Per azfamily.com, the demolition of T2 has begun in earnest, with about 1/3 of the middle section down already.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/slideshow ... ae.html#17

The final touches on T3S are waiting on the full demo of T2.

MrPeanut wrote:

The final touches on T3S are waiting on the full demo of T2.

What is left?

skyharborshome wrote:

MrPeanut wrote:

The final touches on T3S are waiting on the full demo of T2.

What is left?

Gates F11-15 on the west end.

F13-15 are for the commuters, so no more shuttle vans to East Cargo for boarding.

Ishrion wrote:

Eurowings delays PHX launch to August 2, 2020:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-24apr20/

I'd put money on this flight being delayed until next spring.

atcsundevil wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Eurowings delays PHX launch to August 2, 2020:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-24apr20/

I'd put money on this flight being delayed until next spring.

I'll call your $20, and raise you another $20.

First evidence I've seen from that post that LH will code-share on these flights as we're now seeing planned flight numbers:

The airline has revised planned service to Phoenix:
Frankfurt – Phoenix eff 02AUG20 5 weekly A330-200 (Previously scheduled from 29APR20)
EW1284/LH5438 FRA1405 – 1705PHX 332 x46
EW1285/LH5439 PHX1850 – 1500+1FRA 332 x46

According to this update on routesonline: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26apr20/

...AA to resume PHX/JFK...

The following is overall operation for 08MAY20 – 03JUN20. Additional changes remain possible.
<other routes not copied>
New York JFK – Phoenix 2 daily 737-800 (service resumption 08MAY20)

Looks like Trump will be arriving in Phoenix on Tuesday to tour Honeywell at Sky Harbor.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8132.html
In our time zone irs between 11am and 330pm. My assumption is that he will arrive here around 11, and depart here between 3 and 3:30, and tour Honeywell during that.

C17s have flown in, one a few days ago as RCH295T, and RCH297T is on its way now. For those that don’t know the “T” as in “Tango” at the end of reach callsigns mean its for VIP transport. Ironically, 295T came right before he announced he was coming to phoenix so i was very confused.

colemcandrew wrote:

Looks like Trump will be arriving in Phoenix on Tuesday to tour Honeywell at Sky Harbor.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8132.html
In our time zone irs between 11am and 330pm. My assumption is that he will arrive here around 11, and depart here between 3 and 3:30, and tour Honeywell during that.

C17s have flown in, one a few days ago as RCH295T, and RCH297T is on its way now. For those that don’t know the “T” as in “Tango” at the end of reach callsigns mean its for VIP transport. Ironically, 295T came right before he announced he was coming to phoenix so i was very confused.

At least this time, for once, the in/out movement of AF1 won't cause a big ATC/airfield disruption; it should be quite minimal in my estimation, no?

cathay747 wrote:

colemcandrew wrote:

Looks like Trump will be arriving in Phoenix on Tuesday to tour Honeywell at Sky Harbor.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8132.html
In our time zone irs between 11am and 330pm. My assumption is that he will arrive here around 11, and depart here between 3 and 3:30, and tour Honeywell during that.

C17s have flown in, one a few days ago as RCH295T, and RCH297T is on its way now. For those that don’t know the “T” as in “Tango” at the end of reach callsigns mean its for VIP transport. Ironically, 295T came right before he announced he was coming to phoenix so i was very confused.

At least this time, for once, the in/out movement of AF1 won't cause a big ATC/airfield disruption; it should be quite minimal in my estimation, no?

The inbound time will be a hassle more so than the outbound but if he tours the on-site Honeywell plant it'll be a much bigger headache as it'll restrict access to a large amount of the airfield currently being used for aircraft storage and aircraft are constantly being rotated or worked on out there.

cathay747 wrote:

colemcandrew wrote:

Looks like Trump will be arriving in Phoenix on Tuesday to tour Honeywell at Sky Harbor.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8132.html
In our time zone irs between 11am and 330pm. My assumption is that he will arrive here around 11, and depart here between 3 and 3:30, and tour Honeywell during that.

