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cathay747
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 pm

chonetsao wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

That doesn't make any sense...if there are 2 bunks, don't tell me AA was forced by some idiocy to have to block a J-seat so if BOTH pilots on rest break wanted to sit vs. lay down they can???


It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.


Thank you NYCAAer, that is what I thought have happened thus I have mentioned it was contractual requirement. Your explanation fits in what I was told before.

It is 'idiocy' requirement as some others might believe, but that is what pilot union fought for. I believe on many EU-US flights where B788 operated, one J seat is always blocked. Thus it is always reflected in the system as 19J configuration.

The 19J configuration brings a lot of problems. AA complains they can not sell more seats, however, from what I have heard. 19J worked well for leisure heavy summer only routes. Yet, very often, the J seats got sold out weeks in advance (let us say average 2 weeks) and that renders AA's ability to sell last minute super expensive seats for business folks that needed to go to a secondary European city in last minute. Whereas UA and DL never had the problem as their aircraft is premium heavy compare to AA's B788 and A332. Some of the problem is that LAA always have more premium seats in their long haul flights and they know how to sell them. LUS folks never had the expertise to maximise the premium market. When the merger happened, the management was flooded with LUS people, thus the reason to remove 8J seats from B788 and make them 20J.

From a product point of view, it might have matched the demand to a certain degree, but it also restricted AA's pricing power in certain market, and seriously trashed yield. I would be disappointed to learn if AA had kept the new B788 in 20J configuration. LUS folks are great in management of bean counter. But LAA managers knows how to sell international premium seats. AA needs some of the LAA folks back.


Well, if AA caved to ALPA and agreed to block a J seat when there are TWO BUNKS, which IS idiocy, then I now agree with a poster above who stated that they need more J seats, and with your claim above about last-minute-selling & pricing power, but I add the caveat of "only a few more seats" and I mean like no more than one row...compensate for the crew-blocked seat and add 3 more for extra sales...the sales peeps need to beat out the bean counters, which in the end would actually please the bean counters with greater revenue & (hopefully) profits.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Detroit313
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:39 pm

There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:47 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


We only block off one J seat for the pilots on the 772 to Europe and South America, since the pilot bunks have no seat. The seat is blocked off on the 787 to Asia. Contractually, there has to be one bunk and one seat available for each pilot on crew rest.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:25 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


I believe the bunk area isn't approved to be occupied on take off or landing.

Most of the time the additional pilot sits in the jumpseat, but it could be taken by a check airman during a line check or a company/FAA observer, who would take priority.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:07 pm

cathay747 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:

It’s contractual with APA. The power of the union.

We do the same thing on the 772. The pilots have 2 bunks, but one J seat will be blocked off for them on flights with 3 pilots to Europe and South America, and 2 J seats blocked off for the pilots on flights to Asia.

It’s not an issue on the 77W, where there are 2 bunks and 2 seats for the pilots above deck.


Thank you NYCAAer, that is what I thought have happened thus I have mentioned it was contractual requirement. Your explanation fits in what I was told before.

It is 'idiocy' requirement as some others might believe, but that is what pilot union fought for. I believe on many EU-US flights where B788 operated, one J seat is always blocked. Thus it is always reflected in the system as 19J configuration.

The 19J configuration brings a lot of problems. AA complains they can not sell more seats, however, from what I have heard. 19J worked well for leisure heavy summer only routes. Yet, very often, the J seats got sold out weeks in advance (let us say average 2 weeks) and that renders AA's ability to sell last minute super expensive seats for business folks that needed to go to a secondary European city in last minute. Whereas UA and DL never had the problem as their aircraft is premium heavy compare to AA's B788 and A332. Some of the problem is that LAA always have more premium seats in their long haul flights and they know how to sell them. LUS folks never had the expertise to maximise the premium market. When the merger happened, the management was flooded with LUS people, thus the reason to remove 8J seats from B788 and make them 20J.

From a product point of view, it might have matched the demand to a certain degree, but it also restricted AA's pricing power in certain market, and seriously trashed yield. I would be disappointed to learn if AA had kept the new B788 in 20J configuration. LUS folks are great in management of bean counter. But LAA managers knows how to sell international premium seats. AA needs some of the LAA folks back.


