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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:22 am

Clancy223 wrote:
Departure time from MIA is 6:39pm EST... connecting cargo from ONT, CVG, BWI, and IAH will be availabl for the SJU run.


That's very interesting. I would have thought that, as I said, they would fill it with local originations. I guess not. Or, more accurately, I guess we'll see.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:31 pm

Just got an alert on Jettip, that SY 737-800 N5261A will be arriving at JFK this afternoon. Wonder what this is about? JFK currently gets 4 flights a day on Amazon 767's.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:49 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
Just got an alert on Jettip, that SY 737-800 N5261A will be arriving at JFK this afternoon. Wonder what this is about? JFK currently gets 4 flights a day on Amazon 767's.


Was just logging on to ask about this myself (and thanks for supporting my JetTip project!) - haven't seen an MSP-JFK flight with the Amazon aircraft before, and it's a 5000 flight number instead of the usual 3000 - suggests to me it's not going to become a regular occurrence, but I'm not sure.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:02 pm

ottergoose wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
Just got an alert on Jettip, that SY 737-800 N5261A will be arriving at JFK this afternoon. Wonder what this is about? JFK currently gets 4 flights a day on Amazon 767's.


Was just logging on to ask about this myself (and thanks for supporting my JetTip project!) - haven't seen an MSP-JFK flight with the Amazon aircraft before, and it's a 5000 flight number instead of the usual 3000 - suggests to me it's not going to become a regular occurrence, but I'm not sure.


No problem man! Love getting those text messages, though one time my wife was like why do you get so many texts overnight:). Perhaps the 5000 series flight number is a positioning flight (JFK the next SY Amazon station?), or an extra section. Does MSP have a large DC nearby?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:28 pm

IIRC SCX 5000 are positioning flights for Amazon. Maybe its going to run out of JFK to CVG, AFW, who knows?? Yes MSP does have a DC south of the MN River, in Shakopee.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:32 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
Perhaps the 5000 series flight number is a positioning flight (JFK the next SY Amazon station?), or an extra section. Does MSP have a large DC nearby?


Not sure what Amazon's footprint around MSP is - we just have a pair of Amazon flights now, MSP-AFW-MSP and MSP-CVG-ONT-MSP.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:59 pm

Just spotted my first ever Prime Air B738F on its way into JFK from MSP as SY5522. They have a couple of 767s a day into Kennedy, but this is my first of their 737s. OK, perhaps NBD for some, but a pulse raiser for me. :-)
 
Bricktop
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:01 pm

ottergoose wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
Just got an alert on Jettip, that SY 737-800 N5261A will be arriving at JFK this afternoon. Wonder what this is about? JFK currently gets 4 flights a day on Amazon 767's.


Was just logging on to ask about this myself (and thanks for supporting my JetTip project!) - haven't seen an MSP-JFK flight with the Amazon aircraft before, and it's a 5000 flight number instead of the usual 3000 - suggests to me it's not going to become a regular occurrence, but I'm not sure.

Haha - I was so excited to see it that I didn't go upthread. I hope it isn't a one off. It looked really sweet as it happens.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:51 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Just spotted my first ever Prime Air B738F on its way into JFK from MSP as SY5522. They have a couple of 767s a day into Kennedy, but this is my first of their 737s. OK, perhaps NBD for some, but a pulse raiser for me. :-)


I really love the blue scheme the 737s have, really wish we'd see a 767 with the same paint.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:24 am

Check this out..Sun Country Airlines 3020 ONT-LAL Sun Country Airlines 3019 LAL-ONT just started today. They will cross paths tonight one going east, the other west
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:33 am

Amazon looks like is planning a massive expansion in the Phoenix area. GYR1 in Goodyear is confirmed to be the first Amazon Robotics Sortable FC in the Phoenix area and second in Arizona (the first being TUS2 in Tucson). New Delivery Stations will also be opening in Avondale, Mesa, Phoenix, Tempe, Surprise, and Chandler (I think the latter replacing DPX3). Phoenix and Goodyear will also get cross-dock facilities, which accept inbound shipments of inventory and redistribute items across the fulfillment network.
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:17 pm

Based on the flight numbers, looks like that Sun Country / Amazon aircraft might be starting a new regular circuit between JFK-AUS-BDL-JFK.

