wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:23 pm

Trav and Cal:

It's still the same. Remember that most of the Amazon network, unlike our mental picture of UPS and FedEx, is not an "out-and-back" setup. So the flight into a node isn't necessarily going back whence it came. Lots of examples of this these days. The idea is that certain lanes are directional and to efficiently serve them. One example is that the airplane in question goes ILN-SEA-ANC-PHX (and then rotates out on a subsequent flight, either to a TPA line or an RFD line). So there actually is no PHX-ANC, only ANC-PHX. From ILN-SEA-ANC, the flight is carrying Prime to Alaska, of which there is a LOT.
 
travaz
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:57 pm

Thanks WJ!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:29 pm

travaz wrote:
I dont know the answer but here is the history of 8C 3715 Daily from ANC to PHX
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/8c3715

Corrected flight direction


So plugging int he aircraft data it appears to be a SEA-ANC-PHX trip rather than a PHX out and back.
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GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:55 am

WJ is correct, the planes going ANC-PHX typically get redirected elsewhere in the system. Today’s bird that went up to ANC went to PHX and then to TPA. It probably won’t see ANC again for some time, under normal circumstances.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am

wjcandee wrote:
Trav and Cal:

It's still the same. Remember that most of the Amazon network, unlike our mental picture of UPS and FedEx, is not an "out-and-back" setup. So the flight into a node isn't necessarily going back whence it came. Lots of examples of this these days. The idea is that certain lanes are directional and to efficiently serve them. One example is that the airplane in question goes ILN-SEA-ANC-PHX (and then rotates out on a subsequent flight, either to a TPA line or an RFD line). So there actually is no PHX-ANC, only ANC-PHX. From ILN-SEA-ANC, the flight is carrying Prime to Alaska, of which there is a LOT.


Is that ANC-PHX leg carrying anything? or is it mostly just a deadhead repositioning route?
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:22 pm

Empty cans, mostly.
 
Whiplash6
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:46 pm

Will, what’s the significance of this?

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/amaz ... aQwU9MVx4U
 
sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:14 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
Will, what’s the significance of this?

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/amaz ... aQwU9MVx4U


I'd say Amazon is in the very early stages for bringing Amazon Air, or Prime Air in house. Instead for using ACMI carriers they will hire their own employees. I would say in the next 5 years or as contracts expire.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:56 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
Will, what’s the significance of this?

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/amaz ... aQwU9MVx4U


The significance is that it's an idiotic idea that somebody had. Disruptive change in how you operate an airline? Good luck getting that certified. And good luck not having all your pilots represented by the IBT within 6 months of hiring them, so they can hold you hostage every Peak. But Amazon is never afraid to explore new things. Hopefully they give this a hard look and put a stake through its heart ricky-tik. That said, pilots would likely be better off there than at Atlas these days. And if they can pull it off and show me a way to be disruptive in operations in a safety-paramount industry, I will be happy to concede I'm wrong. Me: Why borrow the trouble? It would be in the first sentence of the first lawsuit that is filed the first time they have an incident.
 
Whiplash6
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:28 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Whiplash6 wrote:
Will, what’s the significance of this?

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/amaz ... aQwU9MVx4U


The significance is that it's an idiotic idea that somebody had. Disruptive change in how you operate an airline? Good luck getting that certified. And good luck not having all your pilots represented by the IBT within 6 months of hiring them, so they can hold you hostage every Peak. But Amazon is never afraid to explore new things. Hopefully they give this a hard look and put a stake through its heart ricky-tik. That said, pilots would likely be better off there than at Atlas these days. And if they can pull it off and show me a way to be disruptive in operations in a safety-paramount industry, I will be happy to concede I'm wrong. Me: Why borrow the trouble? It would be in the first sentence of the first lawsuit that is filed the first time they have an incident.



So, you agree it’s a pretty big indicator that they’re going in-house across the board?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:34 pm

Whip: The opposite.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:07 am

N409AZ headed off to ROW for paint on 2/10/20. This was ex-DL N1501P, on which IAI had slapped some non-matching white paint over the green sheet metal following conversion, but which was put into Peak service promptly upon arriving from conversion. She was all -white until now, and needs to be stripped and given a professional paint job. So now she's going to ROW to be properly-decorated.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:21 am

wjcandee wrote:
Whip: The opposite.