C17s have flown in, one a few days ago as RCH295T, and RCH297T is on its way now. For those that don’t know the “T” as in “Tango” at the end of reach callsigns mean its for VIP transport. Ironically, 295T came right before he announced he was coming to phoenix so i was very confused.

At least this time, for once, the in/out movement of AF1 won't cause a big ATC/airfield disruption; it should be quite minimal in my estimation, no?

It'll be the perfect time to visit PHX..there is no better time, believe me...it'll be beautiful...fantastic actually. Any other time would be a disaster - we all know that.

jmc1975 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

colemcandrew wrote:

Looks like Trump will be arriving in Phoenix on Tuesday to tour Honeywell at Sky Harbor.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8132.html
In our time zone irs between 11am and 330pm. My assumption is that he will arrive here around 11, and depart here between 3 and 3:30, and tour Honeywell during that./quote]
At least this time, for once, the in/out movement of AF1 won't cause a big ATC/airfield disruption; it should be quite minimal in my estimation, no?

It'll be the perfect time to visit PHX..there is no better time, believe me...it'll be beautiful...fantastic actually. Any other time would be a disaster - we all know that.

ROFL...it'll be a perfect visit, and the virus will, you know, disappear magically when he leaves.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

colemcandrew wrote:

Looks like Trump will be arriving in Phoenix on Tuesday to tour Honeywell at Sky Harbor.
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_8132.html
In our time zone irs between 11am and 330pm. My assumption is that he will arrive here around 11, and depart here between 3 and 3:30, and tour Honeywell during that.

C17s have flown in, one a few days ago as RCH295T, and RCH297T is on its way now. For those that don’t know the “T” as in “Tango” at the end of reach callsigns mean its for VIP transport. Ironically, 295T came right before he announced he was coming to phoenix so i was very confused.

At least this time, for once, the in/out movement of AF1 won't cause a big ATC/airfield disruption; it should be quite minimal in my estimation, no?

The inbound time will be a hassle more so than the outbound but if he tours the on-site Honeywell plant it'll be a much bigger headache as it'll restrict access to a large amount of the airfield currently being used for aircraft storage and aircraft are constantly being rotated or worked on out there.

I'm curious...why is the inbound time going to be such a hassle? ...and it's not if he tours Honeywell, that's the whole reason he's coming per all news reports. Oh, wait...maybe not...I forgot, the news is fake. LOL I've not been out to PHX since flying to SBN back in Sept., so I'm not familiar with the aircraft storage that's been done as I've seen no pics; I take it from your comment that a large # of them are on the north side of the field since that's where Honeywell is located?

cathay747 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

At least this time, for once, the in/out movement of AF1 won't cause a big ATC/airfield disruption; it should be quite minimal in my estimation, no?

The inbound time will be a hassle more so than the outbound but if he tours the on-site Honeywell plant it'll be a much bigger headache as it'll restrict access to a large amount of the airfield currently being used for aircraft storage and aircraft are constantly being rotated or worked on out there.

I'm curious...why is the inbound time going to be such a hassle? ...and it's not if he tours Honeywell, that's the whole reason he's coming per all news reports. Oh, wait...maybe not...I forgot, the news is fake. LOL I've not been out to PHX since flying to SBN back in Sept., so I'm not familiar with the aircraft storage that's been done as I've seen no pics; I take it from your comment that a large # of them are on the north side of the field since that's where Honeywell is located?

The inbound period is just a time of higher traffic overall compared to the outbound time.

