cathay747 wrote:

FYI it was said on here at the time of posting that Super Shuttle was no longer going to serve PHX that they were actually going out of business...but their website is still active. It appears they are still in operation, albeit with a SIGNIFICANTLY shorter list of cities served, LAS being one which could be handy for me in future if they remain.

I was just in Vegas last weekend. I was told (take it with a grain of sale) that Supper Shuttle will be going out of business there at the end of the month. Honestly, not sure if they meant January or February. However, in Vegas, there is still long-time shuttle operator Bell Tran ($9 each way to Strip hotels).

Looks like open time. LHR-PHL has a 16+ hour layover at PHL before going to SJU the next morning. Plenty of time to fit the PHX turnaround. It looks like CLT-LAS loses the A330 on the same schedule.

ericm2031 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

This is on routesonline this morning...another AA widebody (short-term though)!

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-in-1q20/

I wonder how long ago this was loaded. If recent, I wonder if this is due to planes being pulled from China.

A330s don't operate to China, only 777s and 787s.

Maverick623 wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

This is on routesonline this morning...another AA widebody (short-term though)!

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-in-1q20/

I wonder how long ago this was loaded. If recent, I wonder if this is due to planes being pulled from China.

A330s don't operate to China, only 777s and 787s.

I know that...but they can put the 787 on an A330 route and move the A330 to PHX since PHX doesn't see regular 787 service.

ericm2031 wrote:

Maverick623 wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

I wonder how long ago this was loaded. If recent, I wonder if this is due to planes being pulled from China.

A330s don't operate to China, only 777s and 787s.

I know that...but they can put the 787 on an A330 route and move the A330 to PHX since PHX doesn't see regular 787 service.

They’re highly likely going to be loading in some widebody shuffling over the weekend.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see things such as upguages on the DFW/LAX-TYO flights to transfer passengers onto China, if there are still flights left by then.

Is there a firm timeline on how long China flights may be suspended? If not, I don't see much schedule shuffling as there is (a) no time to market new flights, and (b) China schedules could resume but would need the shuffled equipment back. I could only see one-off aircraft upgauging day by day in some markets that already see those aircraft; e.g., they aren't going to put a 787 on a DFW-SMF run when SMF is not practiced or supplied (parts, etc.) for the equipment. Otherwise, some aircraft will just enjoy some down time.

Wingtips56 wrote:

Is there a firm timeline on how long China flights may be suspended? If not, I don't see much schedule shuffling as there is (a) no time to market new flights, and (b) China schedules could resume but would need the shuffled equipment back. I could only see one-off aircraft upgauging day by day in some markets that already see those aircraft; e.g., they aren't going to put a 787 on a DFW-SMF run when SMF is not practiced or supplied (parts, etc.) for the equipment. Otherwise, some aircraft will just enjoy some down time.

The service suspensions by the US3 announced up to now are speculative as to the ending date, I think it's fair to say. "Best guess" on the part of the airlines, based, as I heard on NBC Nightly News, on guidance from CDC.

And I don't think we're talking about "schedule shuffling" but rather equipment shuffling...upgauging certain flights to widebodies that are demonstrating heavy demand.

As to aircraft "enjoying down time" it was said in another thread (I forget which one) that United at least is considering, or maybe actually planning at this point, on doing a deep-clean/decontamination on those aircraft, which apparently can take up to 24hrs. So I could see that during this China suspension they, and probably AA & DL too, might rotate all their widebodies thru such a process. I think it would be prudent given that CDC and WHO have now been saying that the virus can linger on surfaces for a good while.

MO11 wrote:

Looks like open time. LHR-PHL has a 16+ hour layover at PHL before going to SJU the next morning. Plenty of time to fit the PHX turnaround. It looks like CLT-LAS loses the A330 on the same schedule.

Makes perfect sense. Why let a widebody sit idle for so long when they could upgauge a popular route with seemingly high demand and shift the narrowbody to a market where they can use it as a sub for a grounded MAX?

cathay747 wrote:

MO11 wrote:

Looks like open time. LHR-PHL has a 16+ hour layover at PHL before going to SJU the next morning. Plenty of time to fit the PHX turnaround. It looks like CLT-LAS loses the A330 on the same schedule.

Makes perfect sense. Why let a widebody sit idle for so long when they could upgauge a popular route with seemingly high demand and shift the narrowbody to a market where they can use it as a sub for a grounded MAX?

