Checking Planespotters.net, it appears that 23 of AA's 47 B77E's have the older cabin layouts. Rather than AA going to the expense of coverting these to their current interior standard, perhaps they will simply retire those unconverted B77E's?

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines

Why wouldn't AA retire some of its oldest 777s? Now that those awful 767s are gone and all of the widebodies inherited from US are grounded (probably for good), the 9/11-era 777-200ERs are by far the least competitive long haul aircraft left in the AA fleet. Obviously the much newer 777-300ERs are perfect for the premium long haul destinations - GRU, LHR, SYD, TYO - and the much more modern, efficient 787 fleet can handle everything else. It's no wonder these aging birds are now being relegated to services like CLT-Europe. From an operational as well as passenger experience perspective, I'm sure the sooner routes like those can go to 787, the better!

I agree AA needs the 77W for the MOST premium long haul destinations including LHR in Europe, GRU in South America, HND/NRT and HKG in Asia and SYD in Oceania.

x1234 wrote:

I agree AA needs the 77W for the MOST premium long haul destinations including LHR in Europe, GRU in South America, HND/NRT and HKG in Asia and SYD in Oceania.

Except SYD hasn't been on the 77W in a few years? That was in order to protest the original AA/QF JV denial, but I believe they still weren't planning to go back to the 77W?

The777Man wrote:

Any idea if N416AN is stored in PIT ? It was delivered in late February this year and I think it's the only 32Q from AA that is not flying at the moment.

The777Man

Yes it is. It has been here since 3/27.

402, 406 and 409 are also parked at PIT.

usflyer msp wrote:

Simpleflying is a horrible news source. Nowhere did AA say they were considering retiring their entire 777 fleet - that comes from simpleflying's lack of reading comprehension.

I would like to pile on and state that Simpleflying is indeed terrible. It is not a news source. Their articles are poorly written and sound like a group of teenagers doing a bit of superficial research on the internet. I wish they just sunk, but it appears they are savvy enough on placement on the web, which keeps their links popping up here and there.

x1234 wrote:

I agree AA needs the 77W for the MOST premium long haul destinations including LHR in Europe, GRU in South America, HND/NRT and HKG in Asia and SYD in Oceania.

The 77W on LAX-SYD was replaced with the 789 in 2018.

The 77W fleet likely isn't going anywhere. The 20 frames are quite new and pre-COVID served AA's primary international destinations (LHR, HKG, GRU, EZE principally). The 772s were delivered beginning in 1997 or 1998 so the oldest frames are over 20 years old. Not really old, but getting up there. I think I read the majority of the 772 fleet are owned by AA and not leased. The 787 top up order (22 788 and 25 789) last year was designed to replace all 763s, the A333s, and some early delivery 772s). AA like the rest of the industry will be a smaller in the new world so it's not unreasonable to see a number of 772s getting parked for good but I would not expect all 47 to go at once.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

This below, that is what was implied. End of story. AA is Not going to pull a DL 777 retirement.

OMG. Between the clickbait travel blogggers and posters in here who either never read the source of information, never read the article, or just fly in with blantently wrong speculate statments

chonetsao wrote:

jodieellis wrote:

Confusing. But AA will still keep 77W instead. The 772 will likely be retired.

The original news source never said B772 fleet will be retired. It simply said AA is conducting a fleet review to discuss possibilities of the INCOMING B788/789 to replace the B772. That means B772 will be with AA for few more years until all B788/789 are delivered. That will take us to 2023 I believe.

OMG is right. My read is that well before COVID, the level of hostility on a.net drove away a lot of the industry insiders and folks with a good line on info. After that, the sourcing on here has been way thinner, with links to the Points Guy or other sources that don't have a deep historical knowledge base. In this case, there is nothing new. Obviously, frames in any fleet coming due for heavy maintenance in any fleet are going to go out to grass - at least for a while. If the recovery is faster, they will go through HMVs. If it is slow, they will be sold or retired for good. But the thought of parking a fleet as giant and central as AA's 77Es is - thankfully - not yet on the table.

FLALEFTY wrote:

Checking Planespotters.net, it appears that 23 of AA's 47 B77E's have the older cabin layouts. Rather than AA going to the expense of coverting these to their current interior standard, perhaps they will simply retire those unconverted B77E's?

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines

They're not really "older," they just have the Concept D seat vs the Super Diamond seats in business class. Agree that these may be first to go if they do retire 77Es, but there's not a plan to retrofit them with Super Diamond so they wouldn't be saving any previously planned expense.