I more so meant, where all at Honeywell he will be during his tour (since the campus is huge), being at the airside buildings will make it hard for airlines to do their jobs when it comes to moving aircraft. There are RJs over off taxiway A3 and A4, AA mainline is in the west hold bay, UA and WN are at Executive, WN and AS are in the center hold bay, WN is in the East Hold Bay and UA is on the T3N pads.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

The inbound time will be a hassle more so than the outbound but if he tours the on-site Honeywell plant it'll be a much bigger headache as it'll restrict access to a large amount of the airfield currently being used for aircraft storage and aircraft are constantly being rotated or worked on out there.

I'm curious...why is the inbound time going to be such a hassle? ...and it's not if he tours Honeywell, that's the whole reason he's coming per all news reports. Oh, wait...maybe not...I forgot, the news is fake. LOL I've not been out to PHX since flying to SBN back in Sept., so I'm not familiar with the aircraft storage that's been done as I've seen no pics; I take it from your comment that a large # of them are on the north side of the field since that's where Honeywell is located?

The inbound period is just a time of higher traffic overall compared to the outbound time.

I more so meant, where all at Honeywell he will be during his tour (since the campus is huge), being at the airside buildings will make it hard for airlines to do their jobs when it comes to moving aircraft. There are RJs over off taxiway A3 and A4, AA mainline is in the west hold bay, UA and WN are at Executive, WN and AS are in the center hold bay, WN is in the East Hold Bay and UA is on the T3N pads.

AH SO...thanks. Didn't realize there were so many parked all over the place. Wow. Also wasn't aware that with such a paltry level of ops that anytime, much less specifically around 1100, there would be a traffic issue, and I also didn't know that Honeywell was a "huge campus" I've only ever noticed one building with their name on it. Much to learn from your post, thanks again!

cathay747 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

I'm curious...why is the inbound time going to be such a hassle? ...and it's not if he tours Honeywell, that's the whole reason he's coming per all news reports. Oh, wait...maybe not...I forgot, the news is fake. LOL I've not been out to PHX since flying to SBN back in Sept., so I'm not familiar with the aircraft storage that's been done as I've seen no pics; I take it from your comment that a large # of them are on the north side of the field since that's where Honeywell is located?

The inbound period is just a time of higher traffic overall compared to the outbound time.

I more so meant, where all at Honeywell he will be during his tour (since the campus is huge), being at the airside buildings will make it hard for airlines to do their jobs when it comes to moving aircraft. There are RJs over off taxiway A3 and A4, AA mainline is in the west hold bay, UA and WN are at Executive, WN and AS are in the center hold bay, WN is in the East Hold Bay and UA is on the T3N pads.

AH SO...thanks. Didn't realize there were so many parked all over the place. Wow. Also wasn't aware that with such a paltry level of ops that anytime, much less specifically around 1100, there would be a traffic issue, and I also didn't know that Honeywell was a "huge campus" I've only ever noticed one building with their name on it. Much to learn from your post, thanks again!

I believe in one of the previous threads, maybe earlier in this one there is a land use diagram in the Master Plan Document. This diagram shows how expansive Honeywell is across that North side.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

I believe in one of the previous threads, maybe earlier in this one there is a land use diagram in the Master Plan Document. This diagram shows how expansive Honeywell is across that North side.

The Honeywell campus more or less spans from 38th Street to 28th Street.

Wonder if they’ll have to move those train cars that have been sitting over 44th Street for more than 12 months.

chrisair wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

I believe in one of the previous threads, maybe earlier in this one there is a land use diagram in the Master Plan Document. This diagram shows how expansive Honeywell is across that North side.

The Honeywell campus more or less spans from 38th Street to 28th Street.

Wonder if they’ll have to move those train cars that have been sitting over 44th Street for more than 12 months.

That doesn't even count the Honeywell corporate buildings off Sky Harbor Circle west of 24th St.

alasizon wrote:

That doesn't even count the Honeywell corporate buildings off Sky Harbor Circle west of 24th St.

Yep. They have a huge presence in the Valley and really Arizona as a whole.

