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Polot
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:02 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.

I don’t think they will order the A350 either, but mostly because they already had them on order (fun fact: AA was to be the first US operator!) but canceled them for more 787s instead.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
MD80MKE wrote:
All are being scrapped or only the older ones? Also are you sure its 332s not older 333s?

None of them are scrapped. They are removing cabin stuff etc and selling parts. The 333s were already stripped of certain parts.


The A333's are older than the A332's, delivered between 1999 and 2002 to US Airways. The A332s were delivered from 2009 to 2014.

I know I worked them and made a servicing video when we got them. Doesn’t mean they can’t strip certain rotables to sell. They already removed them from the 333s months ago to sell.
 
MD80MKE
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:16 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
MD80MKE wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
332s are already being stripped of parts today at ROS.

All are being scrapped or only the older ones? Also are you sure its 332s not older 333s?

None of them are scrapped. They are removing cabin stuff etc and selling parts. The 333s were already stripped of certain parts.

Ah gotcha, by stripped for parts I thought you meant scrapping which would've been kinda shocking for those 332s that are mostly under 10 years old.
 
rexchase12
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:14 am

Boof02671 wrote:
rexchase12 wrote:
All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?

Northwest had 747-200 Cargo planes, American, United, Pan Am, others did but don’t remember them all


Sorry, misunderstood, I thought you were referring to A330's only.
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:33 am

Antarius wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.


They also retired the 707, 727, 737 classic, 747, 757, 767. So clearly they don't like Boeing airplanes also.
They also retired the MD-11, DC-10, MD-80. So clearly they don't like McDonnell Douglas airplanes also.
They also retired the L188 Electra. So clearly they don't like Lockheed airplanes also.

:roll:


The truth is Legacy AA only had one type of Airbus jets, which was A300. And there were only 35 of them. After 2009 there were no airbus fleet in LAA until the merger of AA/US. Even with AA/US merger, the airbus widebodies in PMAA was only 24 in numbers compares with over 40 B767s and B777s. So Ziyulu has a point here. And PMAA chose B787s to replace A330s considering its management are largely from LUS. That supports Ziyulu's hypothesis.

On a side note, your argument is not bad by using the similar logic of the OP. I am not disputing your logic. It is just that I read Ziyulu's note in a different way.
 
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Channex757
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:26 am

As AA has previously sold aircraft to DHL and its suppliers (like ASL) for freighter conversion, maybe they will come in and kick the tyres on this batch. Well cared for examples, no need for a cabin etc....
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:46 pm

Channex757 wrote:
As AA has previously sold aircraft to DHL and its suppliers (like ASL) for freighter conversion, maybe they will come in and kick the tyres on this batch. Well cared for examples, no need for a cabin etc....

AA sold the 767s to Jetran who sold them to CAM who then placed them for Amazon
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:55 pm

rexchase12 wrote:
All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?

The now big 3 all had some sort of cargo divisions years ago.
United had a fleet of DC * cargo jets
AA had 707's
and DL had a Lockheed model of some sort in the 70's.

As best I recall, AA got out of the cargo (freighter ) business when the DC 10's came on in the early- mid 70's.
UA held on with the DC 8's into the early 80's maybe? two tragic accidents in the later years. ( DTW and SLC)
and the oddball DL Lockheeds I think went right after the 1973 fuel crises.

I think TWA had a few all cargo 707s thru the 60's and maybe upto 1973 or so also...mostly replaced by L1011 belly capacity.
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:56 pm

opps..Typo..UA had DC8 "jet traders" a DC8-54
 
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Polot
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:58 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
rexchase12 wrote:
All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?

The now big 3 all had some sort of cargo divisions years ago.
United had a fleet of DC * cargo jets
AA had 707's
and DL had a Lockheed model of some sort in the 70's.

