Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:43 pm

So watching the Amazon Air mission to the Far East today, presumably to pick up PPE for Amazon employees (as mentioned in the commercial I linked to), I'm wondering whether they're gonna load up at ICN, or go further. If they can do it at ICN, I think that's going to be far less complicated for them, but we'll see!

Oddly, I haven't seen any PR or news about this so far. Maybe they're waiting for the flight to return. So now the question becomes: where's it gonna land in the CONUS?

Edit: I'm also interested in the turn time. When National does this Air Bridge run (into mainland China), they put 2 or 3 flight crews on the 747, plus 2 ride-along mechanics and a loadmaster, so they don't stage any crews overseas and just turn and blow.
 
jreeves96
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:35 pm

5Y3912 is minutes away from landing in ICN from BWI via ANC.

Will later depart, 4/24 16:30z to PVG, ANC and then ONT.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:48 am

jreeves96 wrote:
5Y3912 is minutes away from landing in ICN from BWI via ANC.

Will later depart, 4/24 16:30z to PVG, ANC and then ONT.


So it's gonna be on the ground at ICN for 17 hours? That's an interesting plan. I guess everyone's gonna go to the hotel and get some sleep.
 
dcs921
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:11 am

Interesting way to handle the flight indeed. I suspect the lack of room on the 767 for extra crews and support staff requires them to have an extended turn time instead of using National's plan for the Air Bridge flights.
 
jreeves96
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:48 pm

Airplane threw an indicator light to the pilots while in Baltimore. Issue was deferred, Atlas ICN fixes issue.

Also note, had the same crew ANC-ICN-PVG-ANC so crew also needed adequate rest in ICN.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:03 am

And already a photo of this flight arriving in ICN is up on the database. Very nice.



Should be in ANC in a few hours. I'm surprised no PR about this yet.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:17 pm

And...the flight landed today in ONT with the PPE. Haven't seen a thing about it in the media.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3498
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:41 am

wjcandee wrote:
And...the flight landed today in ONT with the PPE. Haven't seen a thing about it in the media.

Probably keep it in their back pocket in case there are more protests in front of their FCs.

Hate to think that way, but they don’t mess around.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4342
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:21 pm

A couple of slightly off topic observations:
Most of my slightly obscure food stuffs (I am on a strict diabetic diet) came from the east coast. The orders seemingly sat for 2-5 days, then came by air and were quickly delivered, ahead of schedule. Maybe they just were waiting and knew what day a plane was available.(?)

Republicans have often stated their desire to destroy the USPS, they may succeed, Trump wants them to raise Amazon rates by 400%. I think he expects to kill two birds with one stone. Rural America would be the unintended victim. How will Amazon counter? I would expect an amazing expansion of Amazon Vans delivering.

ps - while at heart I am a city guy, I have spent decades in rural areas and have always voted for what they needed (which is counter to how they vote).
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2430
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:18 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
A couple of slightly off topic observations:
Most of my slightly obscure food stuffs (I am on a strict diabetic diet) came from the east coast. The orders seemingly sat for 2-5 days, then came by air and were quickly delivered, ahead of schedule. Maybe they just were waiting and knew what day a plane was available.(?)

Republicans have often stated their desire to destroy the USPS, they may succeed, Trump wants them to raise Amazon rates by 400%. I think he expects to kill two birds with one stone. Rural America would be the unintended victim. How will Amazon counter? I would expect an amazing expansion of Amazon Vans delivering.

ps - while at heart I am a city guy, I have spent decades in rural areas and have always voted for what they needed (which is counter to how they vote).


Trump, like many, fundamentally misunderstands Amazon. Make USPS too expensive for Amazon, Amazon will just do it themselves for less. That won't save USPS, but the opposite, it will create its demise and make Amazon the privatized USPS.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:26 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The orders seemingly sat for 2-5 days, then came by air and were quickly delivered, ahead of schedule


Probably more a matter of estimating how long it will take to process that order after all the orders in front of it. In the same way that companies that provide home food delivery here in NYC, like Baldor, are booking deliveries about 6 days in advance, Amazon knows how many orders can be processed in the relevant warehouse during the relevant time-frame, and is essentially making commitments for the picking and packing of those items on future shifts. Once processed, there may be some backup of trailers and such moving packages into the system and then to delivery. I guess your (and my) experiences depend on a lot of micro factors that we can't know about our particular purchases.
 
