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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 2:01 am

And N449AZ, formerly N153DL, went to ROW today (052920) for paint at Dean Baldwin. She's the next of this year's 5 aircraft to go to Amazon. Converted at TLV from 9/15/19 to 4/14/20. Should be in service around July 1, 2020. She flew to ROW on an ATI flight number, so presumably will be operated by them (as opposed to ABX).

When doing SDRs from the heavy maintenance that she got while she was being converted, IAI pegged 153DL at only 21,520 cycles, but 115,381 hours. N354AA had those kinds of hours, which is why some on here thought that she was being pulled from the desert for parts, but she is now N397AZ, and has been running pretty-good for Amazon for about 8 months now.

And right now, it looks like N392AN is going to try to fly nonstop to TLV from ILN on the afternoon of 5/30/20. We will see how that goes. Sometimes the gremlins appear and it takes a few attempts to get rolling on that delivery flight. Sending best wishes their way.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 9:24 am

N443AZ (formerly N360CM, ex-AA N7375A) entered service for Amazon on ATI tonight with a flight from ILN-ORD.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 9:31 am

And N741AX delivery flight arrived SZB via HKG-GUA-HNL-ILN today, 5/30/20.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 2:06 pm

wjcandee wrote:
N443AZ (formerly N360CM, ex-AA N7375A) entered service for Amazon on ATI tonight with a flight from ILN-ORD.


Yup. Delivered yesterday to Amazon, along with N451CC.
 
jjbiv
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 6:09 pm

wjcandee wrote:
And N741AX delivery flight arrived SZB via HKG-GUA-HNL-ILN today, 5/30/20.


Guam is GUM. Guatemala is a bit out of the way.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 6:30 pm

jjbiv wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
And N741AX delivery flight arrived SZB via HKG-GUA-HNL-ILN today, 5/30/20.


Guam is GUM. Guatemala is a bit out of the way.


Yeah. Typo/brain-cramp. Got it right in earlier posts.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 9:47 pm

So N392AN is now about a third of its way along its nonstop route ILN-TLV today (5/30/20). That will make 8 CAM 767-300s in TLV for conversion. Two of them should be coming back as completed BDSFs in the next few days.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 10:12 pm

As previously discussed, we're expecting N308CM and N379AA to be heading back from conversion at TLV this week. The former going to UPS as N395UP and the latter to Amazon as N457AZ.

Rami Mizrahi got good post-conversion photos of each on the ramp at IAI/Bedek. The ex-AA aircraft had what I would call the typical amount of sheet metal work done on the port side, a number of repairs here and there. What was remarkable was how little sheet metal work was done on the ex-LATAM aircraft. I had expected there to be a lot of repairs, in part because of how long the conversion took; I presumed that the delay was due to what they found in the heavy check, and it probably was, but whatever needed work, it wasn't the exterior skin. At least on the side that was photographed.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:56 pm

I heard that Sun Country is starting to do some Amazon flights. It looks like they have started flights from MSP to ONT/AFW.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:23 pm

SY is flying TPA-CVG-TPA, TPA-SJU-TPA Also. they have 3 more cargo jets at PAE getting checks before they join the fleet. In all they plan on 10 737-800F
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:53 pm

Just noticed today that Amazon had a small run of AKE containers manufactured back in March. Prior to this, they had been using all DQFs (a mix of AMZ-owned and leased cans from ACL Airshop) for belly loading. Will have to keep an eye out to see if they get more.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:03 am

Harvestman wrote:
Just noticed today that Amazon had a small run of AKE containers manufactured back in March. Prior to this, they had been using all DQFs (a mix of AMZ-owned and leased cans from ACL Airshop) for belly loading. Will have to keep an eye out to see if they get more.


Great observation!

Okay, so an AKE will fit in the belly of a 767, but is non-optimal. The DQFs that they have been using are full-width containers optimized for the 767 (and 787).

What an AKE is optimal for is a 777 (among other aircraft, like A300 and A330).

Now it could be that for some reason they're trying out something that isn't a full-width container, and we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions, but...

