Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:14 am

GoodRide wrote:
Those 3 ATI 757s mentioned above are non-ETOPs, FWIW.


That's a good point. However, I wasn't thinking of them flying routes back and forth to Hawaii. I was thinking either inter-island or, as they are doing now with much of their fleet, intra-US. But as MO11 points out, it does look like the routes being flown are conus to Hawaii, so the frames I referenced obviously wouldn't do the trick.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:45 am

Political discussion is not permitted outside of the Non Aviation Forum. Political comments will be deleted.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:57 am

Speaking of JetTest, I just realized that they conceived and executed the 30 West transaction, where the planes ended up flying for Amazon.

In that deal, 30 West bought 3 retired Air New Zealand 767-300ERs and put them up for sale. Apparently, 30 West was their equity partner and JetTest conceived the deal and did the aircraft part, which is why I noticed them ferrying the aircraft from ASP to the US. The aircraft were reregistered in the US as N730WE, N830WE and N930WE. The plan was to buy and flip them to whomever wanted them, even on lease. The aircraft stayed stored for a few months, then they sold 930WE to ATSG for conversion while continuing to market the others. Eventually, ATSG acquired all 3. They are in service for Amazon: 730WE became 367AZ, 830WE became 419AZ and 930WE became 389AZ.

It's a pretty-cool little company. For the right kind of person, flying for them would have a lot of adventure and appeal. http://www.jettest.aero

And a lot of good stories. While ferrying a freighter (I think for DHL) from TLV to PSM last December, the thing lost radio over Germany and the RAF scrambled fighters to intercept it as it crossed Britain, causing sonic booms across London and Cambridge. The Daily Mail interviewed Steve Giordano later, who was PIC, and he said he almost had a heart attack looking out the window and seeing Typhoons on the wing. (By then, they were talking to British controllers, he said.) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ttack.html

Anyway, decent interview with the guy in Airways Mag last week: https://airwaysmag.com/interview/high-f ... no-photos/
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:42 am

FWIW, I was wrong about the flight in my last post being a conversion for DHL. I did a little more research, and the "German company" that bought it was some kind of investment deal; it was supposed to end up at Condor but didn't. It was being ferried to GYR, and was coming from TLV as it was an El Al plane for three years at the end of a long ownership chain. It is still at GYR, having not flown since it's "exciting" flight TLV-PSM then to GYR. N725SH. Relatively-young. Delivered June 1996, ln 619. (Seems young to me anyway considering that ABX is still flying LN 6.)
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5050
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:02 am

MO11 wrote:
MGE7200/7201 HNL-SEA-LAX-HNL

Is that the 757 in Asia Pacific colors I see parked across from me most days? I noted they have been loading freight into the bellies from UPS containers, although UPS doesn't operate their own planes into SEA.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:33 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Speaking of JetTest, I just realized that they conceived and executed the 30 West transaction, where the planes ended up flying for Amazon.

In that deal, 30 West bought 3 retired Air New Zealand 767-300ERs and put them up for sale. Apparently, 30 West was their equity partner and JetTest conceived the deal and did the aircraft part, which is why I noticed them ferrying the aircraft from ASP to the US. The aircraft were reregistered in the US as N730WE, N830WE and N930WE. The plan was to buy and flip them to whomever wanted them, even on lease. The aircraft stayed stored for a few months, then they sold 930WE to ATSG for conversion while continuing to market the others. Eventually, ATSG acquired all 3. They are in service for Amazon: 730WE became 367AZ, 830WE became 419AZ and 930WE became 389AZ.

It's a pretty-cool little company. For the right kind of person, flying for them would have a lot of adventure and appeal. http://www.jettest.aero

And a lot of good stories. While ferrying a freighter (I think for DHL) from TLV to PSM last December, the thing lost radio over Germany and the RAF scrambled fighters to intercept it as it crossed Britain, causing sonic booms across London and Cambridge. The Daily Mail interviewed Steve Giordano later, who was PIC, and he said he almost had a heart attack looking out the window and seeing Typhoons on the wing. (By then, they were talking to British controllers, he said.) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ttack.html

Anyway, decent interview with the guy in Airways Mag last week: https://airwaysmag.com/interview/high-f ... no-photos/

Steve has a really interesting Twitter account for anyone interested. Last week he was tweeting he and his team flying 5 Virgin Australia aircraft back to the US. Until the lease company made him take it down.

