cancelled yesterday, and there are lots of repositioning flights scheduled to accommodate Monday morning turns. Even showing one going BHM-SJC on a CRJ7
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:39 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
I think flight crews from USA (and elsewhere) are all allowed into SIN but have to stay in the airport hotel so I thought GUM was more of a stop to ensure a full payload of cargo can be flown down to SG as opposed to crew issues. Are these flights full of cargo or is the cargo load also pretty low? I suppose they probably are also selling space to like Fedex, DHL etc and possibly to Canada bound cargo space. I know SIN was never really a cargo focus for UA given all the payload restrictions UA1/29 used to face



I'm not sure if you are a UA employee or not but if you are log on to Flying Together and search entry requirements around the world. Then search for Singapore, afterwards go down to crew exemption and you will see there are no crew exemptions for schedule layovers. Flight crews and cabin crews who are not Singapore citizens or hold dual citizenship will NOT be allowed entry into Singapore. The only exception is if the aircraft has a maintenance issue that can't be fixed before the crew times out then the flight and cabin crew would then be escorted to the Crowne Plaza Hotel Changi Airport. They are then confined to their individual rooms until departure. If you are not a UA employee then perhaps doing a Google search will help clear this up for you.

United Airlines cannot schedule a layover in Singapore and without the ability to have our crews layover we can not resume nonstop flights to SIN from SFO.
 
audidudi
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:36 am

rjmf22 wrote:
United restarts IAD-TLV tonight. UA72 departs IAD tonight at 6:05 PM and lands at TLV at 10:45 AM tomorrow.

According to the seat map, there were 70/219 seats occupied...10 Polaris, 18 Economy Plus and 52 Economy, with a B788 config of 36/70/113. So exactly a 33 1/3% load factor!
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:03 am

UAX Update:

E145:
N15912 exited fleet, stored IGM

E145XR:
N17159 ferried YQB
N13132 (ex-AX 2003 build) ferried ALB for induction with CommutAir

CR2:
N445AW returned to flying with Air Wisconsin
 
andrew1996
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:04 am

jayunited wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
I think flight crews from USA (and elsewhere) are all allowed into SIN but have to stay in the airport hotel so I thought GUM was more of a stop to ensure a full payload of cargo can be flown down to SG as opposed to crew issues. Are these flights full of cargo or is the cargo load also pretty low? I suppose they probably are also selling space to like Fedex, DHL etc and possibly to Canada bound cargo space. I know SIN was never really a cargo focus for UA given all the payload restrictions UA1/29 used to face



I'm not sure if you are a UA employee or not but if you are log on to Flying Together and search entry requirements around the world. Then search for Singapore, afterwards go down to crew exemption and you will see there are no crew exemptions for schedule layovers. Flight crews and cabin crews who are not Singapore citizens or hold dual citizenship will NOT be allowed entry into Singapore. The only exception is if the aircraft has a maintenance issue that can't be fixed before the crew times out then the flight and cabin crew would then be escorted to the Crowne Plaza Hotel Changi Airport. They are then confined to their individual rooms until departure. If you are not a UA employee then perhaps doing a Google search will help clear this up for you.

United Airlines cannot schedule a layover in Singapore and without the ability to have our crews layover we can not resume nonstop flights to SIN from SFO.


I am not a UA employee but I thought entry was allowed into SIN because I read stories about their pilots doin layovers in sin for flights where they are confined to their hotel room. Apprently their hotel card for that airport hotel allowed for a single entry only. Now I wonder though how are European airlines still serving SIN able to layover crew in SIN as they are not flying back to SIn on the same day? In fact during summer there was a photo of KLM’s crew in the empty check in hall preparing to go back to AMS and since they were pictured in the check in hall they passed immigration some day before.

Currently KLM, BA, AF, LH, Swiss etc are all Lon haul airlines serving SIN. I also suspect QR is laying over crew and not doing a same day turn around

Edit: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckIOM/sta ... 8656385028

Here’s a BA pilot during the height of Singapore border restriction saying he did layover in SIn so I don’t think SIn ever banned flight crew
 
jumpseat67
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:01 am

audidudi wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
United restarts IAD-TLV tonight. UA72 departs IAD tonight at 6:05 PM and lands at TLV at 10:45 AM tomorrow.