As best I recall, AA got out of the cargo (freighter ) business when the DC 10's came on in the early- mid 70's.
UA held on with the DC 8's into the early 80's maybe? two tragic accidents in the later years. ( DTW and SLC)
and the oddball DL Lockheeds I think went right after the 1973 fuel crises.

I think TWA had a few all cargo 707s thru the 60's and maybe upto 1973 or so also...mostly replaced by L1011 belly capacity.

United also had some cargo DC-10s in the late 90s through some point in 2000 or 2001.

 
Tan Flyr
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:16 pm

Thanks Polot..I had totally forgot about those..I think it was only 3 or 4 frames..maybe 5?
 
FX1816
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:56 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.


They also retired the 707, 727, 737 classic, 747, 757, 767. So clearly they don't like Boeing airplanes also.
They also retired the MD-11, DC-10, MD-80. So clearly they don't like McDonnell Douglas airplanes also.
They also retired the L188 Electra. So clearly they don't like Lockheed airplanes also.

:roll:


The truth is Legacy AA only had one type of Airbus jets, which was A300. And there were only 35 of them. After 2009 there were no airbus fleet in LAA until the merger of AA/US. Even with AA/US merger, the airbus widebodies in PMAA was only 24 in numbers compares with over 40 B767s and B777s. So Ziyulu has a point here. And PMAA chose B787s to replace A330s considering its management are largely from LUS. That supports Ziyulu's hypothesis.

On a side note, your argument is not bad by using the similar logic of the OP. I am not disputing your logic. It is just that I read Ziyulu's note in a different way.


Not completely true, AA had a large order for the A319's and A321's that was announced before the merger with US. Now the first delivery, I believe, was after the merger announcement but AA definitely had A319's and A321's, both with Sharklets that were never LUS aircraft.
 
FX1816
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:01 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
rexchase12 wrote:
All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?

The now big 3 all had some sort of cargo divisions years ago.
United had a fleet of DC * cargo jets
AA had 707's
and DL had a Lockheed model of some sort in the 70's.

As best I recall, AA got out of the cargo (freighter ) business when the DC 10's came on in the early- mid 70's.
UA held on with the DC 8's into the early 80's maybe? two tragic accidents in the later years. ( DTW and SLC)
and the oddball DL Lockheeds I think went right after the 1973 fuel crises.

I think TWA had a few all cargo 707s thru the 60's and maybe upto 1973 or so also...mostly replaced by L1011 belly capacity.


AA was still flying freighter 747's into the early to mid 1980's and then most of those airplanes were sold off to UPS. As noted United had a few DC-8-54JT's that were around until about 1985 or 86 and then later 3 DC-10-30F's. DL had, I believe only a couple, L-100's, civilian C130. TW did have a few 707 cargo aircraft and if I remember correctly, they painted windows of the airplanes, don't know why. PA also had a few 747-200 freighters too. Heck even AS had L-100's, B732 Combi's, B734 Combi's, a sole B734 freighter and now 3 B737 freighters.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:03 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
rexchase12 wrote:
All US carriers who use to have cargo planes got rid of them.[/i]

Which US carriers?

The now big 3 all had some sort of cargo divisions years ago.
United had a fleet of DC * cargo jets
AA had 707's
and DL had a Lockheed model of some sort in the 70's.

As best I recall, AA got out of the cargo (freighter ) business when the DC 10's came on in the early- mid 70's.
UA held on with the DC 8's into the early 80's maybe? two tragic accidents in the later years. ( DTW and SLC)
and the oddball DL Lockheeds I think went right after the 1973 fuel crises.

I think TWA had a few all cargo 707s thru the 60's and maybe upto 1973 or so also...mostly replaced by L1011 belly capacity.


Northwest also had 15 747-200 freighters that DL didn't keep long after the merger in 2008. NW had lost DHL as a client just months earlier.
 
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Channex757
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:13 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
As AA has previously sold aircraft to DHL and its suppliers (like ASL) for freighter conversion, maybe they will come in and kick the tyres on this batch. Well cared for examples, no need for a cabin etc....

