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MIflyer12
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:36 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
AirLawyer wrote:
Which aircraft will replace the 752 in flights to South America?


Ishrion gave some ideas. I think those are plausible. But it's possible that some routes won't be continued immediately following 757 retirements, irrespective of COVID demand drops. Like DL flying JNB-CPT-ATL with an A350 instead of JNB-ATL nonstop with a 77L, sometimes loss of specific capability means a route doesn't work financially or technically. IMHO it will be the same with DL 767 retirements: not everything is going to get up gauged to a 764 or 339. Bogota may present some challenges in the AA network due to elevation, for example.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ishrion gave some ideas. I think those are plausible. But it's possible that some routes won't be continued immediately following 757 retirements, irrespective of COVID demand drops. Like DL flying JNB-CPT-ATL with an A350 instead of JNB-ATL nonstop with a 77L, sometimes loss of specific capability means a route doesn't work financially or technically. IMHO it will be the same with DL 767 retirements: not everything is going to get up gauged to a 764 or 339. Bogota may present some challenges in the AA network due to elevation, for example.


AA made MIA-BOG all-A319 a while ago, so I imagine the 757 retirement won't have any effect on that station. UIO is within A319 range as well, if there are any performance issues with 737s or 321s. MIA-BSB is the one to watch, I think, due to range considerations.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
catdaddy63
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:25 pm

Another MAX movement, the third by my count. Today N350RV positioned ROW-TUL

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KROW/KTUL
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:14 pm

OK so what's with these MAX airplanes being moved from ROW to TUL?
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Sooner787
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:21 pm

cathay747 wrote:
OK so what's with these MAX airplanes being moved from ROW to TUL?


Once the Max's are cleared for RTS , makes sense for AA to have all their Max's in TUL so the required
modifications can be done. IIRC, the bulk of AA's Max's have been stored in TUL since the grounding.

Maybe AA knows something we don't about a RTS date?
 
AAPramugari14
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:32 pm

cathay747 wrote:
OK so what's with these MAX airplanes being moved from ROW to TUL?


I’m guessing this has to do with Oasis 2.0. Probably sending them to TUL to make the changes while there is downtime and to reposition them for RTS.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:29 pm

It would be stupid to not do Kodiak on all the MAX airplanes right now when they are grounded.
 
anymaninfc
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:35 pm

AAs next A321NEO, N418AN, is airborne from BFM to TUL on it's delivery flight. Flt# AAL9822.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:53 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
It would be stupid to not do Kodiak on all the MAX airplanes right now when they are grounded.


Kodiak still costs money.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:59 pm

Ah OK, thanks for the replies. But yeah, does AA know something that's not been publicly said about a RTS of the MAX? Interesting. And wouldn't those MAX's have been delivered with Oasis?
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catdaddy63
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:31 pm

With the Oasis seating, AA basically matched the layout and pitch of the MAX, both seat 172. It's possible that they will Kodiak the fleet before RTS but there are other tasks such as separating wiring bundles and checking and repairing engine nacelles for lightning strike protection and probably other smaller things that will have to be completed. Many of these tasks are probably simpler to accomplish at TUL inside a hangar than outside in the hot summer of ROW.
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:58 pm

catdaddy63 wrote:
With the Oasis seating, AA basically matched the layout and pitch of the MAX, both seat 172. It's possible that they will Kodiak the fleet before RTS but there are other tasks such as separating wiring bundles and checking and repairing engine nacelles for lightning strike protection and probably other smaller things that will have to be completed. Many of these tasks are probably simpler to accomplish at TUL inside a hangar than outside in the hot summer of ROW.


Ah, OK, thanks.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
alpine1989
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:22 pm

Recertification test flights on the Max begin today.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN23Z040

These aircraft have been in storage for over a year. It’s time to green them up in preparation for RTS.
 