The 330 already had this scheduled down time and that likely was originally going to be used for a MX touch which is why it hadn't been upgauged. Changes in 330 fleet routing have nothing to do with China since they didnt fly there. My guess is this is an attempt to get another MX touch in CLT before sending it on the CLT-PHX-HNL run as the 330 reliability has not been good the past three to four weeks with them getting stuck in HNL or PHX repeatedly.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

MO11 wrote:

Looks like open time. LHR-PHL has a 16+ hour layover at PHL before going to SJU the next morning. Plenty of time to fit the PHX turnaround. It looks like CLT-LAS loses the A330 on the same schedule.

Makes perfect sense. Why let a widebody sit idle for so long when they could upgauge a popular route with seemingly high demand and shift the narrowbody to a market where they can use it as a sub for a grounded MAX?

The 330 already had this scheduled down time and that likely was originally going to be used for a MX touch which is why it hadn't been upgauged. Changes in 330 fleet routing have nothing to do with China since they didnt fly there. My guess is this is an attempt to get another MX touch in CLT before sending it on the CLT-PHX-HNL run as the 330 reliability has not been good the past three to four weeks with them getting stuck in HNL or PHX repeatedly.

Indeed. I'm guessing the LHR-CLT plane will get the MX touch on an extended layover (in lieu of the LAS turn) before heading for PHX-HNL the next morning

Hey guys...I was watching YouTube vids this weekend of a new guy "Gear Up" (maybe it's one of you?? LOL) with great PHX spotting vids, and what caught my eye and surprised the hell out of me was where he caught several PrimeAir 763's either coming in from or going to ANC! I know Amazon has at least one rather large distribution center here, but I was just shocked to see they're running flights to/from ANC! Partly because I wouldn't have thought that Alaska was a Prime "delivery area" like so many things which have the disclaimer about HI and AK being excluded for obvious reasons. Anybody have any more info about this? PHX is their closest distrib. center for AK???

UA is now in T3N.

Vctony wrote:

UA is now in T3N.

Do we have photos yet?

cathay747 wrote:

Hey guys...I was watching YouTube vids this weekend of a new guy "Gear Up" (maybe it's one of you?? LOL) with great PHX spotting vids, and what caught my eye and surprised the hell out of me was where he caught several PrimeAir 763's either coming in from or going to ANC! I know Amazon has at least one rather large distribution center here, but I was just shocked to see they're running flights to/from ANC! Partly because I wouldn't have thought that Alaska was a Prime "delivery area" like so many things which have the disclaimer about HI and AK being excluded for obvious reasons. Anybody have any more info about this? PHX is their closest distrib. center for AK???

Without looking at ANC ,I would assume they use ANC same way as every other cargo operator there. Refuel, recrew, cross load, etc.

sprxUSA wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Hey guys...I was watching YouTube vids this weekend of a new guy "Gear Up" (maybe it's one of you?? LOL) with great PHX spotting vids, and what caught my eye and surprised the hell out of me was where he caught several PrimeAir 763's either coming in from or going to ANC! I know Amazon has at least one rather large distribution center here, but I was just shocked to see they're running flights to/from ANC! Partly because I wouldn't have thought that Alaska was a Prime "delivery area" like so many things which have the disclaimer about HI and AK being excluded for obvious reasons. Anybody have any more info about this? PHX is their closest distrib. center for AK???

Without looking at ANC ,I would assume they use ANC same way as every other cargo operator there. Refuel, recrew, cross load, etc.

Unless Amazon is now also running PrimeAir to Asia and I don't know about that either, then no, that's not it.

Vctony wrote:

UA is now in T3N.

For whom the bell tolls...it tolls for T2.

cathay747 wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Hey guys...I was watching YouTube vids this weekend of a new guy "Gear Up" (maybe it's one of you?? LOL) with great PHX spotting vids, and what caught my eye and surprised the hell out of me was where he caught several PrimeAir 763's either coming in from or going to ANC! I know Amazon has at least one rather large distribution center here, but I was just shocked to see they're running flights to/from ANC! Partly because I wouldn't have thought that Alaska was a Prime "delivery area" like so many things which have the disclaimer about HI and AK being excluded for obvious reasons. Anybody have any more info about this? PHX is their closest distrib. center for AK???

Without looking at ANC ,I would assume they use ANC same way as every other cargo operator there. Refuel, recrew, cross load, etc.

Unless Amazon is now also running PrimeAir to Asia and I don't know about that either, then no, that's not it.

You're positive Amazon isn't picking up product in Asia to bring back to its warehouses here in the US?