He gets political so be forewarned, but it’s really cool to see a side of aviation that isn’t well known.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:17 pm

HPRamper wrote:
MO11 wrote:
MGE7200/7201 HNL-SEA-LAX-HNL

Is that the 757 in Asia Pacific colors I see parked across from me most days? I noted they have been loading freight into the bellies from UPS containers, although UPS doesn't operate their own planes into SEA.


If it's on the Lagoon Drive side, that's more likely to be the Asia Pacific flight to Micronesia.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5050
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:54 pm

MO11 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
MO11 wrote:
MGE7200/7201 HNL-SEA-LAX-HNL

Is that the 757 in Asia Pacific colors I see parked across from me most days? I noted they have been loading freight into the bellies from UPS containers, although UPS doesn't operate their own planes into SEA.


If it's on the Lagoon Drive side, that's more likely to be the Asia Pacific flight to Micronesia.

I'm at SEA.
The flight comes in and does a full turn reload and leaves all in the morning hours. It is being fueled as I type this, as a matter of fact.
 
mcg
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:28 pm

Does Boeing have a sales person or sales team covering Amazon? (Isn't that a really wild sentence?, who could have imagined).
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:16 pm

mcg wrote:
Does Boeing have a sales person or sales team covering Amazon? (Isn't that a really wild sentence?, who could have imagined).


I would bet dollars to donuts that at any charitable/political event in Seattle (and elsewhere) that Jeff B. attends, there is a C-suite guy/gal from Boeing who introduces themself and tries to develop a rapport, if Jeff doesn't already know the CEO personally just from Seattle stuff. The opportunity to network is why companies pay for their C-suite members to attend all sorts of charitable events, and the charities benefit. I'm confident that they have been trying to sell new-builds for at least 5 years.

Likely given that Lauren is a helicopter pilot, there's somebody from Boeing trying to get in her orbit as well.
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:32 pm

a private Chinook maybe
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:46 pm

HPRamper wrote:
MO11 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
Is that the 757 in Asia Pacific colors I see parked across from me most days? I noted they have been loading freight into the bellies from UPS containers, although UPS doesn't operate their own planes into SEA.


If it's on the Lagoon Drive side, that's more likely to be the Asia Pacific flight to Micronesia.

I'm at SEA.
The flight comes in and does a full turn reload and leaves all in the morning hours. It is being fueled as I type this, as a matter of fact.


Then that would be the airplane. In before 6am, out around 10am.
 
User avatar
B350pilot
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:42 pm

News media reports Delta will retire all of its 767-300ER's by 2025. Wonder if they will be seen in Amazon colors next....

https://www.ajc.com/news/business/delta ... 5U6T2AK5U/
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:17 pm

B350pilot wrote:
News media reports Delta will retire all of its 767-300ER's by 2025. Wonder if they will be seen in Amazon colors next....


Well, former DL tails 1501P and 153DL already are in Amazon colors. There are quite a few Pratts powering the remaining fleet, but also quite a few GEs. While GEs are generally-preferred, both are convertible, and beggars can't be choosers. (ABX operates 3 763s with PW engines, and the A-suffixed fleet at Atlas has two Pratt-powered ships (the two spares that are not dry-leased to Amazon).)

5 years is a long time and it will be interesting to see how that works out. Same for the 717s, which I will sorry to see go. If traffic picks back up measurably, things could change. If it gets worse, retirements could come faster. People clearly WANT to travel, and I expect an explosion of travel when there is a general "all clear", but nobody knows when that will be. It has been interesting to see the evolution of thinking on in-person doings of business. When people were forced onto Zoom, Teams and such, everyone was amazed that everything (including home internet pipe) didn't melt down, and were all thinking how liberating all this was. Now, with a little more perspective, there is a lot more appreciation of what one gives up when one works solely from home, particularly with regard to development of more-junior folks. And employees' mental health. And sales -- forget about it -- in-person meetings are just essential to sales. So the demise of business travel is not upon us. But some kind of reduction may or may not be. And predicting is just a roll of the dice.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:40 pm

In many very large businesses sales and project management are led by the same person. The word I am hearing is that such persons may be doing a lot less traveling in the future, and are happy about that. They will travel - just a lot less.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:54 pm

