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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:02 pm

I found it an interesting observation about human nature that when the virus hit and we found ourselves in a pandemic of historic proportions. Amazon announced that because orders were so high, and supplies were often low, that essential items would have priority, and other items would take longer. Those people working in warehouses were risking their lives and health to provide us food, clothing etc. They had legitimate worries about their families. Orders were at a level of Christmas seasons - in March and April. Amazon added 175K workers to try to meet the challenge. The whole system was stressed. As were most of us. The interesting thing is that despite all Amazon did to meet this historic challenge in what I thought an impressive response their reputation went down in the public polls. (and orders stayed high!)

I enjoy tracking my many orders, and stand in awe that when I want some shoe goo from some 3rd party seller they manage to get it to me in 5 or 6 days. Sometimes the ways things sit around, suddenly go a couple thousand miles, sit, go another thousand, and mysteriously appear a day or two before the last pessimistic delivery day. Amusement. But then these days I sit around a lot (and run and sprint) but still don't get very far from home.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:14 pm

sunking737 wrote:
wjcandee, I think that SY was sending planes to LQQ for interior mods. Maybe AAR is booked full now with helping Boeing with its AD work, to get all the MAX's ready to return to service. I guess its a wait and see for more Amazon planes at SY.. Remember these 3 words." SUBJECT TO CHANGE" used to be printed on the bottom of all airline schedules



N5227A leased to Amazon/Southern Air on Wednesday (Aug 5).
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:56 pm

MO11 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
wjcandee, I think that SY was sending planes to LQQ for interior mods. Maybe AAR is booked full now with helping Boeing with its AD work, to get all the MAX's ready to return to service. I guess its a wait and see for more Amazon planes at SY.. Remember these 3 words." SUBJECT TO CHANGE" used to be printed on the bottom of all airline schedules



N5227A leased to Amazon/Southern Air on Wednesday (Aug 5).
My source kept showing SY getting more planes then the 10...Straighten out now
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:17 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
I found it an interesting observation about human nature that when the virus hit and we found ourselves in a pandemic of historic proportions. Amazon announced that because orders were so high, and supplies were often low, that essential items would have priority, and other items would take longer. Those people working in warehouses were risking their lives and health to provide us food, clothing etc. They had legitimate worries about their families. Orders were at a level of Christmas seasons - in March and April. Amazon added 175K workers to try to meet the challenge. The whole system was stressed. As were most of us. The interesting thing is that despite all Amazon did to meet this historic challenge in what I thought an impressive response their reputation went down in the public polls. (and orders stayed high!)

I enjoy tracking my many orders, and stand in awe that when I want some shoe goo from some 3rd party seller they manage to get it to me in 5 or 6 days. Sometimes the ways things sit around, suddenly go a couple thousand miles, sit, go another thousand, and mysteriously appear a day or two before the last pessimistic delivery day. Amusement. But then these days I sit around a lot (and run and sprint) but still don't get very far from home.


Great post. I think the "public opinion" stuff was swayed by all the media coverage of the union activity attempted at the Staten Island DC and a few other places, where they tried to paint Amazon as the usual greedy, worker-exploiting employer. Many of the Amazon workers were really ripping on those people to STFU, as they liked their employer -- even in NYC! The story eventually died, but that drumbeat couldn't help in "public opinion". Add that to Amazon customers who think that they should always be able to get what they want tomorrow, even in a pandemic, and the rep could go down. However, overall, the company did very well. Good WSJ article today on the numbers that were just released.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:42 pm

HPRamper wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Amazon forbade Ground's use temporarily because it saw that Ground sucked before FedEx did (or at least would admit).

Oh, FedEx Corp has always known Ground sucked. Ground has sucked since the beginning and has gotten steadily worse as volumes increased. They hide behind that PR-speak you mention. The beancounters long ago decided that X-amount of money lost from terrible Ground customer service and reliability was somehow less than X-amount they would be paying to have Express handle the freight instead.


In fact, even Walmart is using UPS and regional shipping companies such as OnTrac for a growing number of their shipments in recent times even though FedEx is still their preferred shipper. Apparently Walmart knows that FedEx Ground/Home is having some problems and is leveraging other carriers for some of their shipments.
 
