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gsoflyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:03 pm

MO11 wrote:
Speaking of that, who does Aloha run a 737-300 for between GSO and ONT? Westbound AM, eastbound PM. Started at the beginning of the month.


Been wondering the same thing. ONT-GSO-ONT 4 days per week, ONT-GSO-TUL on Saturday. Been seeing if approach over my house all month.
 
twincommander
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:11 pm

sunking737 wrote:
My source stated that the Amazon planes run the same as the SY as far as MX goes. Not too many issues, But you are dealing with an airline that has been flying 737-800 since 2001. I think they know what to do and how to handle things that come up.


Exactly the same MX program. Only slight additional training needed showing the BCF features. The biggest deal MX wise has been the opening of stations where they haven't needed support before. The focus has been on those stations.

PDX service begins Wed the 24th with an AFW turn flight.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:43 pm

I saw somewhere that the 767's will move to LAL sometime in August, but it mentioned the 737's would remain at TPA for a bit, which doesn't make much sense, but just posting what I saw from an TPA ops/ground handler
 
AV8AJET
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:45 pm

Will Atlas grow their 767 fleet for Amazon anymore?
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:26 pm

MajMattMason wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
I don't know who it's running for, but ATI's 395CM is on an ILN-HNL-GUM-HKG-GUM-SYD-HKG-... run. I read on a fansite that the GUM-SYD-HKG portion, at least, is going to be twice weekly for over a month. Can't be for DHL, because of the ABX Scope rules, I think.


It’s for DHL.

ABX’s DHL “domestic 767 out of CVG scope clause” during their concession contract did not envision any other ATSG company but them doing international work for DHL I guess.

I’m curious now, what is this scope clause?
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:50 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
MajMattMason wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
I don't know who it's running for, but ATI's 395CM is on an ILN-HNL-GUM-HKG-GUM-SYD-HKG-... run. I read on a fansite that the GUM-SYD-HKG portion, at least, is going to be twice weekly for over a month. Can't be for DHL, because of the ABX Scope rules, I think.


It’s for DHL.

ABX’s DHL “domestic 767 out of CVG scope clause” during their concession contract did not envision any other ATSG company but them doing international work for DHL I guess.

I’m curious now, what is this scope clause?


There's a lot of debate at this point about what it is. There's nothing in the text of the body of the contract itself that's germane other than a restriction on transferring ABX aircraft to another ATSG-owned carrier where they will be used to service DHL. However, there's a side letter (which I haven't seen) which apparently addresses the issue of the CVG ramp and says something to the effect that, within ATSG, only ABX will operate 767s for DHL into/out-of CVG. There's some talk about it only applying to certain aircraft, for a certain time period, etc. There are a number of provisions in the contract that I would want to redraft for clarity because they're not crystal-clear (at least to me as a lawyer), and it sounds like this is one of them. Maybe it says domestic, maybe it doesn't. Regardless, this aircraft isn't ex-ABX, and the flight didn't start or end at CVG. But I think most of us familiar with that shop read most ABX pilots as believing they have a monopoly within ATSG on 767 service for DHL, without their approval, which they have sometimes given in a pinch (e.g. when one of ATI's 757s was down, or Peak, and DHL wanted to sub in, say, 255CM)

I'm curious whether this was a price thing or an availability thing or a do-we-have-people-to-do-it thing, or some of each. ABX has some slack in the fleet right now, but they also have N363CM out of service since 3/1/20, first at GSO and now at ILN, and N364CM out of service at GSO since 5/24/20, which may have been enough to make this retention non-feasible. OTOH, ATI only has 2 767-300s that are not dry-leased by Amazon, and one of them is being used for this, so that's a lot of trust in the aircraft running reliably.

Back when DHL was the lifeblood of the company, this was probably worth fighting about. Now that DHL shows its antipathy to all of ATSG by continuing to take routes away from them and now to give them to the likes of Cargojet and Amerijet, it's a moribund business and ABX ought to be shaking the trees like Amerijet is and finding new sources of income.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:09 pm

AV8AJET wrote:
Will Atlas grow their 767 fleet for Amazon anymore?


That's up to Amazon. Now that there is, for the moment, a surplus of pilots out there, Atlas shouldn't continue to have the kind of staffing/quality issues that it had that led to Amazon shifting two Atlas-operated aircraft to ATI. Of course, these dry-leases are a 10-year commitment from Amazon, and air travel should be back in expansion mode within a couple of years, unless the current drama in America causes it to take steps that would further damage its economy in general or air travel in particular. But even with new pilots coming aboard, Atlas still has horrible labor relations, so we'll see what Amazon does. The next big test will be whether Southern gets any more 737-800 freighters to fly; my gut says they will, just to keep spreading them around. If Sunny really kills it, maybe minds can be changed about that. Hey, maybe we'll see some DC10Fs in the mix in the future!


(Completely just kidding with the last comment; it's a Sun Country reference re back in the day.)
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:32 am

wjcandee wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
MajMattMason wrote:

It’s for DHL.

ABX’s DHL “domestic 767 out of CVG scope clause” during their concession contract did not envision any other ATSG company but them doing international work for DHL I guess.

I’m curious now, what is this scope clause?


There's a lot of debate at this point about what it is. There's nothing in the text of the body of the contract itself that's germane other than a restriction on transferring ABX aircraft to another ATSG-owned carrier where they will be used to service DHL. However, there's a side letter (which I haven't seen) which apparently addresses the issue of the CVG ramp and says something to the effect that, within ATSG, only ABX will operate 767s for DHL into/out-of CVG. There's some talk about it only applying to certain aircraft, for a certain time period, etc. There are a number of provisions in the contract that I would want to redraft for clarity because they're not crystal-clear (at least to me as a lawyer), and it sounds like this is one of them. Maybe it says domestic, maybe it doesn't. Regardless, this aircraft isn't ex-ABX, and the flight didn't start or end at CVG. But I think most of us familiar with that shop read most ABX pilots as believing they have a monopoly within ATSG on 767 service for DHL, without their approval, which they have sometimes given in a pinch (e.g. when one of ATI's 757s was down, or Peak, and DHL wanted to sub in, say, 255CM)

I'm curious whether this was a price thing or an availability thing or a do-we-have-people-to-do-it thing, or some of each. ABX has some slack in the fleet right now, but they also have N363CM out of service since 3/1/20, first at GSO and now at ILN, and N364CM out of service at GSO since 5/24/20, which may have been enough to make this retention non-feasible. OTOH, ATI only has 2 767-300s that are not dry-leased by Amazon, and one of them is being used for this, so that's a lot of trust in the aircraft running reliably.

Back when DHL was the lifeblood of the company, this was probably worth fighting about. Now that DHL shows its antipathy to all of ATSG by continuing to take routes away from them and now to give them to the likes of Cargojet and Amerijet, it's a moribund business and ABX ought to be shaking the trees like Amerijet is and finding new sources of income.

Very interesting, I’d love to know what was traded to get that agreed to.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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Harvestman
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:19 am

Interesting to see ATI operating a 767 for DHL. To my knowledge, the only aircraft they operated for them were their three 757s (N531UA, N605DL and N620DL, of which the latter two seem to be retired). Always found it unusual how small that operation was given the size of their AMZ operation.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:17 pm

Don't forgt 557CM. All were flying until a month ago. DHL pulled the 757s in the US. They're moving to 737-800s. Those 4 aircraft weren't a small operation when ATI had basically them and the 4 military combis and little else.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:14 pm

Today, 6/19/20, N7919A, formerly N451CC, moved from induction at PAE to MSP as a Sun Country Flight. That's number 6 in service in a little over a month.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:35 pm

I was told 7 by end of June. I checked the SY fleet list, it now shows 39 planes, including the VIP jet, the pax jets and the Amazon planes. wow
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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gsoflyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:26 pm

MO11 wrote:
Speaking of that, who does Aloha run a 737-300 for between GSO and ONT? Westbound AM, eastbound PM. Started at the beginning of the month.


So I was by the airport Friday and Saturday as I work nearby, The Aloha Airlines flight parks at the Cargo Facility by the Alaska Air storage, which is the open area of the Cargo ramp that Fedex used to use (it goes Samaritans Purse then taxiway, Delta Cargo, UPS, DHL and then open area). From a distance, there were amazon trucks on the land cargo side of the building.

So, is this to feed the Amazon Fulfillment Center and Delivery Station in Kernersville?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:02 pm

Well, the aircraft, N301KH is one of four 737-300s that Aloha operates. It flew to the US from Hawaii on 5/29/20 and started the ONT-GSO-ONT turns on 6/2. We know that Aloha is owned by Saltchuk, which owns Northern Air Cargo and other transportation businesses. We know that Aloha's shipping point in the US is LAX, not ONT. We know that the head of Saltchuk is a friend/acquaintance of Jeff Bezos (Seattle connection), and that Northern Air Cargo ran the aircraft for Project Alpha, which took place at the same time as Project Aerosmith, and tested the cost, utility, etc., of the 737NG as a possible network aircraft for Amazon, and then wasn't taken up. (Aerosmith -- the 767s -- was.)

However, I can't imagine that this is more than some kind of track charter for somebody. And I don't see why it would per-se be for Amazon. They are bringing aboard 737-800s into their Southern/Sun-County network at a rapid place, and they're not exactly running at a breakneck utilization level at the moment. But one never knows. I do know that before they started their own RIV/ONT-HNL flights on GTI, the Aloha flight from LAX often contained quite a bit of Amazon -- being shipped by other vendors for them. Perhaps there is some Amazon moving on this flight as well, but it doesn't explain the Amazon trucks at the airport.

I'm guessing it's mail, but we'll see.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 am

N7919A started flying some routes today (6/21/20) from/to MSP. As noted above, this is the 6th 737-800BCF running for Amazon by Sun Country.

And N448CC, number 7, which is at PAE for conformity, will be renumbered N7901A, if nobody had mentioned that yet.

As to whether number 7 will be in service by 6/30/20, it might be, or it might be a couple of days later. It arrived at PAE for conformity on 6/8. It has been taking AAR about 24-25 days for conformity on the last few, so they might get it out the door before the 30th, or it might be a 2-3 days after that. But no reason it couldn't be in service at least around then.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:53 pm

CAM took possession of N388AA yesterday.
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:48 pm

Kalitta II has a LinkedIn entry showing a picture of them operating a 737-400SF for DHL. That aircraft (N311GT) is listed as being at Southern. Is this another example of aircraft being pulled by partners away from Atlas/Southern and given to other operators?
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:01 pm

enplaned wrote:
Kalitta II has a LinkedIn entry showing a picture of them operating a 737-400SF for DHL. That aircraft (N311GT) is listed as being at Southern. Is this another example of aircraft being pulled by partners away from Atlas/Southern and given to other operators?


That airplane was transferred on June 17. All of the 737-400s will be leaving Southern.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:26 pm

MO11 wrote:
enplaned wrote:
Kalitta II has a LinkedIn entry showing a picture of them operating a 737-400SF for DHL. That aircraft (N311GT) is listed as being at Southern. Is this another example of aircraft being pulled by partners away from Atlas/Southern and given to other operators?


That airplane was transferred on June 17. All of the 737-400s will be leaving Southern.


What he said. (Because he knows.)

DHL owns the plane. It has been at YIP for a couple of weeks, presumably in conformity, which I guess was completed if it has now transferred over to KII.
 
catdaddy63
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:25 pm

 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:24 pm

N440CC leased to Amazon yesterday.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:58 pm

N440CC will become.N5479A @SCX. Gives them 7 out of 10. Only one more 737-800F left to come over from China for the first group of 10. I heard a rumor SCX was going to get more. Can't confirm yet.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:56 pm

Just as an update, where I live, anything that ships by ground in a fulfillment center nearby currently seems to have little to no delay in fulfillment. However, if air shipment is required, that is where the fulfillment delays seem to come into play. I wonder if it is due to capacity constraints on Amazon Air. I haven't gotten a UPS air shipment from Amazon in a while now; apparently they are trying to use Amazon Air whenever possible. UPS Ground seems to be mainly long-distance ORM-D packages.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:27 pm

I think we should see N449AZ (formerly N153DL, originally delivered to Gulf Air on 8 Nov 1990) go into service for Amazon any day now. It has been back to ILN from paint for more than two weeks. And we should see N431AZ (ex-ANA Cargo BCF) go off to receive Prime Air livery shortly, with an anticipated in-service date of 8/1.

Looks like ATI's N395CM, which has been running those HKG-GUM-SYD-HKG rotations, had a turnback to Darwin, Australia as it passed over the Arafura Sea between Australia and Indonesia on its way north from SYD last night. Been running pretty-reliably so far prior to that.

I think we're gonna see N395AN head over to conversion in TLV shortly from ILN, and maybe N304CM will come back at that point. The latter is going to UPS and has been at TLV since 7/14/19, amazingly-enough.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm

Is there a current list of ATSG birds that are in TLV for conversion work?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:48 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Is there a current list of ATSG birds that are in TLV for conversion work?


Sure!

N304CM since 7/14/19 formerly CC-CZT, to be N393UP.
N384AA since 2/2/20
N381AN since 2/7/20
N394AN since 3/29/20
N544LA since 4/11/20
N392AN since 5/31/20

Likely next: N395AN

Then: N385AM, purchased 3/11/20,
and N388AA purchased 6/22/20.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:02 pm

Looks like BDL is a Southern station as well now. ONT-BDL-CVG which was an Atlas 767 has been downsized to a Southern 737 the last few days.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:38 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Looks like BDL is a Southern station as well now. ONT-BDL-CVG which was an Atlas 767 has been downsized to a Southern 737 the last few days.


That's an interesting observation. A long leg compared to what the 737s have generally been running, I think. Not exclusively, but not the common run.

On another note, when I mentioned the N395CM turnback to Darwin last night over the sea between Australia and Indonesia, which I assumed was a mechanical, I noticed an interesting routing when the aircraft finally took off again. Bottom line, it flew East across Australia until it was south of Papua New Guinea, then flew North across that country until it was way north of the most-north parts of Indonesia, then flew Northwest on a heading across the Phillipines directly to HKG. It basically flew around Indonesia, after having flown across it for weeks. Just found that interesting, and curious. Suggests that for some reason it may have been told last night to exit Indonesian airspace. Now that would be an interesting pilot story.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:00 am

There was a clerical issue of sorts on the Chinese side. Seems that the issue is resolved now.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:06 am

GoodRide wrote:
There was a clerical issue of sorts on the Chinese side. Seems that the issue is resolved now.


Thanks! Interesting. Curious why they would have to bypass Indonesia, though.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:19 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Looks like BDL is a Southern station as well now. ONT-BDL-CVG which was an Atlas 767 has been downsized to a Southern 737 the last few days.

CVG-ONT-BDL-CVG is a Southern 737 run. A 767 was subbed a few days last week because a 737 was in MX.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:59 pm

Clancy223 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Looks like BDL is a Southern station as well now. ONT-BDL-CVG which was an Atlas 767 has been downsized to a Southern 737 the last few days.

CVG-ONT-BDL-CVG is a Southern 737 run. A 767 was subbed a few days last week because a 737 was in MX.

Has to be a fairly recent thing, been a 767 for a long time
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:02 pm

Amazon leased N447CC yesterday.
 
Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:24 pm

Amazon opened Richmond Va station using the 737F this week
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:40 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Clancy223 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Looks like BDL is a Southern station as well now. ONT-BDL-CVG which was an Atlas 767 has been downsized to a Southern 737 the last few days.

CVG-ONT-BDL-CVG is a Southern 737 run. A 767 was subbed a few days last week because a 737 was in MX.

Has to be a fairly recent thing, been a 767 for a long time

Was an ABX route that was moved to Atlas.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:41 pm

MO11 wrote:
Amazon leased N447CC yesterday.


Will become N7933A the # 9 Amazon Prime jet for Sun Country
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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B350pilot
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:21 am

Jumping in here late guys. Anyone care to speculate on the what the following companies will look like in say, 2 years ?

Atlas Air
ATI
Southern

Fleet growth/changes? New models? Route map changes? Etc? I think COVID's impact, the work from home model, and other stuff will cause freight and E-commerce to explode.

Thank you
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 am

In their ongoing quest to bring more deliveries in-house, Amazon is opening a delivery center in Fort Wayne, Indiana this fall. Coded by Amazon as DIN6 (Delivery Center - Indiana - 6), DIN6 has been confirmed by Amazon and is located basically next door to FWA. Amazon is leasing the DIN6 building from Great Lakes Capital and the City of Fort Wayne itself.

Also planned by Amazon, if you search their Delivery Service Partner application, delivery centers in Huntertown, Indiana (far north Allen County, about 30 minutes from DIN6) and Evansville are in the works. Currently, 3 centers serve greater Indianapolis, 1 center in Gary serves northwest Indiana, and 1 center in South Bend near SBN serves the Michiana region.

Could FWA be a future Amazon Air city? Possibly with a 738F?
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:38 am

FWAERJ wrote:
In their ongoing quest to bring more deliveries in-house, Amazon is opening a delivery center in Fort Wayne, Indiana this fall. Coded by Amazon as DIN6 (Delivery Center - Indiana - 6), DIN6 has been confirmed by Amazon and is located basically next door to FWA. Amazon is leasing the DIN6 building from Great Lakes Capital and the City of Fort Wayne itself.

Also planned by Amazon, if you search their Delivery Service Partner application, delivery centers in Huntertown, Indiana (far north Allen County, about 30 minutes from DIN6) and Evansville are in the works. Currently, 3 centers serve greater Indianapolis, 1 center in Gary serves northwest Indiana, and 1 center in South Bend near SBN serves the Michiana region.

Could FWA be a future Amazon Air city? Possibly with a 738F?


Albuquerque is also listed on the Delivery Service Partners website. Last year Amazon posted a job position about a Delivery Station opening in Albuquerque, and this year Amazon announced they will be opening a new fulfillment center on the far west side of Albuquerque. Some have actually mentioned AEG (Double Eagle II) as a potential Amazon Air destination; I just don't know if it has the infrastructure to handle such an operation.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:43 am

B350pilot: ATSG will add 15 newly-converted 767-300s by the end of 2021. 11 from the new order of 12, and 4 left on the current order. Will they all be flown by ATI? The remaining 4 coming this year on the current order almost certainly will be. As to the 10 next year? Ten is a lot. I don't think there's any reason for Amazon to look for a new operator, although Northern and Amerijet (both 767 operators, indeed both operators of jets leased from ATSG) would doubtless love to have some of that business.

If Atlas can keep staffing its 767s, presumably it will keep the Amazon flying that it has, but I don't see any reason for Atlas to pick up more at the moment. [It would make a certain amount of sense that if Amazon anticipated putting any of the 12 at Atlas, they would let Atlas handle the leasing/conversion part of the transaction as well; OTOH, ATSG owns 3 ex-AA 767-300s that haven't been sent for conversion yet, and 6 767-300s currently in conversion at TLV, and has the right to buy ALL of the remaining retired AA 767-300s (which currently number 15), so if you lease from ATSG, they already have a dedicated supply of identical, well-maintained feedstock.]

Never say never, though. I'm sure Atlas is out there every day trying to figure out how to get themselves more Amazon business. Hopefully, Amazon will be thrice-burned, thrice-shy. "No really this time we'll be able to staff it with competent people who don't strike during Peak!! Really!! And we're pretty-sure that they won't take out ads this year saying that the "pilots who fly for Amazon" are "tired" so Bobby won't get his fire truck for Christmas. Promise!!"

That leaves open the possibility that ABX, the other ATSG freight carrier, will get some of the 11 767s for next year, or perhaps they all will go to ATI. Maybe it hasn't even been decided yet.

Southern is still a goatrope, even if DHL is taking away its 737-400 flying and giving it to Kalitta II, thus leaving it with more pilot capacity. Amazon seems to reward competence, and the Sun Country rollout of nearly 10 Amazon 737-800s in record time seems to position it well for future 737-800 flying for Amazon. That said, there are rumors at Southern that they will be getting 5 more.
 
jreeves96
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:57 am

B350pilot wrote:
Jumping in here late guys. Anyone care to speculate on the what the following companies will look like in say, 2 years ?

Atlas Air
ATI
Southern

Fleet growth/changes? New models? Route map changes? Etc? I think COVID's impact, the work from home model, and other stuff will cause freight and E-commerce to explode.

Thank you


Let me first say that my opinion is completely just that. An opinion. So do not quote me on anything. This is just speculation from what I know about Atlas/Southern.

I personally believe Atlas will get rid of the BCFs and SFs. Loadmasters hate them. The FAA have screwed those planes up. They were supposed to be scrapped but brought back DURING the pandemic. I see them being retired for good after peak season. I do see Atlas picking up more second hand true freighters whenever they become, or if, available. Personally, I would like to see the Polar 744s being transferred to full time Atlas and them placing a last second order for more 748s, if Boeing is still taking more orders. I don't see Atlas getting any mainline -8Fs besides what they have now unless they can get a deal with Boeing.

My far fetched dream for Atlas is to get a few 777s running around. I'm primarily 744, but I got the chance to work the 777 on a few flights and loved it. But American Airlines is more likely to add IFE screens.

767, 737 will grow. Amazon wants a ton, Atlas will make it happen.

Southern picked up a former Emirates 777F. I can see them getting more second hand 777s and possibly another order by DHL.

Again, entirely speculation and 100% my opinion.

Meh, second thoughts, shoulda kept it Amazon related. Can't delete. Just soak in my throw up of opinions.
 
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sunking737
Posts: 1606
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:47 am

I am still trying to confirm that Sun Country will get more -800F. There was a posting last Sunday night about Sun Country and their COO, at a industry conference, since been deleted, that cargo was going to have an upswing starting in Sept. /Oct of this year. Fingers crossed.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8785
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:58 am

jreeves96 wrote:
Meh, second thoughts, shoulda kept it Amazon related. Can't delete. Just soak in my throw up of opinions.


