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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 3:17 pm

sunking737 wrote:
If my math is right, 16 more 767-300 just from AA...?? Do we dare add up any from DL/UA as possible stock??


The UA stock question is a head scratcher. Not because you asked it, but because the conversion market is overwhelmingly favoring GE powered birds. UA is of course all Pratt and there are not many converted ones in service. I still think there will be a GE engine green time issue eventually, and the current heavy flying of GE powered 747 and MD-11 freighters are doing a very good job of eating up engine time. Amazon flights operating at very heavy weights also has a cost of increased engine wear and spares use.

Compounding is FX deciding to park Pratt powered MD-11s but keep operating the GE fleet. We also don’t have a clear answer on the future of the 767 at UA...

It certainly is strange times. Amazon tends to take a measured approach to their fleet and network growth and have the next few months figured out and locked down. Give them a while to move.

Wildcard out of here is SF over in China picking up some for BCF conversion as the Chinese market rebounds and they look to expand their capabilities in Asia.
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 4:19 pm

Whoops spoke too soon, looks like SF is indeed moving forward with some newer stock. From www.skyliner-aviation.de

"Boeing 767 -36N 30847 902 2- GECAS ferried 05may20 STN-BHX, G-reg canx same day, reg N233SA res 08may20, prior freighter conversion, for SF Airlines ex G-POWD"
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CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 7:33 pm

Articles are stating that WGN did indeed purchase 747-400F N497MC from Atlas Air in late April. Glad to see they are moving forward with bringing it back to serviceable condition.

Atlas also reported now flying a 777F for their own work, rather than continue to have it operate in their dry lease division. That move, has Atlas bringing back to the active fleet 4 widebodies (3 747, 1 777) in short order.
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CALMSP
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 8:32 pm

KFTG wrote:
United has retired the 767-400.


um, where is the announcement of this?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Sun May 10, 2020 10:55 pm

CALMSP wrote:
KFTG wrote:
United has retired the 767-400.


um, where is the announcement of this?


They haven't - I searched when I read that comment. Its more of a proposal/threat by UA in negotiations with employees (pilots IIRC).
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 1:19 am

Indeed, there is no "official" retirement comment for the UA 767-400s. Streamlining will more than likely take place. If we look at AA, they will be a 737/A320/777/787 airline. United could streamline in the exact same way.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 2:38 am

I don't think I mentioned this in a timely fashion, but...

N443AZ went to GUS for paint at Dean Baldwin on 5/4/20. They're removing the crazy gold design left over from Air Incheon and applying the Amazon Air livery.

This aircraft was until-very-recently N360CM, which started life as N7375A (ln 441, sn 25202, del 7/92 -- all per Planespotters.net). CAM took it from Jetran/AA and converted it in 2018, painting it in Air Incheon's unusual livery and leasing it to Air Incheon in 4/2018 as HL8319. Air Incheon returned it to CAM after a year. It sat for a couple of months, then ATSG put it on the ATI certificate and ran it as a spare and as extra lift in the last Peak. It has been planned for months to join the Amazon Air fleet around 6/1, so it seems about right for it to have gone last week to paint in GUS. We should see it out on about 5/18/20.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 5:01 am

CX747 will be happy to hear that WGN's N344KD is back in the air finally, having been at SHV since Christmas. They did a third test flight as of today, and I guess three times was a charm. It's on the way to ANC from SHV. First successful flight away from SHV in 4.5 months.

I have been looking to see if Amazon has tried another 911 PPE flight to Asia, but nothing yet.
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 6:01 pm

wjcandee wrote:
CX747 will be happy to hear that WGN's N344KD is back in the air finally, having been at SHV since Christmas. They did a third test flight as of today, and I guess three times was a charm. It's on the way to ANC from SHV. First successful flight away from SHV in 4.5 months.

I have been looking to see if Amazon has tried another 911 PPE flight to Asia, but nothing yet.


Indeed great to see her back flying across the Pacific and her old domain of Japan! Any news on when they will get their newly acquired ex-Atlas 747 back to circling the globe?