Well, if AA caved to ALPA and agreed to block a J seat when there are TWO BUNKS, which IS idiocy, then I now agree with a poster above who stated that they need more J seats, and with your claim above about last-minute-selling & pricing power, but I add the caveat of "only a few more seats" and I mean like no more than one row...compensate for the crew-blocked seat and add 3 more for extra sales...the sales peeps need to beat out the bean counters, which in the end would actually please the bean counters with greater revenue & (hopefully) profits.


There are 2 bunks that lie flat with a ceiling just above your head. You cannot sit up. There is only 1 chair. How do you propose 2 pilots use 1 chair. You can force one of the pilots to lie down flat and not sit up for 7 hours.

By the way ALPA doesn’t represent AA pilots.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:10 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


I believe the bunk area isn't approved to be occupied on take off or landing.

Most of the time the additional pilot sits in the jumpseat, but it could be taken by a check airman during a line check or a company/FAA observer, who would take priority.


At United The bunk room seat can be occupied but not the Bunk itself. So we can use that seat up there for a JS if we need it the door to the bunk area must be secured open.

If the FAA or LCA is onboard for a line check they MUST be given a seat in the back. The other pilot can occupy that seat during takeoff and landing.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:21 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


I believe the bunk area isn't approved to be occupied on take off or landing.

Most of the time the additional pilot sits in the jumpseat, but it could be taken by a check airman during a line check or a company/FAA observer, who would take priority.


For takeoff and landing, all pilots who are working crew must be in the flight deck. On the 787, the door to the pilot bunks can be latched open, and a deadheading or non-revving pilot can occupy the seat in the bunks for taxi, takeoff and landing, with the approval of the Captain. On the 77W, the pilot bunks upstairs cannot be occupied during taxi, takeoff and landing. The same is true for the flight attendant bunks on the 77W.

To be honest, as a working flight attendant and purser, I don’t begrudge the pilots having a seat and a bunk on a long haul flight. I like my pilots well-rested, fed and alert!
 
chonetsao
Posts: 765
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:24 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
There is no blocked seat on the 787 for pilots on the way to Europe. There is only 1 person on break at a time and 2 in the cockpit. 1 person has the entire bunk area just for them. Why would they need a seat in the cabin?


AA certainly do block one J seats on flights to Europe on B788. Majority of AA B788 operated US-EU flights are showing as 19J in capacity.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1713
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:14 pm

A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 pm

It’s a heritage livery and it’s the only aircraft in the fleet with the polished aluminum livery. Registration is N921NN.
 
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Polot
Posts: 11045
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:23 pm

It’s a heritage plane. All AA planes are painted in their normal livery or are heritage liveries. There are no more bare painted planes left waiting for repaint.
 
bpat777
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:22 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


It's N921NN, the AA silver bird 738.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:31 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


It’s a heritage livery plane.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2017/12/14/ame ... g-737-800/

That one is N921NN.

The other heritage planes are AstroJet (N905NN), TWA (N915NN), Reno Air (N916NN), AirCal (N917NN), PSA (N742PS), and US Airways (N578UW).
 
JohanTally
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:37 pm

USAirKid wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


It’s a heritage livery plane.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2017/12/14/ame ... g-737-800/

That one is N921NN.

The other heritage planes are AstroJet (N905NN), TWA (N915NN), Reno Air (N916NN), AirCal (N917NN), PSA (N742PS), and US Airways (N578UW).


Don't forget N744P in Piedmont blue N745VJ in Allegheny livery and N838AW in America West colors
 
mentaisupa
Posts: 16
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Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:25 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


Should be noted in the comments column on this site: https://sites.google.com/site/newameric ... /738-oasis
 
OB1504
Posts: 3993
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Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:28 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


That was N921NN (ship 3KG). It was the last aircraft delivered in the 1967 livery and has been kept as a heritage jet.

 
USAirKid
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 am

Anyone else get the feeling that we’ve all been watching Airplane! Too much since we’ve answered the question about N921NN many many times already?
 
airzona11
Posts: 1799
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:28 am

Are 788s getting a new config?
 
CriticalPoint
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:36 am

USAirKid wrote:
Anyone else get the feeling that we’ve all been watching Airplane! Too much since we’ve answered the question about N921NN many many times already?


It’s a shiny airplane with a heritage paint job....but that’s not important right now
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:52 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!

There is only one it’s a heritage livery.
 
747fan
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:34 pm

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1289346948596523008

If there's any truth behind this rumor (and he's been proven right a number of times in the past) then I would suspect he's likely referring to the 772's. Most of the 772's are still in storage and frankly don't have much good use until international travel considerably picks back up, especially with several new 788 deliveries coming up.
 
Boof02671
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:48 pm

772s will be used in CLT as they are opening up a crew base and have already brought one here for about a month for maintenance and ramp training and gate fitting.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:40 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
772s will be used in CLT as they are opening up a crew base and have already brought one here for about a month for maintenance and ramp training and gate fitting.


You are correct about the CLT 77E crew base but at this point it seems unlikely there will be any flights to Europe from CLT the rest of this year. They have already cancelled until late October but that will probably be extended especially if the 77Es are being stored. It's possible the E140s get stored with the planned reductions at Envoy in October.
 
Detroit313
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:17 pm

Anyone has any updates on Oasis retrofits? How many 737 and 321 have been done?
 
danipawa
Posts: 500
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:08 am

Airbus A321 -253NX 9584 N420AN American Airlines delivery 29jul20 BFM-TUL ex F-WZMG
Airbus A321 -253NX 10017 N419AN American Airlines delivery 31jul20 BFM-TUL ex F-WZMJ
 
User avatar
res77W
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:59 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:36 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


N921NN was the last 738 delivered in the previous livery, and was retained as a heritage jet.

-Rowen
 
usairways85
Posts: 4183
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:16 pm

Not sure if this is accurate.
TUL-PHL 789
8/4 Dep. 2:38pm
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KPHL
 
vlad1971
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:48 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:12 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Not sure if this is accurate.
TUL-PHL 789
8/4 Dep. 2:38pm
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KPHL

This ship will fly AA9715/16 on 05-06th of August PHL-AMS-PHL . Cargo only flight though .
 
anymaninfc
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:13 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:54 pm

AA's third new B787-8, N872AN, is showing as ready for delivery. New acft N873BB has returned from painting at Portland.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:13 pm

And two 738 Max’s ferried from ROS-TUL
 
N649DL
Posts: 1009
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Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:52 pm

OB1504 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


That was N921NN (ship 3KG). It was the last aircraft delivered in the 1967 livery and has been kept as a heritage jet.



Would it kill AA to give us a bare metal USAir scheme and/or late 1990s USAIRWAYS Steve Wolf heritage jets as well? And if we really wanna get technical, they should add a Trump Shuttle livery too. ;-)
 
UA748i
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:12 am

N649DL wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
A couple weeks ago in STT I saw an AA 738 take off that was still in the polished aluminum paint scheme. I didn’t realize there were still some left not painted in the current paint scheme. Was this a special heritage plane or are there more than one polished aluminum AA 737 still flying?

Also - if anyone knows the registrations of the plane(s) I’d be grateful!


That was N921NN (ship 3KG). It was the last aircraft delivered in the 1967 livery and has been kept as a heritage jet.



Would it kill AA to give us a bare metal USAir scheme and/or late 1990s USAIRWAYS Steve Wolf heritage jets as well? And if we really wanna get technical, they should add a Trump Shuttle livery too. ;-)


A Trump Shuttle heritage would be sweet. I really like the livery that was designed for it.

That being said, never gonna happen for obvious reasons.

-----

On a related note, an Eagle heritage on an E175 is something Ive always wanted to pitch to corporate.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:42 am

UA748i wrote:
N649DL wrote:
OB1504 wrote:

That was N921NN (ship 3KG). It was the last aircraft delivered in the 1967 livery and has been kept as a heritage jet.



Would it kill AA to give us a bare metal USAir scheme and/or late 1990s USAIRWAYS Steve Wolf heritage jets as well? And if we really wanna get technical, they should add a Trump Shuttle livery too. ;-)


A Trump Shuttle heritage would be sweet. I really like the livery that was designed for it.

That being said, never gonna happen for obvious reasons.

-----

On a related note, an Eagle heritage on an E175 is something Ive always wanted to pitch to corporate.

US never owned the Trump Shutle, they managed it for Citibank and once it was bought the name was changed. And a big he’ll no
 
N649DL
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:40 am

Boof02671 wrote:
UA748i wrote:
N649DL wrote:

Would it kill AA to give us a bare metal USAir scheme and/or late 1990s USAIRWAYS Steve Wolf heritage jets as well? And if we really wanna get technical, they should add a Trump Shuttle livery too. ;-)


A Trump Shuttle heritage would be sweet. I really like the livery that was designed for it.

That being said, never gonna happen for obvious reasons.