One problem is replacing 777-200ER with 37 J class seats with 787 is they have way less Business Class seats, The AA 787-8 has ONLY 20 J class seats, way too few. Even the 787-9 with 30 J class seats needs another 12 or 18 to match Qantas and United Business Class capacity. The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia. If AA does kill off part of their 772 fleet the 787-10 needs to be part of the AA future fleet plan.

jfk777 wrote:

The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia.

Chicago to both Shanghai and Beijing were cut before 787-8 retrofits began which introduced Premium Economy and decreased business from 28 to 20 seats.

jfk777 wrote:

One problem is replacing 777-200ER with 37 J class seats with 787 is they have way less Business Class seats, The AA 787-8 has ONLY 20 J class seats, way too few. Even the 787-9 with 30 J class seats needs another 12 or 18 to match Qantas and United Business Class capacity. The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia. If AA does kill off part of their 772 fleet the 787-10 needs to be part of the AA future fleet plan.

AA could convert some 787 orders to the -10, which could fit 36-40 J seats in the forward section. Or create a high-J 789. Then again, demand for J could drop especially if business travel is reduced.

ILikeTrains wrote:

Simple Flying is cancer COVID-19.

FTFY

jfk777 wrote:

One problem is replacing 777-200ER with 37 J class seats with 787 is they have way less Business Class seats, The AA 787-8 has ONLY 20 J class seats, way too few. Even the 787-9 with 30 J class seats needs another 12 or 18 to match Qantas and United Business Class capacity. The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia. If AA does kill off part of their 772 fleet the 787-10 needs to be part of the AA future fleet plan.

Easy fix, though. And if they are retiring 777-200ER, maybe they can even take J clas seats out of those and move them to 787s. (Might be a slightly different seat type).

But look, I was on a senior B772 (UA) last summer. She was fine (Polaris Business Class), but those older aircraft have to be getting pretty expensive to maintain and the 772 is a thirsty bird when compared the A333, let alone the 787 and A330NEO. Older aircraft are nice to have because you can park them during a downturn and they are inexpensive to own. AA started taking 777s in 1997. It's shocking to me that an aircraft that was brand-spanking-new in my lifetime is now facing retirement (then again, I remember the first 744s, but my voice hadn't broken yet), but time goes on.

Of the widebodies in service older A330s and 772s (especially the 77As) are probably going to go. Internationally, I see a lot of 773 (not 77W) probably getting parked, too.

Ishrion wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia.

Chicago to both Shanghai and Beijing were cut before 787-8 retrofits began which introduced Premium Economy and decreased business from 28 to 20 seats.

Asia has been a dumpster fire for all airlines for years, minus the exception of SFO-Asia and a few other routes on US carriers from other gateways.

Key word: few.

Primary reason being the influx of ASMs from state-owned Chinese carriers or from small startups like Xiamen, Sichuan, Capital, HKE (RIP) and the likes of HU (semi-RIP) plus premium, non-state owned airlines like ANA, JAL, Cathay, Singapore, EVA, etc. Point being, way too much capacity on US-Asia, dirt cheap fares (and thus yields) and the opportunity costs of having to utilize two widebodies for each individual route, with perhaps SEA or HNL to North Asia being the outliers.

Given the situation in HKG, the fall out from COVID-19, and the fact that state-owned carriers have still maintained some level of capacity to US markets, it will be a long, long time before the US Big Three return to the level of service that they had at the start of 2020. These routes were the first to get chopped, one because of outbreak, but two because these routes were performing badly as-is. I suspect that the reinstatement of some carriers like UA, DL etc. will be to a much smaller, scaled-down list of either somewhat viably decent performers, flown with 787s or A350s, and/or to a handful of markets that merit resumption for business or political purposes.

Essentially, I would be shocked to see LAX experience a rapid restoration of service to Asia on any of the major U.S. airlines.

Its funny to me that AA a few years ago with so many old MDs and fleet diversity went from the most old inefficient fleet batch to now the most efficient fleet in america. it only took a virus/Merger and lots of debt.

So yeah, those 77E aren't going to last and i'm betting all of them by the end of the year. it'll be 787/77W and maybe 7810 but a conversion from the current order.

Who wants to bet the the 737 will be fully gone as well and the A220 will be coming in?

AA has had the youngest fleet for years.

AA is not getting rid of all the 737s nor the A320 family and have firm orders for the 737Max and A321neos. They won’t be ordering the 220 b

I’ll take that bet.

randomdude83 wrote:

Its funny to me that AA a few years ago with so many old MDs and fleet diversity went from the most old inefficient fleet batch to now the most efficient fleet in america. it only took a virus/Merger and lots of debt.