- SCX3023 JFK-AUS
- SCX3017 AUS-BDL

Looks like BDL is already a node in Sun Country's network, with flights today from ONT and CVG. We already knew JFK is new for the 737s, but it looks like they're new to AUS too. Will have to keep tabs on it and see if it's a new triangle route.
 
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B350pilot
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:46 pm

Hey folks. Any updates on the 12 aircraft order/lease, I believe 767s. I have not seen much on that. wondering who will operate them. Thank you !
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:34 pm

B350pilot wrote:
Hey folks. Any updates on the 12 aircraft order/lease, I believe 767s. I have not seen much on that. wondering who will operate them. Thank you !


One of the 12 is already in service with ATI this year. The rest of the aircraft don't begin to enter service until next year. They have not been publicly-assigned to a carrier. One can make some educated guesses as to where they are probably going to go, but no guarantees. Assuming that these are largely going to come from the remaining AA 767s, on which ATSG has options for almost-all, then they will by definition have non-FADEC engines. Atlas prefers FADEC (or the Pratt-equivalent) engines. Probably not a deal-killer if Amazon wanted to put them at Atlas, but if Atlas were getting a CMI contract for more aircraft, they likely would make whatever deal was necessary to get the leasing component as well, as they have with the 767s that they currently-operate for Amazon. But, like I say, it's business, so you take what you can negotiate. That said, if Amazon told ATSG to go procure, say, 5 FADEC-engined 767s and convert them -- as UPS asked them to do -- ATSG would do so -- because it is business.

So these are clues, not definitive indicators.

As to which carrier ATSG will use to fly the airplanes, ABX always has a chance, but it's hard to say. One reason to put some at ABX would be simply that it's a good, reliable carrier with very-experienced pilots. Another reason would be that neither the carrier nor the customer want to have too many eggs in one basket (i.e. ATI), because over the term of a 7-year CMI agreement, all sorts of things can change at carriers. The reason not to give any to ABX is that until there is finally labor peace at ABX, there is always the possibility that the Teamsters will try to use additional Amazon aircraft as leverage in contract negotiations, trying to hold Amazon and the aircraft hostage as they have done before, striking one year during Peak and taking out ads in other years saying that because they are so "tired", Johnny might not get his fire truck for Christmas. To keep the pilots from being "tired", ATSG declared that they would get no more Amazon aircraft, and then started pulling their other aircraft and leasing them elsewhere, so the pilot group wouldn't be overstretched and tired. They also hired a reputed pilot-hater as President. If you are Amazon or ATSG, what you have to ask yourself is whether you really want to take the risk of putting more aircraft there. I think it's a shame, given the quality of the pilot group and the reliability of the operation, but that's the situation. All this said, I wouldn't be surprised if ABX eventually got a couple more Amazon aircraft, whether in this round or not.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:28 pm

ottergoose wrote:
Based on the flight numbers, looks like that Sun Country / Amazon aircraft might be starting a new regular circuit between JFK-AUS-BDL-JFK.

- SCX3023 JFK-AUS
- SCX3017 AUS-BDL

Looks like BDL is already a node in Sun Country's network, with flights today from ONT and CVG. We already knew JFK is new for the 737s, but it looks like they're new to AUS too. Will have to keep tabs on it and see if it's a new triangle route.


Looks like the routing will be JFK-AUS-BDL-LAL-JFK.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:34 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
Looks like the routing will be JFK-AUS-BDL-LAL-JFK.