Let the speculation begin!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:26 pm

N308CM and N379AA are on their way home to the US following conversion. They are going TLV-SNN first. N308CM is on that leg; N379AA ran it a little earlier today and is now at SNN (6/2/20). Maybe a double crew took N392AN over nonstop, and then split to bring back the two aircraft with a stop at SNN? (Or maybe it's totally-different pilots, but what I'm suggesting kind of makes sense.)
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:09 pm

maybe the AKE's are for stations where they may be more likely to use FedEx/UPS for overflow? Have the cans ready to build and truck over to one of the other carriers? Seems kinda cart-before horse to place an order for a batch of cans you can't use for a while if you are planning on adding a fleet type.
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:34 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
maybe the AKE's are for stations where they may be more likely to use FedEx/UPS for overflow? Have the cans ready to build and truck over to one of the other carriers? Seems kinda cart-before horse to place an order for a batch of cans you can't use for a while if you are planning on adding a fleet type.

It wouldn't be the first time Amazon has done this though - a couple of years ago, they ordered about 10 LAY cans before any 737s were on the roster. Those cans floated around for a while since they wouldn't load them on the 767s. Of course there are a lot more LAYs now that the 737s are active.
 
darloscott
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:06 pm

I believe the Amazon Europe network expanded even further this week.
ASL operated ABR751/752 this morning - it ran from East Midlands to Belfast & return, operated by an ATR72, which would be the smallest aircraft operated on the network so far? EI-SOA had the honour of working the first one.
This was certainly a planned addition to the network, similar to SEN-BCN a few weeks ago. I understand further routes are expected.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
maybe the AKE's are for stations where they may be more likely to use FedEx/UPS for overflow? Have the cans ready to build and truck over to one of the other carriers? Seems kinda cart-before horse to place an order for a batch of cans you can't use for a while if you are planning on adding a fleet type.

Any Amazon that flies on 5X is sorted and containerized by a UPS hub/gateway/center. Whoever builds the container would need to be in compliance with the company’s rules and regulations. Probably not worth it for the occasional container..

Amazon knows how much they can cram into each container or trailer exactly. It’s almost magical. Any overflow above the flight limit would go into the UPS/USPS lane they can still make service on.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:13 am

379AA and 308CM are, interestingly, going to fly from SNN not to CVG-then-ILN, but rather to TPA.

This actually makes sense, since AMES Tampa (fka PEMCO) has to have taken a significant hit in its induction and maintenance operation, which is generally very-busy with its comprehensive contract for Frontier Airlines. Meanwhile, AMES in ILN is busy with its work on the CAM fleet and others, including the UPS cockpit upgrades. Tampa does some work on 767s, and presumably will now do more.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:20 am

This is one of those wanderings in how other carriers are handling the "coronavirus peak"

My mother ordered some items from Joann Fabrics. They shipped the item on May 7th via FedEx Ground. Per the return address it came out of 4801 Ulmerton Rd in Clearwater, FL. This location is clearly a fulfillment center and not a retail store. The first scan FedEx Ground has on the package is on May 29th, and it was delivered in Ocala, FL on May 30th. The package sat presumably on a trailer for 22 days before FedEx Ground moved the package. My mother contacted both FedEx and Joann and neither of them were helpful on the matter. American Express on the other hand was much more helpful. I'd be curious if FedEx missed a whole Joann trailer, or somehow just managed to leave my mother's package behind in a trailer.

I'm still really amazed that FedEx corporate allows Ground to operate so sloppily. Pulling it back to Amazon, it doesn't surprise me one bit that Amazon is very skeptical about FedEx Ground's service, and will cut them out of their supply chain when necessary.
 