So yeah, those 77E aren't going to last and i'm betting all of them by the end of the year. it'll be 787/77W and maybe 7810 but a conversion from the current order.

Who wants to bet the the 737 will be fully gone as well and the A220 will be coming in?

Wrong. Here in BFM we will be doing heavy checks on 3 lines of the 772s starting in Aug. That's all we're going to be doing for AA for some time to come. We also have 25 of them parked on RWY 36/18 for now, so we don't have far go to get them.

ok question, why do some of you say 777-300 and 77W in the same sentence when its the same plane?? Whats wrong with just typing 772 or 773?!

Fixinthe757 wrote:

ok question, why do some of you say 777-300 and 77W in the same sentence when its the same plane?? Whats wrong with just typing 772 or 773?!

Hi, I tend to do the same but in fact they are not the same. The 77W is a 777-300ER, the 773 is a plain 777-300. I only fly the former so I don't know the weight and fuel numbers for the non er type. I don't believe there were many produced as with the 777-200 non er. Good for high volume shorter routes but definitely less useful overall.

Fixinthe757 wrote:

randomdude83 wrote:

Its funny to me that AA a few years ago with so many old MDs and fleet diversity went from the most old inefficient fleet batch to now the most efficient fleet in america. it only took a virus/Merger and lots of debt.

So yeah, those 77E aren't going to last and i'm betting all of them by the end of the year. it'll be 787/77W and maybe 7810 but a conversion from the current order.

Who wants to bet the the 737 will be fully gone as well and the A220 will be coming in?

Wrong. Here in BFM we will be doing heavy checks on 3 lines of the 772s starting in Aug. That's all we're going to be doing for AA for some time to come. We also have 25 of them parked on RWY 36/18 for now, so we don't have far go to get them.

Well considering aa is just doing a fleet review now and their cash burn needs to come down quickly. Their current plans for August is kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

FLALEFTY wrote:

Checking Planespotters.net, it appears that 23 of AA's 47 B77E's have the older cabin layouts. Rather than AA going to the expense of coverting these to their current interior standard, perhaps they will simply retire those unconverted B77E's?

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines

That list is yeaaaaars out of date. All 77Es have had the same layout for a while now. The only difference is that some have the concept D seat and some have the Super Diamond.

F was removed a long time ago.

Fixinthe757 wrote:

ok question, why do some of you say 777-300 and 77W in the same sentence when its the same plane?? Whats wrong with just typing 772 or 773?!

772=original, short range 777-200 (not ER), older engines
77E=777-200ER, what AA owns, older engines
773=777-300, older engines (not what AA owns, not ER)
77W=777-300ER, what AA owns, GE-90-115
777L=777-200LR, what DL is retiring, GE-90-110 (same engine, reduced thrust due to reduced rudder moment arm).

So nothing wrong with just typing 77E or 77W, but you suggest models AA doesn't own.

I see older 77Es being retired. IIRC, Trent 800s.

Lightsaber

tphuang wrote:

Fixinthe757 wrote:

randomdude83 wrote:

Its funny to me that AA a few years ago with so many old MDs and fleet diversity went from the most old inefficient fleet batch to now the most efficient fleet in america. it only took a virus/Merger and lots of debt.

So yeah, those 77E aren't going to last and i'm betting all of them by the end of the year. it'll be 787/77W and maybe 7810 but a conversion from the current order.

Who wants to bet the the 737 will be fully gone as well and the A220 will be coming in?

Wrong. Here in BFM we will be doing heavy checks on 3 lines of the 772s starting in Aug. That's all we're going to be doing for AA for some time to come. We also have 25 of them parked on RWY 36/18 for now, so we don't have far go to get them.

Well considering aa is just doing a fleet review now and their cash burn needs to come down quickly. Their current plans for August is kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

Not when that schedule came out yesterday it isnt

Fixinthe757 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Fixinthe757 wrote:

Wrong. Here in BFM we will be doing heavy checks on 3 lines of the 772s starting in Aug. That's all we're going to be doing for AA for some time to come. We also have 25 of them parked on RWY 36/18 for now, so we don't have far go to get them.

Well considering aa is just doing a fleet review now and their cash burn needs to come down quickly. Their current plans for August is kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

Not when that schedule came out yesterday it isnt

That still does not change whether or not they will retire the fleet. Do you think heavy check on a couple of aircraft means they won’t retired aircraft? That’s to be determined in their fleet review which I am sure is ongoing.

jfk777 wrote:

The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia.