PS If they do proceed towards their own certificate, and this posting wasn't referring to the current setup as a "startup cargo airline", the only sensible driver would be that they don't think the incumbent carriers are doing a proper job. Atlas obviously has little interest in raising the quality of its operation to what Amazon wants to see, and even if ATI is functioning stellarly, at what point does it make no sense for either entity to continue to add aircraft at ATI? If I'm Amazon, I don't want to depend on one carrier that I don't control, just as a matter of logic, and if I'm ATSG, my investors don't want too much risk concentrated in one customer. Yes, you can scale down an airline by laying people off, but to go from crewing 8 757s and 27 767s, i.e. 35 aircraft, to crewing 10 aircraft, would be a huge blow. Amazon takes the capital risk on the aircraft, so the risk to ATI is in a readily-adjustable variable cost item, but still.

So maybe one driver is that if one has one's own airline, even if one starts with, say, 5 expansion frames, one has at least the beginnings of the ability to pull the whole thing or at least part of it in house. Still, it's an enormous regulatory burden that, like the line-haul trucking stuff, is better just contracted out. Unless there's nobody competent to contract it to other than ATSG, and you don't want everything in one basket. If it happens, it may well look something like a new carrier taking on some new-build frames to meet their anticipated fleet needs that nobody else can staff or procure aircraft for quickly-enough.

In short, if this happens, you can thank the dufuses in management at Atlas. But it will also be a validation of the idea that operating their own air network is viable or essential over the next couple of decades.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:31 am

Whiplash6 wrote:
Will, what’s the significance of this?

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/amaz ... aQwU9MVx4U


The update now on the article makes it clearer that this really isn’t any change from the status quo.

UPDATE: Subsequent to the publication of this article an Amazon spokeswoman told Air Cargo World, “The role is a network design role and similar to positions we have had since we started our air network five years ago.”
 
mcg
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:53 am

wjcandee wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Whip: The opposite.


PS If they do proceed towards their own certificate, and this posting wasn't referring to the current setup as a "startup cargo airline", the only sensible driver would be that they don't think the incumbent carriers are doing a proper job. Atlas obviously has little interest in raising the quality of its operation to what Amazon wants to see, and even if ATI is functioning stellarly, at what point does it make no sense for either entity to continue to add aircraft at ATI? If I'm Amazon, I don't want to depend on one carrier that I don't control, just as a matter of logic, and if I'm ATSG, my investors don't want too much risk concentrated in one customer. Yes, you can scale down an airline by laying people off, but to go from crewing 8 757s and 27 767s, i.e. 35 aircraft, to crewing 10 aircraft, would be a huge blow. Amazon takes the capital risk on the aircraft, so the risk to ATI is in a readily-adjustable variable cost item, but still.

So maybe one driver is that if one has one's own airline, even if one starts with, say, 5 expansion frames, one has at least the beginnings of the ability to pull the whole thing or at least part of it in house. Still, it's an enormous regulatory burden that, like the line-haul trucking stuff, is better just contracted out. Unless there's nobody competent to contract it to other than ATSG, and you don't want everything in one basket. If it happens, it may well look something like a new carrier taking on some new-build frames to meet their anticipated fleet needs that nobody else can staff or procure aircraft for quickly-enough.

In short, if this happens, you can thank the dufuses in management at Atlas. But it will also be a validation of the idea that operating their own air network is viable or essential over the next couple of decades.


I'm sorry but "dufuses" is misspelled. It's doofuses. (and if this doofus knew how to insert a smiley he would)
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:50 am

USAirKid wrote:
The update now on the article makes it clearer that this really isn’t any change from the status quo.


Well my bad for thinking that a journalist would have at least unofficial on-background confirmation of his story before going to press. The reporter is an idiot. As are his editors. Disgraceful.

Glad I at least recognized in my post the possibility that "startup cargo airline" could mean the current setup.

But as Emily Litella, the Gilda Radner character, used to say...

"Oh...... Nevermind."
Last edited by wjcandee on Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:52 am

MCG wrote:
I'm sorry but "dufuses" is misspelled. It's doofuses. (and if this doofus knew how to insert a smiley he would)


I see where dufus is permitted. But dufuses did look wrong to me. I do like doofus better, so I will use it from now on, and doofuses is waay better.

But I must say I do also like "doofi" for the plural. Sounds erudite, while still saying doofus.

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-p ... oofus.html

And I of course understood the implicit smiley-face! :D
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:44 am

wjcandee wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
More information on Bremerton Port, (also the airport), a 30 acre site with 117K sq ft facility, the same size as many Amazon Delivery Stations. Lots of parking spaces for vans and trucks. Kitsap Sun is reporting, but material is behind their hard and high wall, not everyday wall, subscribers only.


