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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:41 pm

Just noticed that the flight from Canada to LCQ for C-FOGJ was under a Westjet flight number, so the delivery to LCQ could well be associated with the termination of the BCC lease to Westjet.

Thinking it through more, at Amazon's cost of capital, it actually makes sense at some point for them to acquire some frames directly, rather than putting some measure of profit in the leasing company's pocket, and the leasing company's cost of capital is going to be higher than Amazon's. The downside is that it's harder to walk away from the "experiment" when you own the asset, but as a practical matter these are finance leases that don't give Amazon that much more protection and they're on the hook now for longer and longer periods until the lease return. And Amazon has committed so much capital to other aspects of the project that it does make some sense for it to own directly a portion of its fleet, like DHL does -- just as long as it properly hedges (insures) the additional potential liability risk that comes from directly-owning the asset. Regardless of who owns the aircraft, I do believe that there are a lot of reasons that Amazon should not itself own and operate an airline, that CMI agreements with excellent carriers is the way to go. As to contracting for and managing an aircraft conversion, I still think that that is something that you want an experienced partner to participate in, regardless of the conversion vendor.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:48 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Just noticed that the flight from Canada to LCQ for C-FOGJ was under a Westjet flight number, so the delivery to LCQ could well be associated with the termination of the BCC lease to Westjet.


They weren't leased.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:06 pm

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Just noticed that the flight from Canada to LCQ for C-FOGJ was under a Westjet flight number, so the delivery to LCQ could well be associated with the termination of the BCC lease to Westjet.


They weren't leased.


Okay. BCC (specifically, "BCC Equipment Leasing Corporation") bought them from Qantas, and it appeared that they were leased to Westjet from what I saw. If Westjet then or later bought them from BCC, so be it. So no more speculation by me. We will just see what happens when it happens.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:07 am

So FWIW, ATSG is leasing 11 more 767-300s to Amazon in calendar year 2021.

There are 17 prime numbers between 400-500. ATSG is currently using 7 of them (409, 419, 431, 433, 443, 449, 457) on aircraft in service (or about to be in service) at ATI. That leaves 401, 421, 439, 461, 463, 467, 479, 487, 491 and 499.

ATSG has 491AZ and 499AZ reserved, but that's it. Of the remaining numbers, 401, 439, 461, 463, 467, and 487 are in use, largely by the State of Arizona.. 421AZ and 479AZ, might be available. So that's only four out of potentially-11 that ATSG may need before we get into the 500s.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:15 am

wjcandee wrote:
So FWIW, ATSG is leasing 11 more 767-300s to Amazon in calendar year 2021. bmibaby and MO11 were kind enough to list the regs that have been reserved so far. It totals 10, plus the one for the aircraft now at LCY. Of course, Amazon can reserve as many more as they want, but I thought that was interesting. I don't know the significance of it.


You keep on using LCY as the destination. Why the hell are they sending work to London City Airport, where I’m pretty sure a 767 isn’t allowed to land anyway?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:22 am

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So FWIW, ATSG is leasing 11 more 767-300s to Amazon in calendar year 2021. bmibaby and MO11 were kind enough to list the regs that have been reserved so far. It totals 10, plus the one for the aircraft now at LCY. Of course, Amazon can reserve as many more as they want, but I thought that was interesting. I don't know the significance of it.


You keep on using LCY as the destination. Why the hell are they sending work to London City Airport, where I’m pretty sure a 767 isn’t allowed to land anyway?


Because I am a moron. It is LCQ. Lake City, in Florida, rather than London City, in England.

I revised the post that I could change and took out the reference anyway, because my reasoning was based on faulty premises.

Bottom line is that those 5 reservations for Amazon corporate could herald 5 that they ultimately acquire themselves, perhaps to include all 4 of the Westjet 763s in the series of retired-Qantas aircraft that ATSG largely acquired and converted.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:00 am

I should also observe that 5 is a nice round number. And if that's a plan, and it's a plan underway concurrently with the 11 coming from CAM, that might be more than reasonably could be onboarded by even the ATSG carriers in one calendar year. Which might open up other interesting possibilities.

Or not. I could see some other permutations that would allow ATSG to staff more than 11, just not all at ATI. And of course there is Atlas.

But still. Hmmm...