Sad to see T2 officially close. Was able to run by after I landed today and got to see the mural and the Phoenix with the compass in the floor. T3 looks nice, but I still haven't been airside in the new terminal. Seems weird. Will be weird to have to add time for security now too.

alasizon wrote:

My guess is this is an attempt to get another MX touch in CLT before sending it on the CLT-PHX-HNL run as the 330 reliability has not been good the past three to four weeks with them getting stuck in HNL or PHX repeatedly.

Speaking of broken A330s, there's one nestled amongst the A321s and 757s at the AA hangar. Not sure what happened to it, but it's been there since I landed last Friday, on an AA A330 from CLT.

Any word on the new United Club? Is it opening with the new concourse, or will the opening come later?

chrisair wrote:

Sad to see T2 officially close. Was able to run by after I landed today and got to see the mural and the Phoenix with the compass in the floor. T3 looks nice, but I still haven't been airside in the new terminal. Seems weird. Will be weird to have to add time for security now too.

alasizon wrote:

My guess is this is an attempt to get another MX touch in CLT before sending it on the CLT-PHX-HNL run as the 330 reliability has not been good the past three to four weeks with them getting stuck in HNL or PHX repeatedly.

Speaking of broken A330s, there's one nestled amongst the A321s and 757s at the AA hangar. Not sure what happened to it, but it's been there since I landed last Friday, on an AA A330 from CLT.

Didn't the airport say they are keeping the mural?

Re: Security in T3. I flew out of there last week on Spirit, and for security us non-fast trackers had to walk past a dog. What's he sniffing for? Coronavirus? Diabetes? Narcotics? Cash? They didn't say. They just said walk past him at a normal pace.

hz747300 wrote:

Didn't the airport say they are keeping the mural?

Re: Security in T3. I flew out of there last week on Spirit, and for security us non-fast trackers had to walk past a dog. What's he sniffing for? Coronavirus? Diabetes? Narcotics? Cash? They didn't say. They just said walk past him at a normal pace.

Yes, they will be preserving the mural.

TSA/DHS has quite a few explosive detection dogs, so that's likely what you saw. TSA doesn't act in a law enforcement capacity, so they'd have no reason to utilize dogs for narcotics or currency.

CBP is law enforcement, so they deploy a range of dogs for narcotics, currency, and explosives, as well as agriculture detection dogs (they're easy to tell the difference because they're usually beagles).

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

Without looking at ANC ,I would assume they use ANC same way as every other cargo operator there. Refuel, recrew, cross load, etc.

Unless Amazon is now also running PrimeAir to Asia and I don't know about that either, then no, that's not it.

You're positive Amazon isn't picking up product in Asia to bring back to its warehouses here in the US?

No I'm not, hence why I said "Unless Amazon is now also running PrimeAir to Asia and I don't know about that either". But given their fleet size & the utilization I sort of know about, that strikes me as being odd that they'd run empty ferries over to Asia to pick up products? Not saying it's impossible, but seems unlikely to me.

chrisair wrote:

Sad to see T2 officially close. Was able to run by after I landed today and got to see the mural and the Phoenix with the compass in the floor. T3 looks nice, but I still haven't been airside in the new terminal. Seems weird. Will be weird to have to add time for security now too.

Honestly, I don't think you'll have to add much time most of the day... Over the past couple years both with and before I had pre-check they only ever had 1-2 lanes open, and things were pretty much a breeze. The only time of day I can see being an issue is between 6-8am, but IIRC they have considerable lane capacity if they want to utilize it.

Just as a general comment I find PHX to be pretty much the best airport when it comes to having consistently low security wait times. Occasionally, I get annoyed at how terrible CLE can be in comparison at certain times.

Just learned that apparently yesterday, JSX announced new service PHX/SNA! YAY!!! Will begin 03MAR. It's on their website.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

Honestly, I don't think you'll have to add much time most of the day... Over the past couple years both with and before I had pre-check they only ever had 1-2 lanes open, and things were pretty much a breeze. The only time of day I can see being an issue is between 6-8am, but IIRC they have considerable lane capacity if they want to utilize it.

Good info. I’m usually on a 7a Alaska flight, so I’ll have to learn my new routine. I agree with your comment about security generally being pretty good at PHX. Except last Sunday at 830p. No PreCheck except A and lines to the metal roll down gates. It was faster to go through Clear/Pre at A and hike back to the low C than wait in the C security line even with Clear.

atcsundevil wrote:

Any word on the new United Club? Is it opening with the new concourse, or will the opening come later?