What do you mean? Did they come with Premium Economy instead of Business?

VSMUT wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

The lack of J class seats on the 787-8 is one reason AA had a hard time making money from Chicago to Asia.

What do you mean? Did they come with Premium Economy instead of Business?

Less business.20J on the 787 vs 37J on the 77E.

That said, the poster is mixing multiple unrelated concepts to find causation. ORD-Asia has been losing money for a long time. It was losing money when the 787s had 28 J seats too.

DeltaRules wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

If AA does retire the 77E, can they please retire the Concept D frames first!

Curious as to what's special about the Concept D frames.

Nothing. Just the business interiors are concept D vs some having the Super Diamond. The concept D seats generally suck, so I think the poster was wishing those get the axe first.

ILikeTrains wrote:

Simple Flying is cancer.

Yet their articles appear in Google News searches.

If there any Wikipedians on here, perhaps they might want to look at getting them added to the list of unreliable sources on the Wikipedia notice board:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... oticeboard

Antarius wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

If AA does retire the 77E, can they please retire the Concept D frames first!

Curious as to what's special about the Concept D frames.

Nothing. Just the business interiors are concept D vs some having the Super Diamond. The concept D seats generally suck, so I think the poster was wishing those get the axe first.

Its because theyre more of a pain to take out/put in. Bit more to deal with.

tphuang wrote:

Fixinthe757 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Well considering aa is just doing a fleet review now and their cash burn needs to come down quickly. Their current plans for August is kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

Not when that schedule came out yesterday it isnt

That still does not change whether or not they will retire the fleet. Do you think heavy check on a couple of aircraft means they won’t retired aircraft? That’s to be determined in their fleet review which I am sure is ongoing.

Of course they could retire aircraft, didn't say they wouldn't, but they wont be doing heavy checks on a plane theyre about to retire either

CURQ400 wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

Checking Planespotters.net, it appears that 23 of AA's 47 B77E's have the older cabin layouts. Rather than AA going to the expense of coverting these to their current interior standard, perhaps they will simply retire those unconverted B77E's?

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines

That list is yeaaaaars out of date. All 77Es have had the same layout for a while now. The only difference is that some have the concept D seat and some have the Super Diamond.
.
F was removed a long time ago.

You are probably right. Cross referencing Seatguru for AA's 77E they only show one seating configuration.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 00ER_E.php

Fixinthe757 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Fixinthe757 wrote:

Not when that schedule came out yesterday it isnt

That still does not change whether or not they will retire the fleet. Do you think heavy check on a couple of aircraft means they won’t retired aircraft? That’s to be determined in their fleet review which I am sure is ongoing.

Of course they could retire aircraft, didn't say they wouldn't, but they wont be doing heavy checks on a plane theyre about to retire either

If the plane is leased they are required to accomplish all maintenance checks due.

FLALEFTY wrote:

CURQ400 wrote:

FLALEFTY wrote:

Checking Planespotters.net, it appears that 23 of AA's 47 B77E's have the older cabin layouts. Rather than AA going to the expense of coverting these to their current interior standard, perhaps they will simply retire those unconverted B77E's?

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/American-Airlines

That list is yeaaaaars out of date. All 77Es have had the same layout for a while now. The only difference is that some have the concept D seat and some have the Super Diamond.
.
F was removed a long time ago.

You are probably right. Cross referencing Seatguru for AA's 77E they only show one seating configuration.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 00ER_E.php

That’s weird. There’s technically two seating configurations since half of the Zodiac J seats face backwards and the Super Diamonds all face forward, as shown in the map above. Seatguru used to have a map showing that (before PE was added), but not sure why they merged them into a single map.

https://airlinesfleet.com/american-airl ... ng_Plan_V3

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

This below, that is what was implied. End of story. AA is Not going to pull a DL 777 retirement.

OMG. Between the clickbait travel blogggers and posters in here who either never read the source of information, never read the article, or just fly in with blantently wrong speculate statments

chonetsao wrote:

jodieellis wrote:

Confusing. But AA will still keep 77W instead. The 772 will likely be retired.

The original news source never said B772 fleet will be retired. It simply said AA is conducting a fleet review to discuss possibilities of the INCOMING B788/789 to replace the B772. That means B772 will be with AA for few more years until all B788/789 are delivered. That will take us to 2023 I believe.

Well? Nobody ever said the opinions here are FACT. The majority of these guys have never even been up close and personal to a 77A or a 77E to even know the difference. you're getting worked up over nothing.

