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MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:24 pm

CAM took delivery of JA8286 yesterday, now N433AZ.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:51 pm

HPRamper wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:

A natural move, as Smartpost was discontinued last year.


From what I understood was that the last mile was being moved into the FedEx Ground network, not a complete elimination of the service. I had a SmartPost package shipped to Puerto Rico (a Moen Adler showerhead) that was shipped from Lowe's in January. However, this one still had the last mile via USPS since FedEx Ground does not operate in Puerto Rico. Remember that SmartPost operates on a consolidation model, and is not a guaranteed service like Ground/Home Delivery. The UPS competitor, UPS SurePost, on the other hand, is usually (though not guaranteed) Ground+1 day.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:16 pm

MO11 wrote:
CAM took delivery of JA8286 yesterday, now N433AZ.


Thanks for the update. The first ex-ANA-Cargo aircraft purchased by CAM was painted and leased to UPS. However, as a poster pointed out, these other two are non-FADEC, and all UPS 767s are FADEC. So I figured they were going to Amazon or being leased to other customers. N431AZ (the second one), has been sitting at ILN since 11.15.19 and owned by CAM, bearing an Amazon tail number, since 1.30.20, without ever having been sent to paint. I would think that with the current loads, Amazon would be looking to add air capacity faster than planned, but I guess they are doing things in the rational, deliberate way that they always do.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:28 am

HPRamper wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:

I recently had a Kohl's package shipped via USPS First Class that took 6 days to move between the San Bernardino CA Distribution Center and the Phoenix AZ Distribution Center Annex. Since this is a Zone 4 shipment, it most likely went via ground transportation (Local Zone and Zones 1-4 are usually via ground, while Zones 5 and up are always via air), but usually USPS First Class takes 2-3 days. My previous two Kohl's packages shipped via USPS First Class from San Bernardino didn't take this long. Interestingly, Kohl's used to ship the majority of their packages to me via FedEx SmartPost, but starting this year it seems like they switched to USPS First Class for those under 1 lb.

A natural move, as Smartpost was discontinued last year.


Seems like FedEx is still selling Smartpost: https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/fe ... tpost.html
 
HPRamper
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:31 am

USAirKid wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:

I recently had a Kohl's package shipped via USPS First Class that took 6 days to move between the San Bernardino CA Distribution Center and the Phoenix AZ Distribution Center Annex. Since this is a Zone 4 shipment, it most likely went via ground transportation (Local Zone and Zones 1-4 are usually via ground, while Zones 5 and up are always via air), but usually USPS First Class takes 2-3 days. My previous two Kohl's packages shipped via USPS First Class from San Bernardino didn't take this long. Interestingly, Kohl's used to ship the majority of their packages to me via FedEx SmartPost, but starting this year it seems like they switched to USPS First Class for those under 1 lb.

A natural move, as Smartpost was discontinued last year.


Seems like FedEx is still selling Smartpost: https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/fe ... tpost.html


The announcement was last year, but they are gradually working it out of the system as opposed to slamming the door all at once. Probably to satisfy contract requirements. They certainly should not be advertising it as a selling point though, in my opinion, as it's supposed to be totally gone by the end of this year.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:25 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MO11 wrote:
CAM took delivery of JA8286 yesterday, now N433AZ.


Thanks for the update. The first ex-ANA-Cargo aircraft purchased by CAM was painted and leased to UPS. However, as a poster pointed out, these other two are non-FADEC, and all UPS 767s are FADEC. So I figured they were going to Amazon or being leased to other customers. N431AZ (the second one), has been sitting at ILN since 11.15.19 and owned by CAM, bearing an Amazon tail number, since 1.30.20, without ever having been sent to paint. I would think that with the current loads, Amazon would be looking to add air capacity faster than planned, but I guess they are doing things in the rational, deliberate way that they always do.


Do we have any indication on hours and cycles on these ex-ANA 300s? The -281s are the ones hitting their cycle limits, I was wondering if the big brothers were flown close to that hard.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:47 pm

I’d be interested in knowing the board’s thoughts on whether Amazon will be interested in acquiring any of the newly available (retired) 757s?

Benefits include, access to a more capable narrow body, fleet similarity with the 76, and a proven reliable operator in ATI.

Cons include, higher conversion cost?

Anything else?
 
CALMSP
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:29 pm

GoodRide wrote:
I’d be interested in knowing the board’s thoughts on whether Amazon will be interested in acquiring any of the newly available (retired) 757s?

Benefits include, access to a more capable narrow body, fleet similarity with the 76, and a proven reliable operator in ATI.

Cons include, higher conversion cost?

Anything else?


I still believe the 738 is the way to go. With more and more warehouses being built, why the need to fly sometimes 75% empty 767's cross country.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:51 pm

CALMSP wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
I’d be interested in knowing the board’s thoughts on whether Amazon will be interested in acquiring any of the newly available (retired) 757s?

Benefits include, access to a more capable narrow body, fleet similarity with the 76, and a proven reliable operator in ATI.

Cons include, higher conversion cost?

Anything else?


I still believe the 738 is the way to go. With more and more warehouses being built, why the need to fly sometimes 75% empty 767's cross country.


While the cans upstairs should be interchangeable with the 738s, I don't know if Amazon would like bulk loading hte entire belly on the 757. It could be done, but....
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:06 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
MO11 wrote:
CAM took delivery of JA8286 yesterday, now N433AZ.


