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gon2fly
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:57 pm

joeljack wrote:
I really don't understand why the pilots wouldn't want more seats to help United return to profitability faster to avoid more furloughs and pilot pay cuts? It's not any more work for them flying a 76 vs 70 plane. Heck, cram an extra row up to 80 seats to try and get the company back to making money and everybody wins!


Think big my friend. UA pilots are all about returning the company to profitability, but doing it with United metal and United pilots.....not hired hands. Removing seats was a component in the contract (when certain triggers occurred) prior to the pandemic. With the most recent revision to the contract, there were several scope provisions which were enacted. One is the removal of seats from the 76 seaters......and another is a cap on the number of hours that the RJ operators can operate in any given month (essentially cannot add up to more hours than mainline).

The gist of it is that if the company was selling 150 seats between two cities on any given day, it was done with two -175s. In order to sell the same number of seats, that market will now require an E-175......and a mainline Airbus, at a minimum. Now.....you find that you are offering roughly 195 seats/day in that market, and the mainline pilots are performing half of the flying, whereas they were previously flying 0% of it.

To answer your original question.....the intent is to drive more flying to mainline.....and away from the RJ operators.
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:28 pm

joeljack wrote:
ScorpioMC3 wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:

I might have missed it but what is the reason for removing those 6 seats?



The agreement the company struck with the pilots to avoid furloughs.


I really don't understand why the pilots wouldn't want more seats to help United return to profitability faster to avoid more furloughs and pilot pay cuts? It's not any more work for them flying a 76 vs 70 plane. Heck, cram an extra row up to 80 seats to try and get the company back to making money and everybody wins!


Given the same passenger demand, a 10% increase in seating capacity means a 10% reduction in scheduled flights. Think of all the pilot jobs that would be created if UA started flying everyone around in Cessnas!
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:02 am

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N17146 entered service with CommutAir
N11150 (ex-AX 2003 build) ferried IAH for induction with CommutAir

CR7:
N505MJ ferried TUS

E175SC:
N82366 entered service with Mesa 11Nov
N87367 entered service with Mesa 13Nov
 
VC10er
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Announces LAX-SJO/LIR/SAP, SFO-LIR, IAD-SDQ, DEN-BZE/LIR, CLE-CUN

Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:56 am

UALFAson wrote:
DoctorVenkman wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Makes a lot of sense to me. Add the leisure flights where there is demand.

It's really interesting to see so much demand to Mexico.


For anyone itching to go on an international vacation, Mexico/Central America is one of your only options from the US right now (unless you happen to have citizenship in another country). I could see tons of people booking Thanksgiving/Christmas trips to Mexico just to get away and have a change of scenery.


I will likely be one of those folks. South Florida (MIA/FLL) has remained a hotbed of COVID and I am too nervous to go there. The Florida Panhandle (PNS/ECP) has been hit by multiple hurricanes and the temperatures there will cool off soon enough. Hawaii sounds wonderful but is a long way to go from the East Coast and Midwest, especially if you're just doing a long weekend. It's anecdotal, but among my financially comfortable friends and co-workers, there is lots of pent-up travel demand for a real vacation. I predict Cancun will be packed with Americans during Thanksgiving/Christmas this year desperate for a change of scenery and warm weather.

Does Cozumel have enough hotel rooms for much increased service? I know Marriott only has 1 property there.


I have flown EWR to MIA 5 times since late July and while many hot spots are closed, my Miami friends and I found great (and safe) ways to be together and enjoy Miami. (Not that you should consider my experience as an example or a FACT, (I am just 1 person) but I adhered to all local safety standards and felt very comfortable flying United and I remain negative, I would go to Miami again tomorrow! Especially with great hotels and Airbnb at very reasonable costs.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3607
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:39 pm

joeljack wrote:
I really don't understand why the pilots wouldn't want more seats to help United return to profitability faster to avoid more furloughs and pilot pay cuts? It's not any more work for them flying a 76 vs 70 plane. Heck, cram an extra row up to 80 seats to try and get the company back to making money and everybody wins!



It really is a fair agreement in my opinion for both sides. Not to re-litigate the past but if you understand UA's past starting from 2000 forward then you will understand why UA pilots continue to stand firm on scope and believe it or not a lot of UA employees support the pilots on this, however the pilots are the only group that can push this issue. UA pilots also have a seat on the Board of Directors, they are the only work group to have representation at that level.

UA pilots are pushing this airline in the right direction and in my opinion it is only a matter of time before UA makes the deal for a 100 seater aircraft operated by mainline pilots. A lot of the road blocks that UA used in the past as reasoning for why a 100 seat aircraft didn't make financial sense have been slowly address over time. At all of our hubs except one UA employees are handling both the above the wing and below the wing work for all UAX flights. (This alone has resulted in a lot more mainline ground jobs at our hubs for but C.S. and ramp.) United Ground Express continues its rollout at smaller line stations and UAX stations replacing either American Eagle,Skywest or DGS workers.