Runway28L
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:49 pm

A21N N413AN scheduled to ferry XFW-BGR-PIT-TUL tomorrow for delivery and induction.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9822

A319 N821AW ferrying PIT-ATL for return to service.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9791
 
anymaninfc
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:49 pm

So what happened to N413AN, that caused cancellation of it's delivery flight today? And when is it to be rescheduled?
 
illinicmi
Posts: 41
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:38 pm

Lots of international routes cut:

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

With the apparent even lesser need for widebodies anytime soon, what does this do to the fleet? Seems likely they won't need to bring back the 332s, but with all the 78X planes they have still scheduled to come, might they even now be able to retire the old 772s? I guess my question is how many planes will they need to fly these routes? Assuming they keep taking deliveries, would they have enough to only fly 788/789/773?
 
Swadian
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:20 pm

illinicmi wrote:
Lots of international routes cut:

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

With the apparent even lesser need for widebodies anytime soon, what does this do to the fleet? Seems likely they won't need to bring back the 332s, but with all the 78X planes they have still scheduled to come, might they even now be able to retire the old 772s? I guess my question is how many planes will they need to fly these routes? Assuming they keep taking deliveries, would they have enough to only fly 788/789/773?


There's no 78X coming.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:22 pm

Swadian wrote:
illinicmi wrote:
Lots of international routes cut:

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

With the apparent even lesser need for widebodies anytime soon, what does this do to the fleet? Seems likely they won't need to bring back the 332s, but with all the 78X planes they have still scheduled to come, might they even now be able to retire the old 772s? I guess my question is how many planes will they need to fly these routes? Assuming they keep taking deliveries, would they have enough to only fly 788/789/773?


There's no 78X coming.

He means the -8 or -9. It was generic. There are 787s still on order.
 
DFWandOMA
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:18 pm

Has AA taken delivery of anymore 788s this year? I believe 2 were delivered in April.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:19 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
Has AA taken delivery of anymore 788s this year? I believe 2 were delivered in April.


No, N870AX and N871AY are the only ones that have been delivered. N872AN and N873BB are the next two.

N872AN is actually operating its first test flight right now: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... n#24eda0a7

Image of N872AN (not fully painted): https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 8378940416
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm

What's up with this? http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

JetBlue and American will offer customers more options on Transcon service from New York to the West Coast. American’s popular three-class service on the Airbus A321T will join JetBlue with its Mint premium experience and thoughtful core seating.

The premium experience will also be expanded to the fleet. American intends to operate more dual-class regional aircraft featuring first class beginning next year, providing the premium experience customers in the Northeast prefer.


Is this referring to the new E-175s for DCA?
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:54 am

American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

Image

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:48 am

During one of the town halls the VP of Inflight Service mentioned that 11 321 have been retrofitted so far and that the retrofitting continues and focuses on LUS birds. Could anyone confirm those numbers and if the retrofits are still happening?

Also, anything on if Kodiak for 737 is still going on?
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:50 am

Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?
 
Detroit313
Posts: 545
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:24 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why 19J in long haul?
 
Miamiairport
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:30 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why 19J in long haul?


Is one J seat reserved for pilot rest?
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:43 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why 19J in long haul?


Yes, in many long haul routes, 1 J seat is reserved for pilot rest. So only 19J seats for sale. Sorry I don't know the criteria when the J seat is reserved for pilot. But I am sure some of the AA old timers can tell you.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:05 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why 19J in long haul?


Is one J seat reserved for pilot rest?


The 787 has crew bunks upstairs for the pilots and flight attendants. There is no blocking of seats.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:23 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why do AA 787-8 have only 20 J seats ? That is way too few, they need more as before when they had 28 J. Taking 8 J class seats out for Premium Economy was wrong, they should of course have Y + , but the seats needed to come from the Y cabins. Even AA 787-9 have among the lowest J class seat counts at 30 J class, they need 42 like Qantas.
 
DFWandOMA
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:35 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why 19J in long haul?


Yes, in many long haul routes, 1 J seat is reserved for pilot rest. So only 19J seats for sale. Sorry I don't know the criteria when the J seat is reserved for pilot. But I am sure some of the AA old timers can tell you.


I heard the seat was typically 1D, but I was able to book that seat for a flight next year. I believe this is the 3rd 788 that has the updated J seats. I don't believe any of them have had revenue service yet.
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:39 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

Why 19J in long haul?


Is one J seat reserved for pilot rest?


The 787 has crew bunks upstairs for the pilots and flight attendants. There is no blocking of seats.