HPRamper
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:48 pm

USAirKid wrote:
This is one of those wanderings in how other carriers are handling the "coronavirus peak"

My mother ordered some items from Joann Fabrics. They shipped the item on May 7th via FedEx Ground. Per the return address it came out of 4801 Ulmerton Rd in Clearwater, FL. This location is clearly a fulfillment center and not a retail store. The first scan FedEx Ground has on the package is on May 29th, and it was delivered in Ocala, FL on May 30th. The package sat presumably on a trailer for 22 days before FedEx Ground moved the package. My mother contacted both FedEx and Joann and neither of them were helpful on the matter. American Express on the other hand was much more helpful. I'd be curious if FedEx missed a whole Joann trailer, or somehow just managed to leave my mother's package behind in a trailer.

I'm still really amazed that FedEx corporate allows Ground to operate so sloppily. Pulling it back to Amazon, it doesn't surprise me one bit that Amazon is very skeptical about FedEx Ground's service, and will cut them out of their supply chain when necessary.

Is Amazon still sending anything to Ground? I was under the impression that partnership ended last year.

Ground is not really good at any one thing, other than having low overhead. They bristle over being looked at as the redheaded stepchild of FedEx, but they earn it time and time again. FX Corp sadly keeps pushing more and more volume away from Express and into the arms of Ground where presumably they will lose plenty of those customers due to poor service, to the gain of UPS and Amazon.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:58 pm

Amazon allows all Marketplace merchants who do their own shipping to use Ground. They also allow certain Marketplace merchants who do their own shipping to call the shipping component "Prime" if those merchants meet certain criteria and get certified to do so. (A relatively small percentage do that, but a small percentage of anything at Amazon is still huge.)

So Amazon doesn't use FedEx at all. However, Marketplace sellers do. If they're not calling their shipping product "Prime", Amazon doesn't specify who they can use. In the last Peak, however, Ground was massively screwing-up in some regions, to the point that Amazon forbade Marketplace sellers who were Prime-certified from using FedEx Ground. They could use it if they weren't calling their shipping "Prime", but otherwise no.

Not understanding this, the media went looking for some pernicious motive (remember, they've turned on Amazon because they sell groceries and are non-union, just as they did Walmart). So they decided, upon no evidence whatsoever, that Amazon was "punishing" FedEx because FedEx stopped servicing Amazon. And there were a bunch of stories about that. Of course, this was completely-wrong. Amazon constantly monitors shipping channel speed and reliability, and FedEx Ground had become unreliable (which Walmart and Target both found as well). As it said it would, Amazon withdrew the ban when FedEx got its operation back running fluidly.
 
FloridaMark
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:03 pm

wjcandee wrote:
379AA and 308CM are, interestingly, going to fly from SNN not to CVG-then-ILN, but rather to TPA.

This actually makes sense, since AMES Tampa (fka PEMCO) has to have taken a significant hit in its induction and maintenance operation, which is generally very-busy with its comprehensive contract for Frontier Airlines. Meanwhile, AMES in ILN is busy with its work on the CAM fleet and others, including the UPS cockpit upgrades. Tampa does some work on 767s, and presumably will now do more.


Just so happens that N308CM arrived at TPA from SNN about 30 minutes ago and will be at Airborne for finishing as UPS N395UP.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:19 pm

A puzzle, as Amazon steel rollers over other on line sellers competition will arise. It seems logical that Fed Ex's counter to Amazon would be offering other sellers primo ground and flying service. They would not have to bulk up quantity nor ramp up speed all at once. Just ensure that scheduled deliveries happen on or close to promised dates.
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n92r03
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:51 pm

USAirKid wrote:
They shipped the item on May 7th via FedEx Ground. Per the return address it came out of 4801 Ulmerton Rd in Clearwater, FL. This location is clearly a fulfillment center and not a retail store. .


That is the old Eva-Tone building. For years they "printed" CD's. If memory serves, there was a promotion on the late 80's or early 90's and a special CD was printed for a band (Rolling Stones, U2, or??) that had some type of monetary reward, like $100k or maybe $1m. I remember as there was big time security involved and a police escort.