The pilots contract already has a pay rate for the C series which is now the A220, the only problem now is the pandemic and UA's high debt burden. The last remaining hurdle is making sure management understands the pilots are not giving in on scope. I don't fault UA management for trying again just look at UA's past where ALPA made the mistake that opened the flood gates for UAX. Back to the point a 1st year mainline UAL first officer pay scale on an A220 would be $60.92, a 12 year top scale first officer pay per hour would be $123.95. I'm not sure what all the UAX airlines first officers pay scales are but I'm 100% sure a first year first officer at UA isn't making $60.92 an hour. However with that being said it is no secret to insiders like myself we've heard the rumors in the past that United can make the math work but management wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want to see if the pilots are willing to budge, they are not but of course Kirby had to try or test the pilots resolve when he arrived at UA. There were a lot of factors at play a lot of behind the scenes moves that stopped UA from ordering the A220 a few years back but the pilots came close to achieving their goal.

The pilots have a plan and they have been slowly pushing UA in the direction of reducing UAX in favor of more mainline flying. Although the pandemic and now our debt will set UA back a few years, for an insider like myself I've seen the slow but steady progress the pilots have made in pushing UA in this direction and I think by 2026 or 2027 the A220 (100 seater) will be in UA's fleet. What this really comes down to is if you give United an inch they will take a mile and with the pilots being so close to achieving their goals you simply don't give up now just because we are in a pandemic. Doing so could set you back years and cause more damage and delays than the pandemic has caused. At the end of the day the pilots know a 100 seater is coming to UA it is just a matter of time and they want mainline pilots flying those jets not UAX pilots, and they will not give UA an inch on scope not even on the 76 seaters.

Think about the big picture, the 100 seater is what they are fighting for and why they are holding their ground.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:52 pm

I know that EWR-CPT is off the table in December. With South Africa reopening, do you think they will resume it in January?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... visit/amp/
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:47 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
I know that EWR-CPT is off the table in December. With South Africa reopening, do you think they will resume it in January?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... visit/amp/


Interesting, hoping we can get it as my last trip I took before shutdown was Cape Town back in Feb - would love to do so again.

Anecdotally believe it did quite well last year and per that post the restrictions don't seem too rough....
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:07 am

jayunited wrote:
joeljack wrote:
I really don't understand why the pilots wouldn't want more seats to help United return to profitability faster to avoid more furloughs and pilot pay cuts? It's not any more work for them flying a 76 vs 70 plane. Heck, cram an extra row up to 80 seats to try and get the company back to making money and everybody wins!



It really is a fair agreement in my opinion for both sides. Not to re-litigate the past but if you understand UA's past starting from 2000 forward then you will understand why UA pilots continue to stand firm on scope and believe it or not a lot of UA employees support the pilots on this, however the pilots are the only group that can push this issue. UA pilots also have a seat on the Board of Directors, they are the only work group to have representation at that level.

UA pilots are pushing this airline in the right direction and in my opinion it is only a matter of time before UA makes the deal for a 100 seater aircraft operated by mainline pilots. A lot of the road blocks that UA used in the past as reasoning for why a 100 seat aircraft didn't make financial sense have been slowly address over time. At all of our hubs except one UA employees are handling both the above the wing and below the wing work for all UAX flights. (This alone has resulted in a lot more mainline ground jobs at our hubs for but C.S. and ramp.) United Ground Express continues its rollout at smaller line stations and UAX stations replacing either American Eagle,Skywest or DGS workers.

The pilots contract already has a pay rate for the C series which is now the A220, the only problem now is the pandemic and UA's high debt burden. The last remaining hurdle is making sure management understands the pilots are not giving in on scope. I don't fault UA management for trying again just look at UA's past where ALPA made the mistake that opened the flood gates for UAX. Back to the point a 1st year mainline UAL first officer pay scale on an A220 would be $60.92, a 12 year top scale first officer pay per hour would be $123.95. I'm not sure what all the UAX airlines first officers pay scales are but I'm 100% sure a first year first officer at UA isn't making $60.92 an hour. However with that being said it is no secret to insiders like myself we've heard the rumors in the past that United can make the math work but management wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want to see if the pilots are willing to budge, they are not but of course Kirby had to try or test the pilots resolve when he arrived at UA. There were a lot of factors at play a lot of behind the scenes moves that stopped UA from ordering the A220 a few years back but the pilots came close to achieving their goal.

The pilots have a plan and they have been slowly pushing UA in the direction of reducing UAX in favor of more mainline flying. Although the pandemic and now our debt will set UA back a few years, for an insider like myself I've seen the slow but steady progress the pilots have made in pushing UA in this direction and I think by 2026 or 2027 the A220 (100 seater) will be in UA's fleet. What this really comes down to is if you give United an inch they will take a mile and with the pilots being so close to achieving their goals you simply don't give up now just because we are in a pandemic. Doing so could set you back years and cause more damage and delays than the pandemic has caused. At the end of the day the pilots know a 100 seater is coming to UA it is just a matter of time and they want mainline pilots flying those jets not UAX pilots, and they will not give UA an inch on scope not even on the 76 seaters.

Think about the big picture, the 100 seater is what they are fighting for and why they are holding their ground.


Jay,

For the sake of accuracy.

The current UPA pay scale for the CS100/A220 FO is $91.31 for year 1 (all aircraft, regardless of type, year 1 pay the same) and $145.76 for 12th year pay. For comparison Delta’s rates are $92/$180.

Anything above 76 seats is required to be flown by mainline. Nothing for ALPA to negotiate regarding the 100 seaters. ALPA would like to get the 76 seaters at mainline as well. That would eliminate a lot of Scope restrictions currently in effect, ie the 175E2 could be flown as the weight limit would no longer be a factor.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:25 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I know that EWR-CPT is off the table in December. With South Africa reopening, do you think they will resume it in January?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... visit/amp/


Interesting, hoping we can get it as my last trip I took before shutdown was Cape Town back in Feb - would love to do so again.