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B350pilot
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:13 pm

per Twitter: Amazon launching air cargo operations in Maui and on Hawaii Island today.

https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1291452240218206211?s=20

I don't see anything yet on Flight Aware

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/PHOG

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/PHKO
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:28 pm

That's gonna be that Atlas flight that someone was talking about Cali-HNL-OGG-KOA-Cali. It will be interesting to see the actual route.

I think ATA once had a flight kind of like that...

Well, look at this: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI ... /KRIV/PHOG

So maybe it's RIV-OGG-KOA-RIV.

I wonder how many 'Mercans think that Honolulu is on Hawaii Island? Even I, who have been there and know the difference, read that Tweet and said, "They already serve Hawaii. That's weird." Then, I said, "Ohhh...Hawai'i Island. They left out the apostrophe."
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:13 am

And it's looking like that's the route: RIV-OGG-KOA-RIV (or ONT)

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI ... /PHOG/PHKO

So it's planning to be on the ground at OGG for a little under 2 hours before departing to KOA. I don't see the departure from KOA entered into the FAA system yet.

Using N1399A today (one of the all-white ones). That might make it easier to follow...

(Nerd Alert: The all-white ones at Atlas are: N1709A, N1399A, N1511A and N1619A. The latter two are powered by PW engines; the rest of the Amazon 767-300 fleet is GE. The "A"-suffixed 763s are FADEC, the "AZ" ones are not.)
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:49 am

 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:12 pm

N384AA is currently flying TLV-SNN-TPA. It’s somewhere over the UK as I type this. Routing was taken from FlightAware.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
FloridaMark
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:54 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
N384AA is currently flying TLV-SNN-TPA. It’s somewhere over the UK as I type this. Routing was taken from FlightAware.


Landed Shannon just after 9am EDT.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:58 pm

wjcandee wrote:
(Nerd Alert: The all-white ones at Atlas are: N1709A, N1399A, N1511A and N1619A. The latter two are powered by PW engines; the rest of the Amazon 767-300 fleet is GE. The "A"-suffixed 763s are FADEC, the "AZ" ones are not.)


Minor, however, the A suffixed and AZ suffixed when it comes to 76 are the difference of ATSG vs Atlas original birds and how the fleets were leased (Titan/Andromeda vs CAM) in their initial purchase with Amazon. It isn't directly related to the aircraft having FADEC or not... technically that's not at all what the suffixes are about... with Atlas fleet: the 763's with PW engines are (fadec by a different name) EEC, the 767 GE aircraft at CF6 FADEC, and all the 762's (DHL and the 767MW) are EEC systems with hydomechanical control (JT9D and CF6 PMC).
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:58 pm

Yes, of course, the FADEC situation vis a vis the tail numbers is a result of Atlas wanting FADEC aircraft and ATI not caring. And Atlas initially operating aircraft that were leased to Amazon by Titan/Andromeda, while ATI initially operated aircraft that were leased to Amazon by CAM. And Titan using an "A" suffix and CAM using "AZ". I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

But that's the current reality, regardless of how it happened.

I thought it was a nifty trick to share in terms of thinking about the features of what you're looking at.

[At ABX, the "CY" aircraft have Pratts. That's undoubtedly for a reason. This wasn't.]
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:46 pm

And it seems like N384AA, which is possibly going to Amazon, will be headed for TPA (possibly via FLL). AMES must have more available capability in TPA than ILN as a result of pax airline maintenance being reduced, something Atlas mentioned in its report today. (Atlas said that it was being offered significant discounts on third-party maintenance and was opportunistically taking advantage of those.)
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:44 am

B350pilot wrote:
per Twitter: Amazon launching air cargo operations in Maui and on Hawaii Island today.

https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1291452240218206211?s=20

I don't see anything yet on Flight Aware

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/PHOG

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/PHKO


An issue with Hawaii & Alaska flying is that within the Amazon consumer delivery network there's no backhaul traffic. Pre-Covid, there was at least the prospect of perhaps filling up the aircraft HNL/ANC to lower-48 with air freight from Asia - enabling Asia-HNL/ANC-lower 48 air freight routing. I don't know whether Amazon managed to do that, but it's at least a possibility, pre-Covid.

With KOA-mainland I'd have thought that kind of thing would be a lot less likely, even pre-Covid. There just aren't that many Asia-KOA flights, even pre-Covid.