Well, Bremerton made a big pitch for becoming an Amazon HQ location, aggressively-seeking the opportunity and showing a community desire to work with Amazon. A lot of communities that did that ended up being considered by Amazon for other facilities, and it looks like that's what has happened here. Of course, when an article is based entirely on some "expert" saying that something is "definitely Amazon", rather than anything more, I'm always a bit suspicious. The media typically gets everything wrong about what Amazon Logistics is doing, for some reason. Must be something to do with how they evaluate information.


From Kitsap Sun: https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 506739002/

In a site plan review application filed with the city, the warehouse is described as “similar to a FedEx or UPS facility.” Plans call for a concrete building with exterior dock doors for truck-loading and additional overhead doors to load vans, 12,000 square feet of office space, and more than 950 parking stalls for vans. Panattoni estimated in its application that the project would generate about 965 daily vehicle trips on weekdays.


It is located just north of Bremerton National, but interestingly, not in the Port's Industrial Park so the warehouse is Owned. No direct connection to the airport, would need to drive about 1 mile on Hwy 3, a very good two lane 50 MPH highway. For Kitsap County, this site is quite good location as within the City of Bremerton so a lot less hassle and requirements for permitting. This is likely a last mile delivery van facility with excellent road access via the Tacoma Narrows bridge, there are 250K living within a 40 min drive, and the Olympic Peninsula beyond, another 150K further on the same highways. The Industrial Park is a lot of warehousing for the County and the Shipyard, and the big BFI waste transfer facility.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:42 am

Jay: Awesome! Thanks for the info -- glad it's moving forward!
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:32 pm

So I post about Bremerton yesterday, in today's Kitsap Sun. https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 743578002/ Article is behind a stout wall, subscribers only.

BREMERTON — Global e-commerce giant Amazon is the tenant for a proposed warehouse and distribution center under construction near Bremerton National Airport, a company spokeswoman confirmed Wednesday.

The project, a 117,000-square-foot building on Bree Drive east of Highway 3 and just northeast of the airport, is currently being developed by Panattoni Development Company Inc. ALM Bremerton, a company registered in Delaware, purchased the 30-acre property last month from Stan Palmer.

An Amazon spokeswoman said that the building is a “last-mile” delivery facility and will open in 2020. “Last mile” facilities receive packages from larger Amazon warehouses, load them into vans and deliver them to customers. They usually offer “hundreds” of full- and part-time jobs, the spokeswoman said.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:11 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
So I post about Bremerton yesterday, in today's Kitsap Sun. https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 743578002/ Article is behind a stout wall, subscribers only.

BREMERTON — Global e-commerce giant Amazon is the tenant for a proposed warehouse and distribution center under construction near Bremerton National Airport, a company spokeswoman confirmed Wednesday.

The project, a 117,000-square-foot building on Bree Drive east of Highway 3 and just northeast of the airport, is currently being developed by Panattoni Development Company Inc. ALM Bremerton, a company registered in Delaware, purchased the 30-acre property last month from Stan Palmer.

An Amazon spokeswoman said that the building is a “last-mile” delivery facility and will open in 2020. “Last mile” facilities receive packages from larger Amazon warehouses, load them into vans and deliver them to customers. They usually offer “hundreds” of full- and part-time jobs, the spokeswoman said.


The Kitsap Sun let me in on that link; I guess I get 5 free articles a month! Very interesting. With the proximity to the Port and the Airport, water and air deliveries to the facility would be possible. However, looks like it's an AMZL facility that will receive trailers of sorted packages for distribution to driver vans, both from the building description and the number of vans involved. If it were a PSC, then the potential for getting stuff by water and air would make more sense. However, if this goes well, who knows what's in the future? Where's the nearest PSC? Does anybody know?
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:51 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
Will, what’s the significance of this?

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/amaz ... aQwU9MVx4U


I’m surprised the air data scientist position is the one that garnered the attention of this reporter in the first place. Amazon Air has advertised a handful of airline specific positions on their Air job board to date. Some of them mention working with third party carriers, some do not. Senior Program Manager of Air Safety Programs is a position that, to me, is more indicative of where they want to go eventually, imo. Each carrier they are contracting with should already have SMS and a staff in place to support it. Why bother if they don’t have an airline? To be determined, I’m sure.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:14 pm

Amazon spent $30million to buy land adjacent to ILN recently. Doesn't make much sense to me with the CVG hub opening in a few years......thoughts?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:38 pm

$30 million probably buys a lot of land near ILN. Not a clue. I will have to put on my thinking cap. Perhaps recognizing the resilience and work ethic of the folks in Wilmington proper, they're planning a different kind of facility in the area for after the sort migrates over to CVG.
Last edited by wjcandee on Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:46 pm

And they just committed to opening an new 800,000 Sq Ft FC at COS. https://www.kktv.com/content/news/Amazo ... 35431.html
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Whiplash6
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:57 pm

wjcandee wrote:
$30 million probably buys a lot of land near ILN. Not a clue. I will have to put on my thinking cap. Perhaps recognizing the resilience and work ethic of the folks in Wilmington proper, they're planning a different kind of facility in the area for after the sort migrates over to CVG.

I saw an amazon job posting for a mx supervisor in ILN. Could be related.
 
SWF11726
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:10 pm

The worst kept secret in Orange County:

https://www.recordonline.com/news/20200 ... montgomery

Trivia of the day: The Oscar statuettes are made right across the boulevard from there
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:20 am

wjcandee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
So I post about Bremerton yesterday, in today's Kitsap Sun. https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 743578002/ Article is behind a stout wall, subscribers only.

BREMERTON — Global e-commerce giant Amazon is the tenant for a proposed warehouse and distribution center under construction near Bremerton National Airport, a company spokeswoman confirmed Wednesday.

The project, a 117,000-square-foot building on Bree Drive east of Highway 3 and just northeast of the airport, is currently being developed by Panattoni Development Company Inc. ALM Bremerton, a company registered in Delaware, purchased the 30-acre property last month from Stan Palmer.

An Amazon spokeswoman said that the building is a “last-mile” delivery facility and will open in 2020. “Last mile” facilities receive packages from larger Amazon warehouses, load them into vans and deliver them to customers. They usually offer “hundreds” of full- and part-time jobs, the spokeswoman said.


The Kitsap Sun let me in on that link; I guess I get 5 free articles a month! Very interesting. With the proximity to the Port and the Airport, water and air deliveries to the facility would be possible. However, looks like it's an AMZL facility that will receive trailers of sorted packages for distribution to driver vans, both from the building description and the number of vans involved. If it were a PSC, then the potential for getting stuff by water and air would make more sense. However, if this goes well, who knows what's in the future? Where's the nearest PSC? Does anybody know?


Well the Bremerton facility is now on Kiro7 https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/amazon ... J7AXT2EPE/
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:37 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
So I post about Bremerton yesterday, in today's Kitsap Sun. https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 743578002/ Article is behind a stout wall, subscribers only.

BREMERTON — Global e-commerce giant Amazon is the tenant for a proposed warehouse and distribution center under construction near Bremerton National Airport, a company spokeswoman confirmed Wednesday.

The project, a 117,000-square-foot building on Bree Drive east of Highway 3 and just northeast of the airport, is currently being developed by Panattoni Development Company Inc. ALM Bremerton, a company registered in Delaware, purchased the 30-acre property last month from Stan Palmer.

An Amazon spokeswoman said that the building is a “last-mile” delivery facility and will open in 2020. “Last mile” facilities receive packages from larger Amazon warehouses, load them into vans and deliver them to customers. They usually offer “hundreds” of full- and part-time jobs, the spokeswoman said.


I'm still amazed that Kitsap needs its own last mile facility, you'd think it'd just get serviced from Tacoma... That being said there is a lot of wealth on the peninsula, and I'm sure they get their Amazon shopping in.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:00 pm

USAirKid wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
So I post about Bremerton yesterday, in today's Kitsap Sun. https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 743578002/ Article is behind a stout wall, subscribers only.

BREMERTON — Global e-commerce giant Amazon is the tenant for a proposed warehouse and distribution center under construction near Bremerton National Airport, a company spokeswoman confirmed Wednesday.

The project, a 117,000-square-foot building on Bree Drive east of Highway 3 and just northeast of the airport, is currently being developed by Panattoni Development Company Inc. ALM Bremerton, a company registered in Delaware, purchased the 30-acre property last month from Stan Palmer.

An Amazon spokeswoman said that the building is a “last-mile” delivery facility and will open in 2020. “Last mile” facilities receive packages from larger Amazon warehouses, load them into vans and deliver them to customers. They usually offer “hundreds” of full- and part-time jobs, the spokeswoman said.