No UA club now. It’s “coming eventually” (or so they say).

chrisair wrote:

No UA club now. It’s “coming eventually” (or so they say).

I had a few people message me and say that it is in the works. More specific info just isn't public, so I won't share it. The delay is a bit surprising to me though. The fits and finishes on a place that's only a few thousand square feet really shouldn't take more than a couple of months at most, but it appears it will take quite a bit longer. All I can figure is that the delay is in waiting on design plans.

Does anyone remember if the Delta Sky Club opened with the F Concourse, or did that have a delayed opening as well? I'm just curious if this is par for the course or if United isn't as on their game.

atcsundevil wrote:

chrisair wrote:

No UA club now. It’s “coming eventually” (or so they say).

I had a few people message me and say that it is in the works. More specific info just isn't public, so I won't share it. The delay is a bit surprising to me though. The fits and finishes on a place that's only a few thousand square feet really shouldn't take more than a couple of months at most, but it appears it will take quite a bit longer. All I can figure is that the delay is in waiting on design plans.

Does anyone remember if the Delta Sky Club opened with the F Concourse, or did that have a delayed opening as well? I'm just curious if this is par for the course or if United isn't as on their game.

If I remember right the Delta Club did not open immediately, but it was not long after the F concourse opened, within a week or two.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

If I remember right the Delta Club did not open immediately, but it was not long after the F concourse opened, within a week or two.

That's what I thought. A short gap is reasonable, but several months is a bit curious. It isn't as if they were unaware this was coming.

atcsundevil wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

If I remember right the Delta Club did not open immediately, but it was not long after the F concourse opened, within a week or two.

That's what I thought. A short gap is reasonable, but several months is a bit curious. It isn't as if they were unaware this was coming.

According to my buddy who is with a significant contractor down at the airport there is still a ton of work to be done, and while the new concourse is open, there is a lot still going on behind the scenes. Take with a grain of salt as he is not directly on this project, but that may explain some of the delay.

atcsundevil wrote:

A short gap is reasonable, but several months is a bit curious. It isn't as if they were unaware this was coming.

I wonder if UA was trying to make the business case to build one and they missed the deadline to get it in at the beginning. The UA Club people I talked to did say it was coming, but they didn't make it sound like it would be anytime soon.

Hopefully it'll be in time for the snowman Christmas tree to make an appearance again.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

If I remember right the Delta Club did not open immediately, but it was not long after the F concourse opened, within a week or two.

That's what I thought. A short gap is reasonable, but several months is a bit curious. It isn't as if they were unaware this was coming.

According to my buddy who is with a significant contractor down at the airport there is still a ton of work to be done, and while the new concourse is open, there is a lot still going on behind the scenes. Take with a grain of salt as he is not directly on this project, but that may explain some of the delay.

T3N is open but there is still a bunch of work going on for the support spaces, the concessions and the club.

atcsundevil wrote:

I had a few people message me and say that it is in the works. More specific info just isn't public, so I won't share it. The delay is a bit surprising to me though. The fits and finishes on a place that's only a few thousand square feet really shouldn't take more than a couple of months at most, but it appears it will take quite a bit longer. All I can figure is that the delay is in waiting on design plans.

To be fair the Centurion/Escape lounge took about a year and a half on N4 but that was also a complete gut and rearrange for a much bigger space. UA would have known that the club was coming since it's not like T3N as a project just suddenly popped up so my guess is either the design got held up for whatever reason or the plan got held at the City level during the review process and UA had to go back and make changes.

Anybody know what the Hi Fly A343 was in PHX for?

With AS joining Oneworld and the expansion of the AA and AS partnership, any chance they end up moving to T4 to be with AA and BA?

Vctony wrote:

With AS joining Oneworld and the expansion of the AA and AS partnership, any chance they end up moving to T4 to be with AA and BA?

AS moving to Terminal 4 might be a possibility as AS would be able to more easily connect passengers onto AA's PHX-Mexico flights if AS moves over to Terminal 4.

TUSPHX wrote:

Anybody know what the Hi Fly A343 was in PHX for?

Belgian military charter.

TUSPHX wrote:

Anybody know what the Hi Fly A343 was in PHX for?

Looks like 9H-SOL went BRU-JFK -PHX-YUM-JFK-BRU. Just wondering why Belgian forces couldn't fly non-stop from BRU-YUM? They have a 13,000ft runway there?