Fast forward to today and just checked N308CM on FlightAware, landed TPA this afternoon from SNN and the pic on FlightAware shows the cargo door modification, no paint yet.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:14 pm

Also, I was wondering, is anyone here still getting Amazon shipments from smaller shipping companies such as OnTrac or LaserShip? I haven't gotten an Amazon shipment via OnTrac in over a year now. I know in the West Valley in the Phoenix area at one point they were the #2 carrier behind AMZL; here in the East Valley they were less common but now seem to be non-existent for Amazon shipments. It was stated in a news article that OnTrac has largely shifted most of its volume away from Amazon in favor of higher margin customers, but I wonder if anyone here still gets the occasional OnTrac shipment from Amazon.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:18 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
Also, I was wondering, is anyone here still getting Amazon shipments from smaller shipping companies such as OnTrac or LaserShip? I haven't gotten an Amazon shipment via OnTrac in over a year now. I know in the West Valley in the Phoenix area at one point they were the #2 carrier behind AMZL; here in the East Valley they were less common but now seem to be non-existent for Amazon shipments. It was stated in a news article that OnTrac has largely shifted most of its volume away from Amazon in favor of higher margin customers, but I wonder if anyone here still gets the occasional OnTrac shipment from Amazon.


Out here in podunk mountain town land, we went from USPS/UPS to the addition of random personal vehicles (amazon uniforms on drivers) to now either Amazon Ram Vans or occasional UPS/USPS support.

UPS on the other hand showed up with a temp worker in an old Ford Ranger doing supplemental Ground deliveries.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:12 pm

Amazon is adding another dozen 767-300s, to be leased from ATSG.

https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-rele ... raft-fleet

I'm actually a little confused by the press release, because there were 5 already to be delivered this year. To say that one of the new 12 joined the fleet in May, with 11 more in 2021, means that they're counting N443AZ, which entered service on 5/31/20, as one of the new 12. I will have to go back and do the math; maybe I screwed up. Last year, they announced 5 to be delivered in 2019 and 5 to be delivered in 2020. Then they changed it to be 6 in 2019 and 4 in 2020. I thought they only got the 5 done in 2019, leaving 5 for 2020. They have already designated 5 for this year, including 443AZ. The others are 449AZ, 431AZ, 379AA (to be 457AZ), and 433AZ,

All I can think is that they did get 6 last year and I just didn't count correctly, so there was an extra one this year, leaving 11 of the 12 in the new contract for next year. Or the press release is wrong.
Last edited by wjcandee on Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
BlueLineORD
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:15 pm

Today Amazon announced the acquisition of 12 more leased 767-300 aircraft (ATSG conversions) adding to the previously announced fleet of 70 767s + 737s. Also confirmed the launch of operations at AUS and SJU in May as well as previously announced plans to launch regional hubs at SBD and LAL and the central hub at CVG. Perhaps some of the recently accelerated pax 767 retirements due to COVID (AA, AC) will find new life as freighters.

Press release: https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-rele ... raft-fleet
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:21 pm

BlueLineORD wrote:
Perhaps some of the recently accelerated pax 767 retirements due to COVID (AA, AC) will find new life as freighters.


ATSG (CAM), which also owns ATI and ABX Air, already has purchase rights to all of the retired AA 767-300s. Bought them last year sometime.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:34 pm

wjcandee wrote:
BlueLineORD wrote:
Perhaps some of the recently accelerated pax 767 retirements due to COVID (AA, AC) will find new life as freighters.


ATSG (CAM), which also owns ATI and ABX Air, already has purchase rights to all of the retired AA 767-300s. Bought them last year sometime.


I imagine only some of those are part of this 12 - just based on timeline for conversion as all 12 will be delivered by EOY 2021. Or, are all 12 previously accounted for in conversion schedules?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:40 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Amazon is adding another dozen 767-300s, to be leased from ATSG.

https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-rele ... raft-fleet

I'm actually a little confused by the press release, because there were 5 already to be delivered this year. To say that one of the new 12 joined the fleet in May, with 11 more in 2021, means that they're counting N443AZ, which entered service on 5/31/20, as one of the new 12. I will have to go back and do the math; maybe I screwed up. Last year, they announced 5 to be delivered in 2019 and 5 to be delivered in 2020. Then they changed it to be 6 in 2019 and 4 in 2020. I thought they only got the 5 done in 2019, leaving 5 for 2020. They have already designated 5 for this year, including 443AZ. The others are 449AZ, 431AZ, 379AA (to be 457AZ), and 433AZ,

All I can think is that they did get 6 last year and I just didn't count correctly, so there was an extra one this year, leaving 11 of the 12 in the new contract for next year. Or the press release is wrong.


