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NLINK
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:44 pm

If AA decides there is a need to reduce the wide body fleet further that the 330-330 and 767-300ER has 2 ways of thinking about it.
Way 1 is to retire the older 777-200ER, they are a little larger than the 330-200. Pros are they are older. Cons are they have no resale value at all, they can't be converted to freighters, and they could no way possibly eliminate all 47 to get rid of the engine type to reduce cost.
Way 2 is to retire the 330-200. They are a touch smaller than the 777-200ER which his probably better in this environment. Pro's to retire that sublet is there is a resale value to around a I think 12 year old aircraft, they could eliminate a type and the engine type to streamline everything. Cons they are more right sized for the current environment.
 
anymaninfc
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:01 pm

AA's A332, N281AY is enroute PIT to ROW on AAL9607, currently, 4-20. That leaves just N285AY at PIT, and N284AY and N291AY at El Salvator in maint.

Earlier today, E190, N965UW was flown to ROW. Two remaining E190 aircraft, N963UW and N967UW, in PIT.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:32 pm

American is sending a 787-8 to Miami, N817AN, presumably for crew familiarization purposes.

I assume this is the first time an American 787 has flown to Miami?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n817an
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:15 am

Ishrion wrote:
American is sending a 787-8 to Miami, N817AN, presumably for crew familiarization purposes.

I assume this is the first time an American 787 has flown to Miami?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n817an


Was here once before on a tour of the system when the 788 first arrived at AA. Hopefully we'll be seeing the 788 (and 789) in the coming months here at MIA.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:57 am

NYCAAer wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
For those saying the A332s aren't getting retired, the question is, if int'l travel doesn't spring back much by summer 2021, which widebodies would you park? The A333s and 763s are already parked, the choice is either park the A332s, which is the next-smallest widebody sub-fleet and whose capabilities/capacity are duplicated by the 788, or park part of the 787 or 777 fleets and have 3 main widebody types. The 77Ws could be an alternative, but that will likely require reconfiguring one of their other fleet types to a high-J config.



There have also been tornadoes in downtown Miami, but I don't think people will argue it has the same risk of tornadoes as Tulsa does


It will be B777-200s. Some of the B777 is approaching retirement age, that is why additional B789s were ordered to replace older B777-200ER.

If the market does not go back to what it used to be, AA just need to put forward the B777-200ER retirement plan. A332 is great in managing capacity lower.

If the market eventually go back what it used to be, B777-200ER and A332 are both needed.

In any given market situation, AA will keep B777-300ER. It is a great aircraft and AA knows which market can take it.


Correct, the oldest 772s in the fleet are 21 years old, there are about a dozen of them. They were due to be replaced by 789s in 2023, but if demand is low, they could potentially be retired a little sooner, even without the 789 deliveries. I don’t see the 332s going out to pasture yet, they serve a very specific market need, in markets where fewer seats are sold in premium cabins.

The 77Ws are used in those few markets where a high number of premium seats are sold and where capacity is needed for coach and cargo. The 77W works perfectly for LHR in particular, where the vast majority of 77W routes are flown. AA has been very happy with them, and they’re still quite efficient. A captain I was flying with on LHR-JFK told me that the fuel burn of the 300 is barely more than the 200, with a lot more capacity.


“Barely more” is about 10,000 to 20,000 pounds of fuel for the same flight, though I suppose with current oil prices that’s not a very big problem.

N62NA wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American is sending a 787-8 to Miami, N817AN, presumably for crew familiarization purposes.

I assume this is the first time an American 787 has flown to Miami?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n817an


Was here once before on a tour of the system when the 788 first arrived at AA. Hopefully we'll be seeing the 788 (and 789) in the coming months here at MIA.


Considering that it’s here for familiarization purposes, I would expect MIA to start seeing 787s once international travel reopens now that the 767s are gone.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:30 am

You do realize the A321XLRs don’t get delivered til 2023?
 
brooklynchris13
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:31 pm

One of the long standing goals of AA has been to pick up more used A319s. There were rumors a few months ago about the Alaska (ex VA) birds being a target. Might seem really crazy to talk about acquiring anything during this time, but I can't help but wonder if AA would try to scoop up any A319s suddenly available for cheap as a result of the current situation?
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
silentbob
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:34 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
One of the long standing goals of AA has been to pick up more used A319s. There were rumors a few months ago about the Alaska (ex VA) birds being a target. Might seem really crazy to talk about acquiring anything during this time, but I can't help but wonder if AA would try to scoop up any A319s suddenly available for cheap as a result of the current situation?

