hondah35 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

1337Delta764 wrote:

Here is some info on the elevator/escalator/walkway modernization at T4:
https://solicitations.phoenix.gov/Solic ... entId=4443

Page 13 shows specifically which ones will be modernized.

It appears ThyssenKrupp, KONE, and Schindler are participating in this RFP based on the sign-in sheet (in a separate document), with Otis sitting out. The last modernization project at T4 was done by ThyssenKrupp.

I'm surprised at the prioritization putting the B1 escalators at a higher priority than walkways 5-8, one of those goes down on a daily basis at a minimum.

Agreed, I would think that all 4 of those walkways are approaching the end of their serviceable life

I sure hope they get this done. PHX is my home airport and in just the last 2 weeks I have flown 2 RT. I am a little bit older but fortunately have no physical problems but both trips this month had some of the walkways out of service necessitating some long walks. Sometimes you are just tired and are not up for the long walk. Besides I like to look out the window while riding so I can check out the planes!

BTW, I think the elevators/escalators/walkways at PHX are currently maintained by KONE. Most of the equipment at PHX was originally Montgomery, except a few airside elevators in T4 and the West Economy Garage elevator (which is a Westinghouse and as far as I know never modernized). Also, the SkyTrain elevators at T3 were installed brand new by ThyssenKrupp.

1337Delta764 wrote:

BTW, I think the elevators/escalators/walkways at PHX are currently maintained by KONE. Most of the equipment at PHX was originally Montgomery, except a few airside elevators in T4 and the West Economy Garage elevator (which is a Westinghouse and as far as I know never modernized). Also, the SkyTrain elevators at T3 were installed brand new by ThyssenKrupp.

Officially everything is maintained by KONE once you get airside, landside is a mix of KONE and ThyssenKrupp. It isn't KONE's fault that the walkways are breaking, they are just old and worn down and the entire tracks and motors need to be replaced. I think walkway 7 has been rebuilt just about as many times as is physically possible and it still is the problem child.

Fascinating.

The NASA Super Guppy N941NA is doing touch and goes at Gateway right now. According to Wiki, it's the only surviving Guppy in the world.

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

The NASA Super Guppy N941NA is doing touch and goes at Gateway right now. According to Wiki, it's the only surviving Guppy in the world.

I wonder why? But it would be fun to watch. And not surprised it's now the last one, talk about elderly! I remember when Airbus used their old variation of it how it was said that every Airbus began life on a Boeing LOL.

cathay747 wrote:

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

The NASA Super Guppy N941NA is doing touch and goes at Gateway right now. According to Wiki, it's the only surviving Guppy in the world.

I wonder why? But it would be fun to watch. And not surprised it's now the last one, talk about elderly! I remember when Airbus used their old variation of it how it was said that every Airbus began life on a Boeing LOL.

Training is my guess. It looks like they did six or so full circuits and flew over my house on the downwind legs. I heard something that sounded like a multiengine prop and thought it was one of the C130s based at Gateway and lo and behold, it was this guy.

cathay747 wrote:

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

The NASA Super Guppy N941NA is doing touch and goes at Gateway right now. According to Wiki, it's the only surviving Guppy in the world.

I wonder why? But it would be fun to watch. And not surprised it's now the last one, talk about elderly! I remember when Airbus used their old variation of it how it was said that every Airbus began life on a Boeing LOL.

I'm pretty sure it's based in ELP, so it's not far away. IWA has long runways, and it's easy for military (or in this case, special use) aircraft to use 12L/30R for touch and goes. The Copperheads (AZANG) frequently do the same, since IWA is obviously less congested than PHX. The guys in the tower are more than happy to accommodate cool stuff. The Guppy has made a new visits to IWA over the years, so they're no stranger.

atcsundevil wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

The NASA Super Guppy N941NA is doing touch and goes at Gateway right now. According to Wiki, it's the only surviving Guppy in the world.

