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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:41 pm

The Europeans and Emiratis have already stated they are doing concurrent/joint certification of the 777X with the FAA so it stands to reason all three will come to a common agreement in a common timeframe and Lufthansa and Emirates will have the certifications they need to accept delivery from their respective authoritative agencies. One imagines the other airline customer's national certification agencies are at least following along, if not being actively involved themselves.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:14 pm

Revelation wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
So can this be like the production threads, discussion of the actual flight testing and status.

This endless page after page of "Certification has totally changed. The FAA isn't accepted anymore in any other country. Grandfathering is dead, really dead and the 777 will need to be certified from scratch" all based on rumor and innuendo instead of any posted news. Please start a new thread covering the debates on whose fantasy aviation agency scored the most last weekend threads.

1) I've looked at the usual sources on Twitter and elsewhere and this thread is up to date as far as any actual 777x news being reported.

2) Any change in the regulatory strategy would impact testing and production, yet I agree we have no actual news of such changes, just a lot of innuendo that by definition doesn't belong in this thread.


per 1) this thread has had excellent info coming out, and the posters are getting better a source citing and crediting. Recently an excellent blogger about PAE stopped posting as his information was constantly being picked up without any credit. I hope we continue to get such info.

per 2) information re test results can start in here, but for example the recent ultimate load test result should be in here, but then broken out into its own discussion. Similar to how the 737 facts are in a different thread than the 58 page MAX discussion.


_______

I myself expect the 777x certification to be harder now than before the MAX, as it should be. An unchanged actuator, say, could have been covered before by a simple note of it is existing and unchanged would now need to list the actuator capabilities and requirements and compare to the anticipated loadings from the new design. In other words the certification paperwork has sufficient detail that an independent review can actually be done.

In the building industry we are supposed to do peer reviews, it would be a good approach in aviation too.
 
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kanban
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:49 am

What you may be missing is the plane needs an FAA production certificate just to be built. The other certificate deals with all the other issues and is required with the Production certificate to build and delivery any aircraft. the fact no US airline is a customer does not negate the requirement. Conversely the FAA was involved in all Airbus/Aerospatiale certifications even though some models had no US customers.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:10 am

Article by Jon Ostrower (which is behind a paywall) suggests that first flight could be as early as Thursday 23rd January - (somewhat of a target date). Subject to weather and technical readiness
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:44 am

And yes, taxi test scheduled for Tuesday Afternoon (21st January)
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/12 ... 09187?s=21
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:30 am

Stitch wrote:
The Europeans and Emiratis have already stated they are doing concurrent/joint certification of the 777X with the FAA so it stands to reason all three will come to a common agreement in a common timeframe and Lufthansa and Emirates will have the certifications they need to accept delivery from their respective authoritative agencies. One imagines the other airline customer's national certification agencies are at least following along, if not being actively involved themselves.


Hasn't it always been the case?
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:15 am

Something that may prove relevant as more information comes out: the current weather forecast for Thursday is poor, although the Weather Channel's forecast is better than the National Weather Service's.

It doesn't bode well for any visibilty requirements they may have for first flight, and it won't be all that fun to stand in while watching.
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:13 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Something that may prove relevant as more information comes out: the current weather forecast for Thursday is poor, although the Weather Channel's forecast is better than the National Weather Service's.

It doesn't bode well for any visibilty requirements they may have for first flight, and it won't be all that fun to stand in while watching.


Will it be a relatively discreet first flight with just a press release after the fact?
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:18 pm

Just announced via email. It is this Thursday
 
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Faro
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:30 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Just announced via email. It is this Thursday



Best of luck! Will be watching if it's in the morning...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:27 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Just announced via email. It is this Thursday


Taxi test or flight?
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:37 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Just announced via email. It is this Thursday


Taxi test or flight?

Flight. Taxi test is today
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:50 pm

Opus99 wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Just announced via email. It is this Thursday


Taxi test or flight?

Flight. Taxi test is today

Wow! Finally! Great news! So thanks for the clarification. :-)
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:55 pm

Stitch wrote:
The Europeans and Emiratis have already stated they are doing concurrent/joint certification of the 777X with the FAA so it stands to reason all three will come to a common agreement in a common timeframe and Lufthansa and Emirates will have the certifications they need to accept delivery from their respective authoritative agencies. One imagines the other airline customer's national certification agencies are at least following along, if not being actively involved themselves.

VV wrote:
Hasn't it always been the case?


I expect there has been some consultation on certain points, but as I understand it, the FAA and EASA accepted each other's certifications generally prima facie.

I expect that going forward, a joint certification process will become the standard, out of political necessity if nothing else (now that EASA is requiring it for the 777X, the FAA will almost certainly require it for the next Airbus certification program). Frankly, I think it's a good thing that the various agencies work together on future certifications as they should hopefully serve as cross-checks for each other.
 
Miquel787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:32 pm

Wow! Finally it.s gonna fly! Can.t wait to see this beauty up in the air. Some good news for Boeing. Are they gonna do a Livestream of the first flight? Hopefully they do.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:38 pm

Are the taxi tests today ?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:45 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Are the taxi tests today ?

Yes
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:47 pm

Opus99 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Are the taxi tests today ?

Yes


What time should I start looking?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:56 pm

There will be a live webcast but not sure if just for employees or for everyone yet.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:58 pm

Hope they have a public one. It's the world's biggest twin.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:02 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Are the taxi tests today ?

Yes


What time should I start looking?

It’s scheduled for this afternoon so maybe from around 1pm PST
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:16 pm

Opus99 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Yes


What time should I start looking?