Yes there are crew bunks. But from what I understand, there is one J seat reserved for pilot resting due to contractual obligations. I don't know the criteria as I mentioned before. However, the 788 is sold as a 19J flights among many AA routes.
 
mikeyp224
Posts: 58
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:39 pm

jfk777 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why do AA 787-8 have only 20 J seats ? That is way too few, they need more as before when they had 28 J. Taking 8 J class seats out for Premium Economy was wrong, they should of course have Y + , but the seats needed to come from the Y cabins. Even AA 787-9 have among the lowest J class seat counts at 30 J class, they need 42 like Qantas.


They "need more"? What are you basing this need off of? I think it's more a case of you feel like they should have more...
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:39 pm

jfk777 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American's next 787-8, N872AN, has been painted and returned to PAE earlier today:

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 20/photo/1


Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why do AA 787-8 have only 20 J seats ? That is way too few, they need more as before when they had 28 J. Taking 8 J class seats out for Premium Economy was wrong, they should of course have Y + , but the seats needed to come from the Y cabins. Even AA 787-9 have among the lowest J class seat counts at 30 J class, they need 42 like Qantas.


It would seem that AA's revenue management team, or some such group, who have analytics to back-up the decision, disagree with your opinion. :roll:
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Miamiairport
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:06 pm

cathay747 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Any words on the configurations? Still the dreaded 20J (19J in long haul)?


Why do AA 787-8 have only 20 J seats ? That is way too few, they need more as before when they had 28 J. Taking 8 J class seats out for Premium Economy was wrong, they should of course have Y + , but the seats needed to come from the Y cabins. Even AA 787-9 have among the lowest J class seat counts at 30 J class, they need 42 like Qantas.


It would seem that AA's revenue management team, or some such group, who have analytics to back-up the decision, disagree with your opinion. :roll:



Will likely that is what sells and excess can be either given out as SWUs or possibly getting Y/PE paxs to upfare. But I doubt Revenue Management is going to put more J seats in to meet SWU demand.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:12 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:

Is one J seat reserved for pilot rest?


The 787 has crew bunks upstairs for the pilots and flight attendants. There is no blocking of seats.


Yes there are crew bunks. But from what I understand, there is one J seat reserved for pilot resting due to contractual obligations. I don't know the criteria as I mentioned before. However, the 788 is sold as a 19J flights among many AA routes.


No seat is blocked on the 787. They have a huge area upstairs where they can rest and sleep. Why would they need a tiny first class seat when they basically have their own bedroom up there?
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:05 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

The 787 has crew bunks upstairs for the pilots and flight attendants. There is no blocking of seats.


Yes there are crew bunks. But from what I understand, there is one J seat reserved for pilot resting due to contractual obligations. I don't know the criteria as I mentioned before. However, the 788 is sold as a 19J flights among many AA routes.


No seat is blocked on the 787. They have a huge area upstairs where they can rest and sleep. Why would they need a tiny first class seat when they basically have their own bedroom up there?


The pilot bunks above deck have 2 bunks, but only one seat. On flights to Asia, or other long haul routes where there are 4 pilots, a seat in the business class cabin is needed for the second pilot on crew rest.
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:03 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Yes there are crew bunks. But from what I understand, there is one J seat reserved for pilot resting due to contractual obligations. I don't know the criteria as I mentioned before. However, the 788 is sold as a 19J flights among many AA routes.


No seat is blocked on the 787. They have a huge area upstairs where they can rest and sleep. Why would they need a tiny first class seat when they basically have their own bedroom up there?


The pilot bunks above deck have 2 bunks, but only one seat. On flights to Asia, or other long haul routes where there are 4 pilots, a seat in the business class cabin is needed for the second pilot on crew rest.


That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:00 pm

cathay747 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

No seat is blocked on the 787. They have a huge area upstairs where they can rest and sleep. Why would they need a tiny first class seat when they basically have their own bedroom up there?


The pilot bunks above deck have 2 bunks, but only one seat. On flights to Asia, or other long haul routes where there are 4 pilots, a seat in the business class cabin is needed for the second pilot on crew rest.


That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???


It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:12 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:

The pilot bunks above deck have 2 bunks, but only one seat. On flights to Asia, or other long haul routes where there are 4 pilots, a seat in the business class cabin is needed for the second pilot on crew rest.


That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???


It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.


I should clarify that the pilot bunks on the 772 are on the main deck, and do not have any seats at all in their rest area.
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:28 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:

The pilot bunks above deck have 2 bunks, but only one seat. On flights to Asia, or other long haul routes where there are 4 pilots, a seat in the business class cabin is needed for the second pilot on crew rest.


That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???


It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.


Thank you NYCAAer, that is what I thought have happened thus I have mentioned it was contractual requirement. Your explanation fits in what I was told before.

It is 'idiocy' requirement as some others might believe, but that is what pilot union fought for. I believe on many EU-US flights where B788 operated, one J seat is always blocked. Thus it is always reflected in the system as 19J configuration.

The 19J configuration brings a lot of problems. AA complains they can not sell more seats, however, from what I have heard. 19J worked well for leisure heavy summer only routes. Yet, very often, the J seats got sold out weeks in advance (let us say average 2 weeks) and that renders AA's ability to sell last minute super expensive seats for business folks that needed to go to a secondary European city in last minute. Whereas UA and DL never had the problem as their aircraft is premium heavy compare to AA's B788 and A332. Some of the problem is that LAA always have more premium seats in their long haul flights and they know how to sell them. LUS folks never had the expertise to maximise the premium market. When the merger happened, the management was flooded with LUS people, thus the reason to remove 8J seats from B788 and make them 20J.

From a product point of view, it might have matched the demand to a certain degree, but it also restricted AA's pricing power in certain market, and seriously trashed yield. I would be disappointed to learn if AA had kept the new B788 in 20J configuration. LUS folks are great in management of bean counter. But LAA managers knows how to sell international premium seats. AA needs some of the LAA folks back.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:42 pm

cathay747 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

No seat is blocked on the 787. They have a huge area upstairs where they can rest and sleep. Why would they need a tiny first class seat when they basically have their own bedroom up there?


The pilot bunks above deck have 2 bunks, but only one seat. On flights to Asia, or other long haul routes where there are 4 pilots, a seat in the business class cabin is needed for the second pilot on crew rest.


That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???


Glad to know how you feel about the ones that hold your safety in their hands.....Tell me have you ever had dinner in a bed that you can’t sit up in?

Hell imagine how many people we could fit on an airplane if we just put all the passengers on bunk beds like an aircraft carrier.....I’m sure people wouldn’t mind laying on their backs for a 17.5 hour flight
 
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cathay747
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 pm

chonetsao wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???


It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.


Thank you NYCAAer, that is what I thought have happened thus I have mentioned it was contractual requirement. Your explanation fits in what I was told before.

It is 'idiocy' requirement as some others might believe, but that is what pilot union fought for. I believe on many EU-US flights where B788 operated, one J seat is always blocked. Thus it is always reflected in the system as 19J configuration.

The 19J configuration brings a lot of problems. AA complains they can not sell more seats, however, from what I have heard. 19J worked well for leisure heavy summer only routes. Yet, very often, the J seats got sold out weeks in advance (let us say average 2 weeks) and that renders AA's ability to sell last minute super expensive seats for business folks that needed to go to a secondary European city in last minute. Whereas UA and DL never had the problem as their aircraft is premium heavy compare to AA's B788 and A332. Some of the problem is that LAA always have more premium seats in their long haul flights and they know how to sell them. LUS folks never had the expertise to maximise the premium market. When the merger happened, the management was flooded with LUS people, thus the reason to remove 8J seats from B788 and make them 20J.

From a product point of view, it might have matched the demand to a certain degree, but it also restricted AA's pricing power in certain market, and seriously trashed yield. I would be disappointed to learn if AA had kept the new B788 in 20J configuration. LUS folks are great in management of bean counter. But LAA managers knows how to sell international premium seats. AA needs some of the LAA folks back.