Thanks for the update. The first ex-ANA-Cargo aircraft purchased by CAM was painted and leased to UPS. However, as a poster pointed out, these other two are non-FADEC, and all UPS 767s are FADEC. So I figured they were going to Amazon or being leased to other customers. N431AZ (the second one), has been sitting at ILN since 11.15.19 and owned by CAM, bearing an Amazon tail number, since 1.30.20, without ever having been sent to paint. I would think that with the current loads, Amazon would be looking to add air capacity faster than planned, but I guess they are doing things in the rational, deliberate way that they always do.


Do we have any indication on hours and cycles on these ex-ANA 300s? The -281s are the ones hitting their cycle limits, I was wondering if the big brothers were flown close to that hard.


We can extrapolate a little. Presumably there will be some SDRs that come out of the bridging effort, but we won't see those for a while.

S/N 33404 was doing, on average over 12 years, about 2900 hours per year and about 1100 cycles to the one SDR we have on it from 2013. That would put it today at about 50,000 hours and about 20,000 cycles. Hard to know how typical that is, but it's the only data I have.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:21 am

A bit of an aside, but this is the group to ask: Is the Covid19 Supplies Air-Bridge contracted out to a single carrier? Is FEMA using the USTRANSCOM contracts or separate contracts to fly it? Just curious which of the various ANC-ORD, ANC-JFK, ANC-DFW(I think) flights are standard and which are the air bridge. Certainly the current overall volume ex-Asia on air cargo/charter is huge, and several um, "smaller", carriers are involved (WGA, KYE, NCR, etc.). A shipper over there tells me that DHL is just buried out of Asia right now, like 7-10 days to do a 2-day shipment (which is probably overstated), but they are turning to other methods to get things out of the country and to the US, and then transferring stuff to FedEx/UPS etc for final mile once it gets through customs.
 
dcs921
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:05 am

I know FEMA is at least using FedEx and UPS for project Airbridge. I would I think they are using any US carrier that is willing and and has the ability to move supplies out of Asia.

I know UPS has/managing 25 flights. UPS is splitting them between their own aircraft and other carriers. I cannot find any information about the split or the carries they are using. I think WGN and GTI are handling some of them.

UPS Press Release.
https://pressroom.ups.com/pressroom/ContentDetailsViewer.page?ConceptType=PressReleases&id=1586259205637-665

FedEx Press Release
https://newsroom.fedex.com/newsroom/fedex-activates-project-airbridge-operation/
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:14 am

wjcandee wrote:
A bit of an aside, but this is the group to ask: Is the Covid19 Supplies Air-Bridge contracted out to a single carrier? Is FEMA using the USTRANSCOM contracts or separate contracts to fly it? Just curious which of the various ANC-ORD, ANC-JFK, ANC-DFW(I think) flights are standard and which are the air bridge. Certainly the current overall volume ex-Asia on air cargo/charter is huge, and several um, "smaller", carriers are involved (WGA, KYE, NCR, etc.). A shipper over there tells me that DHL is just buried out of Asia right now, like 7-10 days to do a 2-day shipment (which is probably overstated), but they are turning to other methods to get things out of the country and to the US, and then transferring stuff to FedEx/UPS etc for final mile once it gets through customs.

It’s spread out, I know 5X is playing a big part in it. Part of the air cargo facility in SDF is dedicated to the project and then there are plenty of special flights to carry supplies to not only N America but Europe. Asia is big right now for everybody, economy is down but the backlog is huge for.

FEMA is coordinating direct flights from ANC, but there are plenty that are just going to 5X and FX hubs because it’s easier to spread it out. JFK and LAX will get the directs because of amount of supplies, but there still isn’t enough in the pipeline for full widebodies to most places.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:56 am

Like him or lump him, Trump's team was smart about this: smart to just hire private companies that do this stuff very well every day. Making UPS and/or Fedex responsible for flying the stuff over here and then delivering it where it's supposed to go when it's supposed to be there is brilliant. UPS and Fedex do custom warehousing and logistics very well. (So do others, but UPS and FedEx can offer a one-stop-shop for the flying part, the warehousing part, the pick-and-deliver part. Smart. Smart. Smart.)

And it also makes sense to have UPS and/or Fedex take the master contract and arrange the contract air service themselves. They do this every year at Peak, so they know who to hire and how to manage and direct them. Very often, the gov't tries to manage this stuff itself, which is dumb if it's not a core competency. Why reinvent the wheel when companies who are the best in the world at it are available to hire and eager to help?

One other aspect of this is smart: Although the government arranged for and paid for these flights, a portion of the volume brought over was purchased by companies like Cardinal and Medline, two huge and exceptionally-well-run distributors to hospitals. It makes sense for the government to supplement hospitals' normal supply chain of this stuff when the emergency demand is overwhelming, but it shouldn't corner the market in stuff that hospitals around the country need every day for use other than on Covid patients. The hospitals in NYC right now, for example, are seriously virtually-all-Covid, which is incredible given all the other stuff they usually do every day. But that isn't the case everywhere in the US, and hospitals need to be able to get things for their normal needs as well. So expediting and backfilling supplies at companies like Cardinal, who then pay for it and supply it in the normal course to hospitals the way they always did, keeps things running "normally-ish" around the country and doesn't put the bill for everything on the taxpayers.

Thanks for the links to the press releases. Sooo interesting!