Here's an interesting one: N569AZ is going to MEX tomorrow (9/28/20), joining N563AZ, which arrived there 5 days ago. If they are all to be worked on at the same time, that's a significant expansion of the simultaneous-processing capabilities of IAI at MexicanaMRO, assuming as we are that both are there to be converted. Up until now, they have been inducting planes one-at-a-time at MEX, i.e. one leaves and a new one arrives. Now, there are 3 aircraft there (these two for Amazon and N348AN for DHL, which should be there another month). Raises the question of what inducements Amazon gave them (either in the form of capital or of a significant volume of orders). This portends something big for the future, potentially. (Remember that Atlas went to Boeing for part of its order because, we assumed, IAI couldn't/wouldn't produce at the necessary pace.)

It's nothing to sneeze at that IAI has, in a little more than 3 weeks, taken in 4 aircraft for conversion for Amazon corporate, in 2 locations, in addition to what ATSG is sending to TLV and what DHL is sending to MEX.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4773
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:31 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Here's an interesting one: N569AZ is going to MEX tomorrow (9/28/20), joining N563AZ, which arrived there 5 days ago. If they are all to be worked on at the same time, that's a significant expansion of the simultaneous-processing capabilities of IAI at MexicanaMRO, assuming as we are that both are there to be converted. Up until now, they have been inducting planes one-at-a-time at MEX, i.e. one leaves and a new one arrives. Now, there are 3 aircraft there (these two for Amazon and N348AN for DHL, which should be there another month). Raises the question of what inducements Amazon gave them (either in the form of capital or of a significant volume of orders). This portends something big for the future, potentially. (Remember that Atlas went to Boeing for part of its order because, we assumed, IAI couldn't/wouldn't produce at the necessary pace.)

It's nothing to sneeze at that IAI has, in a little more than 3 weeks, taken in 4 aircraft for conversion for Amazon corporate, in 2 locations, in addition to what ATSG is sending to TLV and what DHL is sending to MEX.


If anything it's probably better to store the aircraft awaiting their turn at MEX rather than Florida smack dab in the middle of hurricane season.

IAI just announced a new 737 conversion line at MEX as well, so it seems like they are building capacity.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
stretch8
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:55 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:58 pm

N381AN (not N563AZ yet) B763 APW-ILN arriving Sept 27, 2020 at 1300L in basic AA colors, & nicely covered green metalwork with gray paint.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:05 pm

stretch8 wrote:
N381AN (not N563AZ yet) B763 APW-ILN arriving Sept 27, 2020 at 1300L in basic AA colors, & nicely covered green metalwork with gray paint.


I think someone on here posted that ATI was going to fly it as a spare for a while until CAM dry-leases it to Amazon, if they do. It's been flying for a few days since it left LCQ. I think LCQ-AFW-ILN-AFW, then a few days at AFW, and I guess now back to ILN.

N563AZ is a different aircraft, already reregistered to that number and in conversion in MEX. It's owned by Amazon. 381AN is owned by CAM.

PS I love your screen name!!! Welcome to the world of a.net posters!! Great first post!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:44 pm

N349CM delivered to Amerijet today. Formerly N384AA. Here's how this relates to Amazon: Amerijet (like Cargojet) is getting more and more DHL work, and word is that DHL will give them a lot more if they have the planes. ABX is currently keeping itself surprisingly-occupied with DHL because DHL gave them some good probably-temporary routes (for example, to England with 2 planes). Sadly, a lot of work given by DHL to other contractors comes at a time that they continue to pull work from ABX, so... Perhaps ABX becomes more of a contractor for Amazon if some ABX work gets shifted to Amerijet. It's all related. As Peak is approaching, ABX will likely stay busy through Peak. I'm just worried about them post-January.
 
travaz
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:50 am

Any thoughts on what Prime day October 13 and 14 will mean to the Air operation?
 
enplaned
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:36 am

travaz wrote:
Any thoughts on what Prime day October 13 and 14 will mean to the Air operation?


The purpose of Prime Day generically, is, in part, as a dry run for Peak. They want to see how much they can blow through the system. That's for Amazon generally, not just Amazon Air.

"Promise" (i.e. number of days to get something) tends to extend quite a bit due to Prime Day, so if there's anything you want to get (about to run out of toner, for example), you really want to realize that prior to Prime Day, because if you find out you need it at short notice during or just after Prime Day, you're probably not going to get it that fast.