Just when it seems to be getting routine, it isn't. How fun!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:02 pm

It will be interesting to see what organized labor and the media manage to conjure out of the facts underlying the above discussion. Confident that the wild-A speculation will, once again, be wildly-inaccurate. This is merely an incremental step, but it's a significant one.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:12 pm

FWIW, I think that N304CM is still at TLV. There were some emissions that suggest that it was moving around the airport this morning, Israel time.
 
autopiloton
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:30 am

So this might be a stupid question..but if Amazon are buying their own..are these five separate from the 12 that ATSG announced? Or could the 5 just be a part of the 12? An agreement where ATSG agrees to CMI on the 5 Amazon owned with the other 7 being an ACMI agreement? Is that possible? I know the initial press released said 12 CAM leased aircraft, but could that have been reworked?

As wjcandee mentioned...if these are going to be 5 additional aircraft to be added I am curious as the time frame. Are they trying to add them all in 2021? That's 17 aircraft in one year...would be difficult for one airline to absorb. But I guess if you need to ramp up a pilot force, now is the best time as ever in the last few years. Plenty of 767 sims available and pilots. Probably the only thing lacking would be instructors and FAA staff to administer the necessary checks and observations.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:27 am

Autopiloton: Not a stupid question. There is definitely a contract for 12 to be leased from CAM, of which one was delivered this year, and 11 are to be delivered next year. Notably, it has not been said anywhere publicly what carrier will fly them, but to date the 767-300s leased to Amazon by CAM have been flown by ATI. With enough advance planning, ATI could absorb one per month.

As to the number that Amazon is presently planning to own itself, nobody really has any idea. Maybe this is a one-off experiment. Maybe a longstanding plan has been for Amazon to buy its own planes after a certain point, for the reasons I speculated about upthread, and this purchase marks the turning point. The whole history of Amazon Air has involved Amazon hiring experts in the field to get started, including building and handling pallets and cans, ground handling, marshalling, etc, on a contract basis, and then evaluating to what extent if any it wants to do it itself. Originally, ATSG's LGSTX did everything, even hiring and managing other vendors at the stations it did not run itself. Now, there's a mix of vendors and organic Amazon throughout the system in various capacities. One can look to the organic Amazon ground line-haul and delivery network and notice that a similar thing happened there, and, over there, it's not uncommon to see Amazon invest the capital to buy equipment (trailers, rail/ocean containers, local delivery vans, etc.) and then hire local vendors to operate them, or sell/lease them to local vendors.

So it makes sense that rather than involve leasing companies to provide a finite risk level to its capital contracts (leases), at some point it might decide to just outright own the aircraft. Maybe Amazon has developed the in-house expertise to contract for and manage the conversions, aircraft selection, price negotiations, etc., or maybe they continue to use a CAM or Titan or similar to provide that expertise on a contract basis. There are plenty of companies out there who will do that -- including some household-name players who also might be interested in selling some new-builds, too. It likely depends in part on whether they plan to buy another couple of 763s -- or another 30. Probably doesn't make sense to bring the expertise in-house for 2, probably does make sense for 30.

I just picked 5 out of the air because we know they have 5 tail numbers reserved in their own name. But that could be as simple as wanting to bring the adminstration and control of that sort-of-intellectual-property in-house. But if Amazon is going to buy 5 used 763s itself and manage their conversion itself, then sure as shootin' there's a hope or expectation at Amazon Air that they would in fact be doing way more, and plans in place to do so if authorized. After using ATSG and AAWW to handle basically 50 763 conversions on a turnkey basis, plus 12 other leases of 762s, there's no particular reason to change horses to do just a few final 767s -- unless the vendors are getting stupid-greedy. So to me this tends to be a signal that the option/expectation of signfiicant growth in the conversion fleet is there, and quite possibly and specifically in the 767 fleet.

And if you're in the market for used widebodies, Covid-19 just gave you the opportunity to convince some carriers that maybe they would like to trade uncertainty for certainty and unload a bunch of aircraft at a price favorable to you. I mean, now's the time to do it. And few companies have the access to capital to take advantage of it the way Amazon does.

You asked whether the aircraft at issue could be part of the contract with ATSG for 12. Absolutely. It could be that Amazon expected to contract for 12 to be sourced, purchased and converted by CAM, and then thought they would like to go in another direction. Is that permitted under the contract? I haven't seen it, but wouldn't be completely-surprised to see some kind of fair-to-both-sides provision in there that would provide a mechanism for something like that. Even if the contract doesn't permit it, would you renegotiate with a customer that you're leasing 32+ aircraft to, and your other subsidiaries are operating under CMI agreements that are terminable for convenience by Amazon on a couple of months' notice? Yes, you would. But that said, an EWAG is that that's not what's happening here. Something else is afoot. How revolutionary, we just don't know. Yet.
 
dcs921
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:03 pm

wjcandee wrote:
FWIW, I think that N304CM is still at TLV. There were some emissions that suggest that it was moving around the airport this morning, Israel time.