Also, slightly different question....With a new amount of 767 feed stock available, do we think Amazon could pull the trigger on some of those birds and attempt to swap out the 767-200s faster?
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 6:24 pm

CX747 wrote:

Also, slightly different question....With a new amount of 767 feed stock available, do we think Amazon could pull the trigger on some of those birds and attempt to swap out the 767-200s faster?


Check the last page. Lots of discussion on various fronts.
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 7:33 pm

Did I miss something ???...Amazon (US) is now directly employing gate assistants at its airports in Dallas, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Hebron, Kentucky, slicing away at the bottom line of partner Air Transport Services Group (US) this was in a emailed news letter today
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:01 pm

ATSG's LOGSTX originally handled all the stations, either staffing them itself or retaining another vendor, like Pinnacle Logistics, to do it. And things have moved around as various vendors either performed well or didn't.

Like the Airport Board at ABE originally did the ground handling, but they weren't crackerjack enough, so LOGSTX replaced them with Pinnacle Logistics. Recently, Amazon has brought some of that in-house, which ATSG expected and noted in its annual report. The company that got hit hardest in terms of $$ was probably Pinnacle, which directly-employed the pallet-building/can-loading and ground handling folks. All the Pinnacle employees at BWI and RFD, which Amazon took over, were offered jobs with Amazon.
 
sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 10:23 pm

Looks N545RL SCX Amazon #2 is flying from PAE direct to TPA tonight. No MSP stop for this plane. That makes 2 planes at TPA for scx amazon. N543RL #4 for SCX is in PAE as of yesterday from PVG/ANC
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jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 pm

Looks like Atlas 3713 turned right back around to MIA a little while ago. Bird strike?
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:05 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Looks like Atlas 3713 turned right back around to MIA a little while ago. Bird strike?


Probably just forgot to bring the Colombian coffee... They got underway two hours later.

(Actually, they used 663GT for the later flight, whereas the diverted aircraft was 1181A.)

They started descending before they even got to 5000 feet, less than 2 minutes into the flight, so something happened pretty fast. I'll pull the tower tapes.

Okay, so they took off no problem, got handed over to departure, checked in with departure 2000 for 5000 and was cleared to 16,000 and just in the middle of reading back Departure's instructions very-calmly said, "Giant 3713, we're actually, uh, mayday, mayday, mayday, seems we have smoke in the cockpit so we'd actually like to make a return to the field." And then that played out and they got back safely. Came around to Runway 9. Crew sounded calm. 2 SOB, 3 hours fuel, no hazmat.
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 2:40 am

Aerotranscargo is being reported as picking up not 1 but 2 747-400BCF aircraft in April, serial numbers 24458 & 24459 (both ex-Thai). The comment of trying to strike while the iron is hot has definitely caught on there.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:38 am

Those of us following the saga of 741AX, the Amerijet lease return that sat in ILN and then TPA for a total of about 2 years time before finally being leased out and sent to ROW recently, presumably for paint, will be interested to know that it looks like it's going to a Far East carrier. The ATSG 10K does say that two returned 762s were being prepped for re-lease in 2020, so I assume that that's this one and 773AX (returned from West Air in June of 2019 after spending I don't think more than a year there).

741AX is planned to be leaving ROW today to fly to HNL and then to GUM, which looks like a delivery flight to Asia. As soon as someone can get a photo in HNL and GUM, we'll know whose livery she is wearing.
 
KFTG
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 am

Regarding N773AX, did this frame fly around for DHL without a cargo door for a bit, so just belly cargo?
If you Google image search for this tail number, there are pictures from JP with it operating without a cargo door in full DHL colors.
Then, it seems to have been converted, and then the paint patched over (not a fully respray).
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 12:34 pm

KFTG wrote:
Regarding N773AX, did this frame fly around for DHL without a cargo door for a bit, so just belly cargo?
If you Google image search for this tail number, there are pictures from JP with it operating without a cargo door in full DHL colors.
Then, it seems to have been converted, and then the paint patched over (not a fully respray).