PS Back when the H1N1 thing happened, and then a vaccine came out, the government decided to do much of the logistics itself, having vaccine manufacturers send the stuff to local health departments, who then were responsible for pushing it into the community. What they did, because they didn't have an effective infrastructure to vaccinate people, was to hoard the stuff for a period of time and then have mass vaccine events where shots were given by people they hired. I always thought that that was inefficient and led to a lot of vaccine sitting around instead of being injected immediately into the people who really wanted it, leading faster to achieve "herd immunity" in the community. I thought it would be so much smarter for the gov't to send the stuff out through the Walgreens, CVS and Walmart distribution systems directly to immunizing pharmacies, and maybe even pay those companies (or recruit them to the mission with incentive payments) to bring pharmacists and nurses in on overtime to immunize people right there in their local pharmacies, and at the same time use companies like Henry Schien/GIV to massively-distribute vaccine directly to doctors' offices, which it is already set up to do. The infrastructure absolutely already-existed to do this, but the Public Health O-Crats wanted to do it themselves, which I don't think served the public as well.
Last edited by wjcandee on Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:18 am

wjcandee wrote:
Like him or lump him, Trump's team was smart about this: smart to just hire private companies that do this stuff very well every day. Making UPS and/or Fedex responsible for flying the stuff over here and then delivering it where it's supposed to go when it's supposed to be there is brilliant. UPS and Fedex do custom warehousing and logistics very well. (So do others, but UPS and FedEx can offer a one-stop-shop for the flying part, the warehousing part, the pick-and-deliver part. Smart. Smart. Smart.)

And it also makes sense to have UPS and/or Fedex take the master contract and arrange the contract air service themselves. They do this every year at Peak, so they know who to hire and how to manage and direct them. Very often, the gov't tries to manage this stuff itself, which is dumb if it's not a core competency. Why reinvent the wheel when companies who are the best in the world at it are available to hire?

I think if the public actually understood how complex some of these supply chains are they’d be shocked. I’ve been dealing with a few big customers this week that are working to move corona supplies to their stores/businesses. It’s a huge undertaking to rush all of these supplies out all of a sudden. People don’t realize what it takes to send supplies out when companies have literally thousands of locations.

I’ve never seen anything like this outside of peak. And even then you have an idea what is about to come. With how this is going things are changing by the day and sometimes by the hour. At this point though, I’m just happy to be one of those people in the airline industry with a job.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:33 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Like him or lump him, Trump's team was smart about this: smart to just hire private companies that do this stuff very well every day. Making UPS and/or Fedex responsible for flying the stuff over here and then delivering it where it's supposed to go when it's supposed to be there is brilliant. UPS and Fedex do custom warehousing and logistics very well. (So do others, but UPS and FedEx can offer a one-stop-shop for the flying part, the warehousing part, the pick-and-deliver part. Smart. Smart. Smart.)

And it also makes sense to have UPS and/or Fedex take the master contract and arrange the contract air service themselves. They do this every year at Peak, so they know who to hire and how to manage and direct them. Very often, the gov't tries to manage this stuff itself, which is dumb if it's not a core competency. Why reinvent the wheel when companies who are the best in the world at it are available to hire?

I think if the public actually understood how complex some of these supply chains are they’d be shocked. I’ve been dealing with a few big customers this week that are working to move corona supplies to their stores/businesses. It’s a huge undertaking to rush all of these supplies out all of a sudden. People don’t realize what it takes to send supplies out when companies have literally thousands of locations.

I’ve never seen anything like this outside of peak. And even then you have an idea what is about to come. With how this is going things are changing by the day and sometimes by the hour. At this point though, I’m just happy to be one of those people in the airline industry with a job.


JB22: Agreed! The store distribution operation at Walmart, for example, is so complex it is bewildering. More amazingly, the visibility that they have into that operation is beyond-the-beyond, as is how much of it is automated (i.e. the computer orders another 4 cases of this and 3 cases of that because it sees it going out the door in real time at the checkout counter, and a regional manager can see that 5 stores are light on Strawberry Pop-Tarts, but they're coming in at 7pm on this truck). It's also extremely-flexible and adaptable, so when a regional manager sees an attractive product in one store and hears from associates how well it's selling (there is a surprising amount of local autonomy in the operation -- like Sam wanted there to be) she can suggest to other managers to feature the product, and quickly check to make sure that if she does, they can stock enough of it fast enough to service the promotion. Incredible.

These professionals make it all look so easy, that folks take it for granted. "Why don't they just make another million masks (or test kits) and send them to the hospitals this week?" the reporters ask. If only they knew.

And to your point: In Peak you know from historical flows some of where the demand is going to come from and where the supply is going to come from. With this, all of a sudden NYC is pretty-well supplied for now but other regions are developing hot spots that probably don't have as solid a supply chain as the NYC operations did, and stuff is going to have to be redirected, and the demand may be for surprising things. For example, turns out some regions actually have a significant supply of ventilators, but a puny supply of gloves and gowns. In a situation where there's a natural disaster or something, companies like Cardinal can usually surge a lot of stuff into the region very quickly, and send it right to the pinpoint of demand through an established system. But when everybody has little to surge, the supply chain becomes on-the-fly, which keeps you busy.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:43 pm

So N544LA is on its way to TLV this morning, 4/11/20. Nonstop ILN-TLV. That makes 8 aircraft there in various stages of conversion. I do expect that one will fly back with this ferry crew, leaving 7.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:14 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So N544LA is on its way to TLV this morning, 4/11/20. Nonstop ILN-TLV. That makes 8 aircraft there in various stages of conversion. I do expect that one will fly back with this ferry crew, leaving 7.


Assuming N153DL? It seems to be the one with the most activity as of lately. Maybe 304CM?
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:46 pm

Question with all the 757/767 now being retired, Does anyone think these planes could be bought put into a long term storage and then send for conversion in say a year or two from now?? How long can an engine sit all wrapped up for none usage??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:07 pm

autopiloton wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So N544LA is on its way to TLV this morning, 4/11/20. Nonstop ILN-TLV. That makes 8 aircraft there in various stages of conversion. I do expect that one will fly back with this ferry crew, leaving 7.