According to the seat map, there were 70/219 seats occupied...10 Polaris, 18 Economy Plus and 52 Economy, with a B788 config of 36/70/113. So exactly a 33 1/3% load factor!


It went out with 59 total, 4 up front, 55 in the back.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:21 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Currently KLM, BA, AF, LH, Swiss etc are all Lon haul airlines serving SIN. I also suspect QR is laying over crew and not doing a same day turn around

I tried to parse Singapore's entry requirements but IATA's terrible formatting makes it clear as mud: https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/world.php

If European crews are laying over, there must be something in the regulations that permits it.

Also, European governments tend to take proactive, evidenced-based steps to mitigate COVID while the U.S. government has been – to be polite – less than on top of things. That may play a factor in the Singapore border authorities' decision making as well.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:08 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
I am not a UA employee but I thought entry was allowed into SIN because I read stories about their pilots doin layovers in sin for flights where they are confined to their hotel room. Apprently their hotel card for that airport hotel allowed for a single entry only. Now I wonder though how are European airlines still serving SIN able to layover crew in SIN as they are not flying back to SIn on the same day? In fact during summer there was a photo of KLM’s crew in the empty check in hall preparing to go back to AMS and since they were pictured in the check in hall they passed immigration some day before.

Currently KLM, BA, AF, LH, Swiss etc are all Lon haul airlines serving SIN. I also suspect QR is laying over crew and not doing a same day turn around

Edit: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckIOM/sta ... 8656385028

Here’s a BA pilot during the height of Singapore border restriction saying he did layover in SIn so I don’t think SIn ever banned flight crew



None of the airlines you've mentioned are based here in the U.S.

I don't know if Europeans or Middle Easterners are permitted entry into Singapore and to be honest I don't feel like looking it up. What I do know is this, ALL U.S. citizens including flight crews are NOT permitted entry into Singapore at this time. Just because other carriers are flying nonstop to Singapore has no barring on United Airlines and our ability to operate nonstop to Singapore.
 
bwvilla
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:12 pm

jayunited wrote:
.. Flight crews and cabin crews who are not Singapore citizens or hold dual citizenship will NOT be allowed entry into Singapore...


So just Singapore citizens then, as Singapore does not permit its citizens to also simultaneously hold citizenship of another country.
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
andrew1996
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:34 pm

jayunited wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
I am not a UA employee but I thought entry was allowed into SIN because I read stories about their pilots doin layovers in sin for flights where they are confined to their hotel room. Apprently their hotel card for that airport hotel allowed for a single entry only. Now I wonder though how are European airlines still serving SIN able to layover crew in SIN as they are not flying back to SIn on the same day? In fact during summer there was a photo of KLM’s crew in the empty check in hall preparing to go back to AMS and since they were pictured in the check in hall they passed immigration some day before.

Currently KLM, BA, AF, LH, Swiss etc are all Lon haul airlines serving SIN. I also suspect QR is laying over crew and not doing a same day turn around

Edit: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckIOM/sta ... 8656385028

Here’s a BA pilot during the height of Singapore border restriction saying he did layover in SIn so I don’t think SIn ever banned flight crew



None of the airlines you've mentioned are based here in the U.S.

I don't know if Europeans or Middle Easterners are permitted entry into Singapore and to be honest I don't feel like looking it up. What I do know is this, ALL U.S. citizens including flight crews are NOT permitted entry into Singapore at this time. Just because other carriers are flying nonstop to Singapore has no barring on United Airlines and our ability to operate nonstop to Singapore.