Could be an accounting thing. One of the new contract already delivered, while still some outstanding on the previous contract.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:03 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Amazon is adding another dozen 767-300s, to be leased from ATSG.

https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-rele ... raft-fleet

I'm actually a little confused by the press release, because there were 5 already to be delivered this year. To say that one of the new 12 joined the fleet in May, with 11 more in 2021, means that they're counting N443AZ, which entered service on 5/31/20, as one of the new 12. I will have to go back and do the math; maybe I screwed up. Last year, they announced 5 to be delivered in 2019 and 5 to be delivered in 2020. Then they changed it to be 6 in 2019 and 4 in 2020. I thought they only got the 5 done in 2019, leaving 5 for 2020. They have already designated 5 for this year, including 443AZ. The others are 449AZ, 431AZ, 379AA (to be 457AZ), and 433AZ,

All I can think is that they did get 6 last year and I just didn't count correctly, so there was an extra one this year, leaving 11 of the 12 in the new contract for next year. Or the press release is wrong.


Could be an accounting thing. One of the new contract already delivered, while still some outstanding on the previous contract.


Yep. I'm the one that was wrong.

N409AZ was the sixth from last year. It kind of made it (back from conversion in 2019) but kind of didn't (in service in 2020). So I was thinking they needed five this year. And when I counted up the tail numbers that I mentioned above, all of which are going into service in 2020, of which there are 5, I figured that that made up the contract. I forgot about 409AZ.

And if I had realized it sooner, I would have realized that they already had one more definitively-coming than was reflected in last year's contract for 10. And maybe then that something was afoot. But my inattention let a potential scoop go by!!

It IS interesting that they're calling 443AZ part of the new contract, when they still have 4 more coming after it under the old contract, but that, as you point out, is likely an accounting thing.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:41 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
BlueLineORD wrote:
Perhaps some of the recently accelerated pax 767 retirements due to COVID (AA, AC) will find new life as freighters.


ATSG (CAM), which also owns ATI and ABX Air, already has purchase rights to all of the retired AA 767-300s. Bought them last year sometime.


I imagine only some of those are part of this 12 - just based on timeline for conversion as all 12 will be delivered by EOY 2021. Or, are all 12 previously accounted for in conversion schedules?


After ATSG sent 392AN to TLV last week, that left 18 ex-AA 767s in the desert. To me, that's actually a surprisingly-small number. It's pretty-remarkable, but in the last 2-ish years, ATSG has converted at least 15 ex-AA 767-300s and leased them to a variety of customers, including some to Amazon. There are 4 ex-AA 767-300s owned by ATSG currently at TLV in line for conversion. So, of AA's fleet, ATSG has run at least 19 to or though TLV already. And there are 18 left.

Although ATSG has had rights on these ex-AA aircraft, and has been converting them for some time now, they have also injected aircraft from some other sources into the mix. For example, there are two ex-ANA Cargo BCFs, which will be 431AZ and 433AZ under this year's contract; they just need paint. Similarly, at ILN but unpainted there is 449AZ, which is ex-DL. There were 3 from Air NZ last year-ish. There are two from LATAM that just finished conversion and will be going to UPS on lease from ATSG. So it's not all ex-AA that's being converted, and it probably will continue to be not all ex-AA. But I think going forward a lot of them will be, especially now that they are all parked in the desert and nobody is wondering whether AA would choose to slow the retirement of some of them.

The aircraft that are going to Amazon this year under the old contract are now all converted and in the US, in various stages of conformity and repainting. So what is now in TLV is "extra".