Assuming N153DL? It seems to be the one with the most activity as of lately. Maybe 304CM?


One or the other, most likely.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:10 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Question with all the 757/767 now being retired, Does anyone think these planes could be bought put into a long term storage and then send for conversion in say a year or two from now?? How long can an engine sit all wrapped up for none usage??


Yes. No sweat. Jetran is going to look after them and keep them in convertible condition until CAM buys them and sends them over. Some period of time before they are expected to be needed in TLV, they will be "unwrapped" and readied for the flight to ILN, checked-over there, and then sent to TLV from there. That's the process CAM has used for years. It seems by my rough observation that 50-percent or fewer of the ROW-ILN post-mothball flights actually occur as intially planned, and they are cancelled or rescheduled several days hence; either they find something in the run-up or shortly after takeoff. Cracked windshields seemed to happen with some frequently a few years ago, for example.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:19 pm

And for those who follow the goings-on at ILN, now that a bunch of DL 767s are parked there, there will be a number of DL 717s coming over the next several days.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:56 pm

wjcandee wrote:
And for those who follow the goings-on at ILN, now that a bunch of DL 767s are parked there, there will be a number of DL 717s coming over the next several days.


Looks like total of 14 coming Monday and Tuesday, April 13-14.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:20 pm

Going back to the subject of Kohl's, they have gone back to FedEx SmartPost for my most recent shipment. However, I wonder if it will be delivered by the USPS or by FedEx Ground/Home Delivery.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:45 pm

wjcandee wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Like him or lump him, Trump's team was smart about this: smart to just hire private companies that do this stuff very well every day. Making UPS and/or Fedex responsible for flying the stuff over here and then delivering it where it's supposed to go when it's supposed to be there is brilliant. UPS and Fedex do custom warehousing and logistics very well. (So do others, but UPS and FedEx can offer a one-stop-shop for the flying part, the warehousing part, the pick-and-deliver part. Smart. Smart. Smart.)

And it also makes sense to have UPS and/or Fedex take the master contract and arrange the contract air service themselves. They do this every year at Peak, so they know who to hire and how to manage and direct them. Very often, the gov't tries to manage this stuff itself, which is dumb if it's not a core competency. Why reinvent the wheel when companies who are the best in the world at it are available to hire?

I think if the public actually understood how complex some of these supply chains are they’d be shocked. I’ve been dealing with a few big customers this week that are working to move corona supplies to their stores/businesses. It’s a huge undertaking to rush all of these supplies out all of a sudden. People don’t realize what it takes to send supplies out when companies have literally thousands of locations.

I’ve never seen anything like this outside of peak. And even then you have an idea what is about to come. With how this is going things are changing by the day and sometimes by the hour. At this point though, I’m just happy to be one of those people in the airline industry with a job.


JB22: Agreed! The store distribution operation at Walmart, for example, is so complex it is bewildering. More amazingly, the visibility that they have into that operation is beyond-the-beyond, as is how much of it is automated (i.e. the computer orders another 4 cases of this and 3 cases of that because it sees it going out the door in real time at the checkout counter, and a regional manager can see that 5 stores are light on Strawberry Pop-Tarts, but they're coming in at 7pm on this truck). It's also extremely-flexible and adaptable, so when a regional manager sees an attractive product in one store and hears from associates how well it's selling (there is a surprising amount of local autonomy in the operation -- like Sam wanted there to be) she can suggest to other managers to feature the product, and quickly check to make sure that if she does, they can stock enough of it fast enough to service the promotion. Incredible.

These professionals make it all look so easy, that folks take it for granted. "Why don't they just make another million masks (or test kits) and send them to the hospitals this week?" the reporters ask. If only they knew.

And to your point: In Peak you know from historical flows some of where the demand is going to come from and where the supply is going to come from. With this, all of a sudden NYC is pretty-well supplied for now but other regions are developing hot spots that probably don't have as solid a supply chain as the NYC operations did, and stuff is going to have to be redirected, and the demand may be for surprising things. For example, turns out some regions actually have a significant supply of ventilators, but a puny supply of gloves and gowns. In a situation where there's a natural disaster or something, companies like Cardinal can usually surge a lot of stuff into the region very quickly, and send it right to the pinpoint of demand through an established system. But when everybody has little to surge, the supply chain becomes on-the-fly, which keeps you busy.


It is amazing how the free market is able to react and respond to changes far faster and more efficiently than planned economies. Who would expect the local Walmart to know that there is a Shrimp season in the Puget sound, with specific floats, traps, lines, bait, licenses, etc needed. It's the guy running his sporting goods department that knows what the locals there want. Get 30 miles from the Puget Sound and the store has no need to stock. No other store does better than Walmart in stocking the proper stuff. If HQ was doing the ordering, there would be no local specific things there. The local manager plans for the stock on hand and enters that as the targets in the computer, the computer watches what sales and auto reorders.

Something like Cardinal knows their customers and what specific supplies, materials, and equipment is needed. A surgery center doing Endo's needs far different supplies to a birthing unit. Feedback from Cardinal to the government lets the government know where it needs to step in to ensure supplies. The government can get added flights and similar arrangements such that the disrupted freight market can be shipping the stuff to Cardinal. Once this crisis is over, the government can stop being involved, and some empire with thousands of government workers is left to be cut back.
 
autopiloton
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:14 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:46 pm

wjcandee wrote:
autopiloton wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So N544LA is on its way to TLV this morning, 4/11/20. Nonstop ILN-TLV. That makes 8 aircraft there in various stages of conversion. I do expect that one will fly back with this ferry crew, leaving 7.