MO11
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:15 pm

The next two 737s were leased to Amazon on Monday (N542/545RL).
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:45 pm

does anyone know if the new European ops will be in AMZ paint schemes for their base in LEJ?
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:51 pm

Also, it seems like Amazon is giving the higher priority items One-Day Shipping once shipped, while lower priority items get Two-Day or Standard. Note that this is once the item is shipped, not the amount of days it would take for the item to be delivered (although I have received a few items in one day).
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:07 pm

N547RL is still at MSP.
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:42 pm

The Sun Prime planes are going to be re registered. SY has 10 numbers reserved. I don't remember the new numbers off hand. They will not follow the SY numbers N8XXSY
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:20 am

Also, Amazon seems to be reserving the dedicated Same-Day warehouses (SAZ1/VAZ1 here in the Phoenix area) to the very most essential items. In addition, Amazon is temporarily using some space from dedicated apparel warehouses for essentials; I recently had non-clothing shipments from PHX3 and ONT6 (interestingly PHX3 used to be Sortable, and ONT6 used to be a mix of Sortable and apparel).
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:06 am

sunking737 wrote:
The Sun Prime planes are going to be re registered. SY has 10 numbers reserved. I don't remember the new numbers off hand. They will not follow the SY numbers N8XXSY


Nothing on the FAA web site yet, but from somewhere I have N547RL as going to be N5261A. 5261 is a prime number, so it's plausible.
 
GoodRide
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:06 am

I just don’t understand why Amazon continues to paint their airplanes in Prime Air livery after going to great lengths to rebrand to Amazon Air? I’m sure there’s a reasoning behind it, but on its face it seems like a glaring branding oversight.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 666
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:06 am

GoodRide wrote:
I just don’t understand why Amazon continues to paint their airplanes in Prime Air livery after going to great lengths to rebrand to Amazon Air? I’m sure there’s a reasoning behind it, but on its face it seems like a glaring branding oversight.


The stencils are already paid for?
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:24 am

GoodRide wrote:
I just don’t understand why Amazon continues to paint their airplanes in Prime Air livery after going to great lengths to rebrand to Amazon Air? I’m sure there’s a reasoning behind it, but on its face it seems like a glaring branding oversight.


Most likely because they're marketing Prime. I agree you shouldn't tell an Amazonian anything about Prime Air unless you mean the drone thing, or you will be corrected, but what they call it and what the planes say might logically be considered two different things. I notice from the latest commercial that Sarah Rhodes is described as VP of "Amazon Global Air", so who knows? It's just a name.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:46 am

BTW, I was impressed by the weight that that Amazon PPE flight from Asia must have been carrying, but watching some of these Air Bridge and other SOO, GTI and PAC Far East and South America flights recently, where a desire for low travel time and to turn the airplane fast has led to some interesting tempos and routings, they're really getting something out of their aircraft. Southern flew a 777 back to LAX from HKG tonight, nonstop, with a combined cargo and fuel weight that put it at 29,000 feet for its first hour-and-a-half across the Pacific, then to 31,000 for the next 3.5 hours, then to its final cruise altitude of 33,000 for the next 7. They ain't going out light. And that's apparently a fairly-typical profile when they do that route nonstop these days. (The Cathay and UAL pax 777s which run this route, which are no doubt stuffed to the gills with cargo down below these days, usually start out at 33,000 and arrive at 37,000 or 39,000. Big difference.)
 
enplaned
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:04 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
A couple of slightly off topic observations:
Republicans have often stated their desire to destroy the USPS, they may succeed, Trump wants them to raise Amazon rates by 400%. I think he expects to kill two birds with one stone. Rural America would be the unintended victim. How will Amazon counter? I would expect an amazing expansion of Amazon Vans delivering.

ps - while at heart I am a city guy, I have spent decades in rural areas and have always voted for what they needed (which is counter to how they vote).


Amazon is nothing if not paranoid. They heard Trump start fulminating against the Amazon and the USPS years ago and it's inconceivable that they have not taken steps to reduce/eliminate their reliance upon them for last mile. Countering Trump is not something that's to happen - it's something that's already happened.

I can't remember the last time I got something when the last mile was the USPS, whereas a few years ago it was routine.

