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FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:30 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
The US airlines wanted to reduce capacity even before COVID.


While I agree with the overall point of your post (that AA will be smaller coming out of this), the above is incorrect. All major U.S. airlines were still very much in growth mode going into COVID-19. Earlier this year, AA, UA, and WN couldn't wait to get their MAXs back in the air and deliveries resumed!
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FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:31 am

flyPIT wrote:


Wow :eyepopping:

Were there ever that many tails of the same color at PIT even during the US hub days!?
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flyPIT
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:50 am

FSDan wrote:
flyPIT wrote:


Wow :eyepopping:

Were there ever that many tails of the same color at PIT even during the US hub days!?


No. I think there are 96 AA planes parked. Add in a few more for current ops and that should put the total at over 100 on the ground at one time. During the hub days they used a maximum of 80 gates including Express gates.
FLYi
 
Whiteguy
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:16 am

MO11 wrote:
planecane wrote:

The 757-200 is still in the schedule for MIA-EGE in January 2021. Wasn't the official announcement retiring them by May 2021?


I assume you realize that any future schedule you see for American is good for maybe 3-4 days out. January is not on anyone's radar.


Even the winter schedule won’t be updated until summer anyway. Winter ‘20/‘21 schedule for all airlines is going to look a lot different then planned.
 
planecane
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:49 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
planecane wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Official, major retirements:

AA retiring Aircraft.
Earliest 737-800 (qty 76)
Oldest A330 (qty 9 A330-300)
757-200 (qty 34)
767-300ER (qty 16)
E-190 (qty 20)
https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... -737-a330/

Several types permanently retired. :cry2:

Lightsaber


The 757-200 is still in the schedule for MIA-EGE in January 2021. Wasn't the official announcement retiring them by May 2021?


They have not updated their schedule for aircraft just frequencies.
Boof02671 wrote:
planecane wrote:

The 757-200 is still in the schedule for MIA-EGE in January 2021. Wasn't the official announcement retiring them by May 2021?

Yes summer of 2021


They are now going sooner than 2021.


I'll be curious if they can still fly that route without the 757. I'd assume that if another of their aircraft could do it with a reasonable load they would have used something more efficient by now. I'd guess an A319 could do it with seats blocked but it would be lower capacity than the typical load on the route that I've observed. I don't think the 738 or A321 has the necessary climb performance. I've only ever noticed 757s, 73Gs or A319s from any airline to any destination out of EGE.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:10 am

planecane wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
planecane wrote:

The 757-200 is still in the schedule for MIA-EGE in January 2021. Wasn't the official announcement retiring them by May 2021?


They have not updated their schedule for aircraft just frequencies.
Boof02671 wrote:
Yes summer of 2021


They are now going sooner than 2021.


I'll be curious if they can still fly that route without the 757. I'd assume that if another of their aircraft could do it with a reasonable load they would have used something more efficient by now. I'd guess an A319 could do it with seats blocked but it would be lower capacity than the typical load on the route that I've observed. I don't think the 738 or A321 has the necessary climb performance. I've only ever noticed 757s, 73Gs or A319s from any airline to any destination out of EGE.


You must be talking about the A321OEO of the current generation. Because I think that the 321NEO has a better climb performance. Wasn't the A321NeoLR ordered as 757 replacement? Until the first NeoLR arrives, a NEO could do it with a restricted payload.
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rising
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:26 am

Are there plans to have the internal mods, like Project Oasis/Kodiak, continue during this downtime? I feel like they could probably get it all done....

Or are they not spending on anything of the like for now?
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:52 am

rising wrote:
Are there plans to have the internal mods, like Project Oasis/Kodiak, continue during this downtime? I feel like they could probably get it all done....

Or are they not spending on anything of the like for now?


Name of the game right now is cash conservation. Mods cost money at the time of work so they will be held off. The only ones you might see will be a 738 or two that are in TUL already and AA already has all the parts required and needs something for their mechanics to do as heavy MX work slows.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
UA748i
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:59 am

rising wrote:
Are there plans to have the internal mods, like Project Oasis/Kodiak, continue during this downtime? I feel like they could probably get it all done....