Assuming N153DL? It seems to be the one with the most activity as of lately. Maybe 304CM?


One or the other, most likely.


Looks like it was N153DL after all. Scheduled into ILN today.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:53 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:

It is amazing how the free market is able to react and respond to changes far faster and more efficiently than planned economies. Who would expect the local Walmart to know that there is a Shrimp season in the Puget sound, with specific floats, traps, lines, bait, licenses, etc needed. It's the guy running his sporting goods department that knows what the locals there want. Get 30 miles from the Puget Sound and the store has no need to stock. No other store does better than Walmart in stocking the proper stuff. If HQ was doing the ordering, there would be no local specific things there. The local manager plans for the stock on hand and enters that as the targets in the computer, the computer watches what sales and auto reorders.

Something like Cardinal knows their customers and what specific supplies, materials, and equipment is needed. A surgery center doing Endo's needs far different supplies to a birthing unit. Feedback from Cardinal to the government lets the government know where it needs to step in to ensure supplies. The government can get added flights and similar arrangements such that the disrupted freight market can be shipping the stuff to Cardinal. Once this crisis is over, the government can stop being involved, and some empire with thousands of government workers is left to be cut back.


Bravo! Very well said.

I saw where the Admiral who is handling the logistics said that the tools that Cardinal and McKesson routinely use (and are sharing with him) gives him incredible visibility into the demand side and supply side down to the hospital and SKU level.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:54 pm

autopiloton wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
autopiloton wrote:

Assuming N153DL? It seems to be the one with the most activity as of lately. Maybe 304CM?


One or the other, most likely.


Looks like it was N153DL after all. Scheduled into ILN today.


Yes! Flew TLV-CVG nonstop, and then to ILN today (4/14/2000).
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:04 pm

wjcandee wrote:
These professionals make it all look so easy, that folks take it for granted. "Why don't they just make another million masks (or test kits) and send them to the hospitals this week?" the reporters ask. If only they knew.


A perfect example of this. Abbott Labs got approval for its new fast test on March 27th. Slightly more than two weeks later Abbott is getting flak because the system is not doing 50,000 tests a day yet. It is a cool system where inside what looks like a printer cartrige contains all of the chemicals and reagents needed to do the test are inside the cartrige. So 50,000 cartriges need to be produced a day 2 weeks after approval, the chemicals and materials need to be sourced, assembled under sterile conditions, boxed, shipped to 4,000 sites that have the testing machine, workers trained, testing centers opened, etc. I see it as a miracle that we have any production 2 weeks after approval, not crucified.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/12/states-sa ... ting-idle/
 
User avatar
Harvestman
Posts: 69
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:23 pm

wjcandee wrote:
autopiloton wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

One or the other, most likely.


Looks like it was N153DL after all. Scheduled into ILN today.


Yes! Flew TLV-CVG nonstop, and then to ILN today (4/14/2000).

April 14, 2000? My how the time flies.

Plenty of interesting stuff on the DHL ramp lately. N725CK (727F leased to Tex Sutton, operated by Kalitta Charters II) has been here for about a week - not sure why it is not in LEX as there is no maintenance work going on. Amerijet's N396CM made a guest appearance yesterday as well.
Worth noting that AMES' brand new hangar is constantly busy as well with both Amazon and DHL jets.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:21 pm

Harvestman: OMG -- where did those 20 years go?? Good catch.

Looks like N725CK actually did a New Orleans turn on Friday, but you're right it hasn't been flying much. I guess the events the horses get flown to aren't active at the moment. No idea why they chose CVG as the place for it to sit. Since K2 is still flying for DHL, maybe it's just more-convenient to crew that way when needed?

Amerijet seems now to have a flight to East Midlands, London and return. Don't know how long they'll be doing that. Also Cargojet is using those two 21Air 762s to fly Canada-CVG and CVG-Mexico for DHL. Don't know what happened to the Aeromex route that one of them was flying that 21Air stole from ABX.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:34 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
These professionals make it all look so easy, that folks take it for granted. "Why don't they just make another million masks (or test kits) and send them to the hospitals this week?" the reporters ask. If only they knew.


A perfect example of this. Abbott Labs got approval for its new fast test on March 27th. Slightly more than two weeks later Abbott is getting flak because the system is not doing 50,000 tests a day yet. It is a cool system where inside what looks like a printer cartrige contains all of the chemicals and reagents needed to do the test are inside the cartrige. So 50,000 cartriges need to be produced a day 2 weeks after approval, the chemicals and materials need to be sourced, assembled under sterile conditions, boxed, shipped to 4,000 sites that have the testing machine, workers trained, testing centers opened, etc. I see it as a miracle that we have any production 2 weeks after approval, not crucified.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/12/states-sa ... ting-idle/


Unlike the Silicon Valley way of doing business, companies like Abbott have to take the time to make sure it's really, truly, ready and correct, and that it's manufactured nearly-perfectly, or people die. That's the business that they're in, and this is why it usually takes a good deal of time to do the things that they do. That they have been able to ramp up so fast is nothing short of amazing. Same with Roche and the other RNA test manufacturers. They should be being lauded, but no. Because people on Twitter are...(okay stop, nothing good can come of this)...er..."uninformed".