Vctony wrote:

With AS joining Oneworld and the expansion of the AA and AS partnership, any chance they end up moving to T4 to be with AA and BA?

I know its been said previously in this thread that AA is realllly tight on gates certain times of day. On the other hand AS is only 12 flights, and AC is moving out of T4 so there might be some room.

On a somewhat related note, kind of crazy that AA is willing to risk resources for SEA-BLR but not PHX-TYO.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

.On a somewhat related note, kind of crazy that AA is willing to risk resources for SEA-BLR but not PHX-TYO.

One big difference between SEA-BLR and PHX-TYO is that AA already offers 1-stop connecting options onto its LAX-TYO flights and JL's LAX/SAN/SFO/SEA/YVR-TYO flights from PHX, whereas AA doesn't currently serve BLR.

Another big difference is that it doesn't make sense for SEA-BLR O&D traffic to connect through an AA hub in the U.S as connecting to BLR from SEA through an AA hub in the U.S. is so far out of the way, whereas it might make sense to connect onto a JL flight to TYO out of a West Coast airport from PHX.

Vctony wrote:

With AS joining Oneworld and the expansion of the AA and AS partnership, any chance they end up moving to T4 to be with AA and BA?

Not a chance right now, there simply isn't room for two dedicated AS gates plus sharing others. AS has four RONs plus an early morning arrival from SEA/ANC which would flow right into AA's busiest banks.

There are already plans to connect T3 to T4 airside and build an additional concourse where the AA C-Point facility is today next to taxiway Tango so eventually they won't have to reclear security but as it stands today the number of interline connections in PHX aren't that high.

alasizon wrote:

Not a chance right now, there simply isn't room for two dedicated AS gates plus sharing others. AS has four RONs plus an early morning arrival from SEA/ANC which would flow right into AA's busiest banks.

There are already plans to connect T3 to T4 airside and build an additional concourse where the AA C-Point facility is today next to taxiway Tango so eventually they won't have to reclear security but as it stands today the number of interline connections in PHX aren't that high.

Is it a foregone conclusion that Southwest will get the yet-to-be-built gates in the D Concourse?

MO11 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Not a chance right now, there simply isn't room for two dedicated AS gates plus sharing others. AS has four RONs plus an early morning arrival from SEA/ANC which would flow right into AA's busiest banks.

There are already plans to connect T3 to T4 airside and build an additional concourse where the AA C-Point facility is today next to taxiway Tango so eventually they won't have to reclear security but as it stands today the number of interline connections in PHX aren't that high.

Is it a foregone conclusion that Southwest will get the yet-to-be-built gates in the D Concourse?

Sadly, yes. WN has already committed to them and is footing part of the bill for S1.

The only talk has been about WN releasing some of their gates in S4 (C11-C19) since their utilization is already low but WN has wanted to hold onto the gates and the City has had some second thoughts from my understanding since by WN having all 32 gates on the south side there is no room for AA expansion or further INTL carriers.

There has been talk repeatedly of WN growing to 200-215 departures a day but each time it has stalled at 180ish (currently stalled by the MAX).

I would love to see S4 go all CUTE and get a refresh because it would allow expansion for WS, AA and WN as opposed to the north side just getting more and more crowded which is taxing the space resources as is. Plus, S4 is just in desperate need of a refresh anyhow.

MO11 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Not a chance right now, there simply isn't room for two dedicated AS gates plus sharing others. AS has four RONs plus an early morning arrival from SEA/ANC which would flow right into AA's busiest banks.

There are already plans to connect T3 to T4 airside and build an additional concourse where the AA C-Point facility is today next to taxiway Tango so eventually they won't have to reclear security but as it stands today the number of interline connections in PHX aren't that high.

Is it a foregone conclusion that Southwest will get the yet-to-be-built gates in the D Concourse?

WN has announced that it will get those gates. My understanding is that WN will have all of the gates in the D concourse and the low C gates (C1-C9) but it may or may not give up some or all of the "high C" gates (C11-C19).

Osubuckeyes wrote:

Vctony wrote:

With AS joining Oneworld and the expansion of the AA and AS partnership, any chance they end up moving to T4 to be with AA and BA?

I know its been said previously in this thread that AA is realllly tight on gates certain times of day. On the other hand AS is only 12 flights, and AC is moving out of T4 so there might be some room.

On a somewhat related note, kind of crazy that AA is willing to risk resources for SEA-BLR but not PHX-TYO.