Anecdotally believe it did quite well last year and per that post the restrictions don't seem too rough....


I can't see it operating, there's too much uncertainty regarding restrictions and/or pax not willing to travel.
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:43 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I know that EWR-CPT is off the table in December. With South Africa reopening, do you think they will resume it in January?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... visit/amp/


Interesting, hoping we can get it as my last trip I took before shutdown was Cape Town back in Feb - would love to do so again.

Anecdotally believe it did quite well last year and per that post the restrictions don't seem too rough....


I tweeted United and they replied that they restart EWR-CPT on Jan 6, 2021

https://ibb.co/n8wQ9D0
 
jayunited
Posts: 3607
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:45 am

EssentialBusDC wrote:
Jay,

For the sake of accuracy.

The current UPA pay scale for the CS100/A220 FO is $91.31 for year 1 (all aircraft, regardless of type, year 1 pay the same) and $145.76 for 12th year pay. For comparison Delta’s rates are $92/$180.

Anything above 76 seats is required to be flown by mainline. Nothing for ALPA to negotiate regarding the 100 seaters. ALPA would like to get the 76 seaters at mainline as well. That would eliminate a lot of Scope restrictions currently in effect, ie the 175E2 could be flown as the weight limit would no longer be a factor.



My apologies I just went back and noticed that I was using the 2014 pilot pay scale not the 2020 pay scale. I overlooked the date at the top of the page.
 
AA94
Posts: 786
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:33 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I know that EWR-CPT is off the table in December. With South Africa reopening, do you think they will resume it in January?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... visit/amp/


Interesting, hoping we can get it as my last trip I took before shutdown was Cape Town back in Feb - would love to do so again.

Anecdotally believe it did quite well last year and per that post the restrictions don't seem too rough....


I tweeted United and they replied that they restart EWR-CPT on Jan 6, 2021

https://ibb.co/n8wQ9D0


The Jan 2021 schedule hasn't gotten the COVID chop yet, so we're still selling the full pre-COVID schedule. We'll know in a few weeks whether it will survive the schedule trim. It did quite well last year, and given South Africa will be one of the few countries open to Americans, I think there's a decent chance it comes back.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1849
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:39 am

UA board member Sito Pantoja is the Union Rep for the IAM (Ramp and passenger service Union) glad he is there


jayunited wrote:
It really is a fair agreement in my opinion for both sides. Not to re-litigate the past but if you understand UA's past starting from 2000 forward then you will understand why UA pilots continue to stand firm on scope and believe it or not a lot of UA employees support the pilots on this, however the pilots are the only group that can push this issue. UA pilots also have a seat on the Board of Directors, they are the only work group to have representation at that level.

UA pilots are pushing this airline in the right direction and in my opinion it is only a matter of time before UA makes the deal for a 100 seater aircraft operated by mainline pilots. A lot of the road blocks that UA used in the past as reasoning for why a 100 seat aircraft didn't make financial sense have been slowly address over time. At all of our hubs except one UA employees are handling both the above the wing and below the wing work for all UAX flights. (This alone has resulted in a lot more mainline ground jobs at our hubs for but C.S. and ramp.) United Ground Express continues its rollout at smaller line stations and UAX stations replacing either American Eagle,Skywest or DGS workers.

The pilots contract already has a pay rate for the C series which is now the A220, the only problem now is the pandemic and UA's high debt burden. The last remaining hurdle is making sure management understands the pilots are not giving in on scope. I don't fault UA management for trying again just look at UA's past where ALPA made the mistake that opened the flood gates for UAX. Back to the point a 1st year mainline UAL first officer pay scale on an A220 would be $60.92, a 12 year top scale first officer pay per hour would be $123.95. I'm not sure what all the UAX airlines first officers pay scales are but I'm 100% sure a first year first officer at UA isn't making $60.92 an hour. However with that being said it is no secret to insiders like myself we've heard the rumors in the past that United can make the math work but management wants to have its cake and eat it too. They want to see if the pilots are willing to budge, they are not but of course Kirby had to try or test the pilots resolve when he arrived at UA. There were a lot of factors at play a lot of behind the scenes moves that stopped UA from ordering the A220 a few years back but the pilots came close to achieving their goal.

The pilots have a plan and they have been slowly pushing UA in the direction of reducing UAX in favor of more mainline flying. Although the pandemic and now our debt will set UA back a few years, for an insider like myself I've seen the slow but steady progress the pilots have made in pushing UA in this direction and I think by 2026 or 2027 the A220 (100 seater) will be in UA's fleet. What this really comes down to is if you give United an inch they will take a mile and with the pilots being so close to achieving their goals you simply don't give up now just because we are in a pandemic. Doing so could set you back years and cause more damage and delays than the pandemic has caused. At the end of the day the pilots know a 100 seater is coming to UA it is just a matter of time and they want mainline pilots flying those jets not UAX pilots, and they will not give UA an inch on scope not even on the 76 seaters.