Makes some sense, especially if they can lock in acquisition but defer the cost by delaying delivery.
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:42 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
One of the long standing goals of AA has been to pick up more used A319s. There were rumors a few months ago about the Alaska (ex VA) birds being a target. Might seem really crazy to talk about acquiring anything during this time, but I can't help but wonder if AA would try to scoop up any A319s suddenly available for cheap as a result of the current situation?


I won't discount this idea.

They retired E190 and they need some smaller jet to replace. Also AA has the A320 fleet due for retirement soon. They have already delayed retirement of A320 once.

If there are 50-ish young A319 at a bargain price, I can see AA swoop them in order to retire the aging A320.

Not to mention currently the B737-8MAX is still a big question mark.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:12 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
One of the long standing goals of AA has been to pick up more used A319s. There were rumors a few months ago about the Alaska (ex VA) birds being a target. Might seem really crazy to talk about acquiring anything during this time, but I can't help but wonder if AA would try to scoop up any A319s suddenly available for cheap as a result of the current situation?


Depends on how long the downturn lasts. If they end up having to lay people and downsize the operation for years then they'll probably have enough aircraft parked (including the 737 MAX) to build up flying without having to buy any new airplanes.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:18 pm

NLINK wrote:
If AA decides there is a need to reduce the wide body fleet further that the 330-330 and 767-300ER has 2 ways of thinking about it.
Way 1 is to retire the older 777-200ER, they are a little larger than the 330-200. Pros are they are older. Cons are they have no resale value at all, they can't be converted to freighters, and they could no way possibly eliminate all 47 to get rid of the engine type to reduce cost.
Way 2 is to retire the 330-200. They are a touch smaller than the 777-200ER which his probably better in this environment. Pro's to retire that sublet is there is a resale value to around a I think 12 year old aircraft, they could eliminate a type and the engine type to streamline everything. Cons they are more right sized for the current environment.


The A332 fleet at AA is actually one of the youngest around; the oldest is 11 yrs. and the youngest just 6 yrs. old. The A333 fleet is much older at 19-20 years old. There is a significant difference between the two with the engines; the A332's use RR Trent 772B-60's and the A333's use PW 4168A's. I would imagine their young age and PIP'ed-up Trent engines would make AA's A332 fleet very attractive on the second-hand market when things start returning to "normal".

The B772ER fleet at AA has little value on the second-hand market. But they are still reasonably-efficient aircraft, so it may be cheaper to keep them and try to squeeze another 5-7 years of front-line service out of them?
 
anymaninfc
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:16 pm

All of AA's E190 acft are now at or on their way to ROW from PIT. Aircraft N967UW on AAL9605 and N961UW on AAL9606.
All of AA's A330 acft at PIT have been moved to ROW, with A332 N285AY enroute on AAL9608. Three A330s still at El Salvador.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:24 pm

They are undergoing heavy maintenance at Aeroman.
 
airplanedaj
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:58 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
NLINK wrote:

The B772ER fleet at AA has little value on the second-hand market. But they are still reasonably-efficient aircraft, so it may be cheaper to keep them and try to squeeze another 5-7 years of front-line service out of them?


With Norwegian looking like they are on the rocks, could we potentially see AA make an offer on at least a portion of their (or any airline that fails to survive this crisis) B788/789 fleet to help retire the remaining A332's and more 772's? I think the 772 stays over the 332, but if they can scoop up enough 787's at under list price that may be enough to send them all to the desert.
 
jbs2886
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:10 pm

airplanedaj wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
NLINK wrote:

The B772ER fleet at AA has little value on the second-hand market. But they are still reasonably-efficient aircraft, so it may be cheaper to keep them and try to squeeze another 5-7 years of front-line service out of them?


With Norwegian looking like they are on the rocks, could we potentially see AA make an offer on at least a portion of their (or any airline that fails to survive this crisis) B788/789 fleet to help retire the remaining A332's and more 772's? I think the 772 stays over the 332, but if they can scoop up enough 787's at under list price that may be enough to send them all to the desert.