DHL(Airborne) had main deck cargo too, just loaded through the passenger door in special containers.
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CALMSP
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 1:54 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Did I miss something ???...Amazon (US) is now directly employing gate assistants at its airports in Dallas, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Hebron, Kentucky, slicing away at the bottom line of partner Air Transport Services Group (US) this was in a emailed news letter today


yes, this is the ultimate goal to have Amazon employees handling Amazon at all times. AFW, RFD, BWI, ONT, RIV, SBD insourced.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 7:48 pm

KFTG wrote:
Regarding N773AX, did this frame fly around for DHL without a cargo door for a bit, so just belly cargo?
If you Google image search for this tail number, there are pictures from JP with it operating without a cargo door in full DHL colors.
Then, it seems to have been converted, and then the paint patched over (not a fully respray).


The entire Airborne Express fleet used a variety of innovative measures to maximize operating efficiency at low capital cost. One example is the way they did W&B. A little computer (programmable calculator -- cheap) mounted on the bulkhead to enter weights as the containers came through the door. Two of them mounted hard up there in case one of them broke. No need to radio in weights as things were loaded. Just type them in, hit the button, and voila the W&B is basically done as soon as the last container is loaded. The other feature, which saved the cost of cutting a cargo door, was the C container, which fit through the L1 door in DC9s, DC8s, then 767s, etc. When DHL bought Airborne Express, that continued for some time, but the Germans hated it. (NON-STANDAHD!!!) So they started paying to cut cargo doors.

The Germans also hated the highly-manual sorting system that Airborne had used successfully for decades. So they replaced it with a whizbang fully-automated one, then changed all the routing codes and, against Airborne's advice, moved the then-parallel CVG operation to ILN -- all on the same weekend. New machine, new codes, different operating rules (e.g. W&B) between AStar and ABX Air, all initiated on a single day in ILN. The goatrope/cluster that ensued at ILN, against Joe Hete's advice, took literally months to dig out from, and destroyed on-time reliability for DHL, causing major business customers, who were Airborne's bread-and-butter, to flee in droves, causing DHL billions in losses and the shutdown of the domestic-service DHL operation.

But it resulted in a lot of cargo doors being cut in ABX aircraft.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:05 pm

wjcandee wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Regarding N773AX, did this frame fly around for DHL without a cargo door for a bit, so just belly cargo?
If you Google image search for this tail number, there are pictures from JP with it operating without a cargo door in full DHL colors.
Then, it seems to have been converted, and then the paint patched over (not a fully respray).


The entire Airborne Express fleet used a variety of innovative measures to maximize operating efficiency at low capital cost. One example is the way they did W&B. A little computer (programmable calculator -- cheap) mounted on the bulkhead to enter weights as the containers came through the door. Two of them mounted hard up there in case one of them broke. No need to radio in weights as things were loaded. Just type them in, hit the button, and voila the W&B is basically done as soon as the last container is loaded. The other feature, which saved the cost of cutting a cargo door, was the C container, which fit through the L1 door in DC9s, DC8s, then 767s, etc. When DHL bought Airborne Express, that continued for some time, but the Germans hated it. (NON-STANDAHD!!!) So they started paying to cut cargo doors.

The Germans also hated the highly-manual sorting system that Airborne had used successfully for decades. So they replaced it with a whizbang fully-automated one, then changed all the routing codes and, against Airborne's advice, moved the then-parallel CVG operation to ILN -- all on the same weekend. New machine, new codes, different operating rules (e.g. W&B) between AStar and ABX Air, all initiated on a single day in ILN. The goatrope/cluster that ensued at ILN, against Joe Hete's advice, took literally months to dig out from, and destroyed on-time reliability for DHL, causing major business customers, who were Airborne's bread-and-butter, to flee in droves, causing DHL billions in losses and the shutdown of the domestic-service DHL operation.

But it resulted in a lot of cargo doors being cut in ABX aircraft.