Speaking of 24th Street, I took a little drive through PHX this afternoon and went the back way to 24th Street. You now drive on that bus road between the old Hertz lot and the airfield. It’s weird seeing all the excess rental cars stacked up in there as well as the huge amount of WN planes stacked up by the Executive terminal.

T4 did seem busier than before. There were people waiting for Ubers. Last month when I drove by I was the only car on the road.

I live out in east Mesa, we had rental cars piled up all the way out here.

I was poking around on F24 this morning and saw an interesting flight. Allegiant had a flight going from AZA to ANC. Must be a ferry of some sort as it appears G4 only flies to ANC from Washington state.

Nonrevhell wrote:

phxtristar wrote:

Nonrevhell wrote:

HP never pushed for PHX-SYD non-stop, it was always going to be through HNL.

HP never flew to Tokyo or to Sydney, the flights were from HNL-NGO.

I'm certain this is very correct.

I worked for HP for a long time, amazing to read the myths about what actually happened!

Decided to catch up on the PHX thread as I lived in northern AZ for 19 years and flew HP exclusively. Wasn’t there some connection between HP and Ansett Australian that they would link HP PHXHNL to Ansett’s HNLSYD? Then at some point HP took a few of Ansetts 737-377 and talks about 767s happened but never materialized?im trying to find it online.

Where’d you work for HP? Had some good years flying them!

flyboy7974 wrote:

Decided to catch up on the PHX thread as I lived in northern AZ for 19 years and flew HP exclusively. Wasn’t there some connection between HP and Ansett Australian that they would link HP PHXHNL to Ansett’s HNLSYD? Then at some point HP took a few of Ansetts 737-377 and talks about 767s happened but never materialized?im trying to find it online.

Ansett's parent took a 21.6% stake in America West in 1986 and yes, some Ansett 737s were leased to America West. It applied to fly between PHX and SYD, but its application was rejected,

MO11 wrote:

flyboy7974 wrote:

Decided to catch up on the PHX thread as I lived in northern AZ for 19 years and flew HP exclusively. Wasn’t there some connection between HP and Ansett Australian that they would link HP PHXHNL to Ansett’s HNLSYD? Then at some point HP took a few of Ansetts 737-377 and talks about 767s happened but never materialized?im trying to find it online.

It applied to fly between PHX and SYD, but its application was rejected,

And just as well. An even more absurd route idea than flying to NGO. They could have more easily just piled several million dollars on their ramp and set fire to it. Really makes you wonder what the credentials of their route planners was, or what were they smoking. IMHO. Hell, they couldn't even make HNL work in the end.

PHX Twitter put out some photos of the new concourse in T4 construction:

https://twitter.com/PHXSkyHarbor/status ... 9432307714

I’ve been noticing on FR24 the last few days that departures are utilizing 7R/25L and 8/26 at KPHX. What’s the reasoning behind this? Haven’t seen anything posted.

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

I’ve been noticing on FR24 the last few days that departures are utilizing 7R/25L and 8/26 at KPHX. What’s the reasoning behind this? Haven’t seen anything posted.

7L/25R is closed for lighting upgrades until 5/18

cathay747 wrote:

MO11 wrote:

flyboy7974 wrote:

Decided to catch up on the PHX thread as I lived in northern AZ for 19 years and flew HP exclusively. Wasn’t there some connection between HP and Ansett Australian that they would link HP PHXHNL to Ansett’s HNLSYD? Then at some point HP took a few of Ansetts 737-377 and talks about 767s happened but never materialized?im trying to find it online.

It applied to fly between PHX and SYD, but its application was rejected,

And just as well. An even more absurd route idea than flying to NGO. They could have more easily just piled several million dollars on their ramp and set fire to it. Really makes you wonder what the credentials of their route planners was, or what were they smoking. IMHO. Hell, they couldn't even make HNL work in the end.