Quite the circuitous route!
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:44 pm

sunking737 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
wjcandee, I think that SY was sending planes to LQQ for interior mods. Maybe AAR is booked full now with helping Boeing with its AD work, to get all the MAX's ready to return to service. I guess its a wait and see for more Amazon planes at SY.. Remember these 3 words." SUBJECT TO CHANGE" used to be printed on the bottom of all airline schedules



N5227A leased to Amazon/Southern Air on Wednesday (Aug 5).
My source kept showing SY getting more planes then the 10...Straighten out now


N5227A is ferrying on Friday 28 Aug VQQ-RFD as Southern 9434 departing at 2300z/1800 local to enter into active service in the Atlas/Southern Prime network.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:31 pm

Currently most of our packages (but not the sauna or small freezer - LOL) come via USPS. But when the Bremerton Amazon facility will we start seeing Amazon Vans doing that delivery, and might groceries become available?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:51 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Currently most of our packages (but not the sauna or small freezer - LOL) come via USPS. But when the Bremerton Amazon facility will we start seeing Amazon Vans doing that delivery, and might groceries become available?


Here in Queen Creek, I wonder if we will remain assigned to Chandler or if we will be reassigned to Mesa once the new facility opens. The Mesa delivery station will be located over near Falcon Field Airport. The new Chandler station won't be too far from the existing one off Arizona Avenue. Chandler will likely serve Chandler and Gilbert, while Mesa will probably serve Mesa, Apache Junction, and Fountain Hills.
 
n92r03
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:54 pm

N349CM just departed TPA for ROW. FAA shows reg change in process, but Flightaware shows this is a 767 so maybe heading to ROW for paint? I *think* this is one of the frames that has been at the old Pemco hangar but I may be wrong. Thanks-
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:15 pm

n92r03 wrote:
N349CM just departed TPA for ROW. FAA shows reg change in process, but Flightaware shows this is a 767 so maybe heading to ROW for paint? I *think* this is one of the frames that has been at the old Pemco hangar but I may be wrong. Thanks-


This was N384AA. It arrived in TPA from conversion at TLV on 8/8/20. It's without question going to paint at Dean Baldwin Painting at ROW.

I had expected this to go to a particular carrier that I won't name, but it was oddly put into the FAA registry recently as pending a number change to N479AZ, which would have meant it was going to Amazon. As you point out, it has been changed as of 8/18/20 to be pending a number change to N349CM. And now that it is flying under that tail number, that's just a confirmation that it has been changed and the FAA registry online is just running a few days behind. So, I think it will emerge from paint in the livery of the carrier that I originally expected it to be heading to. Or Cargojet, which said it was leasing another 767-300 around now-ish.

This is the sister to N347CM...well it was the one delivered to AA immediately after N347CM was delivered as N383AN. N384AA is LN 512. Delivered August 1993.

So the big question now is: Where is N381AN going? It has been back from conversion longer than N384AA.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:35 pm

Oh they just want to keep us guessing. is this plane all tied Ups..??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:49 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Oh they just want to keep us guessing. is this plane all tied Ups..??


Funny! It's non-FADEC so it won't be going to UPS. The last two of the 5 to UPS should be 304CM (to be 393UP) and 308CM (to be 395UP). The latter is now painted and ready for delivery when AMES is through with it at ILN. The former is still in TLV, and I don't know what's up with it.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:59 pm

N381AN is going to ATI any day now. I wonder if this will be like N360CM that bounced around the Amazon network in some obscure paint job until Amazon was ready for it.

I noticed in pictures that N381AN had all the green covered up with gray when it came back from TLV. So I’d assume it’s going into service before getting Amazon paint. ATI has been known to fly these Frankenstein planes around.


wjcandee wrote:
n92r03 wrote:
N349CM just departed TPA for ROW. FAA shows reg change in process, but Flightaware shows this is a 767 so maybe heading to ROW for paint? I *think* this is one of the frames that has been at the old Pemco hangar but I may be wrong. Thanks-


This was N384AA. It arrived in TPA from conversion at TLV on 8/8/20. It's without question going to paint at Dean Baldwin Painting at ROW.