I'm curious if there are any pictures available of these containers and/or the loading process. I spent a good 20 minutes searching for any ABX 767-PCs being loaded, and I only found pictures from the starboard side showing the mundane process of loading LD2s in the belly. I was intrigued by the earlier discussion and your wonderful post has only made me more curious.
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:05 pm

wjcandee wrote:
The Germans also hated the highly-manual sorting system that Airborne had used successfully for decades. So they replaced it with a whizbang fully-automated one, then changed all the routing codes and, against Airborne's advice, moved the then-parallel CVG operation to ILN -- all on the same weekend. New machine, new codes, different operating rules (e.g. W&B) between AStar and ABX Air, all initiated on a single day in ILN. The goatrope/cluster that ensued at ILN, against Joe Hete's advice, took literally months to dig out from, and destroyed on-time reliability for DHL, causing major business customers, who were Airborne's bread-and-butter, to flee in droves, causing DHL billions in losses and the shutdown of the domestic-service DHL operation.

But it resulted in a lot of cargo doors being cut in ABX aircraft.


Did they also try to implement all the changes during their peak?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Here are a couple of photos showing the loading gizmo for the C-containers. Danged if I can't quickly find a photo of one.



and



I will keep looking.
 
KFTG
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:35 pm

Truly bizarre, although in light of recent events I wonder if we’ll see similar contraptions devised.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 8:54 pm

I wonder if they'll get 2nd hand 757s in the future??? I don't know, because it is commonality with the 767s they fly, and serve as middle between the 737s and 767s they fly. I don't know.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 9:22 pm

Three more 738Fs coming on line later in the year for Atlas/Southern... N5227A, N5233A, N5237A
 
sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 1:34 am

Clancy223 wrote:
Three more 738Fs coming on line later in the year for Atlas/Southern... N5227A, N5233A, N5237A


From Who?? SCX has 10 coming from GE
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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dcs921
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 11:12 am

CX747 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
CX747 will be happy to hear that WGN's N344KD is back in the air finally, having been at SHV since Christmas. They did a third test flight as of today, and I guess three times was a charm. It's on the way to ANC from SHV. First successful flight away from SHV in 4.5 months.

I have been looking to see if Amazon has tried another 911 PPE flight to Asia, but nothing yet.


Indeed great to see her back flying across the Pacific and her old domain of Japan! Any news on when they will get their newly acquired ex-Atlas 747 back to circling the globe?


I was curious about N344KD hours and cycles so I ran FAA SDR query on her and found one dated from the day of her turn back to SHV 02May20. The SDR states "AIR RETURN DUE GEAR WOULD NOT RETRACT, NUMEROUS EICAS MSGS ON MULTIPLE SYSTEMS. SEE PRINTOUT MTC.". Unfortunately SDRs don't have any attachments, I'm curious what else was going on besides the landing gear. It sounds like the pilots had their hands full on that flight.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 1:27 pm

dcs921 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
CX747 will be happy to hear that WGN's N344KD is back in the air finally, having been at SHV since Christmas. They did a third test flight as of today, and I guess three times was a charm. It's on the way to ANC from SHV. First successful flight away from SHV in 4.5 months.

I have been looking to see if Amazon has tried another 911 PPE flight to Asia, but nothing yet.


Indeed great to see her back flying across the Pacific and her old domain of Japan! Any news on when they will get their newly acquired ex-Atlas 747 back to circling the globe?


I was curious about N344KD hours and cycles so I ran FAA SDR query on her and found one dated from the day of her turn back to SHV 02May20. The SDR states "AIR RETURN DUE GEAR WOULD NOT RETRACT, NUMEROUS EICAS MSGS ON MULTIPLE SYSTEMS. SEE PRINTOUT MTC.". Unfortunately SDRs don't have any attachments, I'm curious what else was going on besides the landing gear. It sounds like the pilots had their hands full on that flight.


And the stats were, for those curious:
85157 hours, 16576 cycles. Pretty darn low.

She spent a good number of years stored between operators, so it makes sense.
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xdlx
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 1:43 pm

UA & DL are both considering to phase out the 764 ( 37 frames total ).... COULD these go thru a BCRF program.
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 2:02 pm

BCF? Maybe but you'd have to turn it on it's head:

The reports of the 764's passenger demise so far seems to be an a.net fever dream. Without a STC and a plan to convert the ENTIRE existing fleet there is absolutely no other secondary market for these, so no incentive for UA or DL to get rid of them except for scrap, and in that case hanging onto these relatively efficient low-CASM aircraft is a no brainer.