It’s scheduled for this afternoon so maybe from around 1pm PST


Brilliant, thank you!
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:34 pm

Nothing about this on Boeing.com
 
kriskarch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:48 pm

Thursday 10 AM PST - exact date and time planned for the first flight according to Dj's Aviation (reliable news) internal source.
Of course might change because of weather or other issues.

Fingers crossed!
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:02 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Nothing about this on Boeing.com

Doubt anything will be on Boeing.com till it actually happens. Seems like an employee only affair
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:14 pm

Scrap that. Boeing has just confirmed on their Instagram story that the first flight will indeed be on Thursday
 
trijetsonly
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:14 pm

A website has been setup for the first flight

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777x/first-flight
Happy Landings
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:43 pm

Stitch wrote:

I expect there has been some consultation on certain points, but as I understand it, the FAA and EASA accepted each other's certifications generally prima facie.

I expect that going forward, a joint certification process will become the standard, out of political necessity if nothing else (now that EASA is requiring it for the 777X, the FAA will almost certainly require it for the next Airbus certification program). Frankly, I think it's a good thing that the various agencies work together on future certifications as they should hopefully serve as cross-checks for each other.


Accepting each other's Certs "prima facie" was never the case. There are some differences in the regulations, 25.1309 for example, and EASA always did a pilot evaluation independent of the FAA. In recent Certs though, compliance differences for EASA/FAA Cert had been minimized.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:50 pm

kriskarch wrote:
Thursday 10 AM PST - exact date and time planned for the first flight according to Dj's Aviation (reliable news) internal source.
Of course might change because of weather or other issues.

Fingers crossed!


Weather may affect the time

I can't remember if the cause was waiting on a certain cloud ceiling height, or a technical issue, but I remember waiting for an hour or two on the 747-8 first flight.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:25 pm

I’m curious to find out how the 777x handles. Boeing aims for it to handle like the 787, is that possible with its weight?
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:01 pm

Opus99 wrote:
I’m curious to find out how the 777x handles. Boeing aims for it to handle like the 787, is that possible with its weight?


Wasn't the 787 designed to have similar handling quality as the 777?

So perhaps you are right.
 
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ER757
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:24 pm

kriskarch wrote:
Thursday 10 AM PST - exact date and time planned for the first flight according to Dj's Aviation (reliable news) internal source.
Of course might change because of weather or other issues.

Fingers crossed!


Forecast is not promising - Weather Channel says:
Rain. High 53F. Winds SSE at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 90%. Rainfall around a quarter of an inch.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:51 pm

ER757 wrote:
Forecast is not promising - Weather Channel says: Rain. High 53F. Winds SSE at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 90%. Rainfall around a quarter of an inch.


As I recall, the weather was not so hot for the 787's first flight on 15 December 2009. I think she might even have landed a bit early due to deteriorating weather conditions at BFI.
 
kriskarch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:24 pm

At least it looks it all depends on weather now and these are good news! I can wait a day or two, but I finally know this bird is ready to fly.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:28 pm

Seems to fit right in line with ever Boeing first flight weather wise.
 
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ER757
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:56 pm

Stitch wrote:
ER757 wrote:
Forecast is not promising - Weather Channel says: Rain. High 53F. Winds SSE at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 90%. Rainfall around a quarter of an inch.


As I recall, the weather was not so hot for the 787's first flight on 15 December 2009. I think she might even have landed a bit early due to deteriorating weather conditions at BFI.

Your memory serves you well. I was going to take part of the day off work and drive up to watch but thought the flight would cancel because of the bad weather. Ended up watching the live stream from my desk at the office wishing I had made the drive. Looks like I'll be doing the same for the 777X
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:57 pm

 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:26 am

EDIT taxi test canceled for today
Last edited by Spetsnaz55 on Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:28 am

Looks like taxi test has been cancelled.
 
musman9853
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:19 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Looks like taxi test has been cancelled.

Weather?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:39 am

musman9853 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Looks like taxi test has been cancelled.

Weather?

No reason given, https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/12 ... 37440?s=20
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:10 am

For those not from the Puget Sound area of the Pacific NW, from Nov 1 to mid Feb it can be damp, cloudy, dark, gray, blustery, and quite wet in the winter. Not much snow and rarely below freezing, it can rain 25 or more days in a month, then get a few weeks of the 40's without rain good enough to golf in, then back to the monsoon.

Boeing is watching the weather to ensure decent conditions as to visibility and winds.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:18 am

musman9853 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Looks like taxi test has been cancelled.

Weather?

It was a technical problem. Listening to the audio comms they had some “troubleshooting”. I don’t know what that would refer to but it seemed to do with Systems.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:58 am

Opus99 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Looks like taxi test has been cancelled.

Weather?

It was a technical problem. Listening to the audio comms they had some “troubleshooting”. I don’t know what that would refer to but it seemed to do with Systems.

Test rescheduled for Wednesday Morning
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:07 am

Opus99 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Weather?

It was a technical problem. Listening to the audio comms they had some “troubleshooting”. I don’t know what that would refer to but it seemed to do with Systems.

Test rescheduled for Wednesday Morning



Is this likely to impact first flight date ?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:53 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
It was a technical problem. Listening to the audio comms they had some “troubleshooting”. I don’t know what that would refer to but it seemed to do with Systems.

Test rescheduled for Wednesday Morning



Is this likely to impact first flight date ?

I don’t believe so. Given previous flight tests all gave taxi tests before. This one was scheduled quite late in the day anyway, so I don’t think starting this morning should take away too much from the plan
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:50 am

Don't they perform an RTO high energy between Taxi test and First Flight ?
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:20 am

It’s going to be raining in Paine field all day.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:23 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
Don't they perform an RTO high energy between Taxi test and First Flight ?

Yes, so ideally that should be happening today as well
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:09 pm

It seems Boeing schedules the first flight on 23 January 2020.
Depending on weather conditions.

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