NGO was the direct result if I’m not mistaken of their NRT application being denied as well. While it does seem absurd today to think that they could have served both SYD and NRT, it was also a much different time for airlines. Load factors averaged in the low 60s. On top of the stochastic nature of passenger demand, there also weren’t a lot of data points to be basing route planning decisions off especially in long-haul markets. I’m sure a lot of route planning consisted of a what-if scenario coming down from executive’s office that was validated with a few back-of-an-envelope calculations.

Throw in the oil price shock and recession, and it’s easy to see why they couldn’t hang on in a market like HNL with a 747–200. That’s not to say HP wasn’t overly ambitious at the time either, but I believe ATA entered the PHX-Hawaii market soon after HP terminated its service so there was certainly money to be made there with the right aircraft.

wn676 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

MO11 wrote:

It applied to fly between PHX and SYD, but its application was rejected,

And just as well. An even more absurd route idea than flying to NGO. They could have more easily just piled several million dollars on their ramp and set fire to it. Really makes you wonder what the credentials of their route planners was, or what were they smoking. IMHO. Hell, they couldn't even make HNL work in the end.

NGO was the direct result if I’m not mistaken of their NRT application being denied as well. While it does seem absurd today to think that they could have served both SYD and NRT, it was also a much different time for airlines. Load factors averaged in the low 60s. On top of the stochastic nature of passenger demand, there also weren’t a lot of data points to be basing route planning decisions off especially in long-haul markets. I’m sure a lot of route planning consisted of a what-if scenario coming down from executive’s office that was validated with a few back-of-an-envelope calculations.

Throw in the oil price shock and recession, and it’s easy to see why they couldn’t hang on in a market like HNL with a 747–200. That’s not to say HP wasn’t overly ambitious at the time either, but I believe ATA entered the PHX-Hawaii market soon after HP terminated its service so there was certainly money to be made there with the right aircraft.

You're 100% correct about NGO being sloppy-seconds for the denied NRT route. You also make some very interesting points further on; something I didn't think about is that airlines didn't have super-duper-whiz-bang computer programs to crunch the level of data there is today to base network planning on. The only thing I'd even slightly take issue with of your comments is about TZ entering the PHX-HI market...I'm not speaking to the timing, but rather to point out that back then, TZ's Hawaii services were largely "fed" by their tie-in with Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays, whom IIRC bought large blocks of seats (if not the entire aircraft sometimes) so TZ had guaranteed revenue...Pleasant was the one with the capacity and P&L risk, not TZ. So that may explain their success as HP didn't have that.

The main problem with PHX-HNL was not the market, but rather the aircraft size. With their traffic flows at PHX, the 747 was simply too large. And NGO was not the correct continuing route. If they could have done NRT or SYD, HP would have had a fighting chance possibly flying a DC10 or L011.

formeraa wrote:

The main problem with PHX-HNL was not the market, but rather the aircraft size. With their traffic flows at PHX, the 747 was simply too large. And NGO was not the correct continuing route. If they could have done NRT or SYD, HP would have had a fighting chance possibly flying a DC10 or L011.

Oh, agreed, the 747 was way too big! Should have added that to my comments. Although even with something as small as a Cessna, I don't think SYD would have worked; maybe NRT, if they'd gotten it, could have, with something no bigger than a DC-10-30 or L-1011-500. Wouldn't that have been fun/interesting to see one of those two types in HP's livery?

How did day 1 of mandatory masks go at the airport? Do you have to take them off at TSA checkpoints to verify identity or did they stop that as well? I was supposed to be flying out and had my mask ready however the trip was cancelled yesterday afternoon.

skyharborshome wrote:

How did day 1 of mandatory masks go at the airport? Do you have to take them off at TSA checkpoints to verify identity or did they stop that as well? I was supposed to be flying out and had my mask ready however the trip was cancelled yesterday afternoon.

Still have to take them off for TSA. There was no enforcement by the city from what I saw.

Looks like JSX has scaled back to only one flight a day: PHX-BUR.