AA sold the 767s to Jetran who sold them to CAM who then placed them for Amazon

AA sold 757s out of ROW to DHL, replacing their early fleet of ex-BA 757s.
ASL operates A330F conversions for DHL.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:29 pm

National Airlines introduced its first A330-200 at the beginning of this year.

Pre-COVID they said they would acquire a second A332 and look at buying more:

National Airlines will be adding an additional A330 by June of this this year and additional aircraft in the future.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 91413.html

Could they be interested in American's A332s? Their current A332 seems to be flying actively with sports and military charters.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:57 pm

Ishrion wrote:
National Airlines introduced its first A330-200 at the beginning of this year.

Pre-COVID they said they would acquire a second A332 and look at buying more:

National Airlines will be adding an additional A330 by June of this this year and additional aircraft in the future.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 91413.html

Could they be interested in American's A332s? Their current A332 seems to be flying actively with sports and military charters.


National is a very small operation now. While they are bringing their long-stored P&W engined 744s back from the desert, more than 1 or 2 additional A330s is too much for them right now.
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Moose135
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:21 am

Tan Flyr wrote:
I think TWA had a few all cargo 707s thru the 60's and maybe upto 1973 or so also...mostly replaced by L1011 belly capacity.


Apparently they flew them until at least 1978, and at least one of them got the "new" colors. My Dad was a TWA mechanic at JFK, and somewhere I probably still have a card from back then (early '70s maybe) that listed all of the models they had with number of airframes and various specs, but it would take me a month to find it.



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Boof02671
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:10 am

Channex757 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
As AA has previously sold aircraft to DHL and its suppliers (like ASL) for freighter conversion, maybe they will come in and kick the tyres on this batch. Well cared for examples, no need for a cabin etc....

AA sold the 767s to Jetran who sold them to CAM who then placed them for Amazon

AA sold 757s out of ROW to DHL, replacing their early fleet of ex-BA 757s.
ASL operates A330F conversions for DHL.

Actually it doesn’t say which airline they bought them from

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/aer ... 36.article

AA only sold seven 757s to DHL

https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Ame ... 757-35.htm
 
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Channex757
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:32 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
AA sold the 767s to Jetran who sold them to CAM who then placed them for Amazon

AA sold 757s out of ROW to DHL, replacing their early fleet of ex-BA 757s.
ASL operates A330F conversions for DHL.

Actually it doesn’t say which airline they bought them from

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/aer ... 36.article

AA only sold seven 757s to DHL

https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Ame ... 757-35.htm

Does it matter?
My point is that AA-DHL-ASL have a prior relationship. Not who bought what and when.
 
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Revelation
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:13 pm

Spacepope wrote:
rexchase12 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Future freighters. There are conversion programs already in place for both variants.

FedEx replacements for the A300's?

Doubtful, A330 wingspan is too long for parking slots, and for the same amout of real estate you can park a 77F. Probably not a good replacement capacity-wise for A300s either.

I thought FX was using 767s for replacing the older A300s and were doing an avionics upgrade to keep the newer ones viable for many more years. I would think the natural replacement would be more 767s.

MD80MKE wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
MD80MKE wrote:
All are being scrapped or only the older ones? Also are you sure its 332s not older 333s?

None of them are scrapped. They are removing cabin stuff etc and selling parts. The 333s were already stripped of certain parts.

Ah gotcha, by stripped for parts I thought you meant scrapping which would've been kinda shocking for those 332s that are mostly under 10 years old.

When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping? You're selling off the most sought-after parts so the path back to flying status becomes less and less likely the more parts you sell. A330 is still in production so you probably can find everything you need, but at a price.
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MIflyer12
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:18 pm

Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?


Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?


Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'

Does it really matter? Thousands of planes are parked and won’t ever fly again. You are all debating semantics
 
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par13del
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?


Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'

...or go the other way around, if someone decides to lease one of these a/c from DL, what interior items have to be removed before use?
 
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Polot
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:07 pm

par13del wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?


Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'

...or go the other way around, if someone decides to lease one of these a/c from DL, what interior items have to be removed before use?

That’s plus very much depend on who owns the aircraft, who owns the interior fittings (although I believe in the case of AA’s A332s those are one and the same) and what is negotiated in the lease.
 
MrPeanut
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:29 pm

jayunited wrote:
I think AA if there is a widebody shortage come 2022 will take a hard look at JFK and ORD.


I would add MIA/Europe routes to that list for any routes that cannot be supported by O&D. MIA is a horrible domestic connecting airport due to its geography for passengers traveling to/from Europe. AA will need to be hyper sensitive about routing connecting passengers as efficiently as possible (shortest flying distance) to minimize costs going forward. This means minimizing domestic connecting passengers to/from Europe through MIA.
 
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Revelation
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:08 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?

Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'

Does it really matter? Thousands of planes are parked and won’t ever fly again. You are all debating semantics

I think we're on the same side of the discussion. People are arguing these planes are nice targets for a future start up or growth for a major airline, I'm suggesting they're being scrapped one part at a time. They won't sit waiting for a future operator, IMO, but it seems this forum is so wired to contemplate the possibilities that we're not really taking in to account the reality of the pandemic.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Boof02671
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:17 pm

par13del wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?


Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'

...or go the other way around, if someone decides to lease one of these a/c from DL, what interior items have to be removed before use?

Depends on the contract
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:18 pm

par13del wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
When does part stripping become de-facto scrapping?


Pretty quickly. You have the labor to remove parts. You have the labor to add the parts back if you want to re-enter service. For things where the labor component is big this can be a death sentence. It's like arguing 'We're not tearing down the house - we're just pulling out the kitchen, all of the bathrooms, and the basement.'

...or go the other way around, if someone decides to lease one of these a/c from DL, what interior items have to be removed before use?

These aren’t DL planes, they are AA.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 am

MrPeanut wrote:
jayunited wrote:
I think AA if there is a widebody shortage come 2022 will take a hard look at JFK and ORD.


I would add MIA/Europe routes to that list for any routes that cannot be supported by O&D. MIA is a horrible domestic connecting airport due to its geography for passengers traveling to/from Europe. AA will need to be hyper sensitive about routing connecting passengers as efficiently as possible (shortest flying distance) to minimize costs going forward. This means minimizing domestic connecting passengers to/from Europe through MIA.


Where else is AA going to connect passengers between Europe and Latin America?
 
richiemo
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:32 am

I'm devastated by this news. I loved this plane. Often flew it from CLT to PHL (and vice versa). Was great way to ride a wide body without having to go international or trans-con. Was a quick 60 minute thrill ride. Really disappointing. A pox on this pox.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:11 am

Ziyulu wrote:
AA does not seem to like Airbus widebodies. First, they retired the 300, then the 333, and now the 332. I don't think they will order the 350.

The A300s served nearly 20 years with AA, and the type was retired shortly after the Great Recession.

The A333s were delivered starting in 2000 while the A332s began delivery in 2009. Clearly the A333s were on their way out, especially as overlapping capacity and competing against the 777 and 787 (both of which had bigger numbers than the 9 A333s) and due to age.

The A332s might have survived longer without Covid; I think there was still space for the A332 in the fleet and the planes still had life, but Covid made the type pretty much irrelevant.

I don't think this is a dislike of Airbus widebodies as much as it is inefficiency of operating a small subfleet of planes (24 A330s) vs over 100 Boeing widebodies (777-787) from legacy American.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ewt340
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:20 am

Damn, they got a really clean fleet now. A320's family, B737, B777 and B787.
They gonna retire all their B777-200ER soon, might as well throw B777-300ER into long long storage at this point, it's not like the market needed the aircraft for half a decade to come.