Right now, there are six aircraft in conversion at TLV. There were eight until this week, when two were delivered to TPA via SNN for conformity and paint. One is going to go to Amazon around 9/1/20, and one is going to UPS. There is one more at TLV (N304CM), which is going to UPS. So there are 5 in the conversion line at TLV who don't have any publicly-identified lessees. Some or all might be planned to go to Amazon in 2021, or some or all might have anticipated lessees that are not Amazon. Eleven aircraft to be delivered in one year is a significant lift, so if the ones already in TLV are indeed going to Amazon, having five already in line at TLV means they only have six more to convert, and if they send one-per-month over there from now, which is a doable rate, they will all be done by mid-2021. More-likely some of the ones at TLV already are planned for non-Amazon lessees, like perhaps UPS or Amerijet, for example. I just don't have any public information on that.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:03 am

I just did a test with a particular item on Amazon (a button-down shirt), and they still show quite far out delivery dates even with Amazon Air to Puerto Rico. My grandfather's ZIP code shows a June 20 delivery date, while my aunt in the next ZIP code over shows a July 1 delivery date. I'm shocked by these long delivery dates and I'm surprised by the huge difference in delivery dates with neighboring ZIP codes. I know these two ZIP codes are served by different USPS DDUs, but why would it make such a huge difference? Perhaps my aunt's ZIP code has a much higher demand for orders.

Also, my grandfather is on a Highway Contract route, while my aunt has her mail delivered by actual USPS carriers.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:41 am

A ramp lead in SMF mentioned to me that ATI’s flights for Amazon out of there are carrying USPS mail. Did I miss something or has that been announced?
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:59 am

Also curious if I missed something...apparently Northern Air Cargo's N401YK is running CVG-ELP for DHL. I hadn't heard about another operator coming into the mix apart from Swift Air.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:18 am

GoodRide wrote:
A ramp lead in SMF mentioned to me that ATI’s flights for Amazon out of there are carrying USPS mail. Did I miss something or has that been announced?


Hadn't heard about that. Are we sure that it's not Parcel Direct stuff, where Amazon packages are delivered in the last mile by the Postal Service? I would assume that a ramp lead would know about that.

Amazon pays the USPS a lot of money for last-mile. Maybe this is a chance to make some of that back on flights that have room? Remember that the mail is messed up big time right now because of several reasons, one of which is the lack of passenger flighs, so reduced belly space for mail. One of our contributors above indicates that FedEx is swamped with mail; not impossible that a short-term deal was made with Amazon on lanes that had room.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:47 am

Amerijet has been operating a flight in and out of SMF. It’s a PHL-SMF-PHL run. I heard they were doing USPS. Maybe the ramp lead was mistaken?


wjcandee wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
A ramp lead in SMF mentioned to me that ATI’s flights for Amazon out of there are carrying USPS mail. Did I miss something or has that been announced?


Hadn't heard about that. Are we sure that it's not Parcel Direct stuff, where Amazon packages are delivered in the last mile by the Postal Service? I would assume that a ramp lead would know about that.

Amazon pays the USPS a lot of money for last-mile. Maybe this is a chance to make some of that back on flights that have room? Remember that the mail is messed up big time right now because of several reasons, one of which is the lack of passenger flighs, so reduced belly space for mail. One of our contributors above indicates that FedEx is swamped with mail; not impossible that a short-term deal was made with Amazon on lanes that had room.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:48 am

autopiloton wrote:
Amerijet has been operating a flight in and out of SMF. It’s a PHL-SMF-PHL run. I heard they were doing USPS. Maybe the ramp lead was mistaken?


wjcandee wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
A ramp lead in SMF mentioned to me that ATI’s flights for Amazon out of there are carrying USPS mail. Did I miss something or has that been announced?


Hadn't heard about that. Are we sure that it's not Parcel Direct stuff, where Amazon packages are delivered in the last mile by the Postal Service? I would assume that a ramp lead would know about that.