Apparently there's a lot of tech companies in the BLR area, so connecting it with the SEA HQ of the "Evil Empire" seems to make sense (and I guess there's other tech in the SEA area besides Microsoft?). Clearly something we don't have yet, at least not to the degree necessary. I am stunned at this development, but sure am thrilled that AS will now be a full tie-in with AAdvantage!!!

cathay747 wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

Vctony wrote:

With AS joining Oneworld and the expansion of the AA and AS partnership, any chance they end up moving to T4 to be with AA and BA?

I know its been said previously in this thread that AA is realllly tight on gates certain times of day. On the other hand AS is only 12 flights, and AC is moving out of T4 so there might be some room.

On a somewhat related note, kind of crazy that AA is willing to risk resources for SEA-BLR but not PHX-TYO.

Apparently there's a lot of tech companies in the BLR area, so connecting it with the SEA HQ of the "Evil Empire" seems to make sense (and I guess there's other tech in the SEA area besides Microsoft?). Clearly something we don't have yet, at least not to the degree necessary. I am stunned at this development, but sure am thrilled that AS will now be a full tie-in with AAdvantage!!!

I do understand the justifications of such a route. I am a bit surprised at the the aggressiveness of the add, when ULH routes like this tend to be difficult operationally, high risk low reward (in terms of utilization of assets), and unexpected based on the level of feed on really only 1 end of the route. Currently PHX has no Asia connection so it would be a monopoly route to asia and connections beyond via JL with feed opportunity on both ends. The AS piece is interesting because I think the partnership combined with the route to BLR may wrestle key corporate contracts away from DL and into AA/AS's hands. Overall it will be interesting to see how this plays out especially if additional longhaul routes are added from SEA/PDX/SFO with AS feed... I think if that happens we can kiss the possibility of TPAC on AA metal goodbye. Additionally, I would say that raises the chances of JL coming versus AA, and even KE/DL to ICN.

910A wrote:

TUSPHX wrote:

Anybody know what the Hi Fly A343 was in PHX for?

Looks like 9H-SOL went BRU-JFK -PHX-YUM-JFK-BRU. Just wondering why Belgian forces couldn't fly non-stop from BRU-YUM? They have a 13,000ft runway there?

It's possible that not everyone on board was headed to YUM.

atcsundevil wrote:

910A wrote:

TUSPHX wrote:

Anybody know what the Hi Fly A343 was in PHX for?

Looks like 9H-SOL went BRU-JFK -PHX-YUM-JFK-BRU. Just wondering why Belgian forces couldn't fly non-stop from BRU-YUM? They have a 13,000ft runway there?

It's possible that not everyone on board was headed to YUM.

Quite possible since it was on the ground for quite a while in PHX. Given it was HiFly as well, I'd presume there was also a crew change or two along the way.

It's already started in the "AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway" thread, if AA and AS merge down the road that means SEA becomes a hub then PHX becomes redundant and will be the first to go blah, blah, blah. Of course I fully expect Delta to retaliate for this one!

cm642 wrote:

It's already started in the "AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway" thread, if AA and AS merge down the road that means SEA becomes a hub then PHX becomes redundant and will be the first to go blah, blah, blah. Of course I fully expect Delta to retaliate for this one!

I would love to see Delta retaliate by opening up an international route in PHX to either South America or Asia. That would be a great FU to AA since they treat PHX like a red-headed stepchild.

AZLiam wrote:

cm642 wrote:

It's already started in the "AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway" thread, if AA and AS merge down the road that means SEA becomes a hub then PHX becomes redundant and will be the first to go blah, blah, blah. Of course I fully expect Delta to retaliate for this one!

I would love to see Delta retaliate by opening up an international route in PHX to either South America or Asia. That would be a great FU to AA since they treat PHX like a red-headed stepchild.

DL isn't going to start any int'l. routes out of PHX, and AA doesn't treat PHX like a red-headed stepchild. Any DL retaliation/counter-move to this AA/AS deal will come at SEA itself (DL building it up even more than they've already done) or at MIA with their new LATAM partnership.

cm642 wrote:

It's already started in the "AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway" thread, if AA and AS merge down the road that means SEA becomes a hub then PHX becomes redundant and will be the first to go blah, blah, blah. Of course I fully expect Delta to retaliate for this one!

Yeah, and Phoenix was supposed to be dehubbed by now after the merger according to the experts on this website.

The vast majority of the people here have no clue what they're talking about. I try to stick to threads like this one where I know informed people will be participating.