N304CM is still at TLV. It was on another test flight today as BDK18. Evidently it did not pass its initial test flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/BDK18-1598877081-adhoc-0
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:17 pm

dcs921 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
FWIW, I think that N304CM is still at TLV. There were some emissions that suggest that it was moving around the airport this morning, Israel time.


N304CM is still at TLV. It was on another test flight today as BDK18. Evidently it did not pass its initial test flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/BDK18-1598877081-adhoc-0


There ya go. When we saw that it (at least in theory) was going to go from SNN to DTW, I asked whether it might be going to DL TechOps for some kind of engine work at DTW. Now that it seems that it is going to go to ATL instead (again, based on flight plans being loaded well in advance), does anybody have any thoughts or actual info about this theory?
 
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yochai
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:52 pm

304CM will go out on delivery to SNN tomorrow morning at 0800Z
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:17 pm

yochai wrote:
304CM will go out on delivery to SNN tomorrow morning at 0800Z


Thanks, Yochai!! Any scoop on engine issues or why it might be going from SNN to ATL rather than somewhere else?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:50 pm

C-GOGN flew from YYC to LCQ today. That's two of 4. Nothing yet on the FAA web site. s/n 25576. Delivered to Qantas August 1994.

Also, the WSJ published today that Amazon was just granted a Part 135 Certificate, for the drones.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:22 pm

wjcandee wrote:
C-GOGN flew from YYC to LCQ today. That's two of 4. Nothing yet on the FAA web site. s/n 25576. Delivered to Qantas August 1994.

Also, the WSJ published today that Amazon was just granted a Part 135 Certificate, for the drones.


How soon before we hear of some well meaning, ok idiot, starts shooting drones down because they thought it was a UFO, or giant flying bug...Go ahead and laugh you know I'm right.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:45 am

It seems like a somewhat-Utopian world in which that would work without problems, or at least a world that is Not New York City. I occasionally need to remind myself that there are still places in America where you can leave your doors unlocked, and we can always hope that there will someday be more of them again.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:22 pm

wjcandee wrote:
It seems like a somewhat-Utopian world in which that would work without problems, or at least a world that is Not New York City. I occasionally need to remind myself that there are still places in America where you can leave your doors unlocked, and we can always hope that there will someday be more of them again.


I lived in a rural Red county for the better part of 50 years. People knew their neighbors well. But ... For most it meant you knew your place was safe, you could ask someone to check the house and see all was OK. But for others it meant they could never all leave because they knew their neighbors, bummer.

Drones may be particularly good for our Kitsap county, there are hundreds of waterfront homes down at the bottom of a steep hundred+ foot elevation driveway, often only one home per driveway. Amazon must lose a bundle putting packages on those door steps.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:16 pm

Well, it's official. Amazon is the registered owner of N503AZ. With a second retired Qantas/Westjet frame joining it yesterday at LCQ.

Always trust MO11 -- he knows of what he speaks:

https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquir ... rTxt=503az


FAA REGISTRY
N-Number Inquiry Results
N503AZ is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight


Aircraft Description
Serial Number 25274 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 08/31/2020
Model 767-338 Expiration Date 08/31/2023
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 51442455
MFR Year None Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A6452D
Type Registration LLC Fractional Owner NO
Registered Owner
Name AMAZON.COM SERVICES LLC
Street ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT
410 TERRY AVE N
City SEATTLE State WASHINGTON
County KING Zip Code 98109-5210
Country UNITED STATES
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:51 am

So it looks as if N304CM is going to end up at LCQ. Interesting.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:08 am

N5227A (Southern Air's 7th 737-800 for Amazon) flew from induction at VQQ to RFD on 9/1/20.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:18 am

N304CM is en route to SNN from TLV as of 0745Z on 9/2/20. Expect TLV-SNN-ATL-LCQ.

This aircraft has been at TLV since 7/14/19, so a year and 6 weeks. Most of the skin work and cargo door installation seemed to have been done by December 2019. Not sure what the additional 9 months was for. Ex LATAM CC-CZT. LN 699. Del 4/29/98 to LAN Chile.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:20 am

wjcandee wrote:
N5227A (Southern Air's 7th 737-800 for Amazon) flew from induction at VQQ to RFD on 9/1/20.