No. AA has a very high debt load right now, they aren't going to acquire dozens of 787s (even cheaply) when they have paid-for 777s. Gas is inexpensive and AA has experience maintaining the aircraft. They aren't going to dramatically increase debt in this environment for relatively minimal benefit. You also have to consider the substantial cost to reconfigure the 787 and cash is king right now.
 
avi8
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:20 pm

Don’t forget that the capacity lost from the retired aircraft doesn’t need to be replaced. Demand is at an all time low and won’t return for a while.
avi8
 
jbs2886
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:47 pm

avi8 wrote:
Don’t forget that the capacity lost from the retired aircraft doesn’t need to be replaced. Demand is at an all time low and won’t return for a while.


Yup. I think we will see immediate retirements now, but new aircraft on existing (or even somewhat delayed) delivery schedules will account for the ramp up in demand.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:37 pm

chonetsao wrote:
If there are 50-ish young A319 at a bargain price, I can see AA swoop them in order to retire the aging A320.


You know that firms can terminate contracts in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, right? So you're proposing that Alaska enter a high-value, deferred contract with American Airlines? I don't think AS is that naive... A contract with AA that calls for performance in 18 months or more isn't worth the paper it's written on.
 
NLINK
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:12 pm

I still think a lot people believe trace will return quickly which at the earliest it will be Summer 20201. A lot of business travel is unnecessary and really a perk which I'm not sure if it will every return to the previous levels.
Before this AA had around 150 WB. Based upon a 25% reduction that would be about 38 AC. So 9 330-300, 16 767-300ER, 15 330-200 is 40. Plus with the couple delivery's of 787-8, the 777-200ER visiting CLT, the 787 visiting MIA I'm guessing that is possible.
NB before ws right around 800 I think. Based upon a 25% reduction is around 200 AC gone. So 34 757-200, 76 737-800, 20 190, Plus around 70 other AC which I would guess be older 320 and 319 if cuts go that much.
Bad situation for the employees.
 
smartplane
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:35 pm

NLINK wrote:
I still think a lot people believe trace will return quickly which at the earliest it will be Summer 20201. A lot of business travel is unnecessary and really a perk which I'm not sure if it will every return to the previous levels.
Before this AA had around 150 WB. Based upon a 25% reduction that would be about 38 AC. So 9 330-300, 16 767-300ER, 15 330-200 is 40. Plus with the couple delivery's of 787-8, the 777-200ER visiting CLT, the 787 visiting MIA I'm guessing that is possible.
NB before ws right around 800 I think. Based upon a 25% reduction is around 200 AC gone. So 34 757-200, 76 737-800, 20 190, Plus around 70 other AC which I would guess be older 320 and 319 if cuts go that much.
Bad situation for the employees.

Surely more likely greater than 25% for WB.

Modern WB's come with some pretty clever engine maintenance contracts in terms of fee generation, so no longer quite as easy for opportunists to buy and sell without overheads.
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:36 pm

NLINK wrote:
I still think a lot people believe trace will return quickly which at the earliest it will be Summer 20201. A lot of business travel is unnecessary and really a perk which I'm not sure if it will every return to the previous levels.
Before this AA had around 150 WB. Based upon a 25% reduction that would be about 38 AC. So 9 330-300, 16 767-300ER, 15 330-200 is 40. Plus with the couple delivery's of 787-8, the 777-200ER visiting CLT, the 787 visiting MIA I'm guessing that is possible.
NB before ws right around 800 I think. Based upon a 25% reduction is around 200 AC gone. So 34 757-200, 76 737-800, 20 190, Plus around 70 other AC which I would guess be older 320 and 319 if cuts go that much.
Bad situation for the employees.


"a lot people believe trace will return quickly" … trace? what is "trace"???
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:02 pm

- 767s - 100% gone
- A330-300s - 100% gone

- A330-200s - Are under evaluation.
 
avi8
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:04 pm

I assume he meant "travel". In my opinion, travel to Europe will be focused almost exclusively to LHR, MAD, and CDG with an odd ball route somewhere.
avi8
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:08 pm

Does PHL finally have a chance of seeing the 777 or 787-9 in the near future? (2-3 years)

Also, will the pandemic fast forward the cutting of JFK?
 
illinicmi
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:55 pm

I think anything parked at ROW has a pretty low chance of returning. Maybe not zero, but low. We KNOW the old 737s, 767s, 333s, and 190s are being retired and they are there. The fact that the 332 is being sent there means that AA is at least contemplating not bringing them back.

They could, and maybe they will if demand spikes. But them being in ROW, combined with the apparent crew familiarization flights with the 772 and 788 mentioned above, to me spell an unlikely return for the 332.

The 772 may be older, but they have a lot of them. And fuel is cheap. And even a 332 won't be very full for a while. And the 332 has at least a little bit of resale value. I think AA won't make a final decision on them for a bit, but if demand isn't back in a year I think they are toast.

AA has been pushing fleet simplification for quite some time now, and this plays right into that. These are not normal times, so normal decisions like "these have more premium seating" really don't matter much at the moment.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:27 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Does PHL finally have a chance of seeing the 777 or 787-9 in the near future? (2-3 years)


I'd say so. I think PHL-LHR has a good chance of seeing 772s at some point, even more so if AA does decide to keep the 332s grounded on a longer-term or even permanent basis. PHL-FCO seems like another possibility once demand starts to pick back up. The 789s are maybe a bit less likely for now since there aren't any PHL routes that would require their performance, but it doesn't seem out of the question either.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Also, will the pandemic fast forward the cutting of JFK?


That's a more complicated question, I think, as it has long term strategic implications. It could be the case if the international recovery is slow, because international seemed to be the strongest performing part of the JFK operation recently. If money starts running out at AA, their hand here might be forced. At the same time, I think AA is loathe to give up on New York given their historical strength there and the large number of important markets where they still have a good position - JFK-LAX, JFK-LHR, LGA-DFW, LGA-ORD, LGA-MIA, LGA-CLT, etc.
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NLINK
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:33 am

cathay747 wrote:
NLINK wrote:
I still think a lot people believe trace will return quickly which at the earliest it will be Summer 20201. A lot of business travel is unnecessary and really a perk which I'm not sure if it will every return to the previous levels.
Before this AA had around 150 WB. Based upon a 25% reduction that would be about 38 AC. So 9 330-300, 16 767-300ER, 15 330-200 is 40. Plus with the couple delivery's of 787-8, the 777-200ER visiting CLT, the 787 visiting MIA I'm guessing that is possible.
NB before ws right around 800 I think. Based upon a 25% reduction is around 200 AC gone. So 34 757-200, 76 737-800, 20 190, Plus around 70 other AC which I would guess be older 320 and 319 if cuts go that much.
Bad situation for the employees.


"a lot people believe trace will return quickly" … trace? what is "trace"???


Sorry typo from trying to use phone. It was travel.
 
NLINK
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:59 am

Just basing this on the rough data, crew costs besides 1 more FA for the pilots is the same.
Fuel burn roughly for the 330-200 over 3,000nm is around 9,500 us gallons. For a 6,000nm trip it is about 20,700 us gallons
Fuel burn roughly for the 777-200ER over 3,000nm is around 11,200 us gallons. For a 6,000nm trip it is about 23,800 us gallons.

Those numbers are roughly based upon older data using RR engines on the 777 and PW engines on 330. No calculations for details on climb and decent plus numbers are on older data which doesn't factor in any improvements.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:19 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Does PHL finally have a chance of seeing the 777 or 787-9 in the near future? (2-3 years)

Also, will the pandemic fast forward the cutting of JFK?



Here goes the JFK bashing again, what has moved to PHL is old news. AA has certain routes from JFK that don't work at PHL. Does anyone see PHL to GRU or EZE ? "Not anytime soon", is the likely answer. JFK will continue with its multiple 777 to LHR daily and in October to other European cities. The EZE & GRU routes plus the 3 class A321T flights to LAX & SFO.

Some here have a complex that JFK owes something to PHL, that for PHL to gain JFK has to give something up. PHL does what it does and that is independent of what AA does at JFK. Why isn't it ever PHL gains at Charlotte or Chicago's expense, its always JFK ?

This reminds me of Eastern and Continental, CAL's gained at EA expense.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 am

With Virgin Atlantic collapsing, British Airways and AA will dominate LHR - JFK even more. They already dominate. AA is not going anywhere. They have a beautiful terminal at JFK and British Airways in London, the most important international destination out of JFK.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:48 am

NLINK wrote:
Just basing this on the rough data, crew costs besides 1 more FA for the pilots is the same.
Fuel burn roughly for the 330-200 over 3,000nm is around 9,500 us gallons. For a 6,000nm trip it is about 20,700 us gallons
Fuel burn roughly for the 777-200ER over 3,000nm is around 11,200 us gallons. For a 6,000nm trip it is about 23,800 us gallons.