Or are they not spending on anything of the like for now?


I would argue that Project Oasis should be scrapped altogether. Increasing the capacity of 737s and A321s, now more than ever, is detrimental to the company's short term objectives.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:51 am

American 767 wrote:
planecane wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They have not updated their schedule for aircraft just frequencies.

They are now going sooner than 2021.


I'll be curious if they can still fly that route without the 757. I'd assume that if another of their aircraft could do it with a reasonable load they would have used something more efficient by now. I'd guess an A319 could do it with seats blocked but it would be lower capacity than the typical load on the route that I've observed. I don't think the 738 or A321 has the necessary climb performance. I've only ever noticed 757s, 73Gs or A319s from any airline to any destination out of EGE.


You must be talking about the A321OEO of the current generation. Because I think that the 321NEO has a better climb performance. Wasn't the A321NeoLR ordered as 757 replacement? Until the first NeoLR arrives, a NEO could do it with a restricted payload.

They didn’t order the LR, they ordered the XLR.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:23 am

Interesting note that AA has the A321 in Transcon, LAA, LUS, and Oasis. Also A321NEO ACF. Add in the A321XLR config.
Damn the A321 is cool.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:31 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Interesting note that AA has the A321 in Transcon, LAA, LUS, and Oasis. Also A321NEO ACF. Add in the A321XLR config.
Damn the A321 is cool.

XLR won’t show up till 2023
 
SWALUV
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:05 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Official, major retirements:

AA retiring Aircraft.
Earliest 737-800 (qty 76)
Oldest A330 (qty 9 A330-300)
757-200 (qty 34)
767-300ER (qty 16)
E-190 (qty 20)
https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... -737-a330/

Several types permanently retired. :cry2:

Lightsaber


In regards to the 50 seaters that were being looked at for removal from the fleet, worth mentioning that the flying for PSA's 200's have been cancelled for all of April.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:21 pm

SWALUV wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Official, major retirements:

AA retiring Aircraft.
Earliest 737-800 (qty 76)
Oldest A330 (qty 9 A330-300)
757-200 (qty 34)
767-300ER (qty 16)
E-190 (qty 20)
https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... -737-a330/

Several types permanently retired. :cry2:

Lightsaber


In regards to the 50 seaters that were being looked at for removal from the fleet, worth mentioning that the flying for PSA's 200's have been cancelled for all of April.

PSA has removed them from the fleet.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:31 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
SWALUV wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Official, major retirements:

AA retiring Aircraft.
Earliest 737-800 (qty 76)
Oldest A330 (qty 9 A330-300)
757-200 (qty 34)
767-300ER (qty 16)
E-190 (qty 20)
https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... -737-a330/

Several types permanently retired. :cry2:

Lightsaber


In regards to the 50 seaters that were being looked at for removal from the fleet, worth mentioning that the flying for PSA's 200's have been cancelled for all of April.

PSA has removed them from the fleet.


This is being discussed on the American Eagle thread
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:44 pm

PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:49 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


Either way, the A321(XLR) and 787 would’ve been the staple for future long-haul flights out of PHL, even before the coronavirus set in. It just accelerated the shift.
 
aerace
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:57 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


As a PHL-based traveler, I personally think we are winners here. The dinosaur 767s and 757s are dated, gross, and unreliable. I connect through MIA a lot and the thought of never having to fly these aircraft anymore makes me pretty damn happy. Now will this effect the destinations served is to be seen. There will be some shifting all across the network so these next few months will be interesting.
 
planecane
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:04 pm

American 767 wrote:
planecane wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

They have not updated their schedule for aircraft just frequencies.

They are now going sooner than 2021.


I'll be curious if they can still fly that route without the 757. I'd assume that if another of their aircraft could do it with a reasonable load they would have used something more efficient by now. I'd guess an A319 could do it with seats blocked but it would be lower capacity than the typical load on the route that I've observed. I don't think the 738 or A321 has the necessary climb performance. I've only ever noticed 757s, 73Gs or A319s from any airline to any destination out of EGE.