According to Southwest's schedule extension they are adding MEM and LGB nonstop as well as adding frequency to other cities starting in November.... We'll see if that remains going forward

AA axes OAK and may end up significantly smaller if WN really gets aggressive.

Anyone know anything about N620FB?

It's a PC12 that seems to be owned by the city of PHX and presumably operated by Phoenix PD. It seems to be some sort of surveillance platform which is a pretty advanced capability for a city police department.

This is footage taken from her a few years ago for something unrelated:

https://youtu.be/lSR1-co1vxg

It's been doing laps over downtown all day long at a fairly lowish altitude.

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

Anyone know anything about N620FB?

It's a PC12 that seems to be owned by the city of PHX and presumably operated by Phoenix PD. It seems to be some sort of surveillance platform which is a pretty advanced capability for a city police department.

This is footage taken from her a few years ago for something unrelated:

https://youtu.be/lSR1-co1vxg

It's been doing laps over downtown all day long at a fairly lowish altitude.

Wild guess but it’s likely trying to watch for rioters and direct PD to them before damage occurs. If they were going all day maybe also scanning for staged riot supplies so they can be removed before evening.

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

Anyone know anything about N620FB?

It's a PC12 that seems to be owned by the city of PHX and presumably operated by Phoenix PD. It seems to be some sort of surveillance platform which is a pretty advanced capability for a city police department.

This is footage taken from her a few years ago for something unrelated:

https://youtu.be/lSR1-co1vxg

It's been doing laps over downtown all day long at a fairly lowish altitude.

Phoenix PD (FB = Firebird, like on the helicopters). It has FLIR equipment, among other things.

MO11 wrote:

Phoenix PD (FB = Firebird, like on the helicopters). It has FLIR equipment, among other things.

Yeah, I'm impressed with the capability. I found an article on PHX PD's air fleet at azcentral - apparently this is one of four fixed wing airplanes they have in addition to their helicopters.

chrisair wrote:

Looks like JSX has scaled back to only one flight a day: PHX-BUR.

Clear indication IMHO that even with casino's (and other things like shows) reopening in Vegas, there must be zero traffic/advance bookings for PHX/LAS which was their biggest market out of here; I'm thinking because most people feel a casino or show environment is too risky still, as I do. I sure hope this COVID disaster doesn't kill off JSX, they're a terrific operation.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

According to Southwest's schedule extension they are adding MEM and LGB nonstop as well as adding frequency to other cities starting in November.... We'll see if that remains going forward

AA axes OAK and may end up significantly smaller if WN really gets aggressive.

I'm thrilled about LGB as we have friends there! Hopefully it will push fares down since AA won't have a monopoly any longer; we went last June and I cashed in miles because the fare was so outrageously high; thankfully AA has the reduced award for trips less-than-500 miles. Would also be nice flying on a 737 vs. a CRJ which I detest.

cathay747 wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

According to Southwest's schedule extension they are adding MEM and LGB nonstop as well as adding frequency to other cities starting in November.... We'll see if that remains going forward

AA axes OAK and may end up significantly smaller if WN really gets aggressive.

I'm thrilled about LGB as we have friends there! Hopefully it will push fares down since AA won't have a monopoly any longer; we went last June and I cashed in miles because the fare was so outrageously high; thankfully AA has the reduced award for trips less-than-500 miles. Would also be nice flying on a 737 vs. a CRJ which I detest.

PHX-LGB has always been the lowest yielding of the PHX-SoCal routes so I doubt fares will come down much as there is no benefit for AA or WN to run a cash negative flight. I think 3x daily 737 is quite a bit overkill.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

According to Southwest's schedule extension they are adding MEM and LGB nonstop as well as adding frequency to other cities starting in November.... We'll see if that remains going forward

AA axes OAK and may end up significantly smaller if WN really gets aggressive.

I'm thrilled about LGB as we have friends there! Hopefully it will push fares down since AA won't have a monopoly any longer; we went last June and I cashed in miles because the fare was so outrageously high; thankfully AA has the reduced award for trips less-than-500 miles. Would also be nice flying on a 737 vs. a CRJ which I detest.