Should Trump get his way, he'll find that the damage to Amazon is negligible.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4342
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:08 pm

And who else could buy a bankrupt USPS. And what senator could survive in a Red State after the post office quits delivering. They (the senators) don't have a clue.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:08 pm

wjcandee wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
I just don’t understand why Amazon continues to paint their airplanes in Prime Air livery after going to great lengths to rebrand to Amazon Air? I’m sure there’s a reasoning behind it, but on its face it seems like a glaring branding oversight.


Most likely because they're marketing Prime. I agree you shouldn't tell an Amazonian anything about Prime Air unless you mean the drone thing, or you will be corrected, but what they call it and what the planes say might logically be considered two different things. I notice from the latest commercial that Sarah Rhodes is described as VP of "Amazon Global Air", so who knows? It's just a name.


which makes me wonder if they've integrated Amazon Air globally instead of having it separated by continents....meaning Europe was doing their own thing and completely separate from the air team in the US.
 
mcg
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:49 pm

enplaned wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
A couple of slightly off topic observations:
Republicans have often stated their desire to destroy the USPS, they may succeed, Trump wants them to raise Amazon rates by 400%. I think he expects to kill two birds with one stone. Rural America would be the unintended victim. How will Amazon counter? I would expect an amazing expansion of Amazon Vans delivering.

ps - while at heart I am a city guy, I have spent decades in rural areas and have always voted for what they needed (which is counter to how they vote).


Amazon is nothing if not paranoid. They heard Trump start fulminating against the Amazon and the USPS years ago and it's inconceivable that they have not taken steps to reduce/eliminate their reliance upon them for last mile. Countering Trump is not something that's to happen - it's something that's already happened.

I can't remember the last time I got something when the last mile was the USPS, whereas a few years ago it was routine.

Should Trump get his way, he'll find that the damage to Amazon is negligible.


and the damage to USPS would be terminal. I think even a small (10%) rate increase from the USPS to Amazon would drive a massive shift away from USPS by Amazon.
 
MO11
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 2:38 am

N741AX ferried to ROW today (without callsign). Paint for?
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 2:59 am

MO11 wrote:
N741AX ferried to ROW today (without callsign). Paint for?


You know, Amerijet needs more aircraft and it doesn't look like they're gonna have an opportunity for a -300 from CAM anytime soon, unless they grab up one of those LAN birds that are slowly making their way through the line at TLV, and at least one of which I think must be going to UPS (either that or 384AA, which wouldn't be through paint and conformity until at least September 2020). So although 741 was an Amerijet lease return, it could be going back there after a long time out of service. It came back to ILN on 5/30/18 -- almost two years ago -- and moved to Pemco/TPA on 1/3/19 after having the engines reinstalled, where it has been since then.

That's Possibility Number One. Number Two is SkyTaxi, which had always said that it wanted a second aircraft, and has been flying the heck out of the aircraft his has now. For several weeks, SP-MRF (a CAM lease) was flying WAW-China-Almaty (fuel stop)- WAW, over and over and over. But I thought that 773AX might be the 762 for them, given that it was recently-overhauled, leased to West Air, and then promptly-returned without a subsequent taker.

Or Cargojet, which likes 762s enough to actually convert one recently. Or 21Air, which is flying ACMI for Cargojet and Aeromex (or at least was flying for AeroMex, having stolen the route from ABX Air, until it got the Cargojet contract to fly Canada-CVG-Mexico for DHL.)

Sentimentally, it would be nice to see it go back to ABX Air for some new business, but nothing much new seems to be coming their way, which is a shame. I was hoping they might get some Air Bridge or other extra work, given that there's a lot of demand out there right now for the larger widebody aircraft, at least, but I guess not.

I can't see it going to work on Amazon routes at ABX or ATI, but I have been surprised before.

Reality: All speculation. No idea.

We will know in 14 days.

PS It could be going for storage or breakup, but CAM usually brings those to ILN (like 792AX and 798AX, and many others). So most likely this is paint at Dean Baldwin.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4719
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 12:49 pm

I agree it’s not going to the breakers. Looking at the SDRs it just had a heavy check reported in March as WJC said down at PEMCO. This one, like 773ax and the Skybus lease are all in the same boat with over 43,000 cycles on them, so it really is just a matter of a few more years of use by any operator before they hit that wall and get parted out.