You must be talking about the A321OEO of the current generation. Because I think that the 321NEO has a better climb performance. Wasn't the A321NeoLR ordered as 757 replacement? Until the first NeoLR arrives, a NEO could do it with a restricted payload.


I could be wrong but I don't believe the A321NEO has better climb performance than the 737-800 or the A320CEO. Despite every airline that flies out of EGE having one of those models (or both), I've only ever seen the 737-700 or A319 there. United has flown EGE-EWR with a 737-700. That route is about 90 miles shorter than EGE-MIA.

I assume that the A319 can perform the flight but may need to block some seats. Since it only has 128 to start with, it may not be economical. Even at full capacity, it is a lot fewer seats than the typical passenger load I've seen on the flight. However, the route can't support 2 A319s per day.

I hope the A321NEO can do it. If it can with 40 seats blocked or something like that it would perfectly replace the 757 for that route. I don't have near the technical knowledge to be able to figure out if it can meet the required performance. The RWY 25 departure requires 740' per nm climb to FL 10200. The airport elevation is 6540'.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:07 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


3/4 isn't accurate if you're looking at overall numbers of aircraft being retired... The 76 738s are mostly based at other hubs, and that's close to half of the entire ~155 that have been pegged for retirement. That said, I'd expect PHL to be backfilled with some airbuses and 737s from other hubs if necessary to account for the E90 and 757 draw down. On the long haul front, PHL will likely remain the base for the 332s, and will see more 787s as needed. It's possible AA will cut back some of the secondary European flying from CLT in the short term to concentrate on funneling TATL traffic through PHL (think seasonal routes like CLT-DUB, CLT-MAD, CLT-BCN, CLT-FCO, etc.), in which case the 332 fleet could probably cover most of the short term needs of the PHL TATL network.

aerace wrote:
Now will this effect the destinations served is to be seen. There will be some shifting all across the network so these next few months will be interesting.


It will definitely affect the destinations served - there's just no way to retire this many aircraft without shrinking the network accordingly. On the domestic side, I think you can look at the recent MAX-related cancellations across the network for some guidance. PHL-SAT seems like a route that AA is always perpetually delaying/cutting. There will probably be some transcon frequencies cut. Longer and more recently added RJ routes like PHL-OKC/OMA/DSM/XNA/MSN could be in some danger.

Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.
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FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:11 pm

planecane wrote:
American 767 wrote:
planecane wrote:

I'll be curious if they can still fly that route without the 757. I'd assume that if another of their aircraft could do it with a reasonable load they would have used something more efficient by now. I'd guess an A319 could do it with seats blocked but it would be lower capacity than the typical load on the route that I've observed. I don't think the 738 or A321 has the necessary climb performance. I've only ever noticed 757s, 73Gs or A319s from any airline to any destination out of EGE.


You must be talking about the A321OEO of the current generation. Because I think that the 321NEO has a better climb performance. Wasn't the A321NeoLR ordered as 757 replacement? Until the first NeoLR arrives, a NEO could do it with a restricted payload.


I could be wrong but I don't believe the A321NEO has better climb performance than the 737-800 or the A320CEO. Despite every airline that flies out of EGE having one of those models (or both), I've only ever seen the 737-700 or A319 there. United has flown EGE-EWR with a 737-700. That route is about 90 miles shorter than EGE-MIA.

I assume that the A319 can perform the flight but may need to block some seats. Since it only has 128 to start with, it may not be economical. Even at full capacity, it is a lot fewer seats than the typical passenger load I've seen on the flight. However, the route can't support 2 A319s per day.

I hope the A321NEO can do it. If it can with 40 seats blocked or something like that it would perfectly replace the 757 for that route. I don't have near the technical knowledge to be able to figure out if it can meet the required performance. The RWY 25 departure requires 740' per nm climb to FL 10200. The airport elevation is 6540'.