Think about the big picture, the 100 seater is what they are fighting for and why they are holding their ground.
 
audidudi
Posts: 3197
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:10 pm

The next ex-CZ A319, B-2296/N880UA, which has been stored at ROW since 27 May, is ferrying from ROW>SFO tomorrow:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N880UA
 
kd9gy
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:48 pm

A couple hours later than planned, but N880UA (UA2729) just left Roswell for SFO at 11:40 MST.
 
x1234
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:16 pm

I have to say JNB is more important than CPT but UA should resume both. JNB is the business centre of Africa as a whole with the northern part of Africa being managed from Europe/Dubai and the Southern part JNB.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:16 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I know that EWR-CPT is off the table in December. With South Africa reopening, do you think they will resume it in January?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... visit/amp/


Interesting, hoping we can get it as my last trip I took before shutdown was Cape Town back in Feb - would love to do so again.

Anecdotally believe it did quite well last year and per that post the restrictions don't seem too rough....


I tweeted United and they replied that they restart EWR-CPT on Jan 6, 2021

https://ibb.co/n8wQ9D0


thats what they are saying now, but they've zeroed it out internally. Its not going to operate. Bookings are in the process of being rebooked/refunded as its down to only 47 current reservations.
 
codc10
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:21 pm

Suspending CPT for a season makes complete sense. Even with ZA reopening, the route served a fairly well-defined niche: high-end leisure travel at the USA point of sale, and I don’t think that clientele will be resuming its travel habits in W20/21... hopefully next year?

JNB, on the other hand, has a larger business traffic component and is more “strategic”, especially in view of SAA’s plight.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:25 am

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N11150 entered service with CommutAir

CR7:
N509MJ parked at IAD
N514MJ parked at IAD
N515MJ parked at IAD
N518LR parked at IAD

E175SC:
N87368 entered service with Mesa 16Nov
N85369 entered service with Mesa 16Nov
N85370 entered service with Mesa 16Nov
 
Delta350
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:55 pm

Are any MAXes scheduled to exit storage this week?
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:44 pm

Delta350 wrote:
Are any MAXes scheduled to exit storage this week?

I'm sorry I don't have the source, but I read somewhere this morning that AA is the only airline (in the US) planning to fly the Max by year end. UA and WN said sometime next year. Now that Boeing can start delivering, is it possible that it would be easier for UA to get new ones up in the air vs the parked ones already delivered? I heard there was a lot that airlines would need to do to make the previously delivered ones match the new requirements, but maybe UA has been doing those things along the way, while they were on the ground?
 
United1
Posts: 4298
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:56 pm

cosyr wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
Are any MAXes scheduled to exit storage this week?

I'm sorry I don't have the source, but I read somewhere this morning that AA is the only airline (in the US) planning to fly the Max by year end. UA and WN said sometime next year. Now that Boeing can start delivering, is it possible that it would be easier for UA to get new ones up in the air vs the parked ones already delivered? I heard there was a lot that airlines would need to do to make the previously delivered ones match the new requirements, but maybe UA has been doing those things along the way, while they were on the ground?


UA doesn't plan on returning the MAX to passenger service until Q1 (or at the latest Q2) of 2021. They have been ferrying frames between storage in GYR and MCO for maintenance /upgrades ect over the last few months. Boeing does have a bunch of 39Ms basically ready for delivery so it would not surprise me to see a few of those start UAs induction process.
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:15 pm

cosyr wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
Are any MAXes scheduled to exit storage this week?

I'm sorry I don't have the source, but I read somewhere this morning that AA is the only airline (in the US) planning to fly the Max by year end. UA and WN said sometime next year. Now that Boeing can start delivering, is it possible that it would be easier for UA to get new ones up in the air vs the parked ones already delivered? I heard there was a lot that airlines would need to do to make the previously delivered ones match the new requirements, but maybe UA has been doing those things along the way, while they were on the ground?

I believe I read it on CNN. It said Spring 2021. They need time to fix existing aircraft, train crews (including sim time, which is more time consuming and expensive than the program had anticipated), and presumably to scrape away the word "MAX" and hope people might not notice.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:42 pm

When will the MAX-10’s start to show up? I guess I’m a bit confused about their role with the new (yet to be seen lie flat seats) and the 50 A321XLR?

Has the MAX-10 even started production?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4823
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:52 pm

VC10er wrote:
When will the MAX-10’s start to show up? I guess I’m a bit confused about their role with the new (yet to be seen lie flat seats) and the 50 A321XLR?

Has the MAX-10 even started production?


Seems like the MAX will be the domestic 757 ps "replacement" while the 321 will be the international 757 replacement.

I know that is an extremely simple breakdown, and there are likely exceptions to that - but that is how I understand it.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:53 pm

 
wjcandee
Posts: 11194
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:38 pm

You all may know this, but UA is pulling parked 767-300s out of the desert, sending them to Airborne Maintenance and Engineering Services (AMES) at ILN, and putting them back into service. Pre-Covid, UA had established a one-at-a-time line of heavy checks for the 767-300s at AMES, which stopped during Covid. Now apparently they are back.

The post-Covid-parked ships coming to ILN that I noticed so far are:

N670UA (at ILN 9/21-11/22/20) (was parked IAH)
N667UA (at ILN since 9/24) (was parked IAH)
N677UA (at ILN since 10/9) (was parked IAH)
N660UA (at ILN 10/9-11/11) (was parked IAH)
N648UA (at ILN since 11/6) (was parked ROW, stopped at GYR for 2 hours en route to ILN)
N642UA (en route to ILN from ROW as I type this on 11/18/20).
 
jayunited
Posts: 3607
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:31 pm

wjcandee wrote:
You all may know this, but UA is pulling parked 767-300s out of the desert, sending them to Airborne Maintenance and Engineering Services (AMES) at ILN, and putting them back into service. Pre-Covid, UA had established a one-at-a-time line of heavy checks for the 767-300s at AMES, which stopped during Covid. Now apparently they are back.