First revenue flight is today (2 Sept) - 9S3604 RFD-TPA departing at 5:25pm local time... flying the RFD-TPA-IAH-RFD circit for the next few days.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:16 pm

The lease agreement for N431AZ went through yesterday.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:10 pm

wjcandee wrote:
It seems like a somewhat-Utopian world in which that would work without problems, or at least a world that is Not New York City. I occasionally need to remind myself that there are still places in America where you can leave your doors unlocked, and we can always hope that there will someday be more of them again.

Will never forget delivering in the bustling town of Park River, ND. I had 150 stops that day, it was snowing and about -15F. The driver that normally delivered the town and I met up for breakfast and he told me he delivers every stop through the front door. Just open the door and leave it directly to the right of the door inside. I thought he was crazy.

With the exception of the 10 or so stops where the homeowner was present, I entered 140 homes that day. Every single door was unlocked. As someone born and raised in Connecticut, I was absolutely shocked.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:12 pm

sunking737 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
C-GOGN flew from YYC to LCQ today. That's two of 4. Nothing yet on the FAA web site. s/n 25576. Delivered to Qantas August 1994.

Also, the WSJ published today that Amazon was just granted a Part 135 Certificate, for the drones.


How soon before we hear of some well meaning, ok idiot, starts shooting drones down because they thought it was a UFO, or giant flying bug...Go ahead and laugh you know I'm right.

Oh its going to happen alright. There are plenty of people who don’t like delivery trucks coming down their driveway, never mind a drone.

The scariest part of delivering rural areas at night is you don’t know if you’re going to be greeted by a friendly smile or a shot gun
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
CALMSP
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:27 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So has anyone else noticed how quickly it is picking up at LAL? They're up to SIX daily flights!

As of yesterday and today, there are 2 daily 767-300s (both on ATI) and 4 daily 737-800s (3 SCX and 1 SOO). Here are the flights:

ARRIVALS:

SCX3018 from BDL
ATN3462 from CVG
SCX3024 from AFW
ATN3453 from SMF
SOO3631 from PDX
SCX3020 from ONT

DEPARTURES:

SCX3025 to AFW
SOO3632 to RFD
ATN3461 to ILN
SCX3022 to JFK
ATN3463 to SFO
SCX3019 to ONT

I'm too tired to track the tails to determine the aircraft rotation, but maybe I will do that later.

Okay, couldn't resist a couple. One of the ATI aircraft comes in from SMF and then flies out to ILN. The other ATI 763 flies in from CVG and flies out to SFO.

One SCX aircraft comes in from BDL and flies out to ONT. One comes in from AFW and flies out to JFK. One comes in from ONT and flies out to AFW.

The SOO routing is (obviously) in from PDX, out to RFD.


Did they already close TPA?
 
Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:39 pm

CALMSP wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So has anyone else noticed how quickly it is picking up at LAL? They're up to SIX daily flights!

As of yesterday and today, there are 2 daily 767-300s (both on ATI) and 4 daily 737-800s (3 SCX and 1 SOO). Here are the flights:

ARRIVALS:

SCX3018 from BDL
ATN3462 from CVG
SCX3024 from AFW
ATN3453 from SMF
SOO3631 from PDX
SCX3020 from ONT

DEPARTURES:

SCX3025 to AFW
SOO3632 to RFD
ATN3461 to ILN
SCX3022 to JFK
ATN3463 to SFO
SCX3019 to ONT

I'm too tired to track the tails to determine the aircraft rotation, but maybe I will do that later.

Okay, couldn't resist a couple. One of the ATI aircraft comes in from SMF and then flies out to ILN. The other ATI 763 flies in from CVG and flies out to SFO.

One SCX aircraft comes in from BDL and flies out to ONT. One comes in from AFW and flies out to JFK. One comes in from ONT and flies out to AFW.

The SOO routing is (obviously) in from PDX, out to RFD.


Did they already close TPA?


Not officially. They still have flights from BWI and CVG
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:41 pm

CALMSP wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
So has anyone else noticed how quickly it is picking up at LAL? They're up to SIX daily flights!

As of yesterday and today, there are 2 daily 767-300s (both on ATI) and 4 daily 737-800s (3 SCX and 1 SOO). Here are the flights:

ARRIVALS:

SCX3018 from BDL
ATN3462 from CVG
SCX3024 from AFW
ATN3453 from SMF
SOO3631 from PDX
SCX3020 from ONT

DEPARTURES:

SCX3025 to AFW
SOO3632 to RFD
ATN3461 to ILN
SCX3022 to JFK
ATN3463 to SFO
SCX3019 to ONT

I'm too tired to track the tails to determine the aircraft rotation, but maybe I will do that later.