Anywhoo... Would not be a surprise to see a bump up in utilization the including and after Prime Day. It's possible there may be some additional flights/routings - or not.

What you won't know is how full are existing flights - there may be flights that were not full before that are during/after Prime Day.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:48 am

I agree with Enplaned. Usually, of course, Prime Day comes at a generally-slower time of year.

My observation in past years is that Amazon, unlike most consolidators, has frozen the expansion of its network prior to Peak, focusing on smoothness of operation of the existing setup rather than trying to bump up right at Peak. That kind of bumping up can lead to all sorts of disruption and confusion, which they plainly wanted to avoid in the past. Perhaps this year or in the future, they may change that strategy, but if I had to bet, I would believe that they will just fill the planes as much as they can and kick the rest to other channels. I have read over and over how Amazon's computers calculate in advance to a remarkable degree of precision what to send to the Air network so that they just-fill but don't overfill the cans and the planes.
 
enplaned
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:13 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I agree with Enplaned. Usually, of course, Prime Day comes at a generally-slower time of year.

My observation in past years is that Amazon, unlike most consolidators, has frozen the expansion of its network prior to Peak, focusing on smoothness of operation of the existing setup rather than trying to bump up right at Peak. That kind of bumping up can lead to all sorts of disruption and confusion, which they plainly wanted to avoid in the past. Perhaps this year or in the future, they may change that strategy, but if I had to bet, I would believe that they will just fill the planes as much as they can and kick the rest to other channels. I have read over and over how Amazon's computers calculate in advance to a remarkable degree of precision what to send to the Air network so that they just-fill but don't overfill the cans and the planes.


Amazon for sure has the necessary info to do that - I know for a fact, however, that three years ago they did not do this. I would hope that in the intervening period they would have leveraged this, because it's a potentially huge advantage over UPS, etc.

The real advantage is in knowing, say, at the far end, how many trucks to show up with to go to sort center A, delivery station B, etc. You should be able to get there with exactly the right number, essentially all the time.

It's not that they calculate it in the sense of some kind of slick probability. It's that the minute a package goes through SLAM (receives its label, which includes, inter alia, the path that it will follow) you know how, from now through when the package is delivered, its intended route. So you know to a fairly near certainty what that package is going to do (leaving aside the issue of misrouted/lost packages or a cancelled flight). So, you know that some hours in the future, that package is coming off an aircraft in, say, ABE and it will need get to, say, a Philly-area sort center or delivery station for onward sortation/delivery. So you can add up all the packages, their size, weight, etc, that will be getting off that ABE flight and going to that Philly-area delivery station - and now you know whether it's one truck or more.

UPS can't do that, neither can Fedex.
 
danipawa
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:49 pm

Boeing 767 -338 25246 387 N569AZ Amazon Services regd 23sep20 at LCQ prior freighter conversion ex C-FOGT
Boeing 767 -338 25246 387 N589AZ Amazon Services ferried 28sep20 LCQ-MEX for freighter conversion ex C-FOGT
Boeing 767 -338 25363 402 N563AZ Amazon Services ferried 24sep20 LCQ-MEX for freighter conversion ex C-FWAD

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:54 pm

N5237A (ex B-5139) leased to Amazon yesterday.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:47 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... ring-thin/ This comes close to a wage theft problem, especially as you read the details and a deliberate lack of effort to solve the issue.

All is not well in Amazon land, and I speak as one would the home team. There is another article from the Seattle Times 'research' division on injuries.

This post may be off topic, but Amazon's strength is the integration inherent to the entire enterprise.

My pet peeve is the reluctance of Walmart and Amazon to use the word 'worker'. Team member or associate are their preferred name.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
B350pilot
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:54 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-apologizes-for-missing-driver-tips-and-pledges-to-make-payments-but-trust-is-wearing-thin/ This comes close to a wage theft problem, especially as you read the details and a deliberate lack of effort to solve the issue.

All is not well in Amazon land, and I speak as one would the home team. There is another article from the Seattle Times 'research' division on injuries.

This post may be off topic, but Amazon's strength is the integration inherent to the entire enterprise.

My pet peeve is the reluctance of Walmart and Amazon to use the word 'worker'. Team member or associate are their preferred name.