The post-Covid-parked ships coming to ILN that I noticed so far are:

N670UA (at ILN 9/21-11/22/20) (was parked IAH)
N667UA (at ILN since 9/24) (was parked IAH)
N677UA (at ILN since 10/9) (was parked IAH)
N660UA (at ILN 10/9-11/11) (was parked IAH)
N648UA (at ILN since 11/6) (was parked ROW, stopped at GYR for 2 hours en route to ILN)
N642UA (en route to ILN from ROW as I type this on 11/18/20).



Just to help people out a bit more;

N642UA, N648UA, and N660UA are all in standard Polaris configuration
N670UA, N667UA, and N677UA all have the high J configuration
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:20 am

VC10er wrote:
When will the MAX-10’s start to show up? I guess I’m a bit confused about their role with the new (yet to be seen lie flat seats) and the 50 A321XLR?

Has the MAX-10 even started production?


The first airframe rolled out of the factory almost a year ago. November 22, 2019.

It’s certification is going to take a while as Boeing agreed to include additional sensors/ display information per EASA request. So maybe 2022/2023?

https://onemileatatime.com/boeing-737-m ... egulators/
 
UA857
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:55 am

Can a 77E fly EWR-OGG with a full payload?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3607
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:01 am

UA857 wrote:
Can a 77E fly EWR-OGG with a full payload?


A 77E can handle EWR-OGG with a full payload.

EWR-OGG is only 4261 nautical miles well within range of UA's 77Es.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2001
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:02 am

How is thanksgiving shaping up for UA?
 
UA857
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:14 am

jayunited wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Can a 77E fly EWR-OGG with a full payload?


A 77E can handle EWR-OGG with a full payload.

EWR-OGG is only 4261 nautical miles well within range of UA's 77Es.

Doesn't OGG have a short runway?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10453
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:44 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
When will the MAX-10’s start to show up? I guess I’m a bit confused about their role with the new (yet to be seen lie flat seats) and the 50 A321XLR?

Has the MAX-10 even started production?


Seems like the MAX will be the domestic 757 ps "replacement" while the 321 will be the international 757 replacement.

I know that is an extremely simple breakdown, and there are likely exceptions to that - but that is how I understand it.


Has anybody done a deep dive to project realistic, weather-aware range for the MAX 10 in 22J and whatever Y+ and Y? EWR-DUB/SNN/EDI, or can they make it to the Continent (and back in winter)?
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1476
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:07 am

UA857 wrote:
Can a 77E fly EWR-OGG with a full payload?


I’m not sure if you were just asking a hypothetical question, but EWR-OGG is planned for the 767 not 777.
 
UA857
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:12 am

Is UA going to retire the 764 as the 764 does not have Polaris and is redundant in the fleet? If so could UA use the 7 78Js they have on order as a 764 replacement?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3607
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:39 am

UA857 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Can a 77E fly EWR-OGG with a full payload?


A 77E can handle EWR-OGG with a full payload.

EWR-OGG is only 4261 nautical miles well within range of UA's 77Es.

Doesn't OGG have a short runway?


Yes it does but you asked if a 77E could handle EWR-OGG, not if a fully loaded 77E could handle OGG-EWR.

But none of it really matters because UA will use a standard 763 when EWR-OGG-EWR launches next spring.
 
UA857
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:04 am

jayunited wrote:
UA857 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

A 77E can handle EWR-OGG with a full payload.

EWR-OGG is only 4261 nautical miles well within range of UA's 77Es.

Doesn't OGG have a short runway?


Yes it does but you asked if a 77E could handle EWR-OGG, not if a fully loaded 77E could handle OGG-EWR.

But none of it really matters because UA will use a standard 763 when EWR-OGG-EWR launches next spring.


Then can a 77E do OGG-EWR with a full payload even though OGG has a short runway?
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:14 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
When will the MAX-10’s start to show up? I guess I’m a bit confused about their role with the new (yet to be seen lie flat seats) and the 50 A321XLR?

Has the MAX-10 even started production?


Seems like the MAX will be the domestic 757 ps "replacement" while the 321 will be the international 757 replacement.

I know that is an extremely simple breakdown, and there are likely exceptions to that - but that is how I understand it.


Has anybody done a deep dive to project realistic, weather-aware range for the MAX 10 in 22J and whatever Y+ and Y? EWR-DUB/SNN/EDI, or can they make it to the Continent (and back in winter)?


Boeing lists the -10 range (with one auxiliary tank) at 3300nm. EWR-EDI is 2839nm great circle route. So winter westbound will be tight with winds etc.

Why 22J?

I doubt you will see the MAX10 going to Europe. DUB is a 787 and has been for a while. The 757 will do other close in routes till the 321’s start arriving in 2024. The Max 10 won’t be here till 2022 at the earliest.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:05 am

EssentialBusDC wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

Seems like the MAX will be the domestic 757 ps "replacement" while the 321 will be the international 757 replacement.

I know that is an extremely simple breakdown, and there are likely exceptions to that - but that is how I understand it.


Has anybody done a deep dive to project realistic, weather-aware range for the MAX 10 in 22J and whatever Y+ and Y? EWR-DUB/SNN/EDI, or can they make it to the Continent (and back in winter)?


Boeing lists the -10 range (with one auxiliary tank) at 3300nm. EWR-EDI is 2839nm great circle route. So winter westbound will be tight with winds etc.

Why 22J?

I doubt you will see the MAX10 going to Europe. DUB is a 787 and has been for a while. The 757 will do other close in routes till the 321’s start arriving in 2024. The Max 10 won’t be here till 2022 at the earliest.


In my opinion, we’ll see the Max-10 fleet working transcon, west coast to Hawaii, and heavy Caribbean destinations from EWR, IAD, and IAH. The 757 is clearly on its last legs, UA has almost brand new 737-800SFP aircraft for SJO, LIR, BOG, etc. The 900ER’s and the Max-9 can backfill where needed.

I believe those A321XLR’s will be strictly EWR, IAD, and ORD
 
VC10er
Posts: 4327
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:51 am

I guess the big question for me is what the lie flat design will be? Will it be tight as the 73MAX-10 is shorter than the 757, and I don’t know how much difference the width is between the 737MAX and a 757.

What has me most concerned is that AA and B6 (mint) seem to be quite positive, will UA’s lie flat be at par with their transcontinental competition or a few degrees more innovative?

With both EWR & JFK, UA could be poised (especially by adding BOS, IAH and perhaps Florida from the west coast) UA could have serious bragging rights regarding lie flat seat on very long domestic flights!
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:24 pm

JFKalumni wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Has anybody done a deep dive to project realistic, weather-aware range for the MAX 10 in 22J and whatever Y+ and Y? EWR-DUB/SNN/EDI, or can they make it to the Continent (and back in winter)?


Boeing lists the -10 range (with one auxiliary tank) at 3300nm. EWR-EDI is 2839nm great circle route. So winter westbound will be tight with winds etc.

Why 22J?

I doubt you will see the MAX10 going to Europe. DUB is a 787 and has been for a while. The 757 will do other close in routes till the 321’s start arriving in 2024. The Max 10 won’t be here till 2022 at the earliest.


In my opinion, we’ll see the Max-10 fleet working transcon, west coast to Hawaii, and heavy Caribbean destinations from EWR, IAD, and IAH. The 757 is clearly on its last legs, UA has almost brand new 737-800SFP aircraft for SJO, LIR, BOG, etc. The 900ER’s and the Max-9 can backfill where needed.

I believe those A321XLR’s will be strictly EWR, IAD, and ORD

Out of curiosity, I'm sure MAX10's will play a role, but does UA have anything lined up for 753 replacement? I have heard that airlines have been very happy with those frames, but once the 752's are gone, they will be a smaller odd ball fleet, and I could see less justification for them. The A321 can replace a 752, and we've talked a lot about 767 replacement, but the 753 fits a particular type of mission at UA very well.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3607
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:11 pm

JFKalumni wrote:

In my opinion, we’ll see the Max-10 fleet working transcon, west coast to Hawaii, and heavy Caribbean destinations from EWR, IAD, and IAH. The 757 is clearly on its last legs, UA has almost brand new 737-800SFP aircraft for SJO, LIR, BOG, etc. The 900ER’s and the Max-9 can backfill where needed.

I believe those A321XLR’s will be strictly EWR, IAD, and ORD


In a recent webinar hosted by TPG late last month UA is on the record saying the RR powered 752s will remain in the fleet until the A321XLRs deliveries begin and those deliveries won't start until the second half of 2024. Depending on how aggressive (or not) the delivery schedule is some of UA's RR powered 752s could still be in the fleet come 2026.

As far as the MAX 10s, UA has confirmed there will be 2 different configuration, I think you are correct the standard configuration (which I'm assuming will not have lie flat seats) will be used on west Coast - Hawaii routes, Caribbean routes from ORD, IAD, IAH some EWR, and hub to hub routes from our mid continent hubs to MCO from all of our hubs except LAX and SFO (in my opinion). The premium configured MAX 10s which will have lie flat seats (UA still has not confirmed if PE will be on those aircraft) will operate EWR-SFO/LAX/SEA. To keep pace with JetBlue UA might place a singular (1x daily) premium heavy MAX 10 on EWR-SAN/LAS this would be in addition to non premium narrowbodies on these routes. Also because B6 utilizes MINT on some of their Caribbean routes out of the Northeast I could see UA placing a premium heavy MAX 10 on certain higher end caribbean routes out of EWR like AUA, UVF and LIR. Out of IAD I can see IAD-SFO/LAX/SEA, from BOS there would be BOS-SFO/LAX and from JFK you would have JFK-SFO/LAX. Again to keep pace with other airlines I think UA would place a premium heavy MAX 10 on SFO-MCO, LAX-MCO, and perhaps SFO-FLL.