Actually, I really am glad you posted what you did. Everything you say makes complete sense. I do think that Kalitta is hammering on DHL to send more 777s its way, but there's no reason that Atlas/Southern, if it put its mind to getting its labor situation in order, couldn't compete hard for those. I also think that it's great that Atlas has been able to get a little-more use from its 747 fleet during the pandemic, but I agree that this business likely will dramatically-reduce over the next year, if not sooner.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3353
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:00 am

FWAERJ wrote:
In their ongoing quest to bring more deliveries in-house, Amazon is opening a delivery center in Fort Wayne, Indiana this fall. Coded by Amazon as DIN6 (Delivery Center - Indiana - 6), DIN6 has been confirmed by Amazon and is located basically next door to FWA. Amazon is leasing the DIN6 building from Great Lakes Capital and the City of Fort Wayne itself.

Also planned by Amazon, if you search their Delivery Service Partner application, delivery centers in Huntertown, Indiana (far north Allen County, about 30 minutes from DIN6) and Evansville are in the works. Currently, 3 centers serve greater Indianapolis, 1 center in Gary serves northwest Indiana, and 1 center in South Bend near SBN serves the Michiana region.

Could FWA be a future Amazon Air city? Possibly with a 738F?


Unlikely. Generally speaking, anything 4 hours or less from a sort facility doesn't get air service (in terms of US cargo, not specific to Amazon), unless it's a major city. I just don't see FWA getting Amazon flying.
From my cold, dead hands
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8785
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:05 am

FWAERJ: I would say, "Never say never." DiamondFlyer correctly lays out the usual standards, but Amazon has made some interesting calls along the way... The airport location could just be because it has excellent road access, or it could be something else.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8785
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:08 am

Clancy223 wrote:
Was an ABX route that was moved to Atlas.


Which means that it went from a 762 to a 763 and now to a 738. Very interesting!
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 4647
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:28 pm

wjcandee wrote:
FWAERJ: I would say, "Never say never." DiamondFlyer correctly lays out the usual standards, but Amazon has made some interesting calls along the way... The airport location could just be because it has excellent road access, or it could be something else.


I’d bet against it for at least the immediate future. Amazon opened a DC at the airport here in Colorado Springs but it’s more because there was a building available than of the possibility of adding a flight. Traffic getting to Denver is bad, but not THAT bad to just piggyback on flights there, and highway access from COS sucks so that also wasn’t a primary consideration.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
enplaned
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:25 pm

wjcandee wrote:
FWAERJ: I would say, "Never say never." DiamondFlyer correctly lays out the usual standards, but Amazon has made some interesting calls along the way... The airport location could just be because it has excellent road access, or it could be something else.


There are a couple places where Amazon has an FC or SC (or both) next to an airport, but the airport function is irrelevant. The most obvious is Amazon's FC/SC combo on the south border of SBD - which, of course, is on the other side of the airport from the Eastgate regional air-sort facility being built for Amazon.

It's one of those frustrating missed opportunities - in theory you could have an FC that feeds directly into a gateway, you could have a gateway feed directly into a SC/DC. Either would eliminate a truck arc, reducing time and improving reliability. If Amazon knows what the cost of an individual package delivery is (as of early 2018 they did not) and takes those costs into account properly, that would tend to prioritize lanes that have those time and cost advantages. That's if you're pricing everything correctly and properly taking those costs into account.

Amazon also has an SC (?) next to Concord Padgett airport (KJQF), which is a Part 139 airport just to the north of Charlotte. Of course, the local gateway is at CLT, so the fact that the Amazon facility is adjacent to another commercial airport is irrelevant.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:16 pm

SY has been flying RIC-CVG-RIC recently, looks to be a new station for Amazon.
 
MO11
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:25 pm

wjcandee wrote:

If Atlas can keep staffing its 767s, presumably it will keep the Amazon flying that it has, but I don't see any reason for Atlas to pick up more at the moment. [It would make a certain amount of sense that if Amazon anticipated putting any of the 12 at Atlas, they would let Atlas handle the leasing/conversion part of the transaction as well; OTOH, ATSG owns 3 ex-AA 767-300s that haven't been sent for conversion yet, and 6 767-300s currently in conversion at TLV, and has the right to buy ALL of the remaining retired AA 767-300s (which currently number 15), so if you lease from ATSG, they already have a dedicated supply of identical, well-maintained feedstock.]



Jetran bought N390AA on the 25th, and N360AA on the 26th. It sold N348AN to DHL yesterday.

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