N741ax is slightly remarkable though as it’s the first -232 I’ve seen hit those crazy high cycle numbers, as opposed to all the -281s. Atlas has 4 -281s flying for their DHL ops in the same situation so you will see a lot of decisions made on future 762 fleets pretty soon. With that in mind the Cargojet decision doesn’t seem quite so crazy.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
MO11
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 2:36 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Sentimentally, it would be nice to see it go back to ABX Air for some new business, but nothing much new seems to be coming their way, which is a shame.


I figured that since it wasn't "ABX36", it was a non-ATSG crew flying it.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 3:28 pm

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Sentimentally, it would be nice to see it go back to ABX Air for some new business, but nothing much new seems to be coming their way, which is a shame.


I figured that since it wasn't "ABX36", it was a non-ATSG crew flying it.


It's not on the ABX cert, as you point out, at least at this point.

As I understand it, movements for CAM are done by crews retained by ATSG. These can be comprised of current or recently-retired folks at the ATSG airlines, if I recall what someone told me a couple of years ago. I did notice, for example, that the guy who brought the ex-ANA Cargo 763 back from paint in CWF was wearing an ATI lanyard and credentials.
 
jreeves96
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 4:08 pm

wjcandee wrote:
BTW, I was impressed by the weight that that Amazon PPE flight from Asia must have been carrying, but watching some of these Air Bridge and other SOO, GTI and PAC Far East and South America flights recently, where a desire for low travel time and to turn the airplane fast has led to some interesting tempos and routings, they're really getting something out of their aircraft. Southern flew a 777 back to LAX from HKG tonight, nonstop, with a combined cargo and fuel weight that put it at 29,000 feet for its first hour-and-a-half across the Pacific, then to 31,000 for the next 3.5 hours, then to its final cruise altitude of 33,000 for the next 7. They ain't going out light. And that's apparently a fairly-typical profile when they do that route nonstop these days. (The Cathay and UAL pax 777s which run this route, which are no doubt stuffed to the gills with cargo down below these days, usually start out at 33,000 and arrive at 37,000 or 39,000. Big difference.)


The Southern flight you're referencing had a payload of 88,700 kgs. Right around average for DHL flights as aircraft wasn't full and had a few voids.

A 777 I worked that had PPE had a payload of 41,877 kgs. The PPE flights are light weight.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 8:30 pm

Jreeves96: Thanks for that information. Interesting given that word from friends in China is that DHL is swamped and they have been using other means to get things to the US. If the aircraft had voids, that's interesting.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 2:52 am

As far as I can tell, Amazon has only done the one PPE flight to Asia, but these Air Bridge and other Asia cargo flights are blowing and going, and it appears that there is an expectation that they will be going for some time.

Witness WGN, which at the start of this had a bunch of planes parked at their headquarters in RSW and at their in-house maintenance facility at SHV, and one MD11 (N435KD) parked in MHV. I kind of mocked them about a week ago, because it seemed as if they weren't prepared to step up to the opportunity, whereas KYE and NCR were milking it for everything it's worth. I have never seen the KYE aircraft operate at the tempo they are currently-holding. The aircraft have rarely stopped anywhere for more than 2-3 hours in the past several weeks, with a couple of 12-hour-or-less stays at their home base of MIA, presumably for light checks, and then right back in the air. (They're relatively-recent factory 747-400Fs, but nobody expects the KYE aircraft to be in top condition. Yet they have been running smoothly, unlike, of course, several of the WGN MD11s, which have been breaking.) On runs to, say, MVD for PPE, the KYE aircraft are on the ground maybe 1.5 hours and then flying again, much like the NCR aircraft. And it seems like the gov't and UPS (the Air Bridge prime contractor) have a clear preference for 747s -- any old 747 -- so WGN seemed to be caught with its pants down when one of its two 747s was sitting in SHV for 4 months apparently without being made airworthy (or, perhaps, without sufficient pilots to operate it). Similarly, they had MD11 435KD in the desert, and 546JN, 581JN, and, very quickly, 411SN all in SHV. So 5 of their 14 aircraft, or more than 33 percent, unserviceable. I'm guessing that they hadn't planned to get them in the air until Peak, so why spend the money now? However, I'm eating my words because they just put 747 344KD in the air on Saturday. (It didn't get very far on its flight to ANC: it climbed to 4000 feet and came around and landed, so... But they're plainly trying.) They put 546KD in the air over a week ago. And they have now brought 435KD to SHV from the desert. So it looks like they are spending the money to get their whole fleet in service to capture the opportunity.