Amazon pays the USPS a lot of money for last-mile. Maybe this is a chance to make some of that back on flights that have room? Remember that the mail is messed up big time right now because of several reasons, one of which is the lack of passenger flighs, so reduced belly space for mail. One of our contributors above indicates that FedEx is swamped with mail; not impossible that a short-term deal was made with Amazon on lanes that had room.



Huh. I thought that was a flight for UPS.
 
dcs921
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
autopiloton wrote:
Amerijet has been operating a flight in and out of SMF. It’s a PHL-SMF-PHL run. I heard they were doing USPS. Maybe the ramp lead was mistaken?


wjcandee wrote:

Hadn't heard about that. Are we sure that it's not Parcel Direct stuff, where Amazon packages are delivered in the last mile by the Postal Service? I would assume that a ramp lead would know about that.

Amazon pays the USPS a lot of money for last-mile. Maybe this is a chance to make some of that back on flights that have room? Remember that the mail is messed up big time right now because of several reasons, one of which is the lack of passenger flighs, so reduced belly space for mail. One of our contributors above indicates that FedEx is swamped with mail; not impossible that a short-term deal was made with Amazon on lanes that had room.



Huh. I thought that was a flight for UPS.


UPS doesn't have any facilities at SMF. It is odd that the flight parks on the UPS ramp in PHL.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:25 pm

autopiloton wrote:
Amerijet has been operating a flight in and out of SMF. It’s a PHL-SMF-PHL run. I heard they were doing USPS. Maybe the ramp lead was mistaken?


wjcandee wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
A ramp lead in SMF mentioned to me that ATI’s flights for Amazon out of there are carrying USPS mail. Did I miss something or has that been announced?


Hadn't heard about that. Are we sure that it's not Parcel Direct stuff, where Amazon packages are delivered in the last mile by the Postal Service? I would assume that a ramp lead would know about that.

Amazon pays the USPS a lot of money for last-mile. Maybe this is a chance to make some of that back on flights that have room? Remember that the mail is messed up big time right now because of several reasons, one of which is the lack of passenger flighs, so reduced belly space for mail. One of our contributors above indicates that FedEx is swamped with mail; not impossible that a short-term deal was made with Amazon on lanes that had room.


I’ll try to confirm exactly what he meant next time I go in there later this month.
 
nws2002
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:34 pm

Harvestman wrote:
Just noticed today that Amazon had a small run of AKE containers manufactured back in March. Prior to this, they had been using all DQFs (a mix of AMZ-owned and leased cans from ACL Airshop) for belly loading. Will have to keep an eye out to see if they get more.


Pretty sure the AKEs are for the aft-most main deck position on the 737s.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3190
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:34 pm

GoodRide wrote:
A ramp lead in SMF mentioned to me that ATI’s flights for Amazon out of there are carrying USPS mail. Did I miss something or has that been announced?


this has been going on for some time MIA-IAH. Generally 1 or 2 LD8's that are transferred airside in IAH.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 509
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:08 pm

WILMINGTON, Ohio -- June 4, 2020 -- Air Transport Services Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: ATSG), the leading provider of medium wide-body aircraft leasing, air transportation and related services, today announced an agreement to lease twelve additional Boeing 767-300 converted freighter aircraft to Amazon.com Services LLC. One of the twelve aircraft was delivered on May 29, 2020 and the remaining eleven will be delivered in 2021. All twelve will be leased to Amazon for ten years, with options for Amazon to extend the leases for three additional years.
https://www.atsginc.com/news-and-media/ ... /year/2020
 
williaminsd
Posts: 264
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:41 pm

Amazon Air called "2020's Transportation Juggernaut." Nice outline of operations for the rapidly growing Amazon subsidiary at link.

https://www.newgeography.com/content/00 ... juggernaut
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8803
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:15 pm

williaminsd wrote:
Amazon Air called "2020's Transportation Juggernaut." Nice outline of operations for the rapidly growing Amazon subsidiary at link.

https://www.newgeography.com/content/00 ... juggernaut


Thank you for sharing that article!! It is very interesting.