I believe most of corporate America is going that way. "Worker" is in my opinion very 1950's and more akin to assembly lines and physical labor. "The workers in the factory" etc.

today (well, all throughout history) goals and achievements are seldom the result of one, well, worker (employee). it takes a team effort.

my opinion...
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:10 pm

Agreed with B350pilot. At Disney, they call people Cast Members. Because your experience is a show. I think it's Hilton that does the same thing, because the experience they deliver is a show.

As to this kerfuffle about tips: I am entirely-willing to believe that there is some computer issue that's delaying tip payments, and they need to watch out because that's a big deal, and they need to correct it.

I am NOT willing to believe that this is something intentional by Amazon. Driver tips are peanuts in the whole scheme of things, and it sucks that they're not All Over It if they're not, but they're certainly not doing it on purpose to "save money" or something. That's what happens when you deliver for Bob's Pizzeria, not Amazon. Because Bob may well want to keep your tips. Amazon, I am confident, does not.

Also, this is the kind of stuff that people lie about in order to try to unionize people. Just sayin'.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:26 pm

Workers are workers. They have none of the power, authority, skills, or ability to influence their employer. What little power they have is to quit. When grand daughter worked there for a summer (and she enjoyed the work) a person could quit any time they wanted, and with no notification. Team member/associate is a euphemism for powerless. Back in 'union' days workers was a respected term. And 'work' was a virtue both as a verb, and worker as a noun. Now union protected pilots and police are indeed associates, and they both frequently exercise their power and authority over companies and the public. I have never been able to figure out a justifiable reason they are the exceptions.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:24 am

Interesting SY flight tonight out of BDL. SY6096 BDL-MCI. New add? Or a recovery?
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Workers are workers. They have none of the power, authority, skills, or ability to influence their employer. What little power they have is to quit. When grand daughter worked there for a summer (and she enjoyed the work) a person could quit any time they wanted, and with no notification. Team member/associate is a euphemism for powerless. Back in 'union' days workers was a respected term. And 'work' was a virtue both as a verb, and worker as a noun. Now union protected pilots and police are indeed associates, and they both frequently exercise their power and authority over companies and the public. I have never been able to figure out a justifiable reason they are the exceptions.

Because they take their work seriously.

The problem with my generation and the generation that is following is they don’t look at work the same way. Working hard isn’t a pride thing unless you can put it on Instagram. If you want the ability to walk out the door with no notice you lose some benefits.

I’ll be honest, I’ve been kind of amazed at the benefits that Amazon provides that I have seen lacking in previous employers. The Union UPS doesn’t give hourly employees vacation or benefits until they hit a year. Amazon gives them day 1. Brown you need to leave in the middle of the shift and you can be terminated for work abandonment. Not the case at Amazon.

I know there is this thinking that unions are some great gift, but I just don’t see it. They’re political organizations now more than anything.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
MO11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:17 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Interesting SY flight tonight out of BDL. SY6096 BDL-MCI. New add? Or a recovery?


It looks like broken airplane to maintenance.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:29 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Workers are workers. They have none of the power, authority, skills, or ability to influence their employer. What little power they have is to quit. When grand daughter worked there for a summer (and she enjoyed the work) a person could quit any time they wanted, and with no notification. Team member/associate is a euphemism for powerless. Back in 'union' days workers was a respected term. And 'work' was a virtue both as a verb, and worker as a noun. Now union protected pilots and police are indeed associates, and they both frequently exercise their power and authority over companies and the public. I have never been able to figure out a justifiable reason they are the exceptions.

Because they take their work seriously.

The problem with my generation and the generation that is following is they don’t look at work the same way. Working hard isn’t a pride thing unless you can put it on Instagram. If you want the ability to walk out the door with no notice you lose some benefits.

I’ll be honest, I’ve been kind of amazed at the benefits that Amazon provides that I have seen lacking in previous employers. The Union UPS doesn’t give hourly employees vacation or benefits until they hit a year. Amazon gives them day 1. Brown you need to leave in the middle of the shift and you can be terminated for work abandonment. Not the case at Amazon.

I know there is this thinking that unions are some great gift, but I just don’t see it. They’re political organizations now more than anything.