(BTW, with all the "why didn't CDC use the [Korea, WHO, German, etc.] test instead of developing their own" drama, someone should stop criticizing long enough to think that maybe the people at the CDC had a reason? And that was that same issue that we're now seeing with several of these rapid tests: about 20 percent false positives and negatives. That's not good enough for here. The tests subsequently developed by Roche, GenMark, etc. are in the 99-percent range in determining what's in a sample. If they say you have it, you have it, 100-percent. There are some false negatives, which are thought to be the result of imperfect swabbing of the nasal and throat cavity by the zillion people of varying skill and experience who are doing this complicated task. They don't snag the viral particles on the swab, so the test comes up negative.)

The air logistics in moving these samples around and the cartridges around is nothing short of amazing. LabCorp and Quest both have their own fleet of aircraft to move samples,and they are very-busy these days.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:42 pm

CALMSP wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
I’d be interested in knowing the board’s thoughts on whether Amazon will be interested in acquiring any of the newly available (retired) 757s?

Benefits include, access to a more capable narrow body, fleet similarity with the 76, and a proven reliable operator in ATI.

Cons include, higher conversion cost?

Anything else?


I still believe the 738 is the way to go. With more and more warehouses being built, why the need to fly sometimes 75% empty 767's cross country.


I believe another interesting option is for the A321P2F program longer term - 757 size with near 738 operating costs....or so they claim...
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:46 pm

wjcandee wrote:
And for those who follow the goings-on at ILN, now that a bunch of DL 767s are parked there, there will be a number of DL 717s coming over the next several days.


Looks like a shopping bonanza for CAM as many of these birds face the prospect of retirement.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:00 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
And for those who follow the goings-on at ILN, now that a bunch of DL 767s are parked there, there will be a number of DL 717s coming over the next several days.


Looks like a shopping bonanza for CAM as many of these birds face the prospect of retirement.


They will certainly have a chance to kick the tires. Of course, given that AMES has been doing the HMVs on a number of DL 767s recently, they know some of them literally inside and out. Funny how just a couple months ago, ATS at MCI and AMES at ILN were doing heavy checks on these DL 767-300s in preparation for a busy summer in a booming economy, and folks like Landlocked Aviation in CWF were painting the aircraft for summer: Landlocked alone had a DL 757 line, a DL T-tail line (usually 717) and a DL A330 line running: one aircraft leaves, another follows, 3 at a time, for months. Then -- poof! Now nothing. I'm sure they're bidding fiercely for the last UPS conversion to be painted and the couple of ATI and Amazon birds yet to be painted, as, I'm sure, is Dean Baldwin. Cargo is the only thing making money. Hell, even Skylease is running its two 747s flat-out right now.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:13 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
I’d be interested in knowing the board’s thoughts on whether Amazon will be interested in acquiring any of the newly available (retired) 757s?

Benefits include, access to a more capable narrow body, fleet similarity with the 76, and a proven reliable operator in ATI.

Cons include, higher conversion cost?

Anything else?


I still believe the 738 is the way to go. With more and more warehouses being built, why the need to fly sometimes 75% empty 767's cross country.


I believe another interesting option is for the A321P2F program longer term - 757 size with near 738 operating costs....or so they claim...



I'm onboard with you there. much lower operating cost.
 
enplaned
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:24 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
I’d be interested in knowing the board’s thoughts on whether Amazon will be interested in acquiring any of the newly available (retired) 757s?

Benefits include, access to a more capable narrow body, fleet similarity with the 76, and a proven reliable operator in ATI.

Cons include, higher conversion cost?

Anything else?


I still believe the 738 is the way to go. With more and more warehouses being built, why the need to fly sometimes 75% empty 767's cross country.


I believe another interesting option is for the A321P2F program longer term - 757 size with near 738 operating costs....or so they claim...


If you can have custom cans to fit the upper lobe of the A321 you can fit more volume into the top of the A321 per foot of length than the 737. Further, Amazon aspires to ultimately automate pretty much everything, and in that regard the ability to use containers in the lower lobe of the A321 could one day be helpful.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:02 am

wjcandee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:

It is amazing how the free market is able to react and respond to changes far faster and more efficiently than planned economies. Who would expect the local Walmart to know that there is a Shrimp season in the Puget sound, with specific floats, traps, lines, bait, licenses, etc needed. It's the guy running his sporting goods department that knows what the locals there want. Get 30 miles from the Puget Sound and the store has no need to stock. No other store does better than Walmart in stocking the proper stuff. If HQ was doing the ordering, there would be no local specific things there. The local manager plans for the stock on hand and enters that as the targets in the computer, the computer watches what sales and auto reorders.

Something like Cardinal knows their customers and what specific supplies, materials, and equipment is needed. A surgery center doing Endo's needs far different supplies to a birthing unit. Feedback from Cardinal to the government lets the government know where it needs to step in to ensure supplies. The government can get added flights and similar arrangements such that the disrupted freight market can be shipping the stuff to Cardinal. Once this crisis is over, the government can stop being involved, and some empire with thousands of government workers is left to be cut back.


Bravo! Very well said.

I saw where the Admiral who is handling the logistics said that the tools that Cardinal and McKesson routinely use (and are sharing with him) gives him incredible visibility into the demand side and supply side down to the hospital and SKU level.


We're wandering a bit off topic....