The point of this is that it wouldn't be worth it to a company like WGN if they didn't expect the high prices and/or high opportunity to continue for at least a few months. So I find that interesting. (FWIW, some of the Air Bridge flights, perhaps all, are operating under the AMC reimbursement rates, which aren't anything like the extortionate prices people are getting for flights at the moment, but they are nevertheless solid prices. I don't know how many of WGN's flights are being booked by brokers and how many are under the government contract, but regardless there's a bunch of business out there right now.)

Given all this, I was kind of musing whether Amazon Global Air might not find their way into this space for purposes of moving the goods of some of its foreign vendors and/or sellers into the US on their own metal. There are probably some significant barriers to entry, and maybe not enough metal, but they're generally not a company that lets opportunities pass...

PS If anybody's interested, the NCR aircraft are N919CA and 952CA. The KYE aircraft are 903AR and 904AR. The WGN 747s are 344KD (SHV) and 356KD, and the WGN MD11s are 411SN (SHV), 412SN, 415JN, 435KD (was MHV now SHV), 512JN, 513SN, 542KD, 543JN, 545JN, 546JN, 581JN (SHV) and 799JN. SN is for "Sunny Neff", owner, and JN for husband Jim Neff, owner/founder/CEO.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:23 am

BTW, if you ever wondered why UPS 3 Day Select isn't called 3rd Day Air, there is a specific reason for that. In truth, a large portion of 3 Day Select packages are transported via ground with a higher priority over regular UPS Ground. For 3 Day Select, air transportation is only used if absolutely necessary, and often only for a particular leg (such from the origin city to the nearest UPS air cargo hub, where it would go via ground from there to the destination city).
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:28 am

1337Delta764: You always have such interesting tidbits! Of course I have a habit of sending Next Day Air Letters within the Northeast, and they always end up going by ground. A profitable little bit of business for UPS!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:37 am

And FWIW, after I posted my seemingly definitive post above, I noticed that WGN snuck stored former Atlas tail N497MC from MHV to SHV under my nose a little over a week ago (with its Atlas livery painted over in white on the fuselage and blue on the tail). But ex-LH MD11 N804SN is still sitting at SHV as it has for nearly two years, and N630SN is still in OSC, where WGN used to have its maintenance done, for 4 years, although they're still on the certificate...
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 4:09 am

wjcandee wrote:
And FWIW, after I posted my seemingly definitive post above, I noticed that WGN snuck stored former Atlas tail N497MC from MHV to SHV under my nose a little over a week ago (with its Atlas livery painted over in white on the fuselage and blue on the tail). But ex-LH MD11 N804SN is still sitting at SHV as it has for nearly two years, and N630SN is still in OSC, where WGN used to have its maintenance done, for 4 years, although they're still on the certificate...


WGN also revived an MD-11F out of storage yesterday from MHV, N435KD. Flew to SHV under KD9435. Also, quick correction N497MC was stored at MZJ not MHV.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n435kd
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 6:12 am

Thank you, nice catch! My brain cramped on the previous storage location of 497MC. You are of course correct -- it's MZJ.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3498
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 11:22 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
BTW, if you ever wondered why UPS 3 Day Select isn't called 3rd Day Air, there is a specific reason for that. In truth, a large portion of 3 Day Select packages are transported via ground with a higher priority over regular UPS Ground. For 3 Day Select, air transportation is only used if absolutely necessary, and often only for a particular leg (such from the origin city to the nearest UPS air cargo hub, where it would go via ground from there to the destination city).

If it is 3 day transit or less it rides right next to the ground. Same with any other air that we can maintain service and move through a ground feed
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3498
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 11:28 pm

Just an observation I’ve made over the last week or so...is Amazon shifting a lot of flights to certain areas? My office faces out to the taxiway at our airport and we used to see 7-10 flights a day easy. Now seeing one is almost an exception. Looking at Flightradar they only had 2 turns today.

It’s just been a dramatic turn. I swear I spent half my day watching ABX and Atlas jets taxing past.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 11:40 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
BTW, if you ever wondered why UPS 3 Day Select isn't called 3rd Day Air, there is a specific reason for that. In truth, a large portion of 3 Day Select packages are transported via ground with a higher priority over regular UPS Ground. For 3 Day Select, air transportation is only used if absolutely necessary, and often only for a particular leg (such from the origin city to the nearest UPS air cargo hub, where it would go via ground from there to the destination city).