I wonder why? But it would be fun to watch. And not surprised it's now the last one, talk about elderly! I remember when Airbus used their old variation of it how it was said that every Airbus began life on a Boeing LOL.

I'm pretty sure it's based in ELP, so it's not far away. IWA has long runways, and it's easy for military (or in this case, special use) aircraft to use 12L/30R for touch and goes. The Copperheads (AZANG) frequently do the same, since IWA is obviously less congested than PHX. The guys in the tower are more than happy to accommodate cool stuff. The Guppy has made a new visits to IWA over the years, so they're no stranger.

So for another "I wonder why"...a NASA airplane based at ELP?

alasizon wrote:

1337Delta764 wrote:

BTW, I think the elevators/escalators/walkways at PHX are currently maintained by KONE. Most of the equipment at PHX was originally Montgomery, except a few airside elevators in T4 and the West Economy Garage elevator (which is a Westinghouse and as far as I know never modernized). Also, the SkyTrain elevators at T3 were installed brand new by ThyssenKrupp.

Officially everything is maintained by KONE once you get airside, landside is a mix of KONE and ThyssenKrupp. It isn't KONE's fault that the walkways are breaking, they are just old and worn down and the entire tracks and motors need to be replaced. I think walkway 7 has been rebuilt just about as many times as is physically possible and it still is the problem child.

Correct, it is KONE on airside.

It's not just the walkways either, it seems like stuck elevators are a daily occurrence.

cathay747 wrote:

So for another "I wonder why"...a NASA airplane based at ELP?

Wikipedia:

El Paso Forward Operating Location is a division of the Johnson Space Center. It is home to the one and only Super Guppy, and NASA's T-38 Depot Maintenance Facility. It was also the former home of the Shuttle Training Aircraft.


Airplane belongs to Johnson Space Center and is maintained either at ELP or EFD.

MO11 wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

So for another "I wonder why"...a NASA airplane based at ELP?

Wikipedia:

El Paso Forward Operating Location is a division of the Johnson Space Center. It is home to the one and only Super Guppy, and NASA's T-38 Depot Maintenance Facility. It was also the former home of the Shuttle Training Aircraft.


Airplane belongs to Johnson Space Center and is maintained either at ELP or EFD.

Ah, OK, thanks! You sure learn something new every day on here!

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

I think they're nuts keeping alive the notion of launching a new long-haul route, even with putting it off till the spring. Anybody is, not just LH. I even wonder if the DE flight will return in 2021. We have to wait and see of course, but I'm leaning towards the predictions of long-haul not recovering for a long time.

cathay747 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

I think they're nuts keeping alive the notion of launching a new long-haul route, even with putting it off till the spring. Anybody is, not just LH. I even wonder if the DE flight will return in 2021. We have to wait and see of course, but I'm leaning towards the predictions of long-haul not recovering for a long time.

They can just keep rolling it back if needed, at least they finally gave up on October. It's not like EW/LH is getting into a completely unproven market, DE has done a great job proving it for them.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

I think they're nuts keeping alive the notion of launching a new long-haul route, even with putting it off till the spring. Anybody is, not just LH. I even wonder if the DE flight will return in 2021. We have to wait and see of course, but I'm leaning towards the predictions of long-haul not recovering for a long time.

They can just keep rolling it back if needed, at least they finally gave up on October. It's not like EW/LH is getting into a completely unproven market, DE has done a great job proving it for them.

And LH before that. They started FRA-PHX in March 2001. The route survived 9/11, but it was ultimately cut in 2004. The A342 was the best plane at the time on FRA-PHX, but as they were retired and replaced with the A343 on the route, it proved to be too much plane. I think if LH mainline had the A332 in their fleet, the outcome would be different. In addition, after Gov. Nappy was elected in 2002, there were some budget cuts to the Arizona state tourism and economic development budget, which made PHX less appealing to LH, but at least the resources were spent to rename mountains and freeways.

jmc1975 wrote:

In addition, after Gov. Nappy was elected in 2002, there were some budget cuts to the Arizona state tourism and economic development budget, which made PHX less appealing to LH, but at least the resources were spent to rename mountains and freeways.