Indeed, it is a nice article for one written by folks who really don't know anything. Gets a lot wrong. E.g. being at DHL's hub provides truly-minimal ability to push stuff that won't fit on planes over to an integrator, because DHL doesn't do domestic. Dumb. And in any event, as one of our members pointed out, Amazon is nearly-omniscient in its ability to know absolutely-exactly-precisely what will fit in a truck or can, and therefore, by extension, plane. And if the authors had done a little research, they would have known that the primary reason there is so much bypass traffic past the CVG hub is that DHL's ability to sort the stuff was long-ago maxxed out. If Amazon wanted Air to grow, it had to bypass CVG until its own facility was built. The shape of the operation evolved because of that constraint. Also, Air wasn't originally an overnight operation, it was a two-day one, so it looks more like UPS and FedEx's 2-day operation; nothing weird about the timing of its flights at all, given its purpose.

This is a couple of grad students (or undergrads) doing some project for their article-author professor, and backing into information rather than just obtaining it. Their conclusion that Amazon "could" grow to 200 planes by X Date got a lot of headlines, but it appears to be based upon absolutely-nothing but conjecture. Amazon "could" go out of business. It "could" decide not to use air at all. It "could" determine that it now has sufficient air resources to balance against its efforts to keep most products within a day's drive of most destinations. There's no way for we mere mortals to know, just as we can't know how the competitive landscape for Amazon is going to evolve, and what damage to its business that media and certain politicians on both sides of the aisle, for different reasons, are going to wreak over the next few years. So 200 aircraft is a number not entirely out of thin air, but probably too-small or too-large by a big percentage, depending on the unknown future.

Of course, not everyone can have as comprehensive a picture of the Amazon operation as do we here at the Amazon Fleet Discussion -- 2020 Thread!! Really, these article-writers should just read the pages here first!!
 
FloridaMark
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:34 am

sunking737 wrote:
Clancy223 wrote:
Three more 738Fs coming on line later in the year for Atlas/Southern... N5227A, N5233A, N5237A


From Who?? SCX has 10 coming from GE


I did not see any other information on these, so I have done a little digging.FAA registry has the following: N5227A is currently registered to GECAS as N849DM c/n 32742 and was last indicated as WFU at CRK/RPLC as of 08 Nov 2018. N5233A is currently registered to GECAS as N204RH c/n 34029 and ferried HAK-TAD-TNA for F conversion on 09 March 2020. Finally, N5237A is currently registered to GECAS as N218RH c/n 32608 and ferried HAK-DAD-PVG for F conversion on 18/19 January 2020. If this info is already known, I apologize for the duplication. A massive internet search gives me no indication as to who will be the recipient of these 3 aircraft. Credit to Planespotters.net, FAA registry and Aerotransport Databank.org for getting the aircraft info.
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:40 am

sunking737 wrote:
SY is flying TPA-CVG-TPA, TPA-SJU-TPA Also. they have 3 more cargo jets at PAE getting checks before they join the fleet. In all they plan on 10 737-800F


Also running AFW-MSP and CVG-ONT-MSP triangle
 
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sunking737
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:46 am

Maybe they are getting more. IDK. SOO was having staffing issues. The reason Amazon approached Sun Country
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:19 am

sunking737 wrote:
Maybe they are getting more. IDK. SOO was having staffing issues. The reason Amazon approached Sun Country


Not only couldn't they staff it, they couldn't manage it either. And the pilots they could hire were often inexperienced and needed to build time in the right seat in order even minimally to qualify for the left seat, and the list of airports they could/would fly to was limited. It was a total goatrope; AAWW promised and didn't deliver. Southern was the obvious candidate provider, because Amazon already had a beneficial interest in AAWW, the parent of both Atlas and Southern. I'm not sure that being able to hire experienced pilots is going to change but a couple of the many problems in that organization.

It's possible that Southern will get the last five. It's possible that they won't.

I will say that Sunny stepped right up to the plate and it looks like the initial rollout is being done reliably and professionally, which one would expect.

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