Does ALPA fit this description?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:23 pm

In my large extended family (not quite as large as Romney's- LOL) we cover from blue collar to the 1%ers. They are all workers, oops there is the odd exception. I would not hesitate to recommend any of them from working at Amazon, whether as a warehouse type worker or downtown Seattle type. We would be proud of them, and they would have earned it. Amazon is a great company. They could use a Senior Vice President of Nice. Microsoft was taken to the wood shed several years ago, and they are the better for it.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:38 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Workers are workers. They have none of the power, authority, skills, or ability to influence their employer. What little power they have is to quit. When grand daughter worked there for a summer (and she enjoyed the work) a person could quit any time they wanted, and with no notification. Team member/associate is a euphemism for powerless. Back in 'union' days workers was a respected term. And 'work' was a virtue both as a verb, and worker as a noun. Now union protected pilots and police are indeed associates, and they both frequently exercise their power and authority over companies and the public. I have never been able to figure out a justifiable reason they are the exceptions.

Because they take their work seriously.

The problem with my generation and the generation that is following is they don’t look at work the same way. Working hard isn’t a pride thing unless you can put it on Instagram. If you want the ability to walk out the door with no notice you lose some benefits.

I’ll be honest, I’ve been kind of amazed at the benefits that Amazon provides that I have seen lacking in previous employers. The Union UPS doesn’t give hourly employees vacation or benefits until they hit a year. Amazon gives them day 1. Brown you need to leave in the middle of the shift and you can be terminated for work abandonment. Not the case at Amazon.

I know there is this thinking that unions are some great gift, but I just don’t see it. They’re political organizations now more than anything.


Brown you could be making a very good living driving in a short amount of time. Amazon you can't. Brown you have to prove yourself in the trenches typically before they had you the keys. Do you want short term satisfaction or long term career?
 
enplaned
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:49 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:07 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
In my large extended family (not quite as large as Romney's- LOL) we cover from blue collar to the 1%ers. They are all workers, oops there is the odd exception. I would not hesitate to recommend any of them from working at Amazon, whether as a warehouse type worker or downtown Seattle type. We would be proud of them, and they would have earned it. Amazon is a great company. They could use a Senior Vice President of Nice. Microsoft was taken to the wood shed several years ago, and they are the better for it.


You're seeing the "nice" version of Amazon.

The following article had a big impact on how Amazon was seen both externally and internally. That did lead to substantial cultural changes within Amazon, at least for a while. The company is very much a reflection of its founder - the leadership principles, for instance, and concepts such as "always Day One" were clearly designed with trying to delay the day when the company would be infected with politics.

I have heard Amazon HR characterized as "Kommissars" (i.e. the political officers of the Soviet Red Army who were embedded with all units to ensure political reliability), which suggest that in at least some parts (Amazon is vast enough and does such a wide variety of things that it need not be the case that what is true of one part is true of the whole) politics is now rife. (Amazon groups are triumvirates - there's an operational head, a finance head and an HR head, who are characterized as the legs of the stool. The finance and HR heads do not report to the operational head - they report up through separate verticals).

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/tech ... place.html
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3501
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:23 pm

UPS Pilot wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Workers are workers. They have none of the power, authority, skills, or ability to influence their employer. What little power they have is to quit. When grand daughter worked there for a summer (and she enjoyed the work) a person could quit any time they wanted, and with no notification. Team member/associate is a euphemism for powerless. Back in 'union' days workers was a respected term. And 'work' was a virtue both as a verb, and worker as a noun. Now union protected pilots and police are indeed associates, and they both frequently exercise their power and authority over companies and the public. I have never been able to figure out a justifiable reason they are the exceptions.

Because they take their work seriously.

The problem with my generation and the generation that is following is they don’t look at work the same way. Working hard isn’t a pride thing unless you can put it on Instagram. If you want the ability to walk out the door with no notice you lose some benefits.

I’ll be honest, I’ve been kind of amazed at the benefits that Amazon provides that I have seen lacking in previous employers. The Union UPS doesn’t give hourly employees vacation or benefits until they hit a year. Amazon gives them day 1. Brown you need to leave in the middle of the shift and you can be terminated for work abandonment. Not the case at Amazon.

I know there is this thinking that unions are some great gift, but I just don’t see it. They’re political organizations now more than anything.


Brown you could be making a very good living driving in a short amount of time. Amazon you can't. Brown you have to prove yourself in the trenches typically before they had you the keys. Do you want short term satisfaction or long term career?