-----

On a related note, an Eagle heritage on an E175 is something Ive always wanted to pitch to corporate.

US never owned the Trump Shutle, they managed it for Citibank and once it was bought the name was changed. And a big he’ll no


New AF1 color looks exactly like Trump Shuttle anyways so we'll get it sooner or later lol. And it actually looks really nice.
 
UA748i
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:59 am

N649DL wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
UA748i wrote:

A Trump Shuttle heritage would be sweet. I really like the livery that was designed for it.

That being said, never gonna happen for obvious reasons.

-----

On a related note, an Eagle heritage on an E175 is something Ive always wanted to pitch to corporate.

US never owned the Trump Shutle, they managed it for Citibank and once it was bought the name was changed. And a big he’ll no


New AF1 color looks exactly like Trump Shuttle anyways so we'll get it sooner or later lol. And it actually looks really nice.


It's actually grown on me. I think the new VC-25Bs will be a very executive and handsome looking aircraft.

But no, a Trump AA heritage jet will never happen.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:50 am

N649DL wrote:
Would it kill AA to give us a bare metal USAir scheme and/or late 1990s USAIRWAYS Steve Wolf heritage jets as well? And if we really wanna get technical, they should add a Trump Shuttle livery too. ;-)


All the heritage liveries on the PM US side are on NB Airbusses, since they started them before the merger with AA. I don’t think they want to stray from that
 
USAirKid
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:54 am

Boof02671 wrote:
US never owned the Trump Shutle, they managed it for Citibank and once it was bought the name was changed. And a big he’ll no


I’m pretty sure that for a while US Air owned the shuttle jointly the banks who financed it. (Citibank was the lead of a syndicated loan to Trump Shuttle.) They had an option to buy the banks out and eventually did. Although AFAIK Shuttle Inc survived as a subsidiary of US Air/US Air Group for quite sometime.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:53 am

USAirKid wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
US never owned the Trump Shutle, they managed it for Citibank and once it was bought the name was changed. And a big he’ll no


I’m pretty sure that for a while US Air owned the shuttle jointly the banks who financed it. (Citibank was the lead of a syndicated loan to Trump Shuttle.) They had an option to buy the banks out and eventually did. Although AFAIK Shuttle Inc survived as a subsidiary of US Air/US Air Group for quite sometime.

Nope Trump defaulted, Citibank hired US to manage it, and had an option to buy it which they did after a specific time period. It was never owned jointly. I was working for US and was an IAM rep and after the Shuttle was merged their mechanics sued the IAM wanting their Eastern seniority.


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:34 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And two 738 Max’s ferried from ROS-TUL


Why though?
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:38 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And two 738 Max’s ferried from ROS-TUL


Why though?


Boeing and the FAA have approved the modifications that need to be made to make the planes airworthy. aa appears to be doing that work in TUL. United has been flying MAXs to MCO for the work....takes about 2 weeks per plane.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA 737’s still in bare metal scheme

Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:24 pm

USAirKid wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Would it kill AA to give us a bare metal USAir scheme and/or late 1990s USAIRWAYS Steve Wolf heritage jets as well? And if we really wanna get technical, they should add a Trump Shuttle livery too. ;-)


All the heritage liveries on the PM US side are on NB Airbusses, since they started them before the merger with AA. I don’t think they want to stray from that


Understood it’s also tied back to original registration numbers as well, but for instance Piedmont never operated the 319, TWA / AirCal / Reno Air never had 738 and are all current AA Heritage Schemes. They could easily do a Steve Wolf US scheme on an Airbus but a bare metal USAir early 1990s scheme could only be done on a 738 (Bare metal finish can’t be done on Airbuses)
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:07 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And two 738 Max’s ferried from ROS-TUL


Why though?


Boeing and the FAA have approved the modifications that need to be made to make the planes airworthy. aa appears to be doing that work in TUL. United has been flying MAXs to MCO for the work....takes about 2 weeks per plane.

The FAA hasn’t approved the fixes yet. The 45 day comment period is still open. And AA will not be doing the work nor will UA, Boeing itself is doing it and they’ve hired a bunch of retired former airline mechanics on a temporary basis.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:13 am

Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:

Why though?


Boeing and the FAA have approved the modifications that need to be made to make the planes airworthy. aa appears to be doing that work in TUL. United has been flying MAXs to MCO for the work....takes about 2 weeks per plane.

The FAA hasn’t approved the fixes yet. The 45 day comment period is still open. And AA will not be doing the work nor will UA, Boeing itself is doing it and they’ve hired a bunch of retired former airline mechanics on a temporary basis.


Weird because United put out an article on the company website and said MCO mechanics are completing the work.

I don’t know what AA is doing but the UA work appears to be in house.....I’m sure Boeing is on site in MCO to oversee.
 
klsken
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:30 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:28 am

This may have already been mentioned but it looks like a 777-200 will be making a daily CLT-MIA starting Sept 10th
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:51 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Boeing and the FAA have approved the modifications that need to be made to make the planes airworthy. aa appears to be doing that work in TUL. United has been flying MAXs to MCO for the work....takes about 2 weeks per plane.

The FAA hasn’t approved the fixes yet. The 45 day comment period is still open. And AA will not be doing the work nor will UA, Boeing itself is doing it and they’ve hired a bunch of retired former airline mechanics on a temporary basis.


Weird because United put out an article on the company website and said MCO mechanics are completing the work.

I don’t know what AA is doing but the UA work appears to be in house.....I’m sure Boeing is on site in MCO to oversee.

There is no work to be completed, the FAA hasn’t approved any plan to fix the Max, no ADs have been issued, and as I said the comment period is still open. They can be performing routine maintenance, but no fix to the MCAS system has been approved.

“FAA Updates on Boeing 737 MAX8/3/2020
Boeing 737 MAX AD NPRM Now Available for Early Public Review
Today, the FAA sent a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) for a Boeing 737 MAX airworthiness directive (AD) (PDF) to the Office of the Federal Register for publication. The NPRM proposes mandating a number of design changes to address an identified unsafe condition. When the NPRM publishes in the Federal Register, a 45 day public comment period will begin. The FAA is posting the NPRM on its website today to enable the public to begin review early.
The FAA will also be placing the Preliminary Summary of the FAA’s Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF) in the docket to assist with the review of the proposed AD.“

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

Summary report

https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachme ... ry-v-1.pdf
 
JohanTally
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:14 am

Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:

Why though?


Boeing and the FAA have approved the modifications that need to be made to make the planes airworthy. aa appears to be doing that work in TUL. United has been flying MAXs to MCO for the work....takes about 2 weeks per plane.

The FAA hasn’t approved the fixes yet. The 45 day comment period is still open. And AA will not be doing the work nor will UA, Boeing itself is doing it and they’ve hired a bunch of retired former airline mechanics on a temporary basis.


By you stating that Boeing has hired a bunch of retired mechanics to implement fixes seems that they believe it's close to approval and airlines moving their Max's to a in house maintenance facility would also solidify that. Most airlines that have taken delivery of the Max will be eager to put them back in the air because they should provide cost savings at a time when cash is king. Airlines would much rather have older aircraft sitting idle in the desert.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:25 am

Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
The FAA hasn’t approved the fixes yet. The 45 day comment period is still open. And AA will not be doing the work nor will UA, Boeing itself is doing it and they’ve hired a bunch of retired former airline mechanics on a temporary basis.


Weird because United put out an article on the company website and said MCO mechanics are completing the work.

I don’t know what AA is doing but the UA work appears to be in house.....I’m sure Boeing is on site in MCO to oversee.

There is no work to be completed, the FAA hasn’t approved any plan to fix the Max, no ADs have been issued, and as I said the comment period is still open. They can be performing routine maintenance, but no fix to the MCAS system has been approved.

“FAA Updates on Boeing 737 MAX8/3/2020
Boeing 737 MAX AD NPRM Now Available for Early Public Review
Today, the FAA sent a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) for a Boeing 737 MAX airworthiness directive (AD) (PDF) to the Office of the Federal Register for publication. The NPRM proposes mandating a number of design changes to address an identified unsafe condition. When the NPRM publishes in the Federal Register, a 45 day public comment period will begin. The FAA is posting the NPRM on its website today to enable the public to begin review early.
The FAA will also be placing the Preliminary Summary of the FAA’s Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF) in the docket to assist with the review of the proposed AD.“

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

Summary report

https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachme ... ry-v-1.pdf



Yeah well United Airlines and MCO maintenance disagree with your expert analysis of maintenance operation. Still no mention of Boeing mechanics doing the work just a big shout out to MCO mechanics and pictures of them doing the work.

I’ll let this topic get back to AA fleets. Have a good one.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:32 am

JohanTally wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Boeing and the FAA have approved the modifications that need to be made to make the planes airworthy. aa appears to be doing that work in TUL. United has been flying MAXs to MCO for the work....takes about 2 weeks per plane.

The FAA hasn’t approved the fixes yet. The 45 day comment period is still open. And AA will not be doing the work nor will UA, Boeing itself is doing it and they’ve hired a bunch of retired former airline mechanics on a temporary basis.


By you stating that Boeing has hired a bunch of retired mechanics to implement fixes seems that they believe it's close to approval and airlines moving their Max's to a in house maintenance facility would also solidify that. Most airlines that have taken delivery of the Max will be eager to put them back in the air because they should provide cost savings at a time when cash is king. Airlines would much rather have older aircraft sitting idle in the desert.

They had their guys hired for over six months and longer. They are keeping the ones Boeing had stored at Moses Lake. The comment period isn’t even over yet. AA’s last internal update they were hoping for a December RTS.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:36 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Weird because United put out an article on the company website and said MCO mechanics are completing the work.

I don’t know what AA is doing but the UA work appears to be in house.....I’m sure Boeing is on site in MCO to oversee.

There is no work to be completed, the FAA hasn’t approved any plan to fix the Max, no ADs have been issued, and as I said the comment period is still open. They can be performing routine maintenance, but no fix to the MCAS system has been approved.

“FAA Updates on Boeing 737 MAX8/3/2020
Boeing 737 MAX AD NPRM Now Available for Early Public Review
Today, the FAA sent a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) for a Boeing 737 MAX airworthiness directive (AD) (PDF) to the Office of the Federal Register for publication. The NPRM proposes mandating a number of design changes to address an identified unsafe condition. When the NPRM publishes in the Federal Register, a 45 day public comment period will begin. The FAA is posting the NPRM on its website today to enable the public to begin review early.
The FAA will also be placing the Preliminary Summary of the FAA’s Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF) in the docket to assist with the review of the proposed AD.“

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

Summary report

https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachme ... ry-v-1.pdf



Yeah well United Airlines and MCO maintenance disagree with your expert analysis of maintenance operation. Still no mention of Boeing mechanics doing the work just a big shout out to MCO mechanics and pictures of them doing the work.

I’ll let this topic get back to AA fleets. Have a good one.

Apparently you don’t grasp how it works. No work can be done by anyone as there are NO ADs and no approved fixes. I don’t understand why you can’t comprehend you can’t fix a plane that had no approved procedures nor an AD.


https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... 2019-9?amp
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:41 am

Boof02671 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
There is no work to be completed, the FAA hasn’t approved any plan to fix the Max, no ADs have been issued, and as I said the comment period is still open. They can be performing routine maintenance, but no fix to the MCAS system has been approved.

“FAA Updates on Boeing 737 MAX8/3/2020
Boeing 737 MAX AD NPRM Now Available for Early Public Review
Today, the FAA sent a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) for a Boeing 737 MAX airworthiness directive (AD) (PDF) to the Office of the Federal Register for publication. The NPRM proposes mandating a number of design changes to address an identified unsafe condition. When the NPRM publishes in the Federal Register, a 45 day public comment period will begin. The FAA is posting the NPRM on its website today to enable the public to begin review early.
The FAA will also be placing the Preliminary Summary of the FAA’s Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF) in the docket to assist with the review of the proposed AD.“

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

Summary report

https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachme ... ry-v-1.pdf



Yeah well United Airlines and MCO maintenance disagree with your expert analysis of maintenance operation. Still no mention of Boeing mechanics doing the work just a big shout out to MCO mechanics and pictures of them doing the work.

I’ll let this topic get back to AA fleets. Have a good one.

Apparently you don’t grasp how it works. No work can be done by anyone as there are NO ADs and no approved fixes. I don’t understand why you can’t comprehend you can’t fix a plane that had no approved procedures nor an AD.


https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... 2019-9?amp


Here you go direct quote from the internal united article:

“Phase One occurs in MCO’s South Hangar and takes four to five days. One of the biggest parts of Phase One is to address an issue that has received a lot of coverage. The Stabilizer Trim System Arm Circuit Wire Separation modification re-routes existing wiring and installs replacement wiring to create physical separation of the Stabilizer Arm Circuit and the Stabilizer Control Circuit in case there is a wiring failure.”

So what work are they doing? I don’t know what AA is doing but UA is getting the MAXs ready.

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