I think you two are significantly oversimplifying things. Yes, there is some local control at Walmart, but there is also significant top down control as well. Back in the dark ages of 2004-2006 when I worked at Chiquita we managed several categories of product for Walmart. It was our responsibility to ensure proper product quantities at the DCs, and while the stores had local control over exactly how much they wanted to take, I'm not sure they had complete control over SKUs that they carried. For instance we ran a "local" melon program, where we'd source melons from local farms and put them into the Walmart DCs. I'm pretty sure the product managers wouldn't have agreed to that if they didn't know that there would be a mandate to the stores to carry the product. So the product managers in Bentonville, AR handed over DC inventory control to Chiquita employees in Cincinnati, OH for products that were carried in stores across the whole US. Thats not really "local control". (And FWIW, if Chiquita overstocked the Walmart DC and the product went bad because the stores didn't sell enough, the DC could force Chiquita to take that product out of the DC. It didn't happen often, but it did happen.)

Additionally, the local management of items has lead to some hilariously old products on the shelves, as demonstrated by the Consumerist's feature, Raiders of the Lost Walmart. I also briefly worked at Target, and HQ had enough control over things, that they'd force stores to pull old product like that off the shelves and donate it locally, or send it back to the DC for whatever.

Finally, locally variations of inventory is something that many chains do. Kroger keeps various nameplates across the country, and while there are common items, they do stock specifically to local tastes, and even with local products.

Bringing this back to Amazon, one of Amazon's goals is to keep the right products at the warehouses nearest to the customer so the products are local and ship shorter and shorter distances. For instance, most of my packages in Seattle come from Kent or in Oregon, with some spillover into California. Every so often there is some spillover into Nevada, but I rarely see an item that comes to me from east of the Mississippi.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:13 am

US Air Kid-
My apologies if I over simplified, getting a retail company operating well and surviving is a huge challenge. We currently see Amazon, Costco, and Walmart holding sway in the market, because they are able to serve their customers better at lower cost and still remain profitable. Retail has horribly tight margins and the strategy to survive has to evolve. Fourty years ago the retail monster was Sears, it was buying brokerage and real estate firms - now it is a ghost. The whole Mall portion of the business is failing.

My point on the local control is the companies learned that local input to best fit their market improves sales. But yes management at several levels are placing the orders for their products and services. An example of a firm that had very little local input was Sears, our local Silverdale,WA store seemed to be a midwest store, whole areas totally off of the local fashion.

Amazon since the start of Prime has really emphasised the local warehousing. Bremerton is getting its new DC <is it?> for local delivery. Well it is a huge building, many times the size of the UPS facility. Clearly it will be a warehouse similar in size to a Costco for the most common. I order Construction supplies often, as they are more rare items still come from the midwest or south. But it is steadily getting stocked closer to the last mile.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:28 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
US Air Kid-
My apologies if I over simplified, getting a retail company operating well and surviving is a huge challenge. We currently see Amazon, Costco, and Walmart holding sway in the market, because they are able to serve their customers better at lower cost and still remain profitable. Retail has horribly tight margins and the strategy to survive has to evolve. Fourty years ago the retail monster was Sears, it was buying brokerage and real estate firms - now it is a ghost. The whole Mall portion of the business is failing.

My point on the local control is the companies learned that local input to best fit their market improves sales. But yes management at several levels are placing the orders for their products and services. An example of a firm that had very little local input was Sears, our local Silverdale,WA store seemed to be a midwest store, whole areas totally off of the local fashion.

Amazon since the start of Prime has really emphasised the local warehousing. Bremerton is getting its new DC <is it?> for local delivery. Well it is a huge building, many times the size of the UPS facility. Clearly it will be a warehouse similar in size to a Costco for the most common. I order Construction supplies often, as they are more rare items still come from the midwest or south. But it is steadily getting stocked closer to the last mile.


Ah yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking grocery for whatever reason which is an intensely local market. Although I'd argue that Sears has been a poor retailer since at least the 2004 takeover by Lampert's Kmart, if not before. That has been a very sad thing to watch.

I can see Amazon using the Bremerton DC for the last mile sort, and perhaps its large enough to store some items that have the most local demand?
 
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1337Delta764
Topic Author
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:37 pm

Here in Phoenix we now have a dedicated Same-Day Delivery fulfillment center, SAZ1/VAZ1, which also functions as a Delivery Station.

Interestingly, most of my non-Same Day items lately have been shipping from TUS2 (Tucson) instead of PHX6. I know TUS2 is an Amazon Robotics Sortable FC, while PHX6 is a Legacy Sortable.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:20 pm

FWIW, we used Sears as our appliance source actually until very-recently when they closed our nearest store, a big 1970s-era joint with an enormous and largely-unused parking lot. Here in NY, those Midwestern business ethics and practices were such a breath of fresh air. You went to the store, they had every brand, they had people who actually knew what the heck they were talking about, you ordered, their delivery and installation people were extraordinary (for everything from stoves, fridges, hot water heaters, etc.) and free or reasonably-priced. And with a little research, you could hondle (not a Midwestern term) a little on price and get a great value. We didn't always buy Kenmore, but I will put our Kenmore Elite dishwasher up against any fancy European brand: to say that it's unbelievably-quiet is an understatement.

So there were plenty of reasons to go into the stores, but Eddie was not a retail guy and didn't understand how so many people wouldn't go into stores that were in such mediocre and dated condition, so they lost out. And Sears Auto Centers used to be great for quick oil changes, alignments and such. Just SAD.

And they were first with order-online and we'll bring it to your car. And they were exceptional at it -- amazing. Except that the 90-year-olds that still shopped there didn't know what a web browser was. Sad.

Sears should have morphed into what Amazon is now, given that their origins were in the catalog business. All Amazon is is a giant electronic Sears catalog, and it's adding services to become more like same. For example, adding installation services and such. Sears are even today among the best at that (and they're what Home Depot actually uses/used: A&E Appliance is/was owned by Sears, a brand they put on the trucks because customers of Home Depot couldn't understand why when they called for service a guy came in a Sears truck). We could be looking at Sears Air instead of what we are looking at today. But time waits for nobody, especially in Silicon Valley.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:29 pm

I have been looking at FEMA's Air Bridge flights, where UPS as the contractor has brought in KYE, NCR, WGN, CKS and GTI to run freighter flights from around the world to bring in PPE.

There was a post by an NCR (National Cargo) 747 pilot showing a bald eagle circling above his 747 as it unloaded supplies at LCK. Very touching, and I thought I would share with the folks in this thread. (He also has some other good stuff.) https://www.facebook.com/RashaandRocket ... =3&theater
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:21 am

So the Amazon 737-800s due to be flown by Sun Country are starting to arrive.

N542RL and N545RL are arriving at PAE tomorrow and today, respectively, from conversion by way of KIX and ANC. (4/18/20)
N547RL has been at PAE for about 3 weeks (since 3/23/20), having arrived from PVG by way of PNH, GSN, and HNL. Kind of an interesting routing.

We will see how fast Sunny can get them in hand and in-service. I assume there will be a number change, but the FAA web site doesn't yet show a number change pending.
 
mcg
Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:04 pm

Any idea why the routing thru PNH? I wonder if it is somehow ETOPS related, but obviously I have no idea. Second, who crews these flights?
 
MajMattMason
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:58 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:23 pm

Not sure if these tentative dates have been posted:
Old #.......new #.....projected date in service
153DL.....449AZ...July 1’st
JA8362...431AZ...August 1’st
379AA.....457AZ...September 1’st
JA8286...433AZ...October 1’st

360CM gets painted in AMZ colors and new re registered as 443AZ. In service date June 1’st
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:27 pm

wjcandee wrote:
FWIW, we used Sears as our appliance source actually until very-recently when they closed our nearest store, a big 1970s-era joint with an enormous and largely-unused parking lot. Here in NY, those Midwestern business ethics and practices were such a breath of fresh air. You went to the store, they had every brand, they had people who actually knew what the heck they were talking about, you ordered, their delivery and installation people were extraordinary (for everything from stoves, fridges, hot water heaters, etc.) and free or reasonably-priced. And with a little research, you could hondle (not a Midwestern term) a little on price and get a great value. We didn't always buy Kenmore, but I will put our Kenmore Elite dishwasher up against any fancy European brand: to say that it's unbelievably-quiet is an understatement.

But time waits for nobody, especially in Silicon Valley.


Time has not waited for Sears, except for letting some decrepid K marts to stay open.

So true about the Sears appliance store, I've bought 3 stoves, several refrigerators, several microwaves, and a freezer from there. Bigger selection and better prices, and the salesmen had some bargaining space. The Craftsman tools were amazing, several Craftsman lawnmowers, lots of tires and batteries from the automotive but our store's auto service was just so-so and I had found a great mechanic - so not there. But furniture seemed out of style (JC Penney was the best there) and the clothing was so not the current fashion here.

My beach cottage on the Hood Canal has a cheap Amana dishwasher from 4 years ago, the house in town has a Bosch that cost 2.5X as much. The Amana is much better, holding up well, only complaint is it takes 3.5 hours vs just over 2 for the Bosch. Never buying the fancy European brands again. I like dishwashers to have heaters so the dishes come out dry, rather than needing several hours with the door open to finally dry.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:35 pm

MajMatt: Those dates haven't been posted before. Thanks for the details and schedule!

Interesting how long it's actually taking. The ANA Cargo planes have been around for many months, so interesting that the first one won't be on-duty for 3.5 more, and that they're expecting another 2.5 months to do paint (2 weeks) and conformity (usually 2-ish weeks) on 153DL.

As far as 360CM and 379AA go, they're already active on Amazon, albeit I guess technically as ATI spares, so that's not a huge volume increase. I suppose that the currently-flyable planes could also serve that function before the in-service dates, just not in Amazon Air livery, if they were needed. Amazon has been and is being very-deliberate in terms of the speed with which it expands the air fleet, I guess in consultation with the operating airlines. It's no small thing to staff five more widebodies, although as I noted two are already flying on ATI's certificate.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:38 pm

mcg wrote:
Any idea why the routing thru PNH? I wonder if it is somehow ETOPS related, but obviously I have no idea. Second, who crews these flights?


That's one possibility. There was also some talk about certain China restrictions making it difficult for a period of time to get the aircraft out of China. Apparently, they have been finished for a while. Maybe having that first plane, several weeks ago, make its first stop in Cambodia took advantage of some loophole. The other two took a more-typical route, perhaps now that the export situation has clarified a bit.

As to pilots, I heard that Boeing provided them; it seems like they're going to a Boeing facility stateside, and will be delivered there. OTOH, they're already GECAS-owned aircraft, so GECAS could be providing the flight crews and what I heard could be inaccurate.
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1601
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:10 pm

SY pilots fly to PAE The Sun Prime A/C are not going to Boeing but to AAR. The have a contract with SY to do conformity to SY flown jets.The first cargo jet, number escapes me, arrives in MSP tomorrow for the FAA to sign off for SY to use, add to their certificate. Thursday the first flies to TPA to fly TPA-CVG-TPA I think 2 in TPA, MSP, AFW with a spare in MSP. After that, west coast. Once second one comes online, routes expand. Should have 7 at end of May early June depending on getting them out of China/Shanghai. As of today Sun Prime (as I call the ops) has 3 planes state side.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
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