I dunno, anyone else know of anything else Amazon could potentially find to fill up the flights KOA-mainland? I don't think there are many Amazon FCs on the Big Island.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:39 am

enplaned wrote:
B350pilot wrote:
per Twitter: Amazon launching air cargo operations in Maui and on Hawaii Island today.

https://twitter.com/amazonnews/status/1291452240218206211?s=20

I don't see anything yet on Flight Aware

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/PHOG

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/PHKO


An issue with Hawaii & Alaska flying is that within the Amazon consumer delivery network there's no backhaul traffic. Pre-Covid, there was at least the prospect of perhaps filling up the aircraft HNL/ANC to lower-48 with air freight from Asia - enabling Asia-HNL/ANC-lower 48 air freight routing. I don't know whether Amazon managed to do that, but it's at least a possibility, pre-Covid.

With KOA-mainland I'd have thought that kind of thing would be a lot less likely, even pre-Covid. There just aren't that many Asia-KOA flights, even pre-Covid.

I dunno, anyone else know of anything else Amazon could potentially find to fill up the flights KOA-mainland? I don't think there are many Amazon FCs on the Big Island.


Last mile delivery for Alaska/Hawaii/Puerto Rico Amazon Air is handled by USPS. Even with the Amazon Air flights, Amazon still sometimes uses USPS Priority Mail, International Bridge, UPS 2nd Day/Next Day Air, or UPS Mail Innovations.
 
tofen
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:47 am

N384AA just left SNN about 45 min ago on it's way back to the states. Currently making her way out over the Atlantic.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:14 pm

Res back haul from Hawaii and Alaska: Are there cargo flights carrying Amazon bound good (even 3rd party seller bound) consumer goods from Japan, China, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, India flying to Hawaii? Could US goods 'ship' shipped to Hawaii fill those planes back to Asia. International trade has been complex for the last 4000 years. Just finished 3 or 4 books some specifically on that.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:52 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Res back haul from Hawaii and Alaska: Are there cargo flights carrying Amazon bound good (even 3rd party seller bound) consumer goods from Japan, China, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, India flying to Hawaii? Could US goods 'ship' shipped to Hawaii fill those planes back to Asia. International trade has been complex for the last 4000 years. Just finished 3 or 4 books some specifically on that.


My guess is that in normal (non-Covid) times Amazon could string together some supply chains like this. Pre-Covid there were plenty of widebody flights from Asia to Hawaii, and I am told that this volume (pre-Covid) exceeds that of US carriers on Hawaii-Mainland. So, in theory, the Amazon back-haul flights might enable some cheap air freight capacity to the US mainland from Asia. In theory. Amazon does have its own devices (e.g. Kindle) which I assume are made in Asia.

I don't know whether, pre-Covid, they had made anything like this happen. But you'd figure they'd be motivated to find something to make the backhaul pay, even partially.
 
Navion
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:07 pm

Just watched N384AA land at FLL about 1:30 p.m. on the north runway and park at Customs (next to the Sheltair FBO). Wasn't on the ground long. Left for TPA at 2:30 p.m. I love looking at the unpainted conversion details. Fascinating.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:36 pm

Sun Country is now flying ONT-BDL-CVG-ONT for Prime. Started this week.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:04 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Sun Country is now flying ONT-BDL-CVG-ONT for Prime. Started this week.

They can’t seem to figure out what they want to do with this rotation. It’s been between Southern, Atlas, and ABX
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:18 pm

Navion wrote:
Just watched N384AA land at FLL about 1:30 p.m. on the north runway and park at Customs (next to the Sheltair FBO). Wasn't on the ground long. Left for TPA at 2:30 p.m. I love looking at the unpainted conversion details. Fascinating.


You didn't get a photo by chance, didya? Would love to see it if you did.
 
Navion
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:04 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Navion wrote:
Just watched N384AA land at FLL about 1:30 p.m. on the north runway and park at Customs (next to the Sheltair FBO). Wasn't on the ground long. Left for TPA at 2:30 p.m. I love looking at the unpainted conversion details. Fascinating.


You didn't get a photo by chance, didya? Would love to see it if you did.