If all else fails, I'm sure AA will be happy to route EGE-bound MIA passengers through DFW (they could add additional A319 frequencies to DFW-EGE as needed). AA wouldn't have to worry about another airline picking up MIA-EGE nonstop, although they would then have to compete with DL one-stops via ATL and UA via IAH.
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chepos
Posts: 7273
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:16 pm

FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


3/4 isn't accurate if you're looking at overall numbers of aircraft being retired... The 76 738s are mostly based at other hubs, and that's close to half of the entire ~155 that have been pegged for retirement. That said, I'd expect PHL to be backfilled with some airbuses and 737s from other hubs if necessary to account for the E90 and 757 draw down. On the long haul front, PHL will likely remain the base for the 332s, and will see more 787s as needed. It's possible AA will cut back some of the secondary European flying from CLT in the short term to concentrate on funneling TATL traffic through PHL (think seasonal routes like CLT-DUB, CLT-MAD, CLT-BCN, CLT-FCO, etc.), in which case the 332 fleet could probably cover most of the short term needs of the PHL TATL network.

aerace wrote:
Now will this effect the destinations served is to be seen. There will be some shifting all across the network so these next few months will be interesting.


It will definitely affect the destinations served - there's just no way to retire this many aircraft without shrinking the network accordingly. On the domestic side, I think you can look at the recent MAX-related cancellations across the network for some guidance. PHL-SAT seems like a route that AA is always perpetually delaying/cutting. There will probably be some transcon frequencies cut. Longer and more recently added RJ routes like PHL-OKC/OMA/DSM/XNA/MSN could be in some danger.

Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.

MAN had transitioned to a 787 back in JAN, it was going to revert to a 767 as the 787 was going to be used in other missions (additional summer flying). Many of that new flying is not going to occur now I presume.


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planecane
Posts: 1578
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:20 pm

FSDan wrote:
planecane wrote:
American 767 wrote:

You must be talking about the A321OEO of the current generation. Because I think that the 321NEO has a better climb performance. Wasn't the A321NeoLR ordered as 757 replacement? Until the first NeoLR arrives, a NEO could do it with a restricted payload.


I could be wrong but I don't believe the A321NEO has better climb performance than the 737-800 or the A320CEO. Despite every airline that flies out of EGE having one of those models (or both), I've only ever seen the 737-700 or A319 there. United has flown EGE-EWR with a 737-700. That route is about 90 miles shorter than EGE-MIA.

I assume that the A319 can perform the flight but may need to block some seats. Since it only has 128 to start with, it may not be economical. Even at full capacity, it is a lot fewer seats than the typical passenger load I've seen on the flight. However, the route can't support 2 A319s per day.

I hope the A321NEO can do it. If it can with 40 seats blocked or something like that it would perfectly replace the 757 for that route. I don't have near the technical knowledge to be able to figure out if it can meet the required performance. The RWY 25 departure requires 740' per nm climb to FL 10200. The airport elevation is 6540'.


If all else fails, I'm sure AA will be happy to route EGE-bound MIA passengers through DFW (they could add additional A319 frequencies to DFW-EGE as needed). AA wouldn't have to worry about another airline picking up MIA-EGE nonstop, although they would then have to compete with DL one-stops via ATL and UA via IAH.


I'm sure they could route through DFW (although they used the 752 a lot from there also) but they won't be able to charge the premium that they charged for the nonstop.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4164
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:57 pm

FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


3/4 isn't accurate if you're looking at overall numbers of aircraft being retired... The 76 738s are mostly based at other hubs, and that's close to half of the entire ~155 that have been pegged for retirement. That said, I'd expect PHL to be backfilled with some airbuses and 737s from other hubs if necessary to account for the E90 and 757 draw down. On the long haul front, PHL will likely remain the base for the 332s, and will see more 787s as needed. It's possible AA will cut back some of the secondary European flying from CLT in the short term to concentrate on funneling TATL traffic through PHL (think seasonal routes like CLT-DUB, CLT-MAD, CLT-BCN, CLT-FCO, etc.), in which case the 332 fleet could probably cover most of the short term needs of the PHL TATL network.

aerace wrote:
Now will this effect the destinations served is to be seen. There will be some shifting all across the network so these next few months will be interesting.


It will definitely affect the destinations served - there's just no way to retire this many aircraft without shrinking the network accordingly. On the domestic side, I think you can look at the recent MAX-related cancellations across the network for some guidance. PHL-SAT seems like a route that AA is always perpetually delaying/cutting. There will probably be some transcon frequencies cut. Longer and more recently added RJ routes like PHL-OKC/OMA/DSM/XNA/MSN could be in some danger.

Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.

Agree that I think CLT-BCN/FCO might be cut. Same as ORD-VCE/KRK/BUD/PRG, DFW-FCO/AMS (or at least dowgrade to 788). Not just the new cities, but the additional services from DFW/ORD.
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:30 pm

When are all the 767s officially going away? AA flew the last MIA-LIM-MIA service last weekend.
 
anymaninfc
Posts: 277
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:13 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:32 pm

PRAirbus wrote:
When are all the 767s officially going away? AA flew the last MIA-LIM-MIA service last weekend.


They are gone. The last two B767s were flown to ROW yesterday.
 
aerace
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:59 pm

FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


3/4 isn't accurate if you're looking at overall numbers of aircraft being retired... The 76 738s are mostly based at other hubs, and that's close to half of the entire ~155 that have been pegged for retirement. That said, I'd expect PHL to be backfilled with some airbuses and 737s from other hubs if necessary to account for the E90 and 757 draw down. On the long haul front, PHL will likely remain the base for the 332s, and will see more 787s as needed. It's possible AA will cut back some of the secondary European flying from CLT in the short term to concentrate on funneling TATL traffic through PHL (think seasonal routes like CLT-DUB, CLT-MAD, CLT-BCN, CLT-FCO, etc.), in which case the 332 fleet could probably cover most of the short term needs of the PHL TATL network.

aerace wrote:
Now will this effect the destinations served is to be seen. There will be some shifting all across the network so these next few months will be interesting.


It will definitely affect the destinations served - there's just no way to retire this many aircraft without shrinking the network accordingly. On the domestic side, I think you can look at the recent MAX-related cancellations across the network for some guidance. PHL-SAT seems like a route that AA is always perpetually delaying/cutting. There will probably be some transcon frequencies cut. Longer and more recently added RJ routes like PHL-OKC/OMA/DSM/XNA/MSN could be in some danger.

Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.


Oh I completely agree with your thought process for sure. Definitely going to be some delays in resumptions. I was referring to destinations being eliminated completely (like how Brussels was eliminated after the terror attack).
 
aerace
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:08 pm

usairways85 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems like the biggest loser here with 3/4 aircraft being retired being based at PHL. Is the future of PHL going to be more A319/321s and 787s?


3/4 isn't accurate if you're looking at overall numbers of aircraft being retired... The 76 738s are mostly based at other hubs, and that's close to half of the entire ~155 that have been pegged for retirement. That said, I'd expect PHL to be backfilled with some airbuses and 737s from other hubs if necessary to account for the E90 and 757 draw down. On the long haul front, PHL will likely remain the base for the 332s, and will see more 787s as needed. It's possible AA will cut back some of the secondary European flying from CLT in the short term to concentrate on funneling TATL traffic through PHL (think seasonal routes like CLT-DUB, CLT-MAD, CLT-BCN, CLT-FCO, etc.), in which case the 332 fleet could probably cover most of the short term needs of the PHL TATL network.

aerace wrote:
Now will this effect the destinations served is to be seen. There will be some shifting all across the network so these next few months will be interesting.


It will definitely affect the destinations served - there's just no way to retire this many aircraft without shrinking the network accordingly. On the domestic side, I think you can look at the recent MAX-related cancellations across the network for some guidance. PHL-SAT seems like a route that AA is always perpetually delaying/cutting. There will probably be some transcon frequencies cut. Longer and more recently added RJ routes like PHL-OKC/OMA/DSM/XNA/MSN could be in some danger.

Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.

Agree that I think CLT-BCN/FCO might be cut. Same as ORD-VCE/KRK/BUD/PRG, DFW-FCO/AMS (or at least dowgrade to 788). Not just the new cities, but the additional services from DFW/ORD.


Absolutely. I would think those seasonals that were recently added to airports further away are on the immediate chopping block, which leads me to presume PHL routes might have more of a fighting chance. I wouldn't be surprised if we also see JFK flights dropped in favor of PHL, like BCN and MAD for instance, and let IB and Level handle those routes for the time being.
 