There was a case in Singapore concerning an Anchorage based US pilot for FedEx who entered Singapore as part of his layover so us crews are allowed entry like the other flight crew. The FedEx pilot made news because he was told to stay in his hotel room but instead he left the airport hotel and was arrested for it. Not sure though if cargo pilots are different but the press release noted he was in the US in the two weeks before he entered Singapore and this was at the peak of Singapore border closure in March

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguar ... an-yeargan
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:38 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
andrew1996 wrote:
I am not a UA employee but I thought entry was allowed into SIN because I read stories about their pilots doin layovers in sin for flights where they are confined to their hotel room. Apprently their hotel card for that airport hotel allowed for a single entry only. Now I wonder though how are European airlines still serving SIN able to layover crew in SIN as they are not flying back to SIn on the same day? In fact during summer there was a photo of KLM’s crew in the empty check in hall preparing to go back to AMS and since they were pictured in the check in hall they passed immigration some day before.

Currently KLM, BA, AF, LH, Swiss etc are all Lon haul airlines serving SIN. I also suspect QR is laying over crew and not doing a same day turn around

Edit: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckIOM/sta ... 8656385028

Here’s a BA pilot during the height of Singapore border restriction saying he did layover in SIn so I don’t think SIn ever banned flight crew



None of the airlines you've mentioned are based here in the U.S.

I don't know if Europeans or Middle Easterners are permitted entry into Singapore and to be honest I don't feel like looking it up. What I do know is this, ALL U.S. citizens including flight crews are NOT permitted entry into Singapore at this time. Just because other carriers are flying nonstop to Singapore has no barring on United Airlines and our ability to operate nonstop to Singapore.



There was a case in Singapore concerning an Anchorage based US pilot for FedEx who entered Singapore as part of his layover so us crews are allowed entry like the other flight crew. The FedEx pilot made news because he was told to stay in his hotel room but instead he left the airport hotel and was arrested for it. Not sure though if cargo pilots are different but the press release noted he was in the US in the two weeks before he entered Singapore and this was at the peak of Singapore border closure in March

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguar ... an-yeargan



Singapore put the ban in place in late July 2020 the incident you are referring to took place in late April. In April US citizen were still allowed entry into Singapore but were required to quarantine 14 days or the duration of their visit which ever was shorter.

If we go back UA planned on resuming SIN passenger service back in July via HKG. That plan was iced first by the more restrictive entry requirements at HKG then later in July is when Singapore put out an updated travel restriction list and the U.S. was added to their banned list, a list we remain on to this day with no exceptions.

I get there are a lot of moving pieces on the board but do some real research and stop trying to cherry pick things that only prove your point of view. If I had permission I would post the entire restrictions from Flying Together and UA updates the list weekly or whenever a country updates their travel restrictions. I'm not understanding what you are trying to prove here but even though you are not a UA employee all of this information is still available to the public by simply researching it fully.

bwvilla wrote:
jayunited wrote:
.. Flight crews and cabin crews who are not Singapore citizens or hold dual citizenship will NOT be allowed entry into Singapore...


So just Singapore citizens then, as Singapore does not permit its citizens to also simultaneously hold citizenship of another country.


Singapore allows citizens to maintain dual citizenship until the age of 21 if that citizenship is acquired by birth in another country. Meaning if you are born here in the U.S. and move to Singapore and become a citizen of Singapore on your 21st birthday you have to make a decision to either to either retain your U.S. citizenship or give it up and keep your Singapore citizenship.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:19 pm

Is it possible United goes off the board and adds some point to point Caribbean an or Hawaii routes? I saw both were performing better than the average right now.
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:57 am

UAX Update:

E145:
N11547 exited fleet, stored IGM
N12900 exited fleet, stored IGM

E145XR:
N14203 exited fleet, stored IGM
N13132 entered revenue service with CommutAir
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1918
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:34 pm

Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter
 
DeltaB717
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:21 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director


Just wondering if this webcast is available anywhere pls? TIA
 
splitterz
Posts: 198
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:52 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter



Nothing groundbreaking. I'm kind of glad the 764 is leaving. I don't want to fly the old Diamond seats anymore!
 
joeljack
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:42 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter


Nicknuzzii wrote:
Is it possible United goes off the board and adds some point to point Caribbean an or Hawaii routes? I saw both were performing better than the average right now.