No, I didn't unfortunately. There was not a good spot once it was on the ground. I watched it park in front of Sheltair and spent the time admiring the "patchwork".

Maybe someone in TPA can grab a photo.

I know this sounds obvious but it did look exactly like the most recent photo on Jetphotos. Interestingly an American 738 landed immediately afterward and passed each other as the 738 rolled out while N384AA taxied to Sheltair. I wondered how many times those 2 jets had passed each other in the past.

Edit: A gentleman named Adam Collins posted a phone photo on the "Florida Aviation News & Photography" group on Facebook. Hope that helps.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:03 am

It looks like Amazon is now opening special Delivery Stations for extra bulky items. I just ordered a box spring for my bed. It shipped from XUSH ("X" FCs are those for items even larger than Non-Sortable) in Phoenix, and then was sorted in HPX1 in Phoenix ("H" standing for "Heavy"). The DSP driver came in a large white box truck.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:24 pm

enplaned wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Res back haul from Hawaii and Alaska: Are there cargo flights carrying Amazon bound good (even 3rd party seller bound) consumer goods from Japan, China, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, India flying to Hawaii? Could US goods 'ship' shipped to Hawaii fill those planes back to Asia. International trade has been complex for the last 4000 years. Just finished 3 or 4 books some specifically on that.


My guess is that in normal (non-Covid) times Amazon could string together some supply chains like this. Pre-Covid there were plenty of widebody flights from Asia to Hawaii, and I am told that this volume (pre-Covid) exceeds that of US carriers on Hawaii-Mainland. So, in theory, the Amazon back-haul flights might enable some cheap air freight capacity to the US mainland from Asia. In theory. Amazon does have its own devices (e.g. Kindle) which I assume are made in Asia.

I don't know whether, pre-Covid, they had made anything like this happen. But you'd figure they'd be motivated to find something to make the backhaul pay, even partially.


Currently the HNL/KOA flights to RIV/ONT are carrying empty containters, extremely little cargo if any on the return flights. Continuously showing 5-8% volume at 10-15k lbs.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:24 am

Thanks, Navion! I will have a look. Most of the AA aircraft don't seem to need too very much surgery (but given that they're basically getting a D-check, they're of course going to need some). What's remarkable is what some of the multi-owner, ex-crap-airlines 763s look like when IAI is done. Very impressive amounts of sheet-metal work.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:28 am

I frankly didn't expect that there would be that much backhaul on the Amazon Hawaii flights. Hawaii is basically an airfreight destination, and whether it's Amazon or UPS, the traffic is very-directional and the prices reflect that.

The key for Amazon is to be able to do it themselves cheaper and/or faster and/or more-reliably than the service offered to Amazon by other providers (who also have the directionality issue to contend with). That Amazon has now raised the number of ONT/RIV flights to/from Hawaii to 3 round-trips suggests that they are happy with the price/quality equation.
 
enplaned
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:13 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I frankly didn't expect that there would be that much backhaul on the Amazon Hawaii flights. Hawaii is basically an airfreight destination, and whether it's Amazon or UPS, the traffic is very-directional and the prices reflect that.

The key for Amazon is to be able to do it themselves cheaper and/or faster and/or more-reliably than the service offered to Amazon by other providers (who also have the directionality issue to contend with). That Amazon has now raised the number of ONT/RIV flights to/from Hawaii to 3 round-trips suggests that they are happy with the price/quality equation.


There is almost zero intrinsic backhaul (i.e. local demand Hawaii to Mainland) within the Amazon network. Some amount of returns could be transported this way.

The question is whether you can gin up demand (in normal times) by enabling more capacity from Asia-Hawaii-Mainland. If you can, and if you can effectively defray a portion of the cost of getting Amazon packages to Hawaii, that reduces the cost of fast delivery and thereby improves Amazon Hawaiian customer experience. If you could knock down the cost per package by e.g. 30%, that would be a huge win.

Within the freight world in general (not just Amazon Air, not just air freight) the issue of finding backhaul traffic is huge. Many ships, trucks, aircraft operate the return leg either completely or mostly empty.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:22 pm

enplaned wrote:
Within the freight world in general (not just Amazon Air, not just air freight) the issue of finding backhaul traffic is huge. Many ships, trucks, aircraft operate the return leg either completely or mostly empty.