Fixinthe757 wrote:

ok question, why do some of you say 777-300 and 77W in the same sentence when its the same plane?? Whats wrong with just typing 772 or 773?!

Because the adolescents on this website will rage at you if you don't use the industry correct abbreviation, even though we'll all know what you're referring to.

Two more
TUL-DFW
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KDFW
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KDFW

"All AA 320s have finished having power ports at each seat installed."

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1265318924125691904

* First LAA 321 that’s been Oasis'd should be returning to service in the next couple days

* Ramped up 321 Oasis conversions as well. Now four lines running concurrently with 3 of them being LUS birds.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1263964642050576385

Which LAA bird is the first to come out of Oasis?

gen2stew wrote:

Planning and flexibility are great but in this instance team Tempe is out of touch with reality to the point of insanity. AA is leveraged to the hilt, demand is near nil,and has a sub par product. How are they planning paying for more 787 and writing down/paying off the 777? It seems as if they are still working in a pre-covid mindset and barely paying lip service to the (gag) "new normal ".

I think you're being a bit harsh. AA may not have a great soft product on domestic routes (depending on who the competition is), but their international premium cabin is certainly strong, and their Premium Economy and regular Economy cabins competitive with everybody else. Cathay Pacific/JAL/etc. they're not, but that's not their primary competition.

A couple weeks ago I was on a LUS 321 that had been Oasis. It wasn’t a NEO. Plane had 20 F and power ports. So there’s got to be at least one operating in the new configuration.

Miamiairport wrote:

A couple weeks ago I was on a LUS 321 that had been Oasis. It wasn’t a NEO. Plane had 20 F and power ports. So there’s got to be at least one operating in the new configuration.

There’s at least 3 LUS A321s with Oasis: https://sites.google.com/site/newameric ... 21-classic

The first A321ceo to receive the new interior began flying at around March 2019.

Several aircraft have exited storage at PIT:

A319 N70020 ferried PIT-SAL 5/3
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N70020

A319 N815AW ferried PIT-SAT 5/5
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N815AW

A321 N583UW ferried PIT-SAL yesterday.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9778

A319 N818AW scheduled to ferry PIT-PHL today for service re-entry.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9785

The following aircraft that were parked at PIT are now back in service:
A319 N8001N
A319 N9002U
A319 N8009T
A319 N9016
A319 N9021H
A319 N9022G
A319 N12028
A319 N732US
A320 N122US
A321 N188US (scheduled to ferry SAL-CLT today)

Jo8338 wrote:

Which LAA bird is the first to come out of Oasis?

N930AU will be exiting TUL any day now.

Ishrion wrote:

Miamiairport wrote:

A couple weeks ago I was on a LUS 321 that had been Oasis. It wasn’t a NEO. Plane had 20 F and power ports. So there’s got to be at least one operating in the new configuration.

There’s at least 3 LUS A321s with Oasis: https://sites.google.com/site/newameric ... 21-classic

The first A321ceo to receive the new interior began flying at around March 2019.

I wish on that site/page they'd add in the Comments column "Oasis" so we'd know; otherwise, is the indication the ships which show 20J/170Y with MCE shown as TBD and "power" as YES? I'm presuming so as there's only about 3 or 4.

Presumably more...
TUL-BOS (738)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KBOS

TUL-LGA (738)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KLGA

TUL-MIA (77W)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KTUL/KMIA

PIT-DFW (319)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KPIT/KDFW

cathay747 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Miamiairport wrote:

A couple weeks ago I was on a LUS 321 that had been Oasis. It wasn’t a NEO. Plane had 20 F and power ports. So there’s got to be at least one operating in the new configuration.

There’s at least 3 LUS A321s with Oasis: https://sites.google.com/site/newameric ... 21-classic

The first A321ceo to receive the new interior began flying at around March 2019.

I wish on that site/page they'd add in the Comments column "Oasis" so we'd know; otherwise, is the indication the ships which show 20J/170Y with MCE shown as TBD and "power" as YES? I'm presuming so as there's only about 3 or 4.

Yes. 20J/170Y is the Oasis A321; 16J/156Y is the Oasis 737, but it looks like they now have a separate section for the Oasis 738s so that’s nice.

A319 N808AW ferried PIT-DFW today for return to service.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9792

A21N N406AN appears to be undergoing prep work at PIT for RTS.

A21Ns N406AN and N409AA scheduled to ferry PIT-DFW today for return to service.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9798
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA9799