Chicken-and-egg situation here.
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 3:50 pm

For all of the chatter, here and elsewhere, about potential freighter conversions, can anyone discuss the bottleneck of the companies that are able to perform those conversions? I assume there are only a handful of companies able to do it; would they be able to produce more conversions in the near-term even if they wanted to, or are they pretty much running at capacity already?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 5:38 pm

Ottergoose: There are two 767-300 conversion houses: Boeing (767-300BCF) and IAI/Bedek (767-300BDSF). Boeing has two conversion lines: Singapore and Taiwan. The latter was the new/secondary line initially, but now seems to do more of the current conversions than Singapore. ST Aero and EGAT both have significant ability to flex up the amount of touch work, therefore the amount of conversions, they can do, so if you have the money and want the thing really-bad, they'll get it done. The limiting factor is the conversion parts kit from Boeing, who presumably can also flex up its ability to put those out, given enough notice. IAI is probably a little more limited in its ability to flex up throughput, especially given that other programs are starting to come online in a meaningful way. But it does have some: it has the second line at Mexicana MRO in MEX, which has done the Kalitta conversions, for example. It generally has done one aircraft at a time, but no reason to think that it can't do more. It's really a matter of time and the commitment by the purchaser. I think the 28 initial orders to ATSG and Atlas stretched the system a bit, and then of course it settled down again, but the aircraft were produced on a schedule that allowed the carriers to induct and staff them in an orderly way.
 
Clancy223
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 7:58 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Clancy223 wrote:
Three more 738Fs coming on line later in the year for Atlas/Southern... N5227A, N5233A, N5237A


From Who?? SCX has 10 coming from GE


GE as well. Already loaded in the system for October flying.
 
dcs921
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 10:28 pm

Spacepope wrote:
dcs921 wrote:
CX747 wrote:

Indeed great to see her back flying across the Pacific and her old domain of Japan! Any news on when they will get their newly acquired ex-Atlas 747 back to circling the globe?


I was curious about N344KD hours and cycles so I ran FAA SDR query on her and found one dated from the day of her turn back to SHV 02May20. The SDR states "AIR RETURN DUE GEAR WOULD NOT RETRACT, NUMEROUS EICAS MSGS ON MULTIPLE SYSTEMS. SEE PRINTOUT MTC.". Unfortunately SDRs don't have any attachments, I'm curious what else was going on besides the landing gear. It sounds like the pilots had their hands full on that flight.


And the stats were, for those curious:
85157 hours, 16576 cycles. Pretty darn low.

She spent a good number of years stored between operators, so it makes sense.


Thank you for posting the numbers. I completely forgot to do that. That is what I get for posting first thing in the morning.

Very low indeed. She should be gracing the skies for many years to come.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Ottergoose: There are two 767-300 conversion houses: Boeing (767-300BCF) and IAI/Bedek (767-300BDSF). Boeing has two conversion lines: Singapore and Taiwan. The latter was the new/secondary line initially, but now seems to do more of the current conversions than Singapore. ST Aero and EGAT both have significant ability to flex up the amount of touch work, therefore the amount of conversions, they can do, so if you have the money and want the thing really-bad, they'll get it done. The limiting factor is the conversion parts kit from Boeing, who presumably can also flex up its ability to put those out, given enough notice. IAI is probably a little more limited in its ability to flex up throughput, especially given that other programs are starting to come online in a meaningful way. But it does have some: it has the second line at Mexicana MRO in MEX, which has done the Kalitta conversions, for example. It generally has done one aircraft at a time, but no reason to think that it can't do more. It's really a matter of time and the commitment by the purchaser. I think the 28 initial orders to ATSG and Atlas stretched the system a bit, and then of course it settled down again, but the aircraft were produced on a schedule that allowed the carriers to induct and staff them in an orderly way.


I realized I said something that could be misinterpreted: When I said "It generally has done one aircraft at a time," I meant the MEX facility, not IAI as a whole. TLV routinely has numerous conversions in various states of conversion and the associated heavy-maintenance (which is done as long as the aircraft is all opened up). ATSG generally figures the useful life of a 767-300 can be up to 20 years from the date of the conversion and its associated heavy-maintenance-work.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 11:23 pm

Spacepope wrote:
And the stats were, for those curious:
85157 hours, 16576 cycles. Pretty darn low.

She spent a good number of years stored between operators, so it makes sense.


Am I right that the LOV on the 747-400 is currently 20,000FC? 14 CFR Sec. 121.1115. I assume that many operators must choose to include an enhanced maintenance program as a result?

I found an article from Boeing Aero magazine 4Q 2012 that has very different numbers in it, so I'm a little confused given that the rule came out in 2010. The rule on the 767 is 50K FC, which we all generally accept as the case, but the Boeing article has higher numbers for it as well.
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 12:50 am

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
And the stats were, for those curious:
85157 hours, 16576 cycles. Pretty darn low.

She spent a good number of years stored between operators, so it makes sense.


Am I right that the LOV on the 747-400 is currently 20,000FC? 14 CFR Sec. 121.1115. I assume that many operators must choose to include an enhanced maintenance program as a result?

I found an article from Boeing Aero magazine 4Q 2012 that has very different numbers in it, so I'm a little confused given that the rule came out in 2010. The rule on the 767 is 50K FC, which we all generally accept as the case, but the Boeing article has higher numbers for it as well.


That Boeing Aero article that says 165,000 hours/35,000 cycles for the 747-400. That assumes that Boeing provided LOV and engineering data to the FAA by the projected January 2015 date and operators put the new airworthiness limitations into their mx programs within 12 months (i.e. 5 years from the adoption of the rule). If that did not happen (and I doubt that to be the case), then in January 2016 (the magic 5 years), the 20,000 cycle limit would have applied, per the FAR.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 9:31 am

Well, not to spend too much time on the PPE flights, but 344KD just did an air return to ANC after coming in from China on the way to SDF. Still having teething pains. Maybe we'll see what happened in the SDRs in a while.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 10:25 am

So 344KD's issue was flaps failed to come up past 5. First communication was they were stopping the climb and going to have to turn back and do a fuel dump. The f/o was super-cheery when speaking, perhaps trying to telegraph not an emergency. They actually said no emergency just an abnormal procedure. Lots of issues with this aircraft so far since they've brought it back into service.
 
mcg
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 2:11 pm

Here is a blog post from LX relating to their cargo in passenger jets flight from China. It's been noted in this thread that for the Air Bridge program ground time in China is minimized. In the blog it is noted that the LX crews spent eight hours on the ground in China, but didn't leave the aircraft. They slept on the plane (I'd assume they simply slept in the first class lay flat seats). It's also noted that the entry procedures are 'extensive' and 'not entirely risk free'.

https://blog.swiss.com/en/2020/05/cargo-in-the-cabin/
 
Allee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 3:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Those of us following the saga of 741AX, the Amerijet lease return that sat in ILN and then TPA for a total of about 2 years time before finally being leased out and sent to ROW recently, presumably for paint, will be interested to know that it looks like it's going to a Far East carrier. The ATSG 10K does say that two returned 762s were being prepped for re-lease in 2020, so I assume that that's this one and 773AX (returned from West Air in June of 2019 after spending I don't think more than a year there).

741AX is planned to be leaving ROW today to fly to HNL and then to GUM, which looks like a delivery flight to Asia. As soon as someone can get a photo in HNL and GUM, we'll know whose livery she is wearing.


N741AX is still in ROW. Did a ROW-ROW flight yesterday
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 6:06 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So 344KD's issue was flaps failed to come up past 5. First communication was they were stopping the climb and going to have to turn back and do a fuel dump. The f/o was super-cheery when speaking, perhaps trying to telegraph not an emergency. They actually said no emergency just an abnormal procedure. Lots of issues with this aircraft so far since they've brought it back into service.