Source?

Also, check your dates. Budget cuts to Arizona Office of Tourism were put in place by Gov Jane Dee Hull, not Napolitano. Cuts went out well before the election...

https://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque ... ocus2.html

Not sure if it got mentioned, but the ride share airport surcharge was upheld by the Arizona Supreme Court.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 573910002/

Wonder how much revenue they’re collecting these days?

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

I think they're nuts keeping alive the notion of launching a new long-haul route, even with putting it off till the spring. Anybody is, not just LH. I even wonder if the DE flight will return in 2021. We have to wait and see of course, but I'm leaning towards the predictions of long-haul not recovering for a long time.

They can just keep rolling it back if needed, at least they finally gave up on October. It's not like EW/LH is getting into a completely unproven market, DE has done a great job proving it for them.

It's a good sign they are keeping in the schedule considering LH/EW dropped all other routes announced for 2020. I wonder at this point if EW long haul makes sense, at this point only LAS & PHX are scheduled for 2021, it would make sense for LH mainline however A/C would still be an issue.

chrisair wrote:

Source?

I presume the other poster was referring to the renaming of “Slur-against-native-American-women Peak” to “Piestewa Peak” and the adjacent freeway named after the mountain being renamed as well.

Piestewa was the first Native American woman in history to die in combat while serving in the U.S. military and the first woman in the U.S. military killed in the Iraq War.[2] Arizona's Piestewa Peak is named in her honor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Piestewa

Sure seems like a better name to me. And signs need replacing eventually anyway.

Please let's try to avoid getting political. I'll also remind users that purposely derogatory names for public figures are subject to deletion as flamebait, because it otherwise serves no purpose.

✈️ atcsundevil

birdup wrote:

Sure seems like a better name to me. And signs need replacing eventually anyway.

I know what they’re referring to...my “source” comment was about the truly bizarre notion that money cut from the Arizona Office of Tourism was used to rename a freeway and a mountain, which is part of the city of Phoenix park system and not even managed by the state, and those cuts drove an airline to stop flying a route.

alasizon wrote:

cathay747 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

I think they're nuts keeping alive the notion of launching a new long-haul route, even with putting it off till the spring. Anybody is, not just LH. I even wonder if the DE flight will return in 2021. We have to wait and see of course, but I'm leaning towards the predictions of long-haul not recovering for a long time.

They can just keep rolling it back if needed, at least they finally gave up on October. It's not like EW/LH is getting into a completely unproven market, DE has done a great job proving it for them.

Right, but my point, which I didn't spell out, is that with DE in the market already I think EW/LH is nuts to keep up the idea of launching the route given how long-haul travel has cratered and likely won't recover till way past spring 2021...I even wonder if DE will resume in spring 21. A route such as FRA-PHX seems very marginal to me for quite a while.

chrisair wrote:

Not sure if it got mentioned, but the ride share airport surcharge was upheld by the Arizona Supreme Court.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 573910002/

Wonder how much revenue they’re collecting these days?

Well then I guess that's it for Uber and Lyft as I presume they'll carry out their threat to leave. Lovely. Not that I use them or would, but it sucks for lots of people since Super Shuttle went down the drain. I still think it's unfair against ride-shares that the same surcharge isn't applied to taxis; level the playing field so all could pass along the surcharge to customers. But as it stands I guess doing so would make ride-shares more expensive.

atcsundevil wrote:

Please let's try to avoid getting political. I'll also remind users that purposely derogatory names for public figures are subject to deletion as flamebait, because it otherwise serves no purpose.

✈️ atcsundevil

Thank you sir. I for one have LONG been fed up and sick & tired of the childish name-calling that's come about in the last few years.