So much so that at least in trucking there’s a term for it: deadheading. I wonder if that is in use in the airline business.

(There’s also reefers, bobtailing, and more that I’ve forgotten about...)
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:43 pm

USAirKid wrote:
enplaned wrote:
Within the freight world in general (not just Amazon Air, not just air freight) the issue of finding backhaul traffic is huge. Many ships, trucks, aircraft operate the return leg either completely or mostly empty.


So much so that at least in trucking there’s a term for it: deadheading. I wonder if that is in use in the airline business.

(There’s also reefers, bobtailing, and more that I’ve forgotten about...)


yes but trying to get a trucker to stick around long enough for loading a company backhaul is tough enough as it is! When getting paid the same loaded or empty they usually bugged out and left us high and dry.

Eventually I would have enough staged on a dock that when I could corner one I'd send them back to the warehouse heavy with returns and pallets. Stacked 18 high, you could really put some pounds in that backhaul.

I'm sure since most airlines are more tightly run than trucklines there's a bit more control over that though.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:03 pm

According to Skyliner SE-RLC, LN 27, which has been at TPA for several months is back to N742AX. Will we be seeing this in the ABX Amazon rotation soon or is it headed over to Asia?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:31 am

Spacepope wrote:
According to Skyliner SE-RLC, LN 27, which has been at TPA for several months is back to N742AX. Will we be seeing this in the ABX Amazon rotation soon or is it headed over to Asia?


I see paperwork linking it to ABX as of August 6.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:40 am

Spacepope wrote:
According to Skyliner SE-RLC, LN 27, which has been at TPA for several months is back to N742AX. Will we be seeing this in the ABX Amazon rotation soon or is it headed over to Asia?


I think it's almost certainly not going to Amazon, and probably not to ABX.

It's one of two 767-200s that have been returned from West Atlantic (e.g. West Air Sweden, SWN) in the past year or so. This one was SE-RLC, the other one was SE-RLD.

SE-RLD was 773AX before being leased to West Atlantic, and has been sitting in ILN, with its old tail number back, for more than a year (since June 2019).

ATSG has been talking in investor calls about having two 767-200 lease returns to lease to external customers this year. One was N741AX, which went to Raya at the end of May, after sitting forlornly at TPA for basically 16 months, after having spent the previous 8 months getting some maintenance on and off at ILN. So it was on the ground for essentially two years.

I had assumed that the other aircraft to be leased externally would be N773AX, but I haven't seen anything to suggest where it's going or when it's leaving. I think that if anyone was thinking of putting 742AX at ABX, they would have accelerated that process and used it instead of N752CX to cover the CVG-DTW-CVG route for DHL while an Atlas 767 is in maintenance. To go from the main-deck capacity of a 767-300 to the 10 cans that a 757Combi can handle smacks of desperation, although it may be that that is all that's needed, or that whatever ATSG aircraft was planned to handle it is in maintenance or AOG. (For example, N371CM has been AOG in ORD since hitting birds on takeoff on Friday.)

However, the use of 752CX for the next 5 weeks or so seems to have been planned for at least a couple of weeks.

I have never been able to figure out how the limited number of cans coming into CVG from Europe and Asia require so many larger aircraft to distribute within the US, but I'm no expert on DHL. I know a lot of what goes through CVG is actually to/from Canada and Mexico, so maybe that's the answer. But to upgrade a route to a 767-300 and then handle it with a 757 Combi like a month later? Weird.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:08 am

Here in MN some of us just noticed that the SY/Amazon planes are now sporting names above the operated by Sun Country next to the front doors..L-1 R-1..
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:33 am

sunking737 wrote:
Here in MN some of us just noticed that the SY/Amazon planes are now sporting names above the operated by Sun Country next to the front doors..L-1 R-1..


Excellent! I'm all for naming planes! Somewhere I have a list of all (or at least most) of the TWA 727 tail numbers, and, for each, it's associated unofficial "Pig" name.

It wasn't ever written next to the door, but usually in the hold.

The word "pig" didn't necessarily appear in the name; it was more conceptual and very amusing, at least to me. Very-creative. Some require one to be of a certain era (like to know that Kermit desired Miss Piggy, or to have watched Miami Vice, which was a big show at one time, etc.).

These kinds of work-culture things are, to me, amazing and wonderful.

Okay, I found an a.net link where a poster has most of them (70-something names out of 90-something TWA 727s): viewtopic.php?t=132063

Wiener Winger
Kitty Hog
My Hammy Vice
Old Lang Swine
Ozone Oinker
Kermit's Desire
Sue Oui
Road Hog
Swine Flew
...etc...

I also found another list that fills in some of the blanks I notice that the names of the -100s were more "piggy" than the later ones, which were more abstract. Those are towards the bottom of the linked list, but those were the earlier ships. A couple had more than one name. The first TWA 727-100, N731TW, actually is said to have had 3, including "Swinus Plumitus" and "Supersonicus" as well as Boeing Oink. This all implies that this was the airframe that made the famous 34,000-foot supersonic dive before the crew could regain control, where "Hoot" Gibson, the captain, was rudely questioned by the FAA. The Internet seems to say that that tail was actually 740TW, a later aircraft, but I didn't bother to probe further.
Last edited by wjcandee on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:58 am, edited 6 times in total.
 
d8s
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:35 am

I know Amazon has built a new distibution complex just east of KWPT (Bremerton, WA). Anyone know if they will be flying Amazon Prime planes in to KPWT? The airport is working on taxi ways and the FAA recently spent 4 hours testing the ILS. The building is supposed to open in October.
 
f18raider
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:32 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:45 am

sunking737 wrote:
Here in MN some of us just noticed that the SY/Amazon planes are now sporting names above the operated by Sun Country next to the front doors..L-1 R-1..


N5396A is named “Aurora” and N7907A is named “Bias for Altitude”
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8977
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:42 am

If MO11 says N742AX is linked to ABX, I defer to him, because he knows this stuff. I didn't see his post when I wrote mine, and I don't mean to be seen as contradicting him.

I guess 742ax, which is an early-model 767-200, is the "replacement" for N363CM, a newer 767-300 conversion that ATSG pulled from ABX and leased to MAS Air, which seems to be using it on the Mexico routes that ABX once flew, then 21 Air took over but then stopped. It's odd, though, because ABX is likely to have another 767-200 free in the next few months (N312AA), because one of ABX's military routes is going to a non-ATSG carrier. But maybe they have a different military route in mind for 312AA.
 
HPRamper
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:08 pm

ATN3402 from SEA to ANC just turned around after about 20 minutes in flight and landed again, they momentarily closed the runway and the fire department met them immediately after landing. All seems ok, but after being cleared by fire they taxied back to the Amazon ramp facility. Tail N313AZ.
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 4692
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
If MO11 says N742AX is linked to ABX, I defer to him, because he knows this stuff. I didn't see his post when I wrote mine, and I don't mean to be seen as contradicting him.

I guess 742ax, which is an early-model 767-200, is the "replacement" for N363CM, a newer 767-300 conversion that ATSG pulled from ABX and leased to MAS Air, which seems to be using it on the Mexico routes that ABX once flew, then 21 Air took over but then stopped. It's odd, though, because ABX is likely to have another 767-200 free in the next few months (N312AA), because one of ABX's military routes is going to a non-ATSG carrier. But maybe they have a different military route in mind for 312AA.


I just was also curious as 742 is a -232, which are the second highest cycle batch after the -281s. Wasn't Raya supposed to get a second one? The ABX registration might just be a placeholder, though that would be a little odd as they normally get -CM ones in that case. One other possibility is that it's being brought online as an additional spare if there's a spate of heavy checks coming up on the existing fleet.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
enplaned
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:12 pm

Did we know that Amazon.com is now a customer of Western Global?

See the second-to-last paragraph of this:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bond-offer
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:01 pm

enplaned wrote:
Did we know that Amazon.com is now a customer of Western Global?