After that they would only got 3 aircraft type to operate with. Efficiency at it's finest.
 
bennett123
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:34 am

Revelation

IMO, the line has been crossed once you go beyond engine removal.

Another way of looking at it is would this be removed during a major overhaul.

However, we are in strange times...
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:17 am

Not really so sure what was even the point of taking in all those A330s from US Airways if they were planning on retiring them anyway (even pre-pandemic).
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Polot
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:59 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Not really so sure what was even the point of taking in all those A330s from US Airways if they were planning on retiring them anyway (even pre-pandemic).

You can’t not “take” planes when merging. It wasn’t a case where US was liquidating and AA could pick and choose what assets to purchase, when you merge the combined company gets all the assets whether you need them or not. Pre pandemic AA needed the capacity, so they were still in the fleet while AA waited for future deliveries to replace them (specifically the A333s, there were no plans to retire the A332 at the time).

That’s why DL got a bunch of DC-9s when they merged with NW that the retired a few years later, and a 787 order the combined carrier didn’t need and ended up canceling. Didn’t really need them with the large combine A330/767 fleet. That’s why UA has a A350 order that has been pushed (prepandemic) all the way back to 2027. Didn’t really need them with all the 787 deliveries starting with the CO planes. That’s why AA had a small fleet of A330s and a A350 order they ended up canceling. Didn’t really need them with the large 787 fleet/order.
 
Howardt
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Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:28 am

IrishAyes wrote:
just for kicks, I'm trying to think of all the routes these A330 birds have flown over the years, as a commemoration:

CLT-LHR
CLT-CDG
CLT-FRA
CLT-MUC
CLT-MAD
CLT-FCO
CLT-BCN
CLT-DUB
CLT-LGW
PHL-LHR
PHL-FRA
PHL-CDG
PHL-MAN
PHL-DUB
PHL-MAD
PHL-MUC
PHL-FCO
PHL-VCE
PHL-ATH
PHL-TLV
PHL-BCN
PHL-LGW
PHL-ZRH?
PHL-LIS?
PHL-AMS?
ORD-DUB?
ORD-MAN?
PIT-LGW
PIT-FRA
PIT-CDG
JFK-???
MIA-???


They also flew PHL-BDA when LUS first received them
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:45 am

IrishAyes wrote:
just for kicks, I'm trying to think of all the routes these A330 birds have flown over the years, as a commemoration:

<rest snipped>

ORD-MAN?



AA never operated the A330 MAN-ORD. It was just MAN-PHL as you say and that route rotated between the -200 and -300 over the years, though until the Boeings started being used in recent years it was predominantly the -200's once US Airways started taking delivery of them. As an aside, there was MAN-CLT that was on the 757, however that route didn't survive beyond summer 2014 when it was first launched and hasn't returned since. There have been other USA routes scrapped by AA and others that have fallen off the map from MAN over the years that would surely be higher priorities for bringing back once things start to improve.

MAN-ORD has been a mixture of 757, 767 and 787 in recent years, as well as going seasonal as the route declined and eventually axed long before COVID kicked off. Amazing how once upon a time this was supposedly one of AA's most profitable TATL routes, though times change and right up until pre-COVID there were more options available to those travelling TATL to/from MAN.

Right now, I'm just hoping the situation improves to a point where AA will resume MAN-PHL next year as planned.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:16 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
just for kicks, I'm trying to think of all the routes these A330 birds have flown over the years, as a commemoration:

<rest snipped>

ORD-MAN?



AA never operated the A330 MAN-ORD. It was just MAN-PHL as you say and that route rotated between the -200 and -300 over the years, though until the Boeings started being used in recent years it was predominantly the -200's once US Airways started taking delivery of them. As an aside, there was MAN-CLT that was on the 757, however that route didn't survive beyond summer 2014 when it was first launched and hasn't returned since. There have been other USA routes scrapped by AA and others that have fallen off the map from MAN over the years that would surely be higher priorities for bringing back once things start to improve.