UA ordered 100 MAX 10s pre-pandemic the plan was half and half, 50 frames would be in standard configuration and 50 frames would have lie flat seats. I can't tell you if that is still the plan going forward but I do know pre-pandemic UA was still working on United Coast. After the media got wind of this in 2017 UA went silent on this project, the MAX grounding and now MAX 10 EIS delay has pushed the project back even further. Prior to the pandemic UA was working on United Coast as a way to take on JetBlue's MINT product which really has change domestic travel on many of these long coast to coast routes.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:51 pm

cosyr wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:
EssentialBusDC wrote:

Boeing lists the -10 range (with one auxiliary tank) at 3300nm. EWR-EDI is 2839nm great circle route. So winter westbound will be tight with winds etc.

Why 22J?

I doubt you will see the MAX10 going to Europe. DUB is a 787 and has been for a while. The 757 will do other close in routes till the 321’s start arriving in 2024. The Max 10 won’t be here till 2022 at the earliest.


In my opinion, we’ll see the Max-10 fleet working transcon, west coast to Hawaii, and heavy Caribbean destinations from EWR, IAD, and IAH. The 757 is clearly on its last legs, UA has almost brand new 737-800SFP aircraft for SJO, LIR, BOG, etc. The 900ER’s and the Max-9 can backfill where needed.

I believe those A321XLR’s will be strictly EWR, IAD, and ORD

Out of curiosity, I'm sure MAX10's will play a role, but does UA have anything lined up for 753 replacement? I have heard that airlines have been very happy with those frames, but once the 752's are gone, they will be a smaller odd ball fleet, and I could see less justification for them. The A321 can replace a 752, and we've talked a lot about 767 replacement, but the 753 fits a particular type of mission at UA very well.

Currently there are no direct replacements being built by Boeing or Airbus for the 757-300. The oldest 757-300 was delivered in 2002, so depending on being the oddball, they have close to decade of life left in them. United could go back to cattle car 767’s like they used to have before the merger, but you still have the age of 767’s to deal with. The youngest 767-300’s are of similar vintage.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:53 pm

jayunited wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:

In my opinion, we’ll see the Max-10 fleet working transcon, west coast to Hawaii, and heavy Caribbean destinations from EWR, IAD, and IAH. The 757 is clearly on its last legs, UA has almost brand new 737-800SFP aircraft for SJO, LIR, BOG, etc. The 900ER’s and the Max-9 can backfill where needed.

I believe those A321XLR’s will be strictly EWR, IAD, and ORD


In a recent webinar hosted by TPG late last month UA is on the record saying the RR powered 752s will remain in the fleet until the A321XLRs deliveries begin and those deliveries won't start until the second half of 2024. Depending on how aggressive (or not) the delivery schedule is some of UA's RR powered 752s could still be in the fleet come 2026.

As far as the MAX 10s, UA has confirmed there will be 2 different configuration, I think you are correct the standard configuration (which I'm assuming will not have lie flat seats) will be used on west Coast - Hawaii routes, Caribbean routes from ORD, IAD, IAH some EWR, and hub to hub routes from our mid continent hubs to MCO from all of our hubs except LAX and SFO (in my opinion). The premium configured MAX 10s which will have lie flat seats (UA still has not confirmed if PE will be on those aircraft) will operate EWR-SFO/LAX/SEA. To keep pace with JetBlue UA might place a singular (1x daily) premium heavy MAX 10 on EWR-SAN/LAS this would be in addition to non premium narrowbodies on these routes. Also because B6 utilizes MINT on some of their Caribbean routes out of the Northeast I could see UA placing a premium heavy MAX 10 on certain higher end caribbean routes out of EWR like AUA, UVF and LIR. Out of IAD I can see IAD-SFO/LAX/SEA, from BOS there would be BOS-SFO/LAX and from JFK you would have JFK-SFO/LAX. Again to keep pace with other airlines I think UA would place a premium heavy MAX 10 on SFO-MCO, LAX-MCO, and perhaps SFO-FLL.

UA ordered 100 MAX 10s pre-pandemic the plan was half and half, 50 frames would be in standard configuration and 50 frames would have lie flat seats. I can't tell you if that is still the plan going forward but I do know pre-pandemic UA was still working on United Coast. After the media got wind of this in 2017 UA went silent on this project, the MAX grounding and now MAX 10 EIS delay has pushed the project back even further. Prior to the pandemic UA was working on United Coast as a way to take on JetBlue's MINT product which really has change domestic travel on many of these long coast to coast routes.


You’re absolutely right.

I would also assign these routes to the premium Max-10
EWR-SJU,
EWR-CUN
EWR-FLL
 
UA857
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:13 am

Should UA install Polaris and Premium Plus on the MAX 10s as seen on the 763, 77E, 77W, and 788/789/78J?
 
airplanedriver6
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:17 am

VC10er wrote:
...and I don’t know how much difference the width is between the 737MAX and a 757.

FWIW, the 737 and 757 have the same fuselage width. However, the 737 starts to taper to a narrower width further aft on the fuselage than the 757. This is why the overhead bins on the 737 in rows 1 and 2 won't accept a standard 22" carry-on suitcase unless they are placed sideways.

The leaked seat diagram, if accurate, for UAL's proposed MAX-10 config showed a Polaris style F cabin with isle access at every seat. And yes, the front of the cabin had modifications to account for the narrowed fuselage.

Image

https://pointmetotheplane.boardingarea. ... -10-fleet/
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4470
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:18 am

JFKalumni wrote:
jayunited wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:

In my opinion, we’ll see the Max-10 fleet working transcon, west coast to Hawaii, and heavy Caribbean destinations from EWR, IAD, and IAH. The 757 is clearly on its last legs, UA has almost brand new 737-800SFP aircraft for SJO, LIR, BOG, etc. The 900ER’s and the Max-9 can backfill where needed.