I started at UPS loading trailers and ended my career at the company as the District Air IE 7 years later. There was no thought to my work/life balance, there was no thought to my workload, there was no thought to anything but this is your job and your job should be your entire life. I worked 2 100 hour weeks during peak last year. The other 2 weeks I was at 90. Didn’t have a day off from Black Friday until January 5th. The last 3 months I was at brown I averaged 70 hours a week and was on call the remainder of the time. Even as my coworkers and I put in these hours they’re significantly cutting the department. You don’t have to tell me what a career is like at UPS.

I was all in on the “Brown is best” mentality until a year ago. For hourly workers there is an opportunity, but there are a lot of sacrifices that, yet again, Millenials and Gen Z aren’t willing to make. I know buildings that are struggling to get drivers while having massive sorts to pull people from. COVID changed the delivery side and the company wants to continue to operate as if the business is still what it was in 1991. That’s a problem.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:32 pm

enplaned - I think we could do a good thread on this in the non-aviation forum. It is a topic needing discussion and most on this thread seem to work at posting useful and informative things.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
autopiloton
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:14 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:24 pm

There are now two SunCountry flights (ONT-MCI, BDL-MCI) labeled as repos today. I know ATI was aware of having to cover some SunCountry flights a few days out instead of last minute. I’m assuming this was scheduled mx in MCI or something else. I’ve counted three SunCountry aircraft (N5479A, N5261A, and N7949A) that have repoed to MCI.

MO11 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Interesting SY flight tonight out of BDL. SY6096 BDL-MCI. New add? Or a recovery?


It looks like broken airplane to maintenance.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:06 am

I saw my first ever in Kitsap County Amazon van today heading south from Silverdale. So I suspect the Port of Bremerton facility is now operating.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:31 am

FIVE Amazon 738BCFs grounded?? Very interesting!

JetBlueguy22 and Autopiloton really noticed something. So, now, five of the Sun Country 738BCFs are grounded. 4 in MCI, one at PAE. So 5 have gone back immediately to ATS, who inducted them, and whatever needs to be done is being done at both its MCI and PAE facilities. It seems semi-planned.

Airplane porn details: 5261A, 7901A, 5479A, 7949A have flown to MCI, and 5693A has flown to PAE.

Missed something on conformity, maybe? POI decided he/she didn't like something? Paperwork issue or something more-significant?

So hard to believe that none of our members know what this is about. Sunking? You hearing anything?

At this point, all the Southern 738BCFs seem to be on their regular routes. (Not that Southern would have the flexibility to do a thing outside the basic network that it exclusively-serves or anything, but it doesn't appear that this issue is with any of the Amazon-dry-leased 738s that went to Southern, which of course all went through conformity at Flightstar at VQQ. They all came from GECAS, but went through conformity at a different vendor. Which is why I'm speculating about some kind of issue with the conformity process.)

PS Looks like Flightstar is doing work on the ones that are going to ASL Airlines (Amazon operator in Ireland) as well.
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:42 am

Sorry not a word. my contact is on vacation. if SY has moved 5 at one time it has to be planned before the rush.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
catdaddy63
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:27 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:01 pm

Could the 738 mass maintenance visit be related to the pickle fork issues?
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:34 pm

I don't think so. These planes came from conversion/heavy check before they went to ATS in PAE for conformity to SY flight deck standards.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
autopiloton
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:14 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:26 pm

JetTip is reporting that the SunCountry birds are having repairs to damage ahead of the MCD due to consistently being impacted by ULDs during loading. Interesting...
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:03 pm

I wonder what would happen if Southern had to look at theirs. But they generally do serve different stations.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5912
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:33 pm

Building on the previous discussion of the Kitsap AMZL Delivery Station and small towns, this reminds me, I actually wonder what are the chances of Amazon opening one in Flagstaff, Prescott, or Yuma. Of the three I would probably say Flagstaff is the most likely since I would expect there to be more demand there than the other two cities.
 
GoodRide
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:02 am

I believe the damage is related how the the k-loaders are aligning with plane. Apparently someone realized it happened once and they found a more widespread problem after the rest of the fleet aircraft were scrutinized.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9204
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:43 am

GoodRide wrote:
I believe the damage is related how the the k-loaders are aligning with plane. Apparently someone realized it happened once and they found a more widespread problem after the rest of the fleet aircraft were scrutinized.


Interesting that SCX noticed it, inspected the fleet, and is sending the broken ones for repairs. What about the Southern fleet?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos