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Sayol82
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:43 am

RobK wrote:
... (nyc787 website data differs to mine from LN 1118). ...


May I ask what is the difference? Can that alternate production list be found somewhere on the internet? Thank You!
 
B787register
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:22 pm

Hi Rob,
I too would be interested in seeing that list if its available
Dave
David C
 
B787register
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:38 pm

Antaras wrote:
RobK wrote:
I see in the latest Boeing firing order that All Nippon seem to have cancelled all their upcoming 787-9s. Looks like some changes could be in progress for their built undelivered ones too.

Seems like NH wants to cancel all the troublesome RR-powered 789s and decided to wait for its GE-powered airframes from its latest order to come yet?

(or it doesn't have enough cash to receive more airframes these days.)

Which frames is it trying to not take up?
David C
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:56 pm

RobK wrote:
I see in the latest Boeing firing order that All Nippon seem to have cancelled all their upcoming 787-9s. Looks like some changes could be in progress for their built undelivered ones too.

Antaras wrote:
Seems like NH wants to cancel all the troublesome RR-powered 789s and decided to wait for its GE-powered airframes from its latest order to come yet? (or it doesn't have enough cash to receive more airframes these days.)

B787register wrote:
Which frames is it trying to not take up?


ANA has 9 undelivered 787-9 and 1 787-10 with RR engines selected.

In terms of undelivered GE-powered frames, they have 1 787-9 and 11 787-10.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:58 pm

i know RR has he majority of engines with NH but it must sting knowing that this A-list client is willing too defect due to the issues

Stitch wrote:
RobK wrote:
I see in the latest Boeing firing order that All Nippon seem to have cancelled all their upcoming 787-9s. Looks like some changes could be in progress for their built undelivered ones too.

Antaras wrote:
Seems like NH wants to cancel all the troublesome RR-powered 789s and decided to wait for its GE-powered airframes from its latest order to come yet? (or it doesn't have enough cash to receive more airframes these days.)

B787register wrote:
Which frames is it trying to not take up?


ANA has 9 undelivered 787-9 and 1 787-10 with RR engines selected.
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:57 pm

B787register wrote:
Antaras wrote:
RobK wrote:
I see in the latest Boeing firing order that All Nippon seem to have cancelled all their upcoming 787-9s. Looks like some changes could be in progress for their built undelivered ones too.

Seems like NH wants to cancel all the troublesome RR-powered 789s and decided to wait for its GE-powered airframes from its latest order to come yet?

(or it doesn't have enough cash to receive more airframes these days.)

Which frames is it trying to not take up?


787 engines are supposed to be swappable between engine types in less than a day. If NH wants GE engines, now is the time to find out.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:59 pm

jagraham wrote:
787 engines are supposed to be swappable between engine types in less than a day. If NH wants GE engines, now is the time to find out.


You can still swap engine OEMs, but it's a process that ended up taking a fair bit longer than 24 hours.
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:01 pm

Stitch wrote:
jagraham wrote:
787 engines are supposed to be swappable between engine types in less than a day. If NH wants GE engines, now is the time to find out.


You can still swap engine OEMs, but it's a process that ended up taking a fair bit longer than 24 hours.


Understood, but even if it was a week, it's better than NTU airframes . . .
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:25 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
i know RR has he majority of engines with NH but it must sting knowing that this A-list client is willing too defect due to the issues

Stitch wrote:
RobK wrote:
I see in the latest Boeing firing order that All Nippon seem to have cancelled all their upcoming 787-9s. Looks like some changes could be in progress for their built undelivered ones too.

Antaras wrote:
Seems like NH wants to cancel all the troublesome RR-powered 789s and decided to wait for its GE-powered airframes from its latest order to come yet? (or it doesn't have enough cash to receive more airframes these days.)

B787register wrote:
Which frames is it trying to not take up?


ANA has 9 undelivered 787-9 and 1 787-10 with RR engines selected.

In a word, sting is mild. That is a serious rebuke to switch powerplants for the last 10. This significantly hurts RR economics if scale for the T1000/7000.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:10 pm

Stitch wrote:
jagraham wrote:
787 engines are supposed to be swappable between engine types in less than a day. If NH wants GE engines, now is the time to find out.

You can still swap engine OEMs, but it's a process that ended up taking a fair bit longer than 24 hours.

Did any 787 airframes go through this modification or is it just theoretically possible?
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:26 pm

I have not heard of an engine swap. But neither has there been a customer refusing or delaying 787s with one engine while accepting 787s with the other engine. Until now. And I maintain that an engine swap is better than a NTU airframe.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:18 pm

jagraham wrote:
But neither has there been a customer refusing or delaying 787s with one engine while accepting 787s with the other engine.

Ethiopian took up a bunch of ntu-787.
Those ntu airframes are all Trent-powered, while the remaining part of ET's 787 fleet is all GEnx-powered. Check every airframe start with ET-AT* (788) and ET-AU* (789) in the fleet.
This also means that ET didn't choose to swap the engine option. ET even signed a large maintenance contract to take care of those RR-powered airframes.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
jagraham
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:44 pm

ET took a hodgepodge of 787s for sure. They have half of the terrible teens. I wonder what kind of deal they got?
But as you said, they took what Boeing had. Including engines, which are expensive. Probably for a very good price.
Whereas NH is delaying at the very least, RR powered 787s.
In this case, RR can make use of the engines, as they are new and RR hasn't caught up with the Trent 1000 issues.
I do believe that the Trent 1000-TENs, which should be on the latest NH planes, should be reasonable. Despite NH not wanting to take them.
RR can establish an engine pool with the engines NH doesn't want. After perhaps getting a little money for them. After all, NH signed a contract.
There is a mutually beneficial solution here somewhere if all parties are interested in one. And are being honest; after all, it could be that NH doesn't really want anything new, and is using T1000 problems to delay taking some new 787s . . . but if not, better to swap the engine rather than NTU the whole plane.
 
B787register
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:37 pm

Dont all Rolls Royce 787 customers have to run two different aged engines, for instance one engine would have done several hundred cycles and the other would be brand new or did I just dream that up?
David C
 
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DL747
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:38 pm

ET-AYC is delivered, took quite a bit of humanitarian aid when it left PAE. Carriers who are still taking deliveries seem to include Vistara (not including the Hainan NTU frames which are stored), Turkish, Ethiopian, and American, maybe some others I have forgotten about. Most everything else is going to storage and the PAE flightline has been relatively static lately.
Hey, thanks for stopping by! My photos can be found here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=17 ... lay=detail
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:50 pm

B787register wrote:
Dont all Rolls Royce 787 customers have to run two different aged engines, for instance one engine would have done several hundred cycles and the other would be brand new or did I just dream that up?


Rolls has experienced serious issues with premature turbine fatigue cracks due to sulfidation from either fuel or operating in environments (cities) with significant atmospheric sulfur pollution and one of their guidelines (at least for a time - may or may not still be in effect) was to have two engines with different hours on them so should one engine suffer an IFSD due to a turbine failure, the other engine could bring the airframe safely to ground.
 
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Devin
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:12 am

RobK wrote:
The first 787-9 for MIAT Mongolian Airlines expected around May time (nyc787 website data differs to mine from LN 1118). Should look sharp in their livery! :)


CHS or PAE? Unless everything will have moved to CHS already by then. And to clarify LN 1118?
CHS Spotter
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:45 am

Antaras wrote:
RobK wrote:
I see in the latest Boeing firing order that All Nippon seem to have cancelled all their upcoming 787-9s. Looks like some changes could be in progress for their built undelivered ones too.

Seems like NH wants to cancel all the troublesome RR-powered 789s and decided to wait for its GE-powered airframes from its latest order to come yet?

(or it doesn't have enough cash to receive more airframes these days.)

No one has cash to get delivery. Current deliveries are mostly those have financing lined up already. ANA being relatively in a better financial shape (and more than 70% of domestic flights resumed already) is unfortunately in the same boat, maybe a tiny bit better than many others.

With the latest rounds of roue cuts everyone's going to have excess frames so expect more to come.

Michael
 
inkjet7
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:54 am

PH-BKH took three test flights last week after sitting on the flightline for months. This could mean it will be taken up by KLM.
 
B787register
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:22 am

I think it could depend on if she was using her tail number or a N reg. If its a N reg it may be doing some testing/certification stuff. Or that's the way i have been told that happens
David C
 
inkjet7
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:42 am

During another test flight on October 8 she was captured by a Charleston spotter. The registration shown is PH-BKH.
 
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Devin
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:41 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
During another test flight on October 8 she was captured by a Charleston spotter. The registration shown is PH-BKH.


That’s me :) About to upload it to twitter.
CHS Spotter
 
inkjet7
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:48 pm

Devin wrote:
That’s me :) About to upload it to twitter.