I had expected this to go to a particular carrier that I won't name, but it was oddly put into the FAA registry recently as pending a number change to N479AZ, which would have meant it was going to Amazon. As you point out, it has been changed as of 8/18/20 to be pending a number change to N349CM. And now that it is flying under that tail number, that's just a confirmation that it has been changed and the FAA registry online is just running a few days behind. So, I think it will emerge from paint in the livery of the carrier that I originally expected it to be heading to. Or Cargojet, which said it was leasing another 767-300 around now-ish.

This is the sister to N347CM...well it was the one delivered to AA immediately after N347CM was delivered as N383AN. N384AA is LN 512. Delivered August 1993.

So the big question now is: Where is N381AN going? It has been back from conversion longer than N384AA.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:38 pm

autopiloton wrote:
N381AN is going to ATI any day now. I wonder if this will be like N360CM that bounced around the Amazon network in some obscure paint job until Amazon was ready for it.

I noticed in pictures that N381AN had all the green covered up with gray when it came back from TLV.


Thanks for the info! I didn't see a photo of that grey paint scheme until I looked for it after you mentioned it.

You're probably correct. ATI could use another spare right now, with 395CM gainfully-employed overseas. 376AN does military flights but also is needed to protect other services, like when it stepped in last week for N399CM, the Aloha Cargo aircraft that ATI presently operates. That a/c was down for a couple of days and 376AN had to protect those flights, then go straight back to military cargo.

So maybe 381AN will even keep its AA tail number, like 376AN has done. And maybe it will go eventually to Amazon, and maybe it won't. The next frame for Amazon (after the remaining two this year which are already sitting at ILN) won't be needed for like 4 months, and there are 4 and maybe 5 frames at TLV right now which could be ready by then. If CAM keeps sending feedstock over to TLV at its current rate of about one per month, that means that 4 or 5 aircraft currently at TLV could be back and leased out to others before Amazon needs its next tail. That said, the number of aircraft that CAM is leasing to Amazon next year is substantial, and ATSG, a cautious operator, may want to be a bit ahead of Amazon's needs, as it generally is.

360CM was kind of a weird situation: After taking the former N7375A fresh from conversion, Air Incheon broke the lease and returned it after about 16 months. ATI could use it at the time, so it went to them and then ultimately to Amazon. ATI painted over the titles but left the weird paint scheme on the rest of the plane while it operated the thing as a spare until it was leased to Amazon and repainted for them, as you point out.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:01 pm

N431AZ is scheduled for a test flight today, still under its tail number rather than a carrier flight number. This is s/n 24632, formerly JA8362, an ex-ANA Cargo BCF which was acquired by CAM already-converted.

Painted at ROW 8/5-8/17/20.

It has been at ILN since November of last year, except for its trip to be painted, so I guess conformity is nearly-complete and it's soon to be put on what we understand will be ATI's certificate to fly for Amazon.

LN285. Delivered to ANA October 1989, converted by ANA into a BCF in 2008. (per planespotters.net).
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:22 pm

N5233A signed over to Amazon/Southern yesterday.
 
dcs921
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:53 pm

wjcandee wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Oh they just want to keep us guessing. is this plane all tied Ups..??


Funny! It's non-FADEC so it won't be going to UPS. The last two of the 5 to UPS should be 304CM (to be 393UP) and 308CM (to be 395UP). The latter is now painted and ready for delivery when AMES is through with it at ILN. The former is still in TLV, and I don't know what's up with it.


It looks like IAI is getting close to finishing up 304CM. They took it on 2+ hour test flight today.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/BDK08-1598521395-adhoc-0
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:32 pm

dcs921 wrote:
It looks like IAI is getting close to finishing up 304CM. They took it on 2+ hour test flight today.


Here's hoping. I actually thought they were almost done when they took it on a test flight literally 5+ months ago -- after being in conversion for over 6 months at that point. This tail has been at TLV since July 14, 2019. So a year plus two weeks. Would be interesting to know what engineering/fabrication needed to be done, which I am making an educated guess is the reason for the inordinate timeframe.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:42 pm

MO11 wrote:
N5233A signed over to Amazon/Southern yesterday.


Thanks! When you say "signed over to" does that mean put on SOO's certificate, or some other transitional or different step (like leased or subleased to them or something)? I only ask because I thought the lessor was GECAS and that Amazon was the lessee, and the CMI operator would be SOO, but somebody at one point told me that my conception of the contractual arrangements wasn't correct, so I'm always curious about details -- and I know you are an expert on the details.

I noticed that it went to VQQ last Friday, so this confirms our expectation that that meant it was going to be flown by Southern.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:42 pm

A security agreement was executed between the three parties (actually a fourth party, the owner trustee). I don't know the actual details, presumably a lease document. I would presume that since hull insurance is being provided by 9S, it would be a party to the agreement.

When CAM leases to ABX or ATI, no paperwork is filed. When CAM leases to Amazon, then an agreement is filed between CAM, the 121, Amazon, and the airplane mortgage holder.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:38 pm

Thanks, MO11. That makes complete sense.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:53 am

wjcandee wrote:
Thanks, MO11. That makes complete sense.


Which brings us to N742AX, where some paperwork was filed between CAM and ABX. But the ATSG 10-Q implies that is going elsewhere (the dreaded "external lease"). As I mentioned, CAM usually doesn't file papers for "internal" leases.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:36 am

Interesting. I was hoping maybe it would go to grow ABX, while 773AX would be the external lease.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:08 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Interesting. I was hoping maybe it would go to grow ABX, while 773AX would be the external lease.


I inferred that from "external customer returned one Boeing 767-200 [first six months of 2020]...being prepped for lease to another external customer later in 2020." N773AX came back in 2019. The table shows two 767-200s available at year end.

CAM bought N393AN from Jetran yesterday.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:11 pm

MO11: It sounds like you are correct. I hadn't focused on the timing of the return to differentiate between the two West Atlantic lease returns.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:56 pm

Okay, so let's talk N304CM. This is/was going to be for UPS, as N393UP. But now I'm confused and wonder whether it's potentially Amazon or Cargojet or something else.

This was an airframe that has been in conversion for over a year, a former LATAM aircraft. The photo from yesterday's test flight that I saw on another site confirms that it has had a lot of skin work done on it. Nobody will ever know when it is painted, of course.

But here's the interesting thing: the Flight systems don't show it leaving TLV, but now it's up as scheduled from SNN to DTW. Could be an error. Or perhaps not. But if it's flying to DTW -- why? Yeah, it isn't uncommon for a CAM-converted aircraft to fly other than to ILN or TPA first, to clear customs. (CVG, usually, for ILN; and the other day FLL for TPA). But DTW? Weird.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:39 pm

Onward to Grissom for paint?
 
dcs921
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:29 am

MO11 wrote:
Onward to Grissom for paint?


Possible. Though the last few that went straight to paint after conversion cleared customs at CVG then flew to GUS.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:43 am

MO11 wrote:
Onward to Grissom for paint?


You're a smart person. The only thing that makes me question that is that they haven't exactly been rushing the UPS conversions. They usually do stuff to them at ILN or TPA before sending to paint, and the same for a while when they're done. 308CM (395UP) sat at TPA for 2 months after conversion, then went to paint at CWF, and has been two weeks at ILN. But I also know that customers can be all "Hurry up!!", "Wait, wait, wait!!", "Hurry up already!!". So who knows.