I'm still amazed that Kitsap needs its own last mile facility, you'd think it'd just get serviced from Tacoma... That being said there is a lot of wealth on the peninsula, and I'm sure they get their Amazon shopping in.


USPS operates delivery vehicles for its routes out of about 1/4 of its Post Offices, they have 4 locations in our county. UPS and FedEX both have delivery van centers in the County, with others to the north in Jefferson and Clallam County. I would estimate the Post office likes their last mile vehicles to travel less than a 20 mile radius if there is sufficient density. UPS and Fedex more like a 30 mile center or a minimum of a dozen truck routes. Safeway was trying to do deliveries from almost every store, not sure how that is working. In Kitsap County for Amazon, every truck going north to Bremerton, Poulsbo, or the Olympic P saves over an hour round trip over the Narrows Bridge toll road each route. Similarly, a Costco has a big warehouse store every 30 miles apart or so, it cycles out its inventory in less than 14 days. Amazon is doing the same except it is delivery instead of takeout. Silverdale is Costco store #13, one of the first and the first to offer gasoline. 18 pumps with a line all day every day, I think they get 3 or 4 tankers a day of gas.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:03 pm

N409AZ, previously all-white, formerly DL1501P, is finished with paint at ROW, and will fly today to RFD and back into service.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:24 am

N409AZ is going to RFD for a gear change at AAR. Not going into service just yet.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:31 pm

autopiloton wrote:
N409AZ is going to RFD for a gear change at AAR. Not going into service just yet.


Thanks for that update! I do remember somebody mentioning that it was going to need a gear change soon; I was overzealous to think it was going back into service!
 
sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:43 pm

Not sue about the time frame for gear change on a 767, but I do know on the 737 its after 10 years. Explained to me by a friend in MX
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:25 pm

wjcandee wrote:
autopiloton wrote:
N409AZ is going to RFD for a gear change at AAR. Not going into service just yet.


Thanks for that update! I do remember somebody mentioning that it was going to need a gear change soon; I was overzealous to think it was going back into service!


Also interesting that it's getting the gear change at AAR. That may suggest that AMES at ILN (owned by ATI's parent, ATSG) is super-busy with organic and profitable contract work. (There is a United 767-300, a Delta 767-300 and an Atlas (DHL) 767-200 at ILN right now for heavy checks, plus all the bridging and conformity that is being done on some CAM aircraft.)

Also interesting to note that while AMES at ILN is doing outside work for others, ATI's sister airline, ABX, has used Haeco Americas at GSO for about half of its heavy checks in the past 3 years, with the rest being done by AMES at ILN. Virtually all the ATI-operated 767-300s have their HMVs done at ILN, which is why it is interesting that this gear change is being done at AAR.
 
7673mech
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:05 am

wjcandee wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
autopiloton wrote:
N409AZ is going to RFD for a gear change at AAR. Not going into service just yet.


Thanks for that update! I do remember somebody mentioning that it was going to need a gear change soon; I was overzealous to think it was going back into service!


Also interesting that it's getting the gear change at AAR. That may suggest that AMES at ILN (owned by ATI's parent, ATSG) is super-busy with organic and profitable contract work. (There is a United 767-300, a Delta 767-300 and an Atlas (DHL) 767-200 at ILN right now for heavy checks, plus all the bridging and conformity that is being done on some CAM aircraft.)

Also interesting to note that while AMES at ILN is doing outside work for others, ATI's sister airline, ABX, has used Haeco Americas at GSO for about half of its heavy checks in the past 3 years, with the rest being done by AMES at ILN. Virtually all the ATI-operated 767-300s have their HMVs done at ILN, which is why it is interesting that this gear change is being done at AAR.


Hangar space is tightening up across the country.
All airlines that do maintenance in Asia are scrambling to find space domestically.
This in turn is affecting what is being done where.
I will point out AAR has the market cornered on gear overhaul so their probably swapping out assets there.

It terms of hiring maintenance professionals in-house- if I hire someone to put my name on their airplanes and depend on them for my core business, why wouldn’t I want some oversight of their operations?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:03 am

7673mech wrote:
It terms of hiring maintenance professionals in-house- if I hire someone to put my name on their airplanes and depend on them for my core business, why wouldn’t I want some oversight of their operations?


Absolutely. And AMES at ILN has carved a nice niche with expertise in keeping vintage 767s flying smoothly. One of the ABX aircraft, N740AX, is line number 6, the oldest 767 still flying, and that one had its last overhaul at ILN. There's a lot of tribal knowledge about 767s in that shop.