Nice shots!
 
audidudi
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:17 pm

B787register wrote:
I think it could depend on if she was using her tail number or a N reg. If its a N reg it may be doing some testing/certification stuff. Or that's the way i have been told that happens

What is the actual protocol for Boeing, and for Airbus for that matter, when it comes to test-flying all new frames regarding which registration # is used prior to final delivery? Sometimes a Boeing reg # is used and sometimes the actual airline's own reg # is used. All Airbus frames use a D-**** (XFW), F-**** (BHM and TLS) or B-**** (TSN) reg # until final delivery. Just curious!
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:30 pm

audidudi wrote:
B787register wrote:
I think it could depend on if she was using her tail number or a N reg. If its a N reg it may be doing some testing/certification stuff. Or that's the way i have been told that happens

What is the actual protocol for Boeing, and for Airbus for that matter, when it comes to test-flying all new frames regarding which registration # is used prior to final delivery? Sometimes a Boeing reg # is used and sometimes the actual airline's own reg # is used. All Airbus frames use a D-**** (XFW), F-**** (BHM and TLS) or B-**** (TSN) reg # until final delivery. Just curious!

Airbus has to use F-/D- for all test flying done by Airbus as per the EASA. That’s why when Airbus paints the planes they slap a temp registration sticker over the customer’s registration that gets peeled off for delivery. BFM (BHM is Birmingham, Alabama) uses EASA production certificates hence why they don’t use N numbers.

FAA allows Boeing to perform test flights displaying customer’s registration which is why once painted they usually don’t have N numbers. If borrowing a plane for testing for other reasons (eg not standard pre delivery test flights) Boeing uses N number iirc.
 
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DL747
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:49 pm

Polot wrote:
audidudi wrote:
B787register wrote:
I think it could depend on if she was using her tail number or a N reg. If its a N reg it may be doing some testing/certification stuff. Or that's the way i have been told that happens

What is the actual protocol for Boeing, and for Airbus for that matter, when it comes to test-flying all new frames regarding which registration # is used prior to final delivery? Sometimes a Boeing reg # is used and sometimes the actual airline's own reg # is used. All Airbus frames use a D-**** (XFW), F-**** (BHM and TLS) or B-**** (TSN) reg # until final delivery. Just curious!

Airbus has to use F-/D- for all test flying done by Airbus as per the EASA. That’s why when Airbus paints the planes they slap a temp registration sticker over the customer’s registration that gets peeled off for delivery. BFM (BHM is Birmingham, Alabama) uses EASA production certificates hence why they don’t use N numbers.

FAA allows Boeing to perform test flights displaying customer’s registration which is why once painted they usually don’t have N numbers. If borrowing a plane for testing for other reasons (eg not standard pre delivery test flights) Boeing uses N number iirc.


I believe for some carriers there's also a component of customer acceptance tied into temp N reg/vs permanent reg, though that could be outdated/wrong information. It seems to be a fairly convoluted process to decipher temp vs permanent reg and I don't desire a revisit to my university-level matrix algebra class so I'll leave it at that. :lol:
Hey, thanks for stopping by! My photos can be found here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=17 ... lay=detail
 
shuck
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:30 am

Have Boeing stopped providing contractual delivery dates for the 787 on their Orders and Deliveries page.
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:01 pm

shuck wrote:
Have Boeing stopped providing contractual delivery dates for the 787 on their Orders and Deliveries page.

When Boeing switched to their new Orders and Deliveries system earlier this year they stopped providing specific order and delivery dates, only month and year.
 
B787register
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:20 pm

Kenyaare converting two 787s to Frieghters, any idea which ones?
David C
 
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boris888
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:16 pm

what happened to 781 deliveries (2x) to KLM? are they cancelled or just postponed
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:55 pm

B787register wrote:
Kenya are converting two 787s to Frieghters, any idea which ones?


All I could find is they are leased frames and the lessor approved the conversion for a period of up to two years.





Note that this not an actual full passenger to freighter conversion, since there is no STC for this. Instead it will be like the other temporary conversions where they remove some or all of the seats and use specialized pallets that can fit through the Type A passenger doors.

Kenya Airways has been using at least one of their 787s as a cargo frame since April, loading small packages in the Economy Class seats and securing them under cargo nets.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:15 pm

Stitch wrote:
B787register wrote:
Kenya are converting two 787s to Frieghters, any idea which ones?


All I could find is they are leased frames and the lessor approved the conversion for a period of up to two years.





Note that this not an actual full passenger to freighter conversion, since there is no STC for this. Instead it will be like the other temporary conversions where they remove some or all of the seats and use specialized pallets that can fit through the Type A passenger doors.

Kenya Airways has been using at least one of their 787s as a cargo frame since April, loading small packages in the Economy Class seats and securing them under cargo nets.


Most probably 5Y-KZA and ZB
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