I believe those A321XLR’s will be strictly EWR, IAD, and ORD


In a recent webinar hosted by TPG late last month UA is on the record saying the RR powered 752s will remain in the fleet until the A321XLRs deliveries begin and those deliveries won't start until the second half of 2024. Depending on how aggressive (or not) the delivery schedule is some of UA's RR powered 752s could still be in the fleet come 2026.

As far as the MAX 10s, UA has confirmed there will be 2 different configuration, I think you are correct the standard configuration (which I'm assuming will not have lie flat seats) will be used on west Coast - Hawaii routes, Caribbean routes from ORD, IAD, IAH some EWR, and hub to hub routes from our mid continent hubs to MCO from all of our hubs except LAX and SFO (in my opinion). The premium configured MAX 10s which will have lie flat seats (UA still has not confirmed if PE will be on those aircraft) will operate EWR-SFO/LAX/SEA. To keep pace with JetBlue UA might place a singular (1x daily) premium heavy MAX 10 on EWR-SAN/LAS this would be in addition to non premium narrowbodies on these routes. Also because B6 utilizes MINT on some of their Caribbean routes out of the Northeast I could see UA placing a premium heavy MAX 10 on certain higher end caribbean routes out of EWR like AUA, UVF and LIR. Out of IAD I can see IAD-SFO/LAX/SEA, from BOS there would be BOS-SFO/LAX and from JFK you would have JFK-SFO/LAX. Again to keep pace with other airlines I think UA would place a premium heavy MAX 10 on SFO-MCO, LAX-MCO, and perhaps SFO-FLL.

UA ordered 100 MAX 10s pre-pandemic the plan was half and half, 50 frames would be in standard configuration and 50 frames would have lie flat seats. I can't tell you if that is still the plan going forward but I do know pre-pandemic UA was still working on United Coast. After the media got wind of this in 2017 UA went silent on this project, the MAX grounding and now MAX 10 EIS delay has pushed the project back even further. Prior to the pandemic UA was working on United Coast as a way to take on JetBlue's MINT product which really has change domestic travel on many of these long coast to coast routes.


You’re absolutely right.

I would also assign these routes to the premium Max-10
EWR-SJU,
EWR-CUN
EWR-FLL

Those are the last routes that need premium max10s
 
GoSharks
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:29 am

UA857 wrote:
Should UA install Polaris and Premium Plus on the MAX 10s as seen on the 763, 77E, 77W, and 788/789/78J?

The staggered configuration of the Polaris seat is too narrow for a narrowbody. It is significantly less than 3Y seats in width.

Check out the video at this roughly 55s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnu6CkTHC_U&t=55

An angled/straight set of Polaris looks like it is only 2.5 Y seats or so wide.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:23 am

drerx7 wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:
jayunited wrote:

In a recent webinar hosted by TPG late last month UA is on the record saying the RR powered 752s will remain in the fleet until the A321XLRs deliveries begin and those deliveries won't start until the second half of 2024. Depending on how aggressive (or not) the delivery schedule is some of UA's RR powered 752s could still be in the fleet come 2026.

As far as the MAX 10s, UA has confirmed there will be 2 different configuration, I think you are correct the standard configuration (which I'm assuming will not have lie flat seats) will be used on west Coast - Hawaii routes, Caribbean routes from ORD, IAD, IAH some EWR, and hub to hub routes from our mid continent hubs to MCO from all of our hubs except LAX and SFO (in my opinion). The premium configured MAX 10s which will have lie flat seats (UA still has not confirmed if PE will be on those aircraft) will operate EWR-SFO/LAX/SEA. To keep pace with JetBlue UA might place a singular (1x daily) premium heavy MAX 10 on EWR-SAN/LAS this would be in addition to non premium narrowbodies on these routes. Also because B6 utilizes MINT on some of their Caribbean routes out of the Northeast I could see UA placing a premium heavy MAX 10 on certain higher end caribbean routes out of EWR like AUA, UVF and LIR. Out of IAD I can see IAD-SFO/LAX/SEA, from BOS there would be BOS-SFO/LAX and from JFK you would have JFK-SFO/LAX. Again to keep pace with other airlines I think UA would place a premium heavy MAX 10 on SFO-MCO, LAX-MCO, and perhaps SFO-FLL.

UA ordered 100 MAX 10s pre-pandemic the plan was half and half, 50 frames would be in standard configuration and 50 frames would have lie flat seats. I can't tell you if that is still the plan going forward but I do know pre-pandemic UA was still working on United Coast. After the media got wind of this in 2017 UA went silent on this project, the MAX grounding and now MAX 10 EIS delay has pushed the project back even further. Prior to the pandemic UA was working on United Coast as a way to take on JetBlue's MINT product which really has change domestic travel on many of these long coast to coast routes.


You’re absolutely right.

I would also assign these routes to the premium Max-10
EWR-SJU,
EWR-CUN
EWR-FLL

Those are the last routes that need premium max10s


Don’t tell that to B6 with Caribbean mint flights. Post Covid, these routes would be easy targets. EWR already has wide bodies flying to SJU. CUN / FLL schedule is usually 6 or more flights a day. There are several markets where a premium Max-10 can support.

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