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

An interesting update for EW, A/C has been changed to Brussels Airlines A333, this would have 30J, 28W, 225Y, an increase in all classes.

I didn't know the 333 had the range, I am not sure if RR engines make a difference?

BA744PHX wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

LH/EW has updated the launch of FRA-PHX-FRA to March 28th at 4 weekly, from April 18th to 5 weekly
DE is loaded (without rates) from May 22nd at 2 weekly, from June 26 at 3 weekly until September 28th, back to 2 weekly until October 28th

DE i believe is still subject to change, until service was cancelled for 2020 they were scheduled to fly PHX from April at 2 weekly before increasing in May to 3 weekly until end of October

An interesting update for EW, A/C has been changed to Brussels Airlines A333, this would have 30J, 28W, 225Y, an increase in all classes.

I didn't know the 333 had the range, I am not sure if RR engines make a difference?

That IS interesting. This tells me that SN must be reducing freq. on an African route. Hmmm. And I don't think it's the range that would be an issue with a -300, but rather it's field performance due to the summer heat, although that's mitigated somewhat by a night departure. But maybe you're right about the RR engines. I honestly don't know.

Since AS is joining oneworld, any sign they’re considering a move to Terminal 4 for better connections with AA? Or is that not really important since all of Alaska’s destinations from PHX are also flown by AA?

birdup wrote:

Since AS is joining oneworld, any sign they’re considering a move to Terminal 4 for better connections with AA? Or is that not really important since all of Alaska’s destinations from PHX are also flown by AA?

I think you also need to look at it the other way. How many new destinations do SEA or PDX originating customers gain access to via PHX that may prompt the need to have AS flights moved to T4. I know there are some unique Mexican destinations, Colorado ski resort destinations, MEM, etc.

MrPeanut wrote:

birdup wrote:

Since AS is joining oneworld, any sign they’re considering a move to Terminal 4 for better connections with AA? Or is that not really important since all of Alaska’s destinations from PHX are also flown by AA?

I think you also need to look at it the other way. How many new destinations do SEA or PDX originating customers gain access to via PHX that may prompt the need to have AS flights moved to T4. I know there are some unique Mexican destinations, Colorado ski resort destinations, MEM, etc.

AS destinations not served out of SEA that can be accessed with AA at PHX:
- Santa Fe
- Roswell
- Lubbock
- Midland
- Colorado Ski Destinations - Eagle/Vail, Aspen, Colorado Springs, Grand Junction, Montrose, Durango
- Memphis
- Madison
- Cedar Rapids
- Des Moines
- Sioux Falls
- Rapid City
- Fargo
- Grand Rapids
- Jackson
- Mexico - Hermosillo, Chihuahua, Mazaltan, Guadalajara, Ixtapa

"Backtrack" Destinations:
- Saint George
- Yuma
- Bakersfield

Probably missed some.

Ishrion wrote:

AS destinations not served out of SEA that can be accessed with AA at PHX:
- Grand Rapids

GRR is located east of ORD, and AS can already connect passengers from SEA onto AA's ORD-GRR flights.

Hey guys,

I have a question regarding WestJet's operations, with YYC, YEG, YYZ, YVR & YWG all having pre clearance would it be possible for WS too relocate to T3 or another concourse within T4? Only YLW, YQR & YXE flights require customs and only operate 2-3 weekly seasonal flights. Would this be feasible?

With WN additional both SJD & PVR in October (will probably be delayed) I would think INTL gates will eventually become limited.

What are your thoughts?

BA744PHX wrote:

Hey guys,

I have a question regarding WestJet's operations, with YYC, YEG, YYZ, YVR & YWG all having pre clearance would it be possible for WS too relocate to T3 or another concourse within T4? Only YLW, YQR & YXE flights require customs and only operate 2-3 weekly seasonal flights. Would this be feasible?

With WN additional both SJD & PVR in October (will probably be delayed) I would think INTL gates will eventually become limited.