MAN-ORD has been a mixture of 757, 767 and 787 in recent years, as well as going seasonal as the route declined and eventually axed long before COVID kicked off. Amazing how once upon a time this was supposedly one of AA's most profitable TATL routes, though times change and right up until pre-COVID there were more options available to those travelling TATL to/from MAN.

Right now, I'm just hoping the situation improves to a point where AA will resume MAN-PHL next year as planned.

They were used ORD-DUB
 
lowfareair
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:25 pm

Howardt wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
just for kicks, I'm trying to think of all the routes these A330 birds have flown over the years, as a commemoration:

CLT-LHR
CLT-CDG
CLT-FRA
CLT-MUC
CLT-MAD
CLT-FCO
CLT-BCN
CLT-DUB
CLT-LGW
PHL-LHR
PHL-FRA
PHL-CDG
PHL-MAN
PHL-DUB
PHL-MAD
PHL-MUC
PHL-FCO
PHL-VCE
PHL-ATH
PHL-TLV
PHL-BCN
PHL-LGW
PHL-ZRH?
PHL-LIS?
PHL-AMS?
ORD-DUB?
ORD-MAN?
PIT-LGW
PIT-FRA
PIT-CDG
JFK-???
MIA-???


They also flew PHL-BDA when LUS first received them


PHL-LAX
PHL-SFO
PHL-CUN
PHL-SJU
PHL-BOS (only one-offs during holidays, co-worker flew it 3ish years ago over Thanksgiving)
PHL-MCO
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:12 pm

OB1504 wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
jayunited wrote:
I think AA if there is a widebody shortage come 2022 will take a hard look at JFK and ORD.


I would add MIA/Europe routes to that list for any routes that cannot be supported by O&D. MIA is a horrible domestic connecting airport due to its geography for passengers traveling to/from Europe. AA will need to be hyper sensitive about routing connecting passengers as efficiently as possible (shortest flying distance) to minimize costs going forward. This means minimizing domestic connecting passengers to/from Europe through MIA.


Where else is AA going to connect passengers between Europe and Latin America?


Re-read my post again. I said MIA is a horrible DOMESTIC connecting airport.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:18 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
just for kicks, I'm trying to think of all the routes these A330 birds have flown over the years, as a commemoration:

<rest snipped>

ORD-MAN?



AA never operated the A330 MAN-ORD. It was just MAN-PHL as you say and that route rotated between the -200 and -300 over the years, though until the Boeings started being used in recent years it was predominantly the -200's once US Airways started taking delivery of them. As an aside, there was MAN-CLT that was on the 757, however that route didn't survive beyond summer 2014 when it was first launched and hasn't returned since. There have been other USA routes scrapped by AA and others that have fallen off the map from MAN over the years that would surely be higher priorities for bringing back once things start to improve.

MAN-ORD has been a mixture of 757, 767 and 787 in recent years, as well as going seasonal as the route declined and eventually axed long before COVID kicked off. Amazing how once upon a time this was supposedly one of AA's most profitable TATL routes, though times change and right up until pre-COVID there were more options available to those travelling TATL to/from MAN.

Right now, I'm just hoping the situation improves to a point where AA will resume MAN-PHL next year as planned.

They were used ORD-DUB


I don't think that's correct. AA did not use its A330s post merger in regular service at ORD and definitely not on ORD-DUB.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4183
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:39 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:

AA never operated the A330 MAN-ORD. It was just MAN-PHL as you say and that route rotated between the -200 and -300 over the years, though until the Boeings started being used in recent years it was predominantly the -200's once US Airways started taking delivery of them. As an aside, there was MAN-CLT that was on the 757, however that route didn't survive beyond summer 2014 when it was first launched and hasn't returned since. There have been other USA routes scrapped by AA and others that have fallen off the map from MAN over the years that would surely be higher priorities for bringing back once things start to improve.