One other possibility I guess is this: does Delta TechOps (which does a huge chunk of the engine work for ATSG) have any particular engine shop capability in DTW? Would there be some on-wing servicing capability that they might want to take advantage of there? 304CM has FADEC engines, which are not the norm in the CAM fleet.

Assuming, of course, that this isn't some stray mis-entry in the ATC system.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:07 am

So has anyone else noticed how quickly it is picking up at LAL? They're up to SIX daily flights!

As of yesterday and today, there are 2 daily 767-300s (both on ATI) and 4 daily 737-800s (3 SCX and 1 SOO). Here are the flights:

ARRIVALS:

SCX3018 from BDL
ATN3462 from CVG
SCX3024 from AFW
ATN3453 from SMF
SOO3631 from PDX
SCX3020 from ONT

DEPARTURES:

SCX3025 to AFW
SOO3632 to RFD
ATN3461 to ILN
SCX3022 to JFK
ATN3463 to SFO
SCX3019 to ONT

I'm too tired to track the tails to determine the aircraft rotation, but maybe I will do that later.

Okay, couldn't resist a couple. One of the ATI aircraft comes in from SMF and then flies out to ILN. The other ATI 763 flies in from CVG and flies out to SFO.

One SCX aircraft comes in from BDL and flies out to ONT. One comes in from AFW and flies out to JFK. One comes in from ONT and flies out to AFW.

The SOO routing is (obviously) in from PDX, out to RFD.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:52 am

Interesting that it appears that SCX is no longer doing the run to SJU. It’s only the Atlas flight out of MIA...from what I can tell. I guess I assumed that they would keep both routes. But I can see how that would be overkill.

I’m hearing that ATI will be starting an ILN-AUS-SCK run. Seems to be the reverse of what Atlas does now. Substituting ONT for SCK. Interesting to see ATI going back to SCK.

I also heard that they plan to add a couple “spares” to the fleet in order to have tails for UPS flying during peak. Those planes would then later go to paint and conformity for Amazon after the new year. So that would explain N381AN.
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:59 pm

Amazon bought C-FOGJ from WestJet on Thursday (to be N503AZ)
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9184
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:13 pm

MO11 wrote:
Amazon bought C-FOGJ from WestJet on Thursday (to be N503AZ)


So this one is totally-weird.

Amazon is acquiring its own aircraft now? Do you know what Amazon entity bought it? (The FAA only shows that serial number as a pending import under that tail number, with the entity left blank.)

[I'm not implying that you're incorrect. I am absolutely-sure that you ARE correct. The "?"s are intended to express surprise, ask actual and not rhetorical questions, and indicate departures from the previous norm.]

And then they flew it to LCY???

This is a retired Qantas aircraft that went to Westjet after retirement instead of to CAM. It was VH-OGJ at Qantas, and continued a similar tail number on registration in Canada (C-FOGJ). It's a sister of a lot of the CAM conversions, which include VH-OGA, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, O, S and V.

So what happens now will be interesting. It might be informed by the following factoids:

(1) I can't think of an ATSG aircraft that has been worked on at LCY. It's a HAECO Americas facility. (This all used to be called TIMCO before being acquired by the Hong Kong company.)
(2) However, ATSG has been using HAECO Americas' facility at GSO for heavy maintenance on some of the ABX Air fleet for several years (although not the ATI fleet), including some of the 767-200s being leased to Amazon and operated by ABX. N744AX is at GSO right now, in fact, and N774AX was there in April/May of this year.
(3) This aircraft was acquired from Qantas by BCC, which appears to have leased it and its retired-Qantas sisters C-FOGT (VH-OGI), C-FWAD (VH-OGL), and C-GOGN (VH-OGN) (all also parked) to Westjet. So the trip to LCY on 8/19/20 could have been related to the lease termination (or for inspection) prior to sale.
(4) And this whole thing could herald a group of 4 sisters joining 13 of their former sisters at ATSG. Or not.
(5) The "AZ" suffix has been used by the Amazon aircraft leased to it by ATSG/CAM and operated by ATI. AAWW's Titan/Andromeda leasing companies chose 4 numerals and an A instead.
(6) All the retired Qantas 767-300s aircraft use non-FADEC engines. AAWW prefers FADEC. ATSG doesn't care. But for all we know, of course, we could be looking at an entirely-new 767 operator, although the possibility of that seems remote, as it is effectively-unnecessary and overly-complicated. Unless, of course, the aircraft is going to be used in Europe or the like.
(7) The aircraft is presently-unconverted. We will see where it goes for conversion. ATSG has used IAI exclusively. Does it make sense for Amazon to take on the job of managing a conversion itself?
(8) As noted by the new President of UPS, the companies that perform contract MRO for the passenger airlines are hurting right now, and are indeed offering powerful incentives to depart from your norm and use them. Accordingly, UPS and other companies that are still flying are opportunistically taking advantage of the discounts, which make it worthwhile to do some maintenance earlier than the last-possible-cycle. So there is some dislocation as among the usual providers.
(9) That said, if this aircraft were going to ATSG to operate or CAM to convert, there's no reason it couldn't be worked on at TPA. AMES-Tampa (formerly PEMCO) has to be seeing a much-lower volume of Frontier Airlines business these days, and so would seem to have the necessary capacity. But who knows. ATSG is still sending ABX aircraft to HAECO at GSO, even in the pandemic.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9184
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:48 pm

So N304CM's flight SNN-DTW today was "cancelled". Now seems to be rescheduled for Monday. Still no record of the move from TLV to SNN, and no photos apparently out there of it at SNN. Usually, the Frankenships -- which this one clearly is -- get photographed at SNN and posted quickly online. Maybe it is or will be on its way to SNN shortly. Or maybe it is in fact there, but broken already. The SNN-Airport official arrivals page only shows airlines, which is unhelpful when the ship is moving under its own tail number.
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:34 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Amazon bought C-FOGJ from WestJet on Thursday (to be N503AZ)


So this one is totally-weird.

Amazon is acquiring its own aircraft now? Do you know what Amazon entity bought it? (The FAA only shows that serial number as a pending import under that tail number, with the entity left blank.)


Paper says "Amazon.com Services LLC", which exactly what shows up on the lease papers for the other 767s and 737s. If you notice, Amazon has reserved N521AZ, N563AZ, N569AZ, and N571AZ. CAM still has a couple of reservations in the N4xxAZ range.
 
bmibaby737
Posts: 1641
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:37 pm

wjcandee wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Amazon is acquiring its own aircraft now? Do you know what Amazon entity bought it? (The FAA only shows that serial number as a pending import under that tail number, with the entity left blank.)


The registration was reserved by "AMAZON.COM SERVICES LLC" with address of: C/O CROWE & DUNLEVY 324 N ROBINSON AVE STE 100 OKLAHOMA CITY OK 73102-6417
Registration was reserved back on 10 July 2020

FYI, per FAA Amazon.com Services LLC has also reserved:

N521AZ
N563AZ
N569AZ
N571AZ

("Amazon Logistics Inc" have 148 registrations reserved, all NxxxPA - Edit: FYI these are reservations for the delivery drones)

Cargo Aircraft Management currently have the following reserved:

N321CM
N327CM
N349CM
N393UP
N491AZ
N499AZ
Last edited by bmibaby737 on Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9184
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:40 pm

Thanks, guys! Those PA registrations are pretty-remarkable. Crowe & Dunleavy is a large law firm based in Oklahoma, and one of the things it does it these kind of aircraft registration reservations for clients.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bmibaby737
Posts: 1641
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:42 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Thanks, guys! Those PA registrations are pretty-remarkable.


These are for all the drones
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9184
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:45 pm

bmibaby737 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Thanks, guys! Those PA registrations are pretty-remarkable.


These are for all the drones


Ah. Got it.

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