If it is 3 day transit or less it rides right next to the ground. Same with any other air that we can maintain service and move through a ground feed


Yes, I once had a Costco package shipped from Eastvale, CA via 3 Day Select for some strange reason and it arrived in two days as Ground normally would.

Also, here in the Phoenix area, most Ground, SurePost, and some 3 Day Select are sorted through the Goodyear sorting hub (local shipments usually being the exception), while 2nd Day Air and Next Day Air are usually sorted through the Phoenix Sky Harbor sorting hub.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3498
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 12:27 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
BTW, if you ever wondered why UPS 3 Day Select isn't called 3rd Day Air, there is a specific reason for that. In truth, a large portion of 3 Day Select packages are transported via ground with a higher priority over regular UPS Ground. For 3 Day Select, air transportation is only used if absolutely necessary, and often only for a particular leg (such from the origin city to the nearest UPS air cargo hub, where it would go via ground from there to the destination city).

If it is 3 day transit or less it rides right next to the ground. Same with any other air that we can maintain service and move through a ground feed


Yes, I once had a Costco package shipped from Eastvale, CA via 3 Day Select for some strange reason and it arrived in two days as Ground normally would.

Also, here in the Phoenix area, most Ground, SurePost, and some 3 Day Select are sorted through the Goodyear sorting hub (local shipments usually being the exception), while 2nd Day Air and Next Day Air are usually sorted through the Phoenix Sky Harbor sorting hub.

The origin is going to determine where it gets sorted. If it flies Sky Harbor will see it. If it grounds out it is probably going to be Goodyear
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5909
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 12:54 am

Also, if you ever wondered about the fulfillment center codes on AMZL labels, on the bottom of the label you can see which fulfillment centers, airports, and sortation centers your package transited through. The fulfillment center code on the upper left is the returns center if your package is undeliverable - usually where I live Sortable gets assigned LEX2 (Lexington, KY), Non-Sortable and any oversize packages get assigned CVG2 (Hebron, KY), and apparel gets assigned LAS2 (North Las Vegas, NV); this is for AMZL; may be different for other carriers.
 
CX747
Posts: 6255
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:40 am

Atlas Air has brought back several 747s from the desert. N429MC, N471MC and N473MC are all back on the line and doing yeoman's work. Those birds alone are 75% of the 747-400 "converted freighters", that Atlas parked just less than 2-3 months ago.

Did WGN buy N497MC from Atlas? Seems like it may just be a lease. I'd love for it to be a purchase. Having a small carrier strike while the iron is hot and grow at this time of massive cuts would be a nice story!

Moldova based Aerotranscargo is reporting that ex-Thai 747-400 HS-TGJ has been added to their portfolio and ready to go from today (5/5/20) moving forward.

AirCargoLogic is also supposedly firing on all of their 747 cylinders.

Do we know to what extent additional 747 lift is available?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX747
Posts: 6255
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:42 am

wjcandee wrote:
As far as I can tell, Amazon has only done the one PPE flight to Asia, but these Air Bridge and other Asia cargo flights are blowing and going, and it appears that there is an expectation that they will be going for some time.

Witness WGN, which at the start of this had a bunch of planes parked at their headquarters in RSW and at their in-house maintenance facility at SHV, and one MD11 (N435KD) parked in MHV. I kind of mocked them about a week ago, because it seemed as if they weren't prepared to step up to the opportunity, whereas KYE and NCR were milking it for everything it's worth. I have never seen the KYE aircraft operate at the tempo they are currently-holding. The aircraft have rarely stopped anywhere for more than 2-3 hours in the past several weeks, with a couple of 12-hour-or-less stays at their home base of MIA, presumably for light checks, and then right back in the air. (They're relatively-recent factory 747-400Fs, but nobody expects the KYE aircraft to be in top condition. Yet they have been running smoothly, unlike, of course, several of the WGN MD11s, which have been breaking.) On runs to, say, MVD for PPE, the KYE aircraft are on the ground maybe 1.5 hours and then flying again, much like the NCR aircraft. And it seems like the gov't and UPS (the Air Bridge prime contractor) have a clear preference for 747s -- any old 747 -- so WGN seemed to be caught with its pants down when one of its two 747s was sitting in SHV for 4 months apparently without being made airworthy (or, perhaps, without sufficient pilots to operate it). Similarly, they had MD11 435KD in the desert, and 546JN, 581JN, and, very quickly, 411SN all in SHV. So 5 of their 14 aircraft, or more than 33 percent, unserviceable. I'm guessing that they hadn't planned to get them in the air until Peak, so why spend the money now? However, I'm eating my words because they just put 747 344KD in the air on Saturday. (It didn't get very far on its flight to ANC: it climbed to 4000 feet and came around and landed, so... But they're plainly trying.) They put 546KD in the air over a week ago. And they have now brought 435KD to SHV from the desert. So it looks like they are spending the money to get their whole fleet in service to capture the opportunity.