See the second-to-last paragraph of this:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bond-offer


Yikes. Obviously Amazon wouldn't use them for anything that required, say, reliable service. Only thing I can think of would be movements of things from Asia. Amazon has a subsidiary called Beijing Century JOYO Courier Service Co. Ltd., which is at a minimum an ocean freight broker. No reason they couldn't do air as well. Perhaps Western Global (and doubtless other carriers) provided some charter services to help move certain high-demand items to the US in the first half. Having brought the last-mile situation largely under control, Amazon has gotten involved in the middle-mile ground business as a freight broker and a direct-to-the-railroads operator. I think the former is for the public generally (i.e. you can use Amazon to move full 53-foot dry van trailers of stuff if you want, but only that) and the latter is for itself. You have probably seen more-and-more Amazon containers on TOFC/COFC trains in the West, where they're starting to do a portion of their business themselves rather than through JB Hunt and others who normally book and handle that business. It's a smart move.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:36 pm

wjcandee wrote:
enplaned wrote:
Did we know that Amazon.com is now a customer of Western Global?

See the second-to-last paragraph of this:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bond-offer


Yikes. Obviously Amazon wouldn't use them for anything that required, say, reliable service. Only thing I can think of would be movements of things from Asia.


There are a handful of flights that operate regularly: LAX-ICN-HKG-ICN-ANC-LAX, and ORD-ANC-ICN-HKG-ICN-ANC-ORD: both operate every other day.
Then there seems to be MIA-BRU and MIA-BOG flights that operate daily, but I think I smell DHL and/or Strategic on these. And then there are the lobster flights.
 
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sunking737
Posts: 1628
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:51 pm

Cargojet Canada is getting another 767-300F Any idea from who?? They do Prime don't they up nord there ya??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
FloridaMark
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:03 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Cargojet Canada is getting another 767-300F Any idea from who?? They do Prime don't they up nord there ya??


Cargojet has a former Air Canada B767...C-FCAE in Tel Aviv undergoing F conversion.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8977
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:53 pm

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
enplaned wrote:
Did we know that Amazon.com is now a customer of Western Global?

See the second-to-last paragraph of this:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bond-offer


Yikes. Obviously Amazon wouldn't use them for anything that required, say, reliable service. Only thing I can think of would be movements of things from Asia.


There are a handful of flights that operate regularly: LAX-ICN-HKG-ICN-ANC-LAX, and ORD-ANC-ICN-HKG-ICN-ANC-ORD: both operate every other day.
Then there seems to be MIA-BRU and MIA-BOG flights that operate daily, but I think I smell DHL and/or Strategic on these. And then there are the lobster flights.


Yeah, I thought a bunch of that was (irregularly, because that's all WGN has been capable of during this huge opportunity) DHL. Other carriers also jumped in on those routes, including one to CVG from HKG. But the South America flights, the MIA-BRU, the ORD-Europe -- all that has to be DHL, and yet they're trumpeting Amazon? The UPS stuff they mention is actually, I think, UPS as the government's contractor on the Air Bridge flights. At one point, WGN had 3 (or maybe it was more) MD11s broken in SDF. The whole thing has just been sad. They mention the full complement of aircraft that they own, which includes 2 MD11s that have yet to be rendered flyable in-service, and one as-yet-to-be-even-registered 747-400F, all of which are sitting at SHV going nowhere. They also have on any given day around half of their remaining fleet of MD11s broken or in maintenance. They have to have the 3-month record (particularly per-capita) of air returns at ANC and elsewhere. The operating tempo was just too high for the organization to handle, it seems.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8977
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:04 am

HPRamper wrote:
ATN3402 from SEA to ANC just turned around after about 20 minutes in flight and landed again, they momentarily closed the runway and the fire department met them immediately after landing. All seems ok, but after being cleared by fire they taxied back to the Amazon ramp facility. Tail N313AZ.


Any more color on this? I started to look into it; they didn't climb more than a couple thousand feet, I noticed. I also heard them on short final, characterizing themselves as the "emergency aircraft" and asking Tower for the frequency to speak to ARFF while still in the air, but didn't have time to look more into it.
 
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sunking737
Posts: 1628
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:14 am

On the WGN matter the owners are selling 49%?? to the employees for $400 Million?? Maybe now they will have money to fixed their broken birds...Right??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8977
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:03 am

sunking737 wrote:
On the WGN matter the owners are selling 49%?? to the employees for $400 Million?? Maybe now they will have money to fixed their broken birds...Right??


The whole thing is weird. They don't want to borrow money and be beholden to lenders or investors, because they want to do it the way they want to do it. Maybe they think this is a way to get a needed cash infusion without having to answer to anybody. I doubt they would change their ways at all.

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