I saw somebody wrote that United extended the P2P sun routes for a few more months. I really think their are additional opportunities from these midwest cities to sun destinations as well as from other midwest destinations that have seen strong recoveries in flying activity. I wonder if more will be added for winter/ spring of this year or if some of it will stick around after covid?
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:50 am

splitterz wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter



Nothing groundbreaking. I'm kind of glad the 764 is leaving. I don't want to fly the old Diamond seats anymore!

If the 764 is dead, the death is caused by Door 2, which doesn't properly align with Polaris seats. DL loves them and has then retrofitted in their lie flats.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:24 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter



I didn't listen to yesterdays webcast, most of this employees already knew.

The only question I have is did Quayle say all 763s have Polaris? If so that could be a very important clue.

The reason I'm asking is because there are 6 (1992/3 built) frames and 1 (2000 built) frame still with diamond seats. I can see UA perhaps retiring the 6 (1992/3) frames, they were supposed to be retired but were later spared. The singular frame built in 2000 was never slated for retirement it will be interesting to see what does with that frame.

Also on the 764s I'm not sure why UA is hesitant to pull the trigger on retiring those frames. We have 8 additional 78Xs slated for delivery in 2021, 7 or which were firmed up earlier this year before COVID. Between the 763s, 77E, and 788/9 UA can shuffle the fleet around to find the right aircraft to permanently take over all of our former 764 routes.
Last edited by jayunited on Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1612
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:30 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
splitterz wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter



Nothing groundbreaking. I'm kind of glad the 764 is leaving. I don't want to fly the old Diamond seats anymore!

If the 764 is dead, the death is caused by Door 2, which doesn't properly align with Polaris seats. DL loves them and has then retrofitted in their lie flats.

And for the rest of us, that don't fly regularly in J, any 767 loss is mourned in Y. By far the most comfortable widebodies. The only problem with the 764 in Y is the ratio of pax to lavs.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:33 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter


What new international routes were they looking at from Newark?
 
775899
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm

I wonder how UA is going to respond to the addition of 6x daily on ORD-DEN as well as the 4x daily DEN-COS by WN?
 
bwvilla
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:49 pm

jayunited wrote:
Singapore allows citizens to maintain dual citizenship until the age of 21 if that citizenship is acquired by birth in another country. Meaning if you are born here in the U.S. and move to Singapore and become a citizen of Singapore on your 21st birthday you have to make a decision to either to either retain your U.S. citizenship or give it up and keep your Singapore citizenship.


(off aviation topic apologies, but..) To be pedantic, if you have citizenship of another country and want to keep your Singapore citizenship, you have to make that decision and sign the oath of allegiance between your 21st and 22nd birthdays. At least that's what it says on my kids' citizenship certificates!
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:57 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter


What new international routes were they looking at from Newark?


He almost slipped but didn’t say. I would imagine more secondary Caribbean or any place that is open and has some demand.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:37 pm

And just a side note/clarification: UA flight deck crews do operate cargo-only ops into SIN but only as a turn. So no layovers in SIN as the turns are done with an augmented crew to allow for longer duty days in conjunction with sufficient rest periods.
 
airboss787
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:27 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Few notes from the webinar today with UA intl route planning director

- All 763, 78X, 77W have Polaris
- 788 completed by Summer 2021
- 789 40% completed by 2021, sub fleet for ULH routes including SFO-BLR/SIN, EWR-JNB
- 1 772 left w/o Polaris
- 764s will not come back anytime soon if they do come back
- 757s will exit the fleet as the XLRs enter
- New longhaul routes being looked at from EWR
- SFO, LAX, EWR all slowing recovery
- Seeing strong sun demand
- 772 on EWR-CUN this winter


What new international routes were they looking at from Newark?


He almost slipped but didn’t say. I would imagine more secondary Caribbean or any place that is open and has some demand.


But Caribbean is not long haul which you mentioned they were looking at. Long haul should Asia/Africa I would think.
Star Alliance Gold
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3327
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:16 pm

Also mentioned in the video was total confirmation that the 752PW fleet has been retired.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3658
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:31 pm

reported on Flying Together, all 175's are being retrofitted to seat 70 pax.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1612
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:37 am

CALMSP wrote:
reported on Flying Together, all 175's are being retrofitted to seat 70 pax.

I wonder why they would do that? Back in Feb, I would have thought it was a concession to pilots to allow them to order E2-175's, but I doubt UA has plans for new orders right now, unless they just want to use the downtime to prepare for eventual recovery. Someday they will need new Express planes to replace the 50 seaters that are leaving, CR7's that are becoming 50 seaters to fill those shoes, and so on. Again, in better times, I might have thought the MAX grounding and the desire to diversify from such dependence on one product family would increase the appeal of a new 100 seater.

As it is now, I don't really see the point of having more F seats than the 319, or more Y+ seats than Y, but there must be a reason for UA to spend money to remove seats.
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:55 am

cosyr wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
reported on Flying Together, all 175's are being retrofitted to seat 70 pax.

I wonder why they would do that?

From page 5 of the pilot contract:
1-C-1-h Effect of Furlough
If a Pilot on the Seniority List with an employment date prior to the date of signing of this Agreement is placed on furlough, the Company shall convert all 76-Seat Aircraft for operation as 70-Seat Aircraft. The number of such aircraft shall continue to be limited as though they were being operated as 76-Seat Aircraft. The Company may again commence operating such Aircraft as 76-Seat Aircraft effective on the date that the most junior Pilot protected by the first sentence of this Section 1-C-1-h is recalled from furlough.
 
United1
Posts: 4281
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:05 am

adamblang wrote:
cosyr wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
reported on Flying Together, all 175's are being retrofitted to seat 70 pax.

I wonder why they would do that?

From page 5 of the pilot contract:
1-C-1-h Effect of Furlough
If a Pilot on the Seniority List with an employment date prior to the date of signing of this Agreement is placed on furlough, the Company shall convert all 76-Seat Aircraft for operation as 70-Seat Aircraft. The number of such aircraft shall continue to be limited as though they were being operated as 76-Seat Aircraft. The Company may again commence operating such Aircraft as 76-Seat Aircraft effective on the date that the most junior Pilot protected by the first sentence of this Section 1-C-1-h is recalled from furlough.


UA and ALPA came to an agreement in September to prevent pilot furloughs. I have not seen the agreement but I bet there is some language in there requiring UA to convert the 76 seat RJs to 70 seaters.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:53 am

United1 wrote:
adamblang wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I wonder why they would do that?

From page 5 of the pilot contract:
1-C-1-h Effect of Furlough
If a Pilot on the Seniority List with an employment date prior to the date of signing of this Agreement is placed on furlough, the Company shall convert all 76-Seat Aircraft for operation as 70-Seat Aircraft. The number of such aircraft shall continue to be limited as though they were being operated as 76-Seat Aircraft. The Company may again commence operating such Aircraft as 76-Seat Aircraft effective on the date that the most junior Pilot protected by the first sentence of this Section 1-C-1-h is recalled from furlough.


UA and ALPA came to an agreement in September to prevent pilot furloughs. I have not seen the agreement but I bet there is some language in there requiring UA to convert the 76 seat RJs to 70 seaters.

There is.
 
redrooster3
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:22 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
Also mentioned in the video was total confirmation that the 752PW fleet has been retired.


They got good use out of those girls, 5302 almost made it to the 30 year mark. Looks like 6441 is now our oldest plane in the fleet?