The point of this is that it wouldn't be worth it to a company like WGN if they didn't expect the high prices and/or high opportunity to continue for at least a few months. So I find that interesting. (FWIW, some of the Air Bridge flights, perhaps all, are operating under the AMC reimbursement rates, which aren't anything like the extortionate prices people are getting for flights at the moment, but they are nevertheless solid prices. I don't know how many of WGN's flights are being booked by brokers and how many are under the government contract, but regardless there's a bunch of business out there right now.)

Given all this, I was kind of musing whether Amazon Global Air might not find their way into this space for purposes of moving the goods of some of its foreign vendors and/or sellers into the US on their own metal. There are probably some significant barriers to entry, and maybe not enough metal, but they're generally not a company that lets opportunities pass...

PS If anybody's interested, the NCR aircraft are N919CA and 952CA. The KYE aircraft are 903AR and 904AR. The WGN 747s are 344KD (SHV) and 356KD, and the WGN MD11s are 411SN (SHV), 412SN, 415JN, 435KD (was MHV now SHV), 512JN, 513SN, 542KD, 543JN, 545JN, 546JN, 581JN (SHV) and 799JN. SN is for "Sunny Neff", owner, and JN for husband Jim Neff, owner/founder/CEO.


This type of info is what makes this discussion, hands down the best I've seen in all my time here! I tip my cap to you sir.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20346
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:56 am

Has Amazon committed to any new conversions? 767 stock seems to be available, but is Amazon signing contracts to convert more aircraft?
Winter is coming.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:09 am

CX747 wrote:
Did WGN buy N497MC from Atlas? Seems like it may just be a lease. I'd love for it to be a purchase. Having a small carrier strike while the iron is hot and grow at this time of massive cuts would be a nice story!
?


On the small carrier thing, I'm enjoying watching NCR's guys make those Air Bridge trips, and they're just keeping them moving, as has, as I mentioned, KYE.

I don't know if 497MC is a lease or not. The FAA site still has the original certificate from 1999, when Atlas began operating it factory-fresh for Air China, with Wells Fargo as the trustee for the owners. Most Atlas-owned-and-operated aircraft are certificated to Atlas Air, and most of the aircraft they lease to others are carried on, and certificated to, Titan or Andromeda, their leasing subsidiaries. I don't know if Wells has just been subbed in recently on the certificate, which would indicate an ownership change or upcoming ownership change, or whether this particular aircraft had a different financing arrangement from the get-go. In other words, the certificate in its current state doesn't tell me much.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9071
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 4:21 am

CX747: There was a nifty article I saw somewhere today about how the 747 is extraordinarily in-demand and newly-appreciated in this strange time. Think it was the WSJ. I'll see if I can find it because you might enjoy it.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4719
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:20 pm

wjcandee wrote:
CX747: There was a nifty article I saw somewhere today about how the 747 is extraordinarily in-demand and newly-appreciated in this strange time. Think it was the WSJ. I'll see if I can find it because you might enjoy it.


The 747 can sometimes really launch a smaller company. Back around Operation Desert Shield I used to do Tang Soo Do with a few Kalitta clan members in Detroit. Getting the 747 for that massive airlift over to the sandbox completely changed the scale of Kalitta forever. Maybe this might for some of these other smaller carriers.

Or they might just go the way of Gemini.

Back on to Amazon, placed an order on prime a few days ago for the first time in quite a while. Delivery dates are really far out. While the Prime Air flights are going out heavy, there aren’t any additional rotations. Is there any more getting shifted to UPS air, or other carriers?
The last of the famous international playboys

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos