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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:57 pm

SY now has a plane flying for Amazon AFW-CVG..Started today. I think it may return to AFW, not sure yet vs going on to another outstation
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:19 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
Ordered some vitamins a few days ago for my daughter on Amazon, they are coming today via UPS. Funny thing is, they were shipped one day air saver, routing DFW-RFD-JFK. Im surprised they weren't just placed on the Amazon Air AFW-JFK flight.


Could be due to capacity constraints. I noticed air shipments taking longer to fulfill than ground shipments lately; things that can be delivered in one or two days by ground almost always ship within 24 hours or less, but many things that require air transportation will take longer to ship out. Perhaps the Amazon Air flight was full so they gave it to UPS.

Last year I was getting a few local one-day shipments via UPS Ground, but that seems to have stopped. However, it seems like USPS has made a return for some of my Amazon shipments after a four-month hiatus (Amazon didn't use USPS for any of my shipments between March and June). OnTrac seems to have almost completely stopped where I live (I haven't gotten them in over a year for Amazon shipments).
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:33 am

USAirKid wrote:

enplaned wrote:
The planning problem for Amazon is more complicated than probably any other on earth. It's far more complicated than any passenger airline planning problem.

It's important to understand that, overall, delivery by air is a failure in the context of Amazon. This will almost certainly raise the hackles of some reading this - Amazon Air, a failure?! Well, no, obviously not. But looked at the right way, it's undeniably true that delivery by air is undesirable relative to other alternatives.

The cheapest form of delivery for Amazon is by truck from a nearby warehouse. Only when this is not possible is air used. In that respect, delivery by air occurs only when inventory placement has failed to stock the right amount of whatever near enough to the customer. And everytime that happens, it's a planning failure.


Enplaned, you've got a really good discussion here of the pieces. But you've missed something: the cheapest form of delivery for Amazon is filling the empty space that they already had planned on moving.


No, I don't think I did. In my post above, I said the following, which you may have missed:

enplaned wrote:
To do this right requires all kinds of very very careful accounting. For instance, suppose you are committed to flying a certain flight. So long as you can ensure that the stuff that must be on the flight (time sensitive) is on the flight, then, once you have committed to flying the flight you may as well fill it up. Packages are, on average, pretty light, the marginal cost of adding an additional package to a flight you are already committed to flying, is pretty close to zero. I don't know whether Amazon is taking advantage of such phenomena to put more air packages on board, but economics would suggest that such moves should be considered at least.


Once you have committed to flying a flight, you may as well fill it up... I completely agree with what you say, which is why I made the same point, albeit phrased somewhat differently.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:43 am

enplaned wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Enplaned, you've got a really good discussion here of the pieces. But you've missed something: the cheapest form of delivery for Amazon is filling the empty space that they already had planned on moving.


No, I don't think I did.


Ah you are correct. I didn’t fully get your point earlier.

My apologies for saying that you missed that bit of the dynamics.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:29 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
Ordered some vitamins a few days ago for my daughter on Amazon, they are coming today via UPS. Funny thing is, they were shipped one day air saver, routing DFW-RFD-JFK. Im surprised they weren't just placed on the Amazon Air AFW-JFK flight.


Could be due to capacity constraints. I noticed air shipments taking longer to fulfill than ground shipments lately; things that can be delivered in one or two days by ground almost always ship within 24 hours or less, but many things that require air transportation will take longer to ship out. Perhaps the Amazon Air flight was full so they gave it to UPS.

Last year I was getting a few local one-day shipments via UPS Ground, but that seems to have stopped. However, it seems like USPS has made a return for some of my Amazon shipments after a four-month hiatus (Amazon didn't use USPS for any of my shipments between March and June). OnTrac seems to have almost completely stopped where I live (I haven't gotten them in over a year for Amazon shipments).


Funny, here in NYC (Queens) all of my Amazon stuff comes
Via Lasership, or UPS. USPS doesn’t seem to be delivering any Amazon stuff now.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:22 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
Ordered some vitamins a few days ago for my daughter on Amazon, they are coming today via UPS. Funny thing is, they were shipped one day air saver, routing DFW-RFD-JFK. Im surprised they weren't just placed on the Amazon Air AFW-JFK flight.


Could be due to capacity constraints. I noticed air shipments taking longer to fulfill than ground shipments lately; things that can be delivered in one or two days by ground almost always ship within 24 hours or less, but many things that require air transportation will take longer to ship out. Perhaps the Amazon Air flight was full so they gave it to UPS.

Last year I was getting a few local one-day shipments via UPS Ground, but that seems to have stopped. However, it seems like USPS has made a return for some of my Amazon shipments after a four-month hiatus (Amazon didn't use USPS for any of my shipments between March and June). OnTrac seems to have almost completely stopped where I live (I haven't gotten them in over a year for Amazon shipments).


Funny, here in NYC (Queens) all of my Amazon stuff comes
Via Lasership, or UPS. USPS doesn’t seem to be delivering any Amazon stuff now.


I get the majority via Amazon Logistics, with some USPS and UPS. Lately it seems like those being given to USPS are oddly-shaped packages, such as a patio umbrella and a camping bed, while AMZL gets most of them that can easily fit in a mailbox.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:53 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:

Could be due to capacity constraints. I noticed air shipments taking longer to fulfill than ground shipments lately; things that can be delivered in one or two days by ground almost always ship within 24 hours or less, but many things that require air transportation will take longer to ship out. Perhaps the Amazon Air flight was full so they gave it to UPS.

Last year I was getting a few local one-day shipments via UPS Ground, but that seems to have stopped. However, it seems like USPS has made a return for some of my Amazon shipments after a four-month hiatus (Amazon didn't use USPS for any of my shipments between March and June). OnTrac seems to have almost completely stopped where I live (I haven't gotten them in over a year for Amazon shipments).


Funny, here in NYC (Queens) all of my Amazon stuff comes
Via Lasership, or UPS. USPS doesn’t seem to be delivering any Amazon stuff now.


I get the majority via Amazon Logistics, with some USPS and UPS. Lately it seems like those being given to USPS are oddly-shaped packages, such as a patio umbrella and a camping bed, while AMZL gets most of them that can easily fit in a mailbox.


Yes-I have noticed UPS seems to get the larger stuff. Whenever I order pull-up diapers, they deliver it. Also got a bike for her last week, came via UPS.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:46 pm

USAirKid wrote:
enplaned wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Enplaned, you've got a really good discussion here of the pieces. But you've missed something: the cheapest form of delivery for Amazon is filling the empty space that they already had planned on moving.


No, I don't think I did.


Ah you are correct. I didn’t fully get your point earlier.

My apologies for saying that you missed that bit of the dynamics.


No worries - I wrote a lot, and it wasn't as well edited as it could be. As E B White would have said, I didn't have the time to write a short post...
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:58 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:

I get the majority via Amazon Logistics, with some USPS and UPS. Lately it seems like those being given to USPS are oddly-shaped packages, such as a patio umbrella and a camping bed, while AMZL gets most of them that can easily fit in a mailbox.


Amazon's original own last mile concepts were all about drivers with their own cars (Flex). Since Trump started fulminating about jacking up USPS rates, Amazon got more serious about its own last mile delivery with its own (actually contractor, but usually with Amazon livery) vans. But, to the extent that Amazon still relies on drivers with their own cars in some markets, they tend only to be able to delivery the smaller stuff, leaving the odd, large, etc, packages for other methods. That may explain part of what you are seeing.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:10 pm

enplaned wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:

I get the majority via Amazon Logistics, with some USPS and UPS. Lately it seems like those being given to USPS are oddly-shaped packages, such as a patio umbrella and a camping bed, while AMZL gets most of them that can easily fit in a mailbox.


Amazon's original own last mile concepts were all about drivers with their own cars (Flex). Since Trump started fulminating about jacking up USPS rates, Amazon got more serious about its own last mile delivery with its own (actually contractor, but usually with Amazon livery) vans. But, to the extent that Amazon still relies on drivers with their own cars in some markets, they tend only to be able to delivery the smaller stuff, leaving the odd, large, etc, packages for other methods. That may explain part of what you are seeing.


For me, Flex mostly delivers Same-Day, Overnight by 8am, and a small number of Cycle 2 (midday sort/evening delivery) packages. Almost all Cycle 1 (morning sort/midday delivery) and most Cycle 2 are by the Amazon Delivery Service Partners (the ones in the Amazon vans).
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:19 pm

This shows what effect Amazon Air has had. (This is why discussing the network generally is necessary to understand what the air network is and does and where and how it and its fleet is likely to grow and change. Since reporters know bupkus about this, and make no effort to inform themselves, their stories about Amazon Air are mostly either a regurgitation of a press release or are just plain wrong.)

In all cases, what this is showing is the overwhelming percentage of volume that now does its line-haul within the Amazon Organic Network to the PSC (Sorting Center), either all-truck or truck-air-truck. It used to be that if it had to fly, it had to go FedEx or UPS. Now, a lot of the flown stuff goes on Amazon Air. Indeed, most of the Amazon that I do get by UPS is coming by UPS because it is coming Next Day Air, which the Amazon network isn't yet set up to provide.

Interesting about Queens, because in Manhattan 10021 it's overwhelmingly USPS last mile. On my orders, 85 percent or more USPS, 5 percent Lasership, maybe 10 percent UPS. Zero AMZL.

On Long Island, 50 percent AMZL now, 35 percent USPS, 15 percent UPS.
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Interesting about Queens, because in Manhattan 10021 it's overwhelmingly USPS last mile. On my orders, 85 percent or more USPS, 5 percent Lasership, maybe 10 percent UPS. Zero AMZL.


Clearly cost of handing it to USPS is simply a lot lower than Amazon doing it itself. I'd be interested to know whether USPS rates for Manhattan are a lot lower than the actual cost to the USPS - would not be surprised. But I'd also guess that USPS, with decades of experience delivering in Manhattan, probably also has intrinsically lower costs than any other outfit that would try to establish itself. Most of Manhattan, including UES, is pretty hostile environment for delivery. Can you imagine trying to set up Flex there? Jeez. Whereas USPS should have long-established facilities.

wjcandee wrote:
Now, a lot of the flown stuff goes on Amazon Air. Indeed, most of the Amazon that I do get by UPS is coming by UPS because it is coming Next Day Air, which the Amazon network isn't yet set up to provide.


Is that the case nationwide? Amazon Air is not even supporting limited one-day delivery with point-to-point flights or ILN minihub? I would have thought that by now they'd at least be experimenting, if not more.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:18 pm

enplaned wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Is that the case nationwide? Amazon Air is not even supporting limited one-day delivery with point-to-point flights or ILN minihub? I would have thought that by now they'd at least be experimenting, if not more.


I know Amazon last year operated an overnight PDX-PHX flight (later replaced by SEA-PHX during the holidays), and I did get some one-day deliveries on that flight.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:31 pm

I have had a few items come from our DC, in MN. Tires via MEM, cell phone from LAS to ONT to RFD to MSP. That was strange. If it has any battery it comes UPS otherwise USPS, we are in a rural area of MN. I love ordering online if I know what I need, Stop at PO in AM to get or wait til around 4 for UPS
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:52 pm

Also, the only time I ever got FedEx (other than Seller-Fulfilled Prime) was when One-Day shipping was a paid upgrade. Oddly, for Seller Fulfilled Prime I seem to get more FedEx than UPS (mostly FedEx Home Delivery, but I just ordered something via SFP that shipped via FedEx Express 2Day).
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:52 am

So N1409A, operating a GTI Amazon Air Flight 3743 from AUS-ILN on Friday afternoon, diverted to LIT and stayed there about 24 hours. It then flew (as GTI6743) to ILN Saturday afternoon, dropped its cargo, and immediately took off for MIA, presumably for a look-see by Atlas maint.

Initially, I was thinking, "Did they add LIT as a new station? With a 763?" That didn't quite compute for me. And they didn't.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:51 pm

As others pointed out above, the new facility at KLAL is in use.

Slowly, at first, it seems. Makes sense to get everybody used to what they're supposed to do.

The current aircraft line that uses LAL now goes SMF-LAL-ILN-JFK-SMF on ATI.

Kind of fun to look at the LAL arrivals and departures. It's like C172, C172, BE23, P28A, B767, C172, P28A....

If you didn't know better, you would think it was an error.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:58 pm

Does Amazon plan on moving TPA planes to LAL?? Or is LALA in addition to TPA?? I'm sure its been talked about, I just don't remember
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:45 pm

Looks like LAL flight to ILN has replaced the TPA-ILN flight and ILN is up to twelve flights a day for amazon
 
jreeves96
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:17 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So N1409A, operating a GTI Amazon Air Flight 3743 from AUS-ILN on Friday afternoon, diverted to LIT and stayed there about 24 hours. It then flew (as GTI6743) to ILN Saturday afternoon, dropped its cargo, and immediately took off for MIA, presumably for a look-see by Atlas maint.

Initially, I was thinking, "Did they add LIT as a new station? With a 763?" That didn't quite compute for me. And they didn't.


LIT was definitely unplanned. Crew didn't relay anything in ACARS so I can't find a reason why they diverted. She ferried to MIA and is still there, so presumably she is AOG for MX.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:21 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Does Amazon plan on moving TPA planes to LAL?? Or is LALA in addition to TPA?? I'm sure its been talked about, I just don't remember


Moving most if not all of the TPA flights to LAL.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:22 pm

jreeves96 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So N1409A, operating a GTI Amazon Air Flight 3743 from AUS-ILN on Friday afternoon, diverted to LIT and stayed there about 24 hours. It then flew (as GTI6743) to ILN Saturday afternoon, dropped its cargo, and immediately took off for MIA, presumably for a look-see by Atlas maint.

Initially, I was thinking, "Did they add LIT as a new station? With a 763?" That didn't quite compute for me. And they didn't.


LIT was definitely unplanned. Crew didn't relay anything in ACARS so I can't find a reason why they diverted. She ferried to MIA and is still there, so presumably she is AOG for MX.


Thanks, jreeves96!! Excellent info.
 
danipawa
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:34 am

Westjet is retiring their 4 B767, ending on Amazon too ?
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:54 am

Not sure if it was mentioned here...but N381AN is in TPA from TLV. Came over on 7/20. It wasn’t one of the 5 originally planned for Amazon this year. TPA seems to be able to pump them out quickly. Any idea where she is going?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:27 am

autopiloton wrote:
Not sure if it was mentioned here...but N381AN is in TPA from TLV. Came over on 7/20. It wasn’t one of the 5 originally planned for Amazon this year. TPA seems to be able to pump them out quickly. Any idea where she is going?


Great catch! Yochai usually gives us a heads-up these kinds of movements, and the test flights before that. Hope he is okay.

So 308CM and 304CM are both supposed to be going to UPS, because they have FADEC engines. 308CM is in TPA (for a month), 304CM is still in TLV.

Honestly, I don't know the answer. I'm actually surprised to see N381AN back before 384AN, which arrived in TLV a few days before it back in February. I think I know where 384 is going, and it's not an ATSG carrier. But 381, no clue. Could be stocking up on aircraft for Amazon due to be delivered next year (11 is a lot), or could be going to an outside carrier, because there is a lot of demand at CAM for these aircraft.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:19 pm

Talking about the NYC examples, it's amazing how Amazon's choices of shipping carriers can vary so wildly even in the same metropolitan area. I know for a while OnTrac was the #2 carrier behind AMZL in the West Valley in the Phoenix metro area; I don't know if that is still the case or not. USPS has historically been the #2 for us since AMZL has started serving our area in 2017.

Perhaps Amazon keeps a log of carrier performance for each ZIP code and prioritizes each carrier based on cost and reliability. It's possible Amazon might have deprioritized OnTrac for my ZIP code due to poor performance.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:28 pm

wjcandee wrote:
jreeves96 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So N1409A, operating a GTI Amazon Air Flight 3743 from AUS-ILN on Friday afternoon, diverted to LIT and stayed there about 24 hours. It then flew (as GTI6743) to ILN Saturday afternoon, dropped its cargo, and immediately took off for MIA, presumably for a look-see by Atlas maint.

Initially, I was thinking, "Did they add LIT as a new station? With a 763?" That didn't quite compute for me. And they didn't.


LIT was definitely unplanned. Crew didn't relay anything in ACARS so I can't find a reason why they diverted. She ferried to MIA and is still there, so presumably she is AOG for MX.


Thanks, jreeves96!! Excellent info.


Crew reported smoke in the cockpit and declared emergency, diverted to LIT.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
As others pointed out above, the new facility at KLAL is in use.

Slowly, at first, it seems. Makes sense to get everybody used to what they're supposed to do.

The current aircraft line that uses LAL now goes SMF-LAL-ILN-JFK-SMF on ATI.

Kind of fun to look at the LAL arrivals and departures. It's like C172, C172, BE23, P28A, B767, C172, P28A....

If you didn't know better, you would think it was an error.


Starting mid Aug Atlas/Southern will operate 737 PDX-LAL-RFD
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:38 pm

Atlas 767 starting early August HNL-OGG-KOA-RIV-HNL
 
BlueLineORD
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:56 pm

Clancy223 wrote:
Atlas 767 starting early August HNL-OGG-KOA-RIV-HNL


Highly unlikely. Two daily inter-island hops would be a poor use of a 767 especially when HNL already receives 2x daily nonstops. Outer island flights do appear to be starting soon based on jumpseat skeds though.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:09 pm

Thanks, Clancy223! Interesting and on-the-point info!
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:36 am

BlueLineORD wrote:
Clancy223 wrote:
Atlas 767 starting early August HNL-OGG-KOA-RIV-HNL


Highly unlikely. Two daily inter-island hops would be a poor use of a 767 especially when HNL already receives 2x daily nonstops. Outer island flights do appear to be starting soon based on jumpseat skeds though.


Schedule seems to be RIV-OGG-KOA-RIV.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
jreeves96
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:54 am

flyguy1 wrote:
BlueLineORD wrote:
Clancy223 wrote:
Atlas 767 starting early August HNL-OGG-KOA-RIV-HNL


Highly unlikely. Two daily inter-island hops would be a poor use of a 767 especially when HNL already receives 2x daily nonstops. Outer island flights do appear to be starting soon based on jumpseat skeds though.


Schedule seems to be RIV-OGG-KOA-RIV.


Accurate.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:30 am

By KOA do you mean HKO?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:58 am

GoodRide wrote:
By KOA do you mean HKO?


Okay, you're the pilot. Let me in on the joke, because I know that's what it is but I don't get it.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:06 am

Good little local news story on Amazon's first revenue flight into LAL. I like the little Amazon smile on all their brand-new (or at least refurbished) GSE.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/regi ... al-airport
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:21 pm

wjcandee wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
By KOA do you mean HKO?


Okay, you're the pilot. Let me in on the joke, because I know that's what it is but I don't get it.



Wasn’t meant to be a joke I was just inquiring whether the rumored upcoming inter-island service included Kona International?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:09 pm

Ah. I was confused because PHKO is KOA. 3-letter vs. 4-letter codes. IATA/ICAO. I assumed it was something more than that, because if I recall you have a sly sense of humor.

In the 3-letter-code scheme, I don't think there is an HKO. There's just PHKO in the 4 letter codes.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:41 pm

Hawaii's ICAO codes do have a rhyme and rhythm. P = Pacific, H = Hawaii, then the first two letters of the IATA code. PHOG (PHOGG), PHKO (PHKOA). PHNL is an exception because it works out that HNL fits nicely with the syntax. If HNL followed the syntax it would be PHHN.
 
Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:46 am

Are there any plans to add more cities this year to the network? I know AFW RIC LAL joined the network
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:11 am

wjcandee wrote:
Ah. I was confused because PHKO is KOA. 3-letter vs. 4-letter codes. IATA/ICAO. I assumed it was something more than that, because if I recall you have a sly sense of humor.



Hah, thanks! I do often say that flying is 10% math and 90% dad jokes.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:58 pm

Something interesting...not sure how much it means. In the past, CAM has always reserved the Amazon Prime tail numbers through the FAA. While I was rummaging through there to see if any additional ones had been reserved for the 11 planes next year, I noticed that Amazon Services, LLC is now reserving tail numbers and not CAM. Not sure what, if anything, it means. Just found it interesting.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:35 pm

autopiloton wrote:
Something interesting...not sure how much it means. In the past, CAM has always reserved the Amazon Prime tail numbers through the FAA. While I was rummaging through there to see if any additional ones had been reserved for the 11 planes next year, I noticed that Amazon Services, LLC is now reserving tail numbers and not CAM. Not sure what, if anything, it means. Just found it interesting.


What's weird is that I only see 8 of the 11 for next year already reserved. I think that strange only because I realize how many more aircraft Amazon is likely to be acquiring over the next few years, and I'm sure you noticed how many 3-digit AZ prime numbers are already in use, and there are only 14-16 or so prime numbers per hundred. How many aircraft does the State of Arizona have, anyway? Geez. It's like an air force. To try to get things going at least a little sequentially, one would think that Amazon would try to lock down a few more. I realize you only have like 13 months to use them, and maybe that's the answer, but why not pay and then pay again or renew again, unless that's not allowed.

I also noticed that CAM has earmarked 384AA to become N479AZ as of the middle of the month. I thought that 384AA was going somewhere else. And it still could be, as these things do change, but I found that interesting as well. Maybe 381AN will go where I thought 384AA was going.

As to why that law firm that does a huge percentage of the N-number reservations put them down in the name of Amazon instead of having CAM do them directly -- don't know. Maybe they charged less than CAM does to make the reservation? Maybe Amazon wants to trademark it? More likely, Amazon is just bringing more and more stuff surrounding Global Air in-house.
 
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nikeson13
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:19 pm

Amazon will be expanding ops in SCK, beginning with a +/- 56,000 sqft warehouse adjacent to the ramp, as well as of an expansion of the ramp for more parking space.
https://www.recordnet.com/news/20200722 ... -sj-region (article is average)
Been wondering since they both were stations if SMF and SCK will always run adjacent to eachother, or one will eventually take over for the other. points to more ops in the future for SCK
Nikolas
 
Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:36 am

nikeson13 wrote:
Amazon will be expanding ops in SCK, beginning with a +/- 56,000 sqft warehouse adjacent to the ramp, as well as of an expansion of the ramp for more parking space.
https://www.recordnet.com/news/20200722 ... -sj-region (article is average)
Been wondering since they both were stations if SMF and SCK will always run adjacent to eachother, or one will eventually take over for the other. points to more ops in the future for SCK


Sounds like the next regional air hub like how AFW and LAL are right now. Seems weird that they operate from both SCK and SMF since they cover the same area.
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am

Delta28L wrote:
nikeson13 wrote:
Amazon will be expanding ops in SCK, beginning with a +/- 56,000 sqft warehouse adjacent to the ramp, as well as of an expansion of the ramp for more parking space.
https://www.recordnet.com/news/20200722 ... -sj-region (article is average)
Been wondering since they both were stations if SMF and SCK will always run adjacent to eachother, or one will eventually take over for the other. points to more ops in the future for SCK


Sounds like the next regional air hub like how AFW and LAL are right now. Seems weird that they operate from both SCK and SMF since they cover the same area.


No, not at all. 56,000 sq ft is a tiny building on the scale of Amazon buildings.

By comparison, a non-AR FC building is 1,100,000 sq ft, the first gen AR FCs were about 850,000 sq ft. I think the LAL and AFW buildings are in the few hundred K sq ft range (i.e. somewhere in the 300,000 sq ft range +/-). (AR = Amazon Robotics, FC = Fulfillment Center = warehouse in normal everyday language).