Oh, I realize you were talking about Amazon. Of course they need in-house expertise to best manage their leased asset pool. And a CMI contractor is still YOUR contractor; the "M" is for maintenance, but they're doing it on what is effectively YOUR aircraft in a dry-lease situation. So, yeah, you'd better have the ability to understand what they're doing and whether they're doing it well.
 
autopiloton
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:14 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:19 am

ATSGs earnings today said they are still planning on 4 airplanes this year for Amazon plus three more for UPS. The incoming CEO said that they plan to have all of the incoming feed stock spoken for. I guess its anyone's guess as to how many if any of them will be spoken for by Amazon. Does anyone know how many airplanes ATSG plans to take possession of this year?
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8406
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:13 am

N544LA flew from conversion in MMEX to KILN today (3/11/20). Interesting insofar as it had only been there since 12/20/19.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8406
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:22 am

NEW AMAZON SCHEDULE TONIGHT.

New complex at ILN is an example.

ATN3204 ILN-PHX on 762
ABX3113 ILN-CLT on 762
ATN3208 ILN-ATL on 762
GTI3732 ILN-ONT on 763
ATN3429 ILN-JFK on 763 (New Station Alert!!)
GTI3714 ILN-IAH on 763
ATN3401 ILN-SEA on 763
ATN3201 ILN-SFO on 762 (New Station Alert!!) (actually return to a previous station, but new again)
ABX3117 ILN-BWI on 762
GTI3722 ILN-MIA on 763
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8406
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:30 am

Also looks like an AFW-JFK route starting tonight as well (ATI 762).
And an AFW-SFO (ATI 763).
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3098
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:30 pm

with JFK/SFO coming online, any changes to current stations? (ORD coming online soon as well)
 
Delta28L
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:42 pm

wjcandee wrote:
NEW AMAZON SCHEDULE TONIGHT.

New complex at ILN is an example.

ATN3204 ILN-PHX on 762
ABX3113 ILN-CLT on 762
ATN3208 ILN-ATL on 762
GTI3732 ILN-ONT on 763
ATN3429 ILN-JFK on 763 (New Station Alert!!)
GTI3714 ILN-IAH on 763
ATN3401 ILN-SEA on 763
ATN3201 ILN-SFO on 762 (New Station Alert!!) (actually return to a previous station, but new again)
ABX3117 ILN-BWI on 762
GTI3722 ILN-MIA on 763


So what routes are getting dropped in/out of ILN to make room for the new routes?
 
MO11
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:32 pm

CAM signed for N385AM yesterday.
 
UA444
Posts: 2850
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:25 pm

What’s to stop Amazon from just buying one of the airlines they contract with and just use that certificate and ops?
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 829
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:36 pm

UA444 wrote:
What’s to stop Amazon from just buying one of the airlines they contract with and just use that certificate and ops?

Commercial interest, presumably.
now, they can pitch different contractors against each other, cutting costs in the race to the bottom ("whipsaw")
And bear virtually no responsibility nor liability in the process.
Assuming direct ownership reduces their flexibility, while burdening them with responsibilities and potential liabilities.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8406
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:48 pm

UA444 wrote:
What’s to stop Amazon from just buying one of the airlines they contract with and just use that certificate and ops?


Why borrow the trouble? Look at the attitude of a typical airline employee ("race to the bottom", "whipsaw", when in fact Amazon is prioritizing quality, dependable service).
Last edited by wjcandee on Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3098
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:48 pm

UA444 wrote:
What’s to stop Amazon from just buying one of the airlines they contract with and just use that certificate and ops?


can't see that happening as they do not want to deal with unions.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1513
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:40 am

American has started today that all 16 767-300 will be parked by end of May. All 757 will be gone by end of 2021... Any guess who may pick up more 767-300"s ??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
Whiplash6
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:30 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:55 am

wjcandee wrote:
UA444 wrote:
What’s to stop Amazon from just buying one of the airlines they contract with and just use that certificate and ops?


Why borrow the trouble? Look at the attitude of a typical airline employee ("race to the bottom", "whipsaw", when in fact Amazon is prioritizing quality, dependable service).

I couldnt disagree more. If you want quality, you pay for it. You don’t start spreading out to the likes of Southern, Sun Country, and Mesa. It’s 100% a whipsaw. Lack of dependability may shift service here and there as they start up, but just like Delta Connection in the mid 2000’s it will eventually be all about the lowest bidders.

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