ACA772LR
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:15 pm

So to clarify, does this mean that the revised 757 retirement date of next May I think it was of 2021 is now scrapped and these birds are being retired ASAP now?
 
anymaninfc
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:22 pm

ACA772LR wrote:
So to clarify, does this mean that the revised 757 retirement date of next May I think it was of 2021 is now scrapped and these birds are being retired ASAP now?


All AA B757s have been parked. Nine are parked at TUL and I believe are, for the time being, considered short term storage. The balance have been parked at ROW and I believe are considered retired. Mind you, these are just my beliefs. I think we will have to wait to see how much of a recovery our economy makes, and more important, how quickly our aviation market returns.
 
tnair1974
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:32 pm

planecane wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
planecane wrote:

The 757-200 is still in the schedule for MIA-EGE in January 2021. Wasn't the official announcement retiring them by May 2021?


They have not updated their schedule for aircraft just frequencies.
Boof02671 wrote:
Yes summer of 2021


They are now going sooner than 2021.


I'll be curious if they can still fly that route without the 757. I'd assume that if another of their aircraft could do it with a reasonable load they would have used something more efficient by now. I'd guess an A319 could do it with seats blocked but it would be lower capacity than the typical load on the route that I've observed. I don't think the 738 or A321 has the necessary climb performance. I've only ever noticed 757s, 73Gs or A319s from any airline to any destination out of EGE.

From what I understand, the A319s that AA sends to EGE tend to be the much newer models as they have higher thrust engines.

An interesting contrast to this is that AA mostly sends the more vintage A319s like the ex-US birds to LAX, largely for longer thinner routes such as LAX-OMA/IND/AUS/SDF/RDU, etc. At least one notable exception is that EGE-LAX is flown by the newer more powerful AA A319s.

Whether even the newer AA 319s would be workable economically (even if there would be no need(?) to block out seats) for longer routes like EGE-MIA is another question.

As a side note, UA use to send at least a few A320s/old 733s to EGE. But most if not all of these flights were EGE-DEN thus there would be a minimal fuel load on these short hops.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:46 am

tnair1974 wrote:
Whether even the newer AA 319s would be workable economically (even if there would be no need(?) to block out seats) for longer routes like EGE-MIA is another question.


If there were no need to block seats, I don't see why a 319 would otherwise not be economically viable on a route like MIA-EGE. All three of the U.S. majors routinely fly 319s on routes longer than that.
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Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:56 am

FSDan wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Whether even the newer AA 319s would be workable economically (even if there would be no need(?) to block out seats) for longer routes like EGE-MIA is another question.


If there were no need to block seats, I don't see why a 319 would otherwise not be economically viable on a route like MIA-EGE. All three of the U.S. majors routinely fly 319s on routes longer than that.

Altitude and runway length
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:35 am

Boof02671 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Whether even the newer AA 319s would be workable economically (even if there would be no need(?) to block out seats) for longer routes like EGE-MIA is another question.


If there were no need to block seats, I don't see why a 319 would otherwise not be economically viable on a route like MIA-EGE. All three of the U.S. majors routinely fly 319s on routes longer than that.

Altitude and runway length


FSDan clearly states if there was no need (implying that if the altitude, runway length, and terrain were not an issue) for blocking of seats that there would be no reason why a 319 wouldn't be economically viable. It has nothing to do with whether or not there is a need to block seats.
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BA744PHX
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:37 am

 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:18 am

FSDan wrote:
Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.


KEF can be flown on A321 from PHL or JFK.

SNN and EDI may be cut completely until 2021. CMN could be flown by B788 if needed. But I guess delay the inaugural is the correct choice.

MAN, BUD and DBV may be kept with B788 with reduced frequency. LIS and TXL may be cut.

Some frequency between MIA to CDG/BCN/FCO/MXP may be cut too.

Just my guesses.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:28 pm

BA744PHX wrote:


Ooops sorry about that. Not the video I intended to copy and paste. The first two were the good ones anyway.
FLYi
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:25 pm

chonetsao wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.


KEF can be flown on A321 from PHL or JFK.


Sure, but I'm guessing KEF might not be worth serving at all for AA in a sour economy. Heck, they haven't even had the chance to fly PHL-KEF at all yet, as the route was DFW-KEF last summer and they decided that one wasn't worth keeping... And FI wasn't even planning daily service in the PHL-KEF market, even just on a MAX-8.

chonetsao wrote:
SNN and EDI may be cut completely until 2021. CMN could be flown by B788 if needed. But I guess delay the inaugural is the correct choice.


Yes, delaying seems like the right choice. A route initially planned as a 3x weekly 752 doesn't seem like a good candidate for upgauging.

chonetsao wrote:
MAN, BUD and DBV may be kept with B788 with reduced frequency. LIS and TXL may be cut.


Honestly, I think LIS is more likely to be kept than either BUD or DBV. AA has a longer history in the market. BUD and DBV will be good candidates to bring back once TATL tourism is booming again (maybe next summer, maybe a few years later...). Until then, it probably makes more sense for AA to continue funneling passengers via LHR.

chonetsao wrote:
Some frequency between MIA to CDG/BCN/FCO/MXP may be cut too.


AA doesn't fly MIA-FCO. Of the above, MXP is probably most in danger, although it seems to have been a fairly solid route for a while. Hopefully at worst it would be downgauged to a 788 in the long term as those start making their way to MIA. But given the situation in Lombardy, who knows when AA will want to fly to MXP again.
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Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:41 pm

FSDan wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Internationally, I'd expect a lot of the secondary/tertiary European flights to be cut for at least a few years while things stabilize. You can start with the 757 routes: CMN, KEF, SNN, EDI. KEF could be flown with a 7M8 if AA wanted to (when they get them back), but it's probably easier for them to pull out of KEF and leave that route to FI. Until the 321XLRs arrive, I don't know that AA will have the right aircraft to fly to CMN, SNN, and EDI. Next take a look at the 767 routes: MAN, LIS, TXL, BUD, and DBV. I think those will all go away except maybe LIS seasonally, which could probably work on a 332 if demand returns by next summer. MAN could also probably work on a 332.


KEF can be flown on A321 from PHL or JFK.


Sure, but I'm guessing KEF might not be worth serving at all for AA in a sour economy. Heck, they haven't even had the chance to fly PHL-KEF at all yet, as the route was DFW-KEF last summer and they decided that one wasn't worth keeping... And FI wasn't even planning daily service in the PHL-KEF market, even just on a MAX-8.


DFW-KEF never should've existed. The only reason they launched the route was because both WOW and Icelandair entered, so AA had to start a bloodbath.

FSDan wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
SNN and EDI may be cut completely until 2021. CMN could be flown by B788 if needed. But I guess delay the inaugural is the correct choice.


Yes, delaying seems like the right choice. A route initially planned as a 3x weekly 752 doesn't seem like a good candidate for upgauging.


PHL-CMN seems to have been cut as it's no longer available for booking the entire summer.

FSDan wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
MAN, BUD and DBV may be kept with B788 with reduced frequency. LIS and TXL may be cut.


Honestly, I think LIS is more likely to be kept than either BUD or DBV. AA has a longer history in the market. BUD and DBV will be good candidates to bring back once TATL tourism is booming again (maybe next summer, maybe a few years later...). Until then, it probably makes more sense for AA to continue funneling passengers via LHR.


MAN, BUD, DBV, TXL, LIS have all been cut for the summer. Some will return September/October.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:24 pm

Ishrion wrote:
MAN, BUD, DBV, TXL, LIS have all been cut for the summer. Some will return September/October.


Is this internal info? I don't see these cuts loaded yet, although they aren't surprising given they were all to be operated by 763s this summer.

As for a September/October return, only MAN and LIS have a shot at that in my opinion.
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chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:31 am

FSDan wrote:
AA doesn't fly MIA-FCO. Of the above, MXP is probably most in danger, although it seems to have been a fairly solid route for a while. Hopefully at worst it would be downgauged to a 788 in the long term as those start making their way to MIA. But given the situation in Lombardy, who knows when AA will want to fly to MXP again.


You are right about MIA-FCO. I had a bad memory and made a mistake here.

I said all above before AA finalised its summer schedule. It is worse than I anticipated.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:36 am

FSDan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
MAN, BUD, DBV, TXL, LIS have all been cut for the summer. Some will return September/October.


Is this internal info? I don't see these cuts loaded yet, although they aren't surprising given they were all to be operated by 763s this summer.

As for a September/October return, only MAN and LIS have a shot at that in my opinion.


Announced yesterday:

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

PHL-MAN returns October. The rest are gone for 2020.
 
jetsetter629
Posts: 494
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:07 pm

What is AA's plan for their 757 & 767 routes to South America like LIM, UIO, GYE, and BSB? Assuming long term they'll be on the MAX but I know cargo capacity is a big driver, especially for Peru and Ecuador
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:19 pm

jetsetter629 wrote:
What is AA's plan for their 757 & 767 routes to South America like LIM, UIO, GYE, and BSB? Assuming long term they'll be on the MAX but I know cargo capacity is a big driver, especially for Peru and Ecuador


Someone with internal info earlier said 752s will be replaced by A321neos until the XLRs arrive.

For 767s, I'm sure we can expect the 788.
 
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chepos
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:23 pm

Ishrion wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:
What is AA's plan for their 757 & 767 routes to South America like LIM, UIO, GYE, and BSB? Assuming long term they'll be on the MAX but I know cargo capacity is a big driver, especially for Peru and Ecuador


Someone with internal info earlier said 752s will be replaced by A321neos until the XLRs arrive.

For 767s, I'm sure we can expect the 788.

I am assuming DFW-LIM which is slated to resume in July could possibly operate on the 788.


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FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:10 pm

chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:
What is AA's plan for their 757 & 767 routes to South America like LIM, UIO, GYE, and BSB? Assuming long term they'll be on the MAX but I know cargo capacity is a big driver, especially for Peru and Ecuador


Someone with internal info earlier said 752s will be replaced by A321neos until the XLRs arrive.

For 767s, I'm sure we can expect the 788.

I am assuming DFW-LIM which is slated to resume in July could possibly operate on the 788.


Yeah, that's too far for any current AA narrowbody that's not a 757, right? I suppose the alternative is that they are still planning on keeping a handful of the LAA 757s through the rest of this year.

In theory the 763 flights on MIA-GYE and MIA-LIM could even be replaced by 332s in the short term (assuming widebody cargo capacity is still needed), given the drastic reduction in CLT and PHL to Europe flying this year. We'll know on Sunday morning!
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jgcotter
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:23 pm

Looks like the 752s are starting to ferry from TUL to ROW for retirement. And the E190s from PIT and SAT to ROW for retirement.
 
tnair1974
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:35 am

FSDan wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Whether even the newer AA 319s would be workable economically (even if there would be no need(?) to block out seats) for longer routes like EGE-MIA is another question.


If there were no need to block seats, I don't see why a 319 would otherwise not be economically viable on a route like MIA-EGE. All three of the U.S. majors routinely fly 319s on routes longer than that.

AA A319s doing RDU-LAX was mentioned. At one point anyway, DL A319s operated IAD-SEA (DL was connecting IAD to its SEA hub, but wouldn't be too surprising if UA A319s did the same route).

By today's standards, the A319 has only fair economics compared to newer designs. This is in part because the A319 is a "shrink" model. But the A319 of course has much commonality with A320s/A321s which helps greatly with maintenance and flight crew training costs at AA and other carriers. As long as oil prices stay relatively low, A319s should remain effective.

To my knowledge, AA at EGE has used their newer, more powerful A319s EGE-LAX/ORD/DFW. Any other AA A319 routes from EGE?

As a side note, I have fond memories of my first 757 ride back in the early 1990s (an AA 752 DFW-BNA, shortly after 752s entered service with AA). Sad to see the 757 go at AA :cry2: even if an older design. May still be hard to beat the power-to-weight and CASM stats of 752s, but at least at AA that's about to become moot.
 
miaami
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:23 pm

2 AA 330s on their way from SAL to ELP to ROW today 4/8/20

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9607

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9608

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