Those numbers are roughly based upon older data using RR engines on the 777 and PW engines on 330. No calculations for details on climb and decent plus numbers are on older data which doesn't factor in any improvements.

Thank you for posting the numbers. I figured the A332 had some competitive value still. I personally don't see the B777 coming to PHL because other bases use them more effectively. PHL is very dependent on connections. In my mind it seems easier to fill up A332 with lower fuel cost according to the math here. Of course there is other cost I'm ignoring. Like the cost of one extra flight attendant.
Though I'm not sure if its cheaper to get rid of the A332 to move a few B772 to PHL and CLT.
 
JohanTally
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:01 am

illinicmi wrote:
I think anything parked at ROW has a pretty low chance of returning. Maybe not zero, but low. We KNOW the old 737s, 767s, 333s, and 190s are being retired and they are there. The fact that the 332 is being sent there means that AA is at least contemplating not bringing them back.

They could, and maybe they will if demand spikes. But them being in ROW, combined with the apparent crew familiarization flights with the 772 and 788 mentioned above, to me spell an unlikely return for the 332.

The 772 may be older, but they have a lot of them. And fuel is cheap. And even a 332 won't be very full for a while. And the 332 has at least a little bit of resale value. I think AA won't make a final decision on them for a bit, but if demand isn't back in a year I think they are toast.

AA has been pushing fleet simplification for quite some time now, and this plays right into that. These are not normal times, so normal decisions like "these have more premium seating" really don't matter much at the moment.


AA has ultimately cancelled their entire 2020 transatlantic summer schedule for the LUS hubs which means they will be parking the 332 until this time next year plus or minus a few months. ROW is the cheapest option for long term storage and it offers an environment that is more favorable than any AA maintenance base.
 
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chepos
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AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:11 am

JohanTally wrote:
illinicmi wrote:
I think anything parked at ROW has a pretty low chance of returning. Maybe not zero, but low. We KNOW the old 737s, 767s, 333s, and 190s are being retired and they are there. The fact that the 332 is being sent there means that AA is at least contemplating not bringing them back.

They could, and maybe they will if demand spikes. But them being in ROW, combined with the apparent crew familiarization flights with the 772 and 788 mentioned above, to me spell an unlikely return for the 332.

The 772 may be older, but they have a lot of them. And fuel is cheap. And even a 332 won't be very full for a while. And the 332 has at least a little bit of resale value. I think AA won't make a final decision on them for a bit, but if demand isn't back in a year I think they are toast.

AA has been pushing fleet simplification for quite some time now, and this plays right into that. These are not normal times, so normal decisions like "these have more premium seating" really don't matter much at the moment.


AA has ultimately cancelled their entire 2020 transatlantic summer schedule for the LUS hubs which means they will be parking the 332 until this time next year plus or minus a few months. ROW is the cheapest option for long term storage and it offers an environment that is more favorable than any AA maintenance base.

Where did you see PHL/CLT has been canceled for the duration of the summer season?


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chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:07 am

PHLspecial wrote:
NLINK wrote:
Just basing this on the rough data, crew costs besides 1 more FA for the pilots is the same.
Fuel burn roughly for the 330-200 over 3,000nm is around 9,500 us gallons. For a 6,000nm trip it is about 20,700 us gallons
Fuel burn roughly for the 777-200ER over 3,000nm is around 11,200 us gallons. For a 6,000nm trip it is about 23,800 us gallons.

Those numbers are roughly based upon older data using RR engines on the 777 and PW engines on 330. No calculations for details on climb and decent plus numbers are on older data which doesn't factor in any improvements.

Thank you for posting the numbers. I figured the A332 had some competitive value still. I personally don't see the B777 coming to PHL because other bases use them more effectively. PHL is very dependent on connections. In my mind it seems easier to fill up A332 with lower fuel cost according to the math here. Of course there is other cost I'm ignoring. Like the cost of one extra flight attendant.
Though I'm not sure if its cheaper to get rid of the A332 to move a few B772 to PHL and CLT.


You are all right.

But we also needs to take consideration of revenue side.

A332 has 247 seats and B772 has 272 (273 seats, minus one J seats for pilot rest for long haul) seats. So per seat fuel burn using above number is 38.46/83.81 US gallons and 41.03/87.5 US gallons.

A332 definitely is more efficient in cost. However, B772 does a better job in revenue side. With 16/17 more J seats and more cargo capacity, B772 could generate more revenue especially premium revenue to compensate the fuel burn.

Overall, that is why B772 works better in premium routes like LHR while A332 works better in seasonal routes or secondary routes.
 
JohanTally
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:29 am

chepos wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
illinicmi wrote:
I think anything parked at ROW has a pretty low chance of returning. Maybe not zero, but low. We KNOW the old 737s, 767s, 333s, and 190s are being retired and they are there. The fact that the 332 is being sent there means that AA is at least contemplating not bringing them back.

They could, and maybe they will if demand spikes. But them being in ROW, combined with the apparent crew familiarization flights with the 772 and 788 mentioned above, to me spell an unlikely return for the 332.

The 772 may be older, but they have a lot of them. And fuel is cheap. And even a 332 won't be very full for a while. And the 332 has at least a little bit of resale value. I think AA won't make a final decision on them for a bit, but if demand isn't back in a year I think they are toast.

AA has been pushing fleet simplification for quite some time now, and this plays right into that. These are not normal times, so normal decisions like "these have more premium seating" really don't matter much at the moment.


AA has ultimately cancelled their entire 2020 transatlantic summer schedule for the LUS hubs which means they will be parking the 332 until this time next year plus or minus a few months. ROW is the cheapest option for long term storage and it offers an environment that is more favorable than any AA maintenance base.

Where did you see PHL/CLT has been canceled for the duration of the summer season?


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BCN CDG DUB FCO MAD MUC have been cancelled for the entire summer season with MUC potentially returning late October. LHR and FRA are scheduled to return this June or July but I expect one LHR frequency instead of the normal two and FRA might not operate everyday. These could be operated by the 772 until next year. Currently there is a 772 in CLT which is likely here for familiarization. My point is that the 332 could be parked until S21 without issue instead of meeting it's untimely death.
 
tphuang
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:07 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
With Virgin Atlantic collapsing, British Airways and AA will dominate LHR - JFK even more. They already dominate. AA is not going anywhere. They have a beautiful terminal at JFK and British Airways in London, the most important international destination out of JFK.


If VS goes under and DL can't get any of their slots (which I think is unlikely), DL will still be able to shift slots from other hubs over to JFK. DL will likely keep 8x schedule on JFK-LHR under any circumstance
 
anymaninfc
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:13 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:03 pm

Two A332s returning from El Salvador. N284AY on AAL9608 to ELP, then I'd assume to ROW and N291AY on AAL9606 to PHL. Not sure why 291 is going to PHL instead of ROW.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 636
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:23 pm

anymaninfc wrote:
Two A332s returning from El Salvador. N284AY on AAL9608 to ELP, then I'd assume to ROW and N291AY on AAL9606 to PHL. Not sure why 291 is going to PHL instead of ROW.

PHL does have a hanger to fit A330 to hang out at. I'm not sure if they want to keep one at PHL. They have space for it.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:41 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
anymaninfc wrote:
Two A332s returning from El Salvador. N284AY on AAL9608 to ELP, then I'd assume to ROW and N291AY on AAL9606 to PHL. Not sure why 291 is going to PHL instead of ROW.

PHL does have a hanger to fit A330 to hang out at. I'm not sure if they want to keep one at PHL. They have space for it.


Might want to keep it available for a last minute cargo op
 
JohanTally
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:29 pm

Another hail event in TUL requiring inspections of aircraft according to JonNYC
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:03 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Another hail event in TUL requiring inspections of aircraft according to JonNYC


I'm thinking AA gets a price-break from the TUL airport for all the parking they're doing (making it cheaper than ROW possibly), but at the same time they may regret using TUL given the time of year. These "weather events" could cause an ugly problem.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:18 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
anymaninfc wrote:
Two A332s returning from El Salvador. N284AY on AAL9608 to ELP, then I'd assume to ROW and N291AY on AAL9606 to PHL. Not sure why 291 is going to PHL instead of ROW.

PHL does have a hanger to fit A330 to hang out at. I'm not sure if they want to keep one at PHL. They have space for it.

It’s a line maintenance hangar. Meant for working on planes inside. Airlines don’t use active working hangars to store planes.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:30 pm

JohanTally wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
anymaninfc wrote:
Two A332s returning from El Salvador. N284AY on AAL9608 to ELP, then I'd assume to ROW and N291AY on AAL9606 to PHL. Not sure why 291 is going to PHL instead of ROW.

PHL does have a hanger to fit A330 to hang out at. I'm not sure if they want to keep one at PHL. They have space for it.


Might want to keep it available for a last minute cargo op


Could there be an operational/staffing reason to keep at least one A330 flying to allow pilots to maintain their rating? Especially if the fleet will be carried forward after this crisis. One aircraft doing Int'l cargo flights or domestic turns might support such an approach.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
jholio
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:23 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:40 pm

cathay747 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Another hail event in TUL requiring inspections of aircraft according to JonNYC


I'm thinking AA gets a price-break from the TUL airport for all the parking they're doing (making it cheaper than ROW possibly), but at the same time they may regret using TUL given the time of year. These "weather events" could cause an ugly problem.


Back in the mid 2000's, there was a local improvement bond package being discussed for the city. As part of that package, the city bought American about $12 million new tools for the maintenance shop. This was around the time when AA was considering consolidating maintenance operations in TUL and AFW, but there was a lot of thought in Tulsa that it was the TUL base that was going to get closed. AA has TUL dancing for them because they are the city's largest employer. I would not be surprised if the storage fees are $0 or close to it.

The official rates are here https://www.tulsaairports.com/wp-conten ... -Rates.pdf. $0.40 or $0.10 per 1,000 pounds parked per day, depending on the location.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:56 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
PHL does have a hanger to fit A330 to hang out at. I'm not sure if they want to keep one at PHL. They have space for it.


Might want to keep it available for a last minute cargo op


Could there be an operational/staffing reason to keep at least one A330 flying to allow pilots to maintain their rating? Especially if the fleet will be carried forward after this crisis. One aircraft doing Int'l cargo flights or domestic turns might support such an approach.


No crews will keep current in simulators.
 
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American 767
Posts: 4521
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:42 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:

Might want to keep it available for a last minute cargo op


Could there be an operational/staffing reason to keep at least one A330 flying to allow pilots to maintain their rating? Especially if the fleet will be carried forward after this crisis. One aircraft doing Int'l cargo flights or domestic turns might support such an approach.


No crews will keep current in simulators.


I imagine that pilots currently rated on the A330 are thinking of switching to the 777 or the 787 once the pandemic is gone, some of them already in training to switch to either aircraft, and first officers on the A330 becoming captains on the A319/320/321.
Ben Soriano
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:44 pm

American 767 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:

Could there be an operational/staffing reason to keep at least one A330 flying to allow pilots to maintain their rating? Especially if the fleet will be carried forward after this crisis. One aircraft doing Int'l cargo flights or domestic turns might support such an approach.


No crews will keep current in simulators.


I imagine that pilots currently rated on the A330 are thinking of switching to the 777 or the 787 once the pandemic is gone, some of them already in training to switch to either aircraft, and first officers on the A330 becoming captains on the A319/320/321.

They will fly whatever they can hold seniority wise on the displacement bid. Many will end up being left seat 320. Same on the FO side. I’m sure there are some 330 pilots senior enough to hold 77/78, but between all the 767 and 330 guys, and overall shrinkage, there will be a big shuffle imo. Their early outs will help, but not all 330 CAs will find a widebody CA seat, nor will all the 330 FOs find a widebody FO (or narrowbody CA) seat.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:55 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
PHL does have a hanger to fit A330 to hang out at. I'm not sure if they want to keep one at PHL. They have space for it.


Might want to keep it available for a last minute cargo op


Could there be an operational/staffing reason to keep at least one A330 flying to allow pilots to maintain their rating? Especially if the fleet will be carried forward after this crisis. One aircraft doing Int'l cargo flights or domestic turns might support such an approach.


That aircraft is changing an engine in PHL and then will ferry to ROW per JonNYC
 
Detroit313
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:56 pm

https://sites.google.com/site/newamericanfleet/

This website just updated it says 127 737 have been reconfigured as of now. And 5 321.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 2674
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:24 am

American has sent the final 757 to ROW, but according to this, they're now all retired?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_Yfr7nBvw7/

Nothing has been officially announced yet. Last we heard, they're still slated for retirement in summer 2021, unless AA decided to accelerate it to now.

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