344KD had sat for a while, never great for a mechanical object to do that!!! Since Monday it had already conducted 2 full US-Hong Kong round trips.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 6:52 pm

Appreciate the lengthy and informative answer, wjcandee, thank you!

wjcandee wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Ottergoose: There are two 767-300 conversion houses: Boeing (767-300BCF) and IAI/Bedek (767-300BDSF). Boeing has two conversion lines: Singapore and Taiwan. The latter was the new/secondary line initially, but now seems to do more of the current conversions than Singapore. ST Aero and EGAT both have significant ability to flex up the amount of touch work, therefore the amount of conversions, they can do, so if you have the money and want the thing really-bad, they'll get it done. The limiting factor is the conversion parts kit from Boeing, who presumably can also flex up its ability to put those out, given enough notice. IAI is probably a little more limited in its ability to flex up throughput, especially given that other programs are starting to come online in a meaningful way. But it does have some: it has the second line at Mexicana MRO in MEX, which has done the Kalitta conversions, for example. It generally has done one aircraft at a time, but no reason to think that it can't do more. It's really a matter of time and the commitment by the purchaser. I think the 28 initial orders to ATSG and Atlas stretched the system a bit, and then of course it settled down again, but the aircraft were produced on a schedule that allowed the carriers to induct and staff them in an orderly way.


I realized I said something that could be misinterpreted: When I said "It generally has done one aircraft at a time," I meant the MEX facility, not IAI as a whole. TLV routinely has numerous conversions in various states of conversion and the associated heavy-maintenance (which is done as long as the aircraft is all opened up). ATSG generally figures the useful life of a 767-300 can be up to 20 years from the date of the conversion and its associated heavy-maintenance-work.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 6:54 pm

Clancy223 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Clancy223 wrote:
Three more 738Fs coming on line later in the year for Atlas/Southern... N5227A, N5233A, N5237A


From Who?? SCX has 10 coming from GE


GE as well. Already loaded in the system for October flying.


Flying by whom? So now 23 737s?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 7:47 pm

I think he's saying that Amazon's gonna this year take delivery of the final 5 of 20 738 conversions and, God help them, give them to Southern to fly. Weird, considering that Southern doesn't seem to be any less of a goatrope than it has been, but maybe AAWW is guaranteeing that pilots grateful to have a job will now swarm its operation and they'll have no problem staffing things.

It's a little weird because I didn't think bids came out 5 months in advance, but who knows.
 
CX747
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 8:47 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I think he's saying that Amazon's gonna this year take delivery of the final 5 of 20 738 conversions and, God help them, give them to Southern to fly. Weird, considering that Southern doesn't seem to be any less of a goatrope than it has been, but maybe AAWW is guaranteeing that pilots grateful to have a job will now swarm its operation and they'll have no problem staffing things.

It's a little weird because I didn't think bids came out 5 months in advance, but who knows.


Agree on the Southern comment. How fast things are changing, who knows. Atlas seems to be going full bore with hirings onto the 747. The recent 10% raise has strangely quieted the squeakiest of wheels on other forums. Weird turn of events, when you see guys from the major US pax airlines asking Atlas guys if Atlas hiring, if their hours are competitive and what is life like on the 74?!?!?!? Hopefully Atlas can take this opportunity and make a considerable jump in level of corporate recognition/professionalism.

Tip of my cap, to those making the change from line holder on an A320 at DL/AA/UA, to Junior FO on the 747 out of Anchorage.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 9:55 pm

We know Southern Air has 5 737-800F. They had staffing issues. Amazon hired Sun Country to fly 10 737-800F . Sy has 4 of 10 flying or soon to be flying. Can anyone confirm that Southern is getting the 5 additional ?? I have checked several sources, and can only find info for 15 737-800F 5 Southern, plus the 10 To SY.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 11:06 pm

sunking737 wrote:
We know Southern Air has 5 737-800F. They had staffing issues. Amazon hired Sun Country to fly 10 737-800F . Sy has 4 of 10 flying or soon to be flying. Can anyone confirm that Southern is getting the 5 additional ?? I have checked several sources, and can only find info for 15 737-800F 5 Southern, plus the 10 To SY.


This was all news to me. Sometimes, non-credited info on here turns out to be really-insider stuff, and sometimes it doesn't. I think we should take it as a possibility and sit back and see what happens. It isn't going to be for a while yet. Those tail #s have been reserved by Atlas since way back when it first got the contract for 738s for Amazon, so the fact that they were reserved tells us nothing about the validity of the current assertion.

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