What are your thoughts?

Much harder to run a split terminal operation, it could be done but not without a struggle. CBP also does spot outbound checks and I doubt they will be very happy about having to go to T3 on a regular basis.

alasizon wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

Hey guys,

I have a question regarding WestJet's operations, with YYC, YEG, YYZ, YVR & YWG all having pre clearance would it be possible for WS too relocate to T3 or another concourse within T4? Only YLW, YQR & YXE flights require customs and only operate 2-3 weekly seasonal flights. Would this be feasible?

With WN additional both SJD & PVR in October (will probably be delayed) I would think INTL gates will eventually become limited.

What are your thoughts?

Much harder to run a split terminal operation, it could be done but not without a struggle. CBP also does spot outbound checks and I doubt they will be very happy about having to go to T3 on a regular basis.

Ah I wasn't aware of that, what about a different concourse within T4? How many INTL gates does T4 have?

BA744PHX wrote:

alasizon wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

Hey guys,

I have a question regarding WestJet's operations, with YYC, YEG, YYZ, YVR & YWG all having pre clearance would it be possible for WS too relocate to T3 or another concourse within T4? Only YLW, YQR & YXE flights require customs and only operate 2-3 weekly seasonal flights. Would this be feasible?

With WN additional both SJD & PVR in October (will probably be delayed) I would think INTL gates will eventually become limited.

What are your thoughts?

Much harder to run a split terminal operation, it could be done but not without a struggle. CBP also does spot outbound checks and I doubt they will be very happy about having to go to T3 on a regular basis.

Ah I wasn't aware of that, what about a different concourse within T4? How many INTL gates does T4 have?

B23-B28 are the only FIS common use gates. There is plenty of slack outside peak PM times should WS need to move their flight times, since most of the traffic on the seasonal routes is O&D anyhow it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

There was discussion of converting some of S4 (C11-C19) to common use once S1 was built and opened but WN is pretty intent on expanding their presence and renovating S4 for their continued use. Of course that was all pre-COVID so who knows now.

The city's common use gate conditions were revised back in 2019 and it did lower the priority for seasonal non-daily Transborder flights quite a bit so they likely will either change times or drop off.

alasizon wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Much harder to run a split terminal operation, it could be done but not without a struggle. CBP also does spot outbound checks and I doubt they will be very happy about having to go to T3 on a regular basis.

Ah I wasn't aware of that, what about a different concourse within T4? How many INTL gates does T4 have?

B23-B28 are the only FIS common use gates. There is plenty of slack outside peak PM times should WS need to move their flight times, since most of the traffic on the seasonal routes is O&D anyhow it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

There was discussion of converting some of S4 (C11-C19) to common use once S1 was built and opened but WN is pretty intent on expanding their presence and renovating S4 for their continued use. Of course that was all pre-COVID so who knows now.

The city's common use gate conditions were revised back in 2019 and it did lower the priority for seasonal non-daily Transborder flights quite a bit so they likely will either change times or drop off.

Thanks for the info, I would think WN would be more flexible now that SJD & PVR are starting. How would this work with WN? Would both arrival and departure from N4?

alasizon wrote:

CBP also does spot outbound checks and I doubt they will be very happy about having to go to T3 on a regular basis.

Considering Air Canada is now in T3, they would have to make a visit to that terminal anyways.

BA744PHX wrote:

alasizon wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

Ah I wasn't aware of that, what about a different concourse within T4? How many INTL gates does T4 have?

B23-B28 are the only FIS common use gates. There is plenty of slack outside peak PM times should WS need to move their flight times, since most of the traffic on the seasonal routes is O&D anyhow it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

There was discussion of converting some of S4 (C11-C19) to common use once S1 was built and opened but WN is pretty intent on expanding their presence and renovating S4 for their continued use. Of course that was all pre-COVID so who knows now.

The city's common use gate conditions were revised back in 2019 and it did lower the priority for seasonal non-daily Transborder flights quite a bit so they likely will either change times or drop off.

Thanks for the info, I would think WN would be more flexible now that SJD & PVR are starting. How would this work with WN? Would both arrival and departure from N4?

WN is deplaning on N4 and then towing back to their side for the departure.

MrPeanut wrote:

alasizon wrote:

CBP also does spot outbound checks and I doubt they will be very happy about having to go to T3 on a regular basis.

Considering Air Canada is now in T3, they would have to make a visit to that terminal anyways.

Not nearly as often (AC runs about 1/2 the winter frequencies compared to WS) and I believe that CBP does more inspections on non-pre cleared cities and WS flies a lot of their PHX routes as a W pattern. Not saying it is a big deal breaker but CBP does carry some weight in PHX in terms of timing and available resources. Since WS has most of their departures in the PM, moving them to T3 takes those CBP officers away from T4 duties and offers less flexibility and PHX FIS needs every headcount they can get for the Winter PM.

AA is adding seasonal PHX-BNA/TUL/BIL/BIS from November-April,

BNA is long overdue with WN anywhere from 2-4 daily.

I wonder if RAP/COS/CUU will return, they were removed when COVID started

https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... er-routes/

BA744PHX wrote:

AA is adding seasonal PHX-BNA/TUL from November-April, BNA is long overdue with WN anywhere from 2-4 daily.

I wonder if RAP/COS/CUU will return, they were removed when COVID started

Good. AA just needs to add PHX-BUF/LIT/SDF now.

Iggy500 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

AA is adding seasonal PHX-BNA/TUL from November-April, BNA is long overdue with WN anywhere from 2-4 daily.

I wonder if RAP/COS/CUU will return, they were removed when COVID started

Good. AA just needs to add PHX-BUF/CLE/LIT/SDF now.

CLE was added but Saturday only, I think its only a matter of time for LIT & SDF

BA744PHX wrote:

Iggy500 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

AA is adding seasonal PHX-BNA/TUL from November-April, BNA is long overdue with WN anywhere from 2-4 daily.

I wonder if RAP/COS/CUU will return, they were removed when COVID started

Good. AA just needs to add PHX-BUF/CLE/LIT/SDF now.

CLE was added but Saturday only, I think its only a matter of time for LIT & SDF

Yeah, I just edited my post since I just realized that CLE-PHX was already added lol. But I do hope that AA can compete with almost all of the routes that WN offers from PHX.

Iggy500 wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

Iggy500 wrote:

Good. AA just needs to add PHX-BUF/CLE/LIT/SDF now.

CLE was added but Saturday only, I think its only a matter of time for LIT & SDF

Yeah, I just edited my post since I just realized that CLE-PHX was already added lol. But I do hope that AA can compete with almost all of the routes that WN offers from PHX.

I think BNA will be a challenge, WN has anywhere from 2-5 daily flights and AA will only have 4 weekly

Per todays OAG update, AA goes double daily for both CID & MSN in addition to BIS/BIL/TUL/BNA/YYC/CLE being added.

AA CID-PHX NOV 0.4>1.8[0] DEC 1.0>2[0.4] JAN 1.0>2[1.0] FEB 1.0>2[1.0] MAR 0.9>1.9[1.0]
AA MSN-PHX NOV 0.4>1.8[0.3] DEC 1.0>2[0.5] JAN 1.0>2[1.0] FEB 1.0>2[1.0] MAR 1.0>2.0[1.0]

BA744PHX wrote:

Per todays OAG update, AA goes double daily for both CID & MSN in addition to BIS/BIL/TUL/BNA/YYC/CLE being added.

AA CID-PHX NOV 0.4>1.8[0] DEC 1.0>2[0.4] JAN 1.0>2[1.0] FEB 1.0>2[1.0] MAR 0.9>1.9[1.0]
AA MSN-PHX NOV 0.4>1.8[0.3] DEC 1.0>2[0.5] JAN 1.0>2[1.0] FEB 1.0>2[1.0] MAR 1.0>2.0[1.0]

MSN is no surprise to me, the original season last year was supposed to be through the first week of April and it was extended till the end of May with pretty good LFs the entire time despite COVID.

I live under the approach path into IWA and we just had an interesting arrival into Gateway a few minutes ago - N980ST. It's owned by the National Nuclear Security Agency and it's a 737-400 combi. Looking at it's history, it hangs out at some interesting restricted airfields in NV.

From bizjournals.com AA cuts/WARN is around 1,300 but potentially less. I'm surprised by the low number considering everyone is expecting PHX to have massive cuts, I wonder where a majority of those layoffs are coming from

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... 4#cxrecs_s
Those job cuts were announced in an Aug. 25 letter from American Chairman and CEO Doug Parker and President Robert Isom, who said the company would either furlough or permanently lay off 19,000 employees if Congress fails to approve more Covid-19 relief by then.

But while the WARN notice said Arizona’s share of those cuts could be 1,367, a company spokesperson said on Sept. 2 that the numbers will be lower because of “voluntary early out and leave programs put into place in recent weeks.”

“In reality the number of furloughs in the state of Arizona will be less than the 1,367 number the state made public,” the spokesperson said."

BA744PHX wrote:

From bizjournals.com AA cuts/WARN is around 1,300 but potentially less. I'm surprised by the low number considering everyone is expecting PHX to have massive cuts, I wonder where a majority of those layoffs are coming from

As a percent of total labor, I would expect LA and NYC to have the greatest reduction in labor (furlough, voluntary, etc). Also don’t forget that if one hub happened to have had a large number accept voluntary leave, then the the number of WARN notices in that particular hub could be lower.

BA744PHX wrote:

From bizjournals.com AA cuts/WARN is around 1,300 but potentially less. I'm surprised by the low number considering everyone is expecting PHX to have massive cuts, I wonder where a majority of those layoffs are coming from

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... 4#cxrecs_s
Those job cuts were announced in an Aug. 25 letter from American Chairman and CEO Doug Parker and President Robert Isom, who said the company would either furlough or permanently lay off 19,000 employees if Congress fails to approve more Covid-19 relief by then.

But while the WARN notice said Arizona’s share of those cuts could be 1,367, a company spokesperson said on Sept. 2 that the numbers will be lower because of “voluntary early out and leave programs put into place in recent weeks.”

“In reality the number of furloughs in the state of Arizona will be less than the 1,367 number the state made public,” the spokesperson said."

I'd suspect from the larger international hubs, since international traffic is taking the biggest hit. PHX obviously doesn't have much international besides the one LHR route, which is schedule to start back up in October, and the routes to Mexico, Canada and central america.

PhilMcCrackin wrote:

BA744PHX wrote:

From bizjournals.com AA cuts/WARN is around 1,300 but potentially less. I'm surprised by the low number considering everyone is expecting PHX to have massive cuts, I wonder where a majority of those layoffs are coming from

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/new ... 4#cxrecs_s
Those job cuts were announced in an Aug. 25 letter from American Chairman and CEO Doug Parker and President Robert Isom, who said the company would either furlough or permanently lay off 19,000 employees if Congress fails to approve more Covid-19 relief by then.

But while the WARN notice said Arizona’s share of those cuts could be 1,367, a company spokesperson said on Sept. 2 that the numbers will be lower because of “voluntary early out and leave programs put into place in recent weeks.”

“In reality the number of furloughs in the state of Arizona will be less than the 1,367 number the state made public,” the spokesperson said."

I'd suspect from the larger international hubs, since international traffic is taking the biggest hit. PHX obviously doesn't have much international besides the one LHR route, which is schedule to start back up in October, and the routes to Mexico, Canada and central america.

Nothing to Central America from Phoenix excerpt seasonal to San Jose.