Well, if AA caved to ALPA and agreed to block a J seat when there are TWO BUNKS, which IS idiocy, then I now agree with a poster above who stated that they need more J seats, and with your claim above about last-minute-selling & pricing power, but I add the caveat of "only a few more seats" and I mean like no more than one row...compensate for the crew-blocked seat and add 3 more for extra sales...the sales peeps need to beat out the bean counters, which in the end would actually please the bean counters with greater revenue & (hopefully) profits.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Detroit313
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:39 pm

There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 786
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:47 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


We only block off one J seat for the pilots on the 772 to Europe and South America, since the pilot bunks have no seat. The seat is blocked off on the 787 to Asia. Contractually, there has to be one bunk and one seat available for each pilot on crew rest.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2223
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:25 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


I believe the bunk area isn't approved to be occupied on take off or landing.

Most of the time the additional pilot sits in the jumpseat, but it could be taken by a check airman during a line check or a company/FAA observer, who would take priority.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:07 pm

cathay747 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:

It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.


Thank you NYCAAer, that is what I thought have happened thus I have mentioned it was contractual requirement. Your explanation fits in what I was told before.

It is 'idiocy' requirement as some others might believe, but that is what pilot union fought for. I believe on many EU-US flights where B788 operated, one J seat is always blocked. Thus it is always reflected in the system as 19J configuration.

The 19J configuration brings a lot of problems. AA complains they can not sell more seats, however, from what I have heard. 19J worked well for leisure heavy summer only routes. Yet, very often, the J seats got sold out weeks in advance (let us say average 2 weeks) and that renders AA's ability to sell last minute super expensive seats for business folks that needed to go to a secondary European city in last minute. Whereas UA and DL never had the problem as their aircraft is premium heavy compare to AA's B788 and A332. Some of the problem is that LAA always have more premium seats in their long haul flights and they know how to sell them. LUS folks never had the expertise to maximise the premium market. When the merger happened, the management was flooded with LUS people, thus the reason to remove 8J seats from B788 and make them 20J.

From a product point of view, it might have matched the demand to a certain degree, but it also restricted AA's pricing power in certain market, and seriously trashed yield. I would be disappointed to learn if AA had kept the new B788 in 20J configuration. LUS folks are great in management of bean counter. But LAA managers knows how to sell international premium seats. AA needs some of the LAA folks back.


Well, if AA caved to ALPA and agreed to block a J seat when there are TWO BUNKS, which IS idiocy, then I now agree with a poster above who stated that they need more J seats, and with your claim above about last-minute-selling & pricing power, but I add the caveat of "only a few more seats" and I mean like no more than one row...compensate for the crew-blocked seat and add 3 more for extra sales...the sales peeps need to beat out the bean counters, which in the end would actually please the bean counters with greater revenue & (hopefully) profits.


There are 2 bunks that lie flat with a ceiling just above your head. You cannot sit up. There is only 1 chair. How do you propose 2 pilots use 1 chair. You can force one of the pilots to lie down flat and not sit up for 7 hours.

By the way ALPA doesn’t represent AA pilots.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:10 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


I believe the bunk area isn't approved to be occupied on take off or landing.

Most of the time the additional pilot sits in the jumpseat, but it could be taken by a check airman during a line check or a company/FAA observer, who would take priority.


At United The bunk room seat can be occupied but not the Bunk itself. So we can use that seat up there for a JS if we need it the door to the bunk area must be secured open.

If the FAA or LCA is onboard for a line check they MUST be given a seat in the back. The other pilot can occupy that seat during takeoff and landing.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 786
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:21 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


I believe the bunk area isn't approved to be occupied on take off or landing.

Most of the time the additional pilot sits in the jumpseat, but it could be taken by a check airman during a line check or a company/FAA observer, who would take priority.


For takeoff and landing, all pilots who are working crew must be in the flight deck. On the 787, the door to the pilot bunks can be latched open, and a deadheading or non-revving pilot can occupy the seat in the bunks for taxi, takeoff and landing, with the approval of the Captain. On the 77W, the pilot bunks upstairs cannot be occupied during taxi, takeoff and landing. The same is true for the flight attendant bunks on the 77W.

To be honest, as a working flight attendant and purser, I don’t begrudge the pilots having a seat and a bunk on a long haul flight. I like my pilots well-rested, fed and alert!
 
chonetsao
Posts: 656
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:24 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


AA certainly do block one J seats on flights to Europe on B788. Majority of AA B788 operated US-EU flights are showing as 19J in capacity.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:14 pm

A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!

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