It took them 6 months to announce the P&W 757s to be retired. Im curious as to the hold up
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3327
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:29 am

Yes:
1991 - 763
1993 - 320
1995 - 752RR
1995 - 772A
1997 - 772ER - 319
1998 - 73G - 738
2001 - 739A - 753
2008 - 739ER
2012 - 788
2014 - 789
2016 - 77W
2018 - 78X
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:56 am

UAX Update:

E145:
N29917 exited fleet, stored IGM

E145XR:
N11165 ferried YQB

CR2:
N494CA exited ROW in EvoBlu livery, entered service
N471CA entered ROW for paint
N433SW (ex-DL 2001 build) entered UAX service with Skywest (EvoBlu livery)
N466AW returned to flying with Air Wisconsin

E175:
The following units now flying in 70-seat Version 3 (12F/16E+/42Y).
103, 106, 107, 108, 110, 114, 134, 136, 138, 141, 148, 154, 156, 161, 167, 204, 205, 206, 207, 301, 304, 307, 309, 311, 313, 315, 328, 333, 338, 341, 343, 345, 349, 353, 357, 359, 740, 742, 747
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9653
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:35 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
It took them 6 months to announce the P&W 757s to be retired. Im curious as to the hold up


Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if these jets weren't tied up in some financing structure that needed to be renegotiated.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3515
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
It took them 6 months to announce the P&W 757s to be retired. Im curious as to the hold up


Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if these jets weren't tied up in some financing structure that needed to be renegotiated.


No those jets were owned by United Airlines they were not tied up in any financing structure.

Internally these aircraft have been showing as retired since May of this year.

I know this thread is really long but several insiders myself included stated multiple times the PW752s were showing retired. I'm not sure why it has taken this long for this to become public knowledge but people have been saying for months the PW752s were not coming back and in fact had been retired.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9653
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:16 pm

jayunited wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
It took them 6 months to announce the P&W 757s to be retired. Im curious as to the hold up


Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if these jets weren't tied up in some financing structure that needed to be renegotiated.


No those jets were owned by United Airlines they were not tied up in any financing structure.


N597UA, and several other PW 757s, were listed as collateral in the $2 Billion Term Loan Credit Agreement of March 2020.

I don't expect people to know this stuff off the top of their head but research of public records is prudent.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8669
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:23 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if these jets weren't tied up in some financing structure that needed to be renegotiated.


No those jets were owned by United Airlines they were not tied up in any financing structure.


N597UA, and several other PW 757s, were listed as collateral in the $2 Billion Term Loan Credit Agreement of March 2020.

I don't expect people to know this stuff off the top of their head but research of public records is prudent.


I think you are close to the mark. If they were actually retired (distinct from not coming back from storage, as small as that distinction may seem) then United needed to update the market sooner than 6 months later.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1612
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:00 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if these jets weren't tied up in some financing structure that needed to be renegotiated.


No those jets were owned by United Airlines they were not tied up in any financing structure.


N597UA, and several other PW 757s, were listed as collateral in the $2 Billion Term Loan Credit Agreement of March 2020.

I don't expect people to know this stuff off the top of their head but research of public records is prudent.

Do any of these frames have enough life left in them to be of value to FedEx or similar?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3515
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if these jets weren't tied up in some financing structure that needed to be renegotiated.


No those jets were owned by United Airlines they were not tied up in any financing structure.


N597UA, and several other PW 757s, were listed as collateral in the $2 Billion Term Loan Credit Agreement of March 2020.

I don't expect people to know this stuff off the top of their head but research of public records is prudent.



I know early on UA used gates, routes, and slots as collateral, I didn't see anything about 757s being used as collateral for that first $2 Billion dollar loan.
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3327
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:27 am

UA sold numerous older 752s to FedEx in the recent past. 6 of the 11 aircraft are 1997 or later build. They do have winglets, which FedEx doesn't like, but I guess they could be removed.
Personally I 'd rather have FedEx buy the 764s to replace their 40 year old MD10s - that is if UA plans to retire the 764s as they have different engines and pay rates are higher for pilots vs. the 763.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:48 pm

UAX Update:

E175:
60 more units now flying in 70-seat Version 3 (12F/16E+/42Y):
105, 109, 113, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 127, 128, 131, 133, 135, 139, 140, 143, 149, 150, 151, 152, 160, 163, 164, 166, 168, 200, 203, 208, 211, 302, 303, 312, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 329, 335, 336, 339, 342, 344, 347, 358, 721, 726, 727, 728, 730, 731, 733, 736, 741, 743, 748, 750

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