This, I think, is probably just a permanent and somewhat larger replacement for the temporary building that was there before. Don't get me wrong, this is still a good thing for SCK, but this new building is not in the same class as a regional Amazon Air (outbound?) sort building, which might be 5 or 6 times larger.

One of the bottlenecks in the Amazon system is sortation at FCs. Packages come out the back of the building and are sent to a lot of different rollers, from which associates pack trucks. If you have an outbound sort building at the airport, FCs feeding that building only have to sort packages down to the level of knowing they're going on Amazon Air. You don't have to sort them to "Amazon Air to BWI with onward direction to this or that Sort Center or delivery station or whatnot".

Something like that, anyway...
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:04 am

We went through the SCK/SFO/SMF issues pretty-soon after the whole Amazon Air thing got started. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. SCK is wonderfully-located in many ways, but it gets fogged in on a whole lot of mornings in the Winter, and was originally lacking a CAT II/III ILS. (It does now have an SA CAT II on 29R, which I think is new-ish.) What Amazon decided to do was have and eat cake, using each to its advantages.

Also, until you have a central sort of sufficient size at CVG, people are still building cans for destinations somewhere other than at the central sort. If you have a central sort, if it's going by air, it can go in any can or on any truck that's going to the airport. The FCs weren't set up to do the kind of outbound sorting that they have to do to support the bypass flights (and to differentiate between bypass and through-CVG or through-ILN) and have impressively made-do. The sorts at the airport are only necessary because of the limited DHL facility vs the amount of volume that the network carries, leading to all the bypass flights, which are actually a majority. By doing some sorting at the airport, and assembling cans for particular flights and destinations, they take some but not all the load off the FCs. It will be interesting to see how much of the network continues to be bypass flights once Amazon At CVG is really blowing and going, and how it affects the airport operations.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:41 am

I saw an interesting thing on the ground side today in Seattle. There was an Amazon delivery partner truck that was a 15-foot straight truck. (Or so, definitely no more than 20-feet.)

Up until today I'd only seen Dodge Sprinters / Ford Transit vehicles for Amazon deliveries. I know in my brief time at UPS (Package not Freight) they didn't like straight trucks for delivery, since the driver had to get out and walk around before they could access packages. I know in spots where UPS did use straight trucks for locations where they'd make lots of deliveries (Malls, big offices) and when they had to during peak times.

I'm kinda curious if this marks a new permutation in Amazon's organic delivery business..
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:51 am

USPS uses a straight truck of the size you mention to drop packages off at my 400+ unit apartment building in Manhattan. I think they split it between us and a few other similar-sized buildings. It's mostly Amazon volume. If Amazon is making deliveries to certain such buildings in major cities, where it is now mostly using the Postal Service because they do a good job at that kind of stuff, and it wants to supplant them, maybe this is a good vehicle for that.

I think you kind of explain why that might be. If you have to run all the way from a destination node to a specific group of buildings, if the buildings are homes and offices with onesies and twosies package-wise, then it makes sense to provide a vehicle that lets the driver get easily in and out to the packages, which at UPS are well-organized in the truck. If he's making 50 stops, the ease of the in and out and in and out is paramount. If he's unloading an entire package car at a total of 4 buildings, why not give him a good-sized truck that prioritizes volume over ease of in-and-out, and let him make six stops instead of 4 in the package car, rolling dollies off the truck at each destination? I think it's all about the makeup of the delivery destinations.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:30 am

A formal announcement for the El Paso fulfillment center was made last week, confirmed to be an Amazon Robotics Sortable.

https://kfoxtv.com/news/local/amazon-br ... so-in-2021

Looks like Amazon is beefing up the region. I'm guessing perhaps the reason for putting many Non-Sortable FCs in Phoenix could be for its central location for Southern California, southern Nevada, New Mexico, and west Texas, while Sortable is generally faster moving and can more easily be placed closer to customers.

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