Okay, couldn't resist a couple. One of the ATI aircraft comes in from SMF and then flies out to ILN. The other ATI 763 flies in from CVG and flies out to SFO.

One SCX aircraft comes in from BDL and flies out to ONT. One comes in from AFW and flies out to JFK. One comes in from ONT and flies out to AFW.

The SOO routing is (obviously) in from PDX, out to RFD.


Did they already close TPA?


I see Atlas/Southern 767/737 flights loaded through mid-January at TPA. Also, looks like MIA-SJU-MIA will become TPA-SJU-TPA on the 767 and TPA-SCK on the 767 will become LAL-SCK on the 737.
 
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BOEING777EK
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:24 pm

N431AZ, the next Amazon Boeing 763F former NH frame, was ferried from ILN-PHX, to enter service earlier today.

Also, N308CM, the next 767 due for UPS, has completed a 2-hour test flight under it's UPS registry N395UP. It is safe to assume that, this frame will enter UPS duty in the next couple of days.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:27 pm

Thank you for all the excellent information! So interesting!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:32 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
N431AZ, the next Amazon Boeing 763F former NH frame, was ferried from ILN-PHX, to enter service earlier today.

Also, N308CM, the next 767 due for UPS, has completed a 2-hour test flight under it's UPS registry N395UP. It is safe to assume that, this frame will enter UPS duty in the next couple of days.


When it flies under a UPS flight number, then you'll know it's on their certificate.

I had been watching 431AZ to see if/when it moved, since it was supposed to enter service around 9/1. You saw the movement before I did!

Incidentally, N431AZ is the first BCF on ATI's roster. N433AZ will be the second. (As you all know, they were acquired by CAM already-converted from ANA Cargo.)
 
autopiloton
Posts: 39
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:11 am

I’m hearing that ATI will start SFO-ANC-ORD flights soon. So that would make two ANC flights.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:22 pm

N304CM is now at LCQ. If it is to be in service by 10/1, it shouldn't spend too long here and will get its tail out pronto to the painting contractor. Takes exactly 2 weeks to paint a 767 at either Dean Baldwin or Landlocked Aviation, the two contractors that ATSG uses.

Meanwhile, N395UP (formerly N308CM) just flew to SDF under a UPS callsign, so it has been delivered.

N768AX, one of the six ABX-operated 767-200s leased to Amazon, which was all-white, has been stickered into a very-retro Airborne Express livery to celebrate 40 years of ABX Air's heritage, and it looks FANTASTIC. Just flew from CVG-CLT. I really like how it looks.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:05 pm

Meanwhile, N503AZ is planning to fly from LCQ to PHL tonight. I guess we'll see what we can divine from just watching its movements.
 
WesYan
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:41 am

wjcandee wrote:
Meanwhile, N503AZ is planning to fly from LCQ to PHL tonight. I guess we'll see what we can divine from just watching its movements.


Any clue why it is going to PHL. PHL never got Amazon Air flights.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 am

WesYan wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Meanwhile, N503AZ is planning to fly from LCQ to PHL tonight. I guess we'll see what we can divine from just watching its movements.


Any clue why it is going to PHL. PHL never got Amazon Air flights.


That airplane still has seats in it.....
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:45 am

MO11 wrote:
WesYan wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Meanwhile, N503AZ is planning to fly from LCQ to PHL tonight. I guess we'll see what we can divine from just watching its movements.


Any clue why it is going to PHL. PHL never got Amazon Air flights.


That airplane still has seats in it.....


Unless they pulled them in LCQ over the last two weeks, but yeah. It has yet to be converted into an actual freighter. Assuming that that's why Amazon bought it.

MO11, you would know better than I, but I agree that PHL seems like an odd destination. It's a UPS hub, of course, but it doesn't have any contractors there that have been heretofore known to be used on the Amazon fleet or on any Atlas, ABX, or ATI aircraft. I guess it could be a waypoint on a trip overseas, and it's a place the contract ferry pilots' company likes to use for crews, but otherwise I'm clueless. (E.g. I know JetTest OMS is in Cherry Hill, but that seems like a stretch.) Which is why I was thinking we would just have to figure it out from the movements.
 
autopiloton
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:14 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:14 am

Maybe it's going to be Jeff's new private jet. He's going to need to get between the two Amazon headquarters. Why not go in style and comfort. He did just become 80 billion dollars richer. Plus considering his public disputes with Trump..he can one up him and get a 767. ;)
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9235
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:33 am