MAN-ORD has been a mixture of 757, 767 and 787 in recent years, as well as going seasonal as the route declined and eventually axed long before COVID kicked off. Amazing how once upon a time this was supposedly one of AA's most profitable TATL routes, though times change and right up until pre-COVID there were more options available to those travelling TATL to/from MAN.

Right now, I'm just hoping the situation improves to a point where AA will resume MAN-PHL next year as planned.

They were used ORD-DUB


I don't think that's correct. AA did not use its A330s post merger in regular service at ORD and definitely not on ORD-DUB.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/252829/american-airlines-s16-chicago-dublin-aircraft-changes/?highlight=Chicago%20dublin
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:45 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
They were used ORD-DUB


I don't think that's correct. AA did not use its A330s post merger in regular service at ORD and definitely not on ORD-DUB.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/252829/american-airlines-s16-chicago-dublin-aircraft-changes/?highlight=Chicago%20dublin


Oh cool. Didn't know that/remember it. Longhaul at ORD pre-pandemic was standardized around the 787 that I had forgotten about this.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA Retires All Airbus A330-200s

Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:12 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:

AA never operated the A330 MAN-ORD. It was just MAN-PHL as you say and that route rotated between the -200 and -300 over the years, though until the Boeings started being used in recent years it was predominantly the -200's once US Airways started taking delivery of them. As an aside, there was MAN-CLT that was on the 757, however that route didn't survive beyond summer 2014 when it was first launched and hasn't returned since. There have been other USA routes scrapped by AA and others that have fallen off the map from MAN over the years that would surely be higher priorities for bringing back once things start to improve.

MAN-ORD has been a mixture of 757, 767 and 787 in recent years, as well as going seasonal as the route declined and eventually axed long before COVID kicked off. Amazing how once upon a time this was supposedly one of AA's most profitable TATL routes, though times change and right up until pre-COVID there were more options available to those travelling TATL to/from MAN.

Right now, I'm just hoping the situation improves to a point where AA will resume MAN-PHL next year as planned.

They were used ORD-DUB


I don't think that's correct. AA did not use its A330s post merger in regular service at ORD and definitely not on ORD-DUB.

They most certainly did.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3234
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

American Airlines Considers Adding Freighters

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:56 pm

According to this, American Airlines may add freighter aircraft to its fleet: https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logisti ... ty-crunch/

American's President of Cargo and Vice President of Airport Excellence Jessica Tyler says, "Up until a couple of years ago, the answer was just ‘no, the economics didn’t make sense". https://aircargoworld.com/news/carriers ... ty-crunch/

Could we see American order new freighter aircraft? (777F) Or could they simply convert existing passenger aircraft into freighters? (737-800ВCF, A330P2F, 757PCF, 767BDSF)

American recently retired its remaining Boeing 757, 767, and entire A330 fleets. I believe most 767s have been sold for freighter conversion for other airlines, but I haven't heard anything on the future of AA's 757s and A330s. Could these be converted into freighters?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2443
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Considers Adding Freighters

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:58 pm

They’ve sold seven 757s to DHL
 
Woodreau
Posts: 2004
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: American Airlines Considers Adding Freighters

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:02 pm

So would they have to take on more debt to acquire these freighters or would then simply convert their existing orders to freighters?
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
User avatar
ArcticSEA
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Considers Adding Freighters

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:02 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Could these be converted into freighters?

Yes, they could convert them. They'll have to get in line. It takes months to get conversions done, if not years with the backlog.
By the time they're actually all converted, COVID will be in the rear view mirror.
Last edited by 777ER on Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to remove flame bait
You have freedom of speech. You do not have freedom to commit seditious, violent insurrection.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Considers Adding Freighters

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:10 pm

Absolutely never going to happen. It makes no sense to have designated freight only aircraft/operation in a non pandemic world.

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