PHX-LGB has always been the lowest yielding of the PHX-SoCal routes so I doubt fares will come down much as there is no benefit for AA or WN to run a cash negative flight. I think 3x daily 737 is quite a bit overkill.

For WN the strategic play on this might be LGB-PHX-XXX/XXX-PHX-LGB while bringing in the robust PHX-soCal O&D despite it being lower yielding into LGB.

The other factor i could consider maybe that WN thinks AA secondary markets in CA from PHX are vulnerable a la PHX-OAK.

Osubuckeyes wrote:

alasizon wrote:

PHX-LGB has always been the lowest yielding of the PHX-SoCal routes so I doubt fares will come down much as there is no benefit for AA or WN to run a cash negative flight. I think 3x daily 737 is quite a bit overkill.

For WN the strategic play on this might be LGB-PHX-XXX/XXX-PHX-LGB while bringing in the robust PHX-soCal O&D despite it being lower yielding into LGB.

The other factor i could consider maybe that WN thinks AA secondary markets in CA from PHX are vulnerable a la PHX-OAK.

No doubt the play for WN is the onward connectivity but still from the LGB perspective, 3x is probably an overkill. I could see 2x xSa and 1x on Sa being the right frequency. There is a reason why AA went from 5x daily to 3x daily pre-COVID.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

Osubuckeyes wrote:

According to Southwest's schedule extension they are adding MEM and LGB nonstop as well as adding frequency to other cities starting in November.... We'll see if that remains going forward

AA axes OAK and may end up significantly smaller if WN really gets aggressive.

I'm thrilled about LGB as we have friends there! Hopefully it will push fares down since AA won't have a monopoly any longer; we went last June and I cashed in miles because the fare was so outrageously high; thankfully AA has the reduced award for trips less-than-500 miles. Would also be nice flying on a 737 vs. a CRJ which I detest.

PHX-LGB has always been the lowest yielding of the PHX-SoCal routes so I doubt fares will come down much as there is no benefit for AA or WN to run a cash negative flight. I think 3x daily 737 is quite a bit overkill.

3X daily might sound like overkill until you consider the fact that these flights will be supporting connecting traffic as well. With the pullout of B6 from LGB entirely, WN is probably banking on capturing the majority of that business and routing passengers through PHX to onward destinations.

MrPeanut wrote:

3X daily might sound like overkill until you consider the fact that these flights will be supporting connecting traffic as well. With the pullout of B6 from LGB entirely, WN is probably banking on capturing the majority of that business and routing passengers through PHX to onward destinations.

I agree with your point, especially since WN will be offering connections to some destinations not served by B6 such as CMH, ELP, IND, MCI, LIT, SDF, MKE, OKC, OMA, STL, and SAT from LGB through PHX once WN starts LGB-PHX nonstop service.

F9 starting PHX-PHL on November 12, 2020. 1x daily, A320.

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... frequency/

F9LASDEN wrote:

F9 starting PHX-PHL on November 12, 2020. 1x daily, A320.

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... frequency/

Good timings both ways, I have a feeling it'll be successful.

Departs PHX 9:37
Arrives PHL 16:09

Departs PHL 13:25
Arrives PHX 17:00

LH/EW has pushed FRA-PHX-FRA to start October 25th. I find it interesting this is the only route announced for 2020 they are still attempting to launch. Either way cant wait for their arrival

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has pushed FRA-PHX-FRA to start October 25th. I find it interesting this is the only route announced for 2020 they are still attempting to launch. Either way cant wait for their arrival

If I were you, I'd hold off blowing up balloons and chilling champagne for the inaugural. IMHO I think they'd be nuts to still try launching a new route this year, especially given our current big spike of COVID in AZ. I don't see many German/Euro tourists wanting to come here, even by late Oct.