So 503AZ parked in an interesting spot at PHL: the South Apron, which is a little new-ish square of asphalt just north of the intersection of taxiway A and taxiway D, east of D. It's big enough maybe to hold two 767s and is lined for say 3 narrowbodies. There's nothing really around there. It's right next to where the snowplows park; the FBO and its ramp is somewhat east of the South Apron and probably closed at this hour. So this doesn't really give us a clue.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9235
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:43 am

autopiloton wrote:
Maybe it's going to be Jeff's new private jet. He's going to need to get between the two Amazon headquarters. Why not go in style and comfort. He did just become 80 billion dollars richer. Plus considering his public disputes with Trump..he can one up him and get a 767. ;)


Great idea! His new belle is a pilot, after all. But I've gotta figure there a few very-nice 767 VIP aircraft already outfitted out there for purchase. To go from this thing to a Sultan-quality VIP jet would take well over a year, if not two or more. Besides, unless one has a whole lot of friends that one likes to drag along, the G650 that he was flying not too long ago is pretty dang versatile. When you're going to party in the Hamptons, you like to be able to fly right into East Hampton Airport. And then have others envy your ride when it's parked in the prestige spot outside the FBO.
 
User avatar
yochai
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:36 am

N503AZ is scheduled for arrival in TLV on Sunday, pending delays, so seems like Amazon will also do its freighter conversions in TLV.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9235
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:15 am

yochai wrote:
N503AZ is scheduled for arrival in TLV on Sunday, pending delays, so seems like Amazon will also do its freighter conversions in TLV.


Thanks, Yochai!! You eliminated the mystery!
 
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ChrisNH38
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:57 pm

Where besides BDL do these planes serve in New England? There are distribution centers seemingly surrounding MHT (most still in development) so that would seem to be a natural.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9235
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:47 pm

N385AM, which CAM purchased on 3/11/20, is scheduled to be on its way to ILN today from storage in ROW. Presumably it will be heading to TLV inside of a week or so, given that CAM is now sending them over at a rate of about one per month, as they have 11 to deliver to Amazon in calendar year 2021.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:28 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Where besides BDL do these planes serve in New England? There are distribution centers seemingly surrounding MHT (most still in development) so that would seem to be a natural.

It’s just BDL. There aren’t any FCs north of BDL. There are only delivery stations and sort centers.

BDL is actually a pretty central location to serve much of New England. It’s a pretty easy run to most of New England minus northern VT/NH and Maine.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
enplaned
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:05 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Where besides BDL do these planes serve in New England? There are distribution centers seemingly surrounding MHT (most still in development) so that would seem to be a natural.

It’s just BDL. There aren’t any FCs north of BDL. There are only delivery stations and sort centers.

BDL is actually a pretty central location to serve much of New England. It’s a pretty easy run to most of New England minus northern VT/NH and Maine.


Depends whether you mean serve on the inbound or outbound.

On outbound traffic, any New England (and even eastern NYState) FC is a potential candidate to provide packages to BDL for outbound Amazon flights.

In inbound traffic, any New England and eastern NY State sort center or delivery station is a candidate to accept material coming from inbound BDL flights. So if there are some of those around MHT, sure, they could possibly be taking material from Amazon Air flights inbound to BDL.

Whether links exist between the BDL gateway and specific nearby FCs, SCs and DSes is up to the Amazon Air planning folks in conjunction with their colleagues in other relevant departments (e.g. linehaul, sort centers, Amazon Flex, etc)
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2286
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:43 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I frankly didn't expect that there would be that much backhaul on the Amazon Hawaii flights. Hawaii is basically an airfreight destination, and whether it's Amazon or UPS, the traffic is very-directional and the prices reflect that.

The key for Amazon is to be able to do it themselves cheaper and/or faster and/or more-reliably than the service offered to Amazon by other providers (who also have the directionality issue to contend with). That Amazon has now raised the number of ONT/RIV flights to/from Hawaii to 3 round-trips suggests that they are happy with the price/quality equation.

When I worked the ramp in TPA for UA we had a DC10 go HNL-DEN-TPA, we would have pallets and containers of fresh pineapples everyday on the flight which originated in HNL.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2286
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:49 pm

Clancy223 wrote:
On Thursday, Aug 20 Atlas starts two more stations... MIA-SJU-MIA on the 767 and PDX-LAL-RFD with a Southern 737.